Those four or five big nasty cuts are what caused the bridge to collapse.

[Hubert Flottz]

The Big Bush Tax Cuts For The Wealthy...while the country is at war, has caused the government to cut corners and under fund the upkeep and inspection of America's infrastructure. Just like how the Corps of Engineers didn't spend the money in New Orleans, to fix the problems that they knew existed, long before Katrina ever came ashore. The DOT knew there were problems with that bridge, but they failed to spend the money to fix it.

Look for more of this type of thing to happen, sooner, rather than later. Bush is funding his cronies, the haves and have mores and funding his faith based bribery and his elective war, while the cookie crumbles.

[annabanana]

1. ON THE NOSE, Mr. Flottz. . . . This is what happens when you starve the government

.. a corpse in a bathtub can't do repair work on roads and bridges and tunnels. .

[Hubert Flottz]

3. I see it happening here in West Virginia...

Our bridges are under attack from overweight coal trucks hauling 40 tons more per load than the trucks or the bridges were designed for. It's just a matter of time here.

Edit to add...

Overweight Coal Trucks

Overweight coal trucks have been a problem in West Virginia for years. Trucks weighing nearly 200,000 pounds have been weighed on roads in the southern coalfields. As coal trucks have become heavier, they have become more of a hazard to innocent bystanders. Since January of 2000, at least 18 people have been killed in accidents involving coal trucks. (See sidebar for various citation and accident data). In addition they cost West Virginia taxpayers millions of dollars in road and bridge repairs.

In the summer of 2002, a West Virginia Division of Highways engineer told Governor Wise's work group studying overweight coal trucks, that the cost to upgrade the state's roads to handle heavier loads would amount to $6.5 billion. Raising coal truck weight limits is a bad idea, not only financially, but also in terms of public safety. Heavier trucks take longer to stop, are more likely to roll over and are harder to control.

The problem with overweight coal trucks can largely be attributed to a lack of enforcement. A 2002 report by the West Virginia Division of Highways found that the state's "current laws and policies dealing with enforcement of highway weight limits are almost self-defeating" and "are not seriously designed to deter overloads." Law enforcement has been so lax, that operators are purchasing newer trucks that are overweight even when empty...MORE....

http://www.wvcag.org/issues/overweight_coal_trucks/index.htm

[Lasher]

5. Silver Bridge redux?

Beware the Mothman.

[Hubert Flottz]

30. The Silver Bridge was the first thing I thought of when I heard about

the bridge falling yesterday evening. At least the people working on this one weren't doing it in freezing weather, like when the Silver Bridge fell.

[madokie]

95. Silver Bridge Collapse

http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Bridges/Silver-Bridge.htm

On December 15,1967 at approximately 5 p.m., the U.S. Highway 35 bridge connecting Point Pleasant, West Virginia and Kanauga, Ohio suddenly collapsed into the Ohio River. At the time of failure, thirty- seven vehicles were crossing the bridge span, and thirty-one of those automobiles fell with the bridge. Forty- six individuals perished with the buckling of the bridge and nine were seriously injured. Along with the numerous fatalities and injuries, a major transportation route connecting West Virginia and Ohio was destroyed, disrupting the lives of many and striking fear across the nation. (reference)

The General Corporation and the American Bridge Company constructed the Highway Bridge in 1928. It was designed as a two-lane eye-bar suspension type bridge, measuring 2,235 feet in total length, including the approaches. The bridge was designed under the specifications set forth by the American Society of Civil Engineers.


The bridge was dubbed the 'Silver Bridge' because it was the country's first aluminum painted bridge. It was designed with a twenty-two foot roadway and one five-foot sidewalk. Some unique engineering techniques were featured on the Silver Bridge such as 'High Tension' eye-bar chains, a unique anchorage system, and 'Rocker" towers. The Silver Bridge was the first eye-bar suspension bridge of its type to be constructed in the United States. The bridge's eye-bars were linked together in pairs like a chain.

A huge pin passed through the eye and linked each piece to the next. Each chain link consisted of a pair of 2" x 12" bars and was connected by an 11" pin. The length of each chain varied depending upon its location on the bridge.

[Hubert Flottz]

97. It was a very sad time here in West Virginia...

The cold weather and iron gray skies made the rescue and recovery seem even more horrid. I think it was the worst Christmas I can ever remember here in this state. I remember the bridge along with Christmas and cold, because my Dad and I went to visit some friends at Point Pleasant on Christmas eve and we went over there on the river bank and looked at the wreckage. The wind was strong and icy that day and filled with snow flurries and blowing up big white caps on the river, as the grim recovery work went on.

I've worked for the American Bridge Company and one of my bosses was an Okie. Big Chief Bunny Warren, was a legendary AB hand. Bunny(Chief Runnin' Mouth)is probably down there lining the Devil out right now!

[madokie]

98. The Interstate 40 Bridge Collapse at Webbers Falls

http://www.odl.state.ok.us/usinfo/topiclists/us-i40.htM

In both human and economic costs, the collapse of the I-40 bridge near Webbers Falls ranks as one of the worst river disasters in Oklahoma's history. Yet many have argued that the bridge would have withstood the barge impact had it been built in accordance with modern structural standards.

The deteriorating state of Oklahoma's bridges was made evident earlier in May by a report from "The Road Information Program" (TRIP), which examined the conditions of Oklahoma's bridges. The study found that thirty-three percent of the state's bridges are "structurally deficient" and seven percent are "functionally obsolete." Researchers also discovered that more of Oklahoma's bridges were built in the 1930s - 24 percent - than during any other decade.

The problem of deficient and obsolete bridges is not strictly local to Oklahoma. According to TRIP and the Federal Highway Administration, approximately one-quarter of the bridges in the United States need immediate repair or replacement, and capital investment in bridge and roadway projects has been far too low for many years. At the time of TRIP's latest national report, this remained the case.

The following are links to various government-related materials concerning the bridge collapse, the response of both the state and federal governments, and the larger issue of deficient and obsolete bridges in Oklahoma and across the country.

[UnyieldingHierophant]

102. I blame the mothman*

[bleedingheart]

51. I am waiting for the uproar in Pittsburgh to start...City of Bridges

There were reports giving "grades" to our local infrastructure...not many passed..

[Lasher]

7. LOL!

How succinct of you. :thumbsup:

[Beerboy]

18. So do you have a preliminary report the rest of us

should know about? I'm sure the lawyers about to sue would be very interested in accessing those documents you have, if any.
You're posting on top of at least 7 dead bodies to make a political point?
Wow.
I think I've seen enough.

[madokie]

24. Do you really think for a minute you are going to fit in here

I don't but thats just me

[Beerboy]

28. No, I guess not.

So you too figure the Bushco regime just takes out major bridges for whatever reason? How does that help Bushco? I seriously don't get where you're coming from, but then you probably know all your friends and family are OK, unlike we up in Minneapolis.
Is there something you know you'd like to tell us?

[madokie]

31. no one has said that the bush* crew took the bridge out personally

what the man is referring to is the tax cuts coupled with the illegal war, so now you are going to ask for proof this is an illegal war too, huh, ensuring we don't have the money to keep our infrastructure maintained, is all. you can take your smartass ass and set on it for all I care

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madokie]

40. I'll not worry about you as I don't see you lasting around here much longer

have a good day and whatever you do stay pissed off as its good for your heart,

[Hubert Flottz]

42. LOL

I thought I was in the "No Spin Zone" there for a spell.

[Virginia Dare]

55. George Bush finally figured out how to work the Internets!..

wow, I'm honored that the slacker in chief is gracing us with his presence.

[JuniperLea]

87. LOL!!!

Priceless!

[Hubert Flottz]

43. "Rank and ignorant stupidity tends to piss me off,"

Don't look in any mirrors then...

And you'd better not look at all the GOPers who stood up in congress and preached about how great the tax cuts were going to be for the country.

[GOTV]

58. And so you made up claims to attack rather than deal with what people said. ok, gotcha n/t

[Richard Steele]

36. No one is saying that. You have reading comprehension issues?

[GOTV]

57. Strawman alert! No one claimed Bushco directly "takes out" bridges.

That doesn't mean their policies are not responsible for the collapse.

[Bake]

70. Little money for infrastructure when we're blowing a trillion in Iraq

Bush's War(c) pretty much sucks up all the cash ...

Enjoy your stay; it'll be brief.

Bake

IBTT

[SmokingJacket]

101. Deliberately underfunding infrastructure in order to soften

people up for privatization.

Watch for this: in a few days or weeks, when the shock has worn off, we'll start hearing about the "failure of government" and calls for greater privatization -- allowing private companies to buy bridges, etc.

Watch for it!

[ljm2002]

107. True that...

...also, people need to recognize this decaying and underfunded infrastructure is not a new thing. It's been going on for a long time. And it seems that some governors are better at it than others, no necessarily along party lines.

But the time for finger pointing is long past. It is time our presidential condenters state their plan for fixing the nation's crumbling infrastructure. The tragedy in Minnesota is either a harbinger of things to come, or it is a wakeup call that gets us to address the problem.

I don't care if the companies that do the repair work are private companies -- they will have to be contracted through the government anyway. Maintaining our public roadways and associated structures around the country is a proper thing for the government to spend its money (our money) on.

Y'know, budgets are all about limits. You can tell a cancer because it does not adhere to natural limits on its own growth, thereby killing its host. I'm thinking defense budget here -- it's as though we, and our representatives and senators in congress, are not allowed to know what it is all being spent on, due to "national security"; nor are we or our representatives allowed to question the size of the military budget lest they be called "unpatriotic"; but our nation itself is in jeopardy from within and that is due to the "military industrial complex" that Dwight Eisenhower tried to warn us about. It is said that he originally planned to use the term "military industrial congressional complex" but removed "congress" because it would be too inflammatory for his parting speech. Think about it. That was fifty-some years ago and the ailment that he identified has been growing bigger, more powerful and more bloated than he could have imagined.

But here's the thing. It's all a mind set. If we, the people of the United States of America, quit putting up with this crap, it will stop. I would suggest starting with Truth In Labelling for bridges: every bridge that is part of a federal or state roadway, must have a clearly visible sign stating its structural rating as of its last inspection (the bridge in Minneapolis was rated 50 on a scale of 120, so that would be displayed as: "Structural Rating: 50/120"). This must be prominently displayed, and positioned so that a driver has the ability to turn away and find an alternate route, if they don't like the numbers they are seeing.

[Richard Steele]

32. M'kay.........

[Beerboy]

39. That's grim sala bim, very good subject-line nt

[liberal N proud]

2. More infrastructure failures to come

More failures on Bu$h's watch

[Beerboy]

20. Yes, it's 100% Bushler's Fault!

I think the timing of this is also quite suspect as well. I think I'll fit right in here.
Unfuckingbelievable.

[Le Taz Hot]

35. Welcome to DU

Enjoy your stay.:eyes:

[hfojvt]

71. Here ya go

100% Bush's fault? No, although once upon a time a President did say 'the buck stops here'. The following articles show, briefly, that crumbling bridges and other infrastructure have been a problem for a long time. In general, Republicans have not funded this because they would rather give the money to rich people in the form of tax cuts. I guess Haliburton is not in the construction business or something. Plus, I think there may have been a war that started in 2003 and has taken alot of our attention and money. At least I heard a rumor that this had happened.

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/premium/0286/0286-10478163.html

"The mayors of four U.S. cities asked Congress to provide more federal money to finance improvements in the nation's infrastructure because cities are not able to keep pace with booming growth and need to upgrade their rapidly aging systems, including highways and sewers. " 25 Jul 2001


*** Notice who cut funding AFTER an increase was requested.

http://www.transact.org/transfer/trans02/05_15.asp

"The passage came after a compromise between the House Transportation & Infrastructure Committee and House appropriators left the Revenue Aligned Budget Authority (RABA) mechanism in place, while calling for its revision in the future. The funding cut in the Bush Administration budget was largely due to RABA. " May 15, 2002


**Republican-leaning organization arguing against increasing taxes to fund bridge repair.

http://www.cltg.org/cltg/clt2006/06-10-17.htm

'But several members said the commission has concluded the state cannot adequately fund its highways, mass transit system, and other transportation infrastructure without a significant infusion of new revenue.

"With declining federal revenues and the cost of the Central Artery the state must find additional revenue sources to maintain and expand its highways and mass transit," '

*** Key phrase there 'with declining federal revenues'

http://www.asce.org/reportcard/2005/page.cfm?id=108

"While long-term Federal transportation programs remain unauthorized since expiring on Sept. 30, 2003, the nation continues to shortchange funding for needed transportation improvements." 9 Mar 2005


Hmmm. The nation (under the presumed leadership of President Bush) continues (note in 2005 CONTINUES) to shortchange funding

funding for what? What's that again?

NEEDED TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENTS

[Lasher]

4. People here have been expressing concerns about infrastructure degradation for some time

But don't worry, they'll find some scapegoat to tag with this.

I kid you not, I saw this on TV yesterday: "Government officials believe collapse due to structural failure." Duh. :shrug:

[Beerboy]

26. The first sensible post in this thread I've seen,

At least you're looking at the facts, such as they are at present. The bridge collapsed into shallow water, so most of the evidence should remain as to why the failure happened.
All of the government agencies now have a PR/media nexus, they'll be alright. Even those brain-dead retards don't have a 'Bush Did It' theory yet, wow, this place is fucking un-believable.

[GOTV]

61. Finally someone not claiming that Bush personally wired the bridge with dynamite! Tres sensible! n/

[Ganja Ninja]

6. Exactly! It's the misplaced priorities of the GOP.

When it comes to foreign/military policy it's spend spend spend. But ask them to spend some of that money here at home on Americans and they always come back with the tired old talking point "How are we going to pay for all of this without raising taxes?"

Why didn't they ask that before they started Bush's oil war?

[skids]

8. Work with that a bit...

...I think you've got a winner line there, in the rough. Maybe if the legwork is done to ID specific budget cuts, and then "Manmade cuts discovered that caused bridge collapse."

[bcool]

9. Who needs terrorists when we can do it ourselves?

My thoughts exactly when I heard the horrible news about the collapse...

While we're flushing our tax money down the rat hole in Iraq, our infrastructure is falling apart with no hope of fixing it any time soon.

We don't need to worry about terrorists blowing up things over here - they'll fall apart on their own!

Just think how many bridges, roads, etc. could have been repaired with what we've wasted in Iraq - unbelievable!!!!

[liberal N proud]

11. That is what the terrorist are probably thinking as well

Get us to spend our national wealth fighting wars that can not be won in countries that had nothing to do with terrorism while our own nation crumbles right out from under us.

[GreenPartyVoter]

38. I'd like to rec this reply :^)

[blondie58]

50. and how many sick people could have been helped

and how much money could have gone into finding alternative energy sources?

Welcome to DU.

[Richard Steele]

76. Hi, bcool. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Bryn]

79. Sounds like you'd be an asset to DU

Welcome! :hi: A Voice of Reason!

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Count]

15. Leevees, bridges, electric power grids all fail lately - you don't see a patern?

Neglect, privatization,corruption is what I see.

[Ganja Ninja]

22. Not the CIA the GOP.

Try to follow the logic. GOP cuts budgets and GOP cuts budgets and GOP cuts budgets and GOP cut budgets. Then infrastructure suffers critical failure from lack of through and frequent inspections and proper and timely maintenance or replacement when necessary. Every time the GOP cuts budgets it's as if they cut another structural member out of that bridge. That's why people died yesterday in Minneapolis. We've been putting band-aids on broken legs and it's finally catching up with us.

[malaise]

12. Check this out and send it to

the Greatest
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1494100

[Beerboy]

13. Break out your spread-sheets and PROVE it,

you're making the claim.
I'll probably get banned, but I don't care. Why don't you post the fucking proof that Bush did the I-35 Minneapolis bridge collapse?
I'm sure you have something, but not for political gain? Heh.
Unfuckingbelievable.

[Hubert Flottz]

41. You should get banned...

IMHO...

[Richard Steele]

44. Patience, grasshopper.

I have a feeling pizza is on its way.

[Hubert Flottz]

54. I started working on interstate bridges in 1972 and I've worked on

a bunch of them since then. I've worked on a lot of bridge repair jobs too. I know that if you don't do the inspections and the repairs, that Gawd ain't gonna' hold the bridges up 'cause he likes the republicans. I've watched the GOPers in congress fight like crazed sterno bums for years against every road bill coming down the pike since Ike. Unless of course the GOPers want to build a "bridge to nowhere" for a campaign contributor or a family member.

[Cha]

64. Not here yet!

Ya'll are talking about infra-structure and suds guy is railing that it's c'est impossible that bush could be responsible.

Nice to have a bushit enabler on board..:sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[FogerRox]

89. knock, knock, pizza delivery

[GOTV]

60. Unfuckingbelievable? What - like your ability to invent imaginary statements to attack? n/t

[Bake]

72. What's unfuckingbelievable is your strawman.

NOBODY - I REPEAT NOBODY - said your Boy personally took out the bridge. Nobody said he ordered it to come down. But that's what happens when you spend all the money that could go for domestic needs (like infrastructure) on some shithole war.

You've got to be about gone.

Bake

IBTT 2X

[NMDemDist2]

91. here ya go, and I'm sorry for the pain of you folks in the Twin Cities

Flabbergasted put it together why the collapse can be laid at GOP/Bushco's door. Katrina showed us years ago how badly the infrastructure needed attention but his budget for '08 still isn't showing any improvement in that area

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1501862

I hope you are just upset and you will become a valued member of our community, but defending Bushco around here sure isn't the way to get off to a good start.

[JHB]

14. It goes back farther than Bush...

...but it is the same "mortgage the future" mentality.

"Nuts and Bolts" upkeep is rarely popular with politicians (of any party), because it doesn't provide many photo ops.

New project? That'll get your picture in the paper. Launching a rebuilding/renewal of something your predecessors left to go to pot? The ribbon cutting will make the evening news. Basic upkeep? Bah! No press, no power.

[annabanana]

21. Reaganomics and the "invisible hand of the marketplace. . "

The common good is of no interest to the free market radicals.

[Beerboy]

16. As long as I keep seeing this post

it's a fucking outrage.
Fucking unbelievable.
Oh well, you guys don't know people up here, you're just using us. That fucking sucks ass, but there's nothing I can do about it.
Have fun making fun with your theories, learned one...

[The Count]

17. How am I using you? To do what with you?

What's with the misplaced local pride?

A few years ago, the entire Northeast was plunged in darkness because the nation's power grid was given away to corner cutting corporations. Bush didn't take time from his fundraisers to even comment. You may remember the little levees unpleasanness in NOLA - maybe. Forgive me if I see a connection here - and why the misplaced anger?

[annabanana]

19. I don't think you're reading it right...

We're not saying that B*sh ordered this bridge destroyed. We're saying that his policies that don't support the maintenance of the infrastructure leads to structural failure of vital assets.

(too much for you?)

[geek_sabre]

23. I think its a bit of a stretch

Do you really think this wouldn't have happened under any other president (dem or rep)?

[annabanana]

27. (see #21 above) . . n/t

[bmbmd]

47. Are you saying this was unavoidable?

That the usual routine maintenence of the federal highway system (drastically curtailed by current administration) could not have prevented this? Metal fatigue was diagnosed as early as 2005-and deferred for management until 2020.

[eridani]

90. For 30 years the very notion of public good has been under constant assault by Republicans

You know--don't let the evil gubmint take YOUR money. As if money spent collectively on the public good is somehow not also your money. Public infrastructure is not built and maintained by Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

[Hubert Flottz]

93. "infrastructure is not built and maintained by Santa Claus"

Don't tell Bill O'Really he still is a "Believer" at his age...

[malaise]

25. When the New York pipes burst a few weeks

ago, I posted that it won't be long before we see a bridge collapse.

This is about government policies. People are taxed and infrastructure needs to be maintained rather than giving breaks to the rich.

Not everyone will 'get' this. Put simply when government is shoved into a bathtub, people will fall in rivers.

[Cha]

68. And sending it to

Iraq for their "infra-structure".

[Bluebear]

67. Put down your beer and read it again.

[Bake]

74. It's YOUR BOY who's doing the using ...

Blaming it on the Dems is just total bullshit.

Anybody see a tombstone yet?

Bake

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

100. Well, I'm also FROM "up here"

And I happen to agree with the original post.

Note it took Bush less than a day to try to pin this on the Democrats in congress for not passing "sensible" spending bills to him
And later that afternoon, Tony Snow labeled the governor our our state a Democrat while he was trying to pin everything on him.

There's a "fucking outrage" around here, and it's not the OP.

[Hubert Flottz]

104. Thanks for your support Hong Kong Cavalier

I have friends from "up here" and they and their families and friends are all okay. I hope your family and friends are okay too. The whole country has been ripped off and short-changed since the GOP took the keys to the White House. I hope things will be better for everybody soon.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

108. Everyone's safe and accounted for

Thanks for asking. :hi:

And although we've had Democrats in charge in various places, sometimes their majority is so tenuous and slim that they can't get anything passed.
People keep saying Minnesota is a "blue" state. We've had a GOP controlled legislature for a while (until 2004, I think)
and Republican governs (or one-trick ponies like Ventura) for quite some time.

The Democrats haven't really been "in charge" for quite some time. Not in Minnesota. Not in this country. And the 35W bridge is the result of this.

I hope the "Taxpayers League" (an anti-tax group of wealthy business owners who pretty much control Pawlenty) is choking on their filet mignon tonight.

[tom_paine]

29. Sadly, that is the exact truth

After all, to the Superior and Elect, such as the Royal Bushies, what's tyhe death of a few thousand peasants (or a few hundred thousands or millions if they are brown peasants here or abroad).

This is the sad state to which our nation has fallen under the inhuman corruption of the Royal Busheis and the Loyal Bushie Couriers who do their bidding.

[Richard Steele]

33. Good call, Hubert. Recommended.

[OwnedByFerrets]

34. He must not have any buddies

in the infrastructure business.

[indepat]

45. The proof might be found in the last six federal budgets: just how much funding for repair and

and maintenance of the transportation infrastructure has been available but withheld?

[Summer93]

46. Kick and Recommend

Isn't this similar to what happened to Russia when they sent troops to the middle east. Their government was financially weakened through the expenditures for war and their government collapsed.

Our government spends 60% of revenue on defense. How can a country run on only 40% of it's revenue?

[Hubert Flottz]

49. "How can a country run on only 40% of it's revenue?"

It can't, and the PNAC and the neocons are counting on that.

I've thought all along that they were trying to ruin the country. Even though the neocons are spending all that money on "Defense" they are still working on breaking the military too.

[Eurobabe]

48. Nail meet head

I noticed this in 2006 when I was driving for the last time across Ohio and Penna on my way outta DODGE, how lousy the bridges and roads were, literally crumbling. So glad Asshat got his WAR on, aren't you?

It's nice to live in a democracy that cares about the welfare of its citizens, and I am not referring to the US of A. I contemplated that yesterday as I was taking a high speed train back to my village from the airport.

The US is in full flush mode because of 43.

[lonestarnot]

52. Get them the fuck out! 16 more months... I see Rome burning.

[quiet.american]

53. Yet, there are still zombies who say, "thank God George Bush is our president!" n/t

[truth2power]

59. Fallen bridges

are not respecters of who happened to be on them when they fell.

Bushbots are as likely to be at risk from our broken infrastructure as anyone else. In fact, when a bridge fails, it's quite possible that a *gasp* wealthy Bush supporter may be traversing it in his/her limousine.

Somehow or other, those who promote sending all our money to Iraq to be stolen by Bush's cronies (because Iraq isn't being rebuilt, either. Where is all that money going?) those people who so love Bush, think they're invincible.

There's sort of a grim humor in it. The Bush butt-kissers, the shock jocks, the sheep who "b-a-a" agreeably when Grover Norquist says "government" should be drowned in the bathtub, are as dependent on safe and reliable infrastructure as the rest of us. They, too, stand to be victimized by their complicity in the Bush Administration's madness.

"The common good." What a concept! Reflect on it, Bush supporters who are lurking here. :(

[Chipper Chat]

86. Who me?

[foo_bar]

56. I'm surprised no one's mentioned global warming

Today's disaster happened around rush hour Wednesday, at which time (according to AccuWeather.com) the emperature was at its highest for the day, 92 degrees, and winds were brisk, at 19 mph, also the highest for the day. The high of 92 was 9 degrees above normal and was the 11th day of above normal temperatures. Storms were approaching the city, but had not yet arrived.

http://www.accuweather.com/news-blogs.asp?blog=community&date=2007-08-02_00:50&month=8

[GOTV]

63. Probably because that bridge has been subjected to temperatures in the 90's many times n/t

[foo_bar]

69. "11th day of above normal temperatures"

Exposing a material to high temperatures is another cause of fatigue in materials. Thermal expansion, and contraction will weaken bonds in a material as well as bonds between two different materials. For example, in space shuttle heat shield tiles, the outer covering of silicon tetraboride (SiB4) has a different coefficient of thermal expansion than the Carbon-Carbon Composite. Upon re-entry into the earth's atmosphere, this thermal mismatch will cause the protective covering to weaken, and eventually fail with repeated cycles.

http://www.sv.vt.edu/classes/MSE2094_NoteBook/97ClassProj/anal/kelly/fatigue.html

[GOTV]

73. Almost every summer brings some number of days above normal as does every season n/t

[foo_bar]

78. "it's been hot before" doesn't really address cumulative fatigue or even global warming

During a televised hearing, Feynman famously demonstrated how the O-rings became less resilient and subject to seal failures at ice-cold temperatures by immersing a sample of the material in a glass of ice water.<27>

Feynman was so critical of flaws in NASA's "safety culture" that he threatened to remove his name from the report unless it included his personal observations on the reliability of the shuttle, which appeared as Appendix F.<28> In the appendix, he argued that the estimates of reliability offered by NASA management were wildly unrealistic, differing as much as a thousandfold from the estimates of working engineers. "For a successful technology," he concluded, "reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Challenger_disaster

I'm not suggesting manmade climate change (or even local temperature variance) was the ultimate cause of failure, I'm just not sure it can be ruled out as a contributing factor, given the equivocal tone of what I've been reading:

At this time I would say that the cause lies more likely with the construction ongoing or simply the age of the 30-year old bridge, rather than the weather, but I will post more information when it becomes available.

http://www.accuweather.com/news-blogs.asp?blog=community&date=2007-08-02_00:50&month=8 ("MN Bridge Collapse - Weather Related?")

Kris Luger, a 21-year-old ironworker for Minnesota Local 512, drew on his education to draw some conclusions about what happened.

"In ironworker school, the first thing they teach you is that heat and stress over longer periods of time make steel become brittle," said Luger, of Minneapolis. "With the recent heat, traffic and jackhammers, you could see it. It was going to collapse sooner or later."

http://www.twincities.com/allheadlines/ci_6526116

[GOTV]

80. "it's been hot before" doesn't dispute global warming. It does explain why Global Warming ...

... is not believed to be blamed for this bridge collapsing. The temperatures were not record setting. The bridge has survived temperatures in the 90's many many times.

It fell because all bridges fall eventually when not well maintained.

[foo_bar]

99. "the bridge has survived... many many times"

Why a bridge fails is never really dependent one single factor, notes a Peter Birkemoe, retired University of Toronto professor and structural engineer expert. Any assorted combination of fractures, stability, weather, materials used and load bearing, can cause a structure to collapse.

“Any infrastructure which is built can fail,” says Birkemoe. “The suddenness of this collapse means it could be likely associated with a fracture of some kind. However, there is a combination of things it could be, from the refurbishment happening on it, to the potential of thermal effects, to the fact it was in 40 years in service.”

http://dcnonl.com/article/id23890

Bridges are designed to carry twice their stated weight capacity, said Richard Hughes, an engineering consultant based in Pennsylvania. Another way bridges deteriorate is through wear and tear from the weather, he said.

Given the vast fluctuations in weather in places such as Minnesota and Illinois, thermal expansion can prove detrimental to bridges. From below-zero to the mid-90s, a bridge can expand by as much as 3 feet as it heats up, Hughes said.

During the winter, sand and salt get into areas that allow the bridge to stretch, and the resulting rust can lock them into position. When the bridges heat up there is insufficient flexibility, which can lead to a collapse, Hughes said.

Weather-related damage can be difficult to detect, he added.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-howsafe_03aug03,1,4284279.story

[GOTV]

62. Sure people died, but they also got BIG TAX CUTS! Let's call it even...

... I'm just speculating how a republican justifies this.

[roamer65]

65. Let the GOP have their convention in Minneapolis next year...

...and have to look Minnesotans squarely in the eyes after this tragedy. Very fitting, IMHO.

Remember Katrina. Remember 35W.

[The Stranger]

66. How about ONE TRILLION on the Iraq war crime/occupation?

[lebkuchen]

75. Six years of republican tax cuts and a trillion dollar neverending war

If this doesn't upset the remaining 30% of Bush hangers on, nothing will. It is much too obvious what happened. All this political glad-handing is making me sick. I feel very angry about this.

[Hubert Flottz]

83. The GOPers can't lie their way out of this selfish blunder...

They are the ones that didn't have the money for anything the country needed. They have the money to give the big oil companies, airlines and insurance companies hand outs and tax breaks, but they can't fix the roads, or the sewers, or anything else that helps out the people who work and pay taxes and play by the rules. The democrats once gave the middle class the New Deal, but all we've ever gotten out of the GOP, is the Raw Deal.

[lebkuchen]

85. Some MN poster said that Pawlenty was political toast

After reading about his vetoes on project spending for infrastructure such as bridges, I agree. He's finished.

Another RW governor bites the dust.

What I'm concerned about is this, as I think some excellent points were made by the Old Republican Guard. The Bushies are acting like cornered animals these days, what with all the bad karma that has hit them time and again. They're capable of any kind of craziness.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Oldline_Republican_warns_somethings_in_works_0719.html

[Hubert Flottz]

88. Paul Craig Roberts is no dummy.

He knows how dangerous and crazy the neokooks are.

About the governor with the broken bridge, I guess he thinks motorists in his state don't have a right to life. He can't be a good GOPer pol if he don't deliver some "Tax Cuts" for the haves and the have mores. I'm glad he's being nipped in the bud, but I wish it wouldn't have taken such a tragic event to open some of the people in his state's eyes. The GOPer Gawds of politics forget that their limos use the same bridges that they have failed to repair or replace, due to their party's greed and graft.

[hunter]

77. Superpowers don't die, they just crumble away...

OOOooo...

[4_TN_TITANS]

81. Our dams in Tennessee...

Built 80 years ago are so finally deteriorated that they can't put it off any more. This would be such an excellent time for a New New Deal to put Americans back to work rebuilding America.

[Hubert Flottz]

82. "a New New Deal"

That is the best idea I've heard in YEARS! I'll vote for a New New Deal...and To Hell with the New World Order!

[Summer93]

84. Stresses on bridges

I have often wondered as I was waiting in my car on a bridge and feel it vibrating, that was this bridge designed and built to handle heavy trailer trucks 24/7? What year did our country move from shipping freight by train to shipping over the roads? The pavement certainly has required continual resurfacing.

I really like the idea of a New New Deal to put people back to work.That would begin to help people heal from the spasms of continual layoffs we have been going through in this country. People suffer stress when being laid off because they were probably doing a great job but were laid off only to make the company bottom line look good to investors.

[autorank]

92. K*R - Excellent - tax cuts and those who vote for them.

Will they be ashamed. Nah... that would presume that they had a conscience.

Great point, simple, direct.

[Hubert Flottz]

94. Shame is something the GOPers are more above than the law...

They think shame and taxes and laws and jails and wars and hard work are for poor people. Being a bushie means never having to say you're "SORRY" even when everybody else in the world but them, sees what a bunch of sorry M Fers they truly are! No wonder they have to buy love...

[autorank]

110. ...buyin' it in all the wrong places! n/t

[vssmith]

96. The Clinton administration bears no responsibility?

[Hubert Flottz]

103. Not that I know of.

[vssmith]

105. The integrity of the bridge was questioned as early as 1990

[Hubert Flottz]

106. The money would have been there in 1999...

The country is broke now.

Edit...Bush's daddy was president in 90 91 BTW, why didn't he fix it?

[vssmith]

109. Dont misunderstand

I detest Bush far more than Clinton or any President I can remember in my 65 years. There are plenty of reasons to jump in Bush's shit but to blame him or the Republicans for this exclusively is wrong in my opinion.

I guess we may disagree this but I think we agree on far more.