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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 07:10 AM
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War Crimes and the White House (WAPO)
War Crimes and the White House
The Dishonor in a Tortured New 'Interpretation' of the Geneva Conventions

By P.X. Kelley and Robert F. Turner
Thursday, July 26, 2007; Page A21

One of us was appointed commandant of the Marine Corps by President Ronald Reagan; the other served as a lawyer in the Reagan White House and has vigorously defended the constitutionality of warrantless National Security Agency wiretaps, presidential signing statements and many other controversial aspects of the war on terrorism. But we cannot in good conscience defend a decision that we believe has compromised our national honor and that may well promote the commission of war crimes by Americans and place at risk the welfare of captured American military forces for generations to come.

.........................

Last Friday, the White House issued an executive order attempting to "interpret" Common Article 3 with respect to a controversial CIA interrogation program. The order declares that the CIA program "fully complies with the obligations of the United States under Common Article 3," provided that its interrogation techniques do not violate existing federal statutes (prohibiting such things as torture, mutilation or maiming) and do not constitute "willful and outrageous acts of personal abuse done for the purpose of humiliating or degrading the individual in a manner so serious that any reasonable person, considering the circumstances, would deem the acts to be beyond the bounds of human decency."

In other words, as long as the intent of the abuse is to gather intelligence or to prevent future attacks, and the abuse is not "done for the purpose of humiliating or degrading the individual" -- even if that is an inevitable consequence -- the president has given the CIA carte blanche to engage in "willful and outrageous acts of personal abuse."

............

The Geneva Conventions provide important protections to our own military forces when we send them into harm's way. Our troops deserve those protections, and we betray their interests when we gratuitously "interpret" key provisions of the conventions in a manner likely to undermine their effectiveness. Policymakers should also keep in mind that violations of Common Article 3 are "war crimes" for which everyone involved -- potentially up to and including the president of the United States -- may be tried in any of the other 193 countries that are parties to the conventions.

more at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/25/AR2007072501881.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
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Klukie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 07:23 AM
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1. I am so sick and tired of their bullshit interpretations....
When will the legal scholars get together and take on these interpretations? I would love to see those in the justice dept. start a revolution against the administrations manipulation of the law. If the justice dept. would march on capitol hill mabye we would get somewhere.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Even in the WH, the fascist "unitary" fantasy has already been rejected.
Edited on Thu Jul-26-07 12:45 PM by pat_k
The fascist fantasy that the Office of the President has unitary authoritarian power to violate the law and the Constitution has not only been rejected throughout the legal establishment, even the fascist promoters within the White House are abandoning the so-called "doctrine."

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/06/21/2011">Imperial Presidency Declared Null and Void
by Sidney Blumenthal


. . .One of the key framers of the war paradigm (in which the president in his wartime capacity as commander in chief makes and enforces laws as he sees fit, overriding the constitutional system of checks and balances), who a year ago was arguing vehemently for pushing its boundaries, confesses that he has abandoned his belief in the whole doctrine, though he refuses to say so publicly. . . Yet another Bush legal official, even now at the commanding heights of power, admits that the administration’s policies are largely discredited. In its defense, he says without a hint of irony or sarcasm, "Not everything we’ve done has been illegal." He adds, "Not everything has been ultra vires" — a legal term referring to actions beyond the law.

The resistance within the administration to Bush’s torture policy, the ultimate expression of the war paradigm, has come to an end through attrition and exhaustion. . .


Bushncheney's war on the Constitution is plain for all to see. They subverted the Constitution and order Americans to engage in torture. We rarely hear the intolerable realities denied by Congressional leadership -- the opposite in fact. When Democratic Presidential candidates and Congressional leaders claim they will stop the abusive violations in 2009 if give them the WH, they are telling us that they KNOW the acts are abusive violations. A President who arrogates the power to "give back" our inviolable rights is just as bad as arrogating the power to violate them. We must ENFORCE our rights. When officials prove they could care less if they are "exposed;" when they commit their crimes in plain sight, only impeachment and removal is the ONLY means to enforce our law.

By refusing to impeach -- a moral imperative given their oath to "defend" and their knowledge of the "attack" -- Members of Congress are, in a very real way, doing more to destroy our Constitutional democracy than Bush and Cheney ever could. Violators of our laws do not destroy our legal system. Systems are driven by people. A system is destroyed when the people we charge with critical duties within the system refuse to carry out those duties.

The leadership's failure to immediately impeach, and the refusal of the Members to demand that they do so, is not grounded in the belief that the fascist fantasy of unitary power has merit. The assumption that impeachment can't/won't/shouldn't happen is an irrationally circular one that is unquestioned within the beltway. Impeachment can't/won't/shouldn't happen because "everybody knows" it is simply outside the realm of possibility. The shared delusion is nearly universal throughout the beltway and therefore unquestioned within that world (although there are signs that the reality being injected by outsiders is beginning to shake the delusion). Their http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Senator/14">false memes have been constructed to explain a belief that is axiomatic in their world.

The fear that "something bad" will happen (e.g., the backlash beast will get us) appears to have short-circuited all rational thought on the subject. Since irrational fear appears to be the driving force, "http://journals.democraticunderground.com/pat_k/23">impeachophobia" is a useful label. Phobics are typically aware that their fear is irrational. Impeachophobics aren't. They are blind to the irrationality and destructiveness of their refusal to impeach. The bogus "reasons" they cook up to explain their self-destructive avoidance differ in character, but they are just as bogus as the "reasons" an addict cooks up to explain their self-destructive drug seeking.

Dealing with an impeachophobic is frustrating and heartbreaking. But we know impeachophobia can be cured because it is being cured. We are seeing and rank and file Democrats "out here" conquer impeachophobia and become "impeachers" everyday. Simply being exposed to impeachment advocates has been enough for some.

Whatever position or office -- member of the press, Member of Congress, staffer, activist, citizen -- impeachophobes are all just people and people can be reached.

For more on the subject, see http://journals.democraticunderground.com/pat_k/23">Impeachophobia.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. k/r
for all the good it will do

too many Americans just don't care
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. "Do unto others..."
Yeah, when Jesus comes back, they're in for a whoopin.

There is nothing in the world I detest more than people who do evil deeds and claim the protection of their religious beliefs. I wish there was a hell.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. They just don't call it torture anymore
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
5. Hamdan Ruling: Years of War Crimes ALREADY Committed
Predictably, after the ruling, the Euphemedia and WH went into a flurry of distraction claiming that it was "all about tribunal tinkering."

Like with the lack of evidence of WMD, they simply ignored the rotting, tortured elephant carcass in the national living room.

And the war crimes laws are not just some touchy-feely international treaty obligation (that neocons revel in dismissing). These are violations of good old US Federal Law (US Code: Title 18, 2441 War Crimes).

Moreover, failure of government officials (i.e., the new Dem majority) to report and act to stop torture immediately (i.e., via impeach, remove, prosecute, punish) is a war crime in itself.

We don't get to "make the rules" on this stuff. They've been in place for decades. Generations of Americans fought and died to forge them.

---
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Frustratedlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
6. Why have they vigorously defended these?
"...has vigorously defended the constitutionality of warrantless National Security Agency wiretaps, presidential signing statements and many other controversial aspects of the war on terrorism."

Can they honestly say they agree with what Bush is doing in regards to the above? Even after seeing how he has abused them?

Hmmmm!
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