On DU - the Bushler gets blamed for everything - even bridges

[hfojvt]

I am reposting this, since I did ten minutes worth of research to verify what most of DU knows (although I am surprised DU isn't blaming this on Pelosi and Reid - yet)


100% Bush's fault? No, although once upon a time a President did say 'the buck stops here'. The following articles show, briefly, that crumbling bridges and other infrastructure have been a problem for a long time. In general, Republicans have not funded this because they would rather give the money to rich people in the form of tax cuts. I guess Haliburton is not in the construction business or something. Plus, I think there may have been a war that started in 2003 and has taken alot of our attention and money. At least I heard a rumor that this had happened.

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/premium/0286/0286-104781...

"The mayors of four U.S. cities asked Congress to provide more federal money to finance improvements in the nation's infrastructure because cities are not able to keep pace with booming growth and need to upgrade their rapidly aging systems, including highways and sewers. " 25 Jul 2001


*** Notice who cut funding AFTER an increase was requested.

http://www.transact.org/transfer/trans02/05_15.asp

"The passage came after a compromise between the House Transportation & Infrastructure Committee and House appropriators left the Revenue Aligned Budget Authority (RABA) mechanism in place, while calling for its revision in the future. The funding cut in the Bush Administration budget was largely due to RABA. " May 15, 2002


**Republican-leaning organization arguing against increasing taxes to fund bridge repair.

http://www.cltg.org/cltg/clt2006/06-10-17.htm

'But several members said the commission has concluded the state cannot adequately fund its highways, mass transit system, and other transportation infrastructure without a significant infusion of new revenue.

"With declining federal revenues and the cost of the Central Artery the state must find additional revenue sources to maintain and expand its highways and mass transit," '

*** Key phrase there 'with declining federal revenues'

http://www.asce.org/reportcard/2005/page.cfm?id=108

"While long-term Federal transportation programs remain unauthorized since expiring on Sept. 30, 2003, the nation continues to shortchange funding for needed transportation improvements." 9 Mar 2005


Hmmm. The nation (under the presumed leadership of President Bush) continues (note in 2005 CONTINUES) to shortchange funding

funding for what? What's that again?

NEEDED TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENTS

[Bluebear]

1. Well, Bush certainly blamed US while you were compiling your post. nt

[myrna minx]

Ain't that the truth.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1495379

[Demit]

2. Unnecessarily snide remark about whom DU blames for things.

Maybe people on DU aren't blaming Reid & Pelosi b/c they don't think Reid & Pelosi are to blame.

[Bluebear]

5. For real, why is DU being slammed over this?

[hfojvt]

14. wasn't meant as a slam to DU

but a provacative headline. At least the rest of the post was not anti-DU. But yes, I did take a swipe at all of the threads I have seen since January, which have slammed Pelosi and Reid. I can research and dig some of those out too. Even Skinner said he was tired of some of it.

I did see a number of threads with Bush blaming Democrats. All the more reason for my thread, which puts the blame back on Bush.

[eppur_se_muova]

18. Sarcasm smiley is your friend. nt

[tblue37]

25. But your heading and your first sentence both strongly indicate that

you think DU is wrong to suggest Bush and the Republicans deserve any blame for this disaster. But since failure to maintain infrastructure is a consequence of tax policies that favor the rich and drain revenues from public works, and such policies are precisely what Republicans run on and institute, they do deserve blame, especially since they have used their pervasive media control to train Americans to believe that they should not have to pay taxes to support public works.

[LostinVA]

32. Agreed n/t

[hfojvt]

39. maybe, but I was hoping people would read more than the headline

the links are meant to substantiate what you posted.
DU is blaming Bushler
They are mostly right
Here's the proof

[SoFlaJet]

3. Bill Clinton STILL gets blamed for everything

even stuff done under Bush's watch

[Virginia Dare]

4. Bush can't take all of the credit..

the entire Republican Party can spread this blame around for policies going back to the 1980's, which have forced states and local communities to rob Peter to pay Paul. The entire infrastructure in this country is crumbling, meanwhile the Republicans drum up fake crises like vegetative women who need saving and phantom flag burnings that need to be stopped.

[sinkingfeeling]

6. But the GOP did pass a $287 billion Transportation Act 07/29/2005.

It was loaded with nearly 6500 'earmarks' including money for two Alaskan bridges. The bridge to Nowhere and one named for Rep. Don Young.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/29/politics/main712780.shtml

[hfojvt]

22. except that bill was over-whelmingly bi-partisan

"The 91-4 vote in the Senate came hours after the House approved the measure, 412-8."

And Bush had threatened to veto it because of the pork.

[bridgit]

29. that 287bil$ was supposed to play out over what's left of the six year period...

where's that money now? still sitting on a desk somewhere? waiting to be spent for re-bar & concrete? just curious, cause my thought is that cheney-bush-rumsfeld, et al, are not able to just allow a 287bil$ pile of money just sit there...has it gone anywhere recently? or is it still scheduled for infrastructure

[hfojvt]

34. the $287 is promised future spending

Some of it is budgeted for each fiscal year. What actually gets spent and where and when it goes requires much more detail. For a bill passed in 2005 though some of it must have been spent this year and last year. Probably still not enough for the repair needs of our infrastructure, especially after five years of neglect under Bush. The money for future budgets though, hasn't been collected (or borrowed) yet.

[bridgit]

35. that's part of my point, with 287bil$ just sitting there beside a war costing 10-12bil a month...

cheney/bush/rove will not be able to contain themselves future or not; my thought is that it has already been nibbled on, or dis-accounted for elsewhere

[Raine]

7. So????

Chimp just blames it all on the Democrats so don't feel too sorry for him...it all evens out. x(

[hfojvt]

15. I don't have alot of sympathy for Bush, notice how I concluded

"Hmmm. The nation (under the presumed leadership of President Bush) continues (note in 2005 CONTINUES) to shortchange funding

funding for what? What's that again?

NEEDED TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENTS"

Plus, I like your avatar :o

[Johonny]

8. No doubt now is a GREAT TIME

For Bush to pander yet another great idea. Those user fees for driving on the city streets to help pay for infrastructure repair and privatization of public roads. With Bush an ounce of prevention only helps delay the catastrophe that is needed to push through the bad ideas.

[slackmaster]

9. The root cause will turn out to be a long-term unwitting collaboration by a disjoint set of people

Each making errors in judgement, some large and some small; with a net result of diffusion of responsibility.

There may have been problems with the site analysis or design of the bridge 40 years ago, perhaps some building materials that didn't meet their stated specifications. Add some incompetence by elements of the team that built the structure, inadequate inspections with results not properly analyzed. And of course a tendency by politicians to put a happy face on things and sweep problems under the rug in the interests of budgets.

Think of a string of people acting like Mayor Larry Vaughn in Jaws struggling to balance various diverse interests and stay in power.

[ecstatic]

10. Doesn't the content of your post contradict the headline? nt

[Ganja Ninja]

11. and then there's this

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/05/19_khoom_gastax/

St. Paul, Minn. — In an unusual public veto ceremony, Gov. Pawlenty restated his long-held opposition to raising state taxes, and said his veto should come as a surprise to no one.
"I have warned them and told them this would happen. But rather than working on bill that could pass and be accomplished, they want to spend time and resources and energy -- wasting it, I might add -- on this exercise to make a political point when they could be working on a bill that might actually be signed into law," he said.
Pawlenty took particular aim at the bill's proposed dime-a-gallon hike in the current 20 cent gas tax. But he says the bill was also riddled with technical flaws and drafting errors. All told, the transportation package would have provided almost $7.5 billion over the next 10 years to roads, bridges and mass transit.

[hfojvt]

16. From 2005 as well. That's a great addition

See, it's not 100% Bush. Other Republicans need to be blamed too.

[Ganja Ninja]

23. and this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1496332&mesg_id=1496332

[afertal]

12. The NAFTA highway is where we'll spend our infrastructure $

Bush is too busy planning a highway from Canada to Mexico for his business buddies to worry much about a bridge between North and South Minneapolis....

[npincus]

13. NO, B*sh is blamed for diverting critical taxpayer $$ to Iraq

[Warpy]

17. This is a classic combination of "small government, low taxes"

ideology combined with a misallocation of national security funds.

What good is a huge military going to be if they can't navigate our crumbling infrastructure if there is ever a military attack on this country?

Eisenhower saw the building of the interstate system as crucial to national defense. Commerce was only a side benefit.

The system has been allowed to deteriorate under 38 years of conservative rule by both parties.

I blame a flawed ideology that has infected both parties, plus the human inclination that prefers building something new to maintaining something that's already there.

[lumberjack_jeff]

19. Not surprising. Bad stuff happens? "Where's Voldemort?"

It's conditioned response. Every recent tragedy has Bush's fingerprints on it.

Random catastrophes which don't are unusual.

[Connie_Corleone]

20. Bush got bad MOJO.

[Alpharetta]

21. The fall of the USSR

Overextended their military in a long takeover of Afghanistan, expensive and demoralizing for their army.

Corruption.

Poorly developed and decaying infrastructure increased the cost of business. Transportation costs, etc.

Tightly controlled media made rooting out corruption impossible.

[tblue37]

24. I was struck by a comment

on a Huffington Post article about the bridge collapse:

Whether it's the levees at the south of the river or the bridges upstream, GOP budget policies are destroying America's infrastructure.

Republicans are like farmers who milk a cow without feeding it, and then act surprised when it dies.

Another poster quoted Tom Harkin:

"A Republican trickle down economics is giving more oats to the horse as a way to feed the chickens." Senator Tom Harkin (Iowa)

[uppityperson]

26. It started during Reagan yrs, which continue during papabush&babybush yrs

Having family in road construction/maintenance, Reagan yrs were when road/infrastructure monies began being cut and repairs not kept up. I blame the cabal that was in power then, as now. No, I won't blame babybush for it all, but I do hold the group responsible.

[bridgit]

31. that is correct, this has been a longer, more consistent, sustained march on their part...

than dems seem able to comprehend; right or wrong, republicans march forward shoulder to shoulder and there's a lesson there somewhere i'm sure

[GOTV]

27. Hmmm, all articles are from W's term in office n/t

[LostinVA]

28. I don't care if this is "supposed" to be sarcastic -- the header is uncalled for

As much as I dislike the slams on DU to Speaker Pelosi, whom I admire, I question the OP's header.

[hfojvt]

38. actually I did not think it was supposed to be sarcastic

The headline said basically "DU blames Bush for the bridge collapse" and the links below say "and they are mostly right to do so"

The DU blames Pelosi part, should have said 'some' of DU, although there is so much bashing of Democrats in GD that often it feels like all of DU.

It's gonna be even more fun in 2009 when much of DU will be calling for the impeachment of President Clinton, or, optimistically President Edwards. If the troops are not heading home by 2 Feb 2009 (and I don't think they will be) you know some people are gonna 'speak truth to power'.

[Botany]

30. Sounds like bush was blaming the dems.

"We spent a fair amount of time talking about the fact that how disappointed we are that
Congress hasn't sent any spending bills to my desk."

[Deja Q]

33. It is not 100% his fault.

There was undoubtedly a funding problem, though if all the bridges in the country are in a mess, give out the emergency funds NOW to pre-emptively fix them so more people don't have to die.

[slackmaster]

36. Funding alone is rarely enough to solve this kind of problem

The structural deficiency has to be identified. That's often difficult before a failure, since engineering analyses of inspection data rely on pre-existing assumptions about the soundness of the design, stability of the site, quality of construction, etc.

I heard some supposed transportation infrastruction expert on NPR this morning quote an exact figure for the number of deficient bridges in the country, some unbelievably precise figure like "17,342".

He didn't mention if the I35W bridge was among those known to be in need of structural repair.

[devilgrrl]

37. delete

...

[slackmaster]

40. Short list of people I wouldn't want to be right now

- Anyone who was responsible for engineering, designing, building, painting, or inspecting that bridge throughout its history.

- Any politician who ever lobbied or voted against, or vetoed, any transportation funding that MIGHT have been applied to that bridge throughout its history.

- Family member, friend, or coworker of anyone who was injured or killed in the collapse.

[EVDebs]

41. Gov Pawlenty vetoed a transportation funding bill....lovely, eh ? nt

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3422126

[slackmaster]

42. Yes, but that didn't include a specific plan to repair that bridge

So no single person, be it Pawlenty or some contractor who got lazy and painted over some rust, can necessarily be blamed for this.

[EVDebs]

43. Read this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x298533

and this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1494028&mesg_id=1494028

[slackmaster]

44. Yes, I'd already read both of those

At the very least, the bridge should have been closed after the 2005 federal report. The inconvenience would have gotten the attention of more than 140,000 people who used it every day.

[EVDebs]

46. Are the Dead From the Minneapolis Bridge Collapse Victims of Conservative Ideology?

"The tragic collapse this week of a stretch of I-35 spanning the Mississippi river in Minnesota was shocking but should come as no surprise. America's core infrastrucure has been falling apart in very visible ways during the past few years. It's a predictable outcome of the rise of "backlash" conservatism; we've swallowed 30 years of small-government rhetoric, and it's led us to a point in which our infrastructure, once the pride of the developed world, is falling apart around us. We're reaping what we've sown.

Minnesota's Republican governor, Tim Pawlenty, reacted to the disaster by calling a press conference and, with a steely determination worthy of Rudy Guiliani, lying to the American people. Pawlenty insisted that inspections in 2005 and 2006 had found no structural problems with the bridge. But the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reported that the bridge "was rated as 'structurally deficient' two years ago and possibly in need of replacement." The bridge was borderline -- with a 50 sufficiency rating; if a bridge scores less than 50, it needs to be replaced."


http://alternet.org/story/58716/

Maybe if stubborn neocon ideology re tax policy, tax cuts to the wealthiest and corporations offshoring jobs and capital, all the while piling the ensuing tax burden shift on the middle class, just maybe if they'd woke up sooner, this wouldn't have happened.

[slackmaster]

48. Maybe, or maybe they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time

There is no guarantee that this disaster would not have happened under different administrations, or if Pawlenty hadn't vetoed one particular bill or another.

[EVDebs]

49. I'll take that as a "Yes" answer to the article's title

Most infrastructure programs come with lifespan estimates along with Operations&Maintenance budgeting. If overzealous nutjob neocons want to follow Grover Norquist over the cliff,

"Norquist has been noted for his widely quoted quip: "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."<23> This is a facetious restatement of the Americans for Tax Reform mission statement: "The government's power to control one's life derives from its power to tax. We believe that power should be minimized."<24>"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist

I can't believe any on DU would subscribe to that philosophy. Looks like they've drown government in the Mississippi in stead of a bathtub, first Katrina and now this. The entire country is becoming the 'wrong place, wrong time' !

[dorkulon]

45. Halliburton needs to go into bridge repair.

Then there'd be plenty of funding for it.

[lonestarnot]

47. My fucking AC is out and I think he had some'n to do with it! So whacha gona do bout that?