When our Democratic Senators voted with Bush on the war

[sidwill]

what they really were doing was this, vacating their duty as Senators in a crass attempt to preserve their political viabilty.

After all, what if we had found WMDs, or found out Osama nad Hussein really were best buds.

Can't take the risk that Bush might be right can we? So lets step out of this kid's way, give him the keys to the war porsche and wait and see what happens.

This vacating of their responsibilities makes anybody who voted for this war unfit to lead this nation because they put their own political viability ahead of WHAT WAS RIGHT.

[mmonk]

1. They envisioned a previous Gulf war where it went quickly

and didn't want the fallout for opposing a popular war. That's what happens when you base decisions on the wrong reasons.

[jgraz]

2. I don't necessarily agree with all of that

but I'm all about the :popcorn: tonight

[leftofthedial]

3. Umm, I went through ten kinds of hell for saying this ever since they did it

and then again when they all announced they wanted to be prezdnt.

may you bear the brunt of less venom.

[sidwill]

6. I can't see how any Progressive could

think otherwise.

Hil and Edwards voted to step aside and let Bush do whatever he wanted, they rolled with the political winds and now tell us that they rae "sorry".

Is that good enough?

Would we accept that excuse from a republican?

And now the majority of us favor Hillary, overlooking her failure of character because she leads in sopping up corporate money and can put three words together without tripping over her tongue. Big Friggin whoop.

Sheesh, what a bunch of Rubes we are.

[ProSense]

9. I can't see how any progressive

can continue to perpetrate a BS argument that ignores that Bush violated the IWR and lied to Congress; an argument that implies that Bush had the go ahead to start the war. BS!

edited punctuation.

[leftofthedial]

12. anybody who believed he would not use the IWR to invade Iraq

is too fucking stupid to be President

[ProSense]

15. Anybody who believes he cared about the IWR

is too stupid! Anybody who voted against the timetable is gullible and anybody who voted to continue funding the war in June 2007 is simple.

Cover everybody?

[sidwill]

16. Word

Everybody on this board knew what Bush was up to fer christs sake, don't tell me the Senators couldn't fgure it out.

Hell he had already moved tens of thousands of troops to the Kuwaiti desert what else was he gonna do with them?

BTW the vote that pi@@ed me off the worst was Kerry's he knew he was running, he knew the war was bullshit and he was intimately familiar with the human cost of bullshit wars, yet he voted for the shit anyway.

[ProSense]

18. "Everybody on this board knew what Bush was up to fer christs sake"

Yesterday, a lot of people on this board thought Conyers sucked.

Run for president!

The IWR wasn't a vote for war, it wasn't a vote for Bush's "shit."

[politicasista]

19. Amen n/t

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

24. I was throwing things at my TV when that vote took place

I was opposing any notion of giving the President the authority to go to war or to cooperate in any way with a "War Resolution" where Bush would have anything to do with it. I even quit the Democratic Party on that day and reregistered as an Independent in protest. I stayed an Indie until the next election.

I imagine that if you yourself go back in your recollection, you probably were equally outraged at what SOME Democrats were doing in our legislature. The vast majority of Democrats didn't just wake up recently and say, "gee, this war sucks". Most of the grass roots were strongly opposed well before we ever went into Iraq. Why? Because Bush wanted to do it.

[ProSense]

27. No,

I understood what was happening. I remember when Bush lied. I remember all the calls for him to stay out of Iraq. To not launch the war. I posted a lot of them over the years. So no, I watched Bush rush to war and lie in the process.

[bvar22]

43. "A vote for the IWR is a vote for War"

Those Democrats who are saying "We didn't know" are LYING.
Everybody KNEW!
Those who voted FOR IWR (Iraq WAR Resolution) have blood ob their hands. THEY turned their backs on 4000 Americans and 100,000 Iraqis for political gain. SHAME on them.


These Democrats got it right, and had the judgment and integrity to vote against the IWR.

The Democratic Party Honor Roll
These Democrats should be remembered for their principled stand against the WAR Machine.

IWR

United States Senate

In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq :

Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
Barbara Boxer (D-California)
Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
Bob Graham (D-Florida)
Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
Patty Murray (D-Washington)
Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)


United States House of Representatives

Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Represenatives:

Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC)
John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland)
Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas)
Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
Inslee
Jackson (Il.)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E.B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
LaFalce
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren
Maloney (CT)
Matsui
McCarthy (MO)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller
Mollohan
Moran (Va)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rivers
Rodriguez
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Sawyer
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Slaughter
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (NM)
Udall (CO)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Woolsey
Wu

[ProSense]

4. The Democrats didn't vote with Bush on the war!

Bush is the Decider. It's Bush's war.

What has Bush done over the pass nearly six years that makes you think he gives a hoot about Congress' opinion?

Check out the lastest news. This is Bush's war.

Understanding the political posturing behind the incongruous sentiments "Dems voted with Bush on the war, impeach Bush for starting an illegal war," nevermind. Continue!




Bush's war!

[Middle finga]

11. Bush will be gone in a 1 &1/2 years we tax payers will be stuck with

the bill so in reality this is our war and our kids dying.

[ProSense]

14. In reality this is Bush's war (he's still in office) and

"our" kids are dying today. Bush's exit doesn't change the fact that he lied and pulled the trigger to start the war.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

20. "The Democrats didn't vote with Bush"

That's true. The majority of Democrats didn't vote with Bush.

But there were enough who voted with him that made the difference to pass the IWR. But you're saying in other posts that those Dems, the ones who voted with the Republicans were either duped or fooled? So how come the majority of Dems weren't duped, fooled, or suckers?

Sorry, I must be having a dense spell tonight. I don't get what you're trying to say.

[ProSense]

23. I said no such thing!

The IWR is what it is, a resolution laying out criteria to be met! Bush violated it. Bush lied, he didn't meet the criteria legally. Bush's war. Period!

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

26. Well, I'm still confused

In some posts, I THINK you're saying the Democrats didn't vote with Bush on the IWR, which is true. But in others, you SEEM defend those who did vote with the Republicans, saying Bush fooled them.

Anyway, I'll stop here. I'm not trying to give you a hard time. My beef is with the Republicans, Bush, and the mess this country is in.

[Usrename]

33. There are a couple problems I have with your take on this.

The IWR vote was scheduled a month before the midterm elections. The pragmatic view is that the Dems would have given up a super-majority to the Republicans if they had really whipped the vote to inhibit passage of the damn thing. They would have lost very big in the mid-term if they obstructed right before the election.

There might be an argument that they could have called for calm and a vote after the election, but that doesn't really accomplish anything as they would still have to go on record as to how they would vote.

So obviously, the time to mount an opposition to the invasion was after the mid-terms. Millions and millions of people demonstrating all around the world knew that this was a disaster before it ever got started. The largest demonstrations in the history of the world. Everyone KNEW!

And still, all the Dems that are running now SUPPORTED the invasion WHEN IT HAPPENED. Not one said that it was wrong, either legally or morally.

IIRC, Al Gore was the most forcefully outspoken person at that time (except Kucinich and perhaps Obama, both of whom were ignored by the media, just like the demonstrations were). No one, not a single voice in the party leadership said squat about this war being a mistake. This party leadership SUCKS!!!!

[ProSense]

38. Problem with your take:

"...all the Dems that are running now SUPPORTED the invasion WHEN IT HAPPENED."

Nonsense!

This is really becoming a silly exercise because by your statement the IWR is obviously less relevant than to the Democratic candidates current actions and positions on the war. It was even more irrelevant in 2004.

It was Bush's war then and it's still Bush's war. The IWR remains very relevant to proving Bush launched the war illegally.

Details.

[Usrename]

39. I understand that it is an unjust war.

And I also understand that a whole lot of war crimes have been committed by Bush and his cabal.

Do you think any of the candidates except Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel, and Ron Paul share this view?

[Breeze54]

45. Not all. Kucinich did not support it! (Obama didn't have a vote)

Kucinich At PBS Forum

WASHINGTON D.C. -

http://blog.4president.org/2008/dennis_kucinich/index.html

In a Presidential forum designed to focus on America’s domestic crises – poverty, sub-standard
education, job loss, crime, and HIV AIDS – Congressman Dennis Kucinich made a compelling and
enthusiastically applauded case that U.S. foreign policy, especially the war in Iraq, is sapping
the national resources to solve problems on our own shores.

Kucinich, the only Democratic Presidential candidate who voted against the original war authorization
in 2002 and every subsequent war-funding appropriation,

Kucinich published and widely circulated an intelligence analysis in 2002 refuting the Bush
Administration’s arguments for invading Iraq. He rallied 125 other members of the House to oppose
the war authorization bill. He has since publicly disclosed other documents revealing that the
Administration is pressuring the Iraqi government to adopt measures that would turn control of up
to 70% of Iraq’s oil to multi-national oil and energy corporations.

[Usrename]

46. I wish Kucinch were part of the party leadership.

I strongly believe that is exactly what the party needs, new leadership with people like Dennis. Unfortunately, the existing leadership will not allow it, AND they try to actively marginal people like him.

(Obama will have to become one of them, or else he will be marginalized by the leadership too.)

The leadership are the ones who all stood by Lieberman, even after he lost his primary. They are just like him, only they are more covert about it.

[Breeze54]

50. They're

scared shitless of him and the DLC has control of the message, for some FU reason!
I mean, look at the "debates"? They're only viewable by people who pay for cable TV!

:grr:

I agree with all of what you wrote. It's infuriating.

[Big Pappa]

25. Exactly

Some want their cake and eat it too.

[ProSense]

29. Oh, BS! n/t

[Big Pappa]

30. So what is bullshit.

Did Bushy hold a gun to the heads of the ones that voted yes. I think your right having anger at Bush over this but others bear some responsibility also.

[ProSense]

31. BS! Why would Bush have to hold a gun to their heads to

vote for a legally binding resolution stating clearly the criteria he had to meet?

He falsified the information, wrote a letter (five months after the vote) filled with lies to Congress and started an illegal war.

[motocicleta]

32. It would be easier to feel sympathy for our poor, wronged critters

who voted for the IWR yet didn't want war if one or twenty of them had done something, anything, to stop him when he was starting the war. They could have spoken out to the media about how he was violating the IWR. They could have led marches. Hell, they could have gotten themselves arrested for protesting themselves. They did nothing.

They deserve the blame this OP places on them. I admire your single-minded ability to focus on this being *s war, and I am sure the history books will agree with you, but HRC and JE deserve some measure of blame as well. In a fuckup of these proportions, even a small measure leaves a large stain.

[ProSense]

35. "They could have spoken out to the media about how he was violating the IWR."

A couple of them spoke out vehemently and visibly. Guess who?

[motocicleta]

42. Your memory of that time differs from mine.

[Big Pappa]

34. Well I guess

the Dem's that voted against the IWR were just a bunch of losers. Fact Bush wanted the IWR. Fact certain Dem's gave it to him. But I see you give them no accountability in their actions.

[ProSense]

36. Nonsense!

Bush doesn't care!

[Big Pappa]

40. Never mind

I guess you give anyone a pass as long as they have a D behind their name. This is not about Bush but our parties leadership.

[Dhalgren]

5. K&R! When you are right, you are right!

:applause:

[BlooInBloo]

7. Definitely a bad vote, but I'm in no position to say what was going through their heads.

[Middle finga]

8. I agree

[pocoloco]

10. Hell, some of them are even using stupidity as an excuse.

* was smart enough to fool them!

[aquart]

13. Yeah. Pretty much.

[mondo joe]

17. I'm afraid I can't wait for your sacred perfect candidate. My civil rights are at stake

so I'll need to go with the candidate closest to ideal.

[TruePatriot44]

21. The violation of the constitution was worse than the war

The democrats and republicans basically used the constitution to wipe their rear ends. Only congress has the right to declare war and those who supported the resolution basically crowned Bush emperor. They betrayed the citizens of the United States by allowing the executive branch a free pass to do whatever it wants. Now there is talk of attacking Iran and they better impeach Bush if he doesn't get a declaration of war first.

[politicasista]

22. Why don't you spend your energy holding Bush accountable?

Rather than letting him get away with his lies. That's what Dems are doing. You ever heard of the Downing Street Memo, setadeadline.com, just to name a few?


That's much more productive than continuing to blame Democrats for Bush's illegal war. He didn't care about the IWR, he was going to invade regardless.

Let him off the hook all you want that's your choice.

[JVS]

28. Amen!

[wildbilln864]

37. You are spot on there.............!!

Welcome to DU BTW! :hi:

[yurbud]

41. no, they didn't envision Bush being right on lies, they imagined oil companies smiling on them

with their checkbooks.

[leftchick]

49. that as well

it is sickening. :puke:

[Arugula Latte]

44. Yep -- It was a coldhearted calculation on the part of Hillary et. al.

She's not fit to lead the nation. We KNEW Bush was lying and the war was wrong. She did too, yet she chose to go along with it for political viability. That sickens me.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. It was "politics as usual" at it's most craven.

[leftchick]

48. well said and

I will NEVER vote for anyone who voted for that war, and the future Iran war. :grr: