Is the desperation here on DU that bad?

[William769]

On the 1st page alone, of General Discussion: Politics forum there is no less han 11 anti Hillary threads. I realize she is the front runner but overkill is something else. And it always seems to be the same one's.

I am to the point all I can do is laugh. I have said this before and I will say it again in it's own thread, DU is a great place, but when it comes to elections it is only a minuscule of America.

I'm not saying Hillary has it all sewn up, but at least give credit where credit is due. You can trip over your feet here on DU to get in line to bash Hillary, but I go to bed at night (sleeping well I might add) that all National polls are for Hillary (some in double digits).

Hillary has been involved in politics most of her life in one way or another, and one thing is for sure, she is not going anywhere.

I am not going to use this thread to talk bad about any other candidate, I just wanted to get this off my chest.

[MissB]

1. Thanks for sharing.

I don't see the pro-candidate or anti-candidate threads to be an oddity. They're a reality during an election year.

[MADem]

2. This site historically trends a bit left of the actual party. Centrists and moderates are under

represented here ..... substantially. They get called DLC enablers and other invectives if they pop their heads up. It's unfortunate.

[David__77]

6. As if leftists don't get invective directed toward them.

I've seen it many times. But the fact is that the large majority of DUers of all ideological stripes conduct ideological criticism in a principled way. Some "moderates" may be uncomfortable simply because there is a large and coherent contingent of leftists on this site. Leftists are more adept at ideological struggle than pragmatists or centrists.

[MADem]

19. They have a larger cheering section here, though.

And that's simply fact. It's not a criticism, it is what it is.

I'd wager the uncomfortable moderates don't hang around here; the tougher ones, though they are a minority, don't get overly exorcised if they aren't beloved--this is a minority segment of the total party. They go over to Kos if they don't find any resonance here, where they're a larger group of Middle Dems, percentage wise.

You lost me with that last sentence, though. Broad brush statements about any group usually aren't true. I'd wager pragmatists and centrists reach their ideological goals with equal adeptness, and perhaps a bit less "struggle"--and that could be an issue of choice, certainly (lefties and "struggle" are a tired old cliche, really, and I know plenty of pragmatist lefties, for that matter)--but all that matters, no matter what one's coalition, is moving your ball forward, at the end of the day.

[Warpy]

3. Maybe they're trying to provoke her to tears or a paroxysm

of puppy kicking, relying on her staff to bear the bad news.

To me, she's neither heroine nor Antichrist. There are candidates I prefer, but that's as far as it goes.

I don't get it, either.

[Jersey Devil]

4. Hillary is not my first choice, but

so far she has run one hellova campaign for sure and deserves credit for it, as you say.

I think a lot of this really super-negative stuff may have a reverse effect. Heck, I have been finding myself defending her even though I don't want her to be the nominee.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. This time four years ago Joe Lieberman was the front runner.

And I think they've got an awful lot in common.

[William769]

7. I'd say they have nothing in common.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. Let's see.

They're both way ahead in the presidential polls way, way ahead of the election. Most of which is because of name recognition.

They're conservative dems. They both supported the war. They're both wishy washy on the Constitution when it comes to wedge issue- flag burning, censorship of "vulgar" media.

And I think their supporters are pretty similar too.

[William769]

13. She is not Conservative that talking point won't wash.

Unless you consider that she is right of the left of the left. He still does she does not.

[BlooInBloo]

8. DU hates Clinton more than freepers do. Exactly *why* is somewhat beyond me.

[leveymg]

16. Freepers want her - she's the only top-tier Dem candidate the GOP can beat.

That's why DUers are so strongly against her. It's not so much an ideological issue, it's about her electability problems.

Her candidacy would depress participation during the general election by the Democratic base, while exciting the GOP (who really do HATE her) to give money and turn out. The unswayed middle -- her target voters -- simply isn't the factor that it was at the time her husband was elected President. The electorate is far more polarized than it was.

I wish that weren't so. Nobody's ever been able to convincingly refute that conclusion, though.

[Virginia Dare]

25. If they want her so bad..

why do they spend so much time trashing her? Wouldn't they want her to look real good, so all of us dummycrats will go out and vote for her so they can trounce us in November? Or are they trashing her so all of us dummycrats will think they hate her so much so we'll go out and vote her just to spite them? What is the freeper logic here?

[leveymg]

30. The freeper logic seems schizophrenic. They hate her, but want her to be the candidate.

The support she's gotten from people like Rupert Murdoch is understandable on that level. There's also some hedging going on, but it's mostly a ploy to get her nominated, and then they'll start sending their checks to the GOP candidate, whoever that might be.

That approach is actually quite understandable and logical.

[RaleighNCDUer]

43. Not to mention that trashing her keeps HER name in front of the

public - and at this point it is all about name recognition - and keeps other candidates' names OUT of the news. Setting the stage where the presumption is them vs her, and no other option allowed.

[elocs]

9. There are too many here who look in the mirror and believe what they see is America.

That there is one, and only one, correct point of view or course of action, only one opinion that is important--their own. Those who differ will be belittled and labeled and find their viewpoints and beliefs trashed. It's too bad that we can not more often agree to disagree without the need to attempt to destroy those who believe differently from ourselves--and I'm just talking about fellow Democrats.

[William769]

12. Very well said, thank you.

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. When the actual, only one correct point of view is Hillary's.

(If you can figure out just what it is, after all the triangulating.)

[TreasonousBastard]

10. Wait till the election-- last time even while...

Kerry was running, the anti-Kerrybots were all over themselves about how lousy he was doing.

"Told ya so! Told ya so! He's gonns loo-ooze."

Pathetic. If Hillary runs rules be damned, this place will be flooded with anti-Hillary shit.

Anyone else who runs will get almost as much.

[cynatnite]

14. Yep. n/t

[EFerrari]

15. Have a good laugh and please don't nominate this corporatist. n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. The key is

to encourage her, and ALL candidates, to keep to the high road and not bash each other. Tell the truth about the other side--no need to bash them, they've bashed themselves.

The best way for the Dems to win over the middle moderates is to do this. In talking to conservative friends, I've found there is a profound shift away from Bush/Cheney. They are calling themselves moderates now. What they tell me they are looking for is not a candidate who bashes, name calls, and does dirty tricks--those Rovian tactics, coupled with Bush's disastrous policies, are what drove them from the GOP. They are looking for someone who is like Lincoln was--a politician who saw the wisdom of using conciliatory language, who utilized the very best in his party, placing them in his cabinet even though they were his rivals. A person who has the best interests of the nation, not partisanship, at heart.

I think Mrs. Clinton can rise to this challenge. I also think the other candidates can as well. Clinton is not my candidate at the moment, but if she becomes the nominee, she will be.

[The Magistrate]

21. Well Said, Ma'am!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

23. Why thank you!

That is praise indeed, coming from you!

[Virginia Dare]

26. Which is why I've been saying all day I'm glad she called Obama

out on his mistake. She didn't really bash him, IMO, he screwed up and she called him on it. Had he done that in a debate with a Repuke, he would have been excoriated all over the media for it the next day. There is no room for error here, so if he is to be the nominee, he's got to get tighter. I think she actually did him a favor.

[emilyg]

45. I'm with you

[Forkboy]

18. "I am not going to use this thread to talk bad about any other candidate"

I know,you save that for the threads you and other Hillary supporters start to attack Obama and Edwards.

You guys wanted to play hardball.You all attacked and attacked and were so confident that she could beat anyone that you weren't afraid of anything the others could toss your way.Now when they do you don't like it.And after some Hillary supporters called Obama supporters whiners and hypocrites for not be able to take what they dish out.You know the ones.The ones you pat on the pack when they attack someone YOU don't like.

Glad you got that off your chest. :crazy:

[William769]

20. Care to show me any threads I started attacking any candidate?

I will chime in when I feel the need to correct falsehoods which BTW has been all day today.

And Yes when a thread is posted about another candidate I will attack like a pit bull especially when it's false. But I will say again show me one thread that I started attacking another candidate.

[Forkboy]

27. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3364199

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3344211

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3304706

I'm sure these are all fully justified of course,and is in no way proof of flaming hypocrisy in any way,shape or form.

And who can forget this classic piece of Democratic unity offered up by you;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3354846

[William769]

29. Three well thats not bad considering how long I have been here.

The fourth one isn't bashing a candidate. So I stand corrected.

BTW one of those three was to show the hypocrisy of the candidate.

All in all I would still say thats a might fine record compared to many others here.

[Forkboy]

33. Though entirely expected that backpeddle was still pretty weak.

You went from this;

Care to show me any threads I started attacking any candidate?

But I will say again show me one thread that I started attacking another candidate.

to this;

All in all I would still say thats a might fine record compared to many others here.

You asked for one.I searched for three minutes to find those,and I suspect a more thorough search would have yielded more.Hypocrisy is not a "fine record".And it's ironic that a Hillary supporter would excuse their own wrong actions by using the "other people do it to" defense,which is what the Repubs do all the time with their "Clinton did it too" defense.

[William769]

37. Who's back peddling?

I admitted it. I still say thats a good record.

"would excuse their own wrong actions by using the "other people do it to" defense", where did I do this?

[Forkboy]

41. ....

All in all I would still say thats a might fine record compared to many others here.

You're comparing yourself to others and attempting to downplay your actions because you haven't done it as often as they have.It's exactly the "other people do it too defense".As in "my actions were wrong,but others do it more than me,hence my actions aren't really so wrong".

What others have or haven't done has NOTHING to do with your own actions.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

39. Hilariously busted.

I think it's "backpedal", but "backpeddle" works, too.
As in, he was trying to sell you a bridge, and now he's
trying to sell you the river.

[Forkboy]

40. That's so typical of me.

Make a good point but misspell a simple word. :freak:

[cynatnite]

22. Well, one of the few people they hate less than bush is Hillary...

It's a shame, though. No matter the good she does, she'll get crucified whatever she does.

[Bitwit1234]

24. At this stage the people who are going to vote for Hillary are not going to change their mind.

I wish they would, and vote for Edwards. . but you are right they are so desperate that their candidate is falling behind they are pulling a republican,,,,,slamming and bashing Hillary. It is a shame. They are loosing their class and character.

[William769]

28. I really like edwards and would vote for him in a heart beat if something happened to Hillary.

Even though there are 2 edwards supporters here who make my skin crawl. With that said you would never see me post something as stupid as this, I won't vote for Edwards because of the arrogance of some of his supporters. Sound familiar to anyone?

[Breeze54]

31. 11 Hillary threads?? I thought it was all Cindy threads!!

:sarcasm:

That's what many are saying in Skinner's post!

Now I AM confused!

[William769]

32. Wheres Skinners post?

I missed it. Also i have not seen any Cindy threads today or have been subconsciously scooting over them.

[Breeze54]

35. On top of GD or near the top.

You know the one (maybe).

It's about not supporting non-Dems running against elected nominee's of the Dem party, here at DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1422881&mesg_id=1422881

[William769]

38. Thank you I missed it.

[sandnsea]

34. People are uninformed

There's no other explanation for supporting Dean in 2003 and supporting Clinton now.

I'm not far left at all. As I've previously said, the only people I know who support her are old time Dems, particularly old men. Maybe she reminds them of the nuns at school, I don't know.

[LWolf]

36. I wouldn't call it "desperation."

I expect that many of those threads are from people supporting other candidates, who don't like the impression that she is "leading" anything.

Outside of that, there are many who are frankly, openly angry at the idea of a Clinton candidacy in the general election, and are expressing that opinion. It might be a good idea to listen.

Or at least, when votes in the general election are lost, to eschew blaming people who didn't "get behind" someone they were quite clear on rejecting from the beginning.

[dbt]

42. Yes.