In May, Cindy Sheehan said she was leaving the Democratic Party behind.

[madfloridian]

May 26, 2007

http://www.greencommons.org/node/581

"The Camp Casey Peace Institute is calling all citizens who are as disgusted as we are with you all to join us in Philadelphia on July 4th to try and figure a way out of this “two” party system that is bought and paid for by the war machine which has a stranglehold on every aspect of our lives. As for myself, I am leaving the Democratic Party. You have completely failed those who put you in power to change the direction our country is heading. We did not elect you to help sink our ship of state but to guide it to safe harbor."

So is she running as an independent?

Here's her announcement today, and I can't tell if she joined the party again.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/index.php?id=896

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. Yes

[madfloridian]

2. Yes, what?

?

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Did you forget the question you asked?

Yes Cindy is running as an independent. The Democratic party abandoned her as soon as they won the elections in November.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. I hope she withdraws her candidacy

after Pelosi puts impeachment back on the table.

[bluedog]

50. It's a Democratic site

....................... with one goal in mind: electoral victory

[KoKo]

64. Our Party is going to be close to splitting. You can see it here on DU and

on Kos. It's happened before. It's healthy. Rules might need to be bent eventually ...but not now. :shrug: Democrats can't be a big enough tent when there are some pretty strong divisions starting to tear us appart. It isn't just about defeating Bush anymore. It's about differing principles that brought us Bush/Cheney that need to be dealt with for the health of the Party going forward.

[madfloridian]

66. Realism is vital.

Cindy is not realistic.

She is about herself, and mocks the rest of us who deeply care.

[KoKo]

68. Can't agree about that.

I don't see any personal or financial benefit Cindy gets from what she's done. I truly believe she is doing this to make a difference in the world.

Many people who have made a difference have often been accused of being "self serving and not realistic." Gandi, MLK...so many. People wonder why someone would put themself through abuse for what seems a fantasy...so they conclude they must be "publicity seekers" or "out for their own gain."

Can remember my Dad hating Eleanor Roosevelt because he thought she was a "publicity seeker" even though he supported FDR. Any time someone mentioned Eleanor and her work for Civil Rights he would jump up and start a tirade about her.

I met Cindy and there wasn't anything artificial there. I've met politicians that I wondered if the grease on their hands would wash off after a handshake and if their plastered smiles were taken off before they went to bed. Cindy is not that.

[madfloridian]

71. There are many views on that topic.

.

[Nunyabiz]

77. actually there are 2 views one right one wrong

Koko's is right.
Sheehan is NOT in it for herself at all she is trying to make a difference and she has, far more than everyone on this site all combined. She has had it with the Democrats because they lied to those that put them there.
Pelosi took Impeachment off the table DAY ONE which was a total slap in the face to every democrat voter.

[Le Taz Hot]

74. Discussion about Cindy Sheehan and

her activities is not verbotten. We just can't promote her candidacy. Having said that, one does NOT have to be a Democrat to post on this board.

[dollie300]

46. People really need to get a grip and understand why impeachment is NOT possible NOW!!

It takes 60 votes. 60 votes that this Congress does not have. It would really shoot the whole wad to go for impeachment now and have it slapped down right away.

[jmowreader]

65. It takes 67 votes, not 60

It takes a "supermajority" of 60 to fix some of Shrub's worst mistakes.

It takes a full two-thirds majority to fix the Supreme Court's worst mistake. We can get the 67 votes IF we can find 18 or 19 extremely attractive Democrats to run against some of the Republicans who are up for election in 2008 if they don't vote to convict. They might love Bush, but I think they love their seats more.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. I think the democratic party left her.

In fact, I think they pretty much stabbed the peace movement in the back.

[madfloridian]

5. Is she running as an independent?

Just asking.

[speakclearly]

78. Yes! n/t

[Breeze54]

6. Well said.

"the democratic party left her."

And you and I. :(

[madfloridian]

7. So have the rules changed at DU?

?

[EFerrari]

8. No, there are still rules against flame bait. n/t

[madfloridian]

12. You consider this flamebait? After treating Conyers so badly?

After David Swanson called him a coward.

My friend this is not flamebait. I have nothing agsinst Cindy, but I am realistic.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

15. Conyers "blew smoke up Cindy's ass"? Wow...not nice.

I always thought he was a good guy.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. Yeah, well.

He's a politician.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. I used to believe that too

I know better now.

[KingFlorez]

17. He gave her a realistic answer

She just got angry because she didn't get the answer she wanted.

[Buzz Clik]

21. Exactly. And now the petulance begins in earnest.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. No, he didn't.

He gave her bullshit.

[EFerrari]

19. What does Conyers have to do with DU rules?

And, why don't you simply go read them or ask a mod?

[madfloridian]

72. The mods and admins have been asked....

I am sure they will have something to say when they are ready.

Cindy just actually declared yesterday for sure.

[EFerrari]

76. Skinner has a thread up, which I hope will help everyone settle down. nt

[bluedog]

9. good question

sheehan has to announce and probably file paper work right?...does this mean she and her followers can push her campaign until she does so......like into 2008?

[madfloridian]

18. A question that needs answers.

.

[EFerrari]

24. Here you go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

[madfloridian]

31. More here....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

"Democratic Candidates and the Democratic Party

Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic Party candidate."

[madfloridian]

57. "in races where there is no Democratic Party candidate"

"Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic Party candidate."

:shrug:

I think the Speaker of the House is a Democrat, and a very good one.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. It's against the rules to post news?

[madfloridian]

Here are the rules about 3rd party

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

"Democratic Candidates and the Democratic Party

Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic Party candidate."

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. Who is working to defeat the party here?

Cindy announced her candidacy, that news was posted. She also was arrested after John Conyers ordered it yesterday. That news was posted.

I have seen no evidence of any DUer asking for campaign donations for Cindy. When (if) that happens, you can report it to the mods. In the meantime, I don't see how it is against the rules to discuss Cindy's plans. If you think it is, then you need to go through this website and report on every Ron Paul thread. Last I checked, he is a candidate and he is not a Democrat. And there is lots of discussion about him and more than a few DUers who support him.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

44. From what I understand she can be discussed

But no one who posts on this board may attempt to work toward the defeat of Pelosi via their postings here. The way I understand this is one isn't to advocate her beating Pelosi, or post any fundraiser activity regarding her campaign, or really any other campaign related information. In other words it would be breach of the rules to say, "I hope she kicks Nancy to the curb," but to say "Cindy's right, Nancy should put impeachment on the table" would not.

Here's the bit from the rules addressing this, if after reading this if you're opinion is different than mine, perhaps a PM to the admins for clarification would be in order.


Democratic Candidates and the Democratic Party

Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic Party candidate.

Do not post broad-brush smears against Democrats or the Democratic Party.

[Breeze54]

49. Sound familiar??

:shrug:

Snip-->

Albert Gore is the enemy.

http://populistindependent.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=353&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Looking for a person is the problem, not the solution. Insulting, frustrating, and silencing the most perceptive among us is what is destroying the possibility of a strong Left emerging, and is the tawdry and amoral House Negro work that keeps the ruling class in place. THAT is the f-ing problem, and that is a LONG way from the snide and demeaning accusations that critics of Gore and others are being a prissy little perfectionists, carping and fault finding for the sake of irritating people or being a party spoiler.

This “you are being a perfectionist” propaganda is infinitely more destructive to the Left than anything that ever comes from the right wingers, and is one of the most important bulwarks of ruling class power.

This is not nit-picking. It is not "being negative." It is not being a "purist."

This is the whole battle.

We have tried being polite, reasoning with people, documenting the truth, respecting and considering people's complaints that we are being too harsh, too radical, that we are making attacks, that we are alienating allies, that we are hurting "the cause."

None of that has worked.

The years slip by. Conditions grow worse and worse, The danger grows and grows. The ruling class gets stronger and stringer. Polite nicey-nice "can't we all get along children and play nice?" is bringing no positive returns and there is nothing to lose by speaking the truth as harshly as needs be to get the message across. The message is being willfully and stubbornly resisted.

[madfloridian]

51. You are comparing Cindy to Al Gore?

I don't even know what to say to that.

[Breeze54]

52. No.

Speaking to hypocrisy.

[madfloridian]

55. Who are you calling hypocritical?

.

[Yukari Yakumo]

67. They haven't

I got an e-mail from Skinner himself yesterday:

"Skinner" <[e-mail]>
To: xxxxx <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Cindy issue
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:42:02 -0400

That's a shame, but not unexpected. Members won't be permitted to use
DU to support her candidacy.

On Jul 23, 2007, at 4:25 PM, xxxxx <[e-mail]>
wrote:

The message I sent him was essentially identical to the "It's time to ban Cindy" post I made yesterday.

[KingFlorez]

14. How so?

The Democrats are still anti-war, so how have they stabbed anyone in the back?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. They voted to fund the war.

You can't be anti-war and fund it.

[KingFlorez]

25. You can't leave the troops without funding

Anyway, Bush would have found a way to keep them there with or without the funding, he's a maniac.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. Yeah, you can.

Cut the funding and they come home.

This "he's a maniac, it'll hurt the troops" crap is a bunch of spin. I can't believe people fall for that crap.

[KingFlorez]

32. You really think that George W. Bush would give up that easily?

He's resisted all attempts to end the war, it's not like he wouldn't find a way to keep the war going.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. You really think that's nothing but a lame excuse

...to excuse the democrats for caving?

[azurnoir]

43. You are wrong

when the vote was taken the WH had already sent memos to commanders about coming food shortages, ect. The administration would have "created" shortages to get their way, what do you think they give a shit whether or not soldiers eat, get medical care, have ammo, if that gets in the way of profit?

[Breeze54]

28. Still? Huh? 21 Dems, 1 Repub and 1 Indep. voted against the IWR.

Measure Title: A joint resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.

Vote Counts:

YEAs --- 77

NAYs --- 23

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237

NAYs ---23

Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chafee (R-RI)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Graham (D-FL)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)

--------------------------------------------------

U.S. Deaths Confirmed By The DoD: 3635
Reported U.S. Deaths Pending DoD Confirmation: 2
Total 3637
DoD Confirmation List
Latest Coalition Fatality: Jul 22, 2007

http://icasualties.org/oif/

[aquart]

34. Is instant gratification all there is?

Seriously. That seems to be the issue here.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

The issue is bringing the troops home.

That's it.

[azurnoir]

48. Really thats the only issue" n/t

[mondo joe]

62. Indeed. And Sheehan is running on a Magic Beans campaign.

[azurnoir]

73. Yep and if she runs

the repukes will be going "fe fi fo fum we smell the blood of Pelosidom"

[aquart]

79. And if you were the dictator, you could bring them home.

But our dictator isn't budging...and the rest of us are still using the processes of a constitutional democracy, which means every opinion has weight, and must be dealt with. WHICH TAKES TIME.

Are people gonna die in the meanwhile? You betcha. That's why it's such a bad idea to start these things.

[jobycom]

4. yes, or at least she said she plans to.

"And now Sheehan says she is considering taking her displeasure directly to the source — by waging a third-party challenge to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi next year in the California Democrat’s San Francisco-based 8th District."

http://www.nytimes.com/cq/2007/07/09/cq_3034.html

[Buzz Clik]

10. She's busting Conyers's balls, but he's already on her side.

She needs to be digging in against the reluctant.

[mmonk]

11. So he has agreed to impeachment?

When is the announcement?

[Buzz Clik]

16. Yeah, buddy, I already know where you stand. You don't have to go hyperbolic.

You know goddamned well what I said, so why twist it all around? I happen to be on her side, too, but people like you (and Sheehan and McGovern) definitely push me to Pelosi's point of view.

You people really have no idea how to manage your support.

[mmonk]

33. Would people notice us if we went away?

[Buzz Clik]

53. That's not what I'm saying.

No one is saying "Go away." Lot's of people, however, are put off by trashing those who are actually making a difference and trying to do the right thing.

You want to get in someone's grill? Try those who refuse to get on board with Conyers. They should be the targets.

[Alexander]

75. They might notice you if you acted more like adults

And less like hero-worshipping loonies.

[mmonk]

35. One thing you have to give me.

I work from within the party.

[Buzz Clik]

54. Amen to that.

And for that, my friend, I give you all the credit in the world. Hauling off to support a third party would totally suck. :thumbsup:

[mmonk]

59. No need to cut my nose off to spite my face

(though with my nose, that might be an improvement).

[philosophie_en_rose]

41. Of course he has.

He will agree to use all 600 of his magic votes to impeach Bush. Then he'll sprinkle lucky charms while riding a my little pony.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. Having her arrested is a strange way to show he is on her side

[Buzz Clik]

56. Read William Pitt's thread on this subject.

He knows Conyers and Sheehan personally.

I am bowing to his knowledge on this subject.

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. I did and I respectfully disagree with Will

[Buzz Clik]

70. No shock to either of us: we're on opposite sides of the fence.

[mondo joe]

38. I don't care if she runs as a Dem or 3rd oarty. She won't unseat Pelosi,

or be a spoiler.

But I would like her to just get going on it, so she can make her platform clear and we can be done with it.

[mondo joe]

39. I don't care if she runs as a Dem or 3rd oarty. She won't unseat Pelosi,

or be a spoiler.

But I would like her to just get going on it, so she can make her platform clear and we can be done with it.

[madfloridian]

58. Can she use DU as a site on which to campaign?

Kos told her she could not do that at at his site. I guess I am wondering since she is no longer a Democrat.

[mondo joe]

61. Not if she runs as 3rd party.

And I'm happy for her to do just that.

Just get it the hell over with.

[Freddie Stubbs]

47. More proof that Ms. Sheehan is off her rocker:

This was my third meeting with Congressman Conyers about impeachment. I hold a special place in my heart for him and I revere him for his decades long service to this nation but for the life of me, I cannot understand why he will not go forward with impeachment now.

A year ago he introduced HR635 to impeach George Bush while he was Ranking Member of the House Judiciary Committee and not even chairman.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/index.php?id=896

Last year there was an HR635. It was a bill introduced by Nancy Johnson, and if passed it would have designated Poland as a program country for purposes of the Immigration and Nationality Act's visa waiver program:

http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:HR00635:@@@D&summ2=m&

Now she is halucinating. Perhaps it is time for Ms. Sheehan to get some psychiatrist help.

[kid a]

60. I think her announcement is quite clear.

She is opposed to a two party system and will run as an independent.

Wow...I'm amazed by the people who call her kooks.
Stand in her shoes for 5 minutes.

[madfloridian]

63. I think she has every right to run...

I am just clarifying.