So I kinda like John Conyers and stuff.

[WilliamPitt]

I get the passion and agree with it. But he wasn't going to impeach Bush right there on the secretary's desk.

As for the arrests, hey, you walk in and sit down, you're getting arrested. That's what you showed up for. Conyers has been a great ally to a lot of us. I seem to remember the '04 election being kinda sorta wee bit of a big deal, and he was as much with us and down as anyone else was.

So I'll stick with him. After all that (and no dog on Cindy), I'm hopeful he'll stick with us for the other picayune stuff like food, air, choice, rights, jobs, wages, you know, the stuff that doesn't count.

And on the arrests one other thought. You walk into my place, sit down and refuse to leave, and it's a place of seriouis work, it's pretty much out of my hands what happens to you. No kicking, I promise, but a little tickling for sure.

Oh, and as for that Rosa Parks thing? Flights of fancy are fun, and an ego boost I've indulged in from time to time, but I have a thought. It'd be a bet, and a serious one, if one party wasn't departed.

The question would be thus: give Rosa Parks the choice to spend a day either with any one of us, or with John Conyers, who would she pick?

Give Rosa Parks the chance to do serious work and serious activism and serious legislation with any one of us, or with John Conyers, who would she pick?

The bet: I'd bet my entire left nut, half of my right, and three toes from any foot that she'd pick Conyers for the first, and run through a wall to pick him for the second.

Us? We're OK, a little high-strung sometimes, but we're real good typists. Conyers? I don't have the time to describe all the ways he has seen the elephant.

So yeah, I like John Conyers and stuff. I have this wacky thing about trying to respect friends, and especially friends and allies, even if I disagree with them on one topic.

I'll take the Rep from Michigan, thanks.

If you want to try to talk me out of it, save your fingers. I've gotten the amazing chance to spend a good deal of time with him, and most of you are screen names to me like I'm a screen name to you. No offense, but I'll take the man who has put in the work for more time than me times two has been more than a zygote.

Yeah, I'll stick with John.

:toast:

[spanone]

1. Conyers is NOT the enemy.

[WilliamPitt]

2. DINO

:)

[EFerrari]

127. Chairman.

:)

[bdamomma]

7. no the repigs are, they are standing between us and what we

want, they block everything the Dems put forward.

[rateyes]

136. What have the Repigs blocked in the House of Reps?

Nothing. They can't.

[speakclearly]

69. I particularly like

his and Rangel's approach to the draft.
http://www.blackcommentator.com/24/24_commentary.html

By reinstating a conscript army, the rich will not be able to avoid getting their sons and daughters to have to serve! Last night's debate showed that ALL OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY CANDIDATES were in favor of making conscription "gender neutral" by requiring women to register as well.

This is very progressive! This will reshape the military. By having rich people's children in the military, none of them will want their kids to go to war, so they will put pressure on the government to not illegally invade other nations!

[WilliamPitt]

74. What, you mean like negotiate and stuff?

Why do you hate America?

:)

[lame54]

134. watch this

and impeach

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tMACzBomDK4

[mmonk]

3. Pressure is the objective of activists.

Pressure works best when applied to people who you think might do something. Conyers was gung ho on doing something before the recent elections. Bottom line is he may.

[WilliamPitt]

6. Were you there?

[mmonk]

12. No.

Wish I was. I just returned from a family vacation. I have Conyer's book, "George W. Bush vs. The United States Constitution (signed). I respect him quite a bit. And yes, if I had the chance I would have been one of the protesters. It would not diminish my respect for him. I think he will do what he can.

[WilliamPitt]

14. You should

He is literally the nicest man in the world, his face is so wise and seamed but kind and he is sharp as a sharpned tack that was already sharp.

His staff is pretty kick-ass, too. Next time.

:toast:

[mmonk]

17. I agree.

:toast:

[bonito]

8. Agreed

I respect them both.

[bryant69]

4. Well Said n/t

[DFW]

5. William--that makes at least two of us (for starters)

I would never put Cindy down (some of the people she
is listening to are another story), ever, but I agree
with you completely: Conyers has been walking the walk
for decades, still is--and on our behalf.

[ClassWarrior]

9. I have respected the good Congressman for a long time...

...and the endorsements of good DUers like you who have actually worked with the man have only reinforced that sentiment.

Never Give Up, Will.

[blondeatlast]

10. With contempt citations pending, I hope to hell that the staff managed to get

their work done yesterday.

Perhaps I missed something but the timing could not have been much worse.

I'll stick with John...

[mmonk]

32. As much as people like to frame it in adversarial terms,

it's not necessarily that way. If activists want someone they think might do something, that is who they approach. It's all about using your time and effort judiciously.

[midnight]

11. I like John and Cindy. They need each other, because they

are both doing important work. I wasn't there so I can't say what I truely understand about the arrest.

[Marrah_G]

13. Nice post Will

Rep. Conyers is a good man and doesn't deserve the treatment he is getting on DU today.

[WilliamPitt]

16. You new here or something?

We always destroy the ones who help us.

It's how we can make sure we always lose, so we always are able to complain instead of, like, legislate and stuff.

:)

*fleeing*

[Marrah_G]

24. You crack me up !

Yes , yes I know. I'm just really frustrated today.

[WilliamPitt]

28. Welcome to the club

We get ulcers.

:)

[Captain Hilts]

35. Yeah, what you guys just said. Nice to see some reality-based posts. nt

[Marrah_G]

41. I think I need to skip the coffee and go with herbal tea today

You write extremely well, by the way. Do you do it professionally or is it just a hobby?

[WilliamPitt]

45. Truthout

Couple of books.

I like beer.

:)

[Marrah_G]

52. Neat

Maybe I will swing by the library on the way home.

Bleh on beer.

Mmmmmmmmm on Guiness.

[WilliamPitt]

54. Guinness isn't beer?

Did I miss a memo?

:)

[Marrah_G]

63. Noooooooooooo

Guinness is in a class all it's own!

Blasphemy!

[WilliamPitt]

66. Right. It's a food group.

I got that memo. But lost it. Can't remember where.

:)

[Oilwellian]

85. You are far too young to have memory problems

:D

[WilliamPitt]

103. You know what's odd.

I have a photographic memory. I go see a comedy show or a movie or hear a speech, and an hour later I can repeat it by rote. A friend read me thirty trivia questions one night. A week later he read the answers and I got 27 right.

The odd part is I didn't have this shit before I got into writing and politics. I was horrid at history because I couldn't get the dates, awful at Latin because of all the tenses. No meorization skills whatsoever. I died in vocab quizzes, except English, because I knew most of them already.

All the reading and writing and listening...and now I love history and can reel dates off like a digital calendar.

My friend Dan likes to get into movie quote contests with me. I always win. Drives him nuts. :)

[KoKo]

25. Sometimes one has to nudge a good friend. Sometimes the good friend

appreciates the nudge. Conyers knows about how folks need to be nudged...and protested. He's been there and walked those miles. He's asked for our support to "get those two." If we are activists we have to do this in whatever ways we can.

[WilliamPitt]

29. Shame on Conyers Shame on Conyers

That's a nudge?

Sorry, KoKo, but the man absolutely does not deserve to have insulting chants in the Rayburn halls aimed at him. You know how I feel about Cindy, but I'm a little surprised at this. I'd also say that Conyers is one of a few people who can actually say has done his fair share.

I love Cindy so much, but she can come chant his name after her face looks like the Mississippi delta like his does. That isn't all just getting old.

[Marrah_G]

43. Her people trying to beat him up with Rosa Park's ghost took the cake for me.

I'm a sad puppy today, watching left attacking left.

[WilliamPitt]

47. Yeah

I dig David Swanson (jeez, I've got all my friends fighting each other) but I threw up in my mouth a little reading that. It wasn't David, but that's his page.

Frankly, anyone who thinks he or she can speak for what Parks would say or do needs to go to bed.

Wait, I bet my nuts on what she'd do.

Hell with it. I'm right, so there.

:)

maybe back to bed anyway... :)_

[Maribelle]

22. You are so correct, Marra.

Keep up the good work!

[Divine Discontent]

159. neither do some other people who are very much against what's going on in Iraq

we really need to unite and not divide... there's millions of us across this country who are a great leader's speech away from marching at his/her beckoning. I feel it may come to grandiose events someday... there's too much of their claws over everything in this country and it's gotta end sooner or later. the PEOPLE are truly the powerful ones, we just need to influence our fellow citizens to get on these warmongers like we do, and the great Conyers obviously does. This is a great thread!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

15. One Of My Favorite Pieces From You Ever.

It actually gave me chills.

Thanks Will.

[KharmaTrain]

18. Whose Been Through Two Impeachments?

In August '74, I was a lowly board-op at the local NPR radio station. My job that summer was to engineer the network's ongoing Watergate coverage. They did wall-to-wall broadcasts of all the hearings...even did a dramatization of Nixon's tapes when they came out (with the expletive deleteds included). I sat through the entire House judiciary hearings on Nixon's impeachment. That's where I first heard of people such as Elizabeth Holtzman, Barbara Jordan, Paul Sarbanes, Charlie Rangel and John Conyers. Peter Rodino ran those hearings in a way that gave Repugnicans the shelter to break with Nixon and vote for some of the articles...thus making it a bipartisan. BTW...another congresscritter who sat on that panel...and voted to exonerate Nixon on all charges? A certain Senator Hair Helmet.

Many of us can recall the Clinton Inquisition and the valiant fight Conyers put up there in attempting to put some reason in that partisan witchhunt and it was his leadership that was a source of inspirations for Democrats during those dark days.

Also, would I be remiss to mention how the Congressman went to the wall in getting the first hearings on the Downing Street Memo...even if it was in the Capitol basement...Conyers was there.

If there's anyone who knows the laws, the Constitution and the process, it's John Conyers. He's trying to compile a case...gather the evidence necessary to get criminal articles prepared and passed out...but he needs to get solid, compelling evidence, not political charges, to go with. Another person I respect on this matter is Congressman Waxman...who was watching a lot of the crimes as they were happening and now is just starting to push to expose what he couldn't in the minority.

But, Will...I guess you, as well as I, must be defeatists and enablers...

BTW...what's your take on Inherent Contempt?

:toast:

[WilliamPitt]

26. It's another fusillade

If the I word isn't going to get it, we keep blasting away. I'm most interested in what happens with this executive privilege thing. They may just have to impeach Bush so the mail man can get in there on nudie magazine day. :)

I see Cheney in the window with a birdshot gun, a mailman coming, "You got a subpoena in there?" Mailman says, "Uh, no sir, I have Big Butt Cake magaziner for the pre"

BLAM

Mailman down, not dead but not pretty any more.

Yeah, impeach, but be sure to duck.

Ooo, did I say duc

BLAM BLAM

:)

[KharmaTrain]

57. Quick OT ???

Will you be at Yearly Kos? Hope so. It'd be a blast to have our own DU conclave.

:toast:

[WilliamPitt]

60. Is it an invite thing?

Where is it?

[LSK]

86. Chicago - next week

http://yearlykosconvention.org

[LSK]

88. see this thread please

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=150x14843

[Ninga]

19. Dear wonderful John Conyers may wish there were more Cindy's who got off their duffs and

walked into the hallowed halls of congress.

Sorry, fellas but clicking "send' is not going to get the job done.

The more people that storm Conyer's office, the more reason he has to turn around and lead the charge.

John Conyers came to Columbus Ohio to hold a hearing on the 04 election.

If the streets were filled with Cindy's Sheeheans, maybe we wouldn't be having this discussion today.

SORRY, IT IS NOT ABOUT JOHN CONYER'S ......... Believe me, he does not need any of us to watch his back or any other part of his anatomy.

He needs hundreds of thousands of people to make the job easier for him, by getting into the streets, the offices and businesses....to stop this madness.

[Maribelle]

20. Rosa Parks would have picked John Conyers

Rosa fought for the rights of people with a courage that could have gotten her killed.

It was 1955. It was Alabama. Racial segregation in the rural south was giving birth to a vile hatred and violence fostered by the KKK, and the like, that would broil for decades after Rosa would not go to the back of the bus. White supremacist blew up children in a church in the 60s in Alabama.

[bigtree]

21. so much sense

respect for friends and allies is important and good. Out of all of our national legislators, John Conyers is certainly one of the most worthy of consideration for both.

[LaurenG]

23. I agree with you that he isn't the enemy. I would like to hear

more from the democrats though about this constitutional crises and the plans to stop Bush from usurping powers not granted to him by anyone or anything.

We are left wondering what they're doing about this since so few of our congress people speak about it (that I know of anyway).

I do understand, as it is frustrating and a bit frightening.

[kpete]

27. yes

K&R

although, I have some dissappointments, I know Conyers is one of the good guys.

[Divine Discontent]

160. agreed!

we know who's on our side in DC, and one of them is this good man!

[Vinnie From Indy]

30. Amen brother!

I half expect Cindy of Nazareth to declare formally for the Congressional seat occupied by Nancy Pelosi by urinating on and extinguishing the eternal flame at JFK's grave while ranting about how the Democratic Party is responsible for AIDS, crack, The Inquisition, Katrina and Global Warming.

I will also go on record as saying that I will stand with Conyers over Sheehan any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[WilliamPitt]

33. I consider Cindy a dear friend

and would walk through fire for her...but I'm not sure I'd walk into Conyers' office for her for something like this, unless it was to haul her out, fill her with beer, and talk this through.

This just seems like crucifying Jesus for not being Christian enough. I ain't seeing it.

[Ninga]

37. As I wrote earlier, when John Conyers came to Columbus Ohio to hold hearings on the

'04 elections in Ohio, if the streets were filled with "protesters" like Cindy........we might not be hear today, debating this.

John Conyers does not need you, or anyone else writing words about how wonderful he is..........we all know that already.

He needs you, and everyone else to make his job for him........he is the good cop.......we need to be the bad.....

Get it???

Cindy does.

The only mistake she made, was not taking more people with her.

[WilliamPitt]

39. I'm really sorry

but I don't understand any of that.

I'm bad, John's bad, Cindy's good cuz she gets it, I think.

Help?

[Ninga]

50. John is not bad.......he is very, very, very good and has been his whole political career.

He needs bodies behind him.........



What I am trying to say is that John Conyers is working the very best he can, and way too hard to only maintain traction.

He needs us to take to the streets....that is all I am saying.


Why is this so darn hard to understand????

I am so frustrated....at 63......

When my kid was in a stroller I took him with me to the streets to protest the Vietnam War......and when a reporter stuck a microphone in my face.....I told him I was doing it so no other mother's child would have to die in an illegal war again.

I am so tired of crying.

[WilliamPitt]

53. Don't cry

And if you're looking for a good street-heat crew that is hiplocked with Conyers office, try these guys:

www.pdamerica.org

Phenomenal people, with an Inside/Outside approach. They basically got Boxer to stand up in '04.

[Marrah_G]

62. Let me try and explain

Due to the backlash from people who support Conyers and to try and deflect criticism off Cindy, they are now claiming that Cindy is working with Conyers and that he actually LIKES being told Rosa would be so ashamed of him she would drop dead. It's all some brilliant master plan that none of the rest of us knows, so we should just pipe down and say nothing while they tear down good congress people.

The whole damn thing is really sad.

[WilliamPitt]

67. Yeah

You're new here.

It's a Rovian plot.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!11LKSD;FMBJ

BLARG!!!WY;H,

(i pooped a little)

:)

[Marrah_G]

70. No, no, it's a GOOD plot

don't you see? Isn't it clear?

Somewhere, over the rainbow, skies are blue.................



(too bad you lost that memo, you could have used it to wipe!)

[WilliamPitt]

72. Too late

I used the cat.

But then he pooped.

It's just a mess here.

Meow.

:)

[EstimatedProphet]

107. The bad cop doesn't beat up on the good cop

The bad cop beats up on the criminals - in this case, the Republicans.

[Buzz Clik]

40. Yep. It's a point of view I share.

I'm a sidelines guy, not one of those in the trenches like you, Will. But I'm not seeing it, either.

[WilliamPitt]

55. Do you vote?

[Buzz Clik]

58. without fail...

And I try to be informed before I cast my ballot. At this point, it's the best I can do.

Tip o'the hat to those who put the sneakers to the pavement.

[WilliamPitt]

59. Tip 'o the hat, check the box,

go back to work or school like most other people do.

:toast:

[cobalt1999]

44. Cindy's whole plan was to get arrested, get some publicity, then use it to announce her campaign.

This was a pure publicity stunt.

[WilliamPitt]

56. Maybe

If so, she has to be the very first candidate in all of history to do a publicity stunt.

*koff*

[blondeatlast]

101. I just marked it down in my own playbook--what a great idea!

:rofl:

[Kajsa]

76. Vinnie, -LOL

you speak for me.

The Blame Game is getting us nowhere, fast.

In fact, we are infamous for it- "the Dems. do
nothing but complain". WE know that's BS, so
for God's sake, let's not perpetuate the myth.

" Impeachment Now" works a lot better than
"Shame on Conyers".
Conyers is NOT the enemy, and neither are us Dems.!

Jeez, pot shots are being taken at everyone it seems.

Thanks for a good chuckle with the descriptions.
;-)

:hi:

[babylonsister]

31. I can't imagine this post is meant to negate Sheehan and McGovern's

efforts (and everyone else who was there). My gripe with Conyers is that he kind of put impeachment back on the table last weekend, but as for yesterday, he wasn't talking.
I'll hang around and wait til he talks about it.

[WilliamPitt]

36. He had a mob in his office

Guess what. Good democrats are about process, especially the old timers.

That's a good thing. We trash the process and we might as well elect Bush again, because that's his MO.

As for what he was not saying, he is almost certainly thinking about getting cosigners and allies, which you need to do in the 435 seat house to go take a piss.

He said something the other day about getting three more guys. If he didn't speak, he doesn't have the guys, and good for him. What do you want him to do, conjure them from his forehead like Zeus?

Plus, and let mer just put my finger in the air and remember the time I have spent with all the people there. Mmmmm...

Yeah, there were I'd assume a lot of shouters, because too many of us like the ego boost of a good screed at a rally, and the shouters usually get picked for the important jobs in an activist/campaign setting, and they shout because they shout when they raise their hand, and they usually fuck it up because they shout. I would't say anything to a bunch of shouting people in my office either. If that sounds salty or rude, walk a mile in my shoes. You'll only have 399,999 or so to go.

None of that last para applies to Cindy or Jim. They don't shout. Much. :)

[goodhue]

34. Why the need to pick sides?

Why not stick with John Conyers, AND Cindy Sheehan, David Swanson et al?
Doesn't seem mutually exclusive to me

[WilliamPitt]

38. I am on Cindy's side.

But I didn't quite want to keep seeing one of the best people we have getting kicked around here.

I'm on both sides, disagree with both on some things, and if our best people would stop being straight-from-central-casting lib/prog/sit/shout types and work with our allies even if *gasp* there are disagreements, we might actually, like, get stuff done and stuff.

:)

[ProudDad]

147. All the best people get kicked around here

It's the favorite indoor sport at good ole' D. U.

Rah!

[LSK]

91. thats what I dont get

:shrug:

[madrchsod]

42. another voice of reason in the wilderness

seems like the last few days a lot of du`rs were ready to purge the party of every democrat that has taken a stand. it is lost on many people around here that impeachment without a conviction is a waste of valuable time. unless the enough republicans decide the Constitution is worth more than their party conviction will never happen

[Bake]

102. Didn't you get the memo? It's called "holding them accountable."

I'm not how, exactly, that is holding them accountable if you don't have the votes to convict/remove ...

It's like a mafia guy who goes to trial, beats the rap, and then declares himself bulletproof. That's what BushieBoy would do. But somehow that's "holding him accountable."

:sarcasm:

Bake

[DancingBear]

46. Of course you will

It's in your job description.

"Stay the course mates...."

Yawn.

[WilliamPitt]

49. Speaking of job descriptions

Do you have any other hobbies?

[DancingBear]

99. Many

But documenting your habitual ever changing positions on everything, as well as your dogged defense of the status quo (wrapped up in a nice progressive shawl to fool the flock) is turning out to be way more time consuming than even I thought.

Could you perhaps try and focus?

[WilliamPitt]

104. I got lotsa focus.

2008.

22 of 34 Senators.

If we get them, it will matter less which less-than-savory money candidate wins, in either party, although duh, it will amazingly mater.

Fix SCOTUS.

Do the rest. That was the goal I was thinking about in 2000.

I'm not all that sure what's wrong with shifting positions. Data changes my mind on things, and I consume data every day. This place is like a freaking stream of consciousness notepad with no inner monologue. I'll be changing my mind, working something out, writing a different opinion to firm up my own arguments (a good thing to do here, as people almost always offer good thoughts and analysis).

And if being liberal or progressive means you can't change your mind, I'll take the check please. I thought flexibility, information and the ability to reach new conclusions was kind of our strength. The day we get evangelical and absolutist on this stuff is the day we should build ourselves a megachurch, go inside, chain the door, and burn it down.

In short, dude, maybe not so much with the heavy analysis of every thing you see here. I write for a living, write a lot, did 11,000 words just last night, and I think out loud on my keyboard here quite a bit. If it bugs you, you are the master of your mouse.

[DancingBear]

100. Dupe

Delete

[Nunyabiz]

48. Conyers has been neutered

He did a good job prior to 06' but when they finally got just enough power back so that he could actually do something instead of holding meeting in a broom closet, "somebody" got to him and snipped his balls right off.

I have a feeling that Pelosi is the worst mistake that Democrats have made in many decades.

I hope Sheehan takes her seat.

[mod mom]

51. I respect both Conyers and Sheehan. I believe people are frustrated to the point

of heads exploding. I can't believe we have to continue with these criminals even another day all the time losing lives, heading deeper into a climate crisis, trashing our constitution rights, taking us deeper into debt while profiteers raid the public coffers, squander what little is left of our reputation.

Conyers WAS there for us after the '04 election theft when so many other Dems remained silent. Where were the candidates that are now asking for our support and votes? With the exception of Kucinich-absent. He and his staff have worked tiredlessly to combat the full frontal attack on our rights. I will remain in support of his work.

Cindy also has lead a fight for what many of us believe is a noble goal-END OF THIS IMMORAL WAR STARTED BY * AND HIS CRONIES. I am appalled by the despicable name calling by folks here. She FUCKING lost her son for a war that was about profitteering. She wants to prevent other families from experiencing her immense grief.

I, too, am frustrated beyond belief. I am disappointed by the Democratic leadership who I believe should have stood up to the election fraud in the first place, BUT I am not going to take it out on 2 of our most valuable leaders.

[Mojorabbit]

61. I am not happy

with the putdowns of him yesterday by those who were there. But looking on from afar, I think it is great political theater. It garners headlines and gets more people in the general population thinking about impeachment even if subconsciously. He has been around a long time and has seen much. I am sure he understands where the protesters are coming from. I can't imagine he disapproves. Kabuki.

[bluedog]

64. what bothers me is the fact

that some people do not understand.that the Democrats do not have a veto or 2/3 majority........even if every Democrat voted for impeachment....we do not have enough votes to get it through.........whats so hard to understand about that?

[WilliamPitt]

68. The argument

is that it will tie them in knots, get the trial and info data going, and corner enough GOPers on the eve of elections to get it done.

22 of 34 GOPers in the Senate have to run again. It's not the craziest idea.

[LSK]

93. last weeks all night Senate session should be a lesson that

There will not be 67 votes. PERIOD. Not this Senate.

[WilliamPitt]

113. It has to be closer to next November

You're right, it won't happen now, but the 22 of 34 GOPers who have to run will be feeling a very uncomfortable tingling sensation around their asses pretty much around this coming November, when the polls start to matter and the campaign warchests will tell them if they have the horses.

Like I say, it'll be a slog, but if we do it and either get them over or staple them to Bush, it's win win.

This is the same thinking, by the way, for the repeated Iraq timetable bills. Make them keep voting for George and death. Next November, do a sheet of all those votes with the number of dead people next to them, say like x gone since this vote and x gone since that vote, etc. Vicious and ugly, yes, but this is politics, wear a helmet, and keep imagining three very old Justices going home.

70 Senators, and in a lot of meaningful ways, it won't matter who is president. Of course it does, but 70+ changes the math even if Dennis wins.

[rjones2818]

128. Last Week's All Nighter was

a political stunt that achieved nothing. Period. Perhaps it made a few of the weak kneed feel like they were doing something strong.

I agree with the people who say we need people, lots of people, in the streets on this. There should be a line outside of Conyers' and Pelosi's office everyday. I'll be going in September.

[ProudDad]

149. It certainly ISN'T the craziest idea

Once impeachment got rolling I can see bush's numbers going into single digits, matching the average IQ of the remaining bush supporters...

[ProudDad]

148. What is 218?

It's the number of votes needed in the House to Impeach...

That's how many it is...

What is 67?

It's the number of votes needed in the Senate to Remove...

That's how many it is...


What is zero?

It's the TOTAL number of votes in the House and the Senate that were required to force nixon's resignation...


Unless you start you won't finish...

[femrap]

65. Love Conyers....

and I love Cindy....they are BOTH doing what must be done. They each have 'roles' to play. We desperately need Cindy. She is the 'Lefty' who pulls us toward the end of this war with all of its destruction and hate. We NEED people like her...she is guiding us toward a place of peace and compassion.

Conyers is playing his role...the honorable Statesman who understands why Cindy has to do what she has to do. They are allies in this effort toward finding Peace so maybe someday we can actually help the Iraqi people rebuild their infrastructure so the millions who left can return home.

I believe if the US troops would exit Iraq, maybe the people who are destroying will realize it's time to devote their time instead on building. Don't people realize that all of these young males NEED JOBS. A society can't have a bunch of young males hanging around without WORK...without goals...they just turn their energy into something destructive. Where did common sense go anyway?

[H2O Man]

71. Good essay.

I would point out that Rosa Parks in the 1950s was different from the Rosa Parks that most people today think of. But I am confident that both the young and old Rosa showed that it is possible to be friends with almost everyone.

[WilliamPitt]

73. Even bus drivers, after a fashion.

My dad was in that stuff, being from Decatur. Amazing stories.

:toast:

How's the boxer?

[mimitabby]

75. Conyers is one of my heros too

one of the VERY few

[H2O Man]

79. We'll be going

to the Andre Berto fight on Friday, in Saratoga Springs. If you have a chance, come over. If not, watch it on ESPN's Friday Night Fights.

Rosa was, of course, good friends with Martin. Yet there were periods where there were very real tensions between them. That is part of the test of true friendship. Rosa Parks appeared gentle, and she was. But she was also intense, and as tough as any person in the civil rights struggle, and that toughness could come through as stubbornness. (Even Andre Berto has nothing on her.)

We see some similar tensions and perhaps stubbornness within the democratic party today. These are times when we witness some friendships being tested, too. I like that you OP reminds us that we are all working towards the same goals, and that in the end, we are all friends.

[WilliamPitt]

105. "I'm not moving."

That would be stubborness as a strength. The Earth turned differently on its axis at that moment. Gravity changed. And I have an interesting story about that. I've never heard it repeated, which may mean it isn't commonly known. Which also means not for the board.

[Vilis Veritas]

77. So did America Die?

If it did, you were right. It was really quiet. Oh wait, I bet the hallway was not quiet.

Peace

[WilliamPitt]

109. Can't tell yet.

[Vilis Veritas]

114. Keep us posted.

I did talk with Conyers office (it is all I can do as Mr. Normal Democrat, besides voting) and gave him all my support. The lady I spoke with was receptive and we had conversation about how the Congressman feels that the focus should have been on those who are in opposition or on the fence. He only has 13 signatures, he needs more.

A protest focused properly might have done more to help his efforts.

My grandfather once said "In order to invoke change in government, you must focus on the problem not the answer."

Peace.

[havocmom]

78. Help an old woman out, but back in the day, didn't we occupy offices of OUR ENEMIES

not our friends?

I'll stick with Conyers too. If I were gonna make a fuss in an office, it would be one belonging to a Republican hyprocrite...


::havocmom totters off mumbling and shaking her cane in the air::

[Vilis Veritas]

81. You nailed it.

The wrong offices. They were in the wrong place.

Has to make you wonder...

Peace

[havocmom]

84. Yes, I do wonder.

There are people who have lost too much and done much to wake people up, but one wonders when they try to disparage allies instead of foes.

There is too much sadness for some. Perhaps there is need for more rest and reflection to better work on the problems again when thinking is more constructive.

[Vilis Veritas]

89. There is only one foe right now.

And it is not Conyers or the Democratic Party.

Peace

[byronius]

80. Great thread, Will.

I just walked out of the Lost Coast Wilderness after a week of ticks and stinging nettles and harbor seals and seal lions and the goddamned beautiful primeval Pacific -- and this nets it up for me.

I trust Conyers utterly. I love Cindy, hugged her, felt the glow. I haven't really caught up yet, at all, but I appreciate the sane words.

What in the hell is happening? I'll have to hook back in.

[Hatchling]

82. Why..

aren't they storming the offices of Republicans? Why the offices of the people most likely to help?

[PatSeg]

83. Thank you

John Conyers is one of my heroes and did not deserve the bashing he received yesterday. He is one of the least political people in Washington. Such a genuine, sincere human being is rare in politics today and we should consider ourselves fortunate to have him speaking for us. Though I agree with Cindy's message most of the time, I don't always agree with her presentation. Yesterday's demonstration may or may not have helped the cause, but I fear it may have pushed away the few votes that Conyer's was seeking.

We should not abandon our passion, but it needs to be tempered with patience and respect for the process and the individuals such as John Conyers who devote their lives to this thankless task.

[WilliamPitt]

115. "tempered with patience and respect for the process"

Oooo. You're new. ;)

Wear a helmet. That doesn't happen all that much anymore around here. People are pissed, but that's no excuse, but people are pissed, and we're all very good typists.

:)

Welcome aboard. Nice post.

[PatSeg]

142. Not so new.........

..........I've been here for a long time, but just recently became verbal. I get very "pissed" frequently and often curse at the TV. I tend to get emotional, but experience has taught me that though the emotions can be valuable motivators, they need to be controlled in order to be effective and persuasive. Otherwise people only "hear" the anger, not the message. It was a very HARD lesson to learn, however!

Meanwhile, I'm not about to bury the few heroes we have. People like John Conyers get enough abuse from the right. Let the republicans "eat their own". We need to stand by ours.

I lived through Watergate and the Vietnam War and remember vividly the thrill when we realized that the "system actually works". What we're experiencing now is far, far worse and I'm not as optimistic today. As such we cannot afford to be careless or foolish.

Thanks for the welcome!

Pat

[EmmitFitzhume]

123. Bravo Conyers

I applaud Congressman Conyers for examining another issue, a pet peeve of mine , credit card interchange fees. Conyers held a hearing on the issue in the http://www.unfaircreditcardfees.com/site/press/merchants_welcome">House Judiciary Committee last Thursday.

As I've mentioned before, I work with http://www.unfaircreditcardfees.com/">www.unfaircreditcardfees.com to promote awareness of interchange fees since the card companies are doing everything in their power to keep them as hidden as possible. The credit card interchange fee is a percentage of each transaction that Visa and MasterCard and their member banks collect from retailers every time a credit or debit card is used to pay for a purchase.

Conyers was right on in his opening statement,

"while I come into the hearing with an open mind, I do believe the burden of proof lies with the credit card companies to reassure Congress that increasing interchange fees are not harming merchants and ultimately consumers."

Given that Visa and MasterCard control 80 percent of credit card purchase volume, I would agree that they must prove that this market share isn't being abused to charge excessive interchange fees that hurt merchants and consumers alike.

[Time for change]

87. I also have a great deal of respect for John Conyers -- for all he's done, as you say

I must say that I am very bewildered by his apparent lack of enthusiasm for impeachment, and have thought about many possibilities to explain it -- as many others have:

-- Is there a master secret plan behind the apparent lack of enthusiasm for impeachment?
-- Is his purpose to sustain unity in his party (loyalty to his Party leader)?
-- Has his life been threatened?
-- Does he feel that impeachment would hurt his party?

It's a great mystery to me, and I very much hope that some day I will know the answer.

But like you said, he has done too much good for our country to turn against him. I can accept that and disagree with him at the same time.

[WilliamPitt]

110. "his apparent lack of enthusiasm for impeachment"

I can give you two reasons.

1. He can do math, and we're not there yet. I can see the wisdom of doing it anyway but doing it so well that by the time we reach the Senate, we'll get 67 like handing out candy. But that's uphill as hell, and...

2. He's not as spry as he was when Nixon went, and he remembers what that was like, and if I was his age, even if Bush slaughtering babies on the Truman balcony, and I was the Judiciary chairman, I'd still be like, "Oh fucking great. I already need a nap." It'll be his bag. For a year. He has his staff to consider, his other legislative prioprities (he might have them, ya know :) ) and basically the kind of shit pile that neither you nor I nor keyboard jockeys of any stripe knows about.

If he has made deals with other House members on serious legislation (jobs, pay, health, environment, jobs, he's from Detroit, jobs), they're going to be looking at him like, "Um, hey, are you going to be on the planet? Are you going to nuke the House for a year? Cuz if you are, I might as well retire now, because if I don't get my jobs bill passed for my district where the base closed and the plant went south, I will get beat, and you will take out lots of people like me, and you and every other chair and the party will be back having hearings in the broom closet."

To be considered.

[ProudDad]

150. Not really a good enough reason

I don't want ANY president to usurp the kind of power this shrub person has taken.

I wouldn't have wanted Clinton the First to have that much power nor do I want ObamClintWards to have that much power...

That's the point for me, just as it was in nixon-time...

It's time give the Executive Branch another bitch slap just like we did in '74 -- only this time, we shouldn't allow them to get up off the ground again...

[wndycty]

90. Always a voice of reason

:kick:

[Forkboy]

92. I'm willing to bet Conyers understands exactly why they are there...

...and he probably even likes it.But they all have their roles to play,and both sides did just that.No harm,no foul all around.

[Senator]

94. Friends Don't Let Friends Tolerate Torture...

...and stuff.

---

[Lerkfish]

95. its possible to respect three things: Conyers, cindy, and the right to peacably assemble

there is no reason I can think of to make those mutually exclusive in any way

[WilliamPitt]

108. Indeed.

Don't have much use for that Constitution thing otherwise.

I fucked up and failed to note in the OP that I am a wild and crazy Cindy fan. I wish I hadn't, because I don't want this to seem like I'm choosing up. I might have to do another OP.

[tandot]

96. Thanks, Will. K & R for John Conyers

[Jersey Devil]

97. But can Conyers walk on water?

You see, that is the problem. He isn't perfect like those who criticize him for not immediately and completely following their every demand.

[Blue_Roses]

98. Guess what...

she did work with Conyers.

"In 1957, Mrs. Parks and her husband moved to Detroit, Michigan where Mrs. Parks served on the staff of U.S. Representative John Conyers. The Southern Christian Leadership Council established an annual Rosa Parks Freedom Award in her honor."

more

http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/par0bio-1

"The bet: I'd bet my entire left nut, half of my right, and three toes from any foot that she'd pick Conyers for the first, and run through a wall to pick him for the second."

Seems you get to keep your left nut, half of your right, and the three chosen toes from the chosen feet.


;)

[WilliamPitt]

106. Boo

Yah.

*patting nuts*

Everything's cool, boys. We'll live to fight another day.

:)

[GeorgeGist]

111. I think Rosa would be disgusted

that John Conyers fears justice.

:nopity:

[Blue_Roses]

112. you know...

I think she would be more disgusted at your comment. While Rosa Parks stood for justice, she did it in a way that was productive to the civil rights movement. In the fifties (and sixties) the idea of protesting something as simple as a seat on the bus, for blacks, could mean death--the kind of death that would have them looking at the end of a noose.

No, Rosa Parks knew how to do it with tact and grace. Key words: tact and grace. That in itself won her GREAT admiration...as did Martin Luther King.

[Vilis Veritas]

117. Tact and Grace.

Beautiful words.

The high road.

Peace.

[Marrah_G]

118. Your comment is disgusting

[Raster]

116. No, I don't think Ms. Parks would have picked Conyers.

Rosa Parks knew that ACTION spoke louder than rhetoric. She put her ass, literally on the line. And just because one supports Sheehan, doesn't mean they can't also support Conyers. The plain, undisputed, fact of the matter is that more Americans now favor impeachment. Period. Why are our elected representatives not also supporting that course of action. And please, no fal-de-ra about not having the votes. This is about having integrity, and the courage to do what is right, not because you have a good chance of winning, but because it is the right thing to do.

We'll be seeing the boys on e-bay.

Wake up America!

[EFerrari]

119. I haven't seen anyone attack John Conyers here. There is one thing

that I don't understand.

Mr. Conyers has now said twice (once on Amy's show and again yesterday) that we can hold Bush/Cheney accountable at the polls.

I don't understand how he can say that after all the time he spent in Ohio -- unless it's a talking point he has been requested to use.

What do you think of this puzzle?

[mmonk]

121. We can't hold him responsible at the polls anymore.

He isn't running for office in 08.

[EFerrari]

124. Even with clean elections. Which is why this statement makes

no sense to me.

[mmonk]

125. Yep.

I like Conyers but it's all nonsense.

[BuyingThyme]

120. I pick neither.

Nor speak for Rosa Parks.

Just do what I want or I'll scream and cry and call you names.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

122. false dichotomy.

[WilliamPitt]

129. Yeah, I fucked up

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1417958&mesg_id=1420190

[Jed Dilligan]

126. I have zero respect for any politician

It's a dirty, dirty job for a bad kind of person. I refuse to let their feelings enter into my politics.

[RFKJr4PRES]

130. Conyers LIED to all of US

I don't get how anyone can defend that?

He said he would pursue impeachment if we got the Dems in office. We got the Dems in office, he then said the election was enough accountability.

When we the people said 'no it's not, Impeach him!' just four days ago he said he would if he had three more Representatives. Now yesterday he said wait for another election when Bush will be gone.

Are some at Democratic Underground experiencing cognitive dissonance?

The point of Impeachment is not whether we have the votes. As Conyers said we must vote out the enablers. He and the other good Democrats must pursue Impeachment so we can see who it is that is enabling Bush and ignoring their oath of office to defend the Constitution. Conyers has now joined the ranks of enablers, and by his own words, should be voted out of office.

[PurgedVoter]

131. You go right to the heart of it!

I will stick with John too. Actions speak louder than words.

As a paranoid liberal, I have to wonder if we are being played here. I am grateful that you remain perceptive and pass that perception on. Thanks

[jarnocan]

132. I like him BUT hope they will o for IMPEACHMENT- it wasn't that we

don't like/respect him, but we want them to do the RIGHT thing.

[Beelzebud]

133. I support John Conyers AND Cindy Sheehan. :)

I'm not one of those that disowned Conyers. In fact, as a chess player, I see this actually gaining Cindy MORE attention, and that is a GOOD thing.

[SharonRB]

135. I'm right there with you, Will

I've had a number of occasions to talk to him (I think he finally even knows my name!) and I trust him. I really believe he'll do the right thing when the time is right.

I haven't been on DU much today, so I'm not sure what's been going on, but I've been getting a lot of e-mails from the MI-Impeach group today (even after I asked to be removed from their list because I already get too much e-mail) and lots of people are pissed at Conyers.

I'm proud that the Chairman is from my state and I'm sticking by him.

[mzmolly]

137. I want a "Conyers speaks for me" pic.

Anyone? ;)

Thanks again Will.

[usregimechange]

138. Kinda what I was thinking...

[Mr Rabble]

139. Why is there a sense of divisiveness about this event?

Cindy KNEW she was going to be arrested.
Cindy KNEW Conyers was not going to impeach on the spot.


Conyers KNEW Cindy needed to be arrested to make her point.
Conyers KNEW that the impact of this incident was going to be the escalation of intensity on OUR side.

He welcomed it. He facilitated it. He knew this was the outcome long before anyone here posted anything about it.
This is going to be a move that energizes all of us, and I am thankful that it happened.

I have the utmost respect for the both of them, and this was a smart move on their part.

[pauldp]

141. I agree 100%...! nt

[Forkboy]

144. I've been trying to tell people that myself.

:banghead:

[Bryan Sacks]

140. Conyers or Ray McGovern? Conyers or Cynthia McKinney? Or Cindy Sheehan?

Good thing they can only castrate you once, William.

[sonias]

143. Conyer's has been fighting a lot longer than most of us

I'm going to stick by him too.

:applause:

Sonia

[FreepFryer]

145. Hear, hear! Good on both of ya, WilliamPitt and Rep. Conyers! (n/t)

[ProudDad]

146. I like Conyers

I like Sheehan...

They're both allies of mine...

I object to being told I have to pick one above the other...and I won't.

Go John!!!

Go Cindy!!!

Rah, Rah, Rah to both of you!!! :bounce:

[Diane R]

151. I'll stick with John, too. Thanks, Will.

[leftofthedial]

152. "food, air, choice, rights, jobs, wages, you know, the stuff that doesn't count"

If I saw them actually doing anything constructive on the "rest of their agenda," it'd be easier to buy this argument against impeachment.

But they aren't. They are playing out the clock until the 2008 elections. It's obvious. That is costing them the respect of a brutally disaffected electorate.

[LittleClarkie]

153. Well, if the Republicans weren't being childish and fillibustering EVERYTHING

so that it would look like the Dems couldn't get anything done, it would be nice.

We didn't even do that, for pete's sake. We used the filibuster, sure, the cloture votes have outnumbered the votes I've heard.

[leftofthedial]

155. the "democrats" haven't really been trying IMHO

they have been bringing very little to the floor

The House doesn't need cloture. They just need to get the repukes and DLCers on record as being pro-illegal-occupation-of-Iraq, anti-worker, anti-health-care, etc.

Trouble is, so many "democrats" are also all those things that the leadership is paralyzed, not by repuke obstructionism, but by the likely embarassing votes of their own warmongering. corporatist members.

[frogcycle]

154. well said

I applaud people getting out and making noise

Conyers was the wrong place to start


The two-faced Rep Senators who talked one way and voted the other on the amendment last week would have made more sense

I envy your knowing him personally. I can tell he not only is one of the good guys; he'd be interesting to talk/listen to. As you say, sharp as a sharpened tack

[me b zola]

156. The Indians in the Lobby

I really like and respect Conyers too. But your post made me think of The Indians in the Lobby.

[mzteris]

157. Thank you.

A voice of reason.

At least they don't call you a "cindy hater" - so hopefully SOME of them will actually listen to you.

[tomp]

158. you write a lot of great pieces.

this wasn't one of them.

[The Wizard]

161. While Cindy's actions are rooted

in the emotional distress of losing her son to the Bush cartel's illegal acts, Conyers' actions are influenced by his knowledge of how the system works and how to make it work toward moral ends. Many of Cindy's actions are on the money and shed light on the dark corners of the continuing criminal enterprise known as the Bush Administration. However, there are those times when her actions and words are aiding and abetting the Bush crime family by taking the focus off the real oversight that needs to be done.
There are those times when it's necessary to shake a fist and shout. John Conyers has been, and is, and will be on point leading the efforts to rid the world of the poison coming from the Bush/Republican jihad against civilization.
Because Cindy has been out front, and the face of war resistance, does not mean she understands the mechanisms of Washington politics. John Conyers does, and he's doing whatever he deems necessary to achieve our goals.
There's an immoral force out there calling itself the Republican Party. We must stay focused and united to ensure it finds its rightful place in History's dust bin. To reach this end and sustain civilization, we have to organize and stay on target. Listening to elders like Conyers and following their lead seems logical.
We may have thought the fascists were defeated in 1945, but we were mistaken.