Philosophical Question for DUers:

[PCIntern]

As a preface/introduction, please allow me to note that commencing even before the days of the multiple political assassinations here in America, there have been hundreds if not thousands of fictional renderings of conspiratorial plots to undermine the government, the People, the military, the World Orders (both old and new), the Press/Media, and even of powerful individuals who 'need' to be brought low.

The books of Robert Ludlum; the TV shows Mission: Impossible, Man/Girl from UNCLE, The X-Files, The Prisoner, and many many others; films such as the Die Hard movies, Te Parallax View, Three Days of the Condor, Seven Days in May, the list is almost endless.

In addition, the conspiracies which have been demonstrated in some, but not in their entire, detail before the citizens, such as Watergate and Iran Contra are proof that intra-governmental entities plot and plan such activities, were dispensed with in a highly conspiratorial manner themselves.

All this being said, here is the question: For all of the billions of dollars eagerly spent by American consumers on these literary, cinematic, and television statements; for all the excitement which has been generated by so many of these efforts by very gifted writers, producers, directors, and actors; why, when faced with the likelihood of the existence of governmental conspiracy or military-industrial complex conspiracy, do so many ordinary citizens insist that such a venture is not even worth considering?

[Frosty1]

1. Denial/fear

:think:

[John Q. Citizen]

2. Fear of being marginalized.

[Junkdrawer]

3. Well...

When any political leader even begins to edge around the contradictions that suggest these conspiracies, they are IMMEDIATELY confronted with:

"So, do you believe the President and/or Vice President were involved in X."

Most immediately back away. The rest have their careers destroyed.

College professors, actors, and commentators are given a little more latitude, but not much more.

The result is a climate where these things are just not discussed in public.

[PCIntern]

5. Agreed...

but societally, these conspiracy theory movies are the biggest things out there...you would think that people would become somewhat analytical - even the morons (spelled correctly!)- and apply what they saw in the latest flick to best-seller to what was going on in DC and be appropriately skeptical.

But they're not.

[Junkdrawer]

9. Most people are followers...when they see their leaders pooh-pooh...

these things, they do the same.

Besides, you just don't walk up to the proverbial water cooler and say "You know, I just watched the video of the WTC7 collapse and, no way that happened with the damage from stray, random debris hits. No way."

There's a LOT of skepticism out there. It's just not public.

[PCIntern]

13. I take your point...

but I will say that skepticism is somewhat contagious. For example, I work in a dental office with more or less reasonable-thinking working-class people. Yesterday, when I told them all about the Pat Tillman business, and how it may be a murder case and the possible reasons for such a murder, they were aghast, interested, and telling their acquaintances on the phone during the day, a few patients of like-mindedness (we have to be very careful, but spread the Good Word around) and their spouses. All were horrified.

You can sell the Truth...you just have to be good at it - you can't denigrate the naivete of the listener. That's when they turn you off.

[CGowen]

41. for some it has the opposite effect

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K5M0xtxQVQ

[MissWaverly]

4. Because of the integrity of Dem leadership

FDR who brought in social security, Kennedy with his fervor and intelligence inspired Americans to put a man on the moon and before
the naysayers start up about the Bay of Pigs, let me say this. The country loved JFK, he made mistakes but the country was with him
all the way. Even Johnson put through Medicare and helped with civil rights even though he knew it would cost the Dems with
Southern votes. We had presidents who really did care about the country but the Republicans mastered the message and brought
deregulation to this country which was very profitable to them.

[PCIntern]

6. The Third Grade teacher

in my Quaker School (!) reflexively cheered when the news came that Kennedy was dead. The country was not behind him, believe me. There were many who were well-pleased that he was eliminated.

I believe that there has been much revisonism over the years in reference to the 'totality' of support of JFK and his policies.

[MissWaverly]

11. well, my brother joined the peace corps

and I remember how excited everyone was to see a man on the moon. Your teacher sounds like a boorish person. I have never
cheered at the death of a president even Nixon. But America had dreams back then, what dreams and hope do we have now.

[PCIntern]

14. I understand....

but what I'm saying is that a lot of people 'quietly' cheered the loss. The problem with stating how the country feels is that that opinon is deeply rooted in one's own beliefs and family experiences. You are a progressive to an extent and note that your brother joined the Peace Corps. For every one of him, there were 5 who gleefully (in the beginning) went off to kill 'gooks', e.g. the kid in Born on the Fourth of July.

[MissWaverly]

19. I came from a small town, nobody went off gleefully to Nam

I knew boys that went over there and boys that came back (yes, I call them boys even though I am 54 and so are many of them).
They were scared spitless, maybe you are looking at it through the Hollywood lens but it was not like that.

[PCIntern]

22. Well,

let me tell you where I was from, and I was there, people went off to fight Communism and if necessary to die for their country, right or wrong, Better Dead than Red (a common bumpersticker where I lived), Lower Bucks County, Pennsylvania, where you couldn't get a Democrat to run agaisnt a Republican in many districts in the old days. To paraphrase Robin Williams, "If you don't remember the gung-ho part, you weren't there."

Sorry to disappoint you.

[MissWaverly]

23. Buck County is not the way it was back home

First, let me tell you that the boys in my hometown had never been to the County seat. Our civics teacher had to instruct them how
to go there so they could go to the draft board. Although the county seat was only about 20 miles from my hometown, you might as
well be describing the surface of the moon to these kids. And they went off to Nam w/o ever having been outside my state before.
There might have been posturing (a guy thing) but these boys were scared. Going to Nam was not seen as a lark, and if you have
any doubts look at both of our leaders: 5 deferments Cheney and TANG Bush.

[PCIntern]

29. Miss Waverly:

You obviously had a different experience than I. I am in my mid-fifties, had a draft number and a physical, at which I was declared b/c of a transient medical condition, a 1-Y. Many of the people there were angry and scared, many were eager to serve their country. If you are going to insist that there were no eager young men who wished to do their "patriotic duty for Uncle Sam and stop the downfall of Godless Communism and thus end our Way of Life", then I really must say that I disagree with you in the strongest of terms. what happened to them after they were deployed is another story. I lost classmates, friends, and one distant family member in the War in Vietnam and it is one thing with which I am intimately acquanted. I marched in the streets, put up protests signs, and organized both in high school and college. I dealt with all types of folks over the years and will oto be infromed by anyone that there were none who wished to go b/c they bought the party line, hook, line, and sinker.

[MissWaverly]

30. I am saying that they did not jump at the chance to kill

they did what they had to do, but it was not like the first day of hunting season to them.

[TahitiNut]

39. All Viet Nam veterans are older than 53 today.

There're fewer than 1 million of us left alive, out of about 2.7 million.

[ThomWV]

7. Guns aren't blazing and naked women don't abound in the real version

Bore-ing!

In the real world there are no chases and fewer exposed breasts than you might imagine. There's just no fun in the real thing, no fast cars, not gigantic explosions, and once again, we're missing those 20-something-year-old titties. How can you have a good conspiracy in real life without lots and lots of 20-something-year-old titties?

[PCIntern]

8. Got pictures???

You're quite right...but if some of the ladies/gents from the DC Madam case come forward and give us some detaisl, it might make this stuff more interesting, a la Barry Bonds' mistress' tell-all in Playboy...on a newsstand near you!

Just kidding of courses, but if you think about it, there was not that much sexuality in many of the movies and TV which I mentioned.

[ixion]

12. actually, I would state the contrary... there are more guns and breasts, but fewer cameras

where the guns and breasts are being fired and exposed, respectively.

As evidence for this premise I would cite the various sex scandals (which include the exposing of both female and male genitalia, and, er, well...diapers), and the blood bath that is Iraq and Afghanistan, both of which serve up more sex and violence on a day-to-day basis than the more gruesome action flick.

The only difference is that We, the Viewers, don't get the Sopranos-style camera work for these events. Hence, for a populace that largely creates the reality around it from television, it doesn't really exist.

[Demit]

10. Deep-rooted delusion of the "It can't happen here" variety. See "Dead men DO bleed!"

[mmonk]

15. I have no idea.

I think it's because these people also were able to high jack religion. That and the constant banter about how the right is for freedom because of free enterprise and low taxation. Then you have conservative dems join in on the conspiracy and then it looks as if there is legitimacy to lies. Then the dems that fight this are labeled radical, extreme, and don't have the country's best interest in mind. But all this could be changed with journalism should it again become part of the MSM.

[ClintonTyree]

16. Temporary suspension of disbelief.

It is the basic intent of the people who write the movies, books, TV shows etc. that you cited, to temporarily suspend their viewers/readers disbelief. People are willing to do that, within those parameters, in their quest for entertainment. But they are loathe to do that in the framework of what they consider reality: that is, their everyday lives and the institutions that support their concept of reality. They cannot or will not carry over that suspension of disbelief into their real lives. After all, it's JUST a movie, JUST a book, JUST a TV show and those fantastic plots COULDN'T POSSIBLY happen in real life. Could they? :shrug: Our government would NEVER do anything that ran contrary to the will of the people. Our government is a noble and just beacon of freedom for the rest of the world to follow. WE'RE AMERICANS! The best educated, generous, healthiest, hard working and moral beings on the face of the planet, just ask us! :sarcasm: We're also the most self-deluded sheep on the planet but you'd never get most Americans to admit to that.

It's my opinion that the "average American" is a gullible sheep, unwilling to extrapolate what they see in "entertainment" into their usually pathetic "real" lives. We are, for all intents and purposes, a nation of followers, sheep, lemmings.

But that's just my personal take on the subject of your query. I could be (and quite often am) wrong. :)

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

35. Excellent post !

I also thought of suspension of disbelief when I read thw OP. You can accept the scenario because it is "only a story" when it is on TV or in a movie.

[Klukie]

17. Movies dumb us down.....

and desensitize us to real life. When we watch something on the big screen or read it in a fiction novel we realize that it is a work of fiction, therefore, when we see these scenarios play out in real life we have a hard time distinguishing fiction from reality. It is as if these fictional stories trump the realities at hand. The realities automatically become less plausible when they are presented as fiction. It is a blurring of fantasy and reality that has left a good deal of folks stuck in happily ever after mode.

[marions ghost]

24. yes that's kinda what I would say too...

When you repeatedly bludgeon people with their worst fears and fantasies it conditions them to learn to be oblivious to it, even when they see a similar story in reality.

And everything comes to us on a screen--all input seems fictional when you are consuming it all the same way.

The problem to me is that people learn to disassociate from everything they hear and see, retreating to their own small world. It's just too scary to imagine the things that might be real.

[PCIntern]

32. They're going to have to learn again...

real fast.

Things seem to be coming to a head and which way the American people go on this one will decide the future of this country.

[mmonk]

18. And a funny aspect.

Sometimes, the bigger the lie, the more people believe it because the alternatives are worse.

[PCIntern]

20. Remember in J.F.K. the movie...

when David Ferrie, played by Joe Pesci, is confronted by Costner, who says to him that he's going to arrest him simply because his statement as to his whereabouts was not believable. Ferrie says, "Really...which part?"

:rofl:

I felt that way at the Gonzo hearing this week...I half expected him to say: "Senator, just which part of my statement do you not believe?"

[mmonk]

21. Yep

:spray:

[MatrixEscape]

25. Catharsis ...

A largely overworked, distracted, highly entertained and radically complacent population requires sanctioned outlets in a collective sense.

We should keep in mind that the venues for any seemingly revealing or subversive information are a key issue. Then, he primary source of popular entertainment and news comes into focus. This implies a subtle double-bind where the viewing audience is aware, (especially by way of the credits) that, for the most part, huge, wealthy media conglomerates are distributing the fare.

It is unrealistic and naive to expect truly effectual radical, dissident information to come from a source that would put itself at stake by conveying any material.

When we consider the underlying fact of the ultimate source of any media as the initial component in the process, then it is easy to see that when the system relays any information that concerns itself, it is, in fact allowing a convenient parody or providing a calculated diversion.

For the most part, the tendency towards rapid-fire, almost ubiquitous entertainment interleaved with constant product promotion, leaves little inspiration or room for focus and constancy. That is built-into the practical application of mass media. As information becomes more available, especially the kind that is both revelatory and potentially transformational, the amount of information grows to the point that the entire process raises the volume to the level of white noise more than anything substantially useful on a common, collective level.

It is the appearance of being more informed, that detracts from the fact that too much information serves to create a cognitive dissonance that is overwhelming to both those who make no attempts to sort the glut out, and even to those who conscientiously do their best to discern fact from fiction and propaganda from public good.

In that case, too much information can become as bad as too little, especially when the providers of the information are totally aware of that problem and its impact. That provides a fertile ground for the insertion of pure propaganda and the kind of misinformation that acts as an effective cloak for both reasonable and informed reactions along with the process that creates the modern cloud of unknowing that counteracts informed consent among large masses of people.

From there, we can find so many results. This process easily feeds the tendency for denial and effectively neuters a substantial proportion of the manipulated population. We can also see then that denial is not the major factor, but a contributing result or effect. Denial is a natural and observable way that humans cope with difficult or contradictory situations, but it should not be a primary factor in the way they understand important issues in a larger sense. And yet, it certainly is, as we can see.

We we can understand, in the context of propaganda and influence, that the messenger, in this case, is also the message, directly or by implication, then we deduce why the message is already considered a safe outlet, a pre-meditated safety-valve on a grand scale. Sincerely radical and dissident information and ideas issue forth from independent sources that are easily marginalized or countered from the dominant source. And if that fails, their is a vast array of precise effective, rather scientific and psychological methods that can be used in this Brave New World to suppress, denigrate, or render them silent or ineffectual. I think we have seen this methodology practiced, honed, and perfected already in a multitude of ways.

I would suggest that no discerning, concerned, thinking person assume that today's media and propaganda is merely reactionary and as random as ordinary events. Social engineering should be obvious, at least when it is pointed out to you. It is a well-funded, historically-based, proven science that serves its purpose better than you new, must-have gadgets can.

As much as we, individually would like to imagine our comprehension and understanding of the machinations behind the superficial aspects of what we are allowed to observe, we would do ourselves a greater service by finding first, the humility to see and admit just how much ignorance and deception is woven into the confidence of our collective fallacies. Just as science now admits that the physical Universe is far more complex than we can hope to fully understand and record in this era, we individuals must apply that very same revelation to our assumptions about the workings of the very system we find ourselves in today. Our politics, media, entertainments, sciences, facts, and even fictions, are increasingly the result of a fastidious and growing body of knowledge that serves to control and direct our overall thoughts and behavior while simultaneously convincing us that that we are the sole initiators of those results and that the responsibility is ours alone.

That is the great disconnect and it is hidden, so skillfully, in plain site.

[cosmik debris]

50. While reading your post I thought of this quote for you.

"He writes the worst English that I have ever encountered. It reminds me of a string of wet sponges; it reminds me of tattered washing on the line; it reminds me of stale bean soup, of college yells, of dogs barking idiotically through endless nights. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it. It drags itself out of the dark abysm of pish, and crawls insanely up the topmost pinnacle of posh. It is rumble and bumble. It is flap and doodle. It is balder and dash."

H. L. Mencken

[chknltl]

26. "Because the TV is NOT real life, so get real!" (No flames here)

No not you PCIntern...I added that title to my post because in my "minds ear" I could hear some redneck giving this as a response to your question.

When life mirrors TV, I suspect it is quite difficult for folks to accept it. It has been my personal experience that life is sometimes stranger than TV. I also suspect reality is actually FAR, FAR stranger than TV, even further "out there" than we can imagine. Just look into history a few decades back, could you have predicted the world could get together via an internet as we do now, how about cell phones?... Our "reality" today would have been utterly an impossible reality a few centuries back and I suspect we would be equally challenged to understand the realities of a few centuries from now. This is getting off topic so let me get back to answering your question as I see it.

TV has been our escape from reality for about half a century at this point, I suspect our society may be lulled somewhat into a false complacency by TV which makes it even harder to see the potential evils around us...especially when they develop slowly over time like a hostile takeover of our Government from forces unknown for instance. To many, the very things you and I take for granted here in the Democratic Underground are just plain silly because it all sounds like a bad TV movie! The sad thing is, Bruce Willis is NOT going to rescue us. It is up to us to shatter the illusion, to break through the miasma of drunk astronauts/actors/actresses and etc which passes for "news" and bring the shocking truths to the slumbering masses.

I sense a wakening in our society though. You will have no doubt noticed the dramatic increase in "Impeachment" threads here in DU, folks are almost giddy with anticipation because I think we all sense that something is indeed about to give. bush's poll numbers keep sinking, cheney's are even lower. More and more of the "Slumbering Giant" is stirring and asking real questions as opposed to accepting the world according to Fox News. This has forced our Democratic Leadership to throw us a few bones prior to their going home and facing their angry constituents. It is possible that by the time they return to work, they will be caught up in a "surge" of their own, one much more to our liking.

I am not suggesting popping the champaign yet, (we MUST keep pushing), but perhaps it may be a good time to put the bottles on ice. I like your question PCIntern, I hope you did not take offense at my title, I stuck "(No Flames here)" to hopefully alert you that my intentions were not in flaming you for what I feel is a profound and very germain question.

[PCIntern]

27. no offense taken at all whatsowever...

great essay...keep up the good work...

:hi:

[ljm2002]

28. Americans think our system is immune...

...to such dark forces. Americans buy that ours is the most advanced society, and that there is some magical protective power in our Constitution that makes it impossible for government and military conspiracies to spring up, much less to succeed.

Never mind the Kennedy assassination, it was that lone nut Oswald. Never mind Watergate, it was a third-rate burglary (I have heard people use that very phrase, as recently as 5 years ago). Never mind the germs that our government sprayed over the San Francisco Bay (documented, people are reminded of it every now and then but they just yawn). And on and on it goes.

People don't want to hear it. As long as our government / big business / military conglomerate continues to successfully steal resources and make rules that keep the little people in Third World countries down, far down where they belong, then we can continue to maintain the illusion that we are special, and we can point to our relative material affluence as a nation to prove it. No problem, no problem at all. A curse on those damned conspiracy theorists who just want to rock the boat and threaten our sacred American Way Of Life.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

31. Why do the Mods on DU place posts that very well might be true but conspiratal

into the dungeon? Within the last couple of days there had been a thread about the desertion arrest of one of the creators of Loose Change, a thread about how 4 people who "rescued" Jessica Lynch died under mysterious circumstances, and a very important OP by Catfish on how the CIA gave instructions to Media Assets concerning the assassination of Kennedy. These were banished.

How many posts were locked or sent to the dungeon when questioning if Tillman was deliberately murdered. Now there is forensic proof of that.


:shrug:

[PCIntern]

33. this is a fair question:

since I'm Jewish, I'll answer it with another question:

Are you allowed to ask your question in the first place?

mods: Pelase note: I am not questioning the rules, I am simply asking the poster whether it is OK to ask the question. sort of a meta-post!!

:tinfoilhat:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

38. And being Jewish myself, that is probably why I use questions in responses.

Giggling here.

PCIntern, I did indeed consider whether to post my response to you and decided that there are certain things I do not like be silenced on, nor told that I should place a tinfoil hat on my head. They give me terrible hat head and tin is not a flattering hue for my complexion nor hair color. A copper pyramid is more well suited to me! They actually work in reverse of the tinfoil hats. Instead of blocking the alien rays they amplify them! I embrace my inner conspiracist (if that's a word?)!!!

;-)

[mdmc]

44. God bless you both

:hi:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

45. mdmc......

:hi: right back!!!!

[CGowen]

42. some aren't moved at all

I read a post concerning 9/11 in editorials and it was just deleted not moved to the dungeon

[JudyM]

34. And here we have this amazing, and true, plot line playing out for the public and we all just watch

placidly in our armchairs. Munching popcorn. It'll make a fascinating political/sociological chiller one day.

[PCIntern]

36. You know...

you'll see, 35 years from now...I may not be here, but I hope you are, that people will say, remember Bush the Younger? He got us thru his term with no further terrorism and people were really really careful about all kinds of things and put in motion things which we take for granted today. Blah blah blah. That's what's said now about Nixon; he created the EPA, he was really bright though terribly misguided, he approached the Chinese- no one else could have done that, he was a brilliant politician, he was actually amiable with his friends, he was a good pianist, he was well-read and passionate about the Presidency. And on and on...

I'm not so optimistic...

[mzmolly]

37. Couple of reasons - though more practical than philosophical.

1. Consumerism - keeps us nice-n distracted
2. Lack of information and willingness to believe that OUR Government would do XYZ
3. Our phones are tapped
4. "They" control the National Guard


;)

[mdmc]

40. too scary for real

Oswald killed JFK.

[superkia]

43. Because the media tells them otherwise!

[dorkulon]

46. An overwhelming sense of powerlessness.

I think most people would agree the power elites are up to no good, but would say "what can I do?" So that's my question: what can I do?

Unless you're talking about 9/11 conspiracy theories, which I flirted with temporarily, researched for myself, and found to be lacking in credibility.

[treestar]

47. Putting tinfoil hat on

There are so many of these movies that it's almost as if Hollywood is in fact in league with the big boys to get us all to think such things are a matter of movies, entertainment, fantasy - if you associate things with movies you can immediately point to their unreality.

:tinfoilhat:

[kiki]

56. Indeed - it's the Conspiracy Movie Conspiracy! :)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

48. Probably Because Most Of The Conspiracies Put Forth Are Insane Or Delusional.

The ones that have some modicum of legitimacy to them are considered or pondered by many. But many of the ones they're presented with are of such irrational premise or deluded reasoning that they'd be best left on the hollywood screen.

[bbgrunt]

49. Don't discount the fact that there is a strong incentive

for those involved in such conspiratorial actions to ridicule and dismiss those who would question them. When these people control the media and discourse in this country, they can effectively do just that. The efforts by government agencies to plant false stories and create strawmen to ridicule any attempt to promote the truth is a known tactic. There have been some very interesting articles posted here previously regarding the left-wing gatekeepers (sorry, don't have the link) and how they essentially are forced into toeing the official line and hence become co-opted.

[BlooInBloo]

51. Because what's typically more likely is people's being too stupid....

... to be appropriately awed by reality, instead requiring made-up shit in order to be captivated.

Like Nietzsche said: "Man would rather will nothingness that not will at all".

[librechik]

52. every example you listed is fictional

we have been led to believe such plots are the realm of fiction. We are not reminded about all the many real plots that history has recorded (and so many more that have NOT been)

Even an incident like the assassination of JFK--we are mocked for thinking it might have been a real plot, even though to any reasonable person it seems likely it was.

Here are some real ones that nobody doubts: Plot to overthrow Russian Czar: Yes. Plot in thirties to overthrow FDR: Yes. Plots to kill Fidel Castro, Yes. Plot to kill Allende:Yes. Plot to kill Hitler:Yes. Plot to keep US Hostages in Iran until Reagan inauguration : Yes. Plot to delay peace in VietNam yes.
Plot to use explosion on US Maine to fire up war against Spain: Yes.

There are too many real conspiracy plots to list. Yet supposedly you are a nutcase if you happen to see the evidence of a conspiracy plot getting right up in your grill. Dick Cheney named himself president so he could turn Iraq into a big giant profit geyser for Halliburton, Oil companies and others. Yes!

[PCIntern]

53. In the film "The Abyss":

one of the characters accuses a cynic: "You think EVERYTHING'S a plot."

To which the cynic replies: "Isn't it?"


I'm with him...

[welshTerrier2]

54. the "oh, come on" factor

the truth is, we cannot know anything. where do we turn for information: to TV? the press? some commission that did a study?

are our sources delivering truth or lies and how would we know the difference?

some very self-confident people on DU are so pragmatic, so mature, so common sensical. they assure us that our wild left-wing crackpot theories about what is truth and what is fiction stem from ignorance. they, of course, are clear seeing and know all.

what's interesting is that these very same people rarely talk about the dark, mostly hidden, history of the American government. we rarely hear these wise men speak of Operation Northwoods. we rarely hear them talk about the overthrow of Mossadeq. we rarely hear them talk about the many foreign leaders assassinated throughout Latin America and South America by our very own CIA. they rarely make reference to John Perkin's Confessions of an Economic Hitman. they rarely make reference to the very well documented presentation of our history in Chalmers Johnson's The Sorrows of Empire.

For some odd reason, it seems they are just a wee bit too intoxicated by the "oh, come on" factor. "Oh, come on. Do you really believe if something like that was engineered by the US government that the truth wouldn't come out?" "Oh, come on. Do you really believe people are so corrupt that they would intentionally kill three thousand of their fellow countrymen?"

My answer to these questions is to reverse the question. My answer is to ask: "How do you know they wouldn't?"

Is their certainty based on the belief that such conduct would be so evil as to render it infeasible?

The US government, especially the WH, is the greatest center of power ever accumulated by mankind. It may not be able to control the entire world but it surely has a massive amount of influence on global events. And sitting just behind the curtains of power is the looming, greedy hand of mega-multi-national corporations. What's at stake in the day to day policy dealing inside the government is the greatest wealth the world has ever known. Each decision, for example whether to invade Iraq or not, puts hundreds of billions of dollars on the line if not more. When we search for motives, that one stands taller than any other motive for any other crime in the history of mankind. What, then, are the limits of human conduct in the face of such wealth and power?

Most of us share a somewhat similar sense of right and wrong. We would be fools, however, to believe that any of us is beyond corruption should the opportunity present itself. And those who have lived with an almost obsessive drive for power and wealth are likely to be the first to stray from the path.

So, to answer the question, I fear it is mostly ignorance and a desire to believe in the goodness of others that leads to such head-in-the-sand reaction to conspiracy theories. I would suggest that a wiser course is to remain eternally vigilant and to understand that we should question everything, especially what we are told by those with money and power. This would include all the detailed press reports and all the government commissions (e.g. the 9/11 commission). No argument is made here to say that every conspiracy has merit. Perhaps very few actually do. But to dismiss them out of hand given what is at stake is totally foolhardy.

"Oh, come on" is not fact any more than any conspiracy theory is; it is merely a bias absent hard facts.

[cgrindley]

55. Because they're not happening

at least not like any of your examples. What is happening is rampant cronyism and a complete disregard of the constitution in order to profit from political decisions (ie drug bill, Iraq war). That does not raise to the level of supervillain and deathray.

[PCIntern]

57. "Oh come on"...of course it's happening...

thus the film: Syriana.

No one directly involved knows the real story...they're all being played by a 'Kronsteen' frpm From Russia With Love (Book, not film) - it's all so complex!

:hi: