If you were going to emigrate from the USA, where would you go?

[Robson]

If you were going to emigrate from the USA, where would you go, assuming you could even get a resident visa?

Unlike the USA, most countries strictly control their immigration, and demand that immigrants meet requirements of health, age, language, financial security, skills to obtain a resident visa. Here in the USA it is obvious that the powers that be just let the gates open so any unskilled, penniless, illiterate, healthy or unhealthy, can come in so the rich get richer and political parties get votes. Obviously the result will be that what's left of our social security and health care will soon be sucked up by those that have paid little into it. To compound it they don't have the skills to get a job that does pay good wages.

Sure the grass is always greener on the other side, but I see the grass in the USA as continuing to wilt. We have a level of corruption and cronyism here where the rich and other small groups control this country totally to their benefit.

We're toying with the idea of taking all the marbles and abandoning ship so to speak. Has anyone else ever thought or fantasized about it... even though it would be difficult to leave family and friends?

edited: grammar. If I want to be accepted I must improve that.

[genie_weenie]

1. The Conch Republic! n/t

[porphyrian]

144. Good people, but it's way too fucking hot in the Summer. - n/t

[24HRrnr]

2. Australia

[beastieboy]

157. I think it's a bit conservative over there.

[beastieboy]

159. St. Somewhere

I'll take anyplace in the caribbean.

[cynatnite]

3. France...

Mainly because I love the country, but I seriously don't think we're going anywhere.

[cynatnite]

4. n/t

[rucky]

5. New Zealand, Ireland or Chile. n/t

[devilgrrl]

10. Mine would be New Zealand, Canada or Sweden

But staying put!

[mzmolly]

17. Ditto. And I'd add Norway to the list of possibilities were it not for the peroid of darkness.

:hi:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2149799.stm

[rucky]

76. what about all those VIKINGS?

raping and pillaging and whatnot

[mzmolly]

78. Whatev'

My husband is a great big Nordsky, hopefully day'd leaf us alone. ;))

[rucky]

81. the dialect made me think of Minnesota...

which made me think of the football team... which made me think of Vikings on a boat raping and pillaging.

Hey, you don't even have to move to get that!

[mzmolly]

82. This is true!

Unfortunately. That incident is still difficult to believe. Celebs are becoming far too entitled ey?

[GreenPartyVoter]

48. Ireland or Canada

[Yael]

6. Israel

[Babsbrain]

7. Mexico

I hear those nobody left there

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. England or New Zealand

as both have Sufi communities. But age, health, and financial situations preclude this option.

[Tom Joad]

9. Vermont.

[ccpup]

11. France

I just took the plunge and plunked down a chunk of change on an apartment in Paris, so -- even though I'll continue to keep my apartment here in NYC --, as time goes by, I strongly suspect I'll be spending more and more time in Paris.

[burythehatchet]

62. moi aussi

[Adsos Letter]

12. Iceland...n/t

[That Is Quite Enough]

13. If I could get into *any* country...I'd go to France.

But realistically, I'd most likely end up borderhopping to Mexico or Canada.

[tanyev]

14. Canada.

I didn't realize at the time how fortunate I was that the man I fell in love with and married is a Canadian citizen. We are waiting to see what happens in 2008.

[Robson]

61. Canada is respected

The USA is now viewed as a pariah thanks to the neocons. This didn't happen overnight btw.

[knitter4democracy]

73. Us, too.

Hey, she doesn't knit, does she? I know a Canadian knitter who fell in love with an American who's waiting to see what happens.

[UncleSepp]

15. Ireland, Germany, Sweden, or Namibia

It would depend on how fast I had to get there, how much money I had to take with me, what the situation was like and who else was coming along. Namibia would be the last choice, because I really don't like being hot.

[PATRICK]

16. I'm waiting for

more pamphlets dropped from UFO's. So far they all prod and probe and look ugly and boring. We need to move the government not our bodies, but the government is big like an 800 pound gorilla that a thousand people choose not to try to lift.

[ikojo]

18. I think I can emigrate to Ireland since my

grandpa on my dad's side came from there. I could also go to Israel.

[defendandprotect]

111. Sorry, but I think the rules have changed to a living parent . . . in Ireland

[Blue_In_AK]

19. Western Canada

Most like Alaska.

[ladywnch]

21. we just finished our honeymoon in Western Canada and it has our votes!

we have been thinking about it every since jr got elected the second time. we even went as far as to visit the Canadian immigration site......we qualify (thank god!) if things don't change soon (or god forbid get worse) we are going to go.

[defendandprotect]

110. Western Canada -- ???

Is the weather similar to where you live now?

What attracts you to the area?

[ladywnch]

119. we live in CO now, so it is pretty similar

the people seem much more open minded, free, friendly. They don't seem to live in a prepetual state of fear, anger...waiting for someone to do something mean or bad to them.....waiting for something bad to happen in general. The look people in the eye when the talk without fear of "you eyeballin me?!"......no in-you-face religion crap. they actually spend time LIVING.....they actually interact with each other because they LIKE it not because they have to. I could go on.....but that's the just of it.

[LiberalEsto]

20. Estonia

because my parents were Estonian citizens and I qualify for citizenship there.

[T Wolf]

22. Belgium. Fell in love with this beautiful country and its people

eight years ago and have only come to appreciate it more since.

[Bluebear]

24. very cool nation. nt

[MaraJade]

102. My husband's family are from Belgium. . .

I've never been, but it is my understanding that we do have relatives there.

[Totally Committed]

23. If $$$$ were no concern? -- In this order:

Tuscany

Provence

Ireland

Since $$$$ is a concern, I am considering:

Ireland

Mexico



TC

[CTyankee]

137. Where in Tuscany? Little town or big city?

Florence is just wonderful, dazzling, a great place to wander and eat. I was also taken by little Lucca; no autos allowed in the walled town and the wall serves as a passagiata. And the lucchese cuisine!

[Selatius]

188. Tuscany and Provence? You know how to pick nice places, but Provence is not really expensive

It's mostly rural country, away from the expensive big city living. The only expensive part is getting to France and getting through the paperwork.

[blues90]

25. I've thought about it alot lately ,

However since I don't have the money there is not way other than walking across the canadian border and backpacking to stay out of sight . I would only have to drive north from L.A. .

Now that I think about it I should have gone years ago before things got so difficult and bad .

[judaspriestess]

26. England but I know its hella expensive

my next choice would be France, then Spain or Portugal.

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

27. Spain

I left the United States years ago and live in the EU but I still seek perfection.

[Robson]

63. So what do you like/dislike?

Please expand.

[Speck Tater]

28. Grab a couple square miles on the US-Canadian border and make my own country. nt

[conspirator]

31. That's the dream of any anarchist n/t

[bicentennial_baby]

29. If I could....France

Paris, specifically. I love that city.

Failing that, Canada, B.C.

:)

[dkofos]

30. New Zealand, Canada, Australia

[pagam]

32. Panama

We have land where I can build a home, or I can buy an apartment. hoping to go next year and check out the land, and look at some apartments.

[mnhtnbb]

180. Hey pagam! We're building in Panama. See post 179

:hi:

[warren pease]

33. New Zealand, Canada, Costa Rica - in that order n/t

[Totally Committed]

35. Costa Rica.... hmmmm, maybe I'll add that to my list!

New Zealand has extremely strict emigration restrictions. I looked into emigrating there last year, and it seemed pretty difficult a situation. Have you looked into it?

TC

[warren pease]

49. Yeah, but my wife and I are too old and/or don't have the right skill sets...

We're both 57, which is about 30 years older than what they're looking for. Also, I'm a freelance writer and she's a rather astonishing artist (with typical artist income, unfortunately), and those aren't the skills in demand in NZ.

If I could write C++, or whatever the hell version they're up to now, or design web sites, or if we were in the medical field, chances would improve and age would be much less of a factor.

Canada's a lot easier to get into than NZ, although not that easy. About eight years ago, I hired an immigration lawyer in BC to advise me on how to "improve" my numbers in Canada's point system. He had me squeaking in with just over the minimum, pending the final interview (spouses are automatically admitted). They also have a category for people who would add to Canada's cultural richness, which may actually work for my wife now that she's somewhat of a star.

I don't know anything about Costa Rican immigration. I've been there twice and, if you hate extreme heat and humidity, stay away from either coast. Just unbelievably oppressive, although the bugs seem to do just fine. The central highlands around 4,000 feet are quite comfortable, though, and you can get to the west coast from San Jose for a very few bucks in about 1/2 an hour on Sansa, the national airline -- if you're willing to strap yourself into something that looks like a Greyhound bus with wings suspended from the top and attached with velcro. It actually flies, though, fortunately.

An acquaintance is building a house there as we speak at around the 4K foot level. He plans to be out of here by next spring and is getting pretty antsy about it, hoping to beat imposition of martial law and border closures. Here's an article he did on the move for Online Journal:

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2138.shtml

Anyway, good luck wherever you land. Along with Canada and NZ, Costa Rica has a fine nationalized health care system. And clinics are everywhere; even places with no stores, gas stations, bars or restaurants. A free clinic in the middle of nowhere. Can you imagine anything more offensive to republicans?


wp

[Robson]

58. We've thought about NZ too.

We've been interested in NZ for 20 years but sadly its too late.

BTW so has the rest of the world. If they had kept current policies we'd just corrupt them as we have ourselves. Now they have seriously tightened their immigration policies.

Educated, technically skilled and older US citizens aren't in the demand they were 20 years ago unless they have 10 million to invest.

Maybe Zimbabwe will take us....LOL

Hear that flushing sound? That's the sound of the USA going down the tubes, thanks to self serving corrupt greedy MFing politicians who have served at the pleasure of others instead of US citizens for 25 years.

[warren pease]

Zimbabwe -- now there's an option I hadn't considered...

It's a pretty poor country, so my ridiculously inadequate retirement accounts would probably be enough to buy my way in there. However, between vestigial Boers stirring up occasional shit, massive pollution problems, tribal warfare and the bad luck to have several strategic metals in abundance -- thereby making it a target for the usual imperialist resource grabs -- things might not be much better than here. Still, I'm told there's nobody named Bush or Cheney in a position of power in Zimbabwe, so it has to be at least a modest improvement.


wp

[Robson]

89. So true

<<<Still, I'm told there's nobody named Bush or Cheney in a position of power in Zimbabwe, so it has to be at least a modest improvement.>>>>

LOL....So true my friend.

[KiraBS]

167. Oh no they have Mugabe...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe

Zimbabweans are leaving fast and coming to the UK especially doctors and nurses.

Peaceful African countries try Zambia, Ghana, Namibia or somewhere with great Safari resorts.

[warren pease]

168. Fear not...

I was just kidding. If nothing else, I couldn't handle the climate, which is a real problem for people who grew up in the SF Bay Area and acclimatized to very low humidity and very moderate temps all year. Anyplace with humidity feels like torture; temps in the high '80s get oppressive pretty quickly, and we don't handle extreme cold well either.

Absolute climate wusses, I'm afraid. So Mugabe or not, I think I'll pass.


wp

[livvy]

34. Costa Rica or Belize. I'm a warm weather, wildlife fan. n/t

[shirlden]

53. A big yes to Costa Rica

Just returned from two weeks in CR. Went to enjoy the rain forest and came home in love with the people. Already planning on going back. Not to live. I am too old to make a move like that, but I do want to spend more time there. Two nieces, 17 and 18 went with me and have said they want to marry a Tico boy, as they are the most polite boys they have ever met, not to mention very handsome, respectful, and so healthy looking.

[speakclearly]

169. A big YES for these two countries! Cheap, English. Less

corruption. A stable economy and political system. Reduced drug traffic through there. Lack of a resurgent native population that targets "Yanquis". Basically friendly and honest. Dollar goes a long way.

Downside: disease, warm, hunid, and a questionable medical system (unless you got money).

[bikebloke]

36. It's a lot easier said than done.

I certainly tried. At least if you want to do it the right way. I've met people who've hunkered down in new countrires illegally. Not the best way to live with an axe over your head. If someone takes a grudge against you, you could be turned in and deported.

New Zealand is my first choice now. Once upon a time it was the Scandinavian countries due to the social democratic system. Though now I've grown fond of warmer temps. The Nederlands, Belgium, France (sans Sarko), maybe Spain. Aussie in a pinch.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

37. The island of Corsica

The land of my grandmother. Mountains, rivers, trees, Mediterranean climate, beautiful beaches, natural and unadulturated unprocessed food, and still fairly wild and unspoiled.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/stbens/camera/europe_jun04/images/Evisa,%20Corsica.jpg

[Robson]

92. Sounds wonderful

The second most important mistake about our culture is that the average American still thinks they have a chance at becoming mega rich, but the most important mistake is they think that will make them happy. It won't.

[SoCalDem]

107. Perhaps I'd go back to Tahiti..and this time I would stay

If I could, I would love to live permanenty in 1950's Panama..( I actually did live that era there, but if I could magically keep it the same unspoiled paradise, I would love to live there again)..

[NotGivingUp]

114. Looks wonderful and sounds wonderful, too! n/t

[Fox Mulder]

173. I would love to live there, too.

[irislake]

38. I highly recommend New Zealand.

Canada's too close and too influenced by right-wing America. Were I a young whipper-snapper I would high tail it as far as I could git from the dear ole U.S.A.

But if you want to be closer to home, know that when global warming gets really bad Canada's climate will be more agreeable to you than in the past when we had so much snow and cold. Not that that's good.

Conversely NZ's beautiful climate might become too hot and dry. Check it out.

[malakai2]

39. Canada

Followed by New Zealand, Germany, and France.

[Wwagsthedog]

40. Amsterdam

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[DutchLiberal]

54. Do I have to show you around?

:hi:

[China_cat]

68. No thanks.

Our relatives in Friesland do a good enough job. Not to mention our friend in Waddinxveen.

My husband grew up in Den Haag.

[comtec]

128. YAY ANOTHER DUTCHIE!

Ok I'm not Dutch, but my wife is.
I'm hardly here by choice (id rather Ireland) But My wife had a job and I didn't. It was a pretty logical move.
I have many bitchings and moanings about the Netherlands, but it's home now. so I cope.
Ironically enough I'm working at an American company now. It's nice because my Dutch sucks.
The weather, etc etc, but it's home. I do pray for the day things improve back home enough
moving back to California is a feasible option, but I fear that may never happen now.
On the up side I suppose, as a rare soccer fan (played till I was in HS) there's lots of football here ;)

HUP HOLLAND HUP!

-A patriot in exile.

[helderheid]

151. My husband is Dutch

:hi: Hoi!

[comtec]

154. Hee hee I figured it wasn't directly you :)

Mijn vrouw is Nederlandse.
Hoi! :wave:

[helderheid]

160. You in the States now?

[comtec]

163. Nope, Zwolle NL

Wij hebben een huis et al.

[helderheid]

165. Ik mis Nederland

:(

[comtec]

181. Waar woon je nu dan?

:(

[helderheid]

193. Utah!

[Orrin_73]

189. Zo Zo, je woont in Nederland

[machka]

41. Canada, Australia, Ireland

in that order of preference. Considering monetary concerns, most likely destination would be Canada.

[KAT119]

42. France but Sarkozy is friend of *!!

[BlooInBloo]

43. The continent.

[dysfunctional press]

44. canada, iceland, new zealand, norway

[clemencia1946]

45. Italy!

My goal is to move there in 5 years. I love it there.

[AZBlue]

106. Took the words right out of my mouth!!

Welcome to DU! :hi:
(? - not sure if you're new or just don't post much, lol)

[CTyankee]

134. Do you speak Italian or have relatives there?

I've often thought of extended stays there but even if I went to one of those schools for a month, I think I would miss being able to speak to another American.

I hear Malta is a great retirement place. And is closer to the continent, esp. Italy. I hope to visit there someday as there is much to see.

[Colobo]

46. Southern Spain.

[cureautismnow]

47. Tahiti or Cayman Islands

As Jimmy Buffett would say, "I gotta go where it's warm!"

[stirlingsliver]

50. Cuba, Venezuela, Vietnam, or China

I'd emigrate to Cuba, Venezuela, China, of Vietnam.

If any of those countries would allow me to immigrate in.

[clixtox]

133. I am already gone, most of the time...

I am spending most of my pre-dotage, so far, here in Vietnam, mostly in Saigon(Ho Chi Minh City). Don't tell anyone but this is the most optimistic place on Earth.

The cost of living, even living sorta like an American, is amazingly cheap. The food, especially the fruit, is fabulous. Transportation, lodging and entertainment are cheap or cheaper. My rent+utilities is $300/month right in the middle of this city of over 8 million. VN is the 12th or 13th country in population, about the same as the Philippines. Both countries have around 85+ million people. They both recently passed Germany like it was going backwards...

Beautiful beaches, stunning scenery, and gentle, genteel, gracious, gorgeous and generous people are only some of the reasons I love Vietnam. It is very stable, very safe here for foreigners/tourists including women.

Everyone loves Vietnam, they have/face no capable enemies or viable threats. After kicking our American asses they straightened out Cambodia and faced down China, no more problems since with any foreign exploiters/neocolonialists.

The tourist infrastructure is in the early development stage but there is enough in place to satisfy any visitor, short or long term. Life is improving at a rapid pace for all of the Vietnamese. The poorest people here are living better now than the richest were 20+ years ago!

Capitalism is creating wealth quickly for almost everyone. Communism and corruption are fading away, at different rates, of course...

If I wasn't already here or wanted to move elsewhere, Venezuela or Argentina would be strong possibilities I would consider.

Shhh, don't tell anyone, although there isn't much chance of any Freeper cement heads coming over here. Thank Uncle Ho for that too!

[bdamomma]

140. interesting post, things seem to get better when our asses

are not in a place where we should have never have been.

[Arugula Latte]

51. France, Italy or Australia ... possibly Costa Rica

I daydream about this stuff a lot ... :loveya:

[DutchLiberal]

52. Don't be so sure. Dutch immigration policies have been disastrous for decades.

Now, we are facing the problems with groups of unadjusted young people of Moroccan and Turkish descendant running amok. It's not exactly the all-threatening problem the right-winger make it look like, but still there are serious issues. For years, we let poor people come in and then left them alone... meaning we let them turn away from Dutch society and get into social security without any chance of finding a job. Since a few years, we've unfortunately become obsessed with the total opposite, which is a harsh, inhumane policy that got condemned by Amnesty and the European Union several times. However, that goes exclusively for immigrants coming from Arab/muslim countries.

For those people, we now require them to do a test before they come to our country. In their country of birth, they have to study Dutch language and society and pass a test before they're allowed to come over. (Of course this is not requited for political refugees.) And we made a video introducing the people to our society, showing nude beaches, prostitution, coffee shops, boys kissing (which got ugly reactions when showed at the streets of New York, too!) etc.

[comtec]

129. I do NOT reccomend the Netherlands as a place to immigrate to

Putting aside the near open hostility I have endured from the government, as well as their policies, it's HARD AS HELL to get in here. I got in "so easily" because my wife is Dutch. We married in California years ago with the idea of her moving to California. Well obviously that didn't work and then the economy took a dive with * being selceted in, then after he "won" the second election, I gave up and moved here (see above).

I have adjusted as well as I think is possible and have tried to learn the language as best I can. Sadly the lessons I had through my immigration courses were less than adequate so my speaking ability is below par.

And don't get me started on taxes....

No, it's better you go to a some what less impacted country like.. um... Poland? :)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

55. Japan or the UK

I have lived in Japan, have friends, there, and know how to live there.

I also feel very much at home in the UK--I really like the cultural life. Imagine a country of that size being able to support three monthly classical music magazines when the U.S., with its much larger population, can't even support one. If money were no object, that's where I'd go.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

72. Me too. For much the same reasons.

My mother came from England with her sisters when she was a kid. When we visited England, it felt eerily like "coming home" because my wife's father also came from England.

The odd thing was that our grandparents migrated to England from Ireland.

[dsc]

56. Canada or Spain if I could speak Spanish better

both have given gays full citizenship but I am too old.

[FarLeftRage]

57. Italy

Since I have already applied for citizenshp, and was accepted. All I have to do is live there for a year to be an EU citizen. Plus my family there, would be very happy to have me!!

[Robson]

59. Good for you

Get out of here while you can and enjoy a life where people instead of $$$$money counts.

[FarLeftRage]

77. Oh I will do that...

As soon as my Argentine grilfriend graduates with her college degree.
She is also of Italian heritage and wants to live in the EU, rather than the US.

[warren pease]

74. Did you get in through that deal where one of your grandparents has to have immigrated to the US?

If so, and if that's still an option, I might be able to qualify. Are Sicilians considered Italian for this purpose (or just mongrels)? My grandparents on my father's side were Sicilians -- which is where I get my tall stature, spatulated grape-picking peasant fingers and a fondness for vendetta -- not to mention sweating olive oil instead of saline. They came through Ellis Island in the early 1920s, lived for years in New York City, had my father, who then had me. And I still have relatives in the north around Milan.

Any idea how I could find out if I qualify on that program? Immigration lawyers, Italian immigration authorities, any others? I don't speak the language, unfortunately, but I'm seriously interested in keeping all exit strategies open.


Thanks,

wp

[FarLeftRage]

83. Yes, I did.

Last I knew, Sicily is part if Italy... I was in Messina last spring and they spoke Italian, and looked like me... Ha ha ha! I am only a quarter Italian, but I pass easily for the natives.
I had requested and got all the documents together and submitted them to the Commune where my paternal grandfather was born in Calabria.
Also, it helps to have relatives who are regional government official to "push the paperwork" through.
Check the Italian embassy website for all the details, have a relative in Italy send you birth certificates of your grandparents and just follow the instructions.
I had used no immigration lawyers or authorites to get this done.
I am at basic level Italian language skills and I have found out that when I was there, I picked up on speaking the language quite well.
I am going back for a visit in mid-September.

Let me know if you have any other questions and I will be happy to help you.

[warren pease]

86. Thanks a lot...

And if you don't mind, I would like to PM you occasionally if anything comes up that I need help navigating or understanding -- which is probably most of the process. I promise to only ask truly stupid questions, though, so at least you'll get a good laugh now and then.

Also, I'm pretty decent in rudimentary Spanish. From what I've seen of Italian (mostly reading; they usually speak too fast for me to pick up much), it's not too dissimilar from Spanish. I also was force-fed three years of Latin in high school, so I recognize a lot of the roots of both languages.

Thanks again,


wp

[FarLeftRage]

91. You are most welcome!

Feel free to PM me when you do have questions.
I may not know all the answers, but I can listen.
I am in the process of learning Spanish too.
My girlfriend is from Argentina and her English is not too good.
Yes, both languages are very similiar indeed, as I have found out in learning basic Spanish.

[cordelia]

60. Ireland or Canada n/t

[Blue_Tires]

64. i always used to say brazil

but after watching 'sicko', who can resist france?

[Robson]

94. You got that right

Our US culture of greed over everything disgusts me.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

65. New Zealand

[dollie300]

66. Mexico. n/t

[FreepFryer]

67. The Republic of New York (image attached)

[kestrel91316]

69. Canada, Europe (esp France), or New Zealand

[warren pease]

70. Political refugee status?

Dutchliberal's post #52 got me thinking. I wonder how long it's going to take before civilized countries open their doors to Americans fleeing The Fourth Reich. I know Canada's made some deal with the Reich not to accept AWOLs or draft evaders (assuming that's among the next dozen outrages), but that deal was with Ottawa, not with the Canadian people. I'd be surprised if a sort of underground railroad forms to get Americans out before the jackboot comes down full force on the back of our necks. Maybe there already is such a thing. I damn well hope so.

It would seem to me that those of us who aren't politically and/or religiously insane are pretty damn close to qualifying as political refugees. On the other hand, there are so many horrible refugee catastrophes extant on the planet, the latest one created by our tax dollars, that we'd probably have to get at the end of a very long line.

Plus, these days, not everybody wants a bunch of fat cowboy rednecks moving in next door. Unfortunately, that's our image, thanks to McDonalds and The Commander Guy.


wp

[warren pease]

149. Stupid typo in above post, found too late for editing...

In my "political refugee status" post above, I wrote:

"I'd be surprised if a sort of underground railroad forms to get Americans out before the jackboot comes down full force on the back of our necks." Which is the exact opposite of what I meant to say.

The sentence should have started with, "I WOULDN'T be surprised if a sort of underground railroad..."

Sorry for any confusion.


wp

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

71. The UK or Japan.

Been to both, loved both.

[MaraJade]

104. So Have I

but the expense! Whew!!!! $$$$$ Living in either place will wipe you out financially
unless you are wealthy.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

75. Holland or England

Never been to Holland, would love to go. Spent two years in England, back in the mid 70s, always wished I could go back.

[comtec]

130. A GREAT deal has changed since the 70's. Hell alot has changed in the last 10 years

When I first Came to the Netherlands nearly 10 years ago to meet my lovely bride (way back before the internet was considered for meeting people to love) The Netherlands closed at 6 every day, earlier on Saturdays, and was totally closed on Sundays. This is not hyperbole or a joke. The country literally was CLOSED!

Now (at least here in Zwolle) grocery stores are open until 8pm Monday to Saturday, buy Sunday is once a month (The city center for some cities is open one Sunday a month) and things cost a hell of a lot more since the €uro took over the Guilder.

I would recommend England, to be honest for a place to move to. The culture shock of living here in The Netherlands is quite something and more than many people can handle. (Something the anti immigrant-ers ignore is the number of people who LEAVE). The UK us far closer to our culture than the Netherlands. It's a nice place to visit, but difficult to live here.

-A patriot in exile.

[marmar]

138. Canada, Denmark or The Netherlands.

1. Canada, because it's a very short trip from Detroit.
2. Denmark (or Norway or Sweden), because of their stewardship of "the commons."
3. The Netherlands - A M S T E R D A M. And I like the way the Dutch do things. I fall more in love with the place with each visit.

[comtec]

147. I recomend # 1 or 2 then. Trust me you want to keep A'dam as a vacation spot

You REALLY don't want to learn the in's n out's of how things actually work here. Trust me, just visit, have a good time, then go home LOL.

[terrya]

79. Canada

Nationalized health care, a country that truly takes care of its own, well respected around the world...and virtual full equality for GLBT people.

[Robson]

95. Canada most respected

Canada is one of the most respected countries. They take care of their own and respect human rights. They aren't a policeman of the world that says my way or the highway. Two of the least respected countries....Israel and USA. The USA is all about greed and power.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

80. Ireland.

Mr. Wonderful and myself own a house in Co. Down. It's rented out right now, but all we have to do is give the tenant two months notice and they have to leave.

[1620rock]

85. Canada!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[supernova]

84. UK or Ireland

I'm an anglophile at heart so it would suit me fine.

I could probably be happy in France or Germany too. Well, anywhere in Western Europe, actually.

[roody]

87. Cuba, Venezuela, Panama, Nicaragua, or Ecuador.

Be sure to think of and thank an unskilled, penniless, illiterate farm worker when you eat your cheap food and drink your wine.

[Robson]

96. I'll gladly pay

But most of us would gladly pay the going rate for legal Americans to do that job at a more than fair wage rate PLUS benefits. But we don't have that option thanks to the worthless self serving greedy pro-corporate leadership in this country.

[many a good man]

88. What kind of BS is this?

Unlike the USA, most countries strictly control their immigration, and demand that immigrants meet requirements of health, age, language, financial security, skills to obtain a resident visa. Here in the USA it is obvious that the powers that be just let the gates open so any unskilled, penniless, illiterate, healthy or unhealthy, can come in so the rich get richer and political parties get votes

Ask anyone who has tried to immigrate here and you'll find the requirements are just as strict as most other countries. Unless you're a refugee, you need to prove that you possess skills that are in demand. And sorry, other countries do not require that you speak the local language.

[ForrestGump]

125. True

Yes, there are exceptions for 'agricultural workers' (and that's sucked for those of us who would like to get our brothers in but who happen not to come from Mexico...not fair at all, but driven by the greed of those who profit from cheap imported/indentured labor in California and elsewhere), but otherwise it's about as hard to get in to the US as anywhere else. You essentially have to prove that you're capable of doing a job that nobody in the US can, and your potential employer has to advertise the position for some length of time in the US...that's the way it was in the '90s, anyway.

Also, it was my understanding that the US and other countries typically apply reciprocal measures not only in terms of who needs a visa but in terms of permanent or temporary immigration. If Country A makes it harder for US citizens to gain entry or employment, etc, the USA makes it as hard for citizens of Country A.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

90. I'm Happy Here, And Couldn't Really Picture Living Anywhere Else Or Liking Somewhere Else Better.

Maybe Amsterdam, not only for the obvious reasons but also because the people there are so wonderful. Other than that, couldn't really think of anywhere that I'd want to stay longer than a few week vacation.

[rug]

93. New Jersey.

[JNelson6563]

97. Canada

I have lots of family there as they came from Ireland via Canada. Many stayed there. There's a place called Timmons in Ontario. My maiden name is Timmmins. I might immigrate there, become mayor and my first order of business would be to correct the spelling of the city name.

:toast:

Julie

[-..__...]

98. Nowhere...

Any country that would accept me as a immigrant/resident is not the kind of place I'd want to relocate to.

:smoke:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

99. England.

[Toasterlad]

100. Canada, New Zealand, or Australia.

In that order. Actually, I'd be living in Canada TODAY if I had the monetary resources (it's VERY expensive to move there just in paperwork alone) and if I could find a job. I hate to turn my back on my country, but my country turned its back on me long ago.

[MaraJade]

101. This sounds really dumb, but

my first choice would be Israel. Went there, LOVED it there, and was very well received and treated.
Despite all of the problems, Israel embraced me, and I embraced it.

Did I say that I am black? Didn't make any difference at all in Israel, and that was impressive.

Second would be my husband's home country, Canada. Mum and Dad (his parents--and MINE by love) are there, as well as
many relatives, whom I love dearly. I love Canada, and would go in a heartbeat. I love the way Canadian homes are
built. There are subtle differences in construction that just make them better built than houses here. And the
cities are so cosmopolitan.

Third would probably be Tahiti. Went there for our honeymoon. All I can say is too bad the French
government limits immigration to Tahiti.

Final choices would be the Virgins in the Carribbean or the Dominican Republic.

[Ikonoklast]

103. Ireland, 'cause I qualify for citizenship

I was making plans with my Dad this evening for a tour in the spring.

But if not the Emerald Isle, Spain. I have family there.

[kineneb]

105. don't have to move...I live in (rural) California

which is another country, is 3000 miles from Wash.DC, and 45 min from the closest freeway...

outside the continental US, my choices are Germany or the Flemish part of Belgium. I speak German fairly well, and learning Flemish would not be too difficult.

[comtec]

131. To you sir, I say woot!

Probably the best place to be is rural California.
The trick to immigrating to Germany, is you need to be German.
I am a full quarter on my mother's side so I could... but then I'd have to live with all those Germans! (Dutch joke)

Also a note about Flemish (or bad Dutch as some friends might say) It has very little to do with Dutch, and less to do with German. When I read subtitles, I can't really tell the difference between Dutch and Flems but there is a huge difference between German and Dutch. Dutch is closer to English than German. Flems is more like a bad head cold ;). Sorry Dutchies have rubbed off on me in many bad ways. Northern België is a beautiful area. Very Dutch and friendly. It's the southern (French) bit that's a bit.. um.. French :)

Either way I HIGHLY recommend visiting and renting a car and driving around (get diesel as it get better mileage, and is cheaper then petrol) Not enough Americans leave to even look at other cultures, and that is our largest problem. TOO SELF CENTERED!!!

-A patriot in exile

[kineneb]

158. have visited both Germany and Belgium

in 1977, I spent the summer traveling around Europe, and stayed with family friends in Germany. Then in 2002, Hubby and I went to Antwerp so I could do research for my (never completed) master's thesis. While there, we "hopped" over (a 10 hr train trip) to central Germany to visit my long-time pen pal.

I wouldn't mind living with the Germans, as I have German ancestors on both sides of my family, and Grandpa's parents still spoke the language until forced to stop during WWI. Five generations (including me) in the US still has not washed out some of the cultural practices in our family. I also sang in a German choir in the Bay Area for 12 years.

We fell in love with Belgium when we were there. Being a medieval history fan, I really enjoyed Antwerp. For a "big" city, it felt very comfortable, not at all impersonal. I found Dutch/Flemish to be half-way between English and German, and started to pick up some of it in the two weeks we were there. I doubt it would be difficult for me to learn; learning languages is relatively easy for me.

I lived in Iran for the school year 1970-71, and while it was a nice place to visit, as a blond, I did not fit in. My step-father is from Iran, so my family is truly international.

I feel most at home either in CA or in Europe. I don't think I would want to live in other parts of the US.

[comtec]

164. For all it's faults, if I have to live outside Caliornia

I think I'm happy enough here. Zwolle is a beautiful little city. Just big enough to be open long enough and have everything I want, not just need :)

[Critters2]

108. France

I majored in French and European History. And the French Reformed Church ordains women and needs pastors. So, France it is.

[NotGivingUp]

109. I've been thinking about it for a few years...more seriously recently.

My husband and I have considered many countries: Canada, Costa Rica, France, New Zealand. Right now it looks like we're leaning towards Costa Rica. We've even started learning a little Spanish. Going to look into getting our passports this week.

[Catherine Vincent]

112. The New United States of America!

Or Canada. :)

[defendandprotect]

113. Actually, the number of Americans leaving America picked up some while back . . .

I guess I have to go look up the figures now --
I'll try to report back --

[NotGivingUp]

118. I'd be very interested in those numbers. Is there a website with that info? n/t

[bdamomma]

141. I was also curious about that.

I either read somewhere that there have been at least 383,000 departures.

[NotGivingUp]

153. I've got a book called "Getting Out". The estimate is at least a QUARTER MILLION PER YEAR! n/t

[Dinger]

115. Norway

I have relatives there, near Kristinsand.

[treestar]

116. The US immigration law is very restrictive

It is very complex and not nearly as sensible as most other countries' laws.

"Here in the USA it is obvious that the powers that be just let the gates open so any unskilled, penniless, illiterate, healthy or unhealthy" sounds vaguely like that poem on the Statue of Liberty.

Even the few who happen to qualify under one of the quotas would be inadmissible for all the stuff you mention.

US citizens can't have their relatives come if they (the US citizens) are too poor, either.

I wouldn't emigrate - why emigrate from a country that mostly, other people want to come to?

[lpbk2713]

117. Spain, Costa del Sol

It's been years since I was there and I'm sure it's even better now.

[JohnLocke]

120. Israel

[datasuspect]

121. UK

i don't need a visa to go there.

[KillCapitalism]

122. Cuba or Venezuela

The reason for that is that they have socialism, I'd be happy there.

[Maru Kitteh]

123. I don't think anythings stopping you from moving to either of them.

Send us a post card, don't let the door hit ya, and all that stuff.

You could be a roamin' knome, or something like one.

[KillCapitalism]

124. I can't go there.

They don't let anyone in, including fellow socialists.

[Blue-Jay]

182. You should try harder.

[ima_sinnic]

126. how can Social Security be "sucked up" by those who haven't paid into it?

Your post is hugely misinformed and hatefully xenophobic.
Immigrants to the U.S. must meet many conditions, including either family ties or sponsorship by an employer--and then there are quotas that can create a years-long backlog. Not just "anybody" can immigrate to the U.S. They are examined and cross-examined. Even spouses can wait years to be approved. I know all this because I was married to someone from another country and sponsored him as an immigrant. It was a horrendous mountain of paperwork and bureaucratic bs. We were lucky in that it took only nine months for his permanent residency to be approved. Even then he was always subject to certain regulations and had to keep Immigration informed of his whereabouts and marital status.

In order to collect Social Security, one must pay into it for "40 quarters"; i.e., a total of 10 years. The same applies to Social Security Disability, which requires so much hoop-jumping it would seem insurmountable. I know this also because when my husband became disabled and unable to work, he was flat-out refused any form of disability or SS, after six or seven years of working here. It is very black-&-white.

People who come here illegally and work with a bogus SS number are PAYING INTO the system without ever taking anything out of it. So how is that "sucking up" Social Security?

[Robson]

146. I'll try and explain

Not to hijack my own thread as I was interested primarily where people would emigrate to and why, if they could.

I know some will always believe it is xenophobic to speak critically of those 30 million illegals in this country (and yes there are probably at least 30 million as the administration has a big incentive to underestimate them). I speak critically of them and the greedy bastards that hire and rent to them because they lower wages for US citizens and circumvent the laws of the country. I suspect that at some time in the near future, the politicos will give them all amnesty again just as they did in 1986, and allow them to tap into our already defunct Social security and medicare system even though they have and will pay relatively little into it, relative to most long term citizens.

Speaking of SSI I personally know of several life long US citizens that collect it as fully disabled for things like back injuries, while they continue to do things under the table that requires physical effort. I have no idea if they handle SSI differently for legal immigrants. So if my sample of one is significant there are many people abusing the system. SSI should not be easy to get and it should be closely monitored for those that do, unless their disability is 100% and an obvious problem such as paralysis or brain damage, etc.

[ima_sinnic]

162. so you really don't know of any illegals "sucking" SS.

you are talking about US citizen con artists and the remark about SS was just meant as a further unwarranted and ignorant-RW-talking-point smear of "illegals."

As I indicated in my previous post, as far as I know, SSI is quite difficult to get; a disability lawyer said that it is pretty much routine to automatically turn people down the first time they apply and requires a months- or even years-long process of application and investigation. There are many kinds of disabilities, not all are obvious to the eye. You say you know "several" people abusing the SS system--I personally know NO ONE who is collecting SSI except for my brother, who has Down Syndrome and gets a tiny allowance from SSI in addition to family resources and a part-time job.

Personally I couldn't care less about "illegals"-- I think their numbers are blown out of proportion, I do like getting tomatoes and other produce cheaply (are you willing to pay a lot more for fresh produce?), and, like I said, they are putting into the SS system and not taking it out. They are also contributing in other ways, and I respect anyone who has the guts and the drive to risk humiliation, imprisonment, and even death to try to better the lives of his/her family. Further, because the globalist pigs have plundered the poor countries of the world, where else should they go to get something back?

[Robson]

177. I think we might not agree

I sense we'll have to agree to disagree.

Should we be happy and respect those immigrants who believe they have the right to break our laws and jump ahead in line of legal immigrants? I can't agree there.

I'll be more than happy to pay more for vegetables, etc. and to restrict our labor force to only legal US citizens. I'm also willing to sacrifice and pay more for "made in USA" products....unlike some who are willing to sell out our country so they can buy it for a couple of cents cheaper. I agree that the glabalist pigs have plundered the USA.

Our social security and medicare is literally insolvent. Adding millions of low skilled people that are are here illegally and have no business tapping into our system is an outrage.

[Skittles]

127. England

lived there when I was a kid and loved it; never really got England out of my system......my mum is a Brit so it always feels like home when I am there

[Enoch1981]

132. Mexico!!

I don't know if its still true, but I read on the State Department website that one can get Mexican citizenship if one parent is a Mexican national. The only hurdle would be learning Spanish and actually contacting him, lol. I look way more Mexican then Japanese* so there wouldn't be much difficulty blending in.I have nothing but love for my fellow Mexicans. It'd be nice to live somewhere where people don't look at you like a potential criminal. :-)

(*1/2 Mexican, 1/2 Japanese descent)

The hows and means of fleeing the country has always been a favorite intellectual exercise of mine

[bdamomma]

135. get those passports first.

[bdamomma]

136. shameful, what this disgusting regime is doing to us

to even think this, they are displacing millions of Iraqis, and now we are thinking the same, it should be the other way around we should displace this regime. This is our country damn it!!!!

[Norrin Radd]

139. Cascadia.

[mmonk]

142. Canada, Scotland, or the British Virgin Islands.

Already have in the strategies for these should things get worse.

[laruemtt]

143. st. lucia -

after living there for a year, my heart belongs to that island. :loveya:

[lapislzi]

145. I actually considered going back to South Africa

Although the South Africans I speak to are all gloom and doom about the economy and crime. Yesterday's NYT article about rolling blackouts wasn't encouraging either. My daughter was born there and I still retain my SA permanent residence status.

Australia: could get in through family/friend connections. Another NYT article about drought conditions being the worst in 1,000 years (one THOUSAND!) and wildly fluctuating food supplies and prices gave me pause.

Canada: SO could obtain dual citizenship. It's a thought.

Chile: brand shiny new government with agnostic president, wine, beaches, skiing...I speak Spanish. It could work.

NZ: We'd never get in. We're too old and lack the skill sets.

France/Spain/other EU: we'd never get in and it's too expensive to retire to.

Anywhere but here? It's beginning to look that way, isn't it?

[harun]

148. France or Cuba (n/t)

[helderheid]

150. The Netherlands.

[Le Taz Hot]

152. I don't think there IS any place.

Everyone hates us and there are age/money restrictions that disallow anyone over 45 to immigrate anywhere.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

155. I have lived overseas...

in Germany and Italy, and would live in either of those places again.

However if it were in my retirement I think it would be Barbados, Costa Rica, or if I wanted to stay closer to home, Vancouver.

[lastliberalintexas]

156. Suisse

I didn't read the entire thread, but I didn't see anyone mention Switzerland. I'd move there in a minute if I could get in, preferably the French side since I'm semi-fluent. Though of course I'd learn Swiss German if I needed to!


Unfortunately it seems to be getting harder to legally move to an EU country these days. *sigh*

[jeffrey_X]

161. France, New Zealand or Australia

eom

[bamacrat]

166. Holland, Switzerland or Spain.

Maybe Canada if I could get in.

[ceile]

170. Ireland.

Although I hate the hold the Catholic Church has on the country, it is becoming less and less. The economy is great, education is above parr and well, I love Smithwicks!

[Thothmes]

171. British Columbia or New Zealand

[Fox Mulder]

172. Ireland, England, Italy, or Romania.

Any of those four countries would make me extremely happy.

Edit: I'd like to add the island of Sicily to my list too.

[in_cog_ni_to]

174. France, UK or Costa Rica. n/t

[lse7581011]

175. Aruba!

Did it 18 years ago and lived there for four years. Fabulous experience-came home due to aging parents-otherwise would still live there!

[Scout]

176. husband has family in western Canada ... i'd try for there first. n/t

[viat0r]

178. Hmmm does anyoyone know??

Id like a list of the top ten EASIEST countries to immigrate to or maybe top 5?

[mnhtnbb]

179. Panama. We are building a house there and have already obtained resident visas.

We are thinking of retiring to Panama in 2008. We will probably sell our house
in NC. Whether we rent an apartment here and split our time between Chapel Hill
and Panama will probably depend upon where our son goes to college and whether
the Dems regain the WH and control Congress.

We searched for a place outside the US after the 04 election and settled on Panama.
We're retirement age and neither Canada nor New Zealand wants retirees.
Ireland and England were too expensive; we took a serious look at Belize
and passed because of the hurricane risk. We also took a look at Bonaire--but it's very expensive to live there and they have a crime problem (we were robbed in the middle of the night in our rented beach house while we were sleeping).

The house we are building in Panama is part of a resort development on an island in the Bocas region (Caribbean side)and has armed guards 24/7. Access is only by boat.

[MazeRat7]

183. Some place with culture, herbs, unique music, and more than 1000 yrs of history - nt

[ObaMania]

184. England, Italy, or Honduras...

.. then I have to worry about getting a job, so I guess I'm stuck here.

[iverglas]

185. why would anyone bother responding to this shit?

Unlike the USA, most countries strictly control their immigration, and demand that immigrants meet requirements of health, age, language, financial security, skills to obtain a resident visa. Here in the USA it is obvious that the powers that be just let the gates open so any unskilled, penniless, illiterate, healthy or unhealthy, can come in so the rich get richer and political parties get votes. Obviously the result will be that what's left of our social security and health care will soon be sucked up by those that have paid little into it. To compound it they don't have the skills to get a job that does pay good wages.

I can't speak for all Canadians, but I assure you that anyone with this attitude is not welcome in MY Canada, so please don't be looking in this direction.

By the way, over 50% more of the Canadian population than of the US population was born outside the country, so I doubt you'd be wanting to join us here anyway. We're obviously headed for hell in a handbasket.

[Robson]

194. Guess I can't agree, but thanks for replying

Does Canada have 30 million illegal immigrants, most without a high school education, and most invited in to serve the interests of greedy business owners looking for warm bodies paid cash with no taxes via an underground economy?

BTW I've seen Canada's immigration requirements and they are quite strict as far as education or skills, age, wealth, etc. You don't need to worry as it is likely we couldn't get in.

The USA doesn't need more unskilled labor. Instead we need to give US citizens the opportunity to get reasonably priced technical and vocational education. Then we can work to design systems that reduce the need for manual labor. The illegal immigration problem is a slippery slope to the downside as the costs of their social services, education, health care reduces the potential that advanced education for our citizens will ever be made more affordable or subsidized.

Edited to add: It's time the USA looks out for its citizenry and its own internal (not corporate) interests, otherwise we'll end up unable to help anyone. I don't believe it's going to happen because the special interests have control. Perhaps it's time to find a lifeboat and leave the Titanic.

[Vidar]

186. Italy.

[bdamomma]

187. read this article from Raw Story today regarding Canada

http://www.rawstory.com/showoutarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbc.ca%2Fcanada%2Fstory%2F2007%2F07%2F30%2Fimmigrants-us.html%3Fref%3Drss

[piesRsquare]

190. Israel

Without a doubt.

[ThatsMyBarack]

191. Genovia

If only that fictional country REALLY existed between France and Spain like it does in The Princess Diaries.

[KansDem]

192. Isle of Man (?)

Ever since I saw "Waking Ned Devine," I've thought about a trip to the Isle of Man (I believe the movie was filmed there). But there are other considerations as well: health care, cost of living, etc.

Anybody know anything about the Isle of Man?

Here's some info:

What makes the Isle of Man different from anywhere else in the British Isles? Many things! The Island is a unique self-governing kingdom - a Crown dependency which belongs to neither the UK nor the European Union. It has its own parliament (called Tynwald), laws, traditions, culture, cuisine and postage stamps. But as a holiday island it is best known for its very agreeable and relaxed pace of life, along with a wealth of attractions and places to stay. And while other differences include the Manx language and currency (though English is the spoken tongue and English and UK currencies are accepted everywhere), there are also reassuring familiarities - such as driving on the left and road signs in English.

How big is the Isle of Man?
It is 33 miles long, 13 miles wide and covers an area of 227 square miles. More than 40% of the Island is uninhabited.

Isle of Man

Edited to add map:

[nolabels]

195. Yours is a B.S. diatribe

I don't know what is going to happen with the solid influx of people from other places but know it will eventually be okay somehow, in the end. I am also willing to bet that these kind people that try to ridicule these other people who come from other lands don't really know that much about them.

I would also philosophize that if one is not so fixed on holding on to that certain something then one could see that holding onto anything really an exercise in futility. The holding on is for scared little people who might even be frightened by their own shadow.