So, Noriega was taken down because he knew too much about Iran/Contra?

[Roland99]

I must admit to ignorance surrounding the whole "capturing" of Noriega. I know the cover story was he was funneling drugs but wasn't he in tight w/ol' Col. Ollie? Was Noriega going to let loose with his knowledge of the Iran/Contra affair?

[On the Road]

1. I Suspect He Simply Stopped Doing America's Bidding

and Bush felt the need to flex his muscles. He used a minor incident as justification to invade. Then, IIRC, restored "democracy" by offering a choice of two right-wing candidates. I doubt Iran-Contra was the issue.

[indepat]

2. What I remember most about Noriega's capture is the collateral damage inflicted

[jgraz]

4. Around 3000 civilian dead in the first attack, IIRC

Thanks to the Powell doctrine of overwheming force.

[TomInTib]

8. It was a hell of a lot more than that.

See #5 below.

I only wish that I could post all that I know about it (straight to prison - or worse - if I do).

[Roland99]

17. And the first use of the Stealth, eh?

[indepat]

19. Our country would take umbrage were some foreign country/terrorists to kill 3,000 citizens on our

soil, but some 25% of Americans seem to have no problem with/support the killing a million people on their own soil during our invasion and occupation of a country we were not at war with.

[L. Coyote]

3. Maybe we should ask him. ???

[TomInTib]

5. Iran/Contra and cocaine.

Funny, I was there.

God, it seems like another lifetime.

Next time you get to Panama City, check out the huge hotel/casino development on the way in from the airport.

That was where El Chorrillo once stood. A barrio filled with more than 100,000 innocent souls who all perished within a few hours of our firestorming (a la Dresden) the place.

[angstlessk]

9. Sounds like simple Urban Renewal to me...combined with the takeover of the nation

See NEW ORLEANS!!!

[malaise]

16. It was a frightening act

evil.

[jgraz]

21. Can you point us at any documentation of this?

I don't doubt your account, but I've been unable to find any estimates that top 5,000 deaths. Are there other studies that I'm missing?

[TomInTib]

26. Do a search.

""panama","invasion","1989", "el chorrillo""

You will more than likely find something.

I am headed out to a party in a few minutes, but I will send you something maybe tomorrow.

Tom

[Virginia Dare]

6. Taking a stroll down memory lane, are we?

and the answer to your question is yes.

[Roland99]

18. Well, he was in the news yesterday and I just looked at Ollie's Wiki entry for something unrelated.

Took all of 0.03 seconds for my brain to register the "Ah HA!" moment.

[Virginia Dare]

22. I missed it...

what was the story about?

I just remember all of that weirdness that was going on back then. It was all so surreal. The death squads. The secrecy and lying. And to think it's all happening again with Poppy Jr. It really makes me sick to my stomach.

[Roland99]

32. Something about being released from jail.

Ah...here it is:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-noriega27jul27,0,7937138.story?coll=la-home-world

[Virginia Dare]

34. Interesting, I guess his deprogramming is complete...n/t

[WilliamPitt]

7. "he was funneling drugs"

...into LA for the CIA to sell and increase revenue for black ops.

If the stories are true.

[TomInTib]

13. Hey, Pitt...

see #5.

That was the thing I wanted to "talk" to you about a few months ago when you wanted to interview me about something else (maybe my time spent in military solitary confinement).

[WilliamPitt]

15. Mmmmmm...

:)

Tease.

[TomInTib]

29. No tease here...

I will send you something tomorrow.

Friday is pulling me out the door to a party in Sonoma.

[malaise]

10. Panama was one of the transhipment points for the

Columbian cocaine and Noriega started taking his cut and set up his own gang of thugs.

[mrdmk]

11. There are many factors with Noriega

Besides yours (which I may add uses minimal tinfoil), the Republicans wanted control of the Panama Canal back. The Far Right was incensed that Jimmy Carter signed over control of the canal to Panama in accordance to the treaty sign by both governments in 1904 (the canal was completed in 1915 some 22,000 bodies later). So the story of Noriega being a drug dealer was conjured-up and a take-over of a country embarked.

[philb]

12. Re drugs the opposite was true. He refused to run drugs to suppot the Contras- so

they took him down. That's what I heard.
It may be a little more complicated but that seems the main thing. Like others said, he quit supporting the U.S. elites private programs such as supporting the Contras.

[HamdenRice]

14. Noriega threatened to expose drug running out of GHW Bush's office

You may recall that the Iran Contra affair involved not just President Reagan, CIA director Casey, the National Security Council and Oliver North's shadow government. The office of the Vice President was deeply involved through GHW Bush's national security advisor, Donald Gregg.

It was alleged that not only was Bush "in the loop" in terms of Iran Contra, but that his office was deeply involved in organizing or allowing the Iran Contra cargo flights to Central America to return with cocaine to provide financing for the operation.

Just before Bush decided Noriega was a threat to Panamanian "democracy," Noriega threatened to expose Bush's role in cocain trans-shipment. Noriega would have known because Panama was both a major transhipment point and off shore banking center for the cocaine trade, but Noriega was himself a major CIA asset in Central America.

[Disturbed]

23. He defied the US Govt. so he had to be taken out.

Why did he not divulge what he knew about the US Govt.'s secret ops in Central America? He got an offer he could not refuse. He was offered a Prison Term in exchange for his life and his family's lives. He will be released soon & will never reveal what he knows.

[Virginia Dare]

24. "Deeply involved"

that's an understatement. That's like saying I was "deeply involved" in the birth of my child.

[AntiFascist]

28. Notice the "Iran" in Iran-Contra...

had to gear up the Middle East in order to have something to fight over there.

[Catherine Vincent]

20. I was at a Houston Rockets basketball game when they announced

that Noriega was arrested. Everybody stood up and cheered. I didn't know who the heck Noriega was.

[SoCalDem]

25. Noriega knew too much about Poppy.. they probably thought he would die in custody

but he fooled them by living out his sentence.

he was "our guy" until he decided to go solo & make some money .

Saddam did the same..

Noriega is probably why Saddam had to die..Dead men tell no tales.

Saddam at the hague might have had some interesting stories to tell.

Noriega was safely tucked away in Florida, and for many of those years, either Bush1, a weakened-Clinton , and now junior was president..and of course jebbie was governor for many of those years.

I have a feeling that Noriega will have a fatal "heart attack" in the coming months..

[Virginia Dare]

27. Either that, or they completely fried his brain while he was in prison..

and he can barely remember his own name now.

[Octafish]

30. Noriega had to find shelter in the Vatican Embassy in Panama City.

The Army, I understand, had shoot-to-kill orders on Manuel Noriega. He managed to find sanctuary in the Vatican Embassy. The place was surrounded and the PsyOps people played crappy music until the priests couldn't take it any more and asked him to leave.

http://www.psywarrior.com/rockmusic.html

As far as Dope Inc. goes, Manny knows where the bodies are buried. He and Poppy planted a bunch, together. They even were photographed together, on a sofa. My copy of the photo was lost years ago and I haven't been able to find it online. This was made from elementa in that original picture, which showed them sitting on opposite ends of the sofa:



Noriega survived a stroke in prison. He may not be able to tell all that he knows.

[Virginia Dare]

33. survived a "stroke" in prison, may not be able to tell all he knows..

hmmm hmmm, I just bet he won't. Just another one of the odd conveniences and coincidences that surround the Bush family. I had a friend who had a shall we say close relative, who was shall we say a "government official" in the region when all of these dirty deeds were going down. From what I understand Poppy covered his tracks very well.

Glad to see you here Octafish! :yourock:

[Octafish]

35. Manny helped replace the democrat Torrijos, whose plane exploded.

A military board took over the government. Manny magically rose to the top and went on to help in fighting the dirty socialist Sandinistas, who also happened to be the democratically elected, legitimate government of Nicaragua.

Here's a great resource on Manny and how he once was a star graduate of the School of the Americas:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~lormand/poli/soa/panama.htm

One of the interesting ventures was the drug-running that involved the Contras and Mr. Ollie North.

Know your BFEE: Oliver North, Drug Dealer

Hi, Virginia Dare! Feel the same about you and yours!

Understand completely about the interesting way Bushes come up smelling like sulfur.

[Virginia Dare]

36. Hey, you know what's sad Octafish..

20 years from now, if we're both still around, we'll be talking about all the evil transgressions that Jr. and Co. perpetrated. Exploding planes, death squads and all.

I have a friend who was a neighbor of Ollie North's before he found his infamy and fortune. She said he seemed to be a pretty normal suburban guy. I often wonder what happened to him that he got pulled into all of this, was he brainwashed, blackmailed or what. And how many more are there out there like him. You just never know.

[madmom]

31. same thing happened to Sadam.