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So, 160,000,000,000,00 later, and who knows how many lives come November, then

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:23 PM
Original message
So, 160,000,000,000,00 later, and who knows how many lives come November, then
on to January, another $30,000,000,000.00 and who knows how many lives if we don't pour on the heat in some manner aside from what we are doing now and stop this fucking war of lies. Just tell me what fucking else we can do? We've protested our asses off, written letters day after day, donated money, made calls, organized marches, made a bazillion signs, attended meetings, flown back and forth to the capital, exposed the lies, reported the facts, campaigned, won an efuckinglection, so on and so forth,fought the good fight all to no avail so far. So what the hell is next? IMPEACH! That's what fucking next. What three pugs are vulnerable? We'll huff and puff and blow their house down, said the bad wolif, we can camp in front of their damn homes, even if they have 3. Tell me someone with a clue, what do we do?
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Someone with a clue? That wouldn't be ME, but I share your frustration. What, do we have to
wait until we can put up another Wall in DC with another 57,000 names?

Redstone
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I'm not waitin' for nutt'n, just want to know what to do next, as in now!
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-25-07 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. God, don't we all want to know that? We fought and bled and died, some of us, last time,
and I as one of the above, unfortunately, have no advice to pass along to you. I wish I did.

Redstone
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-25-07 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Feeling down about it myself Redstone. You hang in there.
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. I hear you lonestar. Sorry. nt
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. wiggs... my motto is NEVER FUCKING SURRENDER. I don't want to hear sorry. I want to hear a good
fucking idea. Storm you brain for something besides sorry.
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I spent the good part of my unproductive workday weighing in on significant issues here
and elsewhere...I have a glass of Shiraz in me after getting home from kickboxing and I'm feeling spent.

Not beat though. Glad to hear you're in fighting mode and soon I'll be there as well. Maybe after another glass...



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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I'm always in fight mode...
Ignored alot too! :toast: Itsssssok.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-25-07 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Yes. My generation is spent. We did all we could, and now we're just too fucking old and
wounded and exhausted to do it again. Sorry about that.

Redstone
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. Additional lives lost will be approx. 60,000 if current trends continue.
655,000 is the estimate from the best study to date and it is outdated by 1 year now and did not include Fallujah deaths, so a reasonable estimate now is about 1,000,000 Iraqis dead. 1,000,000 deaths / 48 months = 20,000 per month.

So 3 more months will mean 60,000 more deaths -- but, hey, what is really important? Loss of sacred lives? Or the Dems winning the 2008 election? Can't risk losing that election, can we?

:sarcasm:

October, 2006: Updated Iraq Survey Affirms Earlier Mortality Estimates

As many as 654,965 more Iraqis may have died since hostilities began in Iraq in March 2003 than would have been expected under pre-war conditions, according to a survey conducted by researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Al Mustansiriya University in Baghdad. The deaths from all causes—violent and non-violent—are over and above the estimated 143,000 deaths per year that occurred from all causes prior to the March 2003 invasion.

The estimates were derived from a nationwide household survey of 1,849 households throughout Iraq conducted between May and July 2006. The results are consistent with the findings of an October 2004 study of Iraq mortality conducted by the Hopkins researchers. Also, the findings closely reflect the increased mortality trends reported by other organizations that utilized passive methods of counting mortality, such as counting bodies in morgues or deaths reported by the news media. The study is published in the October 14, 2006, edition of the peer-reviewed scientific journal, The Lancet.

“As we found with our previous survey, the majority of deaths in Iraq are due to violence—although we also saw a small increase in deaths from non-violent causes, such as heart disease, cancer and chronic illness. Gunshots were the primary cause of violent deaths. To put these numbers in context, deaths are occurring in Iraq now at a rate more than three times that from before the invasion of March 2003,” said Gilbert Burnham, MD, PhD, lead author of the study and co-director of the Bloomberg School’s Center for Refugee and Disaster Response. “Our total estimate is much higher than other mortality estimates because we used a population-based, active method for collecting mortality information rather than passive methods that depend on counting bodies or tabulated media reports of violent deaths. Though the numbers differ, the trend in increasing numbers of deaths closely follows that measured by the U.S. Defense Department and the Iraq Body Count group.”

Key points of the study include:

• Estimated 654,965 additional deaths in Iraq between March 2003 and July 2006

• Majority of the additional deaths (91.8 percent) caused by violence

• Males aged 15-44 years accounted for 59 percent of post-invasion violent deaths

• About half of the households surveyed were uncertain who was responsible for the death of a household member

• The proportion of deaths attributed to coalition forces diminished in 2006 to 26 percent. Between March 2003 and July 2006, households attributed 31 percent of deaths to the coalition

• Mortality data from the 2006 study reaffirms 2004 estimates by Hopkins researchers and mirrors upward trends measured by other organizations

• Researchers recommend establishment of an international body to calculate mortality and monitor health of people living in all regions affected by conflict


The mortality survey used well-established and scientifically proven methods for measuring mortality and disease in populations. These same survey methods were used to measure mortality during conflicts in the Congo, Kosovo, Sudan and other regions. For the Iraq study, data were collected from 47 randomly selected clusters of 40 households each. At each household selected, trained Iraqi surveyors collected data on the number of births and deaths that occurred in the household between January 1, 2002, and June 30, 2006. To be considered a household member, the deceased had to have lived in the home at least three months prior to death. When interviewers asked to see a death certificate at households reporting a death, it was presented in 92 percent of instances. The survey recorded 1,474 births and 629 deaths among 12,801 people surveyed. The data were then applied to the 26.1 million Iraqis living in the survey area.

While the survey collected information on the manner of death, the study did not examine the circumstances of the death, such as whether the deceased was actively involved in armed combat, terrorism, criminal activity or caught in the middle of the conflict. The study outlines other limitations of the survey method, including the hazards of collecting data during a conflict.

The results from the new study closely match the finding of the group’s October 2004 mortality survey. The earlier study, also published in The Lancet, estimated over 100,000 additional deaths from all causes had occurred in Iraq from March 2003 to August 2004. When data from the new study were examined, it estimated 112,000 deaths for the same time period of the 2004 study. The new survey also found that the number of deaths attributed to coalition forces had declined in 2006, though overall households attributed 31 percent of deaths to the coalition. Responsibility could not be attributed in 45 percent of the violent deaths.

According to the researchers, the overall rate of mortality in Iraq since March 2003 is 13.3 deaths per 1,000 persons per year compared to 5.5 deaths per 1,000 persons per year prior to March 2003. This amounts to about 2.5 percent of Iraqi’s population having died as a consequence of the war. To put the 654,000 deaths in context with other conflicts, the authors note that during the Vietnam War an estimated 3 million civilians died overall; the Congo conflict was responsible for 3.8 million deaths; and recent estimates are that 200,000 have died in Darfur over the past 31 months.

http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/press_releases/2006/burnham_iraq_2006.html
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. OK. So the question is what to do and now.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-25-07 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
11. Dunno about that life and death type stuff
Edited on Wed Jul-25-07 12:12 AM by libnnc
But I do know that we have focus groups to woo, debates to attend and an election to win in '08.

:argh:
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-25-07 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. They're gona focus alright! All of us!
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-25-07 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. move along...nothing to see here...just plan to vote...
everything's fine...gotta win in '08

no worries...

powder dry and all that jazz
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