Not so sure that sexism and patriarchy are real, serious issues? Watch this.

[Katherine Brengle]

I want to warn you ahead of time, these images are disturbing. The photos were cut directly from an episode of America's Next Top Model.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnh4UGxq5Gs

Every day, all of us come face to face with images like these - in magazines, on television, in movies and music, in advertising - until we stop being consumers of violence, we will never stop being perpetrators of violence.

And until we end the oppression of half of our population, we will never have the kind of egalitarian society I know we all truly want.

[Fridays Child]

1. Jeezus, that's just sick. What is wrong with people?

:puke:

[Katherine Brengle]

5. I think the mindset that things like this are okay comes directly

from an acceptance, whether conscious or not, that women (and children for that matter, even though these photos are of women) are less than human, or at least less human than men, and therefore can be exploited with impunity.

[lizerdbits]

2. Here's a little commentary

A few of the same pics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i65kUWmASyY&NR=1

These are likely to be in the 'No Comment' section in Ms. It's really sick.

[ThomCat]

3. Our media plays to the stereotypes,

legitimizes those stereotypes, and promotes the idea that women are passive, sexual targets.

Turn off your TV for a few months, and then watch a few hours of tv. You'll be appalled at what you see once you're not letting it all pass by you unseen.

[Katherine Brengle]

6. Exactly. And these photos are a perfect example, because they not only use violence

as entertainment, but it is highly eroticized violence.

[supernova]

4. Ugh. Makes Heroin Chic look healthy

Disgraceful.

[ismnotwasm]

7. K&R

And I think we're too late, not to protest, but it's already out there. I saw an recent ad in Marie Claire magazine with a beautiful women in full evening dress in what appeared to be advanced rigor.

I called it the "CSI effect" after what crime investigators and forensic nurses are experiencing. Both victims and perpetrators of crimes are more aware of what DNA can do.

Law and Order SVU, the CSI shows, even the never ending story of "The Black Dahlia" all show a morbid fascination with sexualizing dead women. Our fashion industry is capitalizing on it. Sad and sick.

[aikoaiko]

8. If I may ask Katherine, even if another image like were never created again...

...how many women wouldn't be killed or abused?

[Katherine Brengle]

15. I believe that being constantly told that you are worthless and

your oppressors constantly being told that you are worthless and there for them to do with what they please creates an environment in which violence against women becomes acceptable.

So in that light, if we stop putting up with it, that environment, over time, will begin to change.

[aikoaiko]

25. Thanks for your answer Katherine, See my post 24.

I'm just not convinced that spending time and energy combating images of women in mass media is time well spent.

[gollygee]

19. Does there have to be a number in order for it to be wrong?

Just wondering.

[aikoaiko]

24. I think so.

This is what I think.
If the roles were reversed (good looking men depicted in bloody heaps), I wouldn't have any negative reaction to the images. Why? Its because men are not winding up in bloody heaps like by the hands of women. Therefore, I think the images themselves are not inherently wrong or harmful.

On the other hand if all these images were somehow made to disappear and no new images created, I don't think it would prevent a single women from feeling the full force of a man's fist. Sources of violence against women are way too deep and existed before mass media, advertising, and Tyra Banks.

IMHO, images like the ones in the link to the OP are the least of women's worries. I think people can spend a lot of time and energy on trying to ban such images or protesting to advertises to try and control commercial art because they easy targets, and it won't do much to stop the next beating/death.

[Katherine Brengle]

27. I still disagree.

The reason the images exist and are considered acceptable is because (male) violence against women is considered acceptable. The acceptance of the images is a direct effect of acceptance of the violence. And in turn, the images further desensitize the masses to the violence, which makes it even more acceptable, and so on and so forth.

[aikoaiko]

32. And yet, .....

Over the last two hundred years or so, there has been an enormous multiplication of mass media and sexist depictions of women. First there were books and magazines ---> radio ---> films --> TV --> internet, and yet women's rights and protections have been steadily increasing. In almost all ways, women's rights and well-being are better protected now than ever before (with a few blips here and there, granted).

How do you explain the massive gains by women (mostly at the hands of women), in environments with increasing sexist images? Shouldn't these be the worst of times instead of the best of times?

[Sparkly]

36. Has violence against women decreased?

What's the point? We have more "rights and protections," therefore what -- violence against women, and gratuitous images of it, should be acceptable?

[Katherine Brengle]

37. Personally, I think a lot of those "gains" are terribly superficial.

What we need to "gain" is the destruction of binary thinking that divides men and women into opposite camps with men being perceived as the superior half.

With all the "gains" that have been made over the past few hundred years, mostly in this past century of course, it's mostly "gains in name only" - the oppression continues, but you can show your legs and work in an office and have your own bank account. None of these gains has truly changed the power structure.

[aikoaiko]

42. You are right. oppression and attempts to oppress continue.

But I strongly disagree that the gains so far have been superficial, but if you think showing your legs at work and having a bank account are the best examples of change then I can see why you would think so.

I'm surprised that you are critiquing images from a tv show and call things like the right to vote, closing wage gaps, stronger anti-rape laws, anti-domestic violence laws, anti-harassment laws, and anti-discrimination laws, women working and leading in virtually every industry and organizational life, and the US being on the verge of electing a female president (among other gains) superficial.

[Katherine Brengle]

51. Too many of those are big sounding but haven't made a lot of difference --

clearly it is better to have the right to vote, say, than to be denied that right. The wage gap is still huge. Rape is accepted more often than not, and very few rapists see the inside of a prison cell. Domestic violence is still rampant, regardless of law changes. Sexual harassment is still such a serious problem that MOST women will experience it at some point in their lives. Discrimination might be illegal, but so are a lot of things that still go on every single day in this country. And if you think women are "leading" in business, well that's just for lack of information. Women are disproportionately employed in the lowest paying and least respected jobs. And while I would love a woman president, just being a woman doesn't necessarily make her the best candidate - or the best one for women.

This is why I say these gains are superficial - they are *something* but they have not broken down our binary thought process, and until that happens, men will always be the opposite of women and considered the better/greater/whatever of that pair.

[gollygee]

29. Thanks for telling me where I should be spending my time and energy

because, you know, I have trouble figuring that kind of thing out for myself! :hi:



OK for a slightly more real answer . . .

The images wouldn't be reversed. The fact that you even bring that up as an argument shows how completely you just don't get it.

The more women are shown as objects and the more violence against women is shown as being not even just normal but, in these pictures, even desirable, the more violence against women there will be. Advertising images sell us things. If advertising didn't work, companies wouldn't spend so much money on it.

[aikoaiko]

43. I wasn't really telling you where to spend your time -- just discussing it.

No offense intended.

[Sparkly]

30. I don't need any statistics to find this abhorrent

These are models in poses glorifying brutal murders. There is no place for this in "fashion."

Images are powerful. They convey ideas; they have meaning. For this to become normalized -- let alone the subject of model photo shoots -- is disturbing at best.

Ban? No. But met with a strong public reaction? Yes.

[TalkingDog]

9. Sickest ad I ever saw....

was in a magazine from the early 80's when good old polyester was all the rage.

The "text" was supposed to be about how the fabric was so easy to care for even a man could do it.

But the image showed a woman lying face up on an ironing board in a poly skirt and shirt, an idiotic smile on her face, while a maniacally grinning man stood over her, ironing her pelvis.

I was horrified.

Worse yet, the "shadow" of the man's pant crease under the board, looked for all the world like a stain of some sort.

ugh.

[Katherine Brengle]

16. That's really disturbing.

I didn't even see it and I'm troubled.

[Hydra]

10. Surprised? I'm not

at least in the U.S., it's more acceptable to see someone's brains splattered all over creation than say, an uncovered breast.

I love CSI for all the social engineering going on.

1. The Police are ALWAYS right and they ALWAYS HAVE THE RIGHT TO SCREW WITH YOU BASED ON SUSPICION

2. Guilty until proven innocent

3. The Crime lab's results are always perfect, so don't you dare question them

4. Undressed flesh is ok, even little girls, as long as it's dead

5. Don't commit a crime- we'll get you for sure

and my favorite:

6. If you've been falsely accused and convicted in the past, you still must completely co-operate with the police in any way they decide is required, or you get shipped to jail on the spot.

Don't you just love the people in charge? :sarcasm:

[Katherine Brengle]

17. That wasn't really my point, but still interesting.

I do believe that the constant stream of crime/violence as entertainment that we see every single day changes us, changes how we view other people and how we approach life - even if we don't think it does, it does.

Just as things I am exposed to walking down the street change me, things I see everywhere change me.

[Hydra]

40. I agree with you

which is why I pointed this out in addition to your statement of violence against women being "sexy." We're being socially engineered to think this is alright and "normal." Personally, I find it repugnant. I don't share the values of these people, whether it's making sex and nudity taboo, or making violence acceptable. I know that I'm one of the few that are not accepting the message, however. It's slickly packaged, and as it gains traction, it's backed up by peer pressure. Notice how many "Cops" type shows and "Catch the pervert" and "inside prisons" we're seeing?

This s*** is NOT entertainment. It's put in place to make us mentally comfortable with more violence, injustice, authoritarianism and even torture. :puke:

[mopinko]

11. i knew i hated this show for a reason

my kids watch a lot of crap. i hated this show the first time i saw it. my and the girls are gonna have a little chat about this.

[noamnety]

12. Thank you for posting this. (nt)

[chknltl]

13. Strongly Recommended

More should see this. Come to think of it, Michael Moore's next film should address this under-reported living nightmare...as a matter of fact, that sounds like the perfect title to such a movie: "Living Nightmare". I hope this gets seen by everone on DU. I rarely advocate letting kids see such horrers but in this case I'll make an exception. Perhaps the children, if made aware, can work to bring about a change as they grow up to replace us, a change that we "progressives" somehow missed. Thank you for posting this Katherine Brengle
:cry:
edited to change title of post, added word "Strongly"

[Katherine Brengle]

18. The reason I even found this video is because its creator

posted over at the I Blame the Patriarchy message board that the video, which she made as a way to work out how angry she was after originally seeing the photos, is going to be used by a couple of college programs (not sure where, but still a good thing) as a way of highlighting the prevalence of (male) violence against women.

[chknltl]

55. Interesting place...(I had to look)

As to the you-tube Vid...: I would like to see even more like this, (not necessarily the Top Model thing), with the horrible statistics interwoven as this one did. I feel that education is key if change is to be expected. (I expect that change EVENTUALLY, being a human means I want it NOW!)
I am quite aware that most men, self included, go through life oblivious to this form of racism. If pointed out we may "poo-poo" the message and perhaps even the messenger but eventually the preponderance of evidence can get through our cement heads... this requires getting the word out in such a way as to maximize the impact of the message. I think the you-tube video here is one such way...I advocate more of these. I am hardly a feminist, (physically impossible), but when I had a chance to start seeing a tiny bit of what is going on, I was impacted by what I saw. I feel change can come from within when more and more of us, (both men and women) are similarly impacted.

[gollygee]

14. WOW

WOW

WHO on EARTH could POSSIBLY think that was OK?

I am really really shocked.

K&R

[Katherine Brengle]

21. But think about it --

how many times do we see very similar images? These, all grouped together and coupled with the statistics, are very sharp and troubling - but I can flip through any magazine, my basic cable stations, the radio, and find more of the same.

In addition, there's the whole other issue of "woman as sex object" that goes along with this - and THAT is even more pervasive - why do men's magazines AND women's almost always feature a scantily clad, painfully thin woman on the cover? Why is every newstand and tv talk show telling me how to lose weight, paint my face, and pick just the right clothes to make myself look as sexxxxay as possible all the time? Why am I marketed undergarments with the coverage potential of dental floss?

This issue bleeds directly into the violence/sexual violence issue, because once you are only a sex object, you lose the rest of what makes you human, and this makes it very easy to rape/murder/beat/abuse you.

[gollygee]

22. I've seen a lot of sick ads

That gang-rape shoe ad that became a flame fest here is the one that jumps out at me. In some ways that was worse because they used this rape image to sell shoes, and then on top of that kind of posed the model/victim to look like she was enjoying being raped. Ugh. That so played into the "she really wanted it" lie.

The image of the woman slumped over with blood pooling next to her head will be etched in my head forever. And not in a way that makes me want to buy things.

The only magazine I get right now is Mothering and I'm quite sure I won't find those kinds of ads there, but next time I'm in a doctor's waiting room I'll flip through a magazine and see how "normal" this is.

[Katherine Brengle]

28. These images

are extremely blatant of course, but I think you will find that the underlying message is very very prevalent. If you can stomach searching it out that is.

[Solly Mack]

20. sick.sick.sick.

damn

[cally]

23. I thought I couldn't be shocked by American culture

but now I am. This is horrible.

[RedCappedBandit]

26. As if I didn't hate that show enough

This is extremely disturbing.
'culture of death'

[NMMNG]

31. Utterly appalling

Sick, sick, sick.

[Annces]

33. I really don't want to watch the video, but from reading the comments, I get what it is

Also, a while back Brittany Spears did some photos in a magazine where she was tied up as S&M. I had never seen her go that far before. It was dark stuff. I think her recent crack-up is related to her feeling invaded by the lengths she will go to please the advertising people.

And there is also that show Medium, with rape and murder happening every other show. Though I like watching Arquette's acting, I won't watch that show anymore, because I think there is too much sick thought in the whole thing. And I think you are right, this type of imagery feeds on itself, and gets into people's mind set.

[Katherine Brengle]

39. I used to watch all those shows --

and then one day, I flipped on Law & Order SVU and before it started they ran one of those "Ripped from the Headlines" ads and I just knew I couldn't support that kind of shit anymore. Someone's rape is not suitable entertainment.

A lot of people like to write stuff like this off as "just tv" but when it's based on a real person's exact experience, that's not just tv, it's using someone's rea life demoralization and pain to make money.

And that's fucked.

[dsc]

34. Simply unbelievable

I have never heard of the show before so don't even know which network to write to. I have no idea what they were thinking but clearly it wasn't sensible thoughts.

[Katherine Brengle]

38. I believe there is an email address or a few

at the end of the video.

[dsc]

47. In all honesty

I didn't make it to the end.

[Danger Mouse]

35. OMG OMG OMG

:puke:
stopped watching halfway. what the hell IS this? are they actually doing this? that's friggin DISGUSTING. :puke: :puke: :puke:

[MindPilot]

41. That is really disturbing on so many levels.

I almost never watch network TV and I'd gouge out my own eyes before I'd ever watch any "reality" show especially this one.

The first thing that strikes me is the fact that while it seems perfectly ok to show this stylized eroticized violence against women on broadcast TV, it is verboten to show even a coffin when it comes to the REAL violence in Iraq. That might disturb our beautiful minds.

I'd be curious to hear from the women themselves as to how they justify participating in such a blatant display of "dead hookerism".

And to think I've been bothered by a billboard I saw recently for St Paulie Girl where the tag line is "drop dead refreshing".

[donsu]

44. and notice the ads that have the brother/son lying, cheating

against the mother/and or sister - as if that was ok and normal

[theredpen]

45. I had difficulty believing that ANTM actually produced these...

I had to Google it. There is certainly an art to producing accurate crime scenes for crime dramas and so forth, but this has nothing to do with being "sexy." I'm at a loss for words right now, but when I think of some, I think I'll share them with the CW network.

[girl gone mad]

46. A friend of mine was murdered..

by a stalker when she was only 20. I can't imagine how her family would feel coming across these images in a magazine. Crime scene photos are not sexy or glamorous.

And on another note, why is this show called "America's Next Top Model"? Have any of the girls gone on to become top models? Cause I've never heard of any of them. Maybe they should call it "America's Next Middle Model"?

[Katherine Brengle]

52. I'm so sorry to hear that --

and so angry that it happened.

I don't follow the show, so I have no idea what happens with the winners.

[mitchum]

48. So many fashion photographers have been ripping off Helmut Newton...

for the past 30 years, it's not surprising that someone took his basic theme to its logical conclusion.

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

49. these images are disturbing

and yes, every day we are bombarded with these vile pictures in magazines, on television, in movies, in music and to be perfectly honest in pornography. We've come a long way baby.

[Katherine Brengle]

53. Right?

I hate that - because on the surface maybe it looks that way, but the *attitudes* of people haven't really changed that much, and that is what matters.

[rucky]

50. but, but, Tyra Banks is a champion of women's causes!

or so she says.

[tbyg52]

54. Unbelievable

What kind of idiot would think these images were a good thing for a modeling show? Sick, just sick. I'm assuming the TV network showed them? (I don't watch this show, as I don't give a hoot about who looks prettier in their clothes.....)

[Katherine Brengle]

56. Preachin' to the choir here --

I have no idea how anyone could think this was a good idea.