On Tillman: "He never once degraded me. He's the only person I ever worked for who didn't degrade ..

[understandinglife]

... anyone.

<clip>

Tillman Comrade Recalls Final Moments
Soldier at Tillman's Side in Afghanistan Recalls Former NFL Player's Final Moments

<clip>

A chaplain who debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman's death later described this exchange to investigators conducting a criminal probe of the incident. But O'Neal strongly disputes portions of the chaplain's testimony, outlined in some 2,300 pages of transcripts released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.

The chaplain told investigators that O'Neal said Tillman was harsh in his last moments, snapping, 'Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."

"He never would have called me 'sniveling,'" O'Neal said. "I don't remember ever speaking to this chaplain, and I find this characterization of Pat really upsetting. He never once degraded me. He's the only person I ever worked for who didn't degrade anyone. He wasn't that sort of person."

Link: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3425156

The TRUTH WILL PREVAIL.

We all honor you Pat Tillman.

Peace.

[bleever]

1. Is Pat Tillman's essential goodness and decency stronger than this regime of plunderers?

God damn it, I think it is.

I know it is.

[understandinglife]

5. I agree, my friend. Yes, his "essential goodness" will prevail ...

... as will your essential goodness and that of so many of our fellow DUers and fellow inhabitants of the earth.

:hi:


Peace.

[bleever]

10. He's an inspiration,

and my hope is that someday his family will hold, as his legacy, the downfall of this reign of liars and thieves as part of their memories of Pat.



:hi:

[glitch]

19. That would be poetic on an epic scale.

How ironic if children sang songs of glory about him after all the money and time put into building up Junior as The Hero.

[Venus Dog]

32. Amen my brother, sister

:patriot:

[seriousstan]

2. I didn't see that. Thank you for the post

[flyarm]

3. my heart just aches for Pat's family..and will truth prevail..god i hope so

but none of us have seen truth since these sob's have taken the white house ..

i wonder if people even recognize the truth anymore..i really wonder..

Pat's family sure knows it has not gotten the truth..

9/11 families damn well know they have not gotten the truth..

we have a congress disintigrating..

a Justice dept disintigrating..

the military disintigrating..

the American people are sleep walking ..and on vacation and seems they hardly notice much anymore..

because lies are so prevelent..seems our nation is immune to the lies now..

yeah a bunch of us know it..but ..i just don't see people who care too damn much...just don't disturb them on the beach or take their beach time away!!

maybe i am getting too cynical..but where i am no one seems to care!

fly

[understandinglife]

8. Peace, my friend. These are very hard times for those of us who care.

As long as even one of us refuses to cooperate or condone the evil, the evil will fail.

:hi: Take care ...
Bob

[flyarm]

9. the wasted lives and lies just get to me..how many times can ones heart break??

my hubby knew Pat..

i am just so tired of the deaths..the senseless loss of young lives...

i am just so tired of the damn lies..

fly:cry: :cry:

[bleever]

11. .

:hug:

[thereismore]

4. OK, so O'Neal has a story to tell that we haven't heard yet, if the chaplain is

lying. In any case, chaplain's story is hearsay anyway. We need to hear from O'Neal. My guess is, he will talk when asked by Congresspeople.

[flyarm]

6. gosh i hope so!! i pray so..so Pat's family will get to put Pat to rest the right way...

with truth ...

is that so much to ask??

that this Family gets truth?

That the son they loved with their hearts and souls..that they get the truth ..

my tears flow for them...and for Pat.

fly

[EFerrari]

16. I believe he testified before Congress in the last hearing

on this issue. And the Pentagon did everything they could to stop him.

[flyarm]

25. see my posts #38 & 39...

[EFerrari]

26. Thanks, fly. n/t

[Name removed]

7. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pirate Smile]

12. Who is the Chaplain whose name is blocked out? I think there are

a few questions for him.

[IChing]

13. A Chaplain vs an Atheist?

Why would there be a conflict? :sarcasm:

I wonder what domination the chaplain was?

[autorank]

14. I recommended this then went off to ABC. Commentted and read the others.

They're positive comments, questioning, etc.

I left this:

Pat Tillman did an admirable thing. He valued his ability and duty to serve over the dream life of a professional athlete. What was his reward? To die in a way that couldn't be reported properly and to have his parents suffer through months of agonizing pain. Who will make the same sacrifice in the future? Tillman reportedly developed political views that were hghly critical of the Iraq invasion. He was going to meet with some critics of the war when he returned (Sept 25, 2006, San Francisco Chronicle). With the history of lies justifying Iraq and lies about nearly everything else the Bush administration does, how can we believe anything that comes out of a quiescent congress run by people who lack the basic vision to immediately begin impeachment proceedings against the criminal Bush and his cult of self enrichment.

Posted by:
MichaelCollinsDC 1:30 AM
Mark As Violation

[EFerrari]

15. UL, do you know if this is the same soldier who had his

first hand account of the incident "edited" without his consent or knowledge? I seem to remember this name from the hearing. And I also remember that the Pentagram fought tooth and nail to prevent him from testifying.

[Pirate Smile]

21. Good question.

[flyarm]

28. see my posts #38,39,&42..eom

[flyarm]

17. see: FAMILY DEMANDS THE TRUTH Sunday, September 25, 2005

this is from my files..its in my journal as well.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/09/25/MNGD7ETMNM1.DTL



FAMILY DEMANDS THE TRUTH
New inquiry may expose events that led to Pat Tillman’s death
Robert Collier, Chronicle Staff Writer

Sunday, September 25, 2005

snip:

The battle between a grieving family and the U.S. military justice system is on display in thousands of pages of documents strewn across Mary Tillman’s dining room table in suburban San Jose.

As she pores through testimony from three previous Army investigations into the killing of her son, former football star Pat Tillman, by his fellow Army Rangers last year in Afghanistan, she hopes that a new inquiry launched in August by the Pentagon’s inspector general finally will answer the family’s questions:

Were witnesses allowed to change their testimony on key details, as alleged by one investigator? Why did internal documents on the case, such as the initial casualty report, include false information? When did top Pentagon officials know that Tillman’s death was caused by friendly fire, and why did they delay for five weeks before informing his family?

“There have been so many discrepancies so far that it’s hard to know what to believe,” Mary Tillman said. “There are too many murky details.” The files the family received from the Army in March are heavily censored, with nearly every page containing blacked-out sections; most names have been deleted. (Names for this story were provided by sources close to the investigation.) At least one volume was withheld altogether from the family, and even an Army press release given to the media has deletions. On her copies, Mary Tillman has added competing marks and scrawls — countless color-coded tabs and angry notes such as “Contradiction!” “Wrong!” and “????”

A Chronicle review of more than 2,000 pages of testimony, as well as interviews with Pat Tillman’s family members and soldiers who served with him, found contradictions, inaccuracies and what appears to be the military’s attempt at self-protection.

For example, the documents contain testimony of the first investigating officer alleging that Army officials allowed witnesses to change key details in their sworn statements so his finding that certain soldiers committed “gross negligence” could be softened.

[flyarm]

20. and more..same article..

FAMILY DEMANDS THE TRUTH
New inquiry may expose events that led to Pat Tillman’s death
Robert Collier, Chronicle Staff Writer

Sunday, September 25, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
‘IT’S HARD TO KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE’
That’s the lament of Mary Tillman, above, a teacher of special education in a San Jose public school. She has long pressed the Army to reopen its investigation into the friendly-fire killing of her son, Pat Tillman, in a canyon in Afghanistan on April 22, . The persistence of Mary Tillman and her former husband, Patrick Tillman, was rewarded when the Pentagon’s inspector general opened a new inquiry in August, the fourth such probe. Mary Tillman says she hopes questions created by discrepancies in past testimony will finally be answered.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



STORY CHANGES OVER TIME
An officer in Pat Tillman's Ranger battalion who directed the first investigation into the soldier's death served as a witness on Nov. 14, 2004, in the third investigation, which was led by Brig. Gen. Gary Jones. The first investigator complained that the officers in charge of the second invest-

igation had allowed Rangers involved in the shooting to change their testimony.





THREAT OF PERJURY CHARGES
An excerpt from a March 3, 2005, memorandum by

Brig. Gen. Gary Jones describes how Capt. William Saunders, the commander of Pat Tillman's Ranger company, was threatened with perjury charges. Jones' memo said Saunders made false claims that he had informed his superiors that platoon commander Lt. David Uthlaut had protested orders given to him leading up to the incident. Despite this threat, Saunders was allowed to change his testimony and was granted immunity.

E-mail Robert Collier at [e-mail] .

[glitch]

18. God the lies they tell are despicable. They don't just lie, they lie as low as they can.

Not surprising, they have no honor whatsoever.

This chaplain bears looking at. I wonder if he's a graduate from Regent too?

[jaysunb]

22. War is Hell....

it changes you from moment to moment.

a personal observation.....

[theredpen]

33. I don't find it hard to believe...

...that Tillman was yelling at someone to overcome their fear. I don't think it would make him a bad person if he did this in the heat of battle.

There is a conflicting account, so someone has their facts wrong, but I'm not going to decide that it's O'Neal just because I don't want to sully the Tillman hagiographies. I want to see more info.

[jumptheshadow]

34. It wouldn't bother me if he did

All accounts agree that there were a number of brand new soldiers who were in the groups involved in the fratricide. When I heard the first comment Tillman was alleged to have made, I thought that he was trying to snap a shell-shocked first-timer back to reality in a desperate situation where that soldier might be able to help. If you believe any of the story at all, Tillman was trying to think of ways to alert the men who were shooting on them. A smoke bomb made them pause but, ultimately, they maneuvered to get a better shot on the pair. That's when Tillman, according to the report, got on his feet to stop them. He probably saved the other guy's life by doing so...

[flyarm]

23. here is some of o'neils testimony to congress..in April..

this no longer is linkable but this was on aol news April 24,2007..i had in my files ..fly


Top News- Ranger Alleges Cover-Up in Tillman Death - AOL News

snip:



Updated:2007-04-24 16:39:37
Ranger Alleges Cover-Up in Tillman Death
Tillman's Family Rips Military for 'Falsehoods'

By SCOTT LINDLAW and ERICA WERNER
AP

WASHINGTON (April 24) - An Army Ranger who was with Pat Tillman when he died by friendly fire said Tuesday he was told by a higher-up to conceal that information from Tillman's family.



"I was ordered not to tell them," U.S. Army Specialist Bryan O'Neal told the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

He said he was given the order by then-Lt. Col. Jeff Bailey, the battalion commander who oversaw Tillman's platoon.

Pat Tillman's brother Kevin was in a convoy behind his brother when the incident happened, but didn't see it. O'Neal said Bailey told him specifically not to tell Kevin Tillman that the death was friendly fire rather than heroic engagement with the enemy.

"He basically just said, 'Do not let Kevin know, he's probably in a bad place knowing that his brother's dead,'" O'Neal said. He added that Bailey made clear he would "get in trouble" if he told.

Kevin Tillman was not in the hearing room when O'Neal spoke.

[flyarm]

24. and more..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070424/tillman-friendly-fire/

Ranger Alleges Cover-Up in Tillman Case
ERICA WERNER | April 24, 2007 11:11 PM EST |


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WASHINGTON — An Army Ranger who was with Pat Tillman when the former football star was cut down by friendly fire in Afghanistan said Tuesday a commanding officer had ordered him to keep quiet about what happened.

The military at first portrayed Tillman's death as the result of heroic combat with the enemy. Army Spc. Bryan O'Neal told a congressional hearing that when he got the chance to talk to Tillman's brother, who had been in a nearby convoy on the fateful day, "I was ordered not to tell him what happened."

"You were ordered not to tell him?" repeated Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

"Roger that, sir," replied O'Neal, dressed in his Army uniform.

[flyarm]

27. Waxman:They were calculatedly put out for a public relations purpose. ...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070424/tillm... /

Ranger Alleges Cover-Up in Tillman Case
ERICA WERNER | April 24, 2007 11:11 PM EST


"We don't know what the secretary of defense knew, we don't know what the White House knew," Waxman said. "What we do know is these were not a series of accidents, these stories. They were calculatedly put out for a public relations purpose. ... Even now there seems to be a cover-up."

Kevin Tillman was in a convoy behind his older brother, a former NFL star, on April 22, 2004, when Pat Tillman was mistakenly shot by other Army Rangers who had just emerged from a canyon where they'd been fired upon. Kevin Tillman didn't see what happened. O'Neal said he was ordered not to tell him by then-Lt. Col. Jeff Bailey, the battalion commander who oversaw Tillman's platoon.

"He basically just said, sir, that uh, 'Do not let Kevin know, he's probably in a bad place knowing that his brother's dead,'" O'Neal testified. "He made it known that I would get in trouble, sir, if I spoke with Kevin."

O'Neal said he was "quite appalled" by the order.

Bailey's superior officer, then-Col. James C. Nixon, has testified to the Defense Department's inspector general that he ordered that information on the facts of Tillman's death be shared with as few people as possible so that the Tillman family would not learn those facts through news media leaks. That, in turn, shaped Bailey's guidance to his troops.

The Army said initially that Tillman was killed by enemy gunfire while trying to help another group of ambushed soldiers. The family was not told what really happened until May 29, 2004, a delay the Army blamed on procedural mistakes.

Kevin Tillman and Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, also testified Tuesday but were not in the room when O'Neal spoke.

After the hearing, Mary Tillman approached O'Neal, introduced herself, embraced him and sobbed.

Kevin Tillman, in his testimony, accused the military of "intentional falsehoods" and "deliberate and careful misrepresentations" in the portrayal of his brother's death.

[understandinglife]

31. Thank you for including so many important references in this thread ...

:thumbsup:


Peace.

[FloridaJudy]

29. Who is this chaplain?

Don't they take an oath not to pass on something told them in confidence? Even if true, Tillman's last words should not have been used to trash his character. This does not sound like someone I would want near me in my last moments.

I suspect the chaplain had an ax to grind with non-believers. I recommend he go back and read what Jesus had to say about forgiveness and turning the other cheek.

[EFerrari]

30. This is BushCo cr@p. n/t