On A Scale Of 1 To 10... How Big Of A Bonehead Move Was Pelosi's "Off The Table" Assurance ???

[WillyT]

10 being... meta-physical blunder.

1 being... a gentle speed-bump.

She took the most powerful weapon in the House's quiver, and gave it to them as an olive branch.

"How's that workin out for ya, Madame Speaker???"

She could have just kept her mouth shut on impeachment.

I give it a 10.

Aaarg!!!

:banghead:

[Rick Myers]

1. 84

Dammit! :grr:

[Cerridwen]

2. As soon as she took it off the table, poll numbers showing support

for impeachment dropped. Nice, huh?

:evilfrown:

edit: oh, and 42 - isn't the answer always 42?

[PDJane]

3. at least a 10.........

I'm thinking more like 20 or so on a scale to ten.

[zabet]

4. Off the scale....

bumping about 327 for me. :grr:

[Phredicles]

5. To quote one of the great sages of our era,

"This goes up to eleven."

[Ian David]

6. I'd say it was about equal with "Mission Accomplished" and "Last Throes." PALOMINO!!!! n/t

[peacebird]

7. 10 TIMES 10 - a complete total disaster

[bigwillq]

8. 10

I am not happy that it is "off the table" :mad:

There should have been a lot, tons more, investigations...that should've been the start...build up to it...gain evidence, gain support...the DEM Congress has failed us in that respect.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

9. 10. It makes me sick. What's wrong with our Dems????? nt

[AndyTiedye]

10. Perhaps It is "Off the Table" Because there Isn't any Table

[Karenina]

11. She has her OWN agenda

and is NOT serving the interests of those who elected her. And the fact that she felt the need to make such a pronouncement gives her a dirty dozen in my book.

[brentspeak]

21. You're an Australian citizen; you don't even vote in our elections.

So, who cares?

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WillyT]

27. I Care !!! - And Why Are You Attempting To Stifle Speech Here ???

We know you are more interested in political wins than in the constitution, as you've demonstrated over and over again!

:wtf:

[madrchsod]

41. Karenina has been here since 2001

and has 19,000+ posts. Karenina`s opinion is just as valid as anyone else`s

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kutjara]

12. Elk Steaks

I was once taught by a negotiation genius never to throw what he called "elk steaks." The metaphor refers to an apocryphal Klondike hunter who, haveing just secured an elk to his skidoo, is attacked by slavering, hungry wolves. The hunter lashes his dog team into action, but the wolves are still gaining on him. In a flash of inspiration the hunter cuts a steak off the cadaver of the elk and throws it to the pursuing wolfpack. The first three wolves fall on the steak, tearing it apart, but the rest of the pack continues in hot pursuit of the hunter, only now the wolves are much more strongly motivated by the prospect of free meat. The chase continues until, out of elk meat and with an exhausted dog team, the hunter is finally devoured by the pack.

Never ever give away elk steaks. If you're going to give something away, always make sure you get someting of at least equivalent value in return. Pelosi's no-impeachment declaration was a classic example of an elk steak.

[Wiley50]

31. If you think about it, Clinton did the same thing when they were after him

He threw them the welfare reform act of 1996

Then he threw them Telecommunication act

Then he threw them NAFTA

Still they came after him

and was impeached

but not convicted

[Kutjara]

33. Good examples.

You'd think canny political operators would know to avoid such elementary pitfalls. After all, their job is to negotiate deals, laws, treaties. The cardinal rule is you never give anything away without a quid pro quo of equal or greater value.

[Wiley50]

35. which, sadly, makes me wonder if there isn't one in this case

We don't know what anyone has been promised

or threatened with


These people are naturals at making deals one can't refuse

[Greyhound]

63. Can we change the party symbol to an elk?

We've been doing this for 40+ years, it's how we got here.
:kick: & R

[still_one]

13. Sorry, who is Pelosi? The executive branch has made her irrelevent.../nt

[Dukkha]

14. unconstitutional

to give the asshole immunity against impeachment was giving him a blank check for mayhem. to not uphold the law to pursue impeachment against a criminal is a violation of her oath of office.

[eppur_se_muova]

15. 9. Huge, but not irreversible.

Put it BACK on the table and no one gets hurt. Well, no one in Congress. Troops are another story.

[blues90]

16. a 10

I am so sick of hearing the lame reason she was next in line for president , or the other one that refers to the votes not being as high . I think most people want the war ended and bush out .

Besides she is supposed to defend the constitution . So as far as I'm concerned she blew it and has blood an her hands as well .

[Warpy]

17. TEN

Pelosi doesn't seem to realize she's going to be out of a job soon if Congress doesn't act to limit the executive's power.

It's not going to take much to convince Stupid he's got the power to dissolve Congress and be the supreme dictator he's always wanted to be.

[Babsbrain]

18. 10 for that...30 for calling * a 'lovely man'

[Desertrose]

19. 10+

or 10 squared...
DR

[brentspeak]

20. A '1'. All but ONE Democratic candidate who advocated impeachment LOST election

this past November. Only Keith Ellison, who originally didn't want to support impeachment, won election with impeachment among his platform stances.

So, it's probable that the Democrats would still be the minority party in the House had Pelosi advocated for impeachment prior to the election.

[robcon]

73. It was a 1

Impeachment was/is a loser for Democrats. Pelosi knows what she's doing.

[onenote]

74. agreed. Both Pelosi and Howard Dean knew what they were doing

Everyone seems to forget that Howard took the same position as Pelosi before the election.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/ThisWeek/story?id=1933534&page=1

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

22. I'd give it a 5. You know, it's one thing to be bold, it's another to be stupid.

Sure, she could've, should've, would've. But, she avoided doing anything stupid.

Moreover, if you will recall, correctly,...she said impeachment was off the table AT THE TIME.

Hypocritism bugs me, a LOT. Hypercriticim irritates the hell out of me.

Why can't we behave in a more liberal manner when it comes to those who certainly can NOT be characterized as an enemy to our democratic values? Why? WHY. why?

[hfojvt]

23. 3

I think at the time there was a media push saying "If you vote Democratic, then they will impeach." If the public believed that, it would have hurt us by motivating Republicans to turn out and by discouraging cross-overs - Republicans who were ticked off at Congress but not so much at Bush, at least not to the point of impeachment. As possible future speaker, she allayed those fears, which helped us in the election. However, she basically said 'we are not gonna impeach first and ask questions later, but we will investigate ...'

[rodeodance]

24. 10+

[Wiley50]

26. More of a "10" than Bo Derek if we're not talking pretty, but stupid instead n/t

[NoPasaran]

28. About 0.00875

[HughMoran]

29. 1

At the time, it was a reasonable thing to state.

She can go full out and impeach any time the outrage gets beyond what the country can stand. For now, they are using this idiot to convert hundreds of people a day to vote for Dems.

Bush is a free Democratic campaign ad that just keeps running and running and running...

[WillyT]

37. The Problem With That Theory...

is that while it is true we are gaining converts from the "middle" and the "right", we are also losing folks on the left. Hopefully not in as great a number, but I know of several staunch lifelong Democrats that have recently registered Green or Independent as a protest to the lack of fight\spine the Democrats are exhibiting.

Many here, and on other sites have also decided to withhold donations to the Democratic Party and candidates until they see some actual progress in combating the Republicans.

On Friday's Randi Rhodes show (I forget if it was John Dean, or Bruce Fein) they were talking about the Democrat's "Wuss" factor. And a caller called in worried that the Republicans might be able to turn this around in an election year jujitsu move saying something to the effect... "That if Democrats couldn't protect you (the voter) and the Constitution from the Bush Administration, then how do we trust them to protect us from Global Terrorism?"

Now that last one is a bit of a stretch, but hey... I'm seeing a whole lot of disillusioned Democrats right now, and that is NEVER a good thing.

:shrug:

[HughMoran]

44. I appreciate those arguments, though I am not that worried about losing Dems

There are just as many Dems like me who are absolutely joyful watching these anti-American nitwits twist in the wind. They are such a good advertisement for Dems - I just can't see losing this advantage and turning the morons into martyrs.

[Fovea]

30. 12

like taking a piss on an abandoned Iraqi SUV on the side of the road.

[markk]

32. 3

she can't be the one pushing to impeach Bush and Cheney when she is the one who would secede them. She shouldn't have made such a definitive statement on it, but she can't be the one leading the charge.

[madrchsod]

34. one--it`s called reality

--------there is`t enough votes to impeach and convict----------

if enough republicans decide that they should uphold the Constitution and their branch of government then impeachment and conviction is a realist outcome.

[WillyT]

42. Wow... So In Reality, The Constitution Is What... A Quaint Notion ???

I can buy there not being a Santa Claus, but too many people, some in my family, have fought and died, and are still fighting and dying, for that writ.

:evilfrown:

[madrchsod]

45. takes votes to impeach and convict...

maybe a better strategy would be to work on the republicans to change their minds than to tear our own party apart.

[WillyT]

48. I Understand, But If Our Party's Strategy Is To Just Wait This Out For The Next Year And A Half...

and if that's what the history books end up proving, then I'm pretty sure that will be the moment I look for another political party.

In THAT scenario, I'll be too ashamed to call myself a Democrat.

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

36. Pelosi gave aid and comfort to Bush -- !!!! How high is that ??? How wrong is that ???!!!

[LibDemAlways]

38. Stupidity of monumental proportions. In her position would

a repuke ever take impeachment "off the table"? Short answer: No, never, not under any circumstances.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. 100

[leftofthedial]

40. 42

[lutefisk]

43. 43...n/t

[ourvoicescount]

46. A BIG 10. Never Off The Table...

[Mark Twain Girl]

47. 10+ double plus. For the crappy "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you can succeed." n/t

[MzNov]

49. You are so so correct.

by opening her big pie hole so early after the election, she opened the door wide for the BFEE to do whatever they damn well pleased (not that they weren't doing that already). Her message seemed to be for US, the voters, to shut our collective traps about bringing up the possibility of impeaching these clowns. She could have and should have kept her mouth shut, even if she and her blue dogs knew for a certainty that there would never be impeachment procedures. But then again, how could she possibly know that so early in the game??? It's politics at its worst and politics at its best. Showing her hand like that has hurt this country in so many ways.....

:banghead: :banghead: :mad: :grr:

[Maribelle]

50. Some questions, please.

1) Wasn't it before the November 2006 election that she said it was " off the table"?

2) What would be considered "on the table"?

I closely followed the Clinton impeachment and I cannot honestly decide when it was actually "on the table" or
"off the table". Did Ken Starr's presentation to Congress put it on the table? When David Schippers took Starr's 11 counts and turned them into 15 counts put it on the table? When the House voted to investigate did that put it on the table?

[Maribelle]

53. I found the answer to question 1

Friday, May 12, 2006


Seeking to choke off a Republican rallying cry, the House's top Democrat has told colleagues that the party will not seek to impeach President Bush even if it gains control of the House in November's elections, her office said last night.

Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) told her caucus members during their weekly closed meeting Wednesday "that impeachment is off the table; she is not interested in pursuing it," spokesman Brendan Daly said.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/11/AR2006051101950.html

[JFN1]

51. The scale only goes to 10?

Bummer. Guess I'll have to settle for a 10...

[bemildred]

52. Have you EVER heard Bush or his minions say ANYTHING is off the table? nt

[Maribelle]

54. Zero - based on my post #53 - it was quite skillful and won them the election

Nancy was adroit.

[WillyT]

58. So Far... She's Clever By Half

If you haven't noticed, the polls show the Democratically led congress is rated LOWER the GWB.

And I have seen NOTHING to make me think they are gonna climb out of that hole between now and 2008.

And whining about Republican obstructionism ain't gonna do it for most voters.

"I tried, but the Republicans wouldn't let me. Waaaahhh!!! :cry:

:shrug:

[Oldenuff]

55. On a scale of 1-10?

420.

That statement really really pissed me off.

[porphyrian]

56. Initially a 7, now a 10.

Initially, she could've been bluffing and trying to rally support through reverse psychology, which is risky but sometimes very effective. Now, it's just fucking reprehensible.

[terisan]

57. She and Conyers are sophisticated pols-they are playing Good Cop/Bad Cop.

When the time is ripe, she will acquiesce to the demands of the people.

[WillyT]

60. From Your Fingers To Nancy's Forehead, LOL !!!

:hi:

[terisan]

62. Democratic women don't rise to high office by being dumb-only Repub women have that luxury. nt

[NewJeffCT]

92. I've been guessing that for a while

and trying to ignore the Pelosi bashing, even though I support impeachment.

But, I had said right after she made that comment that I thought we'd eventually get a press conference that said, "Even though I said impeachment was off the table back in November of 2006, nobody could have anticipated the amount of high crimes and misdemeanors in the executive branch our investigations would uncover. Because of the extent of this malfeasance, I am constituionally obligated to start an impeachment trial."

And, throw the Team Bush line about "nobody could have anticipated" back in their faces, too.

[MrMickeysMom]

59. Definitely 10

Yes, definitely, definitely... definitely TEN! :freak:

[CTM1978]

61. WHY DID SHE EVEN SAY THAT??? WAS SHE REALLY TELLING THE WH THAT SHE WOULD PLAY NICE???

The Dems are soo fucking spineless that they don't want to seem harsh towards the Rethugs. Don't the Dems realise that they have ove HALF THE FUCKING COUNTRY BEHIND THEM??? Hit these fuckers with ever tool they have and IMPEACH BUSH, CHENEY AND GONZALAZ!!!

[MrMickeysMom]

67. You took the words right out of my mouth...

... reminds me once again to call Pelosi's comment line. You're right, we have more than half the country behind this. I cannot for the life of me, understand why, but I'm going to call again and again...

Impeach, Indict, (high security) Imprison, (leaving the rest to nature...) :hi:

[BuyingThyme]

64. 3,636

[Greyhound]

65. 10 plus another 10 for keeping the Republiks in contention. n/t

[KAT119]

68. 1000-Nancy supports */Cheney fever for war on Iran!!

[xultar]

69. Fiengold also says military action against Iran is on the table. Don't be 2 faced.

[xultar]

70. 3

[Jack Rabbit]

71. !!

[TahitiNut]

72. 11 .... Spinal Tap (without the spine)

[JTG of the PRB]

80. Beat me to it! LOL

"This poll goes up to 11."

"Well... Why not make the highest 10, and just leave that the highest?"

"Because this one goes up to 11. It's one MORE than 10!"

[TahitiNut]

83. Phredicles (in #5) beat us both ... but it wasn't obvious in the subject line.

:silly:

[ecstatic]

75. She's not offended by Iraq...

Not a big deal, in her and her co-worker's minds.

[closeupready]

76. I don't know if anyone remembers, but she said that in response to a leading question from Leslie

Stahl, whom I love, during her interview on 60 Minuets, but it was Stahl who asked Pelosi, "So if you become the next Speaker, impeachment is off the table?" And Pelosi conceded that yes, it would be off-the-table.

[Nunyabiz]

77. 10X10

Pelosi is a disaster to the Democratic party she needs to step down.

[Catherine Vincent]

78. Did she say this before or after she was sworn in as Speaker?

[Faux pas]

79. 1 to infinity would have been a better choice....n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

81. About a 2 or a 3. It didn't actually mean anything, it was a throwaway statement, and she should

have kept her mouth shut.

But at the same time I think people need to let it go, and stop waving it around:

"off the table! off the table! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" :freak:

like it's a bloody shirt. We're all on the same team. Really.

[Jed Dilligan]

82. Haven't you heard?

She and other congressional Democrats are too busy with other Important Stuff to bother themselves with that...

:sarcasm:

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. 11

[guitar man]

85. 10

It needs to be back on the table NOW!! If it costs Pelosi and every damn Democrat in congress their political careers, so be it. It is the right thing to do. I have walked out of jobs and never looked back over ethical issues. Did it hurt me to do so? You bet. Would I do it again? you bet!

I don't expect any less from our elected representatives than I expect from myself. Admit that taking impeachment "off the table" was a damn mistake and let's get on with it!! :mad:

[dkofos]

86. 11 or should it be !!

[mdmc]

87. 10 if she loses to Cindy

1 if she can get anything decent passed by avoiding chImpeachment.

IMHO, I think the dems have underestimated American war weariness.

[The Stranger]

88. Infinitely catastrophic.

It may have ruined what was our first female Speaker.

[Yukari Yakumo]

89. 2 (nt)

[Initech]

90. It's an 11 - Spinal Tap level blunder.

:headbang: :banghead:

[KittyWampus]

91. -10

[AnExtremist]

93. tau omicron omicron omicron.

N/T