Oops! They've done it again. The Duggars welcome baby # 17.

[Arkansas Granny]

http://www.kfsm.com/Global/story.asp?S=6877154

LITTLE ROCK (AP) - It's a girl - again - for the Duggars.

Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar welcomed their 17th child, and seventh daughter, into the world Thursday.

The Duggars say Jennifer Danielle was born at 10:01 a.m. at Saint Mary's Hospital in Rogers. Jennifer weighed 8 pounds, 8 ounces and arrived five days after Michelle's due date.

Less than 30 minutes after giving birth, the Duggars already were talking of having more.

[Beaverhausen]

1. Oh good- another season on TLC.

assholes. If you love children why not ADOPT!!!

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

2. Freaks!

Let's see how fast we can overpopulate this planet.

I think it's a frickin' game for these people.

[laylah]

3. With all due respect...

:puke: WTF is wrong with these people! It is not like we live in the late 19th/early 20th century before the freaking Industrial Revolution! They need to wrap that rascal or put a helmet on the soldier, for god/dess' sake!

[QC]

79. ...or buy her a tube of Vagiseal! n/t

[JVS]

4. Do they have any grandkids yet?

[shanti]

29. nope

but they mentioned looking forward to them in the last show! that's why they bought such a large property, so all their kids (and families) could have a house there. the oldest son is a clone of his father, so he'll probably do the same. :eyes:

[Dinger]

5. How Old Is That Woman?

Just wondering. Didn't I read a while back that the husband was thinking of running sor Congress, or some political office? Can you imagine?

[shanti]

30. 39 or 40

i believe. i don't agree with all these kids, but they both look and act so young, calm and serene. don't know how they do it :shrug:

[scorpiogirl]

42. They look calm because

they don't actually raise all of their kids. The older kids take care of the younger kids.

[susanna]

116. Thank you! n/t

[LostinVA]

162. Exactly

[NorthernSpy]

82. wikipedia says she was born in 1966...

So that would make her 41.

For most women, fertility drops off sometime in their late 30s.

But not for all... nope, not for all.


:scared:

[TransitJohn]

132. So she's

spent roughly half her life pregnant. Sounds like quite a life she's got going. You think they've figured out how that happens yet?

[Clark2008]

186. Not me.

37 and just had my second child - using two methods of birth control, I might add. And, doc worried so that I'd have more, so hubby got fixed. (Doc worried because I have large children and I'm a small woman - it wrecks me for a bit).

[Viva_La_Revolution]

205. He was actually an elected Rep.

:scared:

no longer, thankfully.

[LWolf]

6. They need a carbon tax per head, instead of a deduction. n/t

[nonconformist]

7. How her uterus has not completely prolapsed is beyond me.

I feel sorry for the older kids, who are basically having to raise their siblings instead of being kids themselves and getting real quality time with their parents.

[Dinger]

8. Thats For Damn Sure (nt)

[Solly Mack]

16. I must admit - had the same thought

(3rd degree prolapse)

[Kadie]

9. God Does Not Want 16 Kids (Classic Mark Morford)

I just came across the article again a couple of days ago, I guess this is why is was pulled out of the archives.

God Does Not Want 16 Kids
Arkansas mom gives birth to a whole freakin' baseball team. How deeply should you cringe?
By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist

Wednesday, October 19, 2005


Who are you to judge? Who are you to say that the more than slightly creepy 39-year-old woman from Arkansas who just gave birth to her 16th child yes that's right 16 kids and try not to cringe in phantom vaginal pain when you say it, who are you to say Michelle Duggar is not more than a little unhinged and sad and lost?

And furthermore, who are you to suggest that her equally troubling husband -- whose name is, of course, Jim Bob and he's hankerin' to be a Republican senator and try not to wince in sociopolitical pain when you say that -- isn't more than a little numb to the real world, and that bringing 16 hungry mewling attention-deprived kids (and she wants more! Yay!) into this exhausted world zips right by "touching" and races right past "disturbing" and lurches its way, heaving and gasping and sweating from the karmic armpits, straight into "Oh my God, what the hell is wrong with you people?"

more...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2005/10/19/notes101905.DTL&hw=duggar+morford&sn=001&sc=1000

[SoCalDem]

10. What HMO do THEY have?

I cannot imagine that their insurance company is very happy to have them as customers:)

[TahitiNut]

62. Probably one where nobody knows what a vasectomy is.

:shrug:

... or a condom.

[Eurobabe]

154. Have More Offspring kind. n/t

[Craftsman]

178. As I understand it they are self insured.

He sales realestate and has numerous investment properties.

[HughBeaumont]

11. It begs the classic success-stories parody:

[SoCalDem]

14. Send in the Clones :)

:)

[HughBeaumont]

20. New word for people like these:

Fundamentalpatients.

What's up with the Laura Ingalls Wilder zombies?

[1monster]

33. For the record, Laura Ingalls Wilder only had two children, Rose and Jack.

While still just a few months old, Jack suffered a convulsion. He died before the doctor got to the house.

[dflprincess]

100. I think the reference was to how those poor girls are dressed

n/t

[susanna]

124. ...and Laura Ingalls Wilder has WHAT to do with that? n/t

LIW is the ultimate, to me, of self-sufficient, no-nonsense adaptation. I admire her courage and tenacity at every stage of her life. I don't wear a sunbonnet or a calico dress, for the record.

So these new-fangled fundie girls wear her generation's clothes? Whatever. They share NOTHING of her spirit, of that I feel pretty confident.

Wow. This is an interesting thread.

[LostinVA]

165. I believe the poster is talking about their clothing and hair

Not Mrs. Wilder.

[susanna]

204. See my response to the person originally using the LIW reference.

I completely missed his intent. It appears I'm not the only one. And thanks to you for stepping up and explaining what I had already missed.

Peace.

[susanna]

122. Thank you.

I left out Jack in my message, and probably should not have. I addressed the one child she did have, simply because I'm absolutely astounded that people see LIW as a "have as many kids as you can" prototype. It's kinda weird to me.

[susanna]

120. Well, to be fair...

...and I'm a Laura Ingalls Wilder fan...

LIW only had one child that lived to adulthood, Rose, who rose to prominence as an international journalist. She obviously took after her mother, who wrote multiple books about her experiences as a pioneer.

I just want to set THAT record straight; LIW had ONE child. Not fifteen. Sorry, HughBeaumont, that was just a wrong attribution I had to say something about.

on edit: lots

[HughBeaumont]

157. Gaaaaaa . . . I'm referring to the FASHION on the daughters, not the PERSON of the mother!

I don't get how people could have misinterpreted this.

Laura Ingalls Wilder refers to their 19th century curtain-fabric dress fashion, which meant I only have the TV show to go on. In no way, shape or form was that meant to rip on the person of the famous author.

Zombies refers to the monotone speech, look and similarity the girls seem to share; and I'm only referring to the girls, not the mother. That lady has enough problems in life being a human progeny factory, whether she wants to admit it or not. That kind of begs the question - which of the girls will be the first to break from the home-schoolin' nightmare and see what the real world is actually like? And how will they deal with it?

[LostinVA]

166. I knew what you meant

[HughBeaumont]

176. Well of course YOU did.

One needs a paper-plate neo-Minnie Pearl hat to understand!

:headbang: :rofl:

[susanna]

203. Fine.

Suffice it to say, I'm a Laura Ingalls Wilder fan. I'll call out something I see as fishy. Sorry if it offends you, or that I didn't understand what you were getting at.

Peace.

[LostinVA]

164. This always reminds me of photos of the FLDS women in Colorado City

[Beaverhausen]

18. Oh my god!

:rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. It freaks me out that they all dress alike

And those old fashioned dresses the girls wear!! Yuck

[jgraz]

34. I KNEW that picture looked familiar!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

37. ROFLMAO!!!!!!!! I love the poster!!!!!! BTW..there are Christian fashion sites for modest

clothing. It's like being sucked into a time warp.

[blondeatlast]

39. They kind of defeat the anti-cloning argument. They may have come about naturally,

but yeegads--that similarity is ultra disturbing. Yech.

[HughBeaumont]

158. That whole similar hair/facial features/outfit thing reminds me of something else:

[blondeatlast]

160. Eegads. That's disturbing.

:rofl:

[scorpiogirl]

44. OMG! That poster is hilarious!

:rofl:

[Elidor]

12. They should colonize Mars

I'll chip in for the rocket.

[bicentennial_baby]

13. ....

[HughBeaumont]

17. GMTA!!

OK, we get it, Jim. You've had sex 17 times.

[bicentennial_baby]

25. Ha!

:rofl:

:hi:

[scorpiogirl]

45. That explains why so many kids. I never thought of that! n/t

[bleedingheart]

15. I hope the baby is healthy...as crazy as I think the parents are...

the child deserves at least good health...

as for Michelle...I wonder if she has to wear a diaper because incontinence is one of the ugliest side effects of excessive pregnancies....I had a friend who would sneeze and piss herself....some gift motherhood can be...

from what I hear the children are raising themselves...so one of the older children just got another charge...

my aunt had a lot of kids (before the pill..)...and my cousins were miserable...it was nothing but work from morning to night...and the eldest normally was in charge of the youngest...their childhoods were spent not in having fun but in doing chores to keep the household of almost 10 running smoothly...

[napi21]

67. I don't know about all BIG families, but I had a neighbor who had 13

children. Two of them were about the same ages as my two boys. The older kids didn't seem to mind helping with the younger ones, and as they grew older, they all worked in their dad's produce store. They ALL turned out to be happy healthy adults.

I know I used to ask the Mother how in the world she could handle all those kids! I would be yelling at mine when I finally got sick of hearing them argue, but Pat never raised her voice! She said it's really not a problem. You just ignore it!

[DS1]

19. will someone cut that selfish motherfucker's balls off?

as if we needed more people

:eyes:

[HughBeaumont]

24. Snowflake # 18 will be created this week.

Seems ol' Jim Bob doesn't even wait for the cord to be cut . . .

[MADem]

21. As Groucho (never) said

I like a good cigar, but ya gotta take it out every once in a while!!!"

Thank you, I'll be here all week...try the chicken piccata!!

[tammywammy]

22. Well, good for them

I hope their baby is happy and healthy.

If this is what they want to do, then more power to them.

[Octafish]

65. Amen.

What we have too much of are eugenicist wannabes.

Idet: Ytppo.

[tammywammy]

70. I mean I don't want to have a bunch of kids

but, if they do, more power to them. :shrug:

I'm pro-choice. And it seems like they are able to support that big of a family financially.

[Feron]

91. I agree. n/t

[Craftsman]

180. Agreed.

[shimmergal]

150. No, I don't entirely agree....

OF COURSE I hope the baby is happy and healthy. But IMO having that many children is downright immoral. Whhy don't we call it that? The fundamentalists don't hesitate to call non-marital sex or homosexuality immoral, which is a direct slap at probably most of the adult population. Why are we so afraid to bring our own values to bear on situations like this?

[Catherine Vincent]

23. "the Duggars already were talking of having more,"

They're pushing it way past the limit, imo.

[MrMickeysMom]

86. and- 5, 6, 7, 8...

:o ... "Eeeeevery sperm is sacred..."

[AtomicKitten]

26. "That's a vagina, lady, not a clown car." (nt)

[MazeRat7]

36. Now thats funny.!!!! -nt

[HeeBGBz]

74. That's deserving of a DUzy, fer shure.

[Codeine]

192. LOL! That's an old favorite of mine.

[bicentennial_baby]

27. His name is Jim Bob....

x(

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. They are insane

I watched several episodes of their show. Too creepy for words.

[jgraz]

32. When does it stop being reproduction and become littering?

And they named them all with the letter J. How cute.

Next kids: Junk, JismJar and JustCuzWeWereBored

[orleans]

146. Junk, JismJar and JustCuzWeWereBored--that's hysterical! n/t

[shanti]

35. and alll homeschooled

by moms :eyes:

[Greylyn58]

40. When does she have time

to homeschool.

I mean good-googley-moogley!!

[ingac70]

43. She doesn't....

That responsibilty falls on the older children. At least that is what Mrs. Duggar said in an interview when she had #16.

[Katherine Brengle]

175. Exactly. That's my biggest problem with these people - their children

are raising their children. Not "helping out" but doing work from dawn to dusk. And from what I've read, that work is done primarily by their female children.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maru Kitteh]

107. Exactly how is that relevant? What a small-minded comment that was.

Do you have a problem with breasts utilized for their intended purpose? Believe it or not, breasts are not, I repeat NOT ornamental appendages whose sole function is aesthetic appeal for men.

[enki23]

117. jersey cows have annoyingly small teats

(says someone who had to milk one by hand at least one time too many)

they aren't known for their production. they're known for their high percentage of milkfat.

[marions ghost]

41. you know when you have too many rats in a cage

and they start gnawing on each other....

How egotistical can you get is my first reaction. But then the parents are obviously deranged and so should be forgiven on grounds of insanity. This is one of the odder forms of addiction (is it named? There are some weird miasms out there...procreation addiction?)

We are seeing many strange responses in the End Times....

[blondeatlast]

46. C'mon, DU--you KNOW you want to name the next one! If ever a thread were meant for the DUzies...!

In honor of Mrs. Duggar, I hereby bequeath the name Job to the next spawn.

Any other suggestions?!They're pushing the envelope already (Jinger?!) so they need all the help they can get. Already used names are: Jennifer; Joshua, 19; John David, 17; Janna, 17; Jill, 16; Jessa, 14; Jinger, 13; Joseph, 12; Josiah, 11; Joy-Anna, 9; Jedidiah, 8; Jeremiah, 8; Jason 7; James 6; Justin, 4; Jackson, 3; Johannah, almost 2.

[smokey nj]

58. Justfuckingkillmenow.

It's a little long, but Dugger's a fairly short name, so I think it'll work.

[TahitiNut]

60. Jesus Notagain? Jerkoff Instead?

:silly:

[beam me up scottie]

133. "Jesus Notagain" !

:spray: :rofl:

[Bluebear]

145. "Jesus Notagain?"

Tears here . . .

:rofl:

[mountainvue]

47. Why? n/t

[marions ghost]

50. Why not?

seems to be the answer....

(I'm seeing scenes from "Idiocracy")

[NashVegas]

48. I'm All For Reproductive Freedom

If the Duggars wish to keep popping them out, so be it.

They are the ones who will suffer the consequences - and whatever benefits come from it.

[blondeatlast]

53. If they didn't have a TV series, I'd agree with you for the most part.

But I think they've consented to be public figures just as much as Paris Hilton has.

[NashVegas]

56. I Don't Mean the Publicity as Consequence

Although some may view it so.

I was thinking more of the incontinence Mamma Duggar is in for, and whatever may come when the blinders fall off ...

[marions ghost]

59. yep

We can talk about what's going on with all the J Duggers into infinity. Kind of like the various forms of Siamese twins and other famous multiples.

[Ron Green]

71. I'm not for this kind of reproductive freedom.

Consequences are for everybody, not just this fundie family.

[OnionPatch]

77. Hear Hear!

Overpopulation is killing the planet.

[Maru Kitteh]

108. So what's your solution? Forced abortion? Forced sterilization?

Sounds a little on the NAZI side don'tcha think?

[Truthiness Inspector]

118. I agree

It's always "other" people who are part of the overpopulation problem, not the person who says it or his/her friends and family. They are quality population. :eyes:

[Ron Green]

135. I dunno, maybe tax incentives, education, shame ...

whatever gets people out of the "I've got mine and screw you" mindset and into the "We're all in this together" attitude.

"Force" and "Nazis" isn't what I have in mind.

[orleans]

147. how about forced self-restraint? or forced social conscience? are

the tax breaks so good you just gotta have another?

[marions ghost]

193. how about an attempt at basic birth control?

that's a SUGGESTION--nobody's forcing anybody to do anything...

You ought to be able to criticize the behavior of others without triggering primitive fears of 'force.'

ADVOCATING reproductive responsibility is OK. It's just an argument -- & hopefully others might think before they have a raft of children.

NOBODY here is calling for legal restrictions (like the hypocritical Fundies do... towards pro-choice prople).

BIG difference.

[LanternWaste]

198. It's a tough call, isn't it?

It's a tough call, isn't it? If we adhere to the absolute of reproductive freedom, we have to defend both ends of the spectrum.

I realize that one can easily belittle this family for irresponsibility to the planet, but that would be another argument altogether.

However, if we confine our argument to reproductive freedom alone, I think we're forced to defend their choice as much as we may disagree with it.

And if we do indeed belittle them, make jokes about them, or denigrate their choice, we are confined by moral and intellectual consistency to defend jokes and wisecracks made at anyone for exercising their reproductive freedoms, regardless of what that choice is.

[Turbineguy]

49. Sheesh People!

It's only one family in the whole country.

[blondeatlast]

54. And they have a TV series so I consider it okay to comment on it. nt

[marions ghost]

55. Praise the Lord

& pass the condoms...

[Uncle Joe]

51. By my calculations, this means

the woman has been pregnant for approximately 12.75 years.:wow:

[SammyWinstonJack]

52. Self-serving and self absorbed. nt

[TygrBright]

57. "Jinger?!?" One of their kids is named "Jinger?" Bet he gets called "Jinger the humdinger"...

...and lots worse. Oughta be illegal to give kids names like that.

Gee. Just what we need. LOTS MORE of this DNA in subsequent generations.

:eyes:

ironically,
Bright

[JSK]

69. Jinger is a girl

as in "Ginger"

[smokey nj]

112. Poor kid has to go through life in with an intentionally misspelled name.

[TygrBright]

113. But then.... wouldn't the CORRECT misspelling be...

"Jinjer??"

...oh, never mind...

defeatedly,
Bright

[devilgrrl]

61. Who's paying for these children?

??????

[tammywammy]

63. I think the family is

They're both licensed real-estate agents and he owns some commercial property.

http://www.duggarfamily.com/aboutus.html

[devilgrrl]

89. If that's the case, I have no business butting into theirs...

no matter how weird I think they are.

[tammywammy]

90. That's pretty much what I think

I mean I'm pro-choice, which means I support both women that want abortions and women that don't. :shrug: Though I'd never want this many children it does seem that this family is able to support that many and they're happy. :shrug:

[Matariki]

152. Irresponsibility and selfishness is okay so long as it can be *paid* for?

There's more to this than 'how do they pay for all those kids'.

And disapproving their stupidity is not 'butting in' anyway.

[devilgrrl]

173. Oh, you want to start a fist-fight huh?

I have friends who are from families of 15 and 13. So what your saying is that their parents were "Irresponsible and Selfish"?

Ever hear of Catholicism?

Get off your high-horse JERK! :nuke:

[Ron Green]

184. Yeah, I'll say it. People who have that many kids since the middle of the 20th Century are

IRRESPONSIBLE. It's not about whether or not you can pay for it, it's about understanding and agreeing that the current population growth cannot be supported by this planet, much less by our social institutions.

SHAME on people who generate this many new humans. Catholics ought to be able to relate to shame.

[baby_mouse]

209. Thank you!

A bit of sanity.

[jmowreader]

131. It's not like they pay a hell of a lot of tax either

Line 42 of IRS Form 1040: Multiply $3300 by the total exemptions claimed on Line 6d.

Nineteen exemptions at $3300 per exemption comes to $62,700...which should basically zeroize their taxable income.

[Raine]

73. TLC network nt

[Breeze54]

64. The kids who wear drapes family!! Egads!!!

narcissism

Mental disorder characterized by extreme self-absorption, an exaggerated
sense of self-importance, and a need for attention and admiration from others.

They're on the Population Zero's hit list! :P

http://www.populationconnection.org/ (Formerly called Population Zero)

[MissB]

66. Since the babies now slide right out, they can easily have more.

No effort needed.

Sheesh. Does Jim Bob need a flashlight when looking for the appropriate place to start reproduction?

[LibDemAlways]

68. What kind of individual attention are any of those

kids ever going to get? The older ones have to take care of the younger ones, and if a kid is sick or has a problem that needs tending to, who is going to take the time and expend the energy to deal with it? And what kind of an education are those kids getting? Homeschooled by who? Surely not Mrs. Baby Factory.

I feel sorry for the kids. It isn't their fault they were born into a freak show.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

75. In the old days, families like that were the Catholic Church's best source of

nuns.

I'm not making this up.

The older girls (never the boys) would grow up taking care of babies as soon as soon as they were old enough to hold them, and by the time they were 18, they would be bound and determined that motherhood-gone-wild would never happen to them.

[blondie58]

172. yep- they've already raised their kids

my sister in law is the third eldest of a family of fourteen kids, and she doesn't want kids. She would have to stay home from school if one of her younger siblings was sick. Strangely enough, her family seems relatively sane.

Now, as for myself, I would have to be committed. I can't imagine the stress of having so many children around to deal with 24/7. It takes a special woman.

[LostInAnomie]

72. Jeez! This guy needs an emergency lesson in pulling out.

C'mon, you two. At least give your loins a chance to quit smoking before you fire 'em back up.

[mentalsolstice]

183. I don't think he has to "pull" very hard at this point

Prolly takes more effort to keep it in...kinda like throwing a hot dog down a hall.

[Raine]

76. They're creepy

I've seen them on TLC and they seemed other worldly calm, talk in monotones etc. They have that huge family but it doesn't cost them much cause of their show on TLC...donations paid for the home they built and they even get free trips to Disneyland etc. I guess just the 'freakish' bizareness of someone breeding 17 kids is enough to get all kinds of freebies. x(

[GodHelpUsAll2]

81. Someone

please tell me what makes these people instant freaks for having a boat load of kids? I will admit I know nothing of his family and didn't even know they existed until reading this thread but the comments on this thread are sickening. Tell me who it is that decides what the "child limit" in the UNITED STATES is? YOU? It wasn't to long ago when a family like this were more of the norm than the "freak show" so many are willing label them. My Grandmother was on of 13 kids. All this talk of how these children will suffer because heaven forbid they learn a little responsibility by being a PART of the family unit and pulling a little of the weight instead of just the spoiled center of attention. And people wonder why society has gone to hell in a hand basket.

Like I said before, I don't know a thing about these people but before I decide it's my right and duty to get on my self righteous high horse and talk smack about how they have "gone over the alotted limit" of children, I may just want to think of how I would feel if I started being told that I have NOT produced my alloted amount of children. The soap box can get pretty high, some may want to think twice before climbing up on it.

[NorthernSpy]

83. 17-kid families have NEVER been the norm...

... not here, not anywhere.


Just sayin'...

[GodHelpUsAll2]

84. So

I am to assume you have been everywhere and can document this as fact right?

Take that same statement and apply a few different words to it then ask yourself how big of a hypocrite can one be?

Present time:
Openly gay people who think they should be allowed to marry have never been the norm here, not anywhere. Just sayin'.....

Step back 40 years or so:
Interracial marriage has never been the norm here, not anywhere. Just sayin'.....

A little further back:
Women who are more than servants to their husbands, mothers to thier babies, and mere domestic servants have never been the norm here, not anywhere. Just sayin'.....

Do I need to continue?

[NorthernSpy]

97. "It wasn't to long ago when a family like this were more of the norm than the "freak show"...

... so many are willing to label them".


You said that, and that's why I remarked that 17-kid families have never been the norm.

Yeah, I could look up the stats, but why should I bother? Even in countries with the highest birthrates and little contraceptive use today, you certainly don't see many families that large.

Your claim was that at one time, a family like the Duggars would have been "more of the norm", and I merely contradicted you on that point. That's all. Which is why your subsequent torrent of shrill ranting is irrelevant to what I actually said.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

101. LOL

Hit a nerve eh?

[LeftyMom]

134. In societies where large families are the norm and contraception is uncommon

Breastfeeding serves to space conception, and taboos about early resumption of coitus may also occur. Only in societies where breastmilk substitutes are not the norm are births at less than a year and a half interval at a minimum at all common. In areas where scarcity is a concern, longer taboos and breastfeeding may shift the spacing between births to four or five years.

[marions ghost]

88. How can the children learn "responsibility"

when their parents are so irresponsible?

Have you ever gone to China...or Mexico City...or Calcutta? That's the future.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

94. Define

irresponsible. I define it as a parent who does not feed their kids. A parent who does not discipline their kids. A parent who does not educate their kids. A parent who does not teach their kids compassion, how to love or how to become a productive member of society. Do you know these people are not doing all of these things?

[NorthernSpy]

98. having to depend on the kindness of strangers...

... is a scary position to be in, no matter how you slice it.

Sorry. I'm just not a big fan of providentialism.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

99. ok

I'll give you that. So you are telling me that you for a fact that these people live solely on the donations of others and you can provide or point me to the informations that backs up this claim?

[Raine]

138. Watch them on TLC

when they repeat (and TLC repeats them regularly) the episodes involving the building of their gigantic home and the furnishing etc. of it.

[shanti]

199. omg

wasn't that something?? :wow:

[marions ghost]

102. Irresponsible

is NOT considering that the WORLD (never mind society) just doesn't need your excess children. Check out this story about how kids live in the slums of Rio:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2247608.stm

Like I said, GO to Mexico City, Bangladesh, Sierra Leone, Pakistan, Beijing. Then get back to me.

Oh yeah and it wouldn't hurt to rent the movie Idiocracy either. Watch that followed by one of the documentaries about how excess children are routinely sold into slavery around the world.

Maybe these Dugger kids will have the basics (UNlike so many children) but they will never have a relationship with their parents. I was one of 5 and even that was too many for 2 parents. And these kids (growing up in the TV spotlight and all that) aren't really living the quaint Little House on the Prairie dream either. They're living a parental addiction that's way out of synch with the needs of the whole. It's twisted, narcissist, piggy. It's an odd kind of insulation from the world IMO.

But somehow I don't think you see that.:shrug:

[GodHelpUsAll2]

106. You are correct

I don't see it the same as you. They are not in the slums of Rio, Bangladesh, Sierra Leone, Pakistan or Beijing. They are in Arkansas. And where I am certain it happens here I don't believe selling kids into slavery is as ultra common an occurrence on the street corners of the US as it is in other places around the world. And because your parents were not able to do anything but just provide the basics for their and kids and couldn't manage to have relationships with them because 5 was too much for 2 parents (your words not mine) does not mean that there are not people out there capable of doing just that. There are people in this country that are not capable of taking care of 1.

Like I stated before, I didn't even know these people existed before this thread. For all I know they could be popping out kids so they can start their own cult. What bothers me is because they have 17 kids people jump up on their high and mighty horses and start looking down their noses and bashing for no other reason than having 17 kids is not something they would do. You have no idea who these people really are and you have no clue as to what kind of relationship any of these kids has with either of the parents yet you get up on a soap box and preach the holier than thou BS about how because in your opinion your parents couldn't handle the kids they had then well it's just impossible for anyone else to be able to do it, let alone with 3 times that many. News Flash, there ARE people in this world who are far more capable in certain situations that you are. And I am sure there are certain situations you are more capable than others. But because you don't personally agree with someone else's choices does not give you the authority to speak as an expert on what can and can not be done by anyone based on your personal opinion.

I am the mother of a teenage gay son. When introducing him and his friend when we are out and about what kinds of reactions do you think I get? The standard gasps and then followed by "Oh My God You allow that". Then the whispers behind my back about what a freak I am because I just let that kind of behavior go on and obviously I can't handle being a parent because I am such a miserable failure. After all, I have a son who turned out gay. I must have done something terribly wrong right? I can not and will not join a lynching just because myself or a group of people seem to think we know what is best for others and their family. If there was some sort of irrefutable proof these people have something sinister going on other than just startling to the masses that would be different. But until that news comes out I will choose to treat others with the same courtesy I would hope they would treat me with when discovering something about me that does not fit their particular mold of "normal".

[marions ghost]

171. Read posts

#139 and #163 for the answer.

Also consider that individual freedoms, such as those you want for your gay son, become secondary in a society where crowd control and food allotment takes priority. The life of individuals becomes cheaper and cheaper. It's not good to just let the ship we're all on hit the pier in the name of "personal freedom."

And FYI--my parents did a fantastic job. But it took a toll on them and there were still too many kids. Many of us who were raised in litters of 5-6 who feel the same as I. It's not unusual. You can be loved and taken care of, and still feel the emptiness of never really knowing your parents.

[piesRsquare]

148. Do some reading on child development

and, more importantly (and most especially), the absolute necessity of establishing the one-to-one "bond" or "connection" with one's child(ren) with regards to establishment of sense of self, healthy psycho-social relations, and personal identity (among other things).

In modern American society (in particular), it is not possible for two parents to birth and raise 17 children that are mentally and psychologically healthy in terms of sense of self and interpersonal relationships. The way that the Duggars have been "raising" their children has virtually guaranteed that all 17 of them will not be psychologically healthy adults. Functioning/productive members of society is one thing, but a person's life is much more than being a "productive member of society".

I believe it is completely fair to be disgusted with Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar, for I believe that, as is with parents who do not feed, discipline, or educate their kids, it is highly irresponsible to, by virtue of non-stop breeding, deprive one's children of appropriate psychological development and mental health.

Neither one of these children has any sense of personal identity. That is a tragedy. Emotional and psychological abuse.

[Raine]

93. My grandmother had eight children

one of which was my father but it was a different world then. There were plenty of resources and all those children were needed for the very survival of the family. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would like to have a large family but can't afford it cause they would have to work hard and support them themselves. The Duggars are in a league all their own they selfishly populate the world and because of the "strangeness"of a family with 17 children (born not adopted) get donations to live off of while using everyone's resources. I think that is irresponsible in today's world.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

95. And that is

your choice to think that. Just as it is my choice to think it is very irresponsible for the rest of us to continue to drive our polluting cars because we justify in our heads how we "need" them and can't get along with out them. Funny how people managed for years and years without cars, cell phones, computers, Ipods etc. And the, 'It's a different world now" doesn't cut it. We have the world we have made for ourselves. Not the one we NEED.

[RaleighNCDUer]

182. When your grandmother was a kid there were 1.5 billion people

in the world.

Today, that's 6+ billion.

The world can't take it anymore. We are breeding ourselves into extinction.

[last_texas_dem]

197. I agree with your post

Especially considering the number of recent threads in which numerous posters on DU persistently claimed to be "pro-choice on all things sexual" it's a bit odd to see all of the vitriol directed at these parents' "choice." If the family were guilty of committing a greater offense beyond being "creepy" perhaps I'd understand, but I'm just not feeling the outrage here.

[NorthernSpy]

78. I hope Jesus can pay their college tuition...

... 'cause there is NO way Ma and Pa Duggar could.


:wow:

[LibDemAlways]

85. Most of those kids will end up cashiering at

Wal-Mart. They'll be lucky if they ever earn a high school equivalency certificate.

[Blue_In_AK]

80. Are these the people we were watching on TLC

a few nights ago getting the big new house built for them? I commented to my husband then that these have to be some of the most irresponsible and selfish people on the planet. It's not like they're living out on a farm in the pioneer days and need all those kids to work the fields. And what's with having a house built for them -- who's paying for that??

[Berry Cool]

87. Believe it or not, Mark Lindsay, the singer who was once part of Paul Revere & the Raiders

was the middle of 18 children.

His family even beat THIS one.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

92. Wow

What irresponsible people! However did one of their children do anything other than be a street urchin,a walmart cashier or just a completely useless non productive member of society?

Most will have a reaction of shock at the thought of having 17 kids. I know I certainly would not even entertain the idea but to condemn them as freaks of nature and get all up in arms because they have gone over the "alloted" amount of children is sickening. Now, they may very well have some bizarre beliefs to me or you or most of the population but the general judgmental bandwagon lynch mentality that is occurring in this thread just makes me shake my head and realize why this country has gotten so far off track!

[Marrah_G]

170. I grew up with a girl who had 17 siblings

Originally the family had 19 kids but a twin died. They all seemed pretty normal, not overly religious, there were just alot of them. I remember she had nieces and nephews older then she was.

My brother has 6 kids and he completely supports his family. They aren't fundies or RWers. They knew before they got married that they wanted a large family because his wife has (i think) 8 siblings. She loved it and wanted something similar.They are happy and very well adjusted kids. I'm not sure they are done yet.

[ironflange]

96. Here's a view of their kitchen

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

[uppityperson]

103. BREAKING NEWS!! Duggars NOT pregnant!!!

[JI7]

104. the other older kids take care of the younger ones

one reason i would never have so many kids is because it doesn't seem fair to the older kids. we aren't talking about just babysitting once in a while. it's an everyday thing from the time they get up.

but i'm not sure it would make much difference because the older kids don't seem to have much freedom anyways. they are homeschooled and are always together.

[beam me up scottie]

109. The older girls don't even attend classes from mom-they have to do all the cooking.

They believe the girls won't need educations anyway since they're just going to be incubators for Jesus.

Oh, and they're not pro-choice.

Their website says it's our duty to procreate and if we practice birth control we're going against God's will.

[JI7]

126. have you seen the food they eat ?

i remember one TLC episode with Tater Tot Casserole .

i do want to see what happens with the kids as they get older.

[beam me up scottie]

128. Yeah, or should I say, Yech!

They posted the recipes on their website.

As for what happens to them, I hope the girls rebel and get the hell out of there before they're sold off into slavery encouraged to marry at 18 and start popping out kids.

[MiserableFailure]

105. I just think this is unfair to the kids

Yeah, they have the right to have as many kids as they want. This is the United States after all, and not China. But having this many kids just ensures that each child won't get the attention they deserve. I have 3 kids bunched closely together in age and I try to spend as much time with them as I can as a group, but I also try to make sure that I get some one on one time with each. It is impossible to do that with 17 kids.

[Forkboy]

110. Kids are coming outta there faster than a Chuckie Cheese at closing time.

[Bluebear]

143. ...

STOP!!!!!

:rofl:

[LostinVA]

167. hahahahhahahhahaha

[Truthiness Inspector]

111. So what?

Cripes. It's scary how many people here feel like they have any place telling others what they should do with their own private lives.

If this family is happy, healthy, and able to provide, what is the problem?

On edit: The vagina jokes are more misogynistic than anything else I've read here but those jokes are applauded, even by women possibly.

[beam me up scottie]

114. They feel they're qualified to tell me what I should do with my uterus.

And the parents beliefs are far more misogynistic than anything you'll find on this site.

[Truthiness Inspector]

115. I don't get it

They are living their beliefs, and their own lives.

Who are they hurting? All I see in the OP and many responding posts are jokes about how many children she has.

[beam me up scottie]

119. Why do you think he ran for office?

Just to get away from the kids?

He is just like all the other christian conservatives, they believe they have the right to force women to have kids.

They condemn people like me for using birth control on their website, so, sorry, they're fair game as far as I'm concerned.

And again, the older girls are NOT getting an education, unless, of course, you count learning how to make Tater Tot Casserole for nineteen and how to clean up after them.





edit punc

[Truthiness Inspector]

125. Ok

I don't know all of the background apparently. The family's views may be unpopular but they are living what they preach, and that is more than can be said for many. I still don't like the comments here and I still think the vagina jokes were beyond tasteless, all made for the sake of condemning judgmental people.

[beam me up scottie]

127. Sure, some of the comments go too far, but that's DU.

Almost all of us have had our snarky moments.

Alert on the ones that are especially offensive (as I am) and the mods will take care of them.

When you put your family on display (not to mention telling other families that they are going against god's will by not having 17 kids), you open yourself up to public scrutiny.

[Elspeth]

121. I think the problem is that they have chosen to make themselves public examples

and take money and donations.

If you or I had 17 kids, we would have to support them ourselves.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

123. Just a little quick math

then I am off to bed. For all of you who have veins popping in your forehead over the overpopulating, society doesn't need their excess kids and using up valuable resources. Let's do a little numbers game.

2 Parents + 17 kids = 19 people total. 19 people using water, gas, electricity etc. Oh good God that is just irresponsible and a drain on society! They are using up my resources! They are INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Parent's who have 2-3 kids are far more responsible and will not over populate and will not be a drain on the resources because they are far more considerate than those nut bags with 17 kids.

So....if the average family consists of 2 parents + 2 kids let's see how that comes out.

in order to get 17 kids using the stats of a "normal" family it would look like this.

2 parents + 2 Kids 4 people
2 parents + 2 Kids 4 people
2 parents + 2 Kids 4 people
2 parents + 2 Kids 4 people
2 parents + 2 Kids 4 people
2 parents + 2 Kids 4 people
2 parents + 2 Kids 4 people
2 parents + 2 Kids 4 people

32 people total. You would need 16 parents to get 17 kids. 16 Houses, 16 cars, 16 electric bills etc.

vs

2 parents + 17 kids = 19 people 1 house, 2-3 cars, 1 electric bill etc.

WOW! The "Normal" family out numbers the "Insane Irresponsible" family by almost half! And they use quite a bit more than the insane family. You might want to rethink the drain on the resources argument.

Good Night

[LeftyMom]

136. Well, unless we can all clone ourselves some siblings and make them reproduce,

that argument really doesn't make any sense. The idea isn't to have smaller families breed up to a very high number of children, it's to stick with smaller socially responsible family sizes when feasible.

If the goal were 17 kids and the only factor were economies of scale a large family unit would make sense. But the goal isn't to reproduce in litters.

Anyhow, childless couples and single adults tend to have a bad habit of getting houses and cars simply because they need them, so putting a crib in the room down the hall and a child seat in the back doesn't really make those families much less efficient, provided they don't have so many kids that they have to buy a ginormous vehicle or a house that looks like an apartment building with an attached garage.

[shimmergal]

151. When the Xian fundamentalists stop

telling people what we should do with our own private lives, then maybe we should stop giving our opinions about how these kooky people live. But until then, we have every right to think it's irresponsible, and to say so. I wish more people would say so, in public.

As for vagina jokes, I view them more as the product of misinformation. I've HAD a severely prolapsed uterus, still have related problems, but I only gave birth to two children. When I was in the hospital, the nurses told me this was a very common problem, associated with aging and childbirth, but there's no one-to-one correlation with the number of pregnancies. The jury's still out on whether elective Caesareans might lessen the likelihood of this condition developing in later life. There are some OB-GYNs who believe it does, but Caesareans have such a bad rep in both the general press and women's publications, that they hesitate to speak out.

[sanskritwarrior]

129. Wow what an awesome story

regardless of the family's personal beliefs they believe they are living the American Dream......How awesome for them.....

shame on anyone that wants to tell them what to do with their bodies.........been kinda freeperish around here lately

[JI7]

130. THEY are the ones who want to LEGISLATE what I can do with my body

We are just giving our personal opinions but none are calling for a law to ban them from having more kids.

[Raine]

139. They believe it is their right

to have as many children as they can but they are on the side that would force others to bare children that they don't want to have. The Duggars are hypocrites and that is where the shame is.

[marions ghost]

163. EXCELLENT point !

Cuts to the heart of it.

These same people are advocating limiting the reproductive rights of others --while the rest of society is expected to foot the bill (& absorb) their excesses.

They're not exactly keeping out of our reproductive business --so why shouldn't we say something about theirs?

Not everybody wants to raise children in a feedlot.

[shimmergal]

155. Nobody's trying to tell them

what to do with their bodies---they can spend 23 hours a day in the sack if they want to.

But when children are are born as a result, it becomes society's business to a certain extent. If it didn't, we wouldn't have laws against infanticide.

[LostinVA]

168. oh brother

[IChing]

201. OK thanks......for that American dream crap

and screw the rest of the planet.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

210. Placing a reply here for future reference.

Author of the offending post: sanskritwarrior

[Bozita]

137. I'd never before thought of bearing offspring as an Olympic event.

It is now.

[DeSwiss]

140. I wonder how many kids thay'd have....

...if ol' Jim Bob had to carry them?

Breeders.

{walks off crying & disgusted shaking head}........

[Horse with no Name]

141. I'm pro-choice

This certainly wouldn't be MY choice...but to each his own.
We can't have it all ways.

[Gravel2008]

142. So? That's their choice alone, and NONE of your G-D business

Just like it's my choice and not for anyone to judge if I want to have a gay relationship. It seems a lot of you are hypocrites when it comes to which bedrooms you choose to stay out of, just like republicons...

[Bluebear]

144. Well, they are also CHOOSING to put mom on public display like a brood sow

Whatever tips your uterus, fine by me.

[marions ghost]

161. Has nothing to do with bedrooms...

:crazy:

The effects --both on these particular kids and on society --of breeding like rats is a fair topic.

We are at the point in this country where rampant spawning behavior draws legitimate criticism. Why? Because the standards we want for any & all of our children cannot be maintained without some discipline in reproduction by individuals. Why bring children into a degraded environment where their productive working life is over at 50 (to make room for the next generation of trons). And where the individual rights and liberties you speak of are a joke, submerged in the overwhelming need for crowd control.

We WILL face China's choices sooner or later.

:crazy::crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[LostinVA]

169. It's not a choice to be gay -- good try at slipping that in, though

And, a child's welfare is everyone's business, not only their parents.

[Bluebear]

179. That WAS artful. Went right past me. nt

[Raine]

189. Then they need to stay out of my uterus

and not be on the side that forces me to bare a child that I don't want to have. That's why I will judge their choice because they would take away mine!

[NorthernSpy]

190. if you turn your family life into a television show and start angling for freebies...

... then yeah, people might get the impression that it's okay to express an opinion about it.

[baby_mouse]

207. Agree, generally.

Might be quite nice to be a kid in such a big, interconnected relationship structure. Plenty of support.

Providing they aren't proposing that we ALL do this...

[eridani]

149. They are indirectly shilling for mass murder and genocide

Step one: breed descendants more numerous than stars and grains of sand.

Hebrews 11:12
Therefore there was born even of one man, and him as good as dead at that, AS THE STARS OF HEAVEN IN NUMBER, AND INNUMERABLE AS THE SAND WHICH IS BY THE SEASHORE.

Step two: Solve the problem of where all those grains of sand are going to live.

Leviticus, Chapter 26, verses 7-9
You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you. Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight; your enemies shall fall by the sword before you. For I will look on you favorably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you. You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old because of the new.

Deuteronomy 7:1-2
When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy.

Deuteronomy 20:16
...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..."

This is what the Duggers are all about. We've killed 600,000+ in Iraq for this agenda already.

[Eurobabe]

153. Hey, isn't he the brother from the Walnuts?

Jim Bob: what was your first clue.

[Judi Lynn]

156. Here's a photo of them welcoming the last one, before this "blessed event:}

~~~~ click for photo ~~~~

[Hekate]

159. I have a friend who's #5 of 17.Beneath the happy veneer home-life was dysfunctional,to say the least

Long before the last one was born her mom was completely overwhelmed, and tried to kill herself more than once. The oldest girls were pressed into service early on, of course. Younger kids would hide in closets or laundry piles to try to get a moment's privacy. Things went on between the kids that the parents had no inkling of.

They were Catholic, and were pressured by their religious leaders to eschew all forms of birth control as sinful. However suicide is virtually the ultimate sin, so the mother's suicidal behavior had to have come from the depths of despair.

The dad was tremendously stressed as well, as he was a blue collar worker most of his life and seldom could keep ahead of the bills. At some point he stopped sleeping with his wife.

The oldest 4 were the best off by far in terms of parental attention in their formative years, but in such a large tribe there were several clusters by age and gender. The youngest ones literally scarcely knew the oldest.

My friend, #5, is a psychological outsider and observer because when she was an infant she was hospitalized for several months, so she didn't bond to her mother and tribe the same way as the others. She became close to two maiden aunts who encouraged her to go to college and become a teacher; I met her in a PhD program at midlife. The rest of her family things she's weird.

Different Catholics make different choices, especially now. But back when my friend's mom and dad were having a baby a year because the Church told them contraception was a sin, my Catholic aunts and uncles were having two or three baby boomer kids and stopping cold. My lapsed-Catholic parents had the most of all: four. Even my grandmother and her sisters, who had their children between about 1915 and 1930, had no more than six -- and when my grandma's doctor told her to quit for her health, her priest more or less gave his blessing.

I agree with Mark Morford: 17 is abnormal. It may be a "choice" but we humans are not cut out for coping with that many babies, either psychologically or physically. The few who can do so successfully are the exception.

Hekate

[Dinger]

174. What Does He Do For A Living?

Whatever it is, it must pay well. Also, what about when the kids are gone from home? Talk about empty nest!
Also, the mom can't home school them in college and grant them a degree, or can she?

[shanti]

200. i believe

he's in "real estate"....

[Nihil]

177. That's not a family, it's a litter.

I feel sorry for the eldest girls but nothing other than disgust for the
sperm & egg donors (hardly "parents" in the usual sense of the word) and
their complete lack of intelligence.
:puke:

[youthere]

195. I agree..and on a grosser note...

17 Kids? I would think by number twelve they'd just fall out when she stood up.

[kskiska]

181. ALL the kids play the violin

Why not an orchestra? Group rate?

And they have no TV or computer.

[jgraz]

185. This is what you get when you have a culture of life instead of a culture of humanity.

I wonder how many of those children have an IQ over 100.

[KingFlorez]

187. What is the big deal here?

I see nothing wrong with these people having an unusually large family. They aren't hurting anybody and I find it sort of ridiculous that some people here are making out like this is some big problem. It's their personal choice that doesn't effect anyone else.

[marions ghost]

188. read the posts before yours

and you'll find some answers to your belated Q :)

[The Stranger]

196. Let us know when you wake up and realize it is 2007.

There are too many people on the planet, and there is birth control. It becomes less of a personal choice when the world's ecosystems are being destroyed to support those irresponsibly overpopulating the planet.

[baby_mouse]

208. Weird, isn't it?

Maybe they have strange opinions that we don't agree with, but conflating that irritation with the size of their family is just daft.

[0007]

191. Evidently these people don't use their head to the fullest extent

[The Stranger]

194. Disgusting.

[Madspirit]

202. Someone needs to neuter these people!

I Actually Think It's evil, small "e"...

I'm a children's advocate. They cannot possibly give each child the individual care a child needs. It's pathological. Something is wrong with these people.

...and this earth already, as Paul Simon says, groans each time another child is born. We are rapidly running out of resources. That isn't a myth. Population control is important.

...and they kind of...well...crude of me...but it's like insects or something. It kind of turns my stomach.

Someone needs to neuter these people.

Lee

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

206. Reminds me of the Simpsons episode.....

...where Cletus keeps calling the kids out of the house including one named Q-Bert.

[Alcibiades]

211. Good for them

It's not necessarily egotistical to want to have your own biological children. Having kids isn't selfish, or self-absorbed. It entails a great deal of financial sacrifice, and sacrifices of other kinds, if it is done properly. Nor is it immoral to have a large family--in this country, we have dropped below the replacement rate (or will do so shortly). As for the overpopulation "argument," it's just plain silly. There's lots of space in this country left. What hurts this planet are rich industrial patterns of consumption, not levels of human population per se. As for Rio, Mexico City, or wherever else, yes, these places are crowded, and I think it would be wrong for the Duggars to ship their kids there. Which I don't think they are going to do. (One of my least favorite stretches of road is across Northern Arkansas. From what I can tell, it will take the Duggars many years to fill up that place.)

It's not like this is a movement or anything. It's one family. If hordes of fundies began popping out 12+ kids per fertile female, that would be cause for concern. Yet, for the most part, even freaky bornagains have the 2.whatever kids that are part of the American lifestyle.

I'm not sure what's irresponsible about the Duggars' reproduction. Can they afford these kids? Are they getting the attention they need? All of our own ancestors came from families nearly as large as this one. Who are we to say that all of the human generations who came before us were irresponsible in their reproduction, particularly since it was that very reproduction that gave us life. Hopefully, these kids will all rebel and become goths.

Personally, I think responsible reproduction is having 2 or 3 kids. If you love life, and humanity, there is a moral obligation to replace yourself on this planet. But I'm not about to give anyone any poop for having no kids, or 23 kids.

This is just the normal distribution in action. The word for these people is "outliers." Everybody is free to do what they are good at. These people are good at having lots of kids. It's not for me to judge whether they are decent human beings, even if I hate their politics and religion (which are the same thing for these sorts of folks).

The Bushes, on the other hand, should all undergo forced sterilization for the good of humanity.