Can the AIR CAR Save the world?

[Bennyboy]

It is important to realize that the way we power our vehicles today is based on the legacy of energy discoveries of the 1800s. Oil was first taken out of the ground in Pennsylvania in the 1860s. When the automobile industry came into being some four decades later, petroleum was the first candidate for the energy source. Even though the quintessential American inventor Thomas Edison did build an electric car, electricity was not as wide spread as it soon would be, so the power of the Rockefeller oil cartel won the day.




Today we are using the energy source discovered 150 years ago to get us to work and to the grocery store. Do we use candles to light our homes? Do we use tubes to power our radios and TVs? Do we cool our houses with blocks of ice? No, no and no! So why do we continue to blindly define transportation energy on an 150 year old discovery that we know is causing climate change, funding terrorism and is in finite supply?




In the last few decades, Western Science has, as it has penetrated ever smaller particles, come to the conclusion that everything is energy. Taking a look at energy from this point of view it strikes me as incredibly narrow to think of fuel, or energy as fossil fuel. That is just a small slice of what is available. If everything is energy then let’s look elsewhere, everywhere.




There are people around the world who are doing just that. A French company called MDI has partnered with an Indian company Tata Motors, to bring to market a car that runs on compressed air. That’s right, air. The power source is air and the waste product is air. A visionary inventor and entrepreneur, Guy Negre, the founder of MDI, has developed a compressed air engine that has the potential for being one of the great inventions of this century.

http://www.scientificblogging.com/david_houle/the_compressed_air_car

[rurallib]

1. This and the nano tech battery are some intriguing advances

that are getting very little press. This looked very intriguing. There is also a different Australian version that looks promising.

[IDemo]

9. Altairnano is very definitely worth keeping an eye on

Makers of the ''Nanosafe' batteries used in the Phoenix Motorcars pickup

[Clark2008]

2. Tee Hee. It's so cute. It looks like a bug.

[bonito]

3. "If everything is energy then let’s look elsewhere, everywhere."

Well said, great post. Welcome to DU.:)

[Jackpine Radical]

4. The Air Car cannot save the world.

Only Al Gore can do that.

[IDemo]

5. We do use tubes to power our internets

Don't we? :P

[LSK]

6. why is it needed? Toyota is about to sell plug-in hybrids

And full electric cars are definately on the horizon.

[comtec]

65. because a plug in still needs fossile fuel

as well as energy produced somewhere.
The majority of energy generation is still made by dirty means, coal, gas, or nuclear.
at the VERY WORST... you can power an air car with a bike pump (and pumping half the day, but it'd still work!) or some kind of pumping (bicycle) system.

The range is not great, but you could conceivably create a zero fuel re pumping system. It would just need man power. THAT is the kind of technology we can sell to the third world that would be USEFUL! Also Hybrids and Electrics (totally in favor of BTW) use batteries that degrade as they are used and eventually have to be disposed of.

An air car uses a carbon fiber air tank that holds compressed air. Pretty basic and non toxic.

Either way, WOO HOO! :woohoo:

[sce56]

7. I saws that on Future Cars! Great Idea Now imagine instead of funding Illegal wars we funded the

production of these cars and other alternative forms of energy like solar, wind and geothermal power we would not need all of that Arab oil in fact the money funders of terrorism would dry up! Just imagine a Trillion dollars to alternative energy instead of Dick & Georges failed war in Iraq!

[mindwalker_i]

8. Alternate fuels and energy

I looked into super-capacitors as a method of storing energy for cars. They would be great in that it's possible to charge them with little energy loss, unlike chemical batteries, so the efficiency is very high. At the time (about a year ago), I figured that a bank of 10 of these could move a bicycle down the street for a block or two. I didn't get much help assuming that an electromagnetic braking system could convert 75% of the kinetic energy back into stored charge. Hopefully, better supercaps will come along at some point.

Just yesterday I was looking up infomation on an experiment that John Cramer is trying to do with quantum entanglement and ran across somebody else's idea to use entanglement to transfer energy to space ships. This would involve teleportation of laser beams possibly (light has been teleported, as of several years ago). I don't know enough yet to definitevly call bulls*** on using this effect for energy, but it seems unlikely to work. If it did, energy could be transferred directly from power plants to cars.

Although I don't have a deep understanding of this, from what I hear other ways of transferring energy for cars such as using hydrogen have storage and other problems. Maybe a combination of hybrid, plug-in, and supercap would do the trick.

-mwalker

[sce56]

10. The brilliant thing about this is it is easy to recharge the tanks over and over again unlike

batteries which get memorized and eventually need replacement.

[karlrschneider]

12. Um, regular lead/acid batteries don't have the memory effect. Only Ni-Cd ones do.

:-)

[sce56]

18. Yes but they need more space, mass, for equivalent charge of a higher tech light weight battery

How long does your laptop battery work new compared to four years old? The Telsa is run on laptop batteries and can really cook.

[karlrschneider]

20. Oh, I think the Tesla is a cool car no doubt...I think I read it uses Ni-MH batteries

which are certainly newer and better technology. But there are other things I'd prefer to spend a hundred grand on.
;-)

[IDemo]

28. Lithium-ion batteries, over six thousand of them

[karlrschneider]

33. Well, that's a really bad idea then.

Li-I batteries are a horrible choice for machinery. They degrade from the moment they're manufactured, have only about 900 charge cycles and cannot tolerate hot or cold temperatures. The electrochemical cell voltage is, if I recall right, is about 1.2 volts (similar to most batteries) so how the heck can they connect 6000 of them to get a useful combination of voltage and amperage? I can't imagine it.

[IDemo]

36. Here is Tesla's paper on the battery system

In pdf, so pop an extra 2 gig of memory in the system and take a look: http://www.batterypoweronline.com/images/TeslaRoadsterBatterySystem.pdf

[karlrschneider]

39. Heh...no memory needed, just some disk space! I did skim the piece, interesting.

Looks like to me they have a thousand pounds of 7000 potential failure points. Maybe they have it doped out but I don't think I'm ready to drop a hundred grand on a car that runs on penlight batteries...not right now anyway and as if I could afford it anyway. :D

[IDemo]

43. It looks to me to have been designed with an over-abundance of protection

With each cell containing a passive over-current device and a "current interrupt" device, and "The cells also incorporate numerous mechanical, thermal and chemical factors that contribute to their safety."

They seem reasonably confident in their battery solution that they are considering offering battery design to other EV and hybrid manufacturers: Tesla Energy

Although, you're right about the cost. At very much less than a hundred grand, here is my present energy-saving transportation choice:

[karlrschneider]

50. Haha...nice bike. I have one too for short trips to the nearby store

but it's not very practical to get to the nearest actual grocery store (a Wally World 9 miles away but it's the only one within 38 miles)

[AndyTiedye]

55. Lithium-Ion Batteries are 4.2 Volts Each Fully-charged

[karlrschneider]

61. You're right. I was thinking about Nickel Hydride cells.

I haven't properly learned the chemistry of the Lithium cycle. Me bad. :-)

[mindwalker_i]

22. Lead acid batteries and efficiency

BAtteries get about 25% efficiency in terms of how much electrical energy you put is vs. energy you get out (I may be a little off on this, but would be surprised if the error was > 15%). The easiest way to get hydrogen is to split water (easiest in terms of being simple) and the efficiency is really low there too.

-mwalker

[karlrschneider]

38. Well, a car battery from WalMart is about 80% efficient.

When it's new, anyway...an old one might go as low as your figures at which point it's pretty much used up. Maybe your figures are from some calibration method I'm not familiar with...but generally if you stuff 100 ampere-hours into a regular lead-acid battery you can get back 75 to 80.

You are correct about electrolyzing water. It's an easy way to get hydrogen but it is NOT efficient overall.

[karlrschneider]

11. Not sure what a "super capacitor" is but if they work in the usual way, there are some problems

that seem to be pretty much unavoidable...yes, they are relatively efficient but the energy storage ability of a capacitor is quite small unless it's the size of a cruise ship, and there's the exponential discharge rate (charge rate, too) where most of the energy goes in and comes out really fast for a short while but then degrades quickly.

As to "teleporting light", I can't imagine how light isn't -always- 'teleported'. Why would "light", as a normal part of the electromagnetic spectrum be any different from, say a regular radio broadcast - at a much longer wavelength? It's pretty easy to transfer energy that way (I can light up a bulb from a fair distance from my transmitter, but it's impossibly inefficient)

I'm not saying it can't ever be done, a la Heinlein's _Waldo_ but I think that's really really unlikely. :-)

[mindwalker_i]

26. Re: regular capacitors

Super capacitors have capacitances in 10s or 100s of farads - YES FARADS! Look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercapacitor

The energy density is still a lot lower than batteries, but it's improving. As for the exponential curve thing, the energy can be drained off into a series of small (regular) capacitors which then connect to a medium cap, delivering the right voltage. Every connection from cap to cap should be through an inductor and just allow it to go for one half cycle. If you don't, 1/2 the energy is lost due to line resistance, no matter what that resistance is.

-mwalker

[karlrschneider]

32. Well, the Wiki article doesn't have much testable data (as mentioned at the top)

The actual capacitance value doesn't mean much in the real world of power transfer. You can buy a 10 farad cap on ebay for a few dollars but it won't move a car. :-)

I don't understand your point about inductors...they don't have any affect on DC circuits and I'm unaware of anybody having invented an AC capacitor...? Reactance whether capacitive or inductive is immaterial to DC. so I guess I'm kinda lost here...

[mindwalker_i]

41. Re: inductance in the circuit

If you hook up a DC source to a capacitor, there will initially be a big spike of current flowing into the cap. After the initial spike, it'll quickly go down, but that current, times the resistance of the wire, will dissipate a lot of energy - 1/2 of it. Try the equations out and you'll see that no matter what the resistance is, 1/2 the energy will be lost.

In my scheme, you put an inductor between the cap and either the DC voltage source or another cap. The current will follow a sinusoidal function, diminishing as it goes along due to resistance. Now, if you cut the connection after the first half-cycle, a "chunk" of energy will be transferred during that time. The losses due to resistance are very small. I calculated values a while back to get 98% efficiency on this. The point is to cut off the current as it crosses zero in order to prevent huge voltage spikes due to trying to instantaneously change the current in the inductor. Also, after the half-cycle, efficiency can only go down as current flows the other way.

-mwalker

[karlrschneider]

44. Well, it sounds like you're describing the behavior of half-wave rectified AC

(unfiltered) which combines the characteristics of both AC and DC. What equations are you referring to? Ohm's?, Kirchoff's? Gilbert's or Hertz's? I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're referring to, help me out.

[IDemo]

46. Sounds like an attempt at a bridge circuit, but not quite?

[karlrschneider]

48. Could be since a bridge is a full-wave rectifier that needs less filtering.

I don't really know though.

[mindwalker_i]

51. Re: Equations

A long time ago, I read a web page that described why half the energy is lost to resistance when just connecting a voltage straight. I can't find it now, but look at an RC circuit, get the equation for current, and multiply that by R. Then integrate over 5 time constants, and it will be the energy of the capacitor, which is 1/2 * C * V^2.

In order to solve the circuit with an inductor, I did an s-domain transformation (been a while since I had done that too), and solved the equations for current and voltage. I might be able to dig that up, but there's no way in hell I can solve it tonight :) It's kind of cool because the final voltage of the cap is twice the DC voltage, or if you transfer between two caps, the voltage will swing from one side to the other with the inductor.

Think of it this way. If you have a big-ass supercapacitor charged to, say, 2 volts, then connect it to a small cap through an inductor, the voltage difference will drive the current to slope up through the inductor. After the voltages are equal, the current will continue to flow in the same direction but it will slope down. Eventually the current crosses zero then goes backwards. This will result in sinusoidal oscillation being damped by the resistance in the circuit.

Because the current stays relatively low, the losses to line resistance are kept low as well. Having a lower inductance and hence a higher frequency makes for more efficient energy transfers as I remember. There is definitely a limit to how much energy per unit time (namely power) can be transferred, and that also depends on the voltage difference between the caps. Having a series of small caps which can each be charged independently allows the voltage of the super cap (which is low) to be boosted across the little caps. That could then feed a medium cap which drives the motor. There are lots of parameters that can be optimized.

-mwalker

[karlrschneider]

59. Well it's not 'half'. And you're basically describing, as I'm seeing it, a voltage multiplier

like a doubler circuit that requires a rectifier. (Or a tripler, etc....there's no theoretical limit to the stages but it's a diminishing returns kind of application.)

Please don't take offense, but I think you have AC and DC hopelessly confused here. Maybe I'm not grasping your point but here are a couple of things to keep in mind: AC will "pass through" a capacitor (to some extent depending on the circuit parameters), and DC will not (although you might argue that it does for a very short instant while the cap charges), and AC mostly does NOT go through an inductor (again, depending on frequency, inductance, etc.) and DC pretty much ignores inductors. (That's why we always put "RF chokes - low value inductors- in the plate circuits of transmitting tubes, for example)

I've read your next-to-last paragraph 10 times and I still don't get how you figure the current "goes backwards". Like I said, maybe I'm just not grasping your theory here...of course the phenomenon of induced voltage by magnetic field collapse is well known, after all that's why transformers work. I guess I'm missing something here.

[mindwalker_i]

68. Re: AC and DC confused

Not really. The supercap I looked at a year ago could only be charged to a little over a volt, but that turned out to be a lot of energy. Electric motors don't run on a volt, so I was thinking of how to step up that voltage. Also, I was trying to figure out a way to efficiently transfer energy from the supercap to other capacitors, and switching connections between them through an inductor looked like a good way to do it.

I'm not thinking in terms of AC as in a sinusoidal AC voltage/current. This is purely capacitor charge and discharge. The (underdapmed) sinusoidal comes in as a result of the transfer through inductor, and that's cut off in half a cycle. All this is is an efficient way to transfer chunks of energy. The supercap couldn't hold enough to make even something like a bicycle have enough range to be useful. That might change in the near future, but I'm not betting on it.

-mwalker

[IDemo]

69. Looks like they are being used primarily for regen-braking for now

http://www.maxwell.com/ultracapacitors/news-events/release.asp?PRID=243

http://www.maxwell.com/ultracapacitors/products/modules/bmod0018-390v.asp

[AndyTiedye]

57. Use a Current Regulator With That

[JacquesMolay]

13. Only the rail car can save what's left of it.

We're going to have to bring back rail. It's going to be difficult, especially in the South where I live.

[karlrschneider]

52. The thing is, it wouldn't really be that difficult. Most of the hard problems are already solved.

There are half a million miles of 'right of way' existing now. Every inch of track could be repaired/refurbished/replaced for what we're spending in Iraq in one month. You can carry 1000 people from city to city with a decent rail system for WAY less fuel than 10 airplanes and damn near as quickly, especially considering the travel time to and from the airports, and it's also difficult to hijack a train! Hell, almost FORTY YEARS AGO I travelled from Tokyo to Osaka on the 'bullet' (Shinkansen) train at nearly 200 MPH!

AAARRRGGGHHHHH

[AndyTiedye]

58. I Suspect We Could Have Had State-of-the-Art Rail Nationwide for What We Have Been Wasting In Iraq

[karlrschneider]

60. For half a trillion dollars? (by 'conservative estimates)? Yeah, I sure think so!

It's hard to believe how goddamn stupid we Murkins really are, collectively.

[AndyTiedye]

67. We're Not. The Regime Is

A majority opposed this war before it even started.

[chknltl]

66. May I further suggest car ferries on rail.

I live in Tacoma Wa. about 35 miles to the north is Seattle. Linking the two is I-5. Each day a brazillion cars commute back and forth between the two. There is also a fine rail system between the two with a commuter train system. And yet our I-5 is horribly overburdened twice daily with cars. Well there are ferries that take cars to and fro on nearby Puget Sound, why not adopt this to our rail system. Instead of driving down I-5, one would drive down to the rail ferry, drive their car into position onto perhaps a triple decker rail-car, then turn the engine off and grab a newspaper!

After the bugs were worked out here, after it was in operation for a period, the system could be extended up and down the I-5 corridor from Everett Wa to San Diego Ca. In the expanded system there would be local commuter group of car ferries and a longer distance one. How nice would it be to drive on in Portland, and drive off in San Francisco. Eventually the system could be used nationwide.

No, I do not have any suggestions to the particulars and I agree beforehand that there are less zainy systems that we should be exploring but Americans seem to be keen on taking THEIR OWN cars everywhere, which is the inspiration for my suggestion.

[AndyTiedye]

53. Are The Tracks Still There?

[karlrschneider]

54. See my post # 52

;-)

[Speck Tater]

14. Another ridiculous red hearing

You still need a source of energy to compress the air. And there are losses in transmitting that energy, losses in compressing the air, losses in using the air to run the engine. Sure it works, but it costs way more energy than it returns. It's just another imaginative way to actually consume MORE net energy to run a vehicle.

I think that knowledge the laws of thermodynamics should be mandatory for citizenship.

[Vilis Veritas]

17. So is hydrogen out of the question too, doc?

Seems like I have been reading a lot about hydrogen lately...although not in the MSM...just curious.

I am not a scientist and you claim that in order to be a citizen..well, I hope I can stay a while...

Peace, I hope...:-)

[karlrschneider]

23. Hydrogen is absolutely a pollution-free and abundant fuel! BUT

(you knew there'd be a 'but', right? :-))

Separating it out of water takes almost as much energy as we can get back from it.* Electrolysis using solar cells can do it but if you calculate the energy needed to manufacture them, we're more or less back to a zero-sum endeavor.
And of course you can get hydrogen from hydrocarbons (how amazing is -that-?) but that's even LESS efficient!

edit for the *

Actually it takes -more-, I meant that the production of elemental oxygen is a beneficial side effect.

[Vilis Veritas]

31. Thanks. I have been web-searching a lot recently...

Turned up some gee whiz stuff, like toys that run on fuels cell and solar, coming soon (I got one on order from the wife's parents in China as soon as they come out)...but, I am always willing to part with a few bucks to check stuff out and besides a toy car that runs on a fuel cell..way cool.

Thanks again and feel free to poke my ribs and tell me I am dumb for even buying it, but I can not resist...

http://news.com.com/Hydrogen+power+for+bikes+and+toy+cars/2100-11392_3-6177762.html

I really want the bike, but I am at a loss as to how to get it over here...;-)

Peace

Edited for spelling and to add a stoopid question...what about low energy transformation using a joe cell? Are they real or just more fluff...seems like there is a lot of mumbo-jumbo terminology when joe cell proponents talk of how they do it?

Thanks...

[karlrschneider]

34. I never heard of a "Joe Cell" until I read your post but I did a quick google and found

http://www.thejoecell.com/

Which is probably one of the most insane and moronic things I've ever read on the www and that's saying something.
But there's nothing wrong with a fuel cell powered anything...it just isn't magic, or a panacea. NASA's shuttles have used them for 40 years. :-)

[Vilis Veritas]

40. That's the site...sounds like alchemy to me...want to make some gold?

:rofl:

There are other sites that seem more credible and then there is this one: http://www.hydrogengarage.com/

Fun reading and I still like the hydrogen toy car...!

Peace.

[karlrschneider]

42. ARRGH...I couldn't go past the front page on that one.

:eyes: :silly:

Here's some cool advice: You can be a millionaire EASY!


First, get a million dollars.


:rofl:

[Vilis Veritas]

45. I know..I just googled and found it and pasted it in there for laughs...

It obviously worked. ;-)

The web is both good and bad...but sometimes it is down right hilarious.

The storefront to those guys is priceless.

Peace.

[karlrschneider]

49. It is indeed and that one was good for a cackle. Thanks!

:D

[eggman67]

71. For some really whacked out pseudoscience go to

http://www.alexchiu.com/

A true nutball's nutball!

Hours of entertainment

[Bennyboy]

19. It's "herring" smart guy!

Like the fish you know.

Anyways, these cars do not polllute. And that is the one thing that is most important. They do not rely on oil of fossil fuels to run. And that seems to me to be important too.

[karlrschneider]

27. See post #23. And welcome to DU

:D

[jmowreader]

37. They're actually COMPLETELY dependent on fossil fuel to run

These cars run on compressed air. To paraphrase Emeril, I don't know where you get your air but where I get mine, it doesn't come compressed.

Compressors either run on electricity, which is generated by oil/coal/natural gas/whatever, or they have engines that run on some sort of fuel.

The same argument applies to these cars as it does to hydrogen cars: if you're going to use a shitload of electricity to make whatever "alternative fuel" you're using to run the car, why not just put electric motors in the car?

[karlrschneider]

21. But don't you know the laws of thermodynamics make evolution impossible?

glurk

[LSK]

24. now THATS a red herring!!!

:rofl:

[karlrschneider]

25. Speaking of which, just where the hell did that expression come from anyway???

:wtf:

[LSK]

29. when in doubt, wikipedia

The phrase may relate to saving a hunted fox by dragging a smoked herring across its trail. This act would create a diversion through the strong smell of kippers. The Oxford English Dictionary records its first written use occurring in 1686 in this context: "To draw a red herring across the track". Michael Quinion says it is unlikely that any such act ever occurred.<1>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

[karlrschneider]

47. Oddly, that actually triggered a long-lost memory in my tired old brain!

I believe I did hear that story long ago. I suspect Michael Quinion doesn't know the English very well, it sounds exactly like something they would have done 400 years ago. Or last week. :D

But they should have used anchovies, they have a more er, detectable aroma. :rofl:


"Your story is just an ANCHOVY!!" hahahahahahaha

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

56. What if the energy to compress the air comes from nuclear power?

Or even solar power or wind power converted to electricity? I don't know, but maybe the air car's purpose is simply to offer a vehicle that doesn't depend on fossil fuels. It seems that the air car's engine is very similar to an internal combustion engine and sounds the same. After all, the burning of gas is what compresses the air in the piston that drives our cars now, and the exploration for and extraction of petroleum and its refinement into gas is also getting more and more inefficient as time goes on.

[karlrschneider]

62. Here's one way to look at this scenario: It takes about 7 or 8 horsepower

to overcome air and rolling resistance in a smallish car on a level road at somewhere around 30 MPH.* (One HP is 550 lb-ft per second...which means it's enough energy to lift a 550 pound weight a foot each second...which interestingly is about what a normal horse can actually do) :-)

* Another interesting fact is that the -weight- of the car doesn't matter at all if everything else is the same!

Powering all the cars on the planet by passive means (direct conversion of sunlight to electric, wind, tides, etc.) isn't even close to being feasible. The bottom line is this: ALL our energy comes from (or has come from) our star. We have no means of 'making' it from any other source.

[Vilis Veritas]

15. Cars running on water/air...are not far off

If they can make a toy car, this is not far off. Water, air who cares so long as it breaks the dependence, right?

http://www.gearlog.com/2007/07/hydrogenpowered_toys_isnt_that.php

http://news.com.com/Hydrogen+power+for+bikes+and+toy+cars/2100-11392_3-6177762.html

I am going to get one of these as soon as I can, got a request in with my wife's parents back in China...;-)

Peace

[TreasonousBastard]

16. These guys at MDI have designed...

compressed air cars now, with little compressors on board for range:

http://www.mdi.lu/eng/affiche_eng.php?page=accueil

It did sound a little too much like perpetual motion, and most of these things are tiny, but it's still a great idea, )if it really works) and they sell for as little as 5,000 Euros.

[karlrschneider]

30. Yeah, yeah...it's another 100 MPG carburetor scam.

It ain't gonna work. Nunca. Never. Nyet.

[DeSwiss]

35. Excellent post!

:D

K&R!!!

[NuttyFluffers]

63. have they started making them yet? saw this a few years ago

i wonder if they got the money to actually start selling stuff. it's been a while since i checked up on them.

naturally, unlike a lot of posters here, i don't read unreasonable expectations from this technology, or its website. i remember the "it's not a perpetual motion machine," "remember the law of thermodynamics!" and all those arguments last time this topic came up years ago. but it's such a red herring about this discussion. it's just another method to store energy and crank a motor -- nothing more.

of course they do need to brand themselves as 'greener than thou' but why should i fault them for advertising. half the people in the world can't figure out most of the science, nor do they need to to live their lives, so i'm quite lenient about most of the articles and marketing of this. i need to compare torque graphs, but i have no outrageous expectations of this technology. i'm also curious what ratio of energy loss over time is compared to this air tank versus various alloy batteries.

an interesting note is apparently an indian company has allied with them, which wasn't occuring last time i came across this company. maybe something inexpensive and useful will come out of this.

[The Doctor.]

64. kick

[Orsino]

70. What runs the compressor?

The job's not done until a renewable energy source is charging the cars.

[eppur_se_muova]

72. Air is NOT the power source. Compression is only a means of energy storage.

The real power has to come from some other source.

Not that this isn't a (potentially) great idea, I just wish journalists would get those facts straight.