Holy Crap! Prescott Bush Plotted Coup against the USA in 1933

[ORDagnabbit]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document.shtml


Document uncovers details of a planned coup in the USA in 1933 by a group of right-wing American businessmen


The coup was aimed at toppling President Franklin D Roosevelt with the help of half-a-million war veterans. The plotters, who were alleged to involve some of the most famous families in America, (owners of Heinz, Birds Eye, Goodtea, Maxwell Hse & George Bush’s Grandfather, Prescott) believed that their country should adopt the policies of Hitler and Mussolini to beat the great depression.

[NewJeffCT]

1. replying now

so I can find the article tonight.

[Lerkfish]

37. me, too

[NewJeffCT]

44. for some reason

the BBC site is blocked at my work.

[ooglymoogly]

244. Here is another lead fromThe Guardian to counter some of the boulerdash posters

oshttp://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

[KoKo]

286. Thanks for Link.. AlsoKevin Phillps book "American Dynasty"

lots of good research about Prescott, Walker and the "Arms Merchants" in the Bush/Walker background. It's a fascinating read.

[Bitwit1234]

69. The History Channel did a whole show on that

but I bet it has been scrapped by now.

[Dollface]

158. I remember seeing it many years ago (as many as 10 I think) , BT (before TIVO)

Shortly thereafter, I wanted to refer it to someone but I was unable to locate any reference to it anywhere. It was so long ago the Prescott Bush thing didn't leap out at me. Now I see why I never was able to find the program again. As I recall, the conspirators attempted to get a US Marine to lead some troops in the coup but he didn't go along and caused the plot to fail. Apparently he believed in the Constitution.

U.S. Marines to the rescue.

[PatSeg]

181. I saw something last year about this

but I don't recall Prescott Bush's name mentioned. I think I saw something on YouTube and it was fascinating. I'll see if I can find it.

[PatSeg]

184. It's gone!

Actually it was a Google video, but it had been removed. Gee, fancy that.

[bobbolink]

231. See post #222. It's available.

[Dollface]

235. Sweet. Thanks!

[bobbolink]

250. You're very welcome! And, welcome to DU, Dollface!

:toast: :bounce: :party: :toast:

[bluescribbler]

234. The Marine was Major General Smedley Butler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

The Boston Chapter of Veterans for Peace is named The Smedley Butler Brigade in his honor.

[ptolle]

249. check here

I'd known of this event for some time and found this fairly good summary of personalities and occurrences:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Coup.htm
To this day Smedley Darlington Butler( see also his ought to be more famous "war is a racket"speech)http://tinyurl.com/bh13
is the only jarhead-with the exception of a couple personal friends who served during my war-that I unconditionally respect.This man believed and lived his oath to protect the country from ALL ENEMIES.

[bobbolink]

162. I requested my library purchase that dvd, and they did -- SIX COPIES!

Try it.... it's good to have it in a public library.... some people stumble upon it by accident!

[NotGivingUp]

173. Very cool! I wonder if I can get the same thing done down here in Florida. nt

[bobbolink]

174. Ya never know until you try. It doesn't cost you anything to request they

purchase it, and if they do, you are the first on the list.

The positive thing is, it isn't an expensive dvd.

Here's an idea..... enlist several friends/neighbors/relatives, etc., to also request it. ^_^ There's strength in numbers. :hi:

[havocmom]

185. Or just buy a copy or two and DONATE them to your local libraries

Most libraries take donations. Lots of foundations and groups buy a lot of material and just send it to libraries. Up to staff whether to add to collection, so requests AND donations might do the trick.

[bobbolink]

188. For those who can afford it. I certainly can't, and know there are many who can't.

So many DUers assume everyone here is muddleclass.

Not all of us are.

[havocmom]

189. Not assuming anything and not really suggesting YOU do the donating

Just putting a suggestion out there for people who might be able to act on it.

Jeeze, stop with the defensive posture.

Most libraries are also cash strapped. They get by with help from the public. Too many people don't realize that and don't realize many libraries are thrilled with donated materials.

[bobbolink]

191. Geeeez, yourself.

I've seen so much of this, assuming that everyone is like you are, and can donate and give, give, give

If you don't want to be reminded, then word things that include ALL of us.

Simple.

It's called empathy. Or, you could get defensive about being reminded, and put down those who are reminding you.

Peace.

It's your choice.

[havocmom]

192. Hmmm, speaking of assuming...

you assume I am not poor too? Boy, pot calling my ass a kettle

:rofl:

Assuming IS a choice. I made no assumptions at all. You did. Hope tomorrow goes better for ya.

[bobbolink]

194. When you make blanket statements like you did, of course that's how it sounds.

It really isn't hard to write in front of your post, "If you can afford it...", then write your suggestion.

By leaving that out, of course you ASSumed that the person could afford to follow your suggestion.

Really, how difficult is that?

Then, of course, you had to trash me because I brought it up to you.

Oh, and I was doing fine until I got your little stinging attack.

So, my tomorrow will be just fine if you don't repeat tonight's action.

Remember, peace-making is a CHOICE.

[havocmom]

236. cookie?

Really, I refuse to apologize to you when no offense was meant.
I am really sorry that you internalized a comment that was a suggestion to the readerS (not just you) in regards to the subject of adding to library holdings.

Edited to add: I am NOT the author of your financial situation nor am I the author of any snit fit you feel the need to throw because of it. I have worked hard for years on issues regarding the struggles of working class and poor in America. I also have worked hard for years to keep public libraries going as the vital link to information for the working classes and very poor who do not otherwise have access.
So sue me.
:rofl:

[bobbolink]

251. wow.... such kind compassion...

Look at your words, and imagine how you would like to be on the receiving end.

When you can't even have compassion and caring for someone on the same side as you, and with the same goals and passions, how in the world do you expect we can ever achieve world peace?

keep on laughing at others... that's the way to peace.

blessings on you, dear. You're in sad need of them.

There's no reason to continue this, as you have a huge need to be the superior one. Just like the rest of the USians.

Given that, I'm sure you have a big need to have the lasst word. Have at it.

Good bye. I hope you find peace somewhere, sometime.

[PoconoPragmatist]

255. Maybe If YOU Ever Were REALLY Destitute...

Maybe then you'd understand the defensive posture. I been there. I'm still walking thru the shitstorm. I'd love to donate a few boucks to this site, and can't, because I've been unemployed two years. so, let's have Paul Caddell remind us all again about how the economy "isn't that bad."

I'm in school to learn medical transcription, so that I can launch my own business, and get out of the economic rut I'm in.

I'm able to do this, only because I had someone to turn to...someone to fall back on...someone who would support me and make this possible. My mom.

Have you any idea how many of us DO NOT HAVE the alternatives I did? How many of us are down in the pit of economic ruin and despair, with no way back up?

Try a little empathy.

Maybe she shouldn't be so defensive...but I understand the defensiveness. Maybe you could, too, if you tried...and cared.

I'm so amazed at all the insensitivity I see sometimes here on DU, towards issues of poverty. you'd think Democrats would CARE about these issues. Guess not.

[havocmom]

264. Been there. Done that. Managed NOT to be so shortsighed

I am amazed at the assumptions made by some here on DU. If someone does not march in lock step and nod along it is not evidence that they do not have the same experiences.

IF someone wants to internalize & take offense at a comment made to THE GENERAL READERSHIP, that is in their power only. If that comment was not a direct order or accusation, it was not an offensive comment, just taken that way. None of us has power on how any other individual takes and internalizes a comment. To think otherwise is really a condensending slap on the mindful attention of anyone in the discussion.

I am not in charge of other's internal thought processes and perceptions. If I offend, I take a look at the possible causes and see if it was my inability to state something logically and mindfully or if it was some problem with the way it was preceived by another. I cannot control or correct the latter. I cannot address the perceptions and biases of each reader.

And re if I had ever been "REALLY destitute" : Homeless, jobless, incomeless and needing medical care qualify? You make an assumption and judgment without knowing ANYTHING about my experiences. I am VERY mindful of poverty, AND HOMELESSNESS from personal experience. You don't know that about me, but made an assumption about it. That was not the best way to make your point.

[PoconoPragmatist]

269. Perception Is Reality

whether you meant to or not, you offended someone with your comments, and your apparent lack of concern for those less fortunate than yourself. The least you could have done, instead of attacking...was to show a little empathy for a person who is obviously hurting very badly...else they would not have perceived your comment as hurtful...or directed at them.

Maybe I did not state this as well in my first response. I hope this clears up what I intended to point out. I never saw anyone get hurt as a result of giving just a little empathy, and actually acting like they CARE about someone who is obviously hurting.

And sometimes...getting just a little empathy when you are down can make the difference in a person's day, week, month, year...maybe even their life. Stop and think about it, huh?

I really DO see bobbolink's point, there DOES seem to be a lot of non-compassion and non-concern around here about poverty issues.

[AverageJoe]

243. Yes, libraries take donations, BUT as a rule

they don't add anything to the collection that doesn't fit in with their collection development policies. I think it is a great idea to donate a copy of this DVD to your local library, but you might save yourself some grief if you show them a review or even an actual copy of the DVD before giving it to them to keep.

Find out if they want to add the DVD to their collection. Otherwise, it might end up in the annual Friends of the Library book sale....

[Chemical Bill]

273. Hey havocmom! I like your suggestion. n/t

[cui bono]

219. What is the DVD called? n/t

[bobbolink]

230. As post #222 mentions, the title is "The Plot To Overthrow FDR"

[cui bono]

262. Thanks for the title, since you can see my post was #219.

:P

[Roland99]

222. Amazon.com has the DVD and a book on this available >>>>>>>>>>>

DVD

In Search Of History - The Plot To Overthrow FDR (History Channel)
http://www.amazon.com/Search-History-Plot-Overthrow-Channel/dp/B000FKP0NM



Book

The Plot to Seize the White House: The Shocking True Story of the Conspiracy to Overthrow FDR (Paperback)
http://www.amazon.com/Plot-Seize-White-House-Conspiracy/dp/1602390363

[ooglymoogly]

246. The History channel has in the past been know to rewrite history

when coming under herculean pressure from the right. The reason there is scant info on this is that the bushitler family have been sanitizing records for decades and viciously going after anyone bringing up anything damaging. case in point Bushitlers military records.

[Fridays Child]

178. Same here.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

239. more info on this wikipedia article-we owe smedley butler big time

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

[MrModerate]

2. And in December, 2000, the coup finally succeeded . . . n/t

[L. Coyote]

75. Remember Nov. 1963? June 1968

The Iran Hostage Crisis, the Arkansas Project, Watergate burglary, and the list goes on.

How do we define "junta?"

[rambler_american]

132. Remember?

Hell yes!
How many conservatives can you name who have been assassinated or died in a plane crash? Tony Soprano is a chump by comparison to this gang.
:mad:

[valerief]

126. You got that right! nt

[BlueEyedSon]

166. agreed

[bdamomma]

3. hmmm..... trying to do his grand pappy's work is he?

bush crime family is correct, they are just criminals.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. I knew the monied classes hated FDR

I just didn't know how much. That many of them would be for fascism as it was like in 1933 doesn't surprise me any more than the many who embraced Communism and socialism at the time (of course those folks weren't the super-rich, but part of the proletariat.)

[JHB]

33. Try to look up the July(?) 1934 issue of Fortune magazine...

...one long, lascivious wet kiss to Mussolini's Fascist Italy and his tactics.

[dmr]

124. 'War Is A Racket' written by Major General Smedley Butler

He is a hero of mine, and I count him in as one of my founding fathers, right alongside Washington, Franklin, Jefferson and Roosevelt - my other heroes. I think we're on the verge of the completion of the latest coup, you know 'Coup 2000'. It's near decision time for all of us - Impeachment or Revolution - and if the Bush* admin had their way right now, they'd throw me away by key or by bullet for saying those words ... So I'm shouting - why doesn't my Congress see the immediate dangers?

Anyway, you can read his book at this link, and I think you can download it in pdf file.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

Below is an excerpt from a chilling speech he delivered in 1933 on Interventionism


War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

...........

Awsomely, just awesomely spine chilling to read, isn't it?

[druidity33]

137. hey, thanks for that! nt

[Uncle Joe]

151. Semper Fi, General Smedley Butler!

:patriot:

[cachukis]

242. US Banruptcy 1933

Butler is a truly heroic character. Hence, I had to join DU to provide a link to more needed background knowledge. I sold law books years ago and learned about 1933 US Bankruptcy and the Uniform Commercial Code. Has to do with that yellow admiralty fringe around the "US" Flag. Has to do with Executive orders and Marshall Law. Has to do with the 14th ammendment and indirectly Munn v Illinois (citizen rights to corporations). Has to do with you not owning anything purchased with Federal Reserve Notes (FRN's)as they are pledged to the Bankers. This is much much larger than Prescott Bush. The Rothschilds didn't take kindly in 1838 to Jackson ousting their bank. Read on DU 'rs on see what Butler was really up against and his real heroism.

http://www.halexandria.org/dward282.htm

This will explain the Federal Reserve and banking influence on some of the issues discussed.

Just search US Bankruptcy 1933 to find more info.

Cachukis

[Jackpine Radical]

145. Joe Kennedy was a Bundist as Amabssador to England too, remember.

[PATRICK]

160. Coup was the name of the game

There were fifth column industrialist and financier everywhere to emulate the German model and simply overthrow their own democracy. It was not an ideological leaning, a party offering, a movement, it was a franchised plot. In this country the worse disservice the Dems did, not recognizing how their assumption of power after the WWI debacle and Depression was a a fortunate historical occurrence, was to stop short in exposing and punishing our homegrown creeps. Prescott Bush and other prominent GOP officer veterans formed the American legion and many other things to drive the chaos their way. Pearl harbor did their schemes in, and with gnashing of teeth they had to help dismantle their brethren's mad experiments overseas and risk cementing democratic government forever.

But they went under their rock only partially, got over their wrist slappings and formed exact and unbroken lineage of family, institutions and money to start all over again.

That is NOT a proclivity for ideological propositions and "free market" capitalism. It is an ongoing specific conspiracy where only thugs and creeps can be enlisted who share the same damaged treasonous usefulness to help the cliques. Dems prefer to look upon the surface as political competition when it is a criminal conspiracy of the extermination of democracy as a prelude to absolute power. You can learn more about these type of people from Hitchcock's "Saboteur" starring Robert Cummings than any press or government agency. The major occurrence of looking for "Nazis" in our midst has been dominated in our media since the war by the pre-emptive, disingenuous tagging of Commies as "Fifth Columnists." Such was the inappropriate tag line for these bogeymen(supplied graciously by our enlisted German nazis in Intel) that never a peep was made about the right wing in this country. Instead we enthusiastically joined the anti-Communist crusade used by Hitler to get what HE wanted. The huge diversion worked disastrously and the cabal slipped wholesale back into their customary deceitful, stolen power.

[bobbolink]

163. "worse disservice the Dems did, not recognizing how their assumption of power after the WWI debacle

and Depression was a a fortunate historical occurrence, was to stop short in exposing and punishing our homegrown creeps."

Then, not fully exposing the assassination of Nov, 1963.

Then, not fully following up on the Nixon impeachment.

Then, letting slide the Iran/Contra mess.


Then.... lo and behold, here we are, with the prospect of impeachment of *bushco.

Kinda makes ya wonder, eh?

Who's in on what?

[tomp]

211. if only such ideas could take hold on du. nt

[demigoddess]

252. maybe that is the reason why the generation before me (I'm a boomer)

seems to be under the impression that FDR let Pearl Harbor happen on purpose, and also that he is essentially a communist. I guess the mass media did their job back then too.

[helderheid]

5. rec 3 - took 67 years to do it but it done been done.

[TechBear_Seattle]

6. I believe the correct phrase is...

The nut doesn't fall far from the tree.

[On the Road]

7. Wow -- That is Big

However, I didn't see anything explaining where the names came from. Hearsay, Smedley Butler, or testimony at the Congressional hearings?

[AllyCat]

78. According to Malloy's show last night, he said Butler's testimony

was striken from the record after all the hearings were done.

[lumberjack_jeff]

182. The only transcripts which exist are heavily redacted.

Down the memory hole.

[SoFlaJet]

8. Randy Rhodes taught us about this 6 years ago

trading with the enemy-of course the republicans could care less-then and now-and just dismiss it as liberal media bias

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

38. What Randi was talking about was different. This is a report of a Fascist coup

against Roosevelt. I've read lots about Prescott but never this.

[Joe Chi Minh]

150. They were hoping to gt Smedley Butler to joint them, but he blew the

whistle on them. They were never brought to trial for treason, of course, or anything else.

He was a hero to ex-soldiers, whose rights he fought for, so that's probably where the half a million war veterans come in - or rather they hoped they'd come in.

JP Morgan and other big banks - at least one, I believe English - were apparently among the prime movers.

Google Smedley Butler, and you'll find it all.

[zbdent]

9. Amazing what you can pull off when you know the right people ...

if it were Joe Average who had business dealings with the enemy back then, they would have been bankrupt and run from the country ... Prescott got his money back after the war and the "nation's blessing" ...

[Supersedeas]

55. when the blood runs blue

[Patchuli]

105. Nothing "blueblooded" about that family

Nothing but scoundrels and scum, everyone of them.

[Vilis Veritas]

10. So where is the document?

I mean it is common knowledge that Prescott Bush supported the Nazi Regime. His property was seized in 1942. He controlled Harriman Bank.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

Peace

[orleans]

54. this is the smedley butler story

"In 1934 Butler came forward and reported to the U.S. Congress that a group of wealthy industrialists had been plotting to overthrow the government of President Franklin D. Roosevelt in a military coup. Even though the congressional investigating committee corroborated most of the specifics of his testimony, no further action was taken."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler#Exposes_the_Business_Plot

[Vilis Veritas]

84. Right...got it. I am a big fan of Smedley...I post sometimes on his...

War is a Racket. I just like to be sure of the source.

Smedley was the last of a kind...we need a new Smedley...Clark, maybe? I don't know.

Peace

[groovedaddy]

229. Some say this killed Smedley Butler

Butler was evidently initially outraged that nothing was done about his revelations. He attempted to draw attention to the hearing. The report generated by congress redacted all names associated with the coup. The media also clammed up about it.
Butler evidently lost his faith in the ability of "the system" to work for justice and it took a toll on his health. He died in 1940.

[JHB]

74. "Document" is the name of the radio programme...

In the OP it should read:

Document uncovers details of a planned coup in the USA in 1933 by right-wing American businessmen

[Vilis Veritas]

83. Thanks. I did get that part...the doc

I am referring to is the stuff that was viewed by the reporter...I mean, he should have got some one from the US to go with him and makes some copies, not sure if you can even do that. Perhaps someone is already pursuing this via the FIA...I just have little access and wanted to see what Mike was talking about...

Wish I lived near the archive, had unlimited time and money and didn't need a real job...

Peace

[helderheid]

11. I just tuned into this :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/rams/document.ram

[JCMach1]

12. kick and rec...

just listened to it... had heard about the plot before, but this reporter does some additional digging...

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

13. The more I read about these people...

...the more amazed I am that Roosevelt was not assassinated. These were among the most powerful people of their era. Maybe there were some lines they just didn't want to cross, unlike the behind the scenes criminals who run our country now.

[hedgehog]

96. There was an attempt before the inauguration. nt

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

14. Shrub Family Were Involved In Assasinations Of JFK & JFK, Jr. Also nt

[Just-plain-Kathy]

25. Adding, John Hinckley's father was an oilman and friends with the Bushes.

If Reagan died, VP Bush would have became president.

[Sequoia]

43. That was the plan though.

So, since Reagan couldn't be killed they made sure he forgot everything.

[Megahurtz]

129. I believe that, too. n/t

[Sequoia]

256. Rat bastards, eh!!!

When I read years later that Hinkley was the son of a Bush pal, that was the sound of the other shoe dropping. I wonder if Ron suspected anything?

[NewJeffCT]

46. Bush Sr. was supposed to have dinner with Hinkley that night

if I recall.

[jobycom]

57. Neal Bush, not Sr. And it was John W's brother.

They lived together in Colorado. Neal and his wife knew the Hinkleys. The father was a mentor of sorts to Neal in the Colorado oil business scene. John Hinckley's brother was invited to Neal's house for a double date dinner type thing.

[AllyCat]

81. Neal Bush...savings and loan scandal guy, right?

This family truly is a crime family that makes the Mob look like Disney characters. I mean really...the mob basically just takes out people they know professionally and/or personally. The Bush Crime Family doesn't care who it takes out: women, children, black, white. Just so they get their money. That's all they really care about.

[jobycom]

90. Bingo! Silverado Savings and Loan. Bush had to investigate three of his sons

for criminal wrongdoing while president and/or VP. Neal Bush for the Silverado thing, where the investigators basically concluded that he was guilty of a lot of crimes, but they weren't going to punish him for any of them. JEB Bush for a real estate scam involving drug cartels in Florida, where they concluded he was guilty of crimes but they weren't going to do anything about it. George W Bush, who was investigated twice. First, for illegal insider trading involving his sale of Harken Energies stock, where he sat on the board and somehow knew to sell two thirds of his stock just before it plummeted. Investigators found that he was guilty of several crimes, but decided no to prosecute him. (Notice a pattern?).

Second, W Bush was part of an investigation involving Salem bin Laden, brother of Osama bin Laden. Salem had provided startup capital for George W's first business venture, Arbusto, where, despite never showing a profit in any form, many of Bush Daddy's friends invested millions. The investigation, though, was over whether Salem had properly declared himself a foreign investor. James Bath, Salem's representative in America, was legally required to inform Bush that Salem was a foreign investor, and when investigators asked Bush about it, Bush claimed he couldn't remember (sound familiar), and he didn't James Bath, anyway (again, sound familiar?). When investigators later proved that Bush and James Bath had been best friends in the National Guard and had several other connections, Bush's response was basically "Oh, that James Bath. Yeah, I knew him, and he told me Salem was a foreign investor."

Investigators decided that even though Bush had clearly committed perjury and obstructed justice, they weren't going to prosecute him for anything.

Just to re-emphasize--this was while Bush Daddy was president, and the investigators were appointed by Bush. As some have labeled them, the Bushes are the family that preys together.

Salem bin Laden, btw (sorry if I'm boring you :) ), was two years older than Osama, and they were reportedly close before Osama first went to Afghanistan to fight the Russians. Salem, himself, was reportedly the pilot who flew Bush to Spain in 1980 to meet with Iranian representatives, allegedly, to convince Iran to hold the hostages until Reagan won the election. This has never been proven. Yet, around the same time that Abbey Hoffman committed suicide, after investigating this story, Salem bin Laden was killed in a small (experimental) plane crash in Garden Ridge, Texas. He had been living in Marble Falls, a small town just outside of Austin, where W spent a bit of his time. (W was also a pilot, remember).

I haven't even touched on the whole BCCI connection, which involved the Bin Ladens, Iran/Contra, and the Bush family.

Anyway, all the Salem bin Laden/October surprise stuff has been investigated, and most investigators claim that the OS didn't happen, thus Salem wasn't involved. His plane crash seemed pretty routine, especially for a light aircraft--though there are theories that try to make it sound more sinister. But it is fascinating, and even if Hoffman committed suicide and Salem died in an accidental plane crash, the connections are astounding.

That's all from memory. May have gotten a detail or two out of order, but that's the gist of it. If anyone cares.

[AllyCat]

280. Not boring. Very interesting.

I knew some of the stuff like the Arbusto deal, but not about Jeb and it never occurred to me 41 was involved in the investigation (well, "oversight" anyway). No wonder they all walked.

"Greatest" crime family of the 20th and now 21st centuries. What will their offspring do for an encore?

[rucognizant]

138. AND Hinckley's Father...............

Ran or runs a CHristian Camp in South America, ( Isn't that where a lot of Nazis fled after WW II?)
One of his young disciples shot Gov. George Wallace, leaving him crippled for life. He was a terrible racist: BUT he was trying to beef up the Dem. party in the South. If memory serves me......it's a little fuzzy on this topic........so much blood under the bridge since I read it, back in 2002-2003. Google it there's a whole page........pick the Expose one by Wayne Madsen. A lot of other people have written about it too.....goody; reading material for t he mext 2 weeks!
It's like a multipointed star! Everything ( almost) bad & secretive, that has been revealed in the las several years, touches one of those " MILLION POINTS OF LIGHT"

[formercia]

233. I've dealt with the Hinkleys first-hand.

They are definitely part of the network.

[jobycom]

47. Yes, that one is well documented. JW Hinckley may have even known W Bush.

The evening of the assassination, in fact, Neal Bush had a double date with Hinckley's brother where they both lived, in Colorado Springs, IIRC (and has publicly admitted this--no conspiracy theory needed). The families were somewhat close, and Daddy Hinckley was something of a mentor for Neal.

GW and JW lived in Lubbock at the same time for a while. He has denied knowing JW Hinckley, but that's his normal pattern. He also denied knowing Jack Abramoff, Ken Lay, and James Bath, when the relationships were bad for his press. JW's family knew the Bush's, so it's not hard to believe that JW and GW would have at least been notified that they lived near each other. They were both rich, spoiled kids of oil money parents.

Daddy Bush and Neal Bush have both admitted to knowing the Hinckleys, so there's not speculation involved in that. Daddy Hinckley was a big contributor to the "Bush for President" cause when Bush ran against Reagan--public record. Not too hard to imagine that they never gave up believing that Bush and not Reagan should be in office.

It doesn't really prove a conspiracy to kill Reagan. JW may be as mentally ill as they claim, and/or he may have taken it on himself to promote Bush--thus making his daddy happy. (The Jodi Foster angle is not as clear as the media made it out to be, and could have been a cover story to begin with). The Bushes may not have known about it in advance. But that was never investigated, since Bush himself was in charge, and declared early on that they would not trouble the Hinkley family any further by investigating them. So we don't know, and it's Bush's fault we don't know.

[ProudDad]

195. Too bad for them

They didn't figure that the bullet would just bounce off ray-gun's excuse for a heart...

[jobycom]

30. And in Roswell, George Wallace, and the episode where Fonzie jumped the shark. nt

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

52. It's Working

You're pretty much an example of how their LIES work even on Democrats.

I guess I should just believe what I'm told is the truth. If they say it's so, then it must be.

[jobycom]

63. I'm pretty much an example of an historian who as a kid believed all that crap

and who spent ten years investigating the evidence, the scene of the crime, and most arguments on both sides, not to mention talking to (even working for) one of the witnesses from the motorcade, trying to prove it conclusively. The opposite happened-- I realized that not one bit of evidence on the conspiracy side holds water, and just about every lie told about evidence that can be definitively proven comes from the conspiracy side.

I don't believe anything I hear until I can prove it with evidence. So it's not me who's simply believing what I've been told is the truth. Not me at all.

[defendandprotect]

131. That's garbage . . . the only way you could miss the evidence that it was a coup on JFK is if

you actually weren't looking -- !!!

Ten years! Where were you looking, in you closet?

[jobycom]

247. The only way you could believe that is if you refused to look at evidence at all.

See, we can this forever.

[Thothmes]

283. Coup

And Lyndon Johnson was successful, wasnt he.

[Joe Chi Minh]

153. A mafioso in on it, one of the shooters, I believe, made a death-bed confession.

Also didn't Warren say that his report was the most shameful thing he'd done in his life - rubbish it in some way?

[jobycom]

258. There have been a lot of deathbed confessions.

None have provided any evidence.

As for Warren, he never denounced the commission's findings. He may have been critical of some aspect of it. Others were critical of the Warren Commission while basically agreeing with its findings. The House Select Committee on Assassinations, for instance, criticized the WC, but basically agreed with its conclusions, although they thought, based on disproved audio evidence, that there was a fourth shot fired from the Grassy Knoll, thus a conspiracy.

[Joe Chi Minh]

266. "....but basically agreed with its conclusions, although they thought,

based on disproved audio evidence, that there was a fourth shot fired from the Grassy Knoll, thus a conspiracy."

That could hardly sound more contradictory. Disproved by whom, incidentally? FBI, CIA or other official experts? The same people who messed up or kept secret so much of the rest of the physical evidence?

Why were the services of the top physician specialising in massive traumas cause by gunshots, who lived right nearby, and was waiting by the phone, overlooked in favour of two rooky phsyicians who had only recently qualified?

By the way, I know there are people like yourself who will argue until Kingdom Come, in the teeth of the most compelling circumstantial evidence of a conspiracy, so don't expect me to argue the toss with you. You can fool some of the people some of the time... People all over the world can recognise the wealth of circumstantial proving a conspiracy.

As for deathbed confessions, the law recognises them as very special - because the vast majority of even bad people want to unburden themselves before they die. What reason would they have for lying to that effect on their death-bed anyway? (One suggestion will suffice.) So your comment about there being no proof is just infantile. Do you think someone on their death-bed, an insider, moreover, would expect to be disbelieved? He would have known his confession would scarcely absolve him of the shame of the aprt he played.

[Joe Chi Minh]

159. You don't sound as if you are intelligent enough to follow it now, never mind as a youngster.

The actuarial statistics for the deaths of so many patriotic Americans who volunteered information as witnesses, dying all manner of mysterious within the space of 3 years, are the most damning of all - and what's more, the most incontrovertible proof. The figure is truly astronomical.

Unless you believe all the circumstanital evidence pointing to the character who killed his wife, including the recorded telephone call during which he told his girlfriend that they wouldn't have to put up with his wife for much longer, was worthless. Common sense isn't all together anathema either in the law, or for that matter, science.

It is an axiom of science that all truth is statistical, at least with the exception of 'a priori' truths. Maths, however, belongs to 'a priori' truth, so there is no more certain certain circumstantial evidence than astronomical odds for or against a proposition, be they electoral returns or an astronomically high improbability of deaths of those witnesses. All that is necessary is for the appropriate data to be factored in. The insurance industry entirely depends upon it. Well, also, apparently, cheating and stealing. But that's another matter, really.

[jobycom]

259. Yeah, I'm known for being pretty goddamned stupid.

The actuarial statistics, when done properly, do not show any unusual death patterns. When done by people cherry-picking data, thus the conclusions are bunk.

Figures don't lie, but liars figure, and all that. Surely you've heard that. Or maybe not--I'm so goddamned stupid I'm sure I've heard a lot of stuff you haven't, right?

[Joe Chi Minh]

265. None so blind as those that will not see. Whose side are you on the figures or the liars?

What do you think of the magic bullet?

[jobycom]

268. You took the words right out of my mouth. So open them eyes.

The "magic bullet" has been shown over and over and over and over again by computer simulation, mock recreations, and every other method to be a simple bullet that followed a straight trajectory through Kennedy's neck, Connally's torso, wrist, and then thigh. Oliver Stone wanted to deny this so badly that he created false drawings of the seating arrangements in his movie, then created false trajectory routes that made the bullet seem to zig-zag. Obviously, he wasn't the first to do this. But the evidence, the science, proves exactly the opposite. Connally was not directly in front of JFK, but was seated lower and to the left, and when shown in computer mockup, with the angle of the limo to the window, the slump of Kennedy's shoulders, and Connally's position, the path of the bullet is straight.

Now, you answer me this, since you're so goddamned much smarter than me. Kennedy had a wound on the front of his neck, the back of his head, and between his shoulders, aligning with the wound on the front of his neck. Connally was seated in front of him, lower and to the left, but still largely in front of him. At the most, four shots were fired, although the evidence is pretty firm that there were three. One went through Kennedy's skull. Now, that leaves three bullets (two in reality, but let's pretend). Explain the wounds to me, then. The autopsy and medical reports are public, all the exterior wounds are known. Connally was struck in the wrist and the leg, and had a wound on his chest and his back. Connally's wrist and leg were below the edge of the car, and behind the front seat. The windshield was not damaged. Where did the shot that hit him in the leg and wrist come from? There are no tall buildings in front or to the sides of the limo, and no bullet pierced the window. The wound was too low for a bullet to have come from the Grassy knoll because of the side of the car. It had to come from above, and behind. Let me know if you can imagine another place it could have come from.

Now, if it came from above and behind, how did it hit Connally's wrist and leg (assuming both wounds were caused by one bullet) when both were shielded from any shots coming from behind by Connally's body, and behind that, Kennedy's body. How did that shot hit Connally on the wrist and hand without going through Connally's back and chest, in other words? When you realize what I'm saying, assuming yo open your eyes and look at the facts instead of at what you really, really, really wish to be the case, you'll understand that the bullet that hit Connally's wrist and leg had to be the same as the bullet that went through Connally's chest, and it had to come from above and behind, or else it could not have hit his wrist.

Pretend for a moment that's not true, and you'll see why it is. Connally had a wound in his chest, and a slightly higher wound in his back. No bullets were removed from Connally, so those wounds had to come from the same bullet. The bullet could not have come from the front unless someone was lying on Connally's lap.

So, that's two bullets. One exploded Kennedy's head, one struck Connally from above and behind, passed through his chest, then his wrist, and lodged loosely in his leg. Two (really one, but we're pretending) bullets left.

That's good, because there are two wounds to Kennedy--between the shoulders, and front of his neck. Except that any rifle strong enough to be fired from the Knoll, the SBD window, (we can rule out the overpass--the initial conspiracy theorists fantasy point--because the windshield wasn't broken), or the buildings far behind the limo would not stop in his body, especially the neck, but go right through. Okay, well that can still work for a conspiracy... one bullet missed, one went through his neck and exited his shoulder. Yeah, it screws up the whole "the neck and back wounds couldn't have been the same bullet because the back wound was too low" argument, but since that argument is easily debunked by just drawing a line between the two holes, it was a bad argument anyway.

Now, so, you have a bullet hitting Kennedy either in the back or the front of the neck, and passing through. Where did it come from? If it came from the front, it would have had to come from the sniper lying on Connally's lap. If it came from behind, where did it go? Into Connally? But wait, we've already proven that all the wounds in Connally came from the same bullet. Are you trying to tell me that the same bullet that entered Kennedy's back between the shoulder blades and exited lower on the front of his throat is the same one that went through Connally? Who would believe that?

Well, the Warren Commission believed it, and the House Select Committee on Assassinations could find no other possible scientific conclusion, and computer mock-ups reach the same conclusion. In fact, it's hard to reach any other conclusion, because the same argument that conspiracy folk use to "prove" the "Magic Bullet" couldn't have done what it did sinks the conspiracy folk. Connally was in front of Kennedy. The bullets had to go somewhere. A bullet couldn't pass through Kennedy from the back without hitting Connally, and couldn't pass through Connally from the back without first passing through Kennedy. And no bullet could have hit Connally from the front and created his wounds, because of the car body, the windshield, and the front row of seats. The bullets had to have come from behind. Oh yeah, and watch Zapruder, and you'll see that Kennedy was always facing forward--the neck shot could not have come from the side.

Thus, there is no other path that the "magic bullet" could have followed except the one the Warren Commission, the HSCA, and science says it did.

Now, that doesn't rule out a head shot to Kennedy from the front. In fact, it makes it easier, because we have only proved the direction of one of three--excuse me, we're still pretending--four bullets. And I can go through it all with the head shot, too, but I've typed long enough, and you only asked about the Magic Bullet. Here's a hint, though.

Now, if you are as brilliant as you claim, you'll simply say "balderdash" and point out how goddamned stupid I sound, so that you can continue to believe what you want to believe. I know, I've been through this quite a few times. Science and evidence frequently take a back seat to gut feelings. But I thought I'd try. That's how goddamned stupid I am.

[Alexander]

53. Thanks for your willful ignorance.

You're no help.

[jobycom]

65. Back at you.

We can do this all day.

[Alexander]

92. Except you haven't cited anything to back up your claims.

There is a well-sourced article in the OP, and you are ignoring the content in favor of cheap attacks.

We can do this all day, but you'll only look sillier with each passing minute.

[jobycom]

101. Neither have you

The story in the OP is about Prescott Bush's connection to the attempted coup against FDR. I have not challenged that, so there's no reason for me to provide contradictory evidence. The coup is an old story, investigated at the time, and affirmed by key participants. It doesn't surprise me that Prescott was involved. Here's the Wikipedia article on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

If you want to argue over JFK, sorry, I really don't. Someone posted a claim that Bush was involved in several assassination. No evidence was included. I made an equally unsupported, and in my opinion, equally ridiculous, statement. You then responded with a quick attack on me, and no details, so I responded in kind.

Seems like a completed circle to me.

[RaleighNCDUer]

140. Well, there is the statement, on record, that GHW didn't know

where he was on that day - probably the only one of 120 million adult Americans who doesn't. Not 'evidence' I know, but an obvious, bald-faced lie. The question then is, why lie?

[cobalt1999]

134. Did he also own the studio where they filmed the "fake moon landings"?

I can't forgive the Fonzie thing though. :rofl:

[Megahurtz]

128. I believe it. n/t

[NoodleyAppendage]

15. Well, at least this news adds more fuel to a genetic link for EVIL.

The Bush family needed their genetic tree lopped off at the roots decades ago. All of them are EVIL pieces-o-sh*t.

j

[Demeter]

21. It's a Family Business--It's Not Genetic!

If it were genetic, they'd be succeeding (or dead). No, this is just a family enterprise, shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in 3 generations, God willing.

[glitch]

60. Frauds 'R Us - The Bush Family Saga

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3255.htm

[Mojorabbit]

16. kick and r

[CGowen]

17. too quick for WTC7 and to late for Prescott... BBC n/t

[davidwparker]

18. K&R

[FredStembottom]

19. Are the Brits giving us a heads up?

I was thinking just yesterday "I wonder if our traditional allies will start speaking against this admin. someday?"

[formercia]

114. Here's what probably would have happened.

Franz Von Papen, A Knight of Malta, convinces Von Hindenburg to appoint Hitler Chancellor. We know what happened there.
Had the plot here succeeded, the US would have probably remained out of the War and Hitler would have conquered Britain.

We would probably all be learning German in school.


..so you can see why the Brits would have been in a bad spot.

[RaleighNCDUer]

142. My family's from west of the Mississippi --

I'd be speaking Japanese.

[formercia]

223. Probably true

and we would all be serfs for the Ubermench.

[mikelgb]

20. Holy Crap! George W. Bush Plotted Coup against the USA in 1999

and he got away with it!

:wow:

[pnwmom]

22. MORE info at this link:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2007/240707fascistcoup.htm

SNIP

In 1936, William Dodd, the U.S. Ambassador to Germany, wrote a letter to President Roosevelt in which he stated,

"A clique of U.S. industrialists is hell-bent to bring a fascist state to supplant our democratic government and is working closely with the fascist regime in Germany and Italy. I have had plenty of opportunity in my post in Berlin to witness how close some of our American ruling families are to the Nazi regime.... A prominent executive of one of the largest corporations, told me point blank that he would be ready to take definite action to bring fascism into America if President Roosevelt continued his progressive policies. Certain American industrialists had a great deal to do with bringing fascist regimes into being in both Germany and Italy. They extended aid to help Fascism occupy the seat of power, and they are helping to keep it there. Propagandists for fascist groups try to dismiss the fascist scare. We should be aware of the symptoms. When industrialists ignore laws designed for social and economic progress they will seek recourse to a fascist state when the institutions of our government compel them to comply with the provisions."

The proven record of Prescott Bush's involvement in financing the Nazi war machine dovetails with the fact that he was part of a criminal cabal that actively sought to impose a fascist coup in America.

Prescott did not succeed but many would argue that two generations down the line the mission has all but been accomplished.

[dipsydoodle]

23. Honest word of advice

avoid links to that site. Threads usually get deleted by the Mods.

[pnwmom]

34. Thanks, edwardlindy.

Hopefully they will make an exception this time.

[Buttercup McToots]

70. Chris Dodd's father?

Is it?

[LeftishBrit]

216. No; Chris Dodd's father was Senator Thomas Dodd..

[connecticut yankee]

130. Yes

we are now living under a fascist state.

[LiberalFighter]

237. Then it was Americans that enabled Hitler. Americans such as the Bush family

[Swamp Rat]

Doesn't surprise me at all

[dflprincess]

24. Treason - a Bush family tradition

and just like the current Bush, Prescott got away with it and was elected a senator from Connecticut. In fact the Connecticut Republican party has an annual dinner named for Prescott.

No doubt the Connecticut representatives to the Continental Congress and Constitutioanl Convention are spinning in their graves.

[devilgrrl]

26. Oh come now. You better be careful in what you say!

:sarcasm:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1427119

[Malikshah]

56. Thanks-- as soon as I saw this thread, that little gem of a thread came to mind--

couldn't remember the title or OP-er though.

Strange coinky-dink, no? ;)

Where is that "voice of reason" from yesterday??

[TankLV]

76. Thanks - you beat me to it.

That poster is a TROLL.

Period.

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. Yep. Grandson psycho is just finishing what he started.

:(

[shance]

106. Smedley Butler wasn't a coward nor are those who care enough to stand up

and not so easily accept abuse and defeat.

What choice will you make?

[ananda]

28. Mission Accomplished by Grandson in 2004!

nt

[shance]

107. Mission Accomplished my ass! What are these defeatist, throw in the towel posts?

Do you think Smedley Butler was scared?

Damned straight he was but he used his brain, used his instinct and insight and he outsmarted them.

You can too.

If you believe it you can achieve it.

[shance]

108. War is a Racket by General Smedley D. Butler - a perfect book to give friends and family

its small, concise, brilliantly heartfelt and totally opened my eyes to war. I read it in one sitting.

[Ian David]

29. Mike Thomson investigates why so little is known about this biggest ever peacetime threat to America

Document uncovers details of a planned coup in the USA in 1933 by a group of right-wing American businessmen
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document.shtml

[tnlurker]

31. For reading later

[FiveGoodMen]

32. Nancy Pelosi told Charlie Rose that the Bushes are a lovely, patriotic family

Think we've got problems.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

40. And Hitler was a good dancer.......

:puke:

[TankLV]

79. and watercolorist I heard...

[PurityOfEssence]

123. Vegetarian, too.

Loved kids, would play with them for hours.
Didn't smoke.
Didn't drink.
Was a decorated war hero from being a front-line combat soldier for four years.
Spoke often in public speeches about the necessity of education being founded on a belief in god.
A real stand-up guy, that Dolfie.

Need more like him in these trying times...

[Boudica the Lyoness]

187. He wasn't a vegetarian

That's an old story that's wrong. He gobbled down German sausage by the pound.

[dflprincess]

42. I don't suppose she was being sarcastic?

n/t

[formercia]

71. Yup.

The boys have all bases covered.

[JanMichael]

190. Sad. Sad that so called "Liberals" support that ignorance.

And why I'm about through with this whole duopoly bs.

[Zorra]

35. That's why chimpy views fascism as a family value.

And why he is doing everything he can to eradicate democratic government in the US and elsewhere. He simply believes that democracy is wrong.

[BlooInBloo]

36. LOL! How the pendulum swings - from a concern thread yesterday....

... advising DUers to go easy on the old-bush accusations to this! I prefer this.

[Norquist Nemesis]

39. Yes, and when you see the Bush-bots applauding like-minded minions

at a fundraiser dinner with the featured speaker positioned under a banner of "Prescott Bush Foundation", the only thing that surprises me is that they're not saluting seig heil.

[glitch]

50. They only do that in the privacy of their clubs and homes. Usually in front of closet altars. nt

[Az_lefty]

41. I guess his dreams coming true under smirky...

WTF is with that damned family? They have no sense of decency or honor at all. They call their critics unpatriotic but they are the most un-American of all.

[undergroundpanther]

113. they are psychopaths

wanting to keep control.A dynasty of tyranny they are.

I wish there was a way to go Machiavellian on these criminal families.
To kill one in power is not enough you got to kill all of them so none are left to try to rebuild their evil legacy..

[seemslikeadream]

45. "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer, ein Volk"

"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer, ein Volk"



One Hope, One people, One country, One leader.
One Hope, One people, One country, One destiny.

Stand up be brave my people we're here to stay, for a thousand years.
An oath you've spoken, can never be broken, you'll pay, in blood and tears
Never tire, never doubt, never falter, never slacken, Just believe in me.
Stand up, shout loud, stand proud, in what we will we will achieve.

One Hope, One people, One country, One leader will set you free
One Hope, One people, One country, One destiny for a thousand years

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk.

It's not enough just to say you love your country, its not enough.
It's not enough to get down on your knees and pray, it's just not enough.

The price is high, the price you have to pay is your freedom, surrender yourselves.
Mothers send me your blue-eyed blonde-haired boys and let me see them, blue-eyed blonde-haired boys.

One Hope, One people, One country, One leader will set you free.
One Hope, One people, One country, One destiny for a thousand years.

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk,
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Furher, Ein Volk.

One Hope, One people, One country, One leader will set you free
One Hope, One people, One country, One destiny for a thousand years.

[melody]

48. This was uncovered a long time ago, but thanks for posting it

Prescott's son George was part of a second generation of the group that came up in Texas.
They didn't have a reason behind them -- they just wanted to see if they could rule the
world.

[formercia]

49. The leader of the coup attempt, John Roskob was a Knight of Malta

Smedly Butler was recruited by the KOM to be their inside man in the White House but instead revealed the plot.

John Roskob was one of the founders of the Knights of Malta in the US and Treasurer of that organization.

George HW Bush is a Knight of Malta (honorary).


I see that people are finally starting to get it.

[EVDebs]

80. Pretty much the entire CIA command structure since OSS days were SMOM/KOM

[formercia]

103. My father was one of them (KOM)(OSS)

General Donovan also maintained contact during the war with Franz Von Papen, another KOM, and made sure he was acquitted at Nuremberg and had his fortunes returned to him after the War. The KOM ran the Ratline and Operation Paperclip.

When I was a boy, some 50 years ago, he told me about the IG Farben connection and other stories.


He cursed me to his grave because I turned against them.

[EVDebs]

202. I wonder if this makes it into Tim Weiner's history of the CIA, "Legacy of Ashes" nt

[formercia]

221. It pretty well destroyed my family.

One of my sisters commited suicide, partially because when she found out the truth, it was too much to bear.

It turned my family to ashes.

[Gabi Hayes]

278. what the FFFF happened to HIM? did you see him on CSPAN with

David Ignatius singing the PRAISES of Richard Helms, of all people?

check this summation...one of the biggest monsters EVER:

http://www.politicalfriendster.com/showPerson.php?id=164&name=Richard-Helms


Weiner has changed, apparently, from a real reporter into a tanning boothed, three thousand dollar suited whore for the NY Times

I couldn't believe the garbage they were spewing about the CIA, while ignoring stories like Garry Webb's, the one you mention, or Operation Paperclip, about which Elaine Supkis (former DUer) has very specific knowledge (her father was OSS at the time, on the ground in Germany, helping 'rehabilitate' many of the top Nazis, integrating them into US intel)

as in formercia's case, this schism tore apart her family, as well

[formercia]

281. People of influence

crush your environment. They destroy your support network, family included and anyone that tries to help.

There was an ophthalmologist that started making a fuss because he could see that I had suffered eye damage from a laser. Within 6 weeks, his life was destroyed. He was falsely accused of molesting his daughter, his practice went up in smoke and his family was shattered.

These people are totally ruthless. I shouldn't even call them people. They don't deserve to be considered human.

[mod mom]

51. wouldn't it be great if Keith gave the public a history lesson on this!

that would get chimpy's head to explode now wouldn't it?

[quiet.american]

58. Thanks for posting. So glad this is on the BBC's site.

And now, years later, the Kool-Aid served by MSM is so strong, there are many sheeple who will scream from the rafters that Bush and his ilk are the most patriotic Americans who've ever lived.

[mmonk]

59. Many still do believe that is the best strategy

and the coup has currently been proceeding since this bush has taken office. So far. it's still in play.

[originalpckelly]

61. Isn't that the Business Plot? Holy fucking crap.

[NewJeffCT]

62. Was anybody ever taught about this coup attempt in school before college?

I don't ever remember getting informed on that in my US history class in middle school or high school - and, I had a couple of fairly liberal history teachers, too.

[RufusEarl]

64. I just received this in my email box, perhaps it will help!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUkfQzrIBVU

Report: George W. Bush's Grandfather Plotted Fascist Coup to Overthrow America
New investigation sheds light on clique of powerbrokers, including Prescott Bush, who sought to overthrow U.S. government and implement Hitlerian policies

Prison Planet | July 24, 2007
Paul Joseph Watson

A BBC Radio 4 investigation sheds new light on a major subject that has received little historical attention, the conspiracy on behalf of a group of influential powerbrokers, led by Prescott Bush, to overthrow FDR and implement a fascist dictatorship in the U.S. based around the ideology of Mussolini and Hitler.



General Smedley Butler, author of the famous quote "war is a racket", exposed the fascist plotters but was subsequently demonized and shunned by the government and the media.

In 1933, Marine Corps Maj.-Gen. Smedley Butler was approached by a wealthy and secretive group of industrialists and bankers, including Prescott Bush the current President's grandfather, who asked him to command a 500,000 strong rogue army of veterans that would help stage a coup to topple then President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

According to the BBC , the plotters intended to impose a fascist takeover and "Adopt the policies of Hitler and Mussolini to beat the great depression."

The conspirators were operating under the umbrella of a front group called the American Liberty League, which included many families that are still household names today, including Heinz, Colgate, Birds Eye and General Motors.

Butler played along with the clique to determine who was involved but later blew the whistle and identified the ringleaders in testimony given to the House Committee on un-American Activities.

However, the Committee refused to even question any of the individuals named by Butler and his testimony was omitted from the record, leading to charges that they were involved in covering the matter up, and the majority of the media blackballed the story.

In 1936, William Dodd, the U.S. Ambassador to Germany, wrote a letter to President Roosevelt in which he stated,

"A clique of U.S. industrialists is hell-bent to bring a fascist state to supplant our democratic government and is working closely with the fascist regime in Germany and Italy. I have had plenty of opportunity in my post in Berlin to witness how close some of our American ruling families are to the Nazi regime.... A prominent executive of one of the largest corporations, told me point blank that he would be ready to take definite action to bring fascism into America if President Roosevelt continued his progressive policies. Certain American industrialists had a great deal to do with bringing fascist regimes into being in both Germany and Italy. They extended aid to help Fascism occupy the seat of power, and they are helping to keep it there. Propagandists for fascist groups try to dismiss the fascist scare. We should be aware of the symptoms. When industrialists ignore laws designed for social and economic progress they will seek recourse to a fascist state when the institutions of our government compel them to comply with the provisions."

The proven record of Prescott Bush's involvement in financing the Nazi war machine dovetails with the fact that he was part of a criminal cabal that actively sought to impose a fascist coup in America.

Prescott did not succeed but many would argue that two generations down the line the mission has all but been accomplished.

In his documentary film Martial Law , Alex Jones interviews John Buchanan, who was instrumental in uncovering the documents tying Prescott Bush to the financing of the Third Reich. Watch a clip above. The subject is also covered in Alex's upcoming film, End Game, which includes rare video of Smedley Butler's testimony.

Click here to listen to the BBC Radio 4 investigation.

[On the Road]

99. Does This Mean That There's No Written Record

Or for that matter a record of the people Butler implicated? That would be very unfortunate.

"However, the Committee refused to even question any of the individuals named by Butler and his testimony was omitted from the record, leading to charges that they were involved in covering the matter up, and the majority of the media blackballed the story"

[RufusEarl]

119. Except for the BBC report, i assume no other documents are available.

[RaleighNCDUer]

154. Not outside the Bush Presidential Library --

where they are being preserved in hope of one day being used to document the triumphal rise of the Fourth Reich.

[CGowen]

220. and the press was willing to distort a bit too

On November 26, the hearings continued, but the committee itself now had cold feet and issued a statement: "This Committee has had no evidence before it that would in the slightest degree warrant calling before it such men as John W. Davis, General Hugh Johnson, General James G. Harbord, Thomas W. Lamont, Admiral William S. Sims, or Hanford MacNider."

It should be noted that these names had come up in sworn testimony, later to be deleted from the official record. The Times pursued its reporting of this development in abbreviated form on an inside page under the head, "Committee Calm over Butler 'Plot', Has No Evidence to Warrant Calling Johnson and Others." On November 27 the Times reporting declined to five column inches on an inside page under the ominous head "Butler Plot Inquiry Not To Be Dropped." The December hearings were reported by the Times on a front page (December 28 1934), but the plot was now twisted to "Reds Plot to Kidnap the President, Witness Charges at House Inquiry."

........

In other words, there appears to have been a deliberate attempt by this newspaper to mislead historians.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/27/112936/440

[Alexander]

66. This should be required reading for all history students.

No Bush would ever be elected to anything ever again.

[ryanus]

67. Do you all get it now?

To those of you who cannot stomach or accept that 9/11 could be an inside job, or think there are not evil men who conspire against the citizens of the United States, while smiling and saying they are our friend, I invite you to learn a little more history. Prescott was a Nazi supporter, even moreso. He and his cronies wanted to overthrow the US and install a dictator like Hitler. Do you think it is any coincedence that George Herbert Walker magically became CIA director? Do you think it is a coincedence that W. had the worst attack on the United States happen on his watch and given the power to transform the United States into a police state with Bushes at the head? Wake up people.

We are winning.

[originalpckelly]

68. Of course, this is the last piece of the puzzle.

It all makes sense now, doesn't it?

[unpossibles]

238. but that stuff only happens in history - people have changed!

</sarcasm>

[unpossibles]

72. thanks for the link

I had known about some of this, and some related stuff, but it's interesting to see it start to pop up elsewhere, such as the BBC!

Then again, I can assume what the typical RW resonses will be:


1 - Heinz!?! So John Kerry's grandfather in law is guilty too!

2 - We cannot judge a person by the actions of their ancestors (unless they're named Kennedy)

3 - the BBC is left-wing crap like all media! back to my comfy FOXhole!

</puke>

[Buttercup McToots]

73. bump

up

[bdamomma]

77. wouldn't you love one of our crack reporters ask * about this

"oh, Mr. Resident I understand your grandfather wanted to plot a coup in 1933 against the US", are you following in his footsteps?

Wow can you imagine how he would just crack.

[Rageneau]

203. The Media's job is to cover this up, not expose it.

There will be no questions, nor any reference to this story in the mainstream news (unless KO tackles it).

[shain from kane]

82. Philip Roth has a novel, The Plot Against America, in which Charles Lindbergh wins the

1940 presidential election, by defeating FDR. His isolationist polices and admiration for the Nazi regime, and the anti-semitic attitudes of his supporters are essential to the plot. It is worth reading to anybody interested in alternative histories.

[The Backlash Cometh]

85. Prescott may have just been an opportunist and walked into something

that was already in the making. Someone just reminded me that Teddy Roosevelt warned about the malefactors of wealth. And Teddy's term was 1901-1909.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

86. Do you know anything about Prescott Bush and the Union Bank. How he worked

for the Harrimans in trading with Nazi Germany? He was no innocent.

[The Backlash Cometh]

94. I'm not saying he was innocent. I'm just saying he wasn't the instigator.

Unless he was a player in the U.S. during the turn of the century.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

97. Why the turn of the century? The coup was against FDR in the 1930s.

Prescott did go to work for Harriman & Co. in the 20s and became a partner in Brown Bros Harriman in 1931. This was a very powerful banking concern.

[The Backlash Cometh]

109. And Teddy warned against the Malefactors of Great Wealth in 1907.

I think we've never stopped fighting an age old battle between the Lords and the common folk. We just made a mistake when we believed our country stood apart from all all other countries because of the concept that "all men are created equal." We believed that the Lords would give in easily to the concept. Obviously, they never did. The only thing that has changed in a century, is that new money has been trying to get a piece of the over-privileged action.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

89. This is a good start in learing about Prescott Bush

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

[RaleighNCDUer]

156. True, the Bush line are newcomers -

the Walkers go back to before the Civil War. Sold weapons to both sides, IIRC.

[The Backlash Cometh]

169. Ah. Strange how to evil families managed to find each other and produce

further evil offspring. Makes you wonder about the nature vs nurture debates.

[slampoet]

270. Don't forget the Pierce line (barb's family) They date back to Duncan who was killed by Richard III.

They are are old Mayflower stock.

Also Capt Josiah Pierce was the white man who invented the idea of scalping Indians as a way to collect bounties on their lives.

Many 'Mericans are under the impression that the Native people practiced scalping, when it really was the settlers that came up with the idea.

[Jed Dilligan]

87. I remember being beaten down once on DU

for simply asking the question, "If the Bush family aren't Nazis, when did they stop being Nazis?"

I feel vindicated.

[shain from kane]

98. Prescott Bush and the Bush family has a history of supporting eugenics, also.

[undergroundpanther]

117. Eugenics is an American invention

It began with Francis Galton the piece of shit,and his fukkkin bell curve and "norm" bullshit.
http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/S/science/life/biog_galton.html
(War Against the weak) The author's central thesis is that Nazi racial hygiene and its ultimate manifestations in the Holocaust were imported lock, stock and barrel from the USA, and that, indeed, it was US ruling elites who hatched the idea of creating a master Aryan race by selective breeding and then passed it along to the Nazis. More specifically, Black argues that the Rockefeller Foundation (RF) and the Carnegie Institution of Washington (CIW) funded much of the American-based movement, both at home and abroad, and so sat in the driver's seat guiding Nazi racial hygienists along their fateful path
http://www.nature.com/embor/journal/v5/n5/full/7400158.html

The depression was a brutal time for America and the air became stagnate with poverty. Americans needed someone to blame for the misfortune they suffered through and the government couldn't seem to offer any worth while solutions. This was a prime environment for the eugenics movement to move into the mainstream.
Eugenics became recognized as a legitimate science, in America, in the early 1920s. It made major moves, though, during the 1930s. The movement offered answers as to who was responsible for the social and economic state of the country. The finger of blame was directed at paupers, the "feebleminded," "degenerates" and the "mentally diseased." The Jews were one of the larger demographics targeted, along with Russian and Polish immigrants.
http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Spring02/Holland/Social.htm

[slampoet]

271. That's what Iris Dement is talking about in her song "Living in the Wasteland of the Free"

Living in the wasteland of the free...

We got preachers dealing in politics and diamond mines
and their speech is growing increasingly unkind
They say they are Christ's disciples
but they don't look like Jesus to me
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free

We got politicians running races on corporate cash
Now don't tell me they don't turn around and kiss them peoples' ass
You may call me old-fashioned
but that don't fit my picture of a true democracy
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free

We got CEO's making two hundred times the workers' pay
but they'll fight like hell against raising the minimum wage
and If you don't like it, mister, they'll ship your job
to some third-world country 'cross the sea
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free

Living in the wasteland of the free
where the poor have now become the enemy
Let's blame our troubles on the weak ones
Sounds like some kind of Hitler remedy
Living in the wasteland of the free

We got little kids with guns fighting inner city wars
So what do we do, we put these little kids behind prison doors
and we call ourselves the advanced civilization
that sounds like crap to me
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free

We got high-school kids running 'round in Calvin Klein and Guess
who cannot pass a sixth-grade reading test
but if you ask them, they can tell you
the name of every crotch on mTV
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free

We kill for oil, then we throw a party when we win
Some guy refuses to fight, and we call that the sin
but he's standing up for what he believes in
and that seems pretty damned American to me
and it feels like I am living in the wasteland of the free

Living in the wasteland of the free
where the poor have now become the enemy
Let's blame our troubles on the weak ones
Sounds like some kind of Hitler remedy
Living in the wasteland of the free

While we sit gloating in our greatness
justice is sinking to the bottom of the sea
Living in the wasteland of the free
Living in the wasteland of the free
Living in the wasteland of the free

[NotGivingUp]

177. Excellent question! n/t

[SpiralHawk]

88. "Move along. There is nothing to see here." - Corporate Media

"NO WAY ARE WE REPORTING THIS, or anything about the Bush family serving as bankers to Hitler and the Nazis. We have ASSUMED THE POSITION for the corporate-republicon borg, so move along. Now."

- corporate media

[wicket]

91. K & R

[DS1]

93. The Coup is ancient news, the BBC claim that P. Bush was involved is new

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

[KurtNYC]

95. and they didn't pull it off until December of 2000

now that's determination.

[Ganja Ninja]

102. Yup! Phase 1 is complete, Phase 2 "World Domination" is now

in progress.

[hedgehog]

100. FWIW, my Dad has always maintained that the US could have been overthrown at any time during the

Depression. It's one reason why FDR is a sacred name in our family. When talking about Prescott, don't forget the Kingfish and Father Coughlin. not to mention the American Bund. Even after Pearl Harbor, there were people who didn't want a war with Germany. There were arrests of German sympathizers all during the war, but the news was kept quiet to reinforce the notion of a united home front.

For comparison, consider Rudolf Hess and Lady Astor's Crowd. Look up speculation as to why the Duke of Windsor was parked in the Bahamas for the duration.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

204. I have a theory about Edward VIII (David), later Duke of Windsor

Who served less than a year, in 1936, and abdicated and married Wallis Simpson.

He was a Nazi sympathiser and I think he saw war coming and didn't want to fight his cousins. The English royal family is German due to Queen Victoria's husband, Albert of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

The Windsors were formerly named The House of Hanover, and the Mountbattens (Prince Philip) changed their name from Battenberg.

Once someone asked Edward VIII why he spoke German, and he said "Ist mein Mutterspracht".
(It's my mother tongue.)


VERRY Interesting website about Edward and Wallis and their child:

http://we3.org

[Thothmes]

284. Speaking German

King George I could only speak German. He never learned English.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

224. KO mentioned Father Coughlin

on his show last night (Wed). I was in the kitchen and didn't catch it all so not sure of context. Yeah, KO should do a whole show on The Plot.

[Starfury]

104. The Plot To Seize The White House by Jules Archer

http://www.clubhousewreckards.com/plot/plottoseizethewhitehouse.htm
http://www.chris-floyd.com/plot/The_Plot_to_Sieze_the_White_House_by_Jules_Archer/

You can read it online at either link, if anyone wishes to do so. From the Forward:

This is the true story of a remarkable American who, during the early New Deal years, was sought by wealthy plotters in the United States to lead a putsch to overthrow the government and establish an American Fascist dictatorship.

According to retired Representative John W. McCormack, former Speaker of the House, if the late Major General Smedley Butler of the U.S. Marine Corps had not been a stubborn devotee of democracy, Americans today could conceivably be living under an American Mussolini, Hitler, or Franco.

An ironic aspect of the conspiracy General Butler unmasked is that few Americans have ever heard about it, or even know anything about the general. As children all of us were taught about the treason of Aaron Burr and Benedict Arnold, whose betrayals were safely cobwebbed by the distant past. But school texts that deal with the New Deal are uniquely silent about the powerful Americans who plotted to seize the White House with a private army, hold President Franklin D. Roosevelt prisoner, and get rid of him if he refused to serve as their puppet in a dictatorship they planned to impose and control...

[mzmolly]

110. Well, it took a while, but he eventually succeeded.

Go Prescott!!!

[deutsey]

111. They made the mistake of recruiting a figurehead for the coup who had a conscience

War hero Smedley Butler.

No such luck this time with W.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

112. Let's hope it's not a family tradition - Prescott, H.W. Bush in Dallas, Junior now

I'm not saying George H.W. Bush entered a plot to commit a coup d'etat on November 22nd, 1963, but there are questions regarding his involvement in the CIA that have never been cleared up. I think he hasn't even admitted to being a member of the CIA at that time, despite the memos that suggest otherwise. And as for his idiot son, well we know from his own words that he would have loved to be a dictator instead of President and only time will tell if he and Cheney make their move.

[undergroundpanther]

115. Of course it is.

Look at the names that repeat in washington recycled from administration to administration. And then look at their family trees and who they are related to. This country has been infested with this sickening dynasty of tyrants for generations..

[sce56]

179. Yes there are many questions Like his talk with J Edgar Hoover at FBI HQ 23 Nov 1963

Is that the Man?

[sce56]

186. Evidence the CIA was behind RFK's assaination also.

CIA = Bush Family Operated Business
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/6169006.stm

The report is the result of a three-year investigation by filmmaker Shane O'Sullivan. He reveals new video and photographs showing three senior CIA operatives at the hotel.


What were they doing there? It's our obligation as friends of Bob Kennedy to investigate this
Paul Schrade
Three of these men have been positively identified as senior officers who worked together in 1963 at JMWAVE, the CIA's Miami base for its Secret War on Castro.

David Morales was Chief of Operations and once told friends:

"I was in Dallas when we got the son of a bitch and I was in Los Angeles when we got the little bastard."

Gordon Campbell was Chief of Maritime Operations and George Joannides was Chief of Psychological Warfare Operations.

Joannides was called out of retirement in 1978 to act as the CIA liaison to the Congressional investigation into the JFK assassination. Now, we see him at the Ambassador Hotel the night a second Kennedy is assassinated.

[AntiFascist]

116. Paleoconservatives even warn of Bush Admin's "Flirting with Fascism"

From American Conservative Magazine:

http://www.amconmag.com/06_30_03/feature.html

What de Felice showed, by contrast, was that Italian fascism was both right-wing and revolutionary. Ledeen had himself argued this very point in his book, Universal Fascism, published in 1972. That work starts with the assertion that it is a mistake to explain the support of fascism by millions of Europeans “solely because they had been hypnotized by the rhetoric of gifted orators and manipulated by skilful propagandists.” “It seems more plausible,” Ledeen argued, “to attempt to explain their enthusiasm by treating them as believers in the rightness of the fascist cause, which had a coherent ideological appeal to a great many people.” For Ledeen, as for the lifelong fascist theoretician and practitioner, Giuseppe Bottai, that appeal lay in the fact that fascism was “the Revolution of the 20th century.”

Right-wing revolutionary movements seem to be a recurring theme.

[baldguy]

118. Flirting?

He's courted fascism. He's taken it out for a weekend bender, fed it 'till it 'puked, gotten it drunk and made wild monkey-sex to it in the public square.

or maybe it the other way around - anyway it's gon WAY past flirting.

[undergroundpanther]

120. Bush family is up to it's ears in horrrible things

"It is quite clear that one of the major challenges of the 1970s ... will be to curb the world's fertility." -- George Bush Sr.
http://www.tribalmessenger.org/t-bush/bush-family.htm
And how does he propose we DO that? Eugenics! A die off.
The human condition is severely weakened when the world's super power leads by example a systematic abuse of humanity and civilization. Bush has taken the world down a path that is most evil and most heinous since his reign of terror began some four years ago. How much farther will the world go down this nefarious path with Bush? How much longer will the world appease Bush before human beings rise up and in defense of their civilization they take their world back?

A "scientist" named Pianka wants 90% of us killed off to "save the planet". Of course the top 1 percent of the wealthy criminal class will be spared the rest will be among the rich thugs and syncophants of the rich thugs.Eugenics ain't dead it's dressed up as"green" now.

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/eric-pianka-time-for-an-interview-with-the-department-of-homeland-security/

[ClayZ]

121. K and R

[onewholaughsatfools]

122. say it ain't so

digging into prescott bush history of his life and times, this
has been well known for years, that's why i left america when
bush stole the election in 2000, wait till the time for bush
to go and see what happens, no need to be surprised america is
doomed by the bush's

[BeHereNow]

125. Welcome to DU- and you are not alone; many people left. Wish I had.

I'm starting to think the wondow may be closing for
people who want out of this clusterfuck of a country.

Where did you move to?

BHN

[BeHereNow]

127. Nevermind, I see by your profile you are in Mexico now.

I've thought very seriously about NZ myself.
My friend moved there before the Bush cabal
takeover- she loves it and is damned glad she
got out when she did.

My only reservation is the fact that my
parents are here and I feel the need to
be here for them, although I would love
to move them to NZ too!

BHN

[defendandprotect]

133. They actually wanted MacArthur to lead the coup --

And, evidently, they didn't like having this line up appearing publickly as trying to knock off FDR . . .
Du Pont family, as well as leaders of U.S. Steel, General Motors, Standard Oil, Chase National Bank, and Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company.

It would be a signal of how dangerous capitalism is harmful to democracy -- !!!

Thank heavens for Smedley -- !!

Meanwhile, as many authors/investigators have made clear, since the Revolution and the attempt to create democracy there were always the few who stood against it, usually secretly -- but they knew that it wasn't an IMMEDIATE threat to them -- that they had time.

Meanwhile, the founders, of course, began this new republic by distributing land to elites and special privileges -- like the ability to vote - which non-landowners were not able to do, of course.

So -- we begin with elitism . .. and they still wanted more.

Capitalists have been on government welfare since the very beginning.

I'm amazed that so many have ignored this information about the Bush Crime Family --

[defendandprotect]

139. Also just want to mention re Bush/Nazis . . . Allen Dulles & Precott Bush worked to finance Hitler -

Prescott Bush worked for his father-in-law -- Herbert Walker Bush --

Much of the financing for Hitler was worked thru Allen Dulles' company -- Sullivan & Cromwell.

They converted American dollars into gold -- shipping it to Hitler.

All of this went on over a long period of time before they were stopped --

There were at least five front companies --

Hamburg America Line? the Steamship company was one of the ways to move $ onto Hitler.

It was very late in the game when they stopped them --

At that point, Allen Dulles declared himself dedicated to America and involved himself in intelligence.

Prescott Bush wrapped himself in the flag and became a member of Congress !!!!


So -- we have a few problems with following thru on moving criminals out of the way --
and finally we come to the coup on JFK -- they, of course, did not want another FDR.

[defendandprotect]

143. But the Bush crime family wouldn't do anything like 9/11 or lie us into Iraq -- !!!!!

[sce56]

196. Did you know that JFK Fired Dulles then Dulles was in charge of the Warren commission

Yep the guy that fired Dulles gets hit then Dulles is in charge of the investigation? How can that be possible?
Only in America.

[Land Shark]

240. USA didn't "begin with elitism" that's what pre-existed, everything about the revolution progressive

The main reason for property qualifications both before and after the 1776 Revolution was to ensure voters have the requisite "independence" of mind and interests to defend liberty and remain informed on the issues. Vermont has universal (male) suffrage and other colonies dispenses with property qualifications as a result of the revolution. Battles were fought in nearly all. It is incorrect to claim that the USA started out elitist. It started with principles that still are guiding ones today

[Roland99]

135. O.M.F.G.!!!!

[Bjorn Against]

136. Holy crap is right

Lets hope this gets some serious attention.

K&R

[defendandprotect]

141. Like a windfall profits tax on ExxonMobil . . .

[uberllama42]

144. Is this the coup foiled by Smedley Butler?

There was a corporate coup that was Marine General Semdley Darlington Butler. They asked him to be the new dictator figurehead, but he hated corporations so he ratted on them.

[Jackpine Radical]

183. Yes, I believe this was the coup that Butler foiled.

iirc he went to Congress with his information after they tried to recruit him.

[RestoreGore]

254. I believe it as as well

[Sequoia]

260. Here's the book about it:

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gVrYRlV6L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg

"The Plot to Seize the White House: The Shocking True Story of the Conspiracy to Overthrow FDR", by Jules Archer

11 of 12 people found the following review helpful:
One of the most important books you will ever read!, March 3, 2007
By anarchteacher (United States) - See all my reviews

Excellent attractive and inexpensively priced paperback edition of the Jules Archer classic. It is terrific to have this wonderful book back in print again! The book tells the shocking true story of how United States Marine Corps Major General Smedley Darlington Butler was the savior of our Republic from a fascist plot by Wall Street plutocratic militarists in the early 1930s. Author Jules Archer is featured in The History Channel documentary, The Plot To Overthrow FDR, a concise summary of this exceptional book.

amazon.com


This book was posted a months back on DU Books Non-fiction section. I found an old basement copy in the library and it was an incredible story. Just shocks the socks offa ya. I totally recommend you all read it. I was, like gasping in shock at some of the things I read and now with all this crap going down around us it's like they never stopped trying. Ever.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

146. George W. Bush once called the New Deal socialism

In an article published in 2004 in the Harvard Crimson, Bush's old business professor at Harvard, Yoshihiro Tsurumi recalled how his student apparently hated Roosevelt's New Deal policies of the 1930s:


"...Tsurumi said he particularly recalls Bush’s right-wing extremism at the time, which he said was reflected in off-hand comments equating the New Deal of the 1930s with socialism and the corporation-regulating Securities and Exchange Commission with “an enemy of capitalism.”

“I vividly remember that he made a comment saying that people are poor because they’re lazy,” Tsurumi said.

(...)

In addition, Tsurumi is still sore about what he recalls as Bush’s slight to his cinematic taste. When he arranged for students to view the film of John Steinbeck’s The Grapes of Wrath during their study of the Great Depression, Tsurumi said, Bush derided the film as “corny.” ..."

[WCGreen]

147. Just so you know...

Joe Kennedy was removed as ambassador to England because of his sympathetic leaning toward the Third Reich...

It's always been about the money interests against the rest of us...

That's why everyone my Mother-in-law grew up with still can't say FDR's names without spitting...

[leveymg]

148. Prescott Bush and Herbert Walker were mere bagmen for the bigger players vying for a piece

of a $30 billion refinancing agreement of the World War One reparations negotiated by John Foster Dulles. That deal was renounced in 1933 as the first act of the incoming Nazi regime, setting up the even bigger World War Two and Cold War debts to come. Here's a short picture essay of "the malefactors of great wealth", as Roosevelt called them.

The time: 1928-1953

The Cast of Characters and Institutions: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1429754&mesg_id=1432684

[DutchLiberal]

149. I can't really be surprised

[cynatnite]

152. So, who will ask one of the bush's about it?

Not that I overly care since it was so long ago, but it is an interesting bit of history. I just want to see some reporter ask a bush.

[libnnc]

207. why don't you care just because it was "so long ago"?

It's more than just an interesting bit of history.

Not understanding history and the larger picture will fuck your shit up.


That's the reason we're in the crapper now. Ignorance of the past.

[cynatnite]

214. Because I don't care about bush's grandpa...

We're in the crapper now not because of ignorance of the past, but because of the george bush of today. Prescott Bush's activities didn't stop his son from getting in the WH. That's because people have a tendency not to blame the child for the actions of a parent. All anyone can say about this tidbit of history is that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. It's a stretch, IMO, but there it is anyway.

[bobbolink]

232. You took the words out of my mouth! Of course, for some, it's impossible to get through

that simple fact.

And how that history keeps repeating itself.... through the assassinations, through Iran/Contra.

So, here we are, and they're the same ones fighting impeachment.

It's the mindset that will lose this country, and then maybe EVERYONE will start to think rather than fear.

Fear and ignorance. It's such a great combination.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

155. They play for keeps...

[treestar]

157. Interesting, my right wing buddies are always claiming it was FDR

who tried to start "socialism" and a "dictatorship" with economic controls. To them, economic and environmental controls lead to tyranny, while war and terror and law enforcement to the max do not.

[bobbolink]

167. I'm wondering how this info about the plot would go over with the freeps.

:+

[Posteritatis]

161. I need to give that another listen. When's Prescott mentioned in it (timewise)? (nt)

[Sherman A1]

164. Would this be more Republican Family Values?

Stealing the country apparently IS the Family Business.

[Taverner]

165. The Bush family has been working to overturn Roosevelt ever since

Bush's "Political Capital" he used to try to destroy Social Security was him filling his family's vendetta. Thank god he was so fucking incompetent he couldn't even get it started.

[gnvresident]

168. main stream media

I read the majority of the posts and the majority of people have other articles to back up these facts as well as other atrocities committed by the Bush family and other wealthy families going all the way back to 1933 and maybe before. The question is why has none of this every reached the front page? Why has none of this been a top story at Yahoo news. Why isn't David Letterman and Jay Leno making jokes about all these pieces of history that paint a sorid picture. How long will we let it continue? FDR said in 1933 "The real truth of the matter is that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government since the days of Andrew Jackson." How can we be so passive and accepting? We should be outraged! We should demand answers for this family's legacy and some accountablity.

[bobbolink]

172. "How can we be so passive and accepting? "

Notice how well the impeachment process is going?

Talk about passive and accepting!

Notice how those of us for impeachment are run down?

Welcome to DU! :party: :bounce: :toast:

Please don't be passive and accepting here about the real wrongs being committed!

[gnvresident]

275. i will not go silent into the night

I refuse to go silent and be passive and accepting about the wrongs that are going on. Of course trying to read things at this forum is a little overwhelming due to the number of people on the forum but it is reassuring to reach posts by other like-minded individuals.

[kineneb]

170. Everyone: Check out octafish's journal

it has most (if not more) of this info there. His(?) posts are always "informative", and sometimes downright scary.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

171. Here's the complete story - corps and GOPers engaged in a COUP here in the U.S.

http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/53/53-index.html

<snip> Although Butler's patriotic efforts did thwart this fascist coup plot, the Wall Street bankers and corporate leaders who sponsored it continued to conspire behind the scenes to rid America of FDR and to smash his “New Deal.” Evidence of continued efforts by powerful U.S. fascists to regain control of the White House is illustrated by a 1936 statement by William Dodd, the U.S. Ambassador to Germany. In a letter to Roosevelt, he stated: <snip>

[focusfan]

175. I wonder why they didn't tell this before crazy people voted for him

he is a crook

[NotGivingUp]

176. Notice HEINZ was one of them, too. It's a small, small world. n/t

[Dukkha]

180. I'm ashamed he was born in my hometown

His father Samuel P. Bush is buried here in Green Lawn Cemetery. So that makes him the great-grandfather of the greatest moron. I think I'll go piss on his grave.

[ProudDad]

193. Gee, they succeeded

and they brought a substantial number of what used to be the Democratic Party with them...

We live in a corporatocracy now folks... The bad guys won...

[Divine Discontent]

198. now, I always tell you that you make such good posts..

yes, things look horrible right now, but I want you to stay positive, ProudDad. you are an honorable American where shrub and his family, UNBELIEVABLY so, have ascended to total power, in effect. but they will fall, and I feel it will happen sooner rather than later, their evil grip on our country will not be permitted. all of us who have to face these horrible revelations are hurting - but goodness and mercy will prevail. (and biblically too, imo, since I'm a believer)

KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT!

[ProudDad]

209. Sure, why not...

KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT!

After all these years it's a habit...

Thanks :hi:

[wildbilln864]

197. Kick! n/t

[JacquesMolay]

199. Heavy stuff....

.... great post!

[Divine Discontent]

200. well, if any kind of movement takes place

where someone sets a date around the USA, like citizenship day (sept 17) or whatever, and starts organizing "impeach the traitors" rallies - I promise to be there...

I wish some group like move on would take the lead - if we can make enough of a noise at once, we will get the story of Prescott and his family on the news for discussion - even if they mock it, they'll still report it and our real patriots will voice what people need to read online to understand what the B*sh crime family has done to this country since 1933, to WWII, to H.W. B*sh stating Kennedy was going to have an assassination attempt made on him on the very day he did die, and now Jr.'s horrible running of our form of gov't as if to destroy it for some ominous reason!

SERIOUSLY, IF IT HAPPENS - I'LL BE THERE WITH SEVERAL FAMILY MEMBERS - SOMEONE PLEASE CONTACT THE RIGHT PEOPLE - I KNOW THERE'S PEOPLE ON DU WITH CONNECTIONS TO THE BIG GROUPS - THIS TO ME IS THE BREAKING POINT - IF PELOSI ISN'T PUSHING FOR IMPEACHMENT OF HIM & DICK THEN WE NEED TO RISE UP TOGETHER WITH ORGANIZATION!

[Divine Discontent]

201. I will not be on here again until

impeachment hearings begin, or a national rally for impeachment is organized... It makes me sick to my stomach to feel as if there's no desire for impeachment. Just yesterday some DU'er said people crying for impeachment need to hush because the majority of the country doesn't want it.... if they're told the truth - they'll want more than just impeachment.................


later

[othermeans]

205. Old News read: THE PLOT TO SEIZE THE WHITEHOUSE 1971 Smedley Butler

saved the Republic.

[ooglymoogly]

206. and it only took them what 73 years to Finlay pull it off.

they should have been hung then and they should be hung now.

pssst I can give you the hidden names then and now...Rooooosterfeller, F*rd, B*sh, and a hooooost of others and wannnabeeees.

[hollywoodlib]

208. Read The Unauthorized biography of George H.W. Bush

You can find it online free

[helderheid]

210. SIXTY SEVEN FUCKING YEARS LATER...

[formercia]

287. We can't embarrass these assholes while they're still alive

God forbid we should have a semblance of justice.

I say, this time, the perpeTRAITORS should not get away.

Give them their due process and throw the book at them.

[pnorman]

212. The role of Prescott Bush in that plot, was minor if not non-existent.

In my opinion, pursuing that "lead" is not only as waste of time, but may also cast doubt on the credibility of FAR more important leads. The history Channel DVD is still available (I have a copy), but it's still on the web at: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=628728631767818729

The book by Jules Archer on which that video was based, was (up till recently) long out of print, and all but unavailable. It was recently released at a reasonable price. But it too, is on the web at here: http://www.clubhousewreckards.com/plot/plottoseizethewhitehouse.htm

pnorman

[dipsydoodle]

225. Ta for both of those

I'm watching the video as I write and have ordered the book.:toast:

[pnorman]

227. Good move!

When I first found that book on the web over a year ago, it was complete, and with each chapter in .htm format (viewable with a browser). I promptly saved the entire book on my HD. I just now checked carefully, and saw where each chapter is only excerpted, probably because it's now in commercial circulation ("Fair Usage").

pnorman
PS: I hold to my original assertion --- Prescott Bush seems to have had NO verifiable connection to that plot.

[ooglymoogly]

241. He was just trading and giving aid and comfort to the enemy

If you have these facts that show otherwise then post them.

[pnorman]

263. I can see why you've disabled your Profile (sigh!)

n/t

pnorman

[ooglymoogly]

267. never had one....sigh

[cutlassmama]

213. Those who do not learn history are condemed to repeat it eom

[Norrin Radd]

215. k+r

[acmavm]

217. The wealthy sure loved this country, didn't they? Still, who made out best

during the Depression? The super wealthy. They just got richer.

[liberal N proud]

218. And 70 years latter, little george finishes the job

[tetedur]

226. Eisenhower and Senator Bush: golf buddies

It has always puzzled me how someone who had his assets seized in 1942 under the Trading With the Enemy Act could be elected senator in the fifties. Prescott was also golf buddy with the former Allied Commander Eisenhower in the fifties. What was Eisenhower thinking? Was he keeping his enemies close? He warned of the military/industrial/congressional complex. He also warned that there were forces that didn't want social security and they would try to undermine it.

[CGowen]

248. He supported Eisenhower

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=110x11174


I think Eisenhower learned gradually and didn't like the way it was going

[nuxvomica]

228. This is the first I've heard of Prescott Bush linked to the plot

I've long suspected he was involved -- considering his relations with the Nazis -- but never saw his name linked before. I suppose there's no chance Tony Snow will be asked about this.

[The Count]

245. I'm so proud! Sudenly the Florida 2000 coup looks all different now, ain't it?

They shoo showed us what they can do for us!

[RestoreGore]

253. Traitors

http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm

[camusrebel]

257. The Skull-n-Bones plot was victorious

Sure, they wanted to be like Mussolini and Hitler but soon wondered, who would be our "enemy"...........i got it, let's fight each other, Brilliant!! We can stop this madness.
We DO NOT NEED TO WAIT AROUND FOR A LEADER. Make sure your Rep. is signed onto House Resolution 333, to impeach Cheney. Get up from yor keyboard NOW. Picket his office with signs like
"Not signing 333=Complicity" even if he's not there, get some friends, get some publicity, spread the word. We cannot wait for the MSM to tell us Kucinich's Res has now 15 brave Reps. signed on and only need a few more to start the investigations.

The time is now. If we all do what we can to demand, force, cajole, shame our own Rep. to sign 333, SOON...we may avert their upcoming wet dreamed of police state, WW3 starting w/Iran, a draft etc. We all must find the courage to act.

Peace

[robertpaulsen]

261. Recommended & bookmarked last night. Kicking today!

:kick:

[Roland99]

272. This deserves another kick!!

[Just-plain-Kathy]

274. With so many recommendations, why did this thread fall off the main page?

It's not even 24 hours old?

[Cerridwen]

276. Extra! Extra! Read all about it! In one of the newpapers of the day.

Yep, straight to you from January 1939. Suppressed testimony and who the players were.

(Dial up warning) 13 page .pdf file titled "Wall Street's Fascist Conspiracy" scanned from an original.

Oh yeah, blood pressure warning, too.

[formercia]

277. Joseph Kennedy, Knight of Malta and admirer of Hitler

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1450664&mesg_id=1451405

[Gabi Hayes]

279. interesting discussion here, including some very idiotic posts, but mostly very informative

http://www.metafilter.com/34627/The-Forgotten-Coup

[Ghost Dog]

282. This belongs in my journal.

Por esto lo comento.

[and-justice-for-all]

285. Prescott wasnt exactly anti-nazi either...

There is enough doumentation to support this. It has nothing to do with the History Channel.