The Senate FISA bill is up in the House Now!!! nt

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

1. Reyes said it is not ideal but it's very important that "we" keep America safe and secure..It seems

he is for it.

[rodeodance]

6. Heightened, heightened ..........

[rodeodance]

2. cspan LINK

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

3. Thanks rodeodance. This way we can keep our eyes open and watch while we get f*cked. nt

[rodeodance]

5. maybe 2nd time around will be sweet??

[spotbird]

80. It will be more bitter. nt

[OzarkDem]

Go Nadler!!

Fearmongering...not what our Founding Fathers intended..

[L. Coyote]

46. Send this to your Congressperson:

Did Bush's Secrecy Endangered America? YES! Hiding Truth, Spying, FISA, and Trust Gonzo.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1514312
Sat Aug-04-07 06:17 PM by L. Coyote


A. Many months ago, a FISA court secretly ruled that it was illegal for the NSA to intercept communications routed through the USA.

B. Bush did nothing, except, of course, not reveal the secret ruling about the secret spying, because he had secretly violated the law himself.

C. Many months later, the secret FISA court ruling is revealed.

D. Bush blames Dems for not getting the fix on his desk overnight, want warrantless spying as a solution, and wants Gonzo to be the decider.

Geeee-eez, who needs math? Bush should have had this fixed overnight, many months ago, instead of guarding the secret!

NOW, in a masterful magic show of distraction, Bush and the Rs changed the issue by proposing that Gonzo be the decider on authorizing warrantless surveillance of Americans. Clever as all hell as distractions go, and everyone is falling for their sleight-of-hand magic show. But, didn't the Administration know about this when the FISA court handed down the ruling? ABSOLUTELY. But, they hid their dirty secret for political gain, and, epitomizing cynicism, now, when revealed, use it as a political tool.

CONCLUSION: Bush endangered America, knowing fully well the NSA could not legally intercept Al Queda communications routed through the USA, rather than let his dirty secrets get out! Damn simple. Who needs math? (Or maybe, he was violating the law and doing the spying anyway, so no worries mates.)

Tell me if I got any of this wrong, please.

And, which of the following is the likelier Bush scenario

A. illegally spying anyway, or
B. not fixing the problem to hide past crimes?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

125. Here's an easy way to do it. Thank babylonsister for this link

http://actforchange.workingassets.com/campaign/warrantless_wiretapping

Just add the DU link into the comment section.

[rodeodance]

4. 2nd time around. This is the Senate bill that passed last night

[rodeodance]

7. the Rhetoric is so so so PREdictable

[rodeodance]

8. rec

[rodeodance]

9. Calif. lady has lots of REservations.Zoe Loflan. SHE OPPOSES!

[rodeodance]

11. She will NOT vote for it.

[rodeodance]

13. says we need to take seriously our OATH to the Constitution. Right ON

[IChing]

10. Logren democrat doesn't like it say it grants the attorney general

wiretap anyone, anytime, and anywhere......we will reclaim the 4th amendment

[Solly Mack]

12. in 6 months.."undo the damage we do tonight"

and for our next trick, we will raise the dead

[rodeodance]

15. It will not be undone I can count on that. Listen to Blunt Bloviate!

[rodeodance]

17. kick

[Pushed To The Left]

14. We have a pretty big majority in the House

It would take a LOT of Democrats crossing party lines for this to pass.

[IChing]

23. We have a lot of blue dog dimocrats also

Old blue dog list from the last congress who voted for torture.


Blue Dog Members in the 109th Congress:--------------------------vote on torture-----
Rep. Joe Baca (CA)------------------no
Rep. John Barrow (GA)--------------yes
Rep. Melissa Bean (IL)--------------yes
Rep. Marion Berry (AR)--------------no
Rep. Sanford Bishop (GA)-----------yes
Rep. Dan Boren (OK)---------------yes
Rep. Leonard Boswell (IA)-----------yes
Rep. Allen Boyd (FL----------------yes
Rep. Dennis Cardoza (CA)----------no
Rep. Ed Case (HI)-----------------no
Rep. Ben Chandler (KY)------------yes
Rep. Jim Cooper (TN)--------------no
Rep. Jim Costa (CA)---------------no
Rep. Robert E. “Bud” Cramer (Al)---yes
Rep. Lincoln Davis (TN)-----------yes
Rep. Harold Ford, Jr. (TN)---------yes
Rep. Jane Harman (CA)-----------no
Rep. Stephanie Herseth (SD)------yes
Rep. Tim Holden (PA)------------yes
Rep. Steve Israel (NY)------------no
Rep. Mike McIntyre (NC)----------yes
Rep. Jim Marshall (GA)-----------yes
Rep. Jim Matheson (UT)----------yes
Rep. Charles Melancon (LA)-------yes
Rep. Mike Michaud (ME)----------yes
Rep. Dennis Moore (KS)-----------yes
Rep. Collin Peterson (MN)---------yes
Rep. Earl Pomeroy (ND)-----------yes
Rep. Mike Ross (AR)--------------yes
Rep. John Salazar (CO)------------yes
Rep. Loretta Sanchez (CA)---------no
Rep. Adam Schiff (CA)------------no
Rep. David Scott (GA)------------yes
Rep. John Tanner (TN)-----------yes
Rep. Ellen Tauscher (CA)---------no
Rep. Gene Taylor (MS)-----------yes
Rep. Mike Thompson (CA)--------no

25 of the blue dogs voted for it.

[Tatiana]

40. This is what I'm afraid of. We could kill this if most of the Dems stick together.

But who knows what the Blue(Red) Dogs will do?

[rodeodance]

60. "IF they stuck together"

[fooj]

83. I'm so sick of the bluedogs I could just hurl...

I want AUTHENTIC Democrats, dammit!

:puke:

[karlrschneider]

24. And we'll soon see who the 'loyalists' are.

:grr:

[karlrschneider]

16. Oh thanks for the heads up...it is on Cspan 1 on teevee

just so you guys know...
(I just now found that out)

[rodeodance]

18. i do not have cable

[karlrschneider]

74. I knew that, it was just a heads up.

:hi:

[John Q. Citizen]

19. Blunt (r) jus called the vacation the "district work period." Apparently the Iraqis

just take a vacation, but our congress critters take a "district work period."

[rodeodance]

20. of course GAPPY Blunt supports this bill

[rodeodance]

21. k

[rodeodance]

22. k

[Solly Mack]

25. America needs protecting from its own government

[rodeodance]

28. Dem Teeriery--boy is he on a roll. We will regret it he says if passed.WHOw

[rodeodance]

31. he is 2nd Dem that said it would violate 4th Amendment.

[Tatiana]

26. GO TIERNEY!

We don't just need to be protected from terrorists, but also from those who threaten our constitutional rights.

YES!!!!!!!!!

[IChing]

27. John Tierney democrat says no, the senate should regret what they did!!!!

[Tatiana]

29. "Civil liberties go quietly in the darkness...."

So true. I agree with everything Tierney said.

[John Q. Citizen]

30. Tierney again brought up Oath of Office to defend the constitution. All right!

[rodeodance]

35. I raise a glass to him (as I listen to this PUKKY Repug!!)

[rodeodance]

38. he said that all warrent should go thru a COURT, not AG

[Tatiana]

32. There's a difference between civil rights and rights in time of war?

WTF? Send this Repuke to Iraq.

[TahitiNut]

33. "We're at WAR!! We're at WAR!! We're at WAR!! We're at WAR!!"

What's this "we" shit?!?? :grr:

[Solly Mack]

34. Whoa....that man needs to be tossed out of government NOW

[L. Coyote]

36. Gombert just described Bush perfectly.

[Gregorian]

37. GOMER!!!!!!

This guy...

My head hurts already, today. You know, I really don't need this guy in my face.

But I feel the need to watch.

"We're at war!". To which I say, bullshit. We're at invasion.

[rodeodance]

42. He had no originality-----just Bushspeak

[rodeodance]

43. NADAR: Rights given away are not easity retaken!! WHOW

[rodeodance]

45. Nadar will vote NO

[rodeodance]

47. OH OH--Repug say Nadar alledged ILLEGAL acts by PRES. wants 'words taken down"

[rodeodance]

49. ISSA!! that REpug!!

[rodeodance]

52. ha ha---Nadar will keep his 'opinion" in an effort to get home at a decent time

[John Q. Citizen]

39. The Dems need to keep hammering on Oath of Office. The Repos are scared

about it, obviously.

[TahitiNut]

41. What Jerry sez!! Geaux Nadler!

(He's lost some weight. The operation is working. Good.)

[John Q. Citizen]

44. Yes, again talks about Oath of Office.

[Tatiana]

48. It makes me sick the way these thugs defend this administration.

The truth must hurt really bad if you want it stricken from the record.

[Pushed To The Left]

50. Shut up, Issa!

That's the guy who started the recall out here in California

[fooj]

89. He's a thug. I can't stomach the guy.

[Solly Mack]

51. OK. America WILL NOT - NOT - crumble if people acknowledge that Bush is a criminal

However, denying that Bush is a criminal IS destroying our country

[rodeodance]

53. some Repug is saying 'LIBERAL Democrats"!!!

[rodeodance]

59. repug Trent Franks uga uga"unspeakable irresponsibility" if NOT pass this bill

[John Q. Citizen]

54. Dems need to keep talking about the constitution, Oath of Office, and why this bill

nullifies the 4th amendment.

[Gregorian]

55. Franks- Burdensome FISA warrants.

That's BS. FISA warrants are retroactive for, what, two weeks?


LIAR!

[Solly Mack]

56. Bush means death to America....no need to worry about others doing it

[Tatiana]

57. NUKULAR JIHAD! AHHHH!!!!!!!! n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

58. I am dreading the outcome.

I have basically lost any hope that this congress will stand and fight.

[karlrschneider]

63. Is there even a quorum? I'm seeing about 14 people in there...

:wtf:

[Gregorian]

61. BOOM. Holt- This is about how America treats it's citizens.

This is how oppressive governments treat their people. They spy on their people. FISA warrants are not burdensome.

[rodeodance]

65. He did GRAND

[rodeodance]

62. Another Dem saying that Courts MUST be involved.

[John Q. Citizen]

64. Yes, more on the people rights vs oppressive government. Keep it up!

[Solly Mack]

66. Clue: The GOP knows it's a scare tactic..and they approve of it

they aren't "falling for it" ...they use the fear mongering to gain control...

[HughMoran]

67. Fuckin' RW fear mongering cowards

There is nothing more cowardly than a Republican.

[rodeodance]

68. another FEAR REPUGER is up-----instilling fear

[rodeodance]

71. Shela Jackson Lee is up

[rodeodance]

73. She will NOT vote for this new bill. That I KNOW>

[rodeodance]

76. "homeland Security is NOT a REpublican issue" We are tearing UP the Bill of Rights!

[rodeodance]

78. YOU GO GAL "Shame on the other body"--she wants this bill DEFEATED

[pinto]

69. 'nuclear jihad' is the meme now from another (R). Conflating

the right wing mantra about a world wide showdown with what is a law enforcement, intelligence issue. FISA works, warrants work, for us all. The hyperbole of fear is ridiculous.

[Solly Mack]

70. they need this law to learn about Darfur?

LMAO

[IChing]

72. This bill means when I talk to kids in Denmark they can wiretap me

They are doing it anyway but that is what it means.

[IChing]

101. The e-mails between my kids and myself can be looked at.

[Pushed To The Left]

75. Sheila Jackson Lee is doing great!!

I ask my colleagues to support the Bill of Rights! Awesome.

[w8liftinglady]

84. she is so articulate-one of the few Texans that sees the problem with FISA

[pinto]

77. Rep. Lee on fire about 'tearing up the constitution'.

[rodeodance]

85. ha ha---some repug is saying that Shela must have misspoke. Come back Shela

[rodeodance]

87. It was Dan Lundgren who said that. I hope Shela comes back and tells him to take a hike

[Gregorian]

86. We have a Bill of Rights.

We're lucky to have her.

[Tatiana]

79. 4th Amendment. Civil Liberties. The legislation offered last night secured America.

Shredding the Constitution. Shredding the Bill of Rights. Subject to the irresponsible scrutiny of the Attorney General without the intervention of a judicial party.

Shame on the other house!

WOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! GO SHEILA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Solly Mack]

81. the - Let's make the torture czar the head voyeur bill

[babylonsister]

82. Wow, nice to hear a Texan on the right side of this-go, Ms. Jackson-Lee! nt

[rodeodance]

91. and she gets mocked by the Repug Lundgren!

[Solly Mack]

88. "reasonably believed" LMAO from unreasonable people

[HughMoran]

90. Who's this RW moron?

Are there any Republicans that aren't fucking fear-mongering and lying morons?

[rodeodance]

92. Lundgren

[pinto]

108. He was AG of California.

:thumbsdown:

[NoodleyAppendage]

93. Lungren = dead poodle hairpiece pro-fascist assh*le!!!! n/t

Yield to my boot in your ass, dickhead!

J

[rodeodance]

94. can someone do a 2nd OFFICIAL thread please. ??

[L. Coyote]

95. BUSH did nothing and kept this secret, until leaked. REPUG HYPOCRITES!!

A. Many months ago, a FISA court secretly ruled that it was illegal for the NSA to intercept communications routed through the USA.

B. Bush did nothing, except, of course, not reveal the secret ruling about the secret spying, because he had secretly violated the law himself.

C. Many months later, the secret FISA court ruling is revealed.

D. Bush blames Dems for not getting the fix on his desk overnight, want warrantless spying as a solution, and wants Gonzo to be the decider.

Geeee-eez, who needs math? Bush should have had this fixed overnight, many months ago, instead of guarding the secret!

NOW, in a masterful magic show of distraction, Bush and the Rs changed the issue by proposing that Gonzo be the decider on authorizing warrantless surveillance of Americans. Clever as all hell as distractions go, and everyone is falling for their sleight-of-hand magic show. But, didn't the Administration know about this when the FISA court handed down the ruling? ABSOLUTELY. But, they hid their dirty secret for political gain, and, epitomizing cynicism, now, when revealed, use it as a political tool.

CONCLUSION: Bush endangered America, knowing fully well he could not legally intercept Al Queda communications routed through the USA, rather than let his dirty secrets get out! Damn simple. Who needs math? (Or maybe, he was violating the law and doing the spying anyway, so no worries mates.)

Tell me if I got any of this wrong, please.

And, which of the following is the likelier Bush scenario

A. illegally spying anyway, or
B. not fixing the problem to hide past crimes?

[IChing]

96. The republican has said about 7 lies about illegal wiretaps

and the bill.

[earthside]

97. Is the outcome of this vote predetermined?

From the way Rep. Reyes started the debate is sounds like passage is going to happen.

Why?

[rodeodance]

98. DEm is saying STOP the FEAR tactics

[Solly Mack]

99. oh just fucking vote already....my ass has no more room for smoke

[IChing]

105. Since you are outside the country you are suspect contacting any American.

[Solly Mack]

110. I know...I'm an American outside the country...and obviously not to be trusted

[IChing]

113. Same with my kids who have dual citizenship.

and all of my contacts with them.

[Solly Mack]

118. We'll just have to make sure we get in more digs while on the phone

:)

[buzzard]

124. How much do you want to bet that when the "terrorists" find out all communications

will be monitored they find some other method of communication maybe carrier pigeons.

[Solly Mack]

127. How much you wanna bet the "terrorists" are watching C-SPAN right this minute?

[SaveAmerica]

132. I demand to see this on the DUzy list on Friday!!

[rodeodance]

100. Dem Rep from Calif. I can not tell where she is going.

[rodeodance]

102. oh-----she is against the AG approving withOUT Courts!! Good!!

[rodeodance]

107. HA--"this is the Pres who had to acknowledge he was operating OUTside the Law" te he

[Solly Mack]

103. I live outside the country....fuck me and my rights I guess

[Tatiana]

104. Anna Eshoo is doing a good job, too. n/t

[creeksneakers2]

106. I don't understand why

the Democratic bill received 218 votes, a majority, but failed because it needed two thirds. Why did it need two thirds? Why doesn't the GOP version need two thirds? That's all nuts.

I'm sorry the Democratic version failed in the Senate. Those who spread disinformation about what was in the Democratic version did the left a great disservice. The Democratic version was close to passing.

[Gregorian]

109. Cell phones do not make the Bill of Rights obsolete.

Thanks Anna Echoo.

[rodeodance]

111. oh ho--------REPUG ISSA is up Ha says he will lower the tone!

[rodeodance]

112. he says he is the cosmopolitian-----travels to the ARAB world

[rodeodance]

115. "if pres. does not sign this tomorrow"--some to San diego. Sure sounds like he

is toning it down!!

[IChing]

116. I hate this fucking car thief.

[VP505]

119. Damned nervy

to be speaking for the Arab world, don't you think?

[w8liftinglady]

114. Issa is a dick.said nothing

[rodeodance]

122. and ended by saying NOTHING

[rodeodance]

123. now Conyers is Correcting LUNDGREN. te he

[HughMoran]

117. Lower the tone my ass

Republicans are hateful lying fear-mongering ass holes - not worthy of any respect.

[malaise]

120. Go John Conyers n/t

[Gregorian]

121. We knew about Bin Laden without this law. Issa is wrong.

[karlrschneider]

126. Maybe start thread #2?

This one's getting a tad long...;-)

[Lochloosa]

131. Here you go...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1514731

[babylonsister]

128. Rethugs using fear, right out of the playbook. Yawn. nt

[w8liftinglady]

129. FUCK mike rogers-this bill doesn't protect soldiers

[annabanana]

130. thread#2 up

here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1514731&mesg_id=1514731

[fooj]

133. Thanks!

:kick:

[L. Coyote]

134. ***** House Debate on (Senate) FISA Bill Thread #2******

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1514731

[Wiley50]

135. Wilson (crying):" My Kids Saw Janet Jackson's NIPPLES!!!111!!!! " n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

136. No they didn't.

At best they saw (sort of) one nipple. And even that was covered with some sort of bizarre thingamabobbery.

[mzmolly]

137. Ah, good to see there WAS "debate" on this.

:hi: