It's RIGHT-WING Islam.

[kiki]

Ever thought about the quiet little conspiracy in the media to avoid pointing out this blatantly obvious fact? We tend to use phrases like "radical", "militant" and "extremist" to refer to these mysterious Islamic oogey-boogeymen who are supposedly threatening our civilization; these words - conveniently - don't express any particular political philosophy, but instead relate only the extent to which a group pursues or adheres to its political philosophy. (In fact, of course, words like "radical" and "militant" have left-wing connotations - they put one in mind of radical feminists or militant groups like the Black Panthers.)

On issues of sexuality and family, Muslim extremists are right-wing. On matters of seperation of church and state, they are right-wing. On matters of crime and punishment, they are right-wing. On matters of "decadent" Western culture, they are right-wing. In fact, pretty much the only issue that Muslim extremists and Western left-wingers might agree on is that of Western hegemony and imperialism. (And conversely, the "good" Muslims - the ones who our own conservatives expect to denounce the "extremists" 24 hours a day, seven days a week - adhere to a version of Islam that could accurately be described as "liberal". On edit - Here the term used is "moderate Islam", which again conveniently skips over the nature of the philosophy and refers only to its extent. We wouldn't want anyone thinking that the acceptable element in any group was - gasp! - liberal, would we?)

Well, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I say we call it a duck. If these guys were Christians, we'd call them "extreme right-wing Christians".

"Far right Islam."

"Ultra-conservative Islam."

"Extreme right-wing elements within Islam."

Can you imagine the look on Kristol or O'Reilly's face if everyone on their shows started referring to the "Islamofascists" in this way? Hell, we even allow them to equate the Muslim bad guys with Western liberals, when in fact those bad guys are more sympatico with the conservatives themselves.

No more letting our own conservatives gloss over the direct social, moral and philosophical connections they have with their supposed arch-enemies. It is extreme RIGHT-WING Islam. Say it freely and often.

[jgraz]

1. Great idea!

Shame on us for not thinking of it sooner. :dunce:

[bjobotts]

31. Old Liberal is the New Progressive

Hillary Clinton said that so much negativity had been assoceated with the word liberal that she prefers the term "Progressive Liberal" or just plain "Progressive". On all the issues of our country voters agree with the liberal agenda but resent the term "liberal". Progressive is the term preferred because it represents liberal + so much more. Progressives are liberals going forward.

You are right on target with the right wing label. Right wing conservative equates with fascism. Their thinking is like the thinking of terrorists...kill, torture, bomb, silence dissenters, fanatical world view. Very little difference between right wing conservative Christians and the Taliban.
The only people who want us to stay in Iraq are Bush republicans and al qaeda

[WillyT]

2. Brilliant !!! - K & R !!!

:kick::yourock::kick:

[applegrove]

3. Good catch!

:headbang:

[ingac70]

4. I've refered to them as right wing from the beginning...

It would be refreshing to se published pundits do the same.

We must try to make that reference standard!

[jgraz]

5. This should be a LTTE in every newspaper in the country

Need to borrow a stamp?

[kiki]

7. Well, maybe the first two paragraphs.

I've never come up with a "meme" (by the way, do you pronounce that meem or mem? I can never tell) before, but I don't think you're supposed to actually tell everyone when you're going to start using one. I think the rest of the post after the first two paras is just for "the choir". :)

[tblue37]

10. Pronounce it "meem."

The silent e causes the vowel to be long. Also, the word is a deliberate play on the sound of "theme."

[kiki]

11. Dictionary.com says you're right.

I thought it might be related to the French "meme", meaning "same" (after all, the word refers to a widespread and repeated cultural idea), which is prounced mem.

[tblue37]

12. Actually, Dawkins coined the word in association with "gene" and with the idea

of genes replicating themselves (another reason for the long e).

BTW, I am a little amused at being checked against Dictionary.com, since I am actually one of the sources many people check online and use as an authority to answer questions of usage in English:

Grammar and Usage for the Non-Expert
http://www.grammartips.homestead.com/index.html

Of course, Dictionary.com is better known and recognized, though my site has quite a following, too.

[kiki]

13. Heh.

I'm a sub-editor and proofreader. Maybe I'll use your site sometime. :)

[tblue37]

14. BTW, I also answer readers' questions.

If the questions are of general interest, I post an article about the issue. If not, I just send a private email response. About 1/3 of my site's articles were prompted by readers' questions, and if the readers want acknowledgment for having prompted the articles, I mention their names and post links to their websites.

[annabanana]

6. Fundamentalism: A Danger at Home, a Danger Abroad

(one of my fave bumperstickers)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. Yes, yes!

There is a battle within Islam right now over this very thing. We liberals are called heretics, and a persecuted by the right wing Islamists.

[eallen]

9. I've always liked the term "Islamic religious right"

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. My problem with that, just as with the term 'Islamofascist'

is that the primary emphasis is on the 'Islam' rather than the 'right' or 'fascist'.

I prefer to put the 'fascist' first - the fascist Islamists.

[AntiFascist]

15. Excellent point! K&R

The Muslim Brotherhood was a right-wing group originally fighting communism. Their current purpose, ultimately, will be to protect the Saudi Kingdom and its allies. There may be extremists who attack the Saudis, but they will always get caught. Even if the US were to go to war against Saudi Arabia, we would not directly attack our benefactors and business partners.

[Duppers]

16. Bravo!

I'd thought about this before but never articulated it as well as you have.

It is extreme RIGHT-WING Islam. Say it freely and often. Excellent advice!

:thumbsup:

[southern_belle]

17. k & r n/t

[Faryn Balyncd]

18. Those who control the language & FRAME the issues win the debate.

The GOP/Fox News/Frank Luntz propaganda machine's victories have come by dominating the language of public discourse & framing the issues.

[LeftishBrit]

19. I fully agree...

I have been referring to them as 'the Muslim Right' for quite a while.

The idea promoted by right-wingers (and occasionally by some left-wingers) that hard-line political Muslims are part of the left -is ridiculous. E.g. the extremist Muslim hate-preaching clerics, who have occasionally been a problem in Britain, have always seemed to me to have quite a bit in common with the likes of Falwell and Robertson.

On social issues, it's very difficult to distinguish the fundie conservatives of different religions. There was a very interesting letter to the Spectator by right-wing British Tory MP John Hayes, which acknowledged and approved the similarity of values, and was endorsed by a few more Tory MPs in a subsequent letter:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3724/is_200508/ai_n14903503

http://www.brianbinley.co.uk/northampton-newsitem.asp?id=20

[kiki]

21. Over at the Young Turks website...

...they have the WORST trolls on the message board. I don't think they moderate the board at all, as there's three or four posters there who are given free reign to spew the most preposterous, repeatedly debunked bullshit talking points on the market - sometimes even ones that have been ridiculed on the Turks' radio show the previous day. Anyway, I once put a post there issuing a challenge to these simpletons - namely, for them to cite one social issue (apart, obviously, from US hegemony) on which they didn't pretty much see eye-to-eye with the "terrorists". They couldn't name one.

[treestar]

30. Totally true, and I've made the point in debating the RWs here

That they are in fact envious of the very people they hate the most - wouldn't the fundies love it if they had the grip on government, the women in their place and the prominent place of religion in everyone's life (with only one denomination, at that - though there are Sunnis and Shias, there seems less breakdown, to my current knowledge, among Muslims than Christians).

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. Of course, the same people who say that also claim that the

Nazis were socialists.

Infer from that what you will.

[kiki]

34. Just read that letter.

Wow, he really hates him some decadent Western culture, doesn't he? What a fucking fascist prick.

Shorter version of John Hayes' letter: "I haven't had sex in thirty-eight years, and I'm not terribly happy about it."

[MrPrax]

20. Hook Line and Sinker

Firstly religion isn't inherently left wing and right wing anyway. It's political and a reflection of our OWN political bias as presented as religion.

None of the 'groups' whether it be the questionable AQ or Hamas or Hezbullah or the various insurgents battling foreign occupation are religious; we have cast them as religious groups, so as to AVOID legitimate political issues -- idiots like OReilly and the like promote this view because they TOO are then allowed to avoid political issues and use the cheap vehicle of religion....rather than discuss the excessive materialism of Christmas, OReilly might rather talk about it as a religious war -- so as to avoid the wrath of advertisers.

Their so-called Islam is a projection of our own racist need to plant a cover story that explains our LACK of religious values; it's the same trick with communism. Get people to think that was a 'religion' and then the public will emotional respond to the immediate threat rather than dwelling on where they might be convergence between oppressed here and there.

Our understanding of Islam tends to be based on racist fraud anyway -- we would really like to believe that the people who are legitimately complaining about our actions under the international law (including non-Muslims) or complaining about our imposed oil laws and governments (including non-Muslims), are really only motivated by wanting sex in heaven?

The left in our own western political discourse is consistently portrayed this way also; extremist, infantile, hidden motives, emotionalism pretending serious debate, etc etc..

It's the big lie and I do object with taking this miserable 'metaphor' any further by letting our own fascist dickheads off the hook -- it's just pays lip service to their own deluded sense of mission.

[kiki]

25. I have to admit...

...that I'm not quite sure if your post is criticising my OP or not, but:

Believe me, I'm in full agreement with you that none of these assholes has a genuinely religious bone in their body, and frankly I don't really have any time for this "war on terror" or "clash of civilizations" bullshit anyway. This is more about showing the Western conservatives for what they are than it is about further demonizing the forces of "Jihadism" - I mean, what's the point ("In breaking news, murderers are bad people!")? I'm just sick of seeing the wannabe-fascists of the media decrying as the ultimate evil in the world these groups that - by their own (most likely inaccurate and oversimplified) definition of those groups - are pretty much ideological bedfellows with the pundits themselves.

And I believe there may be some practical use to this meme. As a UK resident I'm fortunate to live in a country where the word "conservative" has been somewhere between a joke and an insult for the last ten years (even Tony Blair's recent disastrous behaviour doesn't seem to have drawn people back to the Tories, as David Cameron's imploding campaign seems to suggest). In an ideal world, this distaste for the right wing would be the case everywher. If people refer to the "Islamofascists" as "extreme right-wing Muslims" - which, within the admittedly flawed parameters of the public debate, is an accurate and true way to define them - then others may start to think about the similarities between the Middle Eastern far right and their own, and terms like "conservative" and "far right" may start to leave a nasty taste in the mouth. They hear "Osama bin Laden", and try as they might, they can't help but see Rush Limbaugh standing next to him in their mind's eye. Wouldn't that be beautiful?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

22. Tom Tomorrow toon right after 9-11:

[otherlander]

26. OMG.... I LOVE that cartoon!

Yay...
Can't stop smiling now... :D

[kiki]

27. That's genius...

...and of course it makes a serious point. I mean, if we're really going to fight this ridiculous "clash of civilizations", do we really want to entrust it to a group who basically agree with everything the enemy says about how to run a society?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

35. You just made my new sig line. Look below.

[kiki]

37. Goodness - fame at last.

And beneath the Noodly One to boot. Thanks!

Although looking at it now, I would actually edit to "a group that basically agrees with everything".

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

38. Ah, good call. Edited. -nt

[Beelzebud]

23. On social issues, conservatives have more in common with the Taliban than America.

[zehnkatzen]

24. Great Call! We've always known this...K&R, n/t

[JDPriestly]

28. Excellent. Thank you.

Right-wing Islam -- Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and yes, the Taliban, Iran and Syria, and all the rest. Suppress women, punish, punish, punish and lie, lie, lie. Just like Bush Co. Sure, they do charitable things -- when they want, on their terms, and provided that those to whom they do them behave and think the way right-wingers want them to. It's 100% about control. It's right-wing.

[treestar]

29. Brilliance!

:kick:

[karlrschneider]

36. Fundamentalists (worshippers of fundament, or shit) are all the same, no matter what name

they give to their imaginary deitiy(ies).

They suffer under the delusion that the 'old days' were wonderful, or that 'future days' will be, but they hate the here and now.