About the family in Connecticut that was murdered

[Horse with no Name]

Does anyone else get the sickening deja-vu feeling about "In Cold Blood"?

[anniebelle]

1. Most definitely!

I heard some other families in that same neighborhood were burglarized by these sociopaths around the same time, but for some bizarre reason weren't targeted for murder. How scary is that?

[Horse with no Name]

2. Very scary.

I have a wealthy friend whose husband is a Doctor in Connecticut.
It is UNCANNY how much she looks like the wife who was murdered.
I honestly had to catch my breath when I saw the picture and heard "wife of a Doctor"...and my knees went weak.
It is horribly sad.

[theHandpuppet]

5. And apparently what they stole from one house was a family picture

I'm no psychiatrist, but Jeezil how bizarre is that? Then they go to another house and torture/murder the family.

Frankly, after hearing he rap sheet both of these men had, they shouldn't have been on the street to begin with. And there's the question -- when is enough, enough?

[WinkyDink]

23. According to a TV report, none of their previous crimes included violence.

[LisaL]

6. It's a horrible story.

[LisaL]

7. Maybe burglary wasn't the motive with this particular family.

Apparently these two men saw the mother and daughter in the store and followed them home.

[WinkyDink]

19. Maybe they were lucky enough not to have been home. Or the murderers hadn't yet got up their "nerve"

[LisaL]

82. No, they were at home.

I really think the Petit family might have been targeted for more than a burglary. Apparently the two alleged killers saw Mrs. Petit and her daughter in the store and followed them home.
Supposedly they thought the car was nice, but then they supposedly went out and bought air rifle and a rope. If the plan was to just go into the home quietly and take things, like they have allegedly done in other burglaries, why buy the air rifle and a rope?

[malaise]

3. Yes

That slaughter was a higher level of evil.

[Horse with no Name]

4. I was watching coverage of it today

and for some reason the Clutter family popped into my head. I read that book when I was very young and it was terrifying.
Very graphic and very well written. It has stuck with me for many years.

[malaise]

14. I also thought about a movie we saw on cable

last year - can't even remember the name but the hero was forced to withdraw money while his family was held hostage.

[peacefreak]

8. It reminded me of

Anthony Burgess' A Clockwork Orange. He called it, what 30 years ago? Awful times, droogie.

[mikeytherat]

9. I reminded me of a family's murder here in Richmond,

which also made me think of In Cold Blood immediately. Similar MO anyway - came to rob, didn't find much, killed entire family in gruesome manner.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/harvey_family/index.html

mikey_the_rat

[CTyankee]

10. In the CT murder, the mother was raped and strangled, the 11 year old

daughter was raped and tied to a chair, as was her 17 year old sister. The house was set on fire; the girls died of smoke inhalation.

These guys will probably get the death penalty if convicted. While I am against the death penalty, I find it difficult to have much feeling for these animals...

[mikeytherat]

13. In the case in our town (warning - graphic)

The family was bound and gagged, stabbed, had their throats slashed, then they were bludgeoned with a claw hammer - husband, wife and two girls, aged 4 and 9. If this was not enough, the house was then set ablaze. From the court case we learned that the father was killed last, after watching his family being killed. And what did the criminals get out of the robbery? A laptop and a wedding ring - nothing else. And this family was totally chosen at random - New Year's Morning, 10:00 a.m., they chose a house and came right through the front door.

mikey_the_rat

[truebrit71]

35. These animals are what the death penalty was designed for..

...I too typically am against the DP, but in this instance a good-old fashioned electrocution would suffice...

[CTyankee]

36. What I want to know is something about their backgrounds. I will bet

that they were both unwanted children and terribly abused when they were young. Such brutality on their part must be explained by something in their formative years. Let's not execute them until they have been examined by psychiatrists who specialize in this kind of research. It's scary to think these guys could have been in a supermarket with their next victims and evidently followed them home.

[truebrit71]

39. Fine. Ask as many questions as you like...

..then FRY 'EM....

I don't care how bad their lives MAY have been, I don't care WHY they did what they did, they must DIE for what they did, plain and simple...

In truth of fact, these two animals can't be dead enough...

Like I said, I am normally a dyed-in-the-wool anti DP proponent, but these scumbags are a rare exception...

[CTyankee]

41. But don't you wonder how these two got to be the way they are?

It may be that there are a certain number of monsters in the world and these are two of them. I don't know...

[truebrit71]

43. Not really. All I know is that they shouldn't be breathing the same oxygen as the rest of us...

.

[CTLawGuy]

74. you aren't against the DP

unless you are against it in all circumstances.

Justice is not about what is emotionally satisfying it is about what is morally right.

It's like saying, I'm normally for civil rights, but I don't want black people to be allowed to be president. Does that sound like someone who is for civil rights?

[Red State Rebel]

40. I Don't Buy It

I had a physically abusive stepfather and was molested by my grandfather as a child. I have yet to rape or murder anyone. Our lives are the results of the choices we make.

[Bluerthanblue]

42. tell that to

the father who has to live without his wife and daughters.

I understand your point, and i too, am a survivor, but i cannot ignore the fact that what we experience- most especially as vunerable children, CAN warp and twist people into something quite different than what they would have been.

The reason it is not only important, but vital to question "why" as the abpve poster does, is that this is the only HOPE we have of trying to avoid repeating this kind of nightmare.

And if you came through your past unscathed, i salute you. My past forever altered my present and future, i simply turned my rage inward- which in the end, has harmed more than just me....

peace,
blu

[CTyankee]

60. But I think there must be those who have an "off" switch on their decisionmaking

process. These people must be our pathological monsters just waiting to spring loose. I cannot understand it otherwise. I am just depressed and downright dumbfounded. It is horrible...

[LisaL]

55. And I bet you would be wrong. One of them was adopted as a

baby, by an apparently well off family. Usually people adopt children because they want them. Isn't it possible that some people are just "bad apples?" You simply can't blame everything on abuse.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

70. Lots of people are abused and unwanted as children....

They don't brutally murder and rape people. It's the decisions you make that are to blame for your actions, not someone else's.
Duckie

[Midlodemocrat]

24. I grew up in the town right next to Cheshire

it was literally down the street from my house.

And, then we moved to Richmond...murder capital of the world.

Very, very creepy. Especially since my own daughters are 11 and 17.

[CTyankee]

25. I live in New Haven. Cheshire always seemed so colorless to me.

And not particularly wealthy. I think I've been there twice.

My daughter looks a little like the mother in this case and my oldest granddaughter is 11. I cannot stand even the thought of anything bad happening to them. But it makes you realize that you must be vigilant. The Pettit family felt so secure they left a door unlocked that night.

Maybe living in New Haven has alerted me to possible danger. I NEVER leave the house unlocked, even when I'm home during the day. Mercifully, a state trooper lives across the street and leaves his trooper car in his driveway overnight. I always hope that any bad guy would bypass my street, not wanting to take a chance with law right there...

[NewJeffCT]

34. Cheshire

there are a lot of "older" ranch homes there that were built in the 40s, 50s and 60s, but you'll find that in a lot of "wealthy" towns in Connecticut - Simsbury, Farmington & Glastonbury come to mind because I know those towns. (I think Avon is an exception in the Hartford area because its grown so much over the past decade and most of those homes are bigger) The location of Cheshire, and the fact that the surrounding towns have so-so schools, make the town stand out. And, unless those older ranch homes have not been maintained, they're probably worth a decent amount, too.

[JerseygirlCT]

78. Cheshire has that typical CT old money look

You have to look a bit beyond Route 10. It's not ostentatious -- very few McMansions, actually. But it's quite a wealthy town.

[NewJeffCT]

33. About a year ago, my wife & I looked into moving to Cheshire

We even got to the point where we had given a builder $1,000 to "hold" a house for us - but, the job offer I got fell through due to changes at the company.

It's a great place to live - good schools and very convenient to Hartford, New Haven & Waterbury.

[JerseygirlCT]

77. Sure leaves you feeling uneasy, doesn't it?

My husband has been terribly cranky if a door is left open for more than a few minutes lately. He's terrified!

This happened in the midst of suburbia. Wealthy suburbia, actually, but a very small town. The kind of place everyone knows everyone. It's the perfect way to have people feeling: if it could happen there...

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. I'm from Kansas and that happened when I was a kid

It was the first thing I thought of.

[H2O Man]

12. Exactly

what I thought of.

[qdemn7]

15. Crimes like these call for the Death Penalty

That's my view and I stand by it. I have no empathy, sympathy or compassion for these murderers. NONE.

[Bluebear]

16. Nope, much too easy for them.

Let them cogitate over it for a lifetime without possibility of parole.

[wicket]

17. Amen Bluebear

Death is too quick & kind for them. They are young, let them spend decades behind bars.

:hug:

[truebrit71]

44. Why so they can get paroled again? Or worse yet escape?

No thanks.

Fry 'em.

[wicket]

47. Good for you

Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia & China are some FINE company. ;)

[truebrit71]

54. Sorry sweetie, but this is where I have to part ways with my liberal self...

...and let the beast take over....

As a husband and a father I cannot begin to imagine the rage and anger i would feel if, God forbid, this were to happen to me.

I wouldn't give a toss whether they didn't get enough hugs as a kid, or if their Daddy didn't love them enough, I would want them dead, and I would be petitioning to do it myself...

Such brutality, such hatred, such pure unspeakable evil demands the ultimate sentence...death..and nothing else...

[wicket]

66. There are too many of these cases

There are too many of http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1453695&mesg_id=1453695">these cases for me to ever support the death penalty.

I would want them dead, and I would be petitioning to do it myself...

That's revenge, not justice.

[CTLawGuy]

75. don't become that which you hate...

NT

[wicket]

83. Exactly

n/t

[mitchum]

62. Or prey upon and murder other inmates?

I agree with you; those scum need to be removed from the planet

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

57. They are already career criminals

I don't think they care much. We're not talking about some preppie college boy who raped and murdered his girlfriend.

[wicket]

64. We should be better than the murderers

And the criminal justice system is completely messed up.

[malaise]

20. I agree 100% n/t

[WinkyDink]

21. Psychopaths don't "cogitate" over anything but how they got unlucky in a cruel world.

[Bluebear]

22. They can cogitate over how shitty the food is & how pretty the sun is on the other side of the bars

P.S. Don't call them psychopaths, you're not fair to psychopaths comparing these two monsters to them! :hi:

[H2O Man]

26. I'm against the death penalty,

even in cases like this. But I also understand other people thinking differently. But your posts and the responses bring up another interesting, related topic. There are some sociopaths who really do resent being incarcerated, exactly as you note. But there are others who really find life behind bars quite comfortable, and seem to consider those few short times they are released as a vacation from their job. They go out, engage in a crime spree, and then head back to the big house like other people return from a trip to Disneyland and head back to the factory/office.

From these guys' records, I think it's safe to say that they are not uncomfortable in a jail setting.

[ebayfool]

45. Institutionalized - my father was one of those. He said prison felt safe & was "home".

Took him doing 30+ cumulative years over the course of a lifetime before he decided that "home" didn't feel so safe anymore. He blamed prison changing because of the "type" of cons coming into the system were of a lower, meaner class ... "no honor" & "no craft"! I don't pretend to get it, but that's what an institutionalized ex-con thinks like. I spent a short period of time trying to get in his head, to understand the thought process that makes a man WANT to spend a life in prison. Finally walked away when I realized I didn't really care to know that much - this was someone so dysfunctional that it was just too disturbing to even spend time in his presence.

But you've nailed the thought process to a tee:

"But there are others who really find life behind bars quite comfortable, and seem to consider those few short times they are released as a vacation from their job. They go out, engage in a crime spree, and then head back to the big house like other people return from a trip to Disneyland and head back to the factory/office."


BTW, he's still a crook & con man ... he just plays careful & within the system, now. He actually got the Christian Coalition to back him for a school board seat. In more than one election.

[WinkyDink]

37. Ain't it the truth. Some people give psychopaths a bad name.

[lapislzi]

28. Maybe that is truer than you realize.

The world can be cruel, and probably was to these men, who had already spent time in the prison system. They are likely mentally ill. Psychopathy/sociopathy is notoriously difficult to treat, with one of the highest recidivism rates. The best "life" they can hope for from here on in is a heavily medicated one. Would society be better served by putting them to death? I don't know.

Disclaimer: I in no way mean to excuse their behavior if they are guilty of what they have been accused of. There is no excuse for torture and murder...ever. However, seeking justice does not preclude understanding of the circumstances. I would argue that it in fact requires it.

[WinkyDink]

72. I agree about many criminals and their early lives, including that of Charles Manson.

But true psychopaths can have privileged upbringings; e.g., G. W. Bush.

IS there any treatment for psychopaths/sociopaths?

[lapislzi]

73. I'm not a psychologist

From what I've read, these disorders are very difficult to treat. How do you persuade people convinced of their own invulnerability and omnipotence that they are damaged, flawed individuals? Most people "get" this at some point in their lives. I'm human. I screw up sometimes. I get over it, move on. We're talking about people who lack this fundamental tool of self-examination and correction.

I think they medicate them and do behavioral/cognitive therapy with limited effectiveness. Patients need to be kept on a very short leash. I think much depends on the severity of the psychosis/sociopathy. My ex-husband has sociopathic tendencies (extreme narcissism), but he manages to function in society and hasn't killed anybody yet. Any psychiatric professionals care to weigh in on this?

Don't forget, either, that bush was also damaged by his upbringing. Material affluence is no guarantee of mental health. It doesn't excuse him, either, but it helps me to form an appropriate layer of compassion.

[avrdream]

51. Life sentence, with benefits for other humans:

Require them to be the guinea pigs in medicine trials - surely there are enough of them out there to run some really good studies!

[YellowRubberDuckie]

71. Guys like this don't give a shit either way.

[lapislzi]

18. It is very difficult to muster any compassion.

If I were a believer, I would pray for them. But I'm not, so I just shake my head.

[mudesi]

31. And what if an innocent person is convicted and executed?

Lose your emotions for just a second and think rationally about it.

Not only that, but the death penalty is not a deterrent. It's a lose-lose situation no matter how you cut it. The death penalty is idiotic and barbaric and completely useless, and is yet another fake issue used by the GOP and the media to manipulate the population with emotional triggers like fear and revenge. Don't fall for it.

[LisaL]

81. I really don't think you should worry about it in this case.

The two alleged killers were caught escaping from the scene of the crime.

[sandnsea]

59. I have none for them either

I also don't find any purpose in killing them and adding more blood and violence to our culture.

[BlooInBloo]

69. I have no empathy, sympathy, or compassion for them either. Still don't want the State...

... having the power to kill its citizens.

[raccoon]

27. This crime also has some similarities with the "Wichita Massacre,"

as the press calls it.

Several people were sexually tortured and then murdered. Before they were murdered they were forced to go to ATM's and make withdrawals.

[NashVegas]

29. It Happens ... We Used to Sing Folk Songs About Such Killers

And then there were the animals who killed the Harvey family ...

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2006/01/harvey_family_m_3.html

[Blue_Roses]

30. When I heard this, I couldn't stop

thinking about the horror they must have endured at the hands of these animals. So, so sad:cry:

I understand that other inmates are not too compassionate to rapists and child molesters, so I hope these two suffer at the hands of someone named, "Tiny"...

Frankly, death would be an easy out for them, but they deserve it.:mad:

[bigwillq]

32. There was an article on that same subject

in one of the local papers today but I can't get the website to load properly. I will try soon and post the link when I can. Ok, it's working.

http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18633892&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=587442&rfi=6

[Corgigal]

38. The only real difference

is that in cold blood one of the offenders stop the other from raping the teen aged daughter. These two girls, and one being only 11, were tied to the bed for who knows how long. This homicide can scare anyone , anywhere. I wish they had a dog.

[militaryspouse]

46. ....

"I wish they had a dog"

..or a gun!! Anybody have links(pics) of what the mother and daughters looked like? Sad! I wonder if he tortured them by making them watch? It's hard to believe that not one of them could have gotten loose. Very gruesome!

[Catherine Vincent]

48. Does it matter what they looked like?

:shrug:

[against all enemies]

52. The family has asked that everyone remembers their lost loved ones.

Please read their obituaries to see how wonderful these beautiful human beings were.




http://www.legacy.com/HartfordCourant/DeathNotices.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonId=91512042

http://www.legacy.com/HartfordCourant/DeathNotices.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonId=91512044

http://www.legacy.com/HartfordCourant/DeathNotices.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonId=91512043

[Horse with no Name]

65. Amazing that Mrs. Petit was a Pediatric Oncology Nurse

The ones that can do that have always been my heroes.

[wicket]

49. "It's hard to believe that not one of them could have gotten loose."

Are you honestly blaming the VICTIMS here??

[lapislzi]

50. Your post is disturbing on many levels

Please explain yourself.

[against all enemies]

53. The family has asked that everyone remembers their lost loved ones.

Please read their obituaries to see how wonderful these beautiful human beings were.



http://www.legacy.com/HartfordCourant/DeathNotices.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonId=91512042

http://www.legacy.com/HartfordCourant/DeathNotices.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonId=91512043

http://www.legacy.com/HartfordCourant/DeathNotices.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonId=91512044




I'm sorry I have posted this twice but it should have been in response to the original post.

It is the least we can do, the father/husband wants people to know how special his loved ones were.

These links will help you learn.

[militaryspouse]

61. aae

thanks for those links. i was trying to figure out if it was the same home invasion i read about a few days ago, and it was/is.

[Beausoir]

56. I got the same feeling. n/t

[militaryspouse]

58. no

i wasn't blaming them at all. it probably came out wrong. I was more or less thinking out loud and trying to visualize if they were all in the same room, seperated etc. I guess i was thinking about what the odds would be for one of three to have gotten loose.

Just forget i asked if it's going to be taken the wrong way. these are VICTIMS, AND THEY ARE NOT at fault!

[Beausoir]

67. Did you mean your reply to me? I think you replied to the wrong post.

Please check who you are responding to.

[edbermac]

63. The In Cold Blood murders were notable for its mindlessness.

The man who planned this, Dick Hickock, was led to think from an ex-cellmate who worked for Herb Clutter, that there was a safe containing $10,000 in the Clutter house, which was totally untrue.

Hickock talked another ex-cellmate, Perry Smith into joining him for the robbery, as Smith told him he had once killed a man years ago in Vegas to impress him, which was a total lie.

They talked about wearing masks on the drive to the Clutter house to hide their identities but abandoned that idea.

When they found that there was no safe, Smith became so enraged at Hickock for his cowardice and stupidity he shot the whole family.

They wound up getting about $50, binoculars and a transistor radio.

[KAT119]

68. YES!!

[JerseygirlCT]

76. No. I really don't.

They got in through the basement -- and that's where the father was attacked and left for dead. The women (and girl) were raped and left to burn to death upstairs. It's only by chance that the father was able to escape.

I don't think there was anything happening here but their horrible misfortune to have been spotted at Stop and Shop driving a pricey car. It's a wealthy town -- must have looked like easy pickings.

The two murderers had no history of violence. There has been some talk that they were high at the time, and that may have affected their actions -- who knows?

But I don't think the poor man was in any way involved.

[LisaL]

79. Hah?

Nobody here is suggesting anything of the sort, by the way.

[JerseygirlCT]

80. My apologies - -got it mixed up with another book. nt