If you have absolute proof that Hillary Clinton WILL bomb Iran...please post it here...

[cynatnite]

Not her speeches saying that all options are on the table. That's rhetoric. Politicians love rhetoric, but it doesn't mean a damn thing unless there is absolute proof they are going to do something like bomb Iran.

If anyone plans to claim that a candidate is going to do something once they get into office, back it up with proof or a quote of them saying they will drop some bombs once elected. Hillary, Obama, Edwards or others have voiced their opinion that all options are on the table in regards to Iran because they are running for public office. They want to be seen as being strong and would use military force. That doesn't automatically mean they will use it at the first drop of a hat.

[earthlover]

1. Could anyone have absolute proof that Bush was going to invade Iraq in 00?

[cynatnite]

3. There was a lot more to support that theory...

than there is that Hillary is going to bomb Iran.

on edit: PNAC, IIRC, was a good indication.

[earthlover]

7. true enough, but by his public statements nobody would have suspected in 00

Same for Hillary. But again the question is what has she said opposed to a premature war in Iran. We all know she blew it by prematurely supporting Iraq. My question is, is there anything...ANYTHING....Hillary has said that shows she is reluctant to invade Iran? Iran has, by the way, aroused a lot of legitimate fears and people like Wes Clark have warned against an invasion of Iran, as have others pointing out the stupidity of such. But has Hillary EVER said anything even remotely in favor of RESTRAINT? WHen?

[movonne]

2. Be very wary of hillary...

[BlooInBloo]

8. Oooga booga! Clinton! Ooogba boooga!!!!

[earthlover]

4. Ok...forget about proof....can you show anything Hillary has said that shows she would be opposed?

Or....do you think Hillary would be willing to promise that she would engage in dialogue with Iran within the first year of her term in order to avoid a war? Just askin....

[cynatnite]

6. If you're asking for my opinion...

I don't think she'd be willing to make that promise without knowing details.

As far as being opposed...I left my crystal ball in the car.

[earthlover]

9. Details? You gotta be kidding! Details didn't stop her from voting for Iraq!

[cynatnite]

12. I'm soooo over the Iraq vote...

:eyes:

It's over. Done. No do overs. We're in the here and now. Can't change it. Now, it's time to be more concerned about getting out than worrying about a vote that happened years ago. Focus on the present and the future. Keep a careful eye on the past, but don't focus too much on it or you'll trip over something.

[earthlover]

14. It is not sooo over for the soldiers in Iraq or the people of Iraq....

But, as much as you would like us to forget Hillary's cheerleading for Iraq or being duped by Bush or whatever....I think it is a good prediction of someone's future by looking at her past. She went along with an insand war in Iraq. What is it that would indicate that she would not go along with an insane war in Iran? Again...I am asking you for help....has Hillary SAID anything...ANYTHING...hello....HELLO....that indicates that she is for restraint with regards to Iran. We all know her lack of restaint in Iraq. But, as you said...that is sooo past....so let's look at the present....what has she said in the present that indicates she has learned her lesson?

[cynatnite]

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

*yawn*

I didn't know that was coming :sarcasm:

And so did a lot of other politicians. Like I said, I'm over that vote and prefer to look to the here and now.

[earthlover]

22. The here and now is that US soldiers are dying, Iraqis are engaged in a civil war...

...the USA has lost credibility with much of the world including our allies...Al Queda is now as strong as before 9/11....

So the here and now has a LOT to do with what Hillary did THEN.

So...the question is....do we learn from history, or are we condemned to repeat it?

[cynatnite]

25. So it's all Hillary's fault now? And here I was blaming bush...

:eyes:

[emilyg]

31. Silly

Everything is Hillary's fault. :sarcasm: If I get a pimple on my arse - I'll blame Hillary.

[earthlover]

38. No, you said....

"Yeah, yeah, yeah...
*yawn*

I didn't know that was coming

And so did a lot of other politicians. Like I said, I'm over that vote and prefer to look to the here and now."

And what I am saying is that her vote THEN has responsibility. People TODAY are dying. You say...yawn....but their families don't yawn. What is with that? You say you're over that vote....boy the folks in Iraq wish it were over!!! You say look to the here and now. Here and now, people are dying. Being mutilated. Their families are missing fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, and children..... So you yawn.

Again, can you tell me anything Hillary has said that would indicate she is reluctant to inflict the same sad story in Iran?

Ok,,,,if you prefer....just yawn.

[cynatnite]

39. I'm not sure what more you're looking for...

I provided a recent quote for you in regards to Iran. See post #15.

[earthlover]

40. OK...I will help you...use google...look up Hillary's web site....

...has Hillary said anything, anything at all that shows she is opposed to invading Iran? YOU brought up the subject. Answer please.

[cynatnite]

43. Here you go...again...

Clinton said the administration has given Iran "six years of the silent treatment."

"In this vacuum, Tehran continues its progress toward developing nuclear weapons and increasing its influence in the region," she told the Center for a New American Security. "After initial talks with Iran and Syria on Iraq, the administration says it isn't sure that we need any more discussions with either of them. I think we should keep talking."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/06/27/r... /

This is dated June 27, 2007.

copy and pasted from post #15

[cynatnite]

16. dupe n/t

[leftchick]

32. she was NEVER DUPED! Biggest LIE she has ever said!

And you are right, it is so not over for the troops, or MILLIONS of Iraqis!

Thanks for proving you are such a war hawk Hil! :puke:

[GeorgeGist]

18. No do overs ...

kinda eliminates Hillary doesn't it ... or are you just too blind to read your own dissembling.

[leftchick]

33. apparently

completely blind.

:eyes:

[earthlover]

13. But you are asking for PROOF!

I won't even ask for proof. All I am asking....is if you can show me ANYTHING Hillary has said that shows she is in favor of diplomacy with Iran, that she is opposed to Bush's view that Iran is part of the "axis of evil", that she is in favor of dialogue with Iran and Syria, that she is in favor of restraint with regards to Iran.

Since you are asking for proof, what I am asking should be a chip shot....

[cynatnite]

15. I've never made any claim, but here you go...

Clinton said the administration has given Iran "six years of the silent treatment."

"In this vacuum, Tehran continues its progress toward developing nuclear weapons and increasing its influence in the region," she told the Center for a New American Security. "After initial talks with Iran and Syria on Iraq, the administration says it isn't sure that we need any more discussions with either of them. I think we should keep talking."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/06/27/richardson_moderates_key_to_iran_talks/

This is dated June 27, 2007.

[earthlover]

26. yeah...but she flip-flopped by condemning Obama for wanting to talk with enemies!!!!

Will the real Hillary please PLEASE stand up?

[cynatnite]

28. That's not what she was doing...

she felt his making a campaign promise to meet with those nations in the first year was wrong. IMO, it's as stupid as the campaign promise bush sr. made about 'no new taxes'. She never condemned him for wanting to talk to enemies.

Campaign promises do come back to haunt candidates who don't hold to them.

[earthlover]

41. oh yeah? then why didn't she mention "campaign promise"? Obama sure didn't!!!!

Please don't put words in Hillary's mouth. You are supposed to be on her side!

And also don't put words in Obama's.

[cynatnite]

45. Isn't it called a campaign promise when a politician makes a promise during a campaign? n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

17. You Can't Prove A Negative. But The OP Is Correct. Those Asserting It As If Certain Are Foolish

and wrong.

If they are going to accuse her of such then they should be able to provide evidence to such. If they can't, then they are doing nothing more than spewing bullshit deceitful rhetoric much like that we've come to know from fox news. There is no honor in that, but instead disgrace.

[The Straight Story]

5. Even if she said directly she would, she might change her mind later

so saying she 'will' is impossible to state with absolute certainty, although one could guess and get it right.

[cynatnite]

11. There are some who claim it's an absolute and that AIPAC is pulling her strings...

I asked for them to back up their claims and so far...nada.

[Bitwit1234]

10. Since Obama is flip flopping all over the place now would he

bomb Iran.

[BlooInBloo]

19. The smoking gun could come in the form of a mushroom cloud...

:rofl:

[cynatnite]

20. ...

:rofl: you slay me, bloo. you really do. :rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

23. heh! I felt pretty good about that one too, if I do say so myself. :)

[Junkdrawer]

21. Hillary 08 - Because No One can Absolutely Prove She'll Bomb Iran....

:rofl:
There's a Bumper sticker I'd love to see....

[cynatnite]

24. That is funny...

but I'm hoping to at least a little discourage others from making claims without proof. :)

[leftchick]

34. sad but true

and I ain't laughing.

[sniffa]

35. ...

:rofl:

[arewenotdemo]

54. Good one!

[earthlover]

27. Again...many people have spoken up against Iran....

Has Hillary said ANYTHING at all that would indicate she is AGAINST a war with IRan? After all, it is a topic of interest. And she HAS said tough words attacking Iran. So, again, what has she said that would indicate she would be hesitant to go to war with Iran? I lived 15 years in Missouri. SHOW ME!!!

[cynatnite]

29. I showed you in post #15

Anyway, as far as her rhetoric goes, many dems have said pretty much the same thing more than once.

[earthlover]

30. Yeah, but few of them have FLIP-FLOPPED like Hillary did by then attacking Obama for wanting to talk

It is really hard to figure out just what Hillary is thinking. Is she attacking Bush for silence? Or is she attacking Obama for breaking the silence? Correct answer: all of the above!

[cynatnite]

36. Here is what Hillary said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAlyYtJxaio

If you still think she attacked Obama for wanting to talk to enemies or wants to ignore diplomacy, you need to get your ears checked. It's plain spoken and to the point.

[earthlover]

42. Hillary called Obama naive...her word

It is NOT naive to talk to enemies. If we had talked more we could have avoided Iraq!!! Even Nixon talked with Red China, which was considered big bad enemy then. Even Reagan talked with Russia, part of the, as he put it, "evil empire". Today, General Wes Clark talks about engaging Syria, Iran and North Korea. Nobody would call a General Clark naive about foreign policy.

Yet, even though Hillary talked about dialogue just weeks ago....she now attacks Obama as being naive....

Obama is not naive. He shares a vision of foreign policy facing tough opponents that he has in common with Clark, Kennedy, Carter, and even Nixon and Reagan and a lot more. It is BUsh-Cheney who have departed from this tradition of speaking with enemies. And it is Clinton who carries on the mantle of the Bush-Cheney aberration from traditional US foreign policy.

Again, the question nobody has answered. Of course the question is posed to Hillary. And we STILL have not receieved an answer. What, Hillary, can you say is how you differ from Bush-Cheney on the issue of talking with enemies? The silence you hear is from Hillary....

[cynatnite]

44. She said his promise was naive...

not that talking to enemies was.

[earthlover]

48. hmmm....so talking is ok...but promising to talk is naive.....

Is that Hillary-speak or what?

I guess you can't pin Hillary down on anything. Even speaking her mind to our enemies. Naw...she wouldn't COMMIT to that. Hell, what WOULD she commit to? NOTHING!!!!!

[cynatnite]

51. She was very clear and has been...if you choose to ingore it...that's your right n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

37. An essential correction

This does not apply only to Hillary Clinton.

The language that causes the most concern among some of us regarding Iran is actually not the phrase "all options must remain on the table". That at least is suitably vague, useful in applying pressure without having to actually show our hand and draw a red line. It is the phrase "Iran must not under any circumstances be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons" which concerns me more, because that clearly takes one option off of the table completely, which happens to be an option that we are currently using with a nuclear armed North Korea, and is the same option we used with China and the Soviet Union also: Continued negotiations and a policy of containment.

Flatly stating that the U.S. can not co-exst with an Iran that has nukes plays well into the Bush - Cheney script. They will claim a consensus on that point across partisan lines, and then the only little detail that will be left for them to attend to before launching an attack on Iran before they leave office, is to come up with some experts who claim that Iran was on the verge of gaining dangerous nuclear weapons expertise forcing us to act now before their program progressed beyond a point of no return.

[earthlover]

46. The Democrat who has spoken loudest against an Iran War is Wes Clark!

Hillary has said nothing, sorry to say. She is not the only one.

The time to stop a war is before it is started.

[cynatnite]

47. It's always easier to ignore it like it never happened, isn't it? n/t

[earthlover]

49. Well, unless you can prove otherwise, I will have to conclude Hillary has NOT opposed war in Iran

Hillary...the Peace Candidate.....Hillary....the anti-Iraq candidate...Hillary....the candidate who supported George Bush when he invaded Iraq....Hillary the candidate who said nothing when the Bush Adminsitration said Saddam would attack us if we didn't invade......Hillary the peace queen.....

NOT!!!!

[cynatnite]

50. And I did and you chose to ignore. Your choice n/t

[earthlover]

52. No, you gave a quote that Hillary self-contradicted by attacking Obama

Hillary HAS made strong statements AGAINST IRAN. So, since YOU are the one who first brought up the issue of PROOF....can you even give me any EVIDENCE that Hillary is opposed to a new War in Iran? Hint...Wes Clark and others have made it crystal clear their views...why hasn't Hillary?

PROOVE IT!!!!!

[earthlover]

53. Tell you what, I will give you the night to think...catch you in the AM....night!

[cynatnite]

55. Oh, for shit's sake! It's prove...not proove!

:)

Hillary has said the same rhetoric that many many dems have. It's all basically the same. It's RHETORIC. Politicians love that shit.

I supplied you the proof...a quote from last month. I didn't supply it once...I gave it to you TWICE.

And Wes Clark is not running for president of the US.

[earthlover]

57. you haven't answered my challenge

1) Wes Clark has spent considerable effort in trying to prevent a stupid war with Iran. Did I say he was running for President? Does it matter? The point is Wes Clark, someone with tremendous foreign policy prestige, much greater than Hillary's by the way, is working hard to prevent an insane war in Iran. Do you have a problem with that?

2) I have asked you for anything that shows that Hillary is opposed to war with Iran. You parroted a couple of times a quote about dialogue, something Hillary NOW seems to pooh-pooh by going after Obama's mention of wanting to talk with enemies. No you did not prove (one o)that Hillary won't support a war with Iran.

In fact, here is a quote from Hillary that concerns me..."NEW YORK: Calling Iran a danger to the U.S. and one of Israel's greatest threats, U.S. senator and presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton said "no option can be taken off the table" when dealing with that nation.

"U.S. policy must be clear and unequivocal: We cannot, we should not, we must not permit Iran to build or acquire nuclear weapons," the Democrat (Hillary) told a crowd of Israel supporters. "In dealing with this threat ... no option can be taken off the table."

No...option...can...be...taken....off...the...table.

But, of course, it would be irresponsible or naive to promise to talk with Iran first!!!!

What Hillary has done is on the one hand try to imply that the Bush administration is not forceful enough against Iran....and then come back to us and...years after her support for Iraq, try to sell herself as an anti-war candidate.

So, I ask you again...beings as how Hillary has made such forceful statements about nothing, except promised dialogue, being off the table with Iran....what has Hillary said that shows that she is opposed being tough, even going to war with Iran....

PS...if you can find such a quote, you certainly will provide proof of yet another Hillary flip flop.

[Lilith Velkor]

56. How the fuck do you prove something that hasn't happened yet?

Your demand is as bogus as the claims you think you are countering.

Clinton WOULD bomb Iran if she thought it were necessary, in my *opinion.* That doesn't mean she WILL.

And if you are trying to invite comparisons between your crystal ball and somebody else's, that's just silly bullshit.