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BonnieJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 02:20 PM
Original message
Exclusive | Emails Detail RNC Voter Suppression in Five States
Source: TruthOut

Previously undisclosed documents detail how Republican operatives, with the knowledge of several White House officials, engaged in an illegal, racially-motivated effort to suppress tens of thousands of votes during the 2004 presidential campaign in a state where George W. Bush was trailing his Democratic challenger, Senator John Kerry.

The documents also contain details describing how Bush-Cheney 2004 campaign officials, and at least one individual who worked for White House political adviser Karl Rove, planned to stop minorities residing in Cuyahoga County from voting on election day.

The efforts to purge voters from registration rolls was spearheaded by Tim Griffin, a former Republican National Committee opposition researcher. Griffin recently resigned from his post as interim US attorney for Little Rock Arkansas. His predecessor, Bud Cummins, was forced out to make way for Griffin.

Another set of documents, 43 pages of emails, provided to Truthout by the PBS news program "NOW," contains blueprints for a massive effort undertaken by RNC operatives in 2004, to challenge the eligibility of voters expected to support Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry in states such as Nevada, New Mexico, Florida and Pennsylvania.



Read more: http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/printer_072607A.shtml



A full examination of this issue will be the topic for this week's program, "Voter Caging" on "NOW" airing Friday, July 27 on PBS. Sample email at link.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks Bonnie
I knew it, but now everybody else will too. Notice my graphic?
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liberaldemocrat7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
82. The Democrats should make REPUBLIKLAN Party initiated voter suppression a 2008 campaign issue.
Edited on Fri Jul-27-07 12:59 PM by liberaldemocrat7
We need vote by mail with paper ballots counted by civil servants in every state. We need civil servants registering voters and keeping track of those voters in every state. This will go a long way to shutting out the Republican Party from controlling the voting and registration procedures.

Go to http://www.dmocrats.org to send a letter demanding vote by mail with paper ballots counted by civil servants, etc.

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Great post! Thank you, BonnieJW. K & R.
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Rambis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks
:kick:
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catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. The corruption is so widespread, it's hard to keep up with it

Interesting how this connects to the US attorney scandal.
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SleeplessinSoCal Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. I think the "wide spread" aspect to the corruption of the Administration..
...is two-fold. 1) To accomplish a set of desired goals and 2) to scatter the targets so their opponents have a far more difficult job focusing public attention on so many egregious acts of criminal behavior by our own government.

But this goes back to the very first criminal act - stealing an election. They should be impeached for behavior in 2000 and 2004 and then list every crime since 2000 as part of the indictment for impeachment.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #18
73. It's like the Phil Spector "Wall of Sound" of Political Corruption.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
56. lots of dots to connect
dots of corruption
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Homer12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. What Bannana Republic is this story from???
How disturbing. Republicans are more Stalinistic than they think.
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Highway61 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. Great Post...Thanks
I tell my husband all the time....if we only knew 1/8th of what was really going on our heads would spin.
Why oh why will they NOT do something about the election machines BEFORE the next election is beyond me...My God, it is so imperative.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Welcome to DU.
Where is Carrie Nation's ax when we need it?
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. kicK AND NOMINATED n/t
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. Supporting documentation from truthout, pretty damning...
Edited on Thu Jul-26-07 03:16 PM by btmlndfrmr
juicy stuff ...oughta be a real eye opener of a program Friday for the average joe.

you might want to cross post this in the Election Reform Forum.

K&R

and thanks.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. Is it treason yet?
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. So the party of Lincoln is now the party of Jim Crow.
Yes, Republicans really do hate minorities.
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
58. children, too
And vets. In fact, anything that slurps money away from their favorite sinkhole: war and terra.



Cher
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BonnieJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #58
75. And their pockets!
Don't forget their pockets. There's no return on investing in the health and education of our children, or helping a returning vet get a new life. It might make you feel good but it doesn't add to your personal bottom line like stock in Halliburton, or Exxon, or KBR, or Lockheed Martin, or Northrup Grummann. Did I forget anyone?
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. The proof of voter fraud here eludes me, but then again, I'm a liberal
The valuable documents were lists of registered voters who did not return address confirmation forms to the Ohio Board of Elections. The Republican operatives compared this list with lists of voters who requested absentee ballots. In the opinion of one of the strategists, the fact that many names appeared on both lists was evidence of voter fraud. "A bad registration card can be an accident or fraud. A bad card AND an Absentee Ballot request is a clear case of fraud," according to former Bush-Cheney campaign staffer Robert Paduchik.

Isn't it possible that voters requested absentee ballots because they were not going to be at home, sitting by their mailboxes waiting for fraudulent RNC letters to show up? Maybe they were in the Hamptons, or Iraq, or maybe they threw the RNC mail in the crapper where it belongs.


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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
45. Or, alternatively, they were recently unemployed and semi-homeless,
and requested absentee ballots because they didn't know exactly where they would be living - at Aunt Mable's or cousin Joe's. That would also explain not returning confirmation notices, as they were moving between residences.
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. We know this! So much has come out & will continue to come out. Yet so many DUers ....
Edited on Thu Jul-26-07 03:59 PM by LaPera
and democrats refuse to believe there are any problems, simply because the Dems won back congress by a razor thin slim margin...It should of been a lot large margin for the Dems if not for so many suspicious races with the republican owned electronic voting machines ALL going to the republican candidates!

The republicans are primed going into 2008 with 90% of their machines now in place all around the country...and they'll be much better at it and much more discreet than in 2004...


Still, the Dems have done nothing and just don't believe, amazing...The Holt Bill does nothing and Diane Feinstein's bill is even worst.

Hand counted paper ballots (including provisional paper ballots) hand counted with audits! We have to demand it!

The Dems refuse to get it.... and we'll be the ones that pay.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I don't understand it either
Unless it's not wanting to close loopholes they might use themselves, just like I've always suspected that at least some Dems want the power Bu$h has grabbed to remain there for them to use when they get the chance (if they do).

They all need to be reminded that we the people are the owners of this country, and that it's on the basis of one person, one vote, not who kicks in the most money or pulls the most dirty tricks.

Hand counted paper ballots mean more to me than impeachment/criminal charges, and that's saying something.
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I'm with you, everyones vote being accurately counted should be the # 1 most important issue on
Edited on Thu Jul-26-07 04:26 PM by LaPera
everyone's mind...if we can't vote them out, and they continue to put republicans in stolen elections in office nothing can change, the courts, the wars, health care, nothing!

Who gives a shit how long it takes (besides the republicans and the TV networks) making sure EVERY vote is properly and accurately counted is far more important than speed!

Anyway, there's always over 2 1/2 month's before they take office in January after the election anyway, so speed is NOT a priority...accuracy IS!
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
60. Dems and power
Dems want the power Bu$h has grabbed to remain there for them to use when they get the chance (if they do).

I doubt it. They don't know what to do with power when they have it, much less "covet" more.



Cher
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #60
76. Disagree
A bunch of the questionable Democrats (DLC) helped bush* build the Unitary Executive.
The last thing they want is a government of the People.
The People can really mess up good business deals demanding things like accountability, transparency, and Human Rights.
Much better to have decisions made by a Board of Directors than an electorate.

Last month Pelosi and Rangel negotiated a secret Free Trade Deal DIRECTLY with Bush* . This secret deal was written by BIG BUSINESS without the input of LABOR, Environmentalists, OR the Democratic Caucus. When Rangel was asked WHY the Democratic Caucus was NOT included or even given a copy of the secret deal, Rangel responded, "They would just mess things up".


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-28-07 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #76
87. excellent point
I wasn't aware of that particular instance--but there have been many others in the past that I was aware of and should have thought of.

Yes, the true answer to this situation is not the pink tutu Dems--it's that we the people really have no representation whatsoever and it's time to stop pretending that we do.



Cher
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
39. That is the ONLY answer right now = paper ballots
Paper ballots with random audits (hand-counted).

Actually I think the Dems KNOW very well exactly how bad the election system is...they just don't know how to fix it before the election. So many of the State Boards of Elections are compromised, and the states that have sunk all their HAVA money into paperless e-voting don't want to look like fools (or in some cases criminals). Naturally the Repug-owned e-voting companies have NO interest in seeing any reform bills passed and work to block them.

Some reforms have happened at state level, but everyone is so busy trying to come up with "paper trails" to make the e-voting machines look less like lemons, that they "overlook" the obvious--paper ballots--the much safer and much CHEAPER way to go. But it's so lo-tech y'know.
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
14. Ya shouldn't have made that phone call, John.
Ya shoulda stuck it out. Ya shoulda fought.
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
37. Absolutely. Why, John, why didn't you?
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. John had no choice IMO
It's taken years for evidence to get out. John knew exactly what he was up against, especially after 2000. The Rethugs and the media would have shredded him into bitesize pieces. There is no effective procedure for overturning a presidential election in this country.

Remember that the media wasn't even reporting the KNOWN problems with the election at that point. There was a complete blackout. They'd have pasted the Sore Loserman label on him & made him go through holy hell. And in the end he would have still lost.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #42
71. exactly - Also consider where we would be had he done so
The party would likely have been severely damaged and Kerry completely destroyed. This would have left the party with a greater need to repair damage. (Think of how this would have been portrayed - especially as Bush hit Fallujah.)

Part of the party would have been devasted and racked with anger beyond what happened in 2004. The other part would have turned on Kerry. As it is one of the things that helped in moving forward, for some of use, was Kerry's unusual very informal email that pleaded with people to continue the fight for the ideas the campaign had been focused on.

Kerry has been, in spite of party leaders not supporting him, one of the people who led the Democratic side best in 2005 and 2006. With due credit to Howard Dean, who did an incredible job rebuilding devasted state parties, Kerry pushed Democratic goals.

Nowhere was this clearer than on Iraq. In the NYT magazine, "Hillary's War", she is described as angry and sarcastic that Senator Kerry was aggressively challanging Bush on the war - because "we control nothing". Kerry's expressed reason for pushing for change was "that it is immoral to not speak out when you think the policy is wrong and soldiers lives are being lost." Hillary was thinking of politics, Kerry about policy, but as it turned out he was correct politically as well.

Likewise, Kerry chose to fight on Alito where others preferred to simply make speeches and vote against the nomination. With more backing, the arguments that Alito represented a very non MSM point of view could have won over libertarians and conservative Republicans.

The gains in 2006, were based not just on how bad the Republicans were, but how many Democrats worked very hard to keep people fighting.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #71
74. I've admired Kerry's comeback from the Selection of 04
It was devastating and a lesser individual might have just given up completely. But he's still fighting the good fight and I trust he will continue to do that.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #37
54. Because that was in 2004, and this hasn't come out until 2007
Explain how he was supposed to pull evidence together within 72 hours to

1) challenge the election with any level of credibility and
2) come anywhere close to having enough votes counted to make his margin (140k IIRC) anywhere close in Ohio.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #54
77. They KNEW about OHIO at least 1 year in advance.
We KNEW that the Republicans were going to try to steal Ohio in late 2002. We (Du, the "fringe Left") worked very hard (E-Mail, Phone Calls, snail mail) to inform the Democratic Party and the Kerry campaign about Ohio.
They ignored us.

Check the archives.

After 2000, "We didn't know" is NOT an acceptable excuse for the Democratic Party.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. That wasn't Kerry's problem, particularly in 2002 and 2003
That was the DNC's problem, and McAuliffe dropped the ball. How was Kerry supposed to bring his campaign back from the brink in late 2003 while simultaneously securing the vote in Ohio, Florida etc. when he had, what... seven million dollars in his account?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #80
83. Not good enough.
I expect more from our leadership, especially those who are running for the top position.
Blaming the DNC is a weak excuse. As the Democratic party nominee, Kerry could have DEMANDED that the DNC prioritize Election Fraud and allocate the resources of the ENTIRE Democratic Party to deal with it.

Kerry KNEW!
The DNC KNEW!
We told them!

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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. Kerry, as the nominee?
You mean from, say, March 2004 onward? Too late by then in any case. This is a longstanding problem that could have only been addressed long before the election, long before Kerry or any 2004 candidate was seriously in the race, not to mention the nominee. Besides, for all we know Kerry could have ranted and raved at the top of his lungs for action from the DNC, but if they didn't agree (and we see how our old leadership, Carville and all reacted to Kerry's midnight attempts to keep the count in question) then what was he to do?

Essentially, what you're saying is that Kerry should have fixed in eight months all by himself (while running the campaign as well) what still hasn't been fixed *now* when it's become an even greater priority and the focus of attention for an even larger group of activists and political operatives than before. Explain how he was supposed to actually make that happen.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. Right
the mess that is the American election system didn't happen overnight and there's not much Kerry could have done to fix it while running his own campaign.

It's NOT the candidates who should bear the biggest responsibility for fixing it anyway--they are not in a good position to do that. It's the parties and state/local governments who have looked the other way for so many years who dropped the ball. They saw it as too convoluted to bother with, but they have known for a long time that elections in America are a sham. The rest of the population just went along with it, assuming that the person with the most votes usually wins and that cheating is minimal. HA--the selections of 2000 and 2004 have put the lie to that little delusion... :thumbsdown:
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. Wow...just frickin' wow....
...
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
16. Can we have our redo now? nt
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. It's official. Bush stole BOTH elections. n/t
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
21. Looks like the ballot box is rigged. So is the soap box, since
the GOP owns the media. Time to go to the third box?
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. What would that thrid box be,
pray tell?

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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. LMAO !!!!!!
:rofl:
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
22. Can we place this new story in the...
DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! column?
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
23. We didn't have U.S. Attorneys we had Button Men
this is why the white house is fighting so hard to hide what they did with the U.S. Attorneys.

Impeach these fuckers now


1. button man

Hit-man or mafia soldier. Button men usually do the dirty work/muscle work for their mob bosses.

For numerous reasons, button men have very limited direct contact with the mob bosses/family heads- there are usually buffers between the button men and their bosses.

I'm a button man...When the boss says to push a button on a guy, I push a button...


2. button man
6 up, 6 down
n., a low-ranking member of an organized crime syndicate

The Don's territory is patrolled by hundreds of armed button men
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
24. What needs to happen is prison sentences. Since we have criminals running the country
nothign will happen though.

I want to throw up.
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. And they should do their time at Gitmo!
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babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. YAY!
:bounce: :toast:
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babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Can we get this to Keith Olbermann?
Our only hope?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
27. Wow.
Thanks PBS!
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
29. I know the "mainstream media" will ignore this, but getting NOW coverage is good.
The media would have to run "the other side," whatever that would be, but I will watch and tape NOW, and hope for the best.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
30. The "White"house will argue that Democrats side with the terrorists...
so this was all done for national security reasons and details should be kept confidential. :puke:
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
31. Voters were challenged in Missouri in 2004 as well.
Bet on it...same schemes were rampant. I knew several people who thought they had registered outside a public library only to find out that they weren't registered on election day. A company in Arizona was accused of having people fill out registrations and then shredding Dems. Sooo, piles of people showed up thinking they were registered and they were rejected. And the proof got shredded. The first accusations came out of Nevada I believe.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. That was Nathan W Sproul & Associates
They acted and dressed like "America Coming Together" but
had their people under "Move America Forward."

Bush/Cheney 04 paid Sproul over $10,000,000. The final money
was for their help in Ohio's recount.

Sproul was thrown out of South Dakota for his acts.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Ding! Ding! Ding!
That is exactly who I was thinking of.....and I remember that his HQ in AZ was in the same building as McCain.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #32
63. I would love to see an indepth expose on Sproul.
Real USAs would have been all over that guy and his "associates".
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scarface2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
33. what do you expect from the reThuglikans?!?
they could never get elected straight up...they are totally whacked!!!
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
34. sue the RNC to oblivion nt
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freedomfries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
36. thanks for the post Bonnie
the truth is slowly dripping out, drop by drop......
:think:
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
40. Truthout is the source??? More Karl Rove indictments???
I'll wait until the story has wings (a reliable source) before getting excited about it. I'm tired of disappointments.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. "Voter Caging" on "NOW" airing Friday, July 27 on PBS
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Also see: interview with former US attorney for New Mexico David Iglesias
Also see:
Truthout's interview with former US attorney for New Mexico David Iglesias •

View exhibit three here.
View exhibit sixteen here.
View RNC emails here.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #44
66. I don't waste my time visiting Truthout's website anymore. It lost all
credibility for me over that fraudulent Rove indictment story, and the absolute refusal of all involved at Truthout to recant and withdraw their spurious claims.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #43
65. I just might. PBS is more reliable than Truthout.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
46. k&r n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
47. 2000, 2002, 2004 . ... when did we last have an honest election?
These machines have been in place since the late 60's . . .
That was the basis of journalists' book "VOTESCAM" --

Nixon vs Humphrey -- maybe Humphrey actually won?

of course, Reagan vs Carter was an October Surprise/propagandists' steal --
I'm wondering how unlucky any president can get with helicopters going down in the desert?

Thanks also to Greg Palast for uncovering these vote scams --


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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #47
86. Not just machines but you have to
also look at procedures.

Anyone who thinks we have "honest" elections in this country is in for a shock. They are just more corrupt or less corrupt. The close races are where the fixes happen.

This was a pustule that's been ready to pop for a very long time. The ease of cheating with electronic devices, along with the other crimes of the Bushies has finally blown it open.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
48. Grrrr
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing.
Those who count the votes decide everything."

- Joseph Stalin

Though this isn't the aspect of their criminality at issue here I think it appropriate. May these facist pigs rot in their hell :mad:
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
49. k&r
paper ballots now.

:dem:

-Laelth
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TheOtherMaven Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Paper isn't foolproof either
There are simply far too many ways to rig an election if somebody really wants to do it.

From what I've heard, the least riggable method (and it was far from foolproof) was actually the old push-lever voting machines that were taken out of use because no one was making them OR replacement parts any longer...so when one broke down, the only thing that could be done was to junk it. :(

I'm a bit sentimental about those old machines - I cut my voting teeth on them.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #50
70. I cut my voting teeth
Edited on Fri Jul-27-07 09:01 AM by marions ghost
on paper ballots, and it works the best IMO. Like you say, procedures have to be improved as well. It's not only about equipment.

Paper Ballots = technically card stock fed into optiscan readers at the precinct. This system is efficient and relatively cheap (you only need one reader per precinct (maybe 2 if very large). Screw-ups are extremely rare.

The optiscan system can be made safer by using random audits and open software on the scanners and tabulators. It is easy to do recounts with paper ballots. A lot of cities and counties are happy with them. We just need to add some long overdue checks and balances to the procedures.

Use the scanners to check the hand counts and the hand counts to check the machines. Pretty simple.
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #49
59. Hand Counted Paper Ballots, Say NO to mechanical/electronic vote counting
Hand Counted Paper Ballots NOW!!!!
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smiley_glad_hands Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
51. Have we gottne any input from Cindy Sheehan on this?
Since she is all things progressive these days.
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oldgrowth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
52. k&r
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
53. HELLO! .. I doubt that Tim Griffin was more than an operative taking orders.
"The efforts to purge voters from registration rolls was spearheaded by Tim Griffin, a former Republican National Committee opposition researcher. ..."

"Griffin, a former protege of Karl Rove, was formerly research director of the Republican National Committee. In 2004, BBC News published a report showing that Griffin led a “caging” scheme to suppress the votes of African-American service members in Florida." http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/30/griffin-resigns

These articles fail to understand/acknowledge the hierarchy of the organization that committed these crimes. Griffin was just a worker in a much larger organization. The focus needs to shift up the political chain-of-command to the Decider.

Whose idea was this? How long has it been going on?
Who illegally purged the Florida voters in 2000, resulting in Gore losing Florida? That's a good point to focus on!!

================================

Kenneth B. Mehlman, Former WH Director of Political Affairs, Former RNC Chairman=
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Ken_Mehlman

Kenneth B. Mehlman is a lawyer, Republican activist and partner in the law and lobby firm Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer & Feld. ...
Mehlman formerly chaired the Republican National Committee, was campaign manager for George Walker Bush's 2004 re-elected bid, and served as Deputy Assistant to President Bush and Director of Political Affairs on Bush's White House Staff, as well as chief of staff to Rep. Kay Granger (R., Tex.).

From 1996-1999, Mr. Mehlman was Rep. Kay Granger's (TX-12) chief of staff and he oversaw the political, legislative, and communications operations. Previously, Ken was Rep. Lamar Smith's (TX-21) legislative director from 1994-1996.

In addition to running Granger's campaign, Mr. Mehlman worked on William Weld's successful 1990 campaign for governor of Massachusetts, Ohio Sen. Mike DeWine's 1994 campaign, and House races in Virginia, Texas, and Georgia. He worked on Sen. Bob Dole's 1996 campaign, the 1996 Republican National Convention and President George Herbert Walker Bush's 1992 re-election campaign.

NOTE: Rep. Lamar Smith, Mehlman previous employer, is the House Judiciary Committee Ranking Member, the oversight committee which investigated Mehlman.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Sara_Taylor
Sara Taylor is White House political director for President George W. Bush. (needs an update, re employment status)

Beginning July 2, 2003, Taylor served as Deputy to the Chief Strategist, Matthew Dowd, for the Bush-Cheney '04 Inc. re-election campaign: "Taylor worked for the White House as an associate political director (Midwest) doing political and public affairs outreach. During the 2000 campaign she worked from late April 1999 through Januay 2000 as coalitions director for Bush's Iowa caucus campaign, then did field work in the SC, VA, WA and IL primaries, and finally served as executive director of the Michigan campaign. Previously Taylor worked for two years at the Tarrance Group, the No. Va. polling firm headed by Ed Goeas. In 1995-96 she worked on Sen. Phil Gramm's presidential campaign in Iowa." (1)


George W. Bush-Campaign Organization
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/bush/bushorg.html

Bush Cheney '04, Inc.

Marc Racicot = Chairman, June 16, 2003. Prior to taking the position of campaign chairman, Racicot served as chairman of the Republican National Committee; elected January 2002. Governor of Montana, 1993-2001. Attorney General of Montana, 1988-92. .....

Ken Mehlman = Campaign Manager, May 16, 2003. Director of political affairs at the White House Jan. 2001. National field director for Bush/Cheney 2000.

Kelley McCullough = Deputy to the Campaign Manager for Campaign Operations, May 30, 2003. Associate director of political affairs at the White House, Jan. 2001-Jan. 2002. Alabama director for Karl Rove + Company, 1997-2000.

Coddy Johnson = Field Director, July 17, 2003. White House associate director of political affairs since January 2001.

Matthew Dowd = Senior Strategist, May 16, 2003. Senior advisor to the RNC. Director of polling and media planning for the Bush-Cheney 2000 campaign. Prior: President and founding partner of Public Strategies Inc., Austin, Texas.

Sara Taylor = Deputy to the Chief Strategist, July 2, 2003. White House associate political director.

The Bush-Cheney 2004 campaign staff was largely on leave from the Bush White House.
As a strategist, Taylor was very much an insider on "campaign strategic operations," such as the the caging lists used to deny Black soldiers in Iraq their civil right to cast a vote. Also, note below the case of Bush's New England campaign chairman James Tobin, convicted of telephone harassment and accused of conspiring to violate voters' rights.

Imagine all the "useful information" the Deputy to the Chief Strategist of Bush-Cheney 2004 must have for the committees!
What do you suppose the odds-makers are offering that this is the sort of info Taylor's attorney, Bradford Berenson (the former Associate Counsel to President Bush under Gonzales at the White House), will have her offer up for immunity?

James Tobin
From SourceWatch
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=James_Tobin

James Tobin, of Bangor, Maine, President George W. Bush's New England campaign chairman, was convicted December 15, 2005, on telephone harassment charges "for his part in a plot to jam the Democrats' phones on Election Day 2002." Tobin was acquitted by the federal jury on "the most serious charge against him, of conspiring to violate voters' rights."

Tobin was sentenced May 17, 2006, "to 10 months in prison (minimum security recommended); 2 years probation, and a $10,000 fine.......

As New England campaign chairman for Bush-Cheney '04 Inc., Tobin stepped down two weeks before the election when state Democrats accused him of involvement in a phone-jamming scheme on Election Day 2002. Tobin was later indicted for conspiracy.

Tobin ... is an employee of the Washington, D.C.-based, DCI Group and also has his own consulting firm, Tobin & Co...

....2004 election cycle (Tobin) was a Bush Ranger, raising at least $200,000 for the Bush 2004 reelection effort.

Ralph Reed, Southeast Regional Chairperson (LA, MS, AL, GA, FL)
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Ralph_Reed

Q Was Ralph Reed involved in Florida voter caging or any other election irregularities?
Q Why did Mr. Rove arrange for Enron to pay large sums of money to Mr. Reed?

Executive director of the Christian Coalition, 1989-97, Ralph Reed was Bush-Cheney 2004 Southeast Regional Chairperson (LA, MS, AL, GA, FL)
Chairman of the Georgia Republican Party from 2001-2002, assisted campaign of U.S. Senator Saxby Chambliss, worked on seven Republican presidential campaigns, consultant and senior advisor to the Bush-Cheney 2000 campaign.

Reed is Founder and president of Century Strategies. Century Strategies received $250,000 from Capitol Campaign Strategies, one of Michael Scanlon's companies. Another Reed company, Capitol Media, is said to have sent an invoice to Jack Abramoff for $100,000 for "Louisiana Project Mgmt Fee."

FROM: DEAL OR NO DEAL? Abramoff's and Rove's ex-aide has "useful information" about Abramoff, White House
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x995236

================================

Playing Dirty ... cloak-and-dagger world of opposition research—the updated version of "dirty tricks"
The Atlantic Monthly | June 2004
by Joshua Green
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200406/green

... Barbara Comstock ... taking over the research team marked a significant change. She was a lawyer and a ten-year veteran of Capitol Hill who had been one of Representative Dan Burton's top congressional investigators during the Clinton scandals...: Filegate, Travelgate, assorted campaign-finance imbroglios, and Whitewater. ... Comstock put together a group of seasoned attorneys and former colleagues from the Burton Committee, including her deputy, Tim Griffin. "The team we had from 2000," she told... "were veteran investigators from the Clinton years. We had a core group of people, and that core was attorneys."

Griffin ... "We think of ourselves as the creators of the ammunition in a war," he says. "We make the bullets." ... campaign against Gore illustrates how what Bill Clinton referred to as "the politics of personal destruction" has become institutionalized ... a profession run by seasoned investigators, most of whom learned their craft on one side or another of the Clinton scandals ... have become the leading lights in the low-lit world of opposition research. ...

================================

Rise of a Very 'Loyal Bushie'
By Richard L. Fricker - March 28, 2007
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2007/032707a.html

If you want to know what the career path of a “loyal Bushie” looks like, let me introduce you to J. Timothy Griffin, a Karl Rove protégé who was slipped into the post of U.S. Attorney in Little Rock, Arkansas, and now is at the center of the controversy over whether the Bush administration has sought to politicize federal prosecutions.

Griffin has pretty much touched them all – the Federalist Society, work for a Clinton-era special prosecutor, the Florida recount battle in 2000, opposition research and voter security duties for the Republican National Committee in Campaign 2004, a brief tour as a military lawyer in Iraq, a deputy in Karl Rove’s political shop at the White House.

But now this carefully groomed Republican operative stands out as Exhibit A for Democrats as they contend that the Bush administration imposed political litmus tests on federal prosecutors who wield enormous power over the lives of those they investigate. ...

While at the New Orleans university, Griffin became a leader of the Tulane chapter of the Federalist Society, a powerful conservative legal organization and the chief training ground for right-wing lawyers dedicated to rolling back the liberal gains of the Warren Court and supportive of unrestrained presidential powers. ...

... he joined the Bush-Cheney (2000) campaign as deputy research director working for the Republican National Committee, what’s known in the Washington political world as “oppo” or opposition research ... Griffin’s résumé describes his job as “the primary research resource ... with over 30 staff.”

During the bitter Florida recount battle, Griffin served as legal adviser in Volusia and Brevard counties ... Bush rewarded Griffin in March 2001 with the job of special assistant to Michael Chertoff ....

==============================

Mark (Thor) Hearne, a Republican Party operative who had served as national election counsel for the 2004 Bush-Cheney presidential campaign.

The American Center for Voting Rights (ACVR) Ohio Report was submitted to Bob Ney's Government Administration Committee and the Department of Justice in March 2005 as evidence of extensive Democratic voter fraud and voter intimidation. Contributors (aka Felonious Bob's Jive Turkey List):
Mark F. (Thor) Hearne, II, William M. Todd, Mary C. Mertz, James E. Burke, Patrick F. Fischer, R. Patrick DeWine, Charles H. Gerhardt, III, Drew M. Hicks, Douglas G. Haynam, Mark R. Weaver, Mark Landes, Jeffrey Stankunas, Jack Morrison, Jr., Thomas M. Saxer, Thomas R. Houlihan, Tim A. Greenwood, James P. Silk, Jr.

The Free Enterprise Coalition (FEC) was a Republican front group established in 1998.
the GOP funneled $2.8 million through the Free Enterprise Coalition to fund election-related legal expenses between 2004 and 2005.
Free Enterprise Coalition board members, Robert L. Livingston, Chairman, Edward T. McMullen, Treasurer, Mark Elam, Richard Heffley, Dalton L. Oldham, Oscar Persons
Free Enterprise Coalition Affiliations = William M. Todd ... served as litigation counsel ... (as well as "general counsel for the Ohio Chamber of Commerce")
Political Contributions ...
* "On 12/21/06, Mac Thornberry (R-TX) disbursed $10,000 to the Free Enterprise Coalition in Washington DC for legal expenses."
* "On 9/14/06, Michael Burgess (R-TX) contributed $10,000
* "On 2/15/06 Kenny Marchant, a candidate for Texas state office, contributed $7.500
* John Linder (R-Ga.) contributed $1,225 for the 2005-2006 Cycle.

Hearne Created In-State "Voter Fraud" Front Group, Funded It With ACVR Dollars, Ran It with Fee Office Figure
Howard Beale - 06/13/2007 - http://www.firedupmissouri.com/hearne_acvr_cefm_lott_linked

FROM: FITRAKIS: Ohio, the DOJ scandal and "Thor" - the god of voter suppression
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1159656

=================================

With the possible exception of Starr, no one is more responsible than Ted Olson for paving the way for the Worst President Ever. ... Olson argued for the Bush/Cheney campaign in Bush v. Gore. ... he was rewarded with the position of solicitor general, a job once held by his friend Ken Starr ... who spent $60 million of the taxpayers’ money to smear the Clintons with allegations, much of which were generated by the Arkansas Project. ....

Conservative billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife. The Washington Post found that Scaife and his family's charitable entities have given at least $340 million to conservative causes and institutions – about $620 million in current dollars, adjusted for inflation. The total of Scaife's giving – to conservatives as well as many other beneficiaries – exceeds $600 million, or $1.4 billion in current dollars, much more than any previous estimate. ....

A conservative political organization with ties to the Rev. Jerry Falwell covertly paid more than $200,000 to individuals who made damaging allegations about President Clinton.... paid out over a three-year period, between l994 and l996, by Citizens for Honest Government, headquartered in Orange County.... ... Citizens for Honest Government's paid "expert witnesses" ... Nichols and three other individuals ... told the press that Clinton ... ordered state law enforcement officials to turn a blind eye to a cocaine trafficking ring ... because one of the ring's backers was a Clinton campaign contributor. They also alleged the drug smuggling ring was connected to a covert U.S. intelligence operation in Central America.

Rep. Jim Leach, (R-Iowa), chairman of the House Banking Committee, acknowledged in an interview in the fall of l996 that he had directed his committee staff to conduct a comprehensive investigation of the Mena allegations after first reading about them in the Wall Street Journal.

... House Speaker Newt Gingrich, R-Ga., ... personally urged that Leach investigate ... CIA Inspector-General ... concluded ... there was no evidence ... Leach's House Banking Committee requested the CIA investigation.

Who is Roger Stone, Jr.? Buckley, Nixon, Reagan, Bush operative.
"Roger J. Stone, Jr. is a long-time Republican dirty-tricks operative who led the mob that shut down the Miami-Dade County recount and helped make George W. Bush president in 2000. He was also a campaign strategist during the presidential campaigns of Presidents Nixon, Reagan and George Herbert Walker Bush. He is the chairman of the Fort Hill Group, a Washington, D.C.-based public affairs firm...." (From http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Roger_J._Stone,_Jr )

Who is Roger Stone? A slash-and-burn Republican black-bag election tamperer and consultant whose mentor was the repulsive Roy Cohn — the redbaiting hatchet man for Senator Joe McCarthy. Stone first made news in the Nixon Watergate scandal, when it was revealed that the 19-year-old apprentice McCarthyite had infiltrated George McGovern’s 1972 presidential campaign as part of CREEP’s sabotage plan. ... Stone helped Ollie North raise money for the Nicaraguan contras, and was a close associate of the notorious Lee Atwater ...

... Jeffrey Toobin ... the 2000 Florida election — details how Stone was summoned by Bush recount chief James Baker to disrupt the vote counting (Stone and his Cuban wife, Nydia, organized a screaming mob of Miami Cubans outside the headquarters of the canvassing board — Stone directed the mob by walkie-talkie from across the street — and intimidated the board into ending the count).....

FROM: Bush vs. Gore, the 'Arkansas Project,' the USA firings, and the Swiftboat Admiral
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1029113
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
55. John Kerry would have won in 2004, Bush should not be here
no wonder he had that smirk the night of the 2004 elections
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
57. Rehnquist was doing it in 1964.
In 1964, William Rehnquist (yes that guy, now dead Chief Justice) was busy discouraging people at the polls from voting for Lyndon Johnson.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-26-07 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
61. This can help kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Tim Griffin is now working for Fred Thompson; Thanks Bonnie
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waldo_evans Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
62. Dems knew that back in
fucking 2000!

What have they fucking done so far to stop it? Nothing.

Get real, nothing will ever change.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
64. AHEM! -- Why is that the Dems don't care to revamp voting procedures?
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urgk Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
67. For everyone out there who's still a little confused...
During the last two elections, I kept hearing the same thing out in the general population: "Both parties are the same. It's just the lesser of two evils or the evil of two lessers." For anybody you meet out on the street or talk to at work who still gets confused, let me put it simply:

The Democratic party doesn't want African Americans to vote Republican. The Republicans don't want them to vote at all.



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april Donating Member (826 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
68. thanks so much ...maybe we will get to see the light of day soon!
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
69. Don't forget->PBS NOW tonight July 27 @ 8:30pm!
Was there a White House plot to illegally suppress votes in 2004?



http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/25047

Was there a White House plot to illegally suppress votes in 2004?

NOW on PBS:

Is there a similar plan for the upcoming elections? On Friday July 27 at 8:30 pm (check local listings), NOW examines documents and evidence that points to a Republican Party plan designed to keep Democrats from voting, by targeting people based on their race and ethnicity. Congress is investigating, and so are we. We speak with David Iglesias, one of eight fired U.S. Attorneys, who says he lost his job because he refused to go along with the White House plan to suppress votes. The NOW website at www.pbs.org/now will feature an extended interview with David Iglesias and reveal key e-mails and documents covered in our investigation.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. Start a new thread to remind DUers about the program n/t
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
78. Only five states? I would think they used some form of vote suppression
...everywhere they could, probably in all fifty states to some degree or another. The arrogance and confidence they reThugs showed going into the last two national elections certainly demonstrated they knew where they stood and why.
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Limelight Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
79. Still confused about caging...
Ok, the article defines caging as "Vote caging is an illegal tactic to suppress minorities from voting by having their names purged from voter rolls when they fail to respond to registered mail sent to their homes. The Republican National Committee signed a consent decree in 1986 stating they would not engage in the practice after they were caught suppressing votes in 1981 and 1986."

For a second it didn't make any sense cuz I was thinking if people don't confirm their address this official mailing to do so why shouldn't people be suspicious. Then it hit me... "Wait, who is it that's sending these "registered mail" messages? Is it the state or country that frankly I would agree has the right to demand that potential voters confirm their address or is it the RNC?

Now if it's the state I say this is much ado about nothing. Write your actual damn address down correctly and you have no issues. But see if it's the RNC that's sending out these letters then coming back to the state or country and saying "Oh, they wouldn't confirm to us they're living at such and such so they shouldn't be able to vote"... Now that's bullshit.

Hell I've been registered for a long ass time, but if someone one from the RNC sent me a letter to confirm my address like I have to confirm shit to them I'd do that old trick where you fold the paper in half and rub it together for a long time to make it soft. That way I wouldn't get a paper cut on my behind after I took a dump and used the letter to wipe my ass with. Is that what caging is? The Republicons sending out mail demanding voters confirm to them their addresses are real when in fact the voter has absolutely no legal obligation to explain or confirm a damn thing to anyone but the state or county?

Somebody help me out here...:shrug:
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
81. ISO Some solid legal information re attorney firings
Have been in a difficult discussion with a friend who doesn't understand how the attorney firings warrants what he calls a witchhunt. I'm having trouble getting through to him with my perspective as he only can deal in black-and-white facts, and I am poor at recalling or presenting documented facts.

All of this seems a no-brainer to me; but this friend is exceptionally difficult to communicate with on these matters.
:banghead:
However he is nevertheless open-minded; just requires proof.

SO if someone can direct me to some verifiable knowledgeable legal sources to explain in black-and-white what it's all about -- without any inferences, assumptions, or bias -- please post or send me a message. Thanks.

His basic argument: that the president can fire attorneys whenever he feels like it, and for whatever reasons he chooses. Says that the investigation, in his opinion, is about why the attorneys were fired. He has not specifically heard that specific crimes are being investigated.

Questions:
Is it legal for the president to fire the attorneys, no matter the reason?
Is it the attorney firings that are being investigated, or is it the "possibility" that a crime was committed?
If the latter, why do they keep trying to find out why the attorneys were fired?
What are the precise crimes that are being investigated?


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