Josh Marshall Considers the Impeachment Question

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

Good post by Josh Marshall of Talking Point Memo

As regular readers of this site know, I've always been against the movement to impeach President Bush. I take this position not because he hasn't done plenty to merit it. My reasons are practical. Minor reasons are that it's late in the president's term and that I think impeachment itself is toxic to our political system -- though it can be less toxic than the high officials thrown from office. My key reason, though, is that Congress at present can't even get to the relatively low threshold of votes required to force the president's hand on Iraq. So to use an analogy which for whatever reason springs readily to my mind at this point in my life, coming out for impeachment under present circumstances is like being so frustrated that you can't crawl that you come out for walking. In various ways it seems to elevate psychic satisfactions above progress on changing a series of policies that are doing daily and almost vast damage to our country. Find me seventeen Republican senators who are going to convict President Bush in a senate trial.

Buuut . . .


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/015836.php

Keep reading.

[babylonsister]

1. Buuut...

(from Josh)

snip//

Without going into all the specifics, I think we are now moving into a situation where the White House, on various fronts, is openly ignoring the constitution, acting as though not just the law but the constitution itself, which is the fundamental law from which all the statutes gain their force and legitimacy, doesn't apply to them.

If that is allowed to continue, the defiance will congeal into precedent. And the whole structure of our system of government will be permanently changed.

Whether because of prudence and pragmatism or mere intellectual inertia, I still have the same opinion on the big question: impeachment. But I think we're moving on to dangerous ground right now, more so than some of us realize. And I'm less sure now under these circumstances that operating by rules of 'normal politics' is justifiable or acquits us of our duty to our country.

[Phredicles]

3. "If that is allowed to continue, the defiance will congeal into precedent."

This is the bottom line. And this is why a lot of us are beside ourselves that so many otherwise good Democrats insist on acting like they're dealing with just another sucky president.

[dorkulon]

8. Precisely. We are setting an ugly precedent.

He's right on both counts, unfortunately.

[rurallib]

2. Surprised he didn't cite the Libby situation

Which was done to save his own ass and done as a spit in the eye of every American.

[KharmaTrain]

4. Amen, Josh...But This Isn't What People Want To Hear

Yep...find me 17 Repugnicans and then let's impeach. Find me 8 more Repugnican votes and let's ram cloiture up their asses.

I think about how Repugnican trolls around here must laugh at the time wasted here on what I call the "less filling/taste great" debate regarding impeachment, since they know, as Josh states as well...an impeachment without a conviction is no impeachment at all...if anything it could be used as an exoneration of this regime.

Again, I ask...and still haven't heard anyone bite at this..."how will an impeachment now bring our troops home one day sooner"? I'm still waiting....

[Captain Hilts]

5. Yep. That's the way it is. There aren't 17 Republican votes. nt

[babylonsister]

6. You didn't read the rest of it; he's scared, too. nt

[KharmaTrain]

7. His Fears Are All Our Fears...

...and what options are there? That's why so many of us are so frustrated right now.

He asks a question that we need to really examine:

And I'm less sure now under these circumstances that operating by rules of 'normal politics' is justifiable or acquits us of our duty to our country.

Yes...precedent is a problem here...a real problem. But so is a failed impeachment. Again...what are the options?

[babylonsister]

9. The fact that the rethugs are so stalwart is troubling to me, nay,

annoying as hell. What are they really there for if not to right wrongs for their constituents? Are all of us on DU so disillusioned that we're dreaming this corrupt, criminal admin is being given a green light, when they are so wrong?
I really can't believe Congress hasn't heard us. There ARE some people without computers.

[KharmaTrain]

10. Crooks All Hang Together...And Then Hang Separately

This regime and its enablers resemble more and more like the mafia every day. There's some "Omerata"...or secret oath these goons are taking to make sure they get RNC money and avoid right wing primary challengers. My bets are Rove has some real nasty pictures of Specter with a ferret and Rudy in a dress (ooops...that one got out) or some other blackmail that keeps the "moderates" in line...or at least I would hope this is the case.

When I visioned the Democrats taking control last November, it was of the crew in the boiler room finally getting a chance to look at the ship's bridge. First they stood in awe at the size of the thing...and then the question was "how do you steer this thing"...it's taken 6 months just to convince many of these people that they're no longer in the minority and it's OK to come out of the hole.

I'm hoping that many of these Congresscritters get an earful when they're on their next break. I double hope this is the case for the WINO Repugnicans who say one thing into a microphone and vote the other way. These people must be badgered, shamed and forced to explain why they say one thing and do another.

The ultimate problem is many people don't give a shit. They're more worried about paying bills or watching American Idol or something/anything that pay attention to politics. The bitter partisanship of the past decade has numbed many into just tuning out completely...Mike Malloy talks about this all the time...that's allowed for this country to be "dumbed and numbed" and provide the cover for all this criminality.

Hang in there...the truth always sets us free.

:toast:

[KoKo]

11. When very grounded folks like Josh get worried then we know things are bad....

and the worry is spreading.

I read that article about Joshua Frank who wrote 'Bush on the Couch' (think that was title) who gave a snip of his new article about how fragile Bush's mental health is now that his poll numbers are down.

I started to think the last few days that maybe our Congress is very worried about the mental states of both Bush and Cheney. They might have to walk very carefully when they've got a criminal cabal that is so entrenched at this point that it's reinforcing the dangerous delusions of each of them. Anyone who watched the whole performance of Gonzo yesterday had to come away thinking he's as mentally deranged as Bush and that he so far gone he isn't even aware of what is truth and what is a lie.

These are dangerous people. And, there are more of them infected with whatever has driven these hard core Right Repugs all these years in Senate and House. The Conyers hearing today revealed how many on House Judiciary Committee are border line crazy with their fanatical conservatism who blame everything on Bill Clinton and can't seem to get over their hatred of him.

Getting these people out will be much harder than we all thought....but if we don't get them out...I shudder to think what they will do next. What can we do? No one seems to know.

[Me.]

14. When Richard Mellon Scaife Says In His Paper That He Thinks * Is Unhinged

we've passed the worry point and need to move onto the nuclear option.

[KharmaTrain]

16. It's So "In Your Face"

I think the more alarming thing is how overt and cavailere this regime is with flaunting their criminality. What's really distressing is the more we learn and expose, the more obstinate they get. It's like they're daring all and laughing in our faces.

You nailed it on the mindset of the Repugnicans...ALL of 'em...who either are willingly complicit in this criminal enterprise or scared or compromised to clean up their own house. Now that's even scarier.

Several years ago, I was ready to hit the streets and go where the protests were...but there weren't any. Instead there are protests in John Conyers office? Somewhere there are some 60s protest leaders shaking their heads and saying we deserve to lose what little else we have left.

:hi:

[KoKo]

17. Kharma...when we "hit the streets" the media would take it seriously

wouldn't cover it and even people here on DU criticized the huge marches because they didn't agree with the organizer. We did vigils we stood on street corners here in NC and in Cities across the US and we have to hope that it made some difference. If you are suggesting going with pitchforks to storm the White House...they would "take us out." With poll numbers as low as Nixon...they still don't get the message because they don't care.

:-( It's up to Congress and the Judicial (HA) to bring them to task.

[mzmolly]

15. Indeed we can't confuse bringing home the troops with impeachment.

:hi:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. "Find me seventeen Republican senators...

and one Independent Democrat.<sic>"

[Kool Kitty]

13. AAAARRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!

MY EYES!!!!!! Geez, that pic needs a warning. I don't know why the Dems don't say, "You shouldn't want the President to have this much power. Imagine if a DEMOCRATIC president had this much power." Betcha the Repugs would step all over each other to sign up for impeachment.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. Sorry.

:blush:

Per your scenario, it would have happened five years ago.

[bryant69]

18. Good article

Thanks for posting.

Bryant
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