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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 09:07 AM
Original message
Creative Tension
"You may well ask, ‘Why direct action? Why sit-ins, marches, etc? Isn’t negotiation a better path?’ You are exactly right in your call for negotiation. Indeed, this is the purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create a crisis and establish such creative tension that a community that has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks to so dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. I just referred to the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent resister. This may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word tension. I have earnestly worked and preached against violent tension, but there is a type of constructive nonviolent tension that is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half-truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, we must see the need of having nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men to rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood. So the purpose of the direct action is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. We, therefore, concur with you in your call for negotiation. Too long has our beloved Southland been bogged down in the tragic attempt to live in a monologue rather than a dialogue." – Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.; Letter from Birmingham City Jail

Martin Luther King, Jr., recognized the potential benefits of creative tension. He mentioned Socrates in the above quote, who applied creative tension in an individual sense. And Martin had become a student of the Gandhi school of thought, which frequently makes use of creative tension involving groups of people.

As we know from King’s letter from the Birmingham jail, the use of creative tension can be expected to cause alarm, and that alarm is frequently expressed by those who tend to share the same general goals as those who create that tension. That was true in Gandhi’s India, in King’s campaigns, and it is true today in the democratic party.

These are tense times. Our nation is facing a variety of crises that require that we rise from the bondage of the myths and half-truths, and move in a radically different direction. We must do this on the individual and the group level. It is not easy, but it is necessary. And to do so, we should be using history as a guide. I quoted from Martin’s letter, because it can help us to see how he viewed creative tension. It is important to listen closely to Martin’s words, because too often today, our society has created the "Martin mythology" that, as his friend Stanley Levison noted after King’s assassination, was creating "their plaster saint who was going to protect them from angry Negroes."

Let’s take a brief look at one example of creative tension, which might help us view recent events in democratic politics in an interesting context as we approach the 2008 elections. King’s Selma campaign was one of the most tension-filled phases of his career. The Selma campaign took place over an extended period. There is no single book or film that fully captures the significance of that chapter of our history, and I will not try to today. But I do like one sentence from Taylor Branch’s classic "At Canaan’s Edge" : "Organs of mainstream culture divided over Selma." (page 184)

One of the most interesting parts of the Selma campaign took place on February 4, 1965. Martin was in jail. The others civil rights leaders were divided on what tactics they should use. The Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee invited Minister Malcolm X to address the young demonstrators in Selma. Now, if Martin created tension, Malcolm might be said to have caused a general anxiety among almost everyone, except those students.

Andrew Young and James Bevel tugged on Malcolm’s collar before he spoke, and warned him not to "incite." Malcolm responded, "Remember this: nobody puts words in my mouth." King’s coworkers then asked his wife to speak to Malcolm. Now, Mrs. King was a gentle person, but she was actually was a bit more militant in her beliefs than her husband. She was the right person to speak to Malcolm.

Mrs. King would later say that Malcolm had assured her that he was not there to incite violence. He asked her to pass a message on to Martin, that he believed his being in Selma would make King’s movement look like a more acceptable alternative than more "angry Negroes."

Of course, today we know that there were other communications between Martin and Malcolm in 1964 and ’65. It was not a case of King being offended by Malcolm being in Selma, even if some of his coworkers were. If we look back at that incident today, we see that it involved a huge step by Malcolm: the tensions that resulted from his being kicked out of the Nation of Islam had resulted in his moving beyond the myths and half-truths of that movement, and taking a more progressive, politically mature step in the struggles of human rights.

It’s interesting to note that at the end of the Selma campaign, King would give his second – and last – speech that was carried live, in full, by network TV. (The first was during the March on Washington; both are wonderful examples of Martin dropping his scripted speech, and speaking extemporaneously.) "They told us we wouldn’t get here. And there were those who said we would get here only over their dead bodies." He spoke about the journey "through desolate valleys and across trying hill," words that I think describe today. "But all the world today knows that we are here, and we are standing before the forces of power in the State of Alabama, saying, ’We ain’t gonna let nobody turn us around’."

It was in the Selma campaign that participants expanded on the songs of the movement. "We Shall Overcome" and "Go, Tell It on the Mountain" were part of the music of the Selma march. And so were "This Land Is Your Land" and "Blowin’ in the Wind." I think that reflects some of the changes that were taking place in the movement. Those changes led to what was Martin’s most important discussion regarding creative tension. In his 1967 "A Time to Break Silence" (aka "Beyond Vietnam"), Martin said, "Every man of humane convictions must decide on that protest that best suits his convictions, but we all must protest.

"There is something seductively tempting about stopping there and sending us all off on what in some circles has become a popular crusade against the war in Vietnam. I say we must enter the struggle, but I wish to go on now to say something even more disturbing. The war in Vietnam is but a symptom of a far deeper malady within the American spirit, and if we ignore this sober reality we will find ourselves organizing clergy- and laymen-concerned committees for the next generation.They will be concerned about Guatemala and Peru. They will be concerned about Thailand and Cambodia. They will be concerned about Mozambique and South Africa. We will be marching for those and another dozen names and attending rallies without end unless there is a significant and profound change in American life and policy. Such thoughts take us beyond Vietnam, but not beyond our calling as sons of the living God."

Today we are concerned about Iraq and Iran and Afghanistan. We are concerned about an administration that, for a variety of reasons, is seeking to trample the Constitution of the United States. They work to create a revolutionary executive branch that has no respect for the balance of powers envisioned by our Founding Fathers. And sadly, they are well on their way to accomplishing their goals.

Many dedicated people, including the majority of the members of the democratic party, are organizing in an effort to oppose the administration and its coworkers. Our goals cannot be accomplished without the use of creative tension. Some of our more "moderate" friends are upset by things such as the call for an immediate US withdrawal from Iraq, or by the calls for the congress to investigate and impeach some of the individuals in the Bush administration.

I do not question their sincerity, any more than I would question that of Andy Young or James Bevel when they tried to "control" Malcolm. But like Martin said, "We ain’t gonna let nobody turn us around." We are at a point where the creative tensions might make some of us question the tactics that one group chooses, or the actions another group uses to make its point. There should be differences of opinion within the party. It’s a good thing. Yet we should all use care so that others who are not sincere – and perhaps not even democrats – use those tensions to divide us, and to create discord and separation, rather than progress. We should take advantage of the opportunity to step back at times, and not react harshly to those who disagree with the tactics that we believe to be correct. For, as Gandhi said, "Intolerance betrays want of faith in one’s cause."
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. uncreative oppression
People are not fighting back effectively in order to end this
horrendous government and reestablish the Constitution
and the rule of law.

It's a matter of will, as Al Gore would put it.

The oppression is so intense and pervasive that I suppose
it just gets too hard to deal with it. It's much easier to just
go along and stick to the comfortable addictions.

Sue
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. Most people aren't even paying attention.
That doesn't happen until the opposition starts to take action, and those in power overreact. Violently.

The challenge of making political opposition work in an imperfect democracy, as Gandhi and Dr. King would remind us, is for the opposition to remain non-violent and principled in the face of the most unprincipled displays of power. People capable of good will can be brought to understand the abuse of power when it's raw nature is unmasked.

Non-violent opposition can overcome evil, but only at great cost. There will be casualties, as both Mahatma and Martin understood. Eventually, corrupt power falls in the face of a principled opposition.


Ghandhi visiting 10 Downing Street (1931)


MLK with LBJ at the White House (1967)
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. "Intolerance betrays want of faith in one’s cause."
Indeed. We need something positive to happen to reinforce faith in the cause, because it's been too long and hope has a shelf life.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. That Malcolm Was One Smart Man
In a year the I word is being said openly, a majority of the country is now in favor of kicking the a** out of Cheney and yet our leaders tiptoe around it. Remembering that they suffered in the past for being bold, they are afraid, in this most dire time, to carry that weight.

Where there is hope is that the country and world is beginning to wake up. Analysis says it is trending progressive and a report in the Financial Times said that the world as a whole is fed up with globalization. Whatever the ultimate aims of this administration, and the paranoids within, it will crash. The problem is that in the time left. a great deal of damage can and is being done. There is no time left and the members of Congress who are trying to run the clock out are dead wrong to delay.

"Boy, you gonna carry that weight
Carry that weight a long time
Boy, you gonna carry that weight
Carry that weight a long time

I never give you my pillow
I only send you my invitation
And in the middle of the celebrations
I break down

Boy, you gonna carry that weight
Carry that weight a long time
Boy, you gonna carry that weight
Carry that weight a long time


And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love
You make"


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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
50. Yes.
Malcolm X was a good man.
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. One question...
Edited on Tue Jul-24-07 10:28 AM by saddlesore
Wouldn't it be more wise to protest in offices of the criminal repug party, than to protest in the hallway of one of the few men that have spoken out against the criminals?

In reference to the Sheehan protest yesterday...why go to Conyers? Why not go to one of the visible repukes? McCain? Lieberman (i know, i know)?

I am sincere in my question. I do not understand. Conyers is a good man with a tough job...why protest him? Because he tried?

Peace

edited to remove "attack" and replace with "protest"
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Those are valid questions.
I am not able to give an answer that could explain why Ms. Sheehan and the others took the actions they did. Like most DUers, I only know what I've read or heard on the news. There are a few friends on DU who know Ms. Sheehan, and if any of them are willing to try to explain it in a more detailed manner, that's good. But I suppose that the media coverage provides some of the answers to the questions you raise.

The only point that I differ on would be where you said Cindy attacked Rep. Conyers. Unless there is something that happened that you know of and that I do not, I think the word "attack" is not accurate. I believe that her goal was to achieve creative tension. Calling it an "attack" sounds too close too calling Martin's actions attacks on individuals.

I did call Rep. Conyers office yesterday. I spoke to a lady there about my beliefs regarding the need to have the House investigate specific concerns about the role of VP Cheney in purposely lying to this country to advance the war in Iraq, and in the Plame scandal. I believe that Cheney should be impeached.

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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. We are in agreement and I edited to remove the poor...
choice of words.

I do feel that the focus needs to be on repukes not dems. I protested in the '60's and it seemed as if we knew EXACTLY who was the bad guy. The waters are muddy and I firmly believe that it is exactly what the MSM wants.

As for media coverage, you can rest assured that had this been in McCain or Lieberman's offices, it would have made headlines and not second page. People might have been hurt, like they were in the '60's, but the message would have been delivered to the right SOURCE. IMO.

Peace.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. In the 1960s
one of the most progressive government officials, in terms of civil rights and issues involving poverty, was LBJ. Yet King applied significant pressure on him. In 1967, RFK was becoming one of the more outspoken critics of the war in Vietnam. Yet the progressive anti-war movement applied significant pressure on him. I'm not sure that there is a benefit to not applying pressure to those who are on your side in general, and are in a position to take positive actions. I am sure that there are very real advantages to applying selective pressure. By that, I do not intend to either endorse or reject what took place at Rep. Conyers' office yesterday. I am speaking about tactics in a general sense.

I would also point out that "making headlines" is not necessarily the results that many tactics aim for. Indeed, even in the context of a "media event," the goal is not always to get the biggest headline. There is a lot to be said for content.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. We can and should protest both Democratic and Republican office-holders...
I remain uncomfortable, as I think you do, with the fact that protesting only Democrats makes people think the Democrats are the problem - especially with media happy to imply that the Dems are doing badly.

Still, the Dems are most likely to be responsive to us and once they are ready to move then we can pull resistant Republicans in. When trying to move mountains we have to move the ones closest to us first, then move the distant mountains.

Peace to you, too! :hi:

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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. The waters are muddied...
Edited on Tue Jul-24-07 11:29 AM by saddlesore
for a reason. Divide and conquer. Protest King, Forbes, Sensenbrenner, etc...and this would have been front page and not second page.

Remain steadfast and protest the right and the dems win. When trying to move mountains it does no good to start with hills, you just get tired and then the mountains seem taller because you are already tired.

Peace.

edited to get names right...thanks, I know better than to just type away...without edit.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. I have to disagree. A similar sized protest wouldn't get more media
just because it was directed at Liarman or McSenator. Why should it? If anything, I think it would be treated as being less newsworthy. Man bites dog and vis-a-versa.

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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. I made a mistake and pulled two names off the top...
I should have said, King, Forbes, Sensenbrenner...etc, members of the committee that are probably not on board with his proposal.

I spoke with Conyers office and that is pretty much their take on this matter. They agreed that he is up against opposition and that perhaps, the ones that need to be protested are the ones that are in opposition.

Does he have the votes? Does he need to get 3 more names? Does he need to turn the tide? I think so.

Peace.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Conyers is the man with the power to move impeachment forward. As of now,
and for whatever reason, he refuses to use his power to do that.

Lieberman and McCain are in the Senate. They do not initiate impeachment in the Senate. If you understood how our government works, if you would read the US constitution, it would become apparent to you that the reason the 300 pro-impeachment marchers went to Conyers is because, as Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, John Conyers actually has the power to move impeachmnt forward.

Conyers has not yet attempted to move impeachment forward.
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Ok...I have read the constitution. You are childish to imply otherwise.
And that is part of the problem, you slam someone who is on your side, rather than taking the high road and lifting up, you chose to alienate me by impugning my knowledge of which you KNOW NOT A F'ING THING.

I just grabbed some names off the top of my head, high profile names. That was the point I was trying to make. Protest the other side, not the Democrats. Defeats the purpose.

Divide and Conquer.

So to make you feel better, How about protesting the republicans on the committee then, can we agree on that - Franks, King, Forbes, Sensenbrenner...?

As for Conyers not moving impeachment forward, I think you are wrong. Perhaps he needs some of the REPUKE members on the committee to agree? Does he have the votes? My guess is NO.

Perhaps, the protest would have had more impact if it were focused on the members of the committee that were opposing Conyers.

I choose to follow the advice of my grandfather, "If you want to invoke change in Government, focus on the problem, not the answer."

Peace.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. You asked why they didn't visit the offices of Senators. From your question it
was quite apparent that you don't understand where the power lies to move impeachment forward.

Now in your reply to my honest answer, it becomes apparent that your are more interested in partisan politics than you are in protecting and defending the constitution of the US.

No Repos on the committee need agree with impeachment for it to move forward. As you may be aware, the democrats hold a majority of the seats on the Judiciary Committe and can initiate impeachment without a single Repo vote.

The problem right now is the Chairman of the committee, John Conyers, who has the power to move impeachment but won't. The problem isn't the Republicans on the committee, they can't move impeachment through the committee even if they wanted to. which they don't, because they are partisan scum bags.

From your comments, I still get the impression that you don't understand how the House of Representitives work. A simple majority of the Democrats on the committee can move impeachment forward. The Repos cannot stop it, if the Dems vote to move it forward. The first thing needed is the Chairman has to schedule consideration of the bill. His refusal to do that up to this point is what's stopping action.
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. I made a mistake in haste, I tried to correct it, you ignore the correction,
and focus on Insulting me yet again. Did you read that part? You know, where I tried to correct the error I made? So rather than insulting me AGAIN, why don't you enlighten me?

He only has 13 signatures, I will assume that this means only 13 of the 22 Democrats are on board with moving forward. What you are telling me is that he does not need a majority of the entire committee, just the Democratic side, which at 13 signatures he obviously has that simple Democratic majority of which you speak, and this is why people are protesting him.

I was told by his office that he lacks enough support. I was not told on what side. I was just told that he does not have a majority yet. I was also told that they felt that the protest was targeted at the wrong persons. I can only go by what I was told. I am not a politcal scholar, just a common guy.

Thank you...here's to hoping you don't hurl another insult...a simple, "Yes, with 13 signatures he could win the day and begin the impeachment process", will suffice.

Peace.

What if 10 of those signatures are D's and 3 are repuke? Then he still needs 3, right? :shrug:
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. Conyers can perhaps be persuaded to commit himself to Impeachment
The others, well, Lieberman and most of the Rethugs can't be persuaded. They can only be overcome.

This isn't about protesting Conyers because he's bad -- he's a very good man -- it's to demonstrate that we, his friends, want him to go further.
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Right. I know that.
Edited on Tue Jul-24-07 11:44 AM by saddlesore
However, my grandfather, who did go up against big interest in the 40's and 50's always told me "In order to invoke change in the government, you must focus on the problem and not the answer."

Protest the repubs who are opposing Conyers; King, Sensenbrenner, Forbes, might have had more impact, IMO. There are only so many times you can forcibly remove protestors from your office before the negative publicity gets to you...

Peace

(my mistake of using senators was due to the haste of my writing...my apoligies.)
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. A prolonged occupation strategy against GOP offices wouldn't work
The Capitol Police wouldn't let protesters into the building. This is only happening because Conyers has signalled he doesn't want protesters kept out.

Peace.
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. He is committed.
I spoke with his office. He is very committed. He only has 13 signatures, at least that is what I was told. Perhaps, if the focus was on the hold outs, he could move forward?

:shrug:

Peace.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. Well said.
Thank you.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
5. Great post, thank you
We needed that.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
9. The protesters of today are too soft
We have led a cushy existence, for the most part. Those who have suffered the most most likely don't have a voice here because they don't have the resources to get connected.

Those of Rev. Kings era knew what suffering under the yoke of Jim Crow meant. They knew what it was like to be humiliated on a daily basis by a society they knew could not be beaten by force. Many rebellions in the past had the obvious result upon those who participated.

Those who are in power today would welcome the use of force by those oppressed. It would give them the legal tender to fulfill their vision of a totalitarian state.

The new Caesar awaits the Senate to yield.

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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
13. To Your Point
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1414740
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
42. Very good!
Thank you for linking that.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
19. They Have Crossed The Line Of What Is Sane And Logical And Have Lost Their Minds.
I don't care how many polite sounding words and Martin Luther King analogies one uses to condone their behavior. It still doesn't change the reality of what they're doing and how they're doing it. What you call creative tension, undoubtedly many consider nothing more than sheer stupidity.

They are now bullying one of the greatest representatives of congress we've ever had. There is no excuse for this bullying and irrational behavior. They think they're doing the right thing but it is due to that belief that I consider them to have lost their friggin minds.

If they just stepped back for a second and looked at the situation more objectively, they'd possibly be able to see how ridiculous they've become. They've gotten so wrapped up in their passion, their mission and their hate, that they have lost all sense of logic and reasoning in how to go about change. You and others may disagree. You're entitled. I'm entitled. But from every possible angle in which I objectively look at their behaviors, declarations, actions and strategies, it has become clearer and clearer to me that they have just quite simply lost their damn minds. And no, feeling that way has nothing to do with being a 'moderate', as you so closed mindedly claimed. I'm far to the left of moderate and I guarantee many others who now consider the group to have lost their minds are also not moderates. We just simply have retained the ability to reason and can recognize that what they're doing, though their right, is just plain counterproductive, of faulty logic, misguided premise, and flawed strategy.

I will harbor NO GUILT for declaring these things and not just being all cuddly wuddly with them as if we're all on the same side. I'm certain many others here will not either. The time has come and gone for that. We are NOT on the same side any longer. They have breached that trust and gone astray, and are no longer a group of which I desire ANY association with at all. They are nothing more than bullies, and when they start bullying John Conyers, I'm not just going to sit back and condone it. In fact, fuck that.
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. You are so right.
Edited on Tue Jul-24-07 11:53 AM by saddlesore
Even Conyers office wishes they had targeted some of the members who are on the fence. They are completely baffled. That is what I was told when I called to show support.

"Focus on the problem, not the answer." my grandfather.

Peace.

edited for clarity...
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. I doubt if Conyers sees this as bullying. This protest isn't intimidation, it isn't even angry.
Edited on Tue Jul-24-07 11:59 AM by leveymg
It's a demonstration of firm resolve and impatience with a Congressional process that is moving far too slowly to be at all effective against Bush-Cheney, who are a bunch of blood-stained thugs.

It's not a protest against Conyers. I think John and his staff, some of whom I've met, view it as a public display of grassroots support for Impeachment and at worst, as a slight nuisance.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. I agree.
As a general rule, I think that those who are saying that yesterday's events were attempts to "bully" Rep. Conyers either miss the point, or are attempts to get others to miss it. And I am fully confident that Rep. Conyers understands exactly what the point was.
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. Call them and ask. I did.
And it was made clear to me (at least by the person I spoke with) that the office thought it was focused on the wrong person. If you have met them, then you should have an inside line and you could clear this all up. Right?

Peace.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
25. I welcome ALL protests and nonviolent civil disobedience on the 'left'! ALL of it.
It's insane to indulge in effetism and demean any efforts to awaken a nation from its indolent somnolence. Insofar as my own preferences regarding tactics and approaches, I'll employ those preferences solely in selecting the actions in which I'll personally join!

I celebrate Medea Benjamin and Code Pink.
I celebrate Act Up!
I celebrate Cindy Sheehan.

I eschew inaction. I eschew non-participation. I eschew people who throw stones from the comforts of their couch in front of their boob-tube.


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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Amen!
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
32. Axiom: "Intolerance betrays want of faith in one’s cause."
Some of our more "moderate" friends are upset by things they, perhaps, do not understand, or because they may be distracted by histrionic issues. Hopefully, after introspection and reflection, they will open themselves to those words of wisdom.



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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I like it.
There might even be times where that axiom could come in handy on DU.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Thanks
I hope it is utilised. Misdirected anger (and hatred) is spreading like wildfire. :(
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. k&r. Very sensible thread, as usual.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Thank you.
Sometimes I wish that we could get about 50 DUers, and just sit around in a circle and talk.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. What would we do for entertainment, though?
Reading some of the posts and threads here always makes me laugh.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Some do
make me laugh. Others leave me shaking my head.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. True.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Couple of
each today .....
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. Today I learned that it is far, far worse to defend an activist than be part of bushco.
Bushco gets ignored but anyone defending an activist - or at least suggesting that maybe those who don't like her should just ignore her - gets accused of being a terrible, terrible person. This made me laugh.

Seeing long-time DUers jump into the fray by starting multiple threads defending the silliness just made me shake my head, though.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Yes.
I'm beginning to sense there is some uncreative tension on DU today. Happens from time to time. (grin)
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
37. Thank you as always.
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
43. Very nice reflective post
Thanks H2Oman..
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. Thanks.
I think we benefit from studying Martin's work.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
44. Thanks for such an intelligent, well-reasoned post.
It's a nice break from all of the histrionics going on today.

I wish people would focus more on the commonality of our goals and less on the difference in opinion as to how to reach that goal. The important thing is we must all do our own thing in our own way to end the war and to restore our democracy. We (DU as a whole) are wasting our energies fighting each other.

:hug:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Yeah.
Two days ago, I wrote an essay ("Ponds") here, about how it is important to step back from the intensity of the conflict sometimes, and re-charge your battery. I'm thinking about going out and watching a camp fire this evening.

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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Thank you for the beautiful photo.
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