Question for old-timers: Was Watergate anything like this?

[CatWoman]

The lying, the disdain and contempt for congress, the stonewalling, the obstruction, the sheer bullshit of it all?

This administration is really pissing me off!!!! Was Nixon as much of a smug asshole as Bush?

In 1972 I was 16 years old and really didn't pay attention to such things.

[Atman]

1. No

During Watergate, the Senate actually conducted real investigations, and the press covered them all 24/7 and pre-empted every program on the dial...all three channels! :rofl:

.

[Canuckistanian]

2. And every revelation was aired as soon as it became known

Not six months or even years after the actual event.

[shraby]

5. You had 3 channels??? I had 2, but as you said

they covered it properly.

[goclark]

149. I would listen to the hearings on my car radio at lunch time

It was so riveting, I would always be late getting back to my job.

I don't remember feeling that the Republicans were as STUPID as they are now.

Congress had a spine.

The wheels did turn slowly however.

The Watergate Break In was a real turning point.

Martha Mitchell spilling the beans was fantastic!

John Dean was Awesome! :bounce:

To see Nixon with his teardrops as he waved from the helicopter was pure American History!

Please let it happen again. I would give my bank account to see GW fall up the steps drunk with Condi crying behind him! :bounce:

[mondo joe]

6. Even Match Game!

It's true!!!

[blondeatlast]

12. That's how the bastids sucked this 13 year old into being a polical wonk.

If it was so damn important they pre-empted Match Game, I figured that perhaps I should pay attention.

That, and my odd schoolgirl crush on John Dean (not kidding, either...).

[mondo joe]

14. I just kept waiting for Brett Sommers to show up.

:shrug:

[blondeatlast]

21. I'd have liked to see her question Haldeman and Ehrlichmann...

:rofl:

[GreenPartyVoter]

30. That coulda been good! Then Nipsy Russell could have made up a

poem to explain it all.

[blondeatlast]

46. There once were two tricksters

Who worked for a Dickster.

All fell to a deep-voiced tipster...

[GreenPartyVoter]

65. I can really hear him saying that :^D

[ananda]

82. Oh if we're doing Nixon jokes..

Nixon had to see Deep Throat three times before he could get it down pat. (really great one!)

Don't change Dicks in the middle of a screw, re-elect Nixon in 72.


These were grafitti written on the door of the third floor women's bathroom of Rice Library .. back in the day.. gone now.

[blondeatlast]

87. Good ones! nt

[eridani]

125. I still have a "Don't change Dicks in the middle of a screw" bumpersticker! n/t

[eridani]

129. You forgot one

"Impeach the Cox Sacker"

[Manifestor_of_Light]

138. Ah yes!! Rice graffiti!

They put up Formica walls in the bathrooms in Valhalla so you can't scribble on them!!

I went to a wedding at Valhalla on 7-7-07. It was very creative.

Best graffito I saw in the ladies' room at Valhalla: Heisenberg might have sat here.

:rofl: :rofl:

Another Nixon joke: They couldn't put him on Mount Rushmore because they don't have room for two faces.

Yet another Nixon joke: They made a stamp with Nixon's face on it, but everybody spits on the wrong side!!!

Yet another Nixon joke: Nixon has written his autobiography. It has eighteen and a half blank pages in it!!! (Referring to the famous eighteen-1/2 minute gap in one of the tapes)

:rofl: :rofl:

[troubleinwinter]

117. Remember the old song...

"We're Haldeman, Erlichmann, Mitchell and Dean..." People everywhere went around singing it.

We're Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Mitchell and Dean
The way we've been treated is really obscene
To think that a bug worth hardly a shrug
Could end up by getting us tossed in the jug

We all got the gate for no reason or rhyme
You'd think we'd committed some horrible crime
Our minds may be dirty, but our hands are clean
We're Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Mitchell and Dean

We're Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Mitchell and Dean
Our job was to see that the White House stayed green
We might have had flaws, like bending the laws
But God only knows it was for a good cause

There's no power shortage where we were concerned
And what little profit resulted, we earned
For lovlier fellows you never have seen
Than Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Mitchell and Dean

We're Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Mitchell and Dean
Our past has been fat, but the future looks lean
With backs to the wall, we're taking the fall
But dammit, we only robbed Pete to pay Paul

Just when we getting to be well-to-do
The Watergate turned into our Waterloo
And now everybody is out to demean
Poor Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Mitchell and Dean

Yes, we're Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Mitchell and Dean
We're perfectly willing to spill every bean
We've nothing to hide, with God on our side
He knows we were only along for the ride

But so it won't come as terrible blow
There's one little thing that we think you should know
Whatever we say isn't quite what we mean
We're Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Mitchell and Dean

Oh yes, we're Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Mitchell and Dean
Things won't be the same when we're gone from the scene
But people will still recall with a thrill
Our sell-out performance on Capitol Hill

It just isn't fair to take all of the blame
When all we were doing was playing the game
Now all of Washington's caught in between
Haldeman, Ehrlichman, Mitchell and Dean
.......................................

Eventually came this- Nixon's resignation speech excerpts:

<snip>
In the past few days, however, it has become evident to me that I no longer have a strong enough political base in the Congress to justify continuing that effort. As long as there was such a base, I felt strongly that it was necessary to see the constitutional process through to its conclusion, that to do otherwise would be unfaithful to the spirit of that deliberately difficult process and a dangerously destabilizing precedent for the future.

But with the disappearance of that base, I now believe that the constitutional purpose has been served, and there is no longer a need for the process to be prolonged.

I would have preferred to carry through to the finish whatever the personal agony it would have involved, and my family unanimously urged me to do so. But the interests of the Nation must always come before any personal considerations.

From the discussions I have had with Congressional and other leaders, I have concluded that because of the Watergate matter I might not have the support of the Congress that I would consider necessary to back the very difficult decisions and carry out the duties of this office in the way the interests of the Nation would require.

I have never been a quitter. To leave office before my term is completed is abhorrent to every instinct in my body. But as President, I must put the interest of America first. America needs a full-time President and a full-time Congress, particularly at this time with problems we face at home and abroad.

To continue to fight through the months ahead for my personal vindication would almost totally absorb the time and attention of both the President and the Congress in a period when our entire focus should be on the great issues of peace abroad and prosperity without inflation at home.

Therefore, I shall resign the Presidency effective at noon tomorrow. Vice President Ford will be sworn in as President at that hour in this office.
<snip>

Nixon was not impeached. It took no time to impeach him, it took no votes.

[JPettus]

140. That's True, he wasn't impeached

He quit when he saw the votes were there to remove him, so that he could keep his pension.

I think the biggest problem now is that the Republicans in Congress have no loyalty to their constituents or the law, only to the National Party.

I really think the GOP expected Clinton to resign rather than go through the process. Bush and Cheney certainly would go through the process and keep looking for something to hold over the heads of anyone who might vote to remove them, particularly on the GOP side of the aisle.

[ariesgem]

154. My only hope is that history repeats itself.

[troubleinwinter]

157. What a great pic.

The soldiers do not face him and look like they are there purely to be sure he doesn't get off that copter.

[wryter2000]

104. It was mesmerizing

I was on leave from work and watched the whole thing. Talk about your must see TV! Remember Barbara Jordan? She was amazing.

[woodsprite]

9. I was 9 and can remember my grandmom being glad when it

was over so she could get back to watching her 'soaps' ;) I can also remember my parents being on edge - Not knowing how it would affect the running of the US.

[NewJeffCT]

32. I was born in 1966 -

And I remember being upset that my afternoon cartoons were interrupted for Watergate - so, I learned to dislike Nixon from a young age and was on my way to being a liberal.

[bdamomma]

13. oh yes, at least we had the media on our side back then.

[Atman]

22. By "our side," I'm assuming you mean "the people."

Just to be clear. This is one of those comments the freeps love to pick up on..."See, they admit the press is liberal and on the Democratic side!" It wasn't so back then. The press was actually full of seasoned journalists who actually were quite intent on investigating stories, not just reading White House press releases.

.

[bdamomma]

36. yes, the people's side.

[wryter2000]

106. Remember Daniel Schorr reading the enemies list?

I can still picture him, standing in the hallway with the list in hand. He didn't at an eyelash when he read his own name. :rofl:

Yup, we had a medial that did its job back then.

[global1]

15. We Had Real Investigative Reporters At That Time That Continued To.....

probe and ask questions. They helped unpeel the layers of the onion that ultimately did in Nixon. We had an internal staffer - John Dean - that cooperated with the investigations and told the truth. We had Repugs at the time that put pressure on Nixon. We had Dems at the time that put Country and Constitution before their political careers (note that doing that enhanced their political careers).

Today - no real investigative reporters in MSM. Gutless Repugs and Dems. All just a bunch of toadies. And no one in the administration close to the pResident with guts to tell the truth.

It's sad how times have changed.

[Le Taz Hot]

51. Excellent summary.

Additionally, the SC was filled with jurists, not partisan hacks.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

61. But those investigative reporters were in the WP METRO division, not in the WH press

corps.

It just so happened that the key event that led to staffing the Watergate story was a burglary, assigned to young local-beat reporters who covered local burglaries. Much of the story was contained within the purely-local Metro Section of the daily Washington Post. See the WP Watergate timeline with free links to those contemporary stories, at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/watergate/timeline.html .

IIRC from 'All the President's Men', for some periods of time the Watergate story was buried deep inside the paper, in the prececessor of the "Style" section.

IMO, if the key event in Watergate had led to staffing the story with WP national reporters, the way the NY Times staffed the story with their national reporters, Nixon's coverup most likely would have succeeded. IMO national-beat reporters are too afraid of losing their WH press passes or becoming too controversial for their official sources, risking their fairly lavish mealtickets.

[G_j]

94. yep, just a bunch of toadies alright!

things have really gone to hell, even during Iran/Contra the press and our "leaders" had become tools. It has just gone downhill from there.

[EVDebs]

132. Woodward , who now writes Bush hagiography ?

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/sonoma/07.03.97/scoop-9727.html

and

http://www.ctka.net/pr196-woodward.html

should give you some food for thought, eh ?

[Serial Mom]

148. and now, even Woodward, one the reporters that broke Nixon

has become more concerned with money... he uncovered things, but saved it all for a book so he could make money on it instead of daily, front page publishing of the lies, the BS, the illegal use of the executive powers (as was done during Watergate)!

The bottom line means more to the BFEE, the administration, the MSM, the networks, and the reporters than the truth.

[PA Democrat]

33. I recall watching the hearings on TV during Social Studies class.

My memory is that there was much more coverage by the media.

[MNDemNY]

77. And the "soap opera" ladies were pissed!

[AspenRose]

Now THAT I remember....kept interfering with my afternoon cartoons.

;-)

[Hepburn]

91. This old timer would agree with your statement.

Watergate was conducted like a REAL investigation.

[roguevalley]

112. yeah. remember the advocates on PBS, who debated this and it

was moderated by michael dukakis? great stuff. This is worse, however. much worse.

[Virginia Dare]

3. I read "All The President's Men" some years back..

it's really amazing and quite scary how close Nixon came to being a dictator. It was an extreme abuse of power, but something tells me it's child's play compared to what's going on now.

I think the problem is we have no major media outlet that is willing to take them down. We have no Deep Throat who is spilling his guts, at least none that we know of. We don't have any saavy, smart Republicans with integrity who can see this is destroying them right along with our government.

I keep thinking that as badly as they have pissed off the CIA, somebody is going to take these criminals down. I keep waiting.

[EVDebs]

Intell insiders took Nixon down. Look into Sen Robt. F. Bennett's Mullan & Co. background

[EVDebs]

133. Early pages around 32-36 re the 'Chilean investors' in the Mexican bank

was really CIA money coming back into the US to Nixon's coffers, just like our CIA sent money for yrs to Italy and other countries elections. (Anti-Allende $ and the CIA attitude, 'get over it').

Follow the money my ass.

[Richardo]

4. Nixon teetered on the brink with the firing of the special prosecutor

...but ultimately, everyone who was subpoenaed testified. I'm not saying they told the truth, but there are lines even Nixon wouldn't cross. For one thing, Congress, the courts and the media called him on his bullshit every step of the way.

Bush doesn't even care that there IS a line, let alone care about crossing it.

[DCKit]

45. Not that Nixon cared much for that old rag....

But the rest of the country, congress and the news outlets were all "real" Americans and took the constitution and our patriotism seriously.

It was a world away from the cynical society we have now.

[EVDebs]

131. Woodward was part of intell and intell ran the operation

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/sonoma/07.03.97/scoop-9727.html

Nixon's fate was preordained when the Huston Plan (Martial Law) sought to eliminate and rearrange some of the agencies. The Navy also wanted Tricky Dick out since Blind Man's Bluff (book by Sontag and Drew) shows Zumwalt was furious about an entire class of US subs being tossed aside giving a Russian advantage.

The martial law aspects and domestic covert acts by CIA and FBI were nothing compared to the Military's spying on MLK, btw.

[alfredo]

66. Do you realize it was Robert Bork who did Nixon's bidding by firing the

special prosecutor. Why do you think they (republicans) wanted him on the Supreme court.

[Richardo]

68. Indeed. They went down the list at Justice and all refused to fire Cox until they got to Bork

What a guy.

[alfredo]

71. Loyalty to the junta is all important.

[displacedtexan]

7. No. And...

All 3 major news networks ran the list of war dead names every night.

News was a sacred trust (not for profit) back then.

[onenote]

58. Link?

I was around then too (even got called for my physical by my draft board). I don't remember the networks running a list of war dead names every night (or at all, for that matter).

[displacedtexan]

67. Link?

I was in high school, and I watched the network news every night.

The list of names woke me from my spoiled teen stupor and sent me to join protests.

[Hepburn]

93. I remember on the bottom right corner (I think)....

...of the evening news that a body count from VN was run. But I don't remember the names either. Could have been. That was a very long time ago and I am now old and having Senior moments. I was in my late teens when this started and then in my 20s when this was going on...but I do recall the numbers.

[onenote]

97. I remember them discussing the weekly body count

But I am fairly certain that the national networks did not run names on a regular basis. Maybe a local affiliate ran the names of locals who were KIA or MIA, but not the national nightly news.

[EVDebs]

134. Life Magazine one week's war dead pics Memorial Day 1969 issue

http://members.aol.com/mraffin/memday69.htm

[UnyieldingHierophant]

110. I was a very small child, but I remember the scroll of those killed that day in Vietnam*

[C_U_L8R]

8. Way back then, we had journalists

whatever happened to them ???

[KansDem]

25. This observation cannot be stressed enough...

The media actually reported what was going on...very objectively. There was no "liberal media;" the reporters did their jobs. Today, the media is running interference for the Bushistas. Hell, they're even complicit with the treason of outing Valerie Plame.

So the lesson to be learned from all this:
* Media that reports on corrupt, criminal Republican president/administration is viewed as "liberal" by the Repubs;
* Media that distort, deceive, and obfuscate for corrupt, criminal Republican president/administration is viewed as "objective" and "fair and balanced" by the Repubs.

:shrug: I don't understand it either...

[NewJeffCT]

35. Watergate inspired the RW "insurgency"

Based on what came out of Watergate, several influential and/or wealthy RWers banded together to start creating an infrastructure to remake the media and the country... they funded "think-tanks" so they would have so-called experts to tell their side of the story, they started buying out newspapers - even small locals, they recruited young Republics to go into the media so they would have sympathetic voices and minds.

Moon, Scaife, the Walton family, the Coors family, Murdoch, Black, etc.

[harun]

72. We are eating the fruits of those labors right now and it sucks

They used academia more for what Think Tanks now are. I thought it might have been something like this when I started reading about them. If anyone wants some good info on it and how the freep's started to use them to create the advice they wanted instead of the advice that mattered wikipedia has a good page on them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_tank

From that article:

After 1970, the number of think tanks exploded, as many smaller new think tanks were formed to express various partisan, political, and ideological views.

[EVDebs]

135. Don't forget the Knights of Malta and other autocratic groups...

The CIA was founded by these SMOM retards.

[malaise]

41. Bingo

The media would not have allowed Bush to 'get away' with so much criminality.

[Dulcinea]

75. It's all about the bottom line.

All the media outlets today are owned by big corporations, & are expected to turn a big profit every quarter. News is no longer a public service; it's a commodity to be sold just like GE appliances or passes to Disney.

Hence, wall-to-wall coverage of Lindsay Lohan's latest DUI arrest rather than the rampant corruption of the Bushistas. Lindsay sells ad time. The inner workings of the government, sadly, does not. (I personally disagree with that, but I'm not a corporate CFO.)

"What will that do to the stock price?!" they shriek. And that's all the parent companies care about.

[TheBaldyMan]

48. you still do, they just have a harder time being heard.

In fact US still has some of the best investigative reporters.

Don't forget the internets as well.

[groovedaddy]

10. I'm not much older than you, but I as a political science major

I was paying attention.
The stuff going on now is more far reaching, but the arrogance is similar.
When Watergate was first revealed, I was in a grad level poli sci class on the Presidency. It was taught by a prof who had just served as a fellow in the Nixon administration (even though he was a democrat). We had long discussions in class (and in private) on the implications of watergate on the Nixon presidency. My gut told me that Nixon was dead meat over this but my prof said there was no possibility that Nixon would be impeached or driven from office (how similar to many of the discussions on impeachment here at DU!). I challenged my prof to a bet: Nixon will be impeached or resign. He took me up on it and I collected on the bet.

[Tesha]

11. Yes and No.

Yes, the behavior of this administration is
quite like the behavior of the Nixon administration
at a similar point in the "ripening" of the scandal.

No, the press was aggressively persuing the news
whereas today's corporate media seems to be
aggressively quashing the news.

Tesha

[VP505]

20. No

We also had some if not many RePublics that were interested in truthfulness and doing what was right for the country rather than obstruct and run cover for the Pres.

[Tesha]

42. After a while. Nixon needed to rise to the level of being "an embarrasment" first.

Also, the Republicans were distinct minorities in both
the House and the Senate, so they needed to be better
behaved, one might even say, "more bipartisan".

Tesha

[MannyGoldstein]

16. Yes And No

As Atman points out above, Watergate was more in the forefront of the news and the American psyche.

It was also different in that while Nixon's crimes were committed in secret, and had to be investigated, Bush's are out in the open - he just commits a crime, says that it's legal, and Gonzales writes a CYA memo.

However, it was similar in the cascade of events - once the ball got rolling one thing gave birth to another, and Nixon's troubles increased exponentially until he was crushed by their weight, as we're seeing with Bush.

As I believe Mark Twain said: "History doesn't repeat - but it rhymes." Watergate was different in a lot of ways - but, to me, it feels very similar.

[Buck Rabbit]

113. You hit the key difference on the nose.

Bush's major attacks on the constitution are done out in the open. He doesn't deny doing them, he simply states what he is doing is legal. The Republicans then go on record as being in agreement with this interpretation of the law and in some cases try to pass legislation after the fact to affirm and codify what the administration has done on its own.

The news media loves discovering secrets. Hiding things are tacit admissions of guilt. Gotcha headlines are news stories. "Enemies list revealed" "Secret Tapes" "Missing 18 minutes" made great headlines. Whereas "Bush again attaches signing statement to a his signature of a legislative bill as he has done on a consistent basis during his Presidency despite the opinion of most constitutional scholars that such signing statements have no basis in common or constitutional law" make really boring headlines.

The other thing is that Nixon was brought down from the inside by his own taping system and an informant. Had he not taped himself he would have walked. I doubt Bush has made the same mistake and if he did he has a friendly Supreme Court to keep his secrets where Nixon did not.

[JPettus]

143. The Times were different in another way as well

Nixon came along at the end of Johnson's Vietnam fiasco. The people were already starting to be suspicious of their government's motives and actions. Nixon finished that off and even people that wanted to believe that their President was above such actions were astonished to learn how deep the rabbit hole went in terms of corruption.

Now, 30+ years later, the populace is so jaded that they aren't impressed with the behavior of the Bushies. It's what they have come to expect from both parties.

[sallyseven]

17. Nixon was not a good person however

bush has him beat by a mile and a half. Nixon was a little crazy but he was not as arrogant, insane and stupid as bush. I did not like Nixon but he did not scare me like bush does. I never felt that he would take over the gov. and run us into war with the world. bush should be brought up on contempt charges and any repuk that defends him should be up on dereliction of his oath of office. Gonzo should be sent to jail and cheney, tried and convicted, would get the death penalty. That should be on tv. How dare bush say I do not care what the congress says. He will not care what the court says either. He has to go.

[CatWoman]

29. my daughter called me last night

and told me that after watching Bush's latest speech (the one on Monday I think), she's been scared to death as she thinks Bush has completely lost it.

[roamer65]

139. I bet * gets drunk and talks to Bill Clinton's portrait.

:evilgrin:

[JPettus]

144. Lost it?

I'm not so sure he ever had it to begin with. I doubt the man could find his ass in the dark without a flashlight and a road map.

[jtrockville]

18. Nixon wasn't willing to bring the country down with him.

John Dean (WH council) testified.

[woodsprite]

19. Do you think there is any chance the media will stop

carrying water for this administration and actually start reporting? Every once in awhile I think it's starting to happen, then it seems they were just 'throwing us a bone' and they go back to being the 'Piss boy'. We're quickly running out of time and they better stop 'waiting for the shake'.

[azurnoir]

23. No

Part of the difference is that Watergate started out with a burglary investigation, hard to deny. These criminals are the whitecollar, on paper type, much harder to prove. Also the GOP learned it's lessons-leave no hard evidence pointing to anyone and control the media.
Had to pay attention at the time, my civics teacher replaced the regular curriculum with watching the trials and reporting on them.

[leftofthedial]

No. There were actual Democrats in Congress then.

And the bush neocon criminal wing of the repuke party was on the rise and destroying Nixon from within.

[leftofthedial]

24. No. There were actual Democrats in Congress then.

And the bush neocon criminal wing of the repuke party was on the rise and destroying Nixon from within.

[Major Hogwash]

107. There were actual Republicans in Congress then as well.

Who didn't look the other way when they found out the Constitution was considered by the President to be a "set of guidelines" rather than the law.

Many Republicans in the House voted to impeach Nixon in 1974.

[MADem]

26. It was more PORTENTIOUS, I think--the hearings on Tee VEE

(Mind, this was BC--Before Cable--so it meant more when soap operas were preempted!!!).

The build-up to the resignation was much more rapid and pronounced. The issues addressed were equally grave--how much power do we give our Presidents? Are they 'above the law?' So far, the American people have said NO.

Nixon wasn't as smug, but make no mistake--he was Bush's equal when it came to wiping his ass on the Constitution. Listen to some of those tapes of his to get a flavor of of the man, and then IMAGINE what was said during that eighteen and a half minute gap.

Nixon looks rosy through the long, blurred lens of history, but he was a very dangerous man. The BushCo crew -- many of whom WORKED for Nixon (Cheney, Rumsfeld, e.g,) learned from those mistakes.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. I was working swing shift when the announcement came that he would resign.

I was a postal worker and college student at the time working on a letter sorting machine. We had headphones so we could listen to the radio. All of us heard the news announcement and simultaneously turned off our machines and literally danced in the aisles. The place was nothing but grins and laughter. Even the bosses joined in.

[bdamomma]

55. oh yea, it was a time of celebration when Nixon stepped down.

now if only that could happen again.

[EFerrari]

73. My mom had every kid on the block over for cake and ice cream

and some of their parents were really pissed. :evilgrin:

[Vanje]

83. When news came of Niixon's resignation...

My dad popped the cork on a bottle of Asti Spumante he had chilled and ready for that very eventuality.

My brother made a tapeofthat historic moment:The sounnd of the TV news,whoops and hollars,and he popping cork.
I wonder what happened to that tape.
Dad is gone now. I wouldnt mind hearing him whoop again.

[TheBaldyMan]

28. firing the special prosecutor Fox caused a few raised eyebrows

and "I am not a crook", caused roars of laughter.

[spanone]

31. waddya mean by old-timers? nixon was a prick of the highest order

but he didn't have a 'cheney' behind him and i think he had a modest respect for the constitution.

[KittyWampus]

74. Um, Cheney WAS behind Nixon.

[spanone]

109. you're right, not in quite the same capacity as spiro agnew though.....

:toast:

[KittyWampus]

115. ya, this is what happens when you don't put out a fire entirely. Embers eventually

spark up and restart an inferno.

[bobbolink]

155. Oh, how I wish ALL DUers could grasp the truth of which you speak!

That inferno is licking our heels!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

34. No. Shrub makes Nixon look like Mr. Rogers.

Nixon didn't believe himself to be King. He did not try to take away the powers of Congress. He did not start an illegal and immoral war that filled the coffers of his nearest and dearest. Nixon was Intelligent unlike the Shrub, and although arrogant, didn't have one hundreths the cojones that Shrub exhibits.

[Turbineguy]

37. Nixon was a choirboy

compared to Bush. He was also a competent President. What he did damaged the Presidency but not the whole country in the way Bush has done.

But they did stonewall and obstruct as long as they could. The country and the (liberal!) media was already against the Vietnam War. It was a small step from that point to go after Nixon. I watched the hearings. Sam Irvin, Howard Baker and others. In those days the Republican party was more mainstream. George Wallace was a Democrat. The guys who run the republican party now, were considered "lunatic fringe" back then.

[H2O Man]

38. Yes and no.

Yes, the Nixon administration was terribly corrupt. I can honestly say I never dreamed that there could possibly be any administration nearly as bad as Nixon's. The Reagan years changed that misperception, of course.

Nixon also seemed paranoid and vindictive; Reagan was arrogant and vindictive; Bush 1 was secretive and underhanded; and this Bush is the very definition of smug and cruel.

[quiet.american]

79. Yes -- "smug and cruel." Exactly. A simple-minded monster. n/t

[supernova]

39. I don't remember Nixon being this blatantly stupid

and expecting people to swallow it.

Nixon had the good grace to hole up in the WH and act ashamed.

And if I say anything about that Cheney creature, I'll get a visit from the Secret Service.

[Desertrose]

63. Definitely not as stupid as * ...but then

I always felt it was much easier to hide things back then before the days of high tech equipment, internet & cell phones.Today everything is pretty much instantaneous....plus the media is not even close to what it once was....

[Gman]

40. The attitude of the Bush administration is identical to the Nixxon administration

probably because there are a lot of people around the WH that worked in the Nixxon WH including Cheney. They're as combative as anyone in the Nixxon WH.

It's common knowledge that Cheney thinks Nixxon got a raw deal and he's trying to make it right.

[bdamomma]

57. that is cheney's vendetta.

"Cheney thinks Nixxon got a raw deal and he's trying to make it right".

[trof]

43. I was 30 years old. 4 key players, IMHO.

Woodward and Bernstein, of course.
Without their dogged determination, the story may never have developed 'legs'.

An unsung (or perhaps 'lesser sung') hero was WaPo editor Ben Bradlee, who gave W&B the go ahead and supported them in the face of blatant threats from the WH.

And last, but far from least, Daniel Ellsberg, who released the Pentagon Papers.

There's an excellent Watergate timeline that connects all the dots here: http://www.polytechnic.org/faculty/gfeldmeth/chart.Nixon.html

But to answer your question (finally ;-)), what is so different now is the corporate controlled media. Back then there was a lot more independence and competition. And 'news', in and of itself, wasn't a 'business'.

And without parsing and re-parsing what has already been parsed extensively on DU, what Bush has done is a far, far more serious threat to our country than what Nixon did.

[EVDebs]

136. Please see post #132. Woodward hasn't changed a bit

Woodward was first outted as 'intel' in Jim Hougan's Secret Agenda book. Why no one followed up is anyone's guess but the M$M needed its heroic figure and the real reasons Nixon was taken down were buried unceremoniously. The Alzheimer patient Woodward makes out as Deep Throat is really the very alert Sen. Robert F. Bennett of Utah.

[CatWoman]

151. Trof

you ole spring chicken, you :)

:hi:

[Oilwellian]

44. Well darn, you're younger than me Cat

But only by a year. :P I wish now I had paid more attention to politics and Nixon's resignation. My brother was really into it though and I think the entire event is what encouraged him to become a lawyer.

[CatWoman]

152. I'm tired of my sister calling me an old bat

:P

[BurtWorm]

47. Major difference: The investigation was front and center in the media

and all Americans were riveted by the lurid drama of it.

(I was 12 and riveted by it! ;-) )


PS: I guess I shouldn't say "ALL" Americans. :hide:

[flyarm]

49. yes yes and yes...but this asshole is making me miss Nixon!!

the difference was the dems were strong then..strong in character i believe...

of course i was in my 20's and things look different to you when you are in your 20's than in your 50's...

but it was a very frightening time as well...i was so involved in protesting the war..so i just had hate for him sooo bad...

he was also a baffon..but a dark character..i think it was easier to dislike him because he was such a dark mooded man.

but yes he was "watching " the protestors , infiltrating our groups..it was a very big brother time ..looking over your shoulder.

but we ( the youth) was very vocal..we were very active protesting ..daily it seems now ..i look back and think i was in Washington protesting more than i was in class ( college) ...

as an adult i went back to finish my degree ( i needed 1 semester to get my BS) and i was sitting with a dean of a mid west univ..and he looked at my grades..and i shrugged and said..i majored in protest ..my fist 3 years!!


if we weren't off somewhere protesting we were doing sit in's on our own campus.

of course during my college yrs ..the draft began..many friends were heading for Canada..

the draft really activated people who were sitting on the sidelines ignoring the war..

that is why many of us "oldtimers" say..if * instituted the draft this war would be over tommorrow!!

But the Watergate hearings were a very unsettling , frightening time..

butour folks had all gone through the depression and WWII..and they were very patriotic ..so they went along with Vietnam..for a long time..until Watergate..then they got mad..

but in those days i remember families sitting around the kitchen table talking about it all..people talked..your aunts and uncles..they discussed alot of what was going on..

that is what i do not see today..and that is these assholes success..they divided us so much that people do not discuss or argue within families about all this..everyone goes to their own corners..and no one discusses the crimes of this administration..people are afraid to get into any real serious conversations..
ok it is changing a bit now..but still not much among friends and family..there is a polite under the table agreement to not discuss among ourselves.

and this is wrong..
i took a stand 3 years ago to get into people's faces..and yes even today when i walk into a room of friends..people roll their eyes ( as if i can't see them!!ha!) ..but i don't care..i have lost many friends..and family..but tough shit..i feel anyone who supports this crap i don't want around me.

I have not talked to my only sister since 2001..shortly after 9/11 when i said the offical story was bullshit lies.

my sis was a bu$hbot..sheeple..and she was ripe for this type of propaganda and talking points and this perversion.

i guess i digressed..

but yes it was a frightening time..and we were a divided country then as well about the war...

my dad almost disowned me..because i protested so much..but i had a boyfriend who went to Nam as a Pilot..and when he came home and told stories i became more adamant about stopping the war..so did he..

and my brothers were drafted..both went to nam...and when they came home and were so changed and told my dad what was going on..only then did my dad understand how wrong the war was.

but my dad never apologized to me until he was dying..the day before he died..he said..you know..you were right and i was wrong about Vietnam..and he said it with tears in his eyes. He said..those bastards were evil that did this to this country.

and he asked me to forgive him for being so wrong.

but that was after seeing for years how vietnam had hurt my brothers emotionally.

yes those were frightening times..black panthers were blowing up buildings in Philly and there was a real sense of unrest everywhere.

the thing today that pisses me off so much..it was those who never fought ..who were never drafted and never saw the front lines of anything..that have supported these bastards so much!

all the people my hubby and i are around never went to nam and never ever put the uniform on and they have been the biggest cheerleaders for these pricks..

recently one friend /buisness aquaintence ..said to my husband >>i wish your wife would get off this bandwaggon of bush this or that..and my husband asked this man..when did you serve...when did you ever do a damn thing for this country other than make your millions..when..my husband ( who is non political) said..that lady has done more for this country than you ever have ..so stfu..

and this man asked my hubby what he ever did ..and my hubby said he was in the reserves and served for 8 years..and he said ..i don't say much..but that lady knows more than you ever will about what is going on...and you should only ever care so much..hubby said ..you should be thanking her for trying to save this country for your kids and grandkids..

wow my hubby was furious..he was yelling it..and he finished by saying that man owed me an apology...

yes these assholes in this white house knew thay had to divide this country...to stop the flow of discussion..now it is up to us ...to stop the divide and work together to stop these fuckers!!

when people ask me how i keep doing this every day..i say the best thing we can do is educate..educate educate..others..start talking..make people listen to you...don't yell and scream..talk...and keep educating!!

and tell them to turn faux mews off..to stop watching that propaganda!!

oh and for years i carried military registrations in my car..stacks of them i ran off the computer..so when people /friends said they supported this crap..out i would come with a registration form and say..signup or sign your kids up...that shut people up real quick..and i got to say what was going on..

maybe we all should have those forms in our cars and hand them out when people make excuses of what * has done and is doing in Iraq..and to this country..

i always say ..put the boots where your mouth is!!

fly

[YOY]

81. Do you really want to know why today's youth aren't protesting?

Watch "Sicko" again if you've seen it already or for the first time.

He describes EXACTLY what I refer to as the "Invisible cage" around Americans that has either been set up by design or accident (I think the former but the latter could be true as well...) to keep Americans heads down and out of politics and protests.

[flyarm]

92. I WANT TO SEE IT BUT IT IS NOT PLAYING ANYWHERE NEAR ME..NO WHERE!!

i am dying to see it!!

and i do believe the youth is being kept down from protesting..many just out of college are working such long hours for so little compared to what we were in the early 70's ..in comparison!!

and we are much more a consumer society now.

i think there are many reasons..nothing is a one size fits all..

i know i have gone round and round about it with my own son..to get off his ass..his mom can't protect this country for him..he needs to get involved..to deaf ears!!!!!!!

oh he pays a bit of attention..but not much...

its the media...see no evil , hear no evil, speak no evil..........its not happening ..don'tcha know!!


i can tell him stuff but unless the media tells him..it isn't happening!!

fly

[YOY]

96. The chains are set in place and he is in his cage...perhaps he won't realize until later

I want for Moore to make another movie on this very subject. He touched lightly on it before.

If your son doesn't believe it from his parents, he will get it 2 years after college...or even perhaps after grad school as I did.

[TheBaldyMan]

124. perhaps you can download it, or get some to download it for you

and burn it onto a DVD.

[bobbolink]

156. We may very well have to lose the country before they are able to "get it"

So many Good Germans around..

[TygrBright]

50. Yes and no...

Yes, in that we simply couldn't believe how long it was taking to do what we knew needed to be done. Those who knew Nixon was a lying, paranoid, lawless weasel even before the 1972 campaign began collecting evidence of his and his Administration's unconstitutional and criminal misdeeds. We knew IMMEDIATELY that Watergate was more than "just a burglary," we knew exactly where the trail would lead-- via major donors through CREEP to the White House. It utterly baffled us that the whole rest of the world and the mainstream media and Congressional Democrats and everyone else were more caught up in paying for bombers to carpet bomb Hanoi than in having the Constitution desecrated and the government corrupted, debased, and stolen.

Democrats in Congress who were not spending every minute of every day working on ending the Vietnam War were subjected to much of the same kind of odium as many Congressional Democrats are experiencing now.

In that sense, the feelings outrage, the impatience, the sense that no one except us got it right, the impeachment calendars, etc., was very much like it is now.

No, in that the rest of the socio-political-economic infrastructure was less debased than currently. Megaglom Corporations had bought much less of the government, Unions were still a force to be reckoned with, the Fairness Doctrine and other regulation kept some of the media free of megaglom control, and the nuttier element of the right wing wasn't so much religious as fire-breathing redneck. As long as it took for us to lance the boil back then, we did get to it, and considerably faster than we are now, with our vastly more bloated and corrupt and ineffective infrastructure.

reminiscently,
Bright

[TacticalPeek]

52. The disdain and contempt - quite similar.

A couple of examples:








Both Johns Erlichman and Mitchell went to prison.

[King Coal]

56. Yeah, we need to include John Mitchell. He was the AG and he

openly encouraged wire-tapping and gave many speeches advocating it. His wife Martha was a whistle-blower if sorts. Bush and Cheney are much worse and much more dangerous.

[Mme. Defarge]

108. Interesting Helen Thomas piece on Martha Mitchell

A few excerpts of the book Front Row At The White House - My Life And Times by Helen Thomas

Scribner, 1999



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


from pages 203-204

"In December 1971 a wire story ran about Vice President Spiro Agnew's gag Christmas gift list. Included on the list were: "For Martha Mitchell, a brand-new Princess phone. For John Mitchell, a padlock for a brand-new Princess phone."
"Why did Martha Mitchell call you?" someone asked me after I filed my first story based on one of her many telephone calls in which she expressed her outraged a few days after the Watergate break-in.
I wasn't the only reporter she called, but I did take her seriously and I wrote about what she told me. Sometimes the stories made it to the wire and sometimes they go spiked. But Martha perhaps put the answer best herself when she told an interviewer, "Helen knows me well enough to know I'm not going to give her a line of bull. We just kind of fell into each other's arms. Several other reporters had been recommended to me, but when I talked to them they were cold fish. They were calculating, and, I thought, unwilling to stick their necks out. Helen Thomas, I knew would print the truth no matter what it cost her personally, and I wanted the truth to be known."(1)
I don't think the dust will ever entirely settle on the Watergate scandal, but I do think Martha deserves more than a footnote in its history. She should be remembered as the woman who tried to blow the whistle on what was going on, but sometimes her stories seemed so out there, it was close to impossible to get anyone to listen. However, I listened and I wrote and I'll let history decide.
I do remember her telling me early on in her time in Washington, "Politics is a dirty business," and I remember equally well a memorable remark her husband made shortly after they arrived: "Watch what we do, not what we say."

Read more at http://www.maebrussell.com/Watergate/Helen%20Thomas.html

[King Coal]

53. Cat, I was a little older than you, but I remember a chef I was

working with, who actually knew Nixon. And he was afraid that Nixon would go postal and do something very bad, like push the red button. We, were really pissed off because of all the deaths in Vietnam, and of course, the draft. But, Nixon was not as bad as Bush. He was not a puppet. The reason Bush stumbles with his language so much is because of Cheney's carpal tunnel. Nixon had dirty tricksters, but they didn't seem to be a evil as Karl Rove. :hi:

[WinkyDink]

54. Yes and no. The "no" part = the media weren't quite the lap-dogs, there were no RW shows,

no 24-hr "news", and there WAS a HUGE, in-the-streets anti-war movement.

[Imagevision]

59. No-way! Nixon didn't have the media control * has, Nixon wasn't able

to change laws to suit his own needs, Nixon didn't have the Attorney general in his back pocket either to name just a few...

[mmonk]

60. No. The sheer volume of what we are facing now is much worse

and has progressed much further.

[onenote]

62. yes and no

Nixon was a vindictive, corrupt, amoral asshole.

Apart from differences in media coverage, the other difference was that partisanship hadn't reached such an intense level as exists now. The decision to investigate the Watergate break-in and related campaign abuses (the Ervin Committee) was supported by a large bi-partisan majority in the Senate (77-0) and the decision to start impeachment hearings also was overwhelmingly bi-partisan (410-4). We are unlikely to see such bi-partisanship any time soon if ever.

[nini]

64. No.. W makes Tricky Dick look like an altar boy

seriesly :D

[TahitiNut]

69. That cannot be emphasized enough. Smirk wouldn't qualify to shine Tricky Dick's shoes.

... and Dick was a real dick, too. Smirk and Sneer are orders of magnitude worse than Nixon.

[Blackhatjack]

70. YES, and this is a replay of many of the same events....

In 1972 I was in high school, and I was spending a week in D.C. with other high school students when Nixon fired Archibald Cox. That same week, Nixon came to the same hotel(The Shoreham) I was staying in to address a group of 'young Republicans' and cut our group from his schedule. Kissinger appeared at our hotel with his entourage that week. IT was a big week, and I remember events moving quickly.

What most people here do not grasp is that the lead up to the major events of Watergate took a long time. Woodward and Bernstein were the only journalists reporting on the Watergate breakin and the followup for months at a time. Other major newspapers made fun of the Washington Post for pursuing the matter. In many ways, the reason Woodward and Bernstein were successful was because they were underestimated as young and inexperienced reporters AND without 'Deep Throat' they would not have been able to keep the story alive.

Nixon's arrogance brought him down. Plain and simple.

Nixon thought he had the power to shut down anything that might reveal his wrongdoing. His biggest mistake was he thought the secret WHITE HOUSE tape recording system would never be revealed.

Arrogant? THink about this for a minute.... Nixon risked everything to keep the recording system in place and operating for the sole purpose of later writing his memoirs--to establish his place in history. How is that for irony?

The entire MSM took a pass on the story until late in the game. Then as the courts began ruling against Nixon's arguments and the firing of Eliot Richardson, Rucklehaus and Archibald Cox took place reporters sat up and paid attention. When Butterfield revealed the existence of the WH taping system, the implosion began.

I don't claim to have a perfect memory, but that is my recollection.

And Bush is travelling the same trail that Nixon was on in Watergate. The question is whether there are 'insiders' feeding the information to Congressional Investigators like Deep Throat in Watergate. I think there are. ANd I think when this ADministration begins to crumble it will happen quickly.

Bush may have doomed himself by trying to place himself above the Courts. The Judicial Branch takes seriously its role as a co-equal branch, and the final word on interpreting the Constitution and all laws. I think they will strike down an Executive Branch that claims imperial power that infringes upon the Judicial Branch's turf.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

142. The taping system brought him down.

I heard Al Franken on his Air America show say this:

He was living in NYC with his comedy partner, Tom Davis. They used to be Franken and Davis on Saturday Night Live and they were in the movie "Trading Places".

Anyway, a minor witness, Alexander Butterfield, while testifying revealed the existence of the taping system in the Oval Office.

Franken said they heard about that on the news, jumped up, high-fived each other, and said "HE'S GOIN' DOWN!!!".

=========
Nixon was a bastard back when he ran for Congress in CA against Helen Gahagan Douglas, and smeared her. That was in the late 1940s.

My mom always called him "That Bastard Richard Nixon".

[EVDebs]

76. Yes, In Spades. Watergate was about domestic ops, martial law, and unconstitutional exec behavior

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1440808

a mere child of the '50s who was old enough to watch the JFK, LBJ, Gulf of Tonkin, Vietnam, Watergate era and ask questions at the same time.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

78. Yes.

I think the differences between the media then and now is highly exaggerated.

I do think the opposition party these days, however, is lacking.

[kaygore]

80. No

I remember listening to the news on the radio as I was dressing in the morning. Nixon was overriding some bill that Congress wanted passed. I remember thinking at the time that in his contempt for Congress, Nixon was nailing his coffin shut. Soon after that, Nixon was on the run and soon after that he was out.

Congress had some integrity in those days. The number of people in Congress with integrity today is a fraction of what it was then. I just think of my congressperson, Thelma "Rubber Stamp" Drake and my senior, senator John "Situational Ethics Warner. What a pair! Drake is too stupid to know that she is a pawn, plus she is Canadian born so probably doesn't know about the Constitution, but Warner has no excuse. Hope he likes the fires of Hell.

[Cameron27]

84. What's missing is the Republican side of this I think.

There's no Elliot Richardson, or even a Goldwater this time around.

[L. Coyote]

85. NO. And, YES, in 1972 we had criminals running the RNC and the WH.

NO, because there were far fewer bad apples then. There has been a considerable re-grouping since Nixon's resignation and pardon.

I can remember exactly where I sat watching the hearings then. What memorable times. I missed a lot of work and income to view that part of history.

The big difference is Watergate was about one simple issue, illegal political spying and the cover-up.

Today we have illegal political spying to cover-up dozens and dozens of crimes, and it seems every R is in on it!

It is important to remember that a group of Rs went to the WH to tell Nixon to take a permanent vacation.
Who is going to do that today, Vitter? Guys elected in fixed elections? They all need to stall the inevitable!

[ananda]

86. I so remember.

I was 24 in the summer of 73 and between jobs.
So I sat in front of the tv every day watching the hearings.

Barbara Jordan.. just great.. a true stateswoman.

Sam Irvin.. wonderful.. folksy.. a lot of biblical references.

Howard Baker.. a good guy.

Daniel Inouye.. marvelous.

The hearings were covered by network tv nonstop. There
was no cable or satellite tv back then. Walter Cronkite
and that group were doing the evening news, which was
all right.

Today is totally different. The media are completely Bushinc
and irresponsible; Congress is a one-party assembly dedicated
to corporate and Bushinc interests, even when giving lip
service to some hot button issues like Iraq or investigations.

America as an ideal is dead. America as a corporate state run
by puppet dictators is a reality. Life is not good here.

Sue

[NewYorkerfromMass]

100. More names: Liz Holtzman, Peter Rodino

I was pretty young in 1974 but my mom was a total political LWV junkie and TV news watching maniac.
She would turn on the hearings every afternoon that summer, and it was all pretty exciting to me, mundane as the process may have been, and leading up to R-day, a day that will ive in infamy- August 8, 1974.
I think back and it's like WOW, could it happen again?

[immoderate]

116. The Judiciary should make Liz Holtzman their impeachment counsel.

She's a good lawyer, speaker, and she has studied impeachment thoroughly. I bet she'd love to do it. :)

I was a Watergate Junkie. I listened to the hearing on the radio at work, and then watched the tape replay at night. It was so different. Congress, though reserved, was all over Nixon's ass. Nixon had some respect for the law, and the Constitution. He was compliant with subpoenas. If Bush had tapes, he wouldn't turn them over.

Nixon had defenders on the committee, but after the evidence was presented, the Republicans had to go with reality. It seems that most folks don't feel that could happen today e.g.: "We don't have the votes in the Senate!"

--IMM

[NewYorkerfromMass]

118. Well, she did just write a book...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/156025940X/ref=pd_rvi_gw_1/104-1601426-4443928?ie=UTF8

She's awesome. I voted for her for Senate in 1992 when she would have run against D'Amato, unfortunately, she didn't make it out of the primary. :-(

[immoderate]

146. Yeah, I was living in NY then. And happy to vote for Liz.

--IMM

[Booster]

88. The difference is that the press actually did their job, and did it

well, but we also have to give a little credit to the ladies of the time, like Mo Dean and Martha Mitchell, who made the whole ugly thing even more interesting. Come on ladies, speak up now and save our Constitution.

[Iverson]

89. For starters, there was an opposition party ...

... that didn't take impeachment "off the table" in the face of executive abuse of power. The depth of the criminality of the Bush administration is also worse than Nixon, who was motivated primarily by his own dark psychology.

[Hamlette]

90. yes, I was in law school at the time, it is just like this

when I think back on how much I hated Halderman and Erlichman and Agnew and Mitchell I'm thinking Gonzo/Rove/Cheney are rank amateurs.

The other thing I keep reminding myself of is how the media did nothing! The Washington Post (RIP) was the only paper talking about it AT ALL. Watch the movie All the President's Men. The WaPo staff would watch the news each night wondering if what they reported would get picked up. nada.

At the time I didn't really realize that. The WaPo was reporting it and for us, that meant the whole world knew AND agreed. The movie and book actually helped me realize how "few" we were at the time AND when we complain about the press how it was the WaPo and ONLY the WaPo that was on the story.

I think we act as a megaphone here online. During Watergate we used to get together with our friends the same way we do here but it wasn't 24/7 reinforcement but it was pretty much daily.

Nixon would NEVER have resigned and its not at all clear he would have been impeached without the tapes. He taught every president to stonewall. (With Clinton it was the dress without which HE would never have been impeached.)

When you talk about congress not doing anything, the Dems controlled congress throughout...not just during the last 2 years. They were holding hearings etc. for years, like with Clinton.

And yes, Nixon stonewalled everything. They threatened the WaPo, and got the CIA to spy on the FBI which was investigating them. Nixon and his gang were just as ruthless. Without John Dean and the tapes Nixon would have survived his term.

[Blackhatjack]

101. You remember it just as I do... I would add Nixon's arrogance brought him down

Nixon just did not believe that he could be 'touched' and he was so arrogant that he made and kept tapes from the secret WH taping system so that he could write his memoirs from them, and thereby preserve his place in history.

Sometimes the character flaw of 'arrogance' is the key to solving a mystery. It was with Nixon.

[Hamlette]

114. hubris is very dangerous, unfortunately Bush doesn't have tapes and so far no John Dean

although remember how they trashed Dean? And his wife Mo? It was brutal. His return to public life occurred when they tried to trash him AGAIN 25 years AFTER Nixon. (I don't remember the details, its in his book Conservatives w/o Conscience. Someone wrote a book that said Nixon did nothing wrong it was all a plot by Dean to overthrow the government...or some such nonsense.)

[sandnsea]

103. That's what I remember

I remember my parents really getting tuned in with the tapes and especially the gap. I remember the jokes about how Rosemary Woods would have to maneuver to accidentally erase the tapes. I don't think people realize how hard it is to get a country to accept the impeachment of a President. In some ways, it really is usurping the vote of the people and you better damn well have hard evidence when you do it. Maybe the message really should be, if you don't want this stuff in your government, stop voting for Republicans.

[kskiska]

95. No. Congress wasn't as ideological back then.

Senators were more statesmanlike. This new breed is something else.

Nixon had his daughters, particularly Julie, trotted out on talk shows to defend him, saying that he would be exonerated when the whole truth came out. Then there was Martha Mitchell for comedy relief.

From Wikipedia

Dubbed “the Mouth of the South”, Martha Mitchell began contacting reporters when her husband's role in the scandal became known. At one time, Martha insisted she was held against her will in a California hotel room and sedated to keep her from making her controversial phone calls to the news media. However, because of this, she was discredited and even abandoned by most of her family, except her son Jay. Nixon aides even leaked to the press that she had a “drinking problem”. The 'Martha Mitchell effect', in which a psychiatrist mistakenly diagnoses someone's extraordinary but reasonable belief as a delusion, was later named after her. Nixon was later to tell interviewer David Frost (in September 1977 on Frost on America) “If it hadn't been for Martha Mitchell, there'd have been no Watergate.”

[dmr]

98. I don't think so,

My dad taught me through his own experiences that monied men will do anything to keep money flowing one way - directly into their coffers - even if it means denying the everyday citizen of his rights and a fair shake.

That big ol' burly guy was there when US military tanks and cavalry stormed to forcibly remove WW-I vets, their wives and children from Washington DC in the early 30s, incuring deaths; and he fought street battles with Walter Reuther and the unions in the 30s - Dad saw Viet Nam for what it was. He saw the assassinations in the 60s and Nixon in the 70s for what they were too - criminal.

From each of those past struggles, concessions were made to benefit the money-men, and while we, the people may believe we prevailed each time, this time I think is different because there are so many cards stacked against us - I'm thankful we have the internet, but am so afraid a future Congress will sell us and this venue down the river. Then were will we be?

I've always been the Pollyanna, thinking and living positively, but to be quite honest, I'm very worried that these gangsters who have accumulated unprecedented assaults on the principle of open government have too many secrets, and by a society that has bought into the talking points of deceit and false promises.

[Vanje]

99. a similarity ;THEY DIDNT HAVE THE VOTES TO IMPEACH EITHER!

i could just cry.

[wryter2000]

102. Nixon was arrogant

Imagine, firing the special prosecutor investigating you! :wow:

But these guys are Nixon to the nth power. It's breathtaking.

[KharmaTrain]

105. Cat, There Was A Different Dynamic

You still had Dixiecrat Democrats as well as having real Moderate Republicans like Javits...even Goldwater would be considered moderate by today's standards. When Nixon's criminality got Congress involved, they had a far different view...allowing for the House/Senate hearings and the subsequent bipartisan vote on articles. We don't have such a template today.

Regarding Nixon...unlike booshie who was a puppet for a criminal enterprise, Nixon was the ultimate micromanager. Listen to the Watergate tapes and there's no question as to whose in charge...also to how polarizing he was not only to Democrats, but Repugnicans as well. This regime has bought silence from its lakeys in the House & Senate, Nixon alienated many. Thus when Watergate happened his support was lukewarm at best.

Nixon was more smug an asshole than boooshie...far more because he was far more intelligent. I find myself more pained and embarassed when I hear booshie, where watching a Nixon press conference would piss me off.

One of my first "gigs" in the broadcast biz was being a board operator for an NPR station...we carried all the Watergate hearings...they even recreated the Nixon tapes (expletive deleteds included)...and being the lowly underclassman, I ended up sitting and listening to a lot of the hearings...especially the House Judiciary Committee hearings. In '98, C-SPAN replayed those hearings...and I wish they would do it again...it would speak a lot to both the atmosphere and the way that impeachment was conducted.

Cheers...

:hi:

[CatWoman]

153. I guess I really didn't "know" Nixon

until after he rehabilitated himself......

[Blackhatjack]

111. The arrogance of the President and Republicans then was just as great as the Bush Adminstration

...and the efforts of Woodward and Bernstein were laughed at and ridiculed by the other MSM until late in the game.

It really is history repeating itself with one exception... many of the same characters who were engaged in the wrongdoing are still around today and advising this Administration not to give in and not to comply with any efforts of the Congress to investigate them.

They are more determined this time to be defiant and refuse to acknowledge any duty to follow the Constitutional mandates.

[Jack Sprat]

119. The MSM wasn't owned and pimped by

conservatives then, and there were a few honest people with character among the Nixon rotten apples during that time, who really believed in integrity when push came to shove. There don't seem to be any in this Bush crowd. None of these bastards have a shred of integrity.

[Change has come]

123. Can you imagine where we would be today

without the internets? :scared:

[troubleinwinter]

120. I remember it all...

Nixon's resignation speech excerpts:

<snip>
In the past few days, however, it has become evident to me that I no longer have a strong enough political base in the Congress to justify continuing that effort. As long as there was such a base, I felt strongly that it was necessary to see the constitutional process through to its conclusion, that to do otherwise would be unfaithful to the spirit of that deliberately difficult process and a dangerously destabilizing precedent for the future.

But with the disappearance of that base, I now believe that the constitutional purpose has been served, and there is no longer a need for the process to be prolonged.

I would have preferred to carry through to the finish whatever the personal agony it would have involved, and my family unanimously urged me to do so. But the interests of the Nation must always come before any personal considerations.

From the discussions I have had with Congressional and other leaders, I have concluded that because of the Watergate matter I might not have the support of the Congress that I would consider necessary to back the very difficult decisions and carry out the duties of this office in the way the interests of the Nation would require.

I have never been a quitter. To leave office before my term is completed is abhorrent to every instinct in my body. But as President, I must put the interest of America first. America needs a full-time President and a full-time Congress, particularly at this time with problems we face at home and abroad.

To continue to fight through the months ahead for my personal vindication would almost totally absorb the time and attention of both the President and the Congress in a period when our entire focus should be on the great issues of peace abroad and prosperity without inflation at home.

Therefore, I shall resign the Presidency effective at noon tomorrow. Vice President Ford will be sworn in as President at that hour in this office.
<snip>

Nixon was not impeached. It took no time to impeach him, it took no votes.

I remember being at work watching a TV with coworkers seeing him stepping on to the helicopter. We were all literally jumping up and down with glee.

[NancyBreen]

121. It was very much like this, with one important fact -

the Judicial and Legislative branches of our Government weren't owned by the administrative Nazis in power at the time. That's how I remember it although it was more than half my lifetime ago. Maybe there will be a John Dean in this administration who is moral enough to speak out. Let's hope so.

[AngryOldDem]

122. Media was different, government was different

You had (more or less) an independent Fourth Estate and a House and Senate that put aside party ideology to protect the Constitution.

That's why things are so fucked up now when compared to 1972.

[eridani]

126. If someone had told me in 1973 that 30 years later I'd be avidly looking out for--

--anything with John Dean's byline on it to read, I'd have asked them for a hit of whatever it was that they were smoking.

[Imagevision]

127. Similarities are, Nixon could NEVER allow the 18 minutes content of the erased tape to

be made public - And Bush can never allow the fired lawyers documents and Rove's missing but recently found 35,000+ emails to be made public and ultimately to the world. The doc's revealed would definitly prevent the repugs from ever holding power again. Why else do you think Bush is whacked out about any testimony being made available.

[in_cog_ni_to]

128. NO. Repukes were semi-normal in those days. People like John Dean existed, thank G-D! Now?

These rat bastards are RW fascist, wacko, nut jobs who want one thing and one thing ONLY...A NEW WORLD ORDER. WORLD DOMINATION. Repukes in power forever. Well, guess what? You think people were pissed off after Watergate? Just WAIT until all the crimes of this cabal are exposed! That party will not rule this country for a LONG, LONG time.

Nixon
Reagan
Bush

ALL REPUKES and ALL of them committed crimes while in office.

[Bennyboy]

130. We did not have the INFORMATION then.

I was thinking this today, in fact. Now we know everything. The second something is out there we know it. Back then there were four channels in the larger markets. The news we got was from the evening news and the papers.

Today it is in your mailbox immediately. Anything and everything. For every story you get five more backing it up or ripping it.

Meesage boards like this one, if you make post you get facts backing you up with sources, in minutes.

I go on a MB for the band Phish and we have a lot of political comment there, and they get the news faster than the TV or newspapaer outlets do.

So really we have had to dig and dig on Nixon, for years. This is right under our noses.

[pinto]

137. Yes. Nixon was an old school thug, though. These guys are much

better at covering their tracks.

The event time line seems real similar, though. We're very apt to have crime exposed.

Criminal culpability was the downfall of Nixon. He was never impeached, of course, but it became clear he was in cahoots to cover up a crime. Took two years.

We may not reach this standard in 18 months, but clearly some of the cabal are going to be held to account.

One big difference is that Bushco has subverted a broad swath of the federal structure, at the department level. Nixon wasn't able to do that (or didn't have it as an objective.)

Another difference is that we are challenging those subversions, piece by piece, in numerous actions.

This is a different challenge than Nixon presented. His case was clear cut and really fairly simple.

I think we need to support action in all the different venues available, however procedural they may be, to redress the abuse of this administration.

:kick:

[roamer65]

141. Read Hitchens' book, "The Trial of...

Henry Kissinger". He lays out the damning evidence that the Nixon campaign did in fact get the 1968 Paris peace talks scuttled on the eve of the 1968 election. They then settled for the same 1968 peace terms after the election of 1972. 20,000+ plus American lives and thousands of Vietnamese, Laotian and Cambodian lives later I should add. Nixon should not have been pardoned. Grrr...

I was young then, but I remember how much Nixon would sweat. I remember thinking, how can anyone trust someone that sweats that much.

[opihimoimoi]

145. Not even close....Bush is THE WORST in all of Americas History

The Worst...period

[murielm99]

147. Since most of you have said everything

I would say, I would like to add mostly impressions.

I was a Watergate junkie. I was 24, and working at my first job out of college. I worked all day, and came home to watch the Watergate hearings long into the night. I watched all of them, from beginning to end.

There were few Democrats where I lived, and only a few in my workplace. I watched Republicans turn against Nixon. In fact, later, when he was pardoned, I saw much more visceral disgust among educated Republicans than I expected. That surprised me. But many of them seemed to want their party cleansed, and the pardon left a lingering odor.

One impression was ugliness. I was used to being around hippies and young people with longer hair and colorful clothing. Even in my workplace, the male teachers, librarians and techies (yes, we had them in a library media center) were gentler people. The Republican politicians of the time were all hard and ugly. They are now, too. Of course, many of them are the same men.

The arrogance is the same. They were fighting for the same thing, using the same words: executive privilege. Privilege! I was still engaged in the hard fight against privilege. Privileged people were sending us to war. They were keeping black people down.

Nixon had his corporate friends, as Bush does. Remember Bebe Rebozo?

We were fighting an increasingly unpopular war. Vietnam was not unpopular at first. War protesters were considered deranged nuts, Communists, or worse. That was changing, the same way our Iraq misadventure is becoming increasingly unpopular.

I remember the urgency in the voices of the newscasters when Cox was fired, and when Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office was burglarized. Will the time come when we hear that urgency again? We have heard some of it, over the Libby commutation. Maybe we will hear more if they arrest any of the current crop of crooks for contempt.

I remember peoples' initial skepticism over the importance of Watergate. No one paid much attention to the Plame outing at first, either. Watergate seemed too complicated for most people, just like Plame. And what exactly does a U.S. Attorney do anyway? Of course he serves at the pleasure of the President. Don't they work for him? Popular ignorance is much the same, like the ideas of privilege and arrogance.

I remember going to D.C. with my husband near the end that time. Before we landed, the pilot pointed out a few sights. He pointed out the Watergate. I thought the plane was going to tip sideways, the way everyone was craning and leaning to catch sight of it. Interest had built, just as it is doing now.

Although I saw the disgust over the pardon, I also saw many loyal Republicans who stayed loyal to Nixon, even after the resignation. It seemed to me that most, but not all, were Archie Bunker types. They could not understand why he had not destroyed the tapes. They looked for scapegoats to blame for "getting" Nixon. They found those scapegoats among the liberal media and the war protesters. If someone "gets" Bush, look for the same reaction.

Cheney is a huge difference between the two eras. Agnew was always a joke. His speeches were a source of mirth. People wore Spiro Agnew watches and comedians lampooned him. Can you imagine anyone wearing a Dick Cheney watch? People fear Cheney.

Nixon did try to control the media then. He had his enemies list. And I remember a show called The Great American Dream Machine, on public television. They had a segment on an anti-war group that had been infiltrated. One of their members, a Nam veteran, had a minor dope bust. They used him to try to get the group to make explosives, so they could all be arrested. The FBI forced the station not to show that segment. The next week, they defied the FBI and showed it anyway. And just ask the Smothers Brothers about some of the pressures they faced. I think they were forced off the air.

Nixon announced his resignation in the evening. He left the next day, I think at noon. Work stopped where I was. We wheeled a t.v. into the break room. Everyone came in and watched until shortly after his helicopter took him away. We talked about it all day. I'm sure our boss knew no one would work much on such an historic day. She was one of the few Democrats.

The two are alike in some ways, different in some ways. There is one huge difference I would like to see. We need to say Never Again. We need to make sure no one is pardoned if they are found guilty. We need to be sure that those who are discredited are never allowed to serve in government or politics again.

[hedgehog]

150. What I remember is a long quiet time between the break-in and the investigations.

It was obvious to me that Nixon was behind it when I heard the first little blip about the break-in. Foolish me, I thought that meant McGovern would win as people finally turned against Nixon! It took a long time to get rolling, but after a while the weight of evidence developed a kind of inertia so that you could see where it was headed. It still took forever. I had my work number posted at home so someone could call me if Nixon resigned, but I was still looking forward to a trial in the House. That was a long summer!