House Debate on (Senate) FISA Bill Thread #3

[Tatiana]

Thread #1:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1514392

Thread #2:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1514731

I like the fact that the Dems so far (Reyes excepted) are basing their opposition on the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. I also like the absolute disdain they are showing for Gonzo and the fact that they are asking whether we want an Attorney General like him approving spying plans.

Also... can someone tell me how the heck Jane Harman is going to vote? (OK, I guess she really tried to pull the wool over my eyes and will end up voting for this thing.)

On edit, here's the C-Span link to watch:

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS

[Solly Mack]

1. Thank you, Tatiana

:)

[debbierlus]

2. Just logged on - what is going on - is the Senator or House in session?

Update please!

[Solly Mack]

5. House debating/voting on what the Senate voted for last night (NSA/FISA)

[berni_mccoy]

7. House is debating bill passed by Senate legalizing Bush's Illegal Wiretapping Program

[debbierlus]

11. Is it on C-span?

[annabanana]

8. House talking FISA bill on CSpan. . partner to disastrous Senate vote

[kansasblue]

10. same here....when will the vote be?

thanks

[debbierlus]

32. I thought it was a done deal!

Can the House stop this atrocity???

[Tatiana]

22. It's the House.

But, unfortunately they are voting on a FISA bill just approved by the Senate, instead of their version. See this WaPo article for more:

The Senate bowed to White House pressure last night and passed a Republican plan for overhauling the federal government's terrorist surveillance laws, approving changes that would temporarily give U.S. spy agencies expanded power to eavesdrop on foreign suspects without a court order.

The 60 to 28 vote, which was quickly denounced by civil rights and privacy advocates, came after Democrats in the House failed to win support for more modest changes that would have required closer court supervision of government surveillance. Earlier in the day, President Bush threatened to hold Congress in session into its scheduled summer recess if it did not approve the changes he wanted.

The legislation, which is expected to go before the House today, would expand the government's authority to intercept without a court order the phone calls and e-mails of people in the United States who are communicating with people overseas.

(more...)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/03/AR2007080302296_pf.html

[babylonsister]

3. Whoo hoo, Rep. Steve Cohen (D-TN) angry ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1514093&mesg_id=1514093

[annabanana]

4. Keith Ellison. . Constitution guy.

[karlrschneider]

13. And the irony, he's Muslim. He's a far better American than any of these Repukes.

................

[w8liftinglady]

6. recommmend-Americans need their privacy

[partylessinOhio]

9. Sad - House should be spending as much time on impeachment

then no need to touch FISA.

Will this pass?

[w8liftinglady]

12. funny how the career military are Dems-Sestak

[annabanana]

14. Sestak is great! Intel man, knows FISA system...

[pinto]

15. Kudos, Rep. Ellison. He reads the Constitution:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects..."

[FogerRox]

134. Right, thats the 4th ammendment

I'm rather fond of it....

[Terri S]

16. Ben Franklin's being quoted a lot tonight n/t

[billyoc]

17. Sestak quoting the founders!

Don't make me get Revolutionary on they ass!

[Solly Mack]

18. Last week:Gonzales should resign! This week:Give Gonzales more power!

[liberal N proud]

99. Example of just how twisted things are in the once mighty nation

It has come down to this, the removal of one more of our civil rights, Privacy.

[L. Coyote]

19. Recommend now.

[w8liftinglady]

20. allow me to say ...FUCK Tihart

[Terri S]

34. lol! allowed and seconded ! n/t

[high density]

21. wow, this guy is a nut

LIBERALS!!!

[spanone]

23. who is this asswipe? democrats have put the country in jeopardy? todd go fuck ones self

[rodeodance]

37. Janet Reno, burning children, LIBERAL dems. ect. He is a nutcase for sure.

[Gregorian]

24. Tiahrt has rabies? Why all of his hateful talk.

Geez.

[zabet]

25. Geeeezzz WACO!?!

Knew they would get their subversive stab.

edit spelling

[Gregorian]

29. Sheesh. That was a one man Republican blitzkrieg.

Haa

[w8liftinglady]

31. I was thinking the same thing-that's all these bastards have?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

26. Thanks and recommended!!!! EOM

[pinto]

27. Apparently 'liberal Democrats' are the problem. Oy. I thought it was bin Laden.

[L. Coyote]

28. Liberal DEMS are the real enemy. Now we know!

[partylessinOhio]

30. Makes Gonzo - sheriff, the judge and the jury !

[billyoc]

33. Ok, Steny, big finish, come on! n/t

[Gregorian]

35. As a Dem, I repent. Please, take my Bill of Rights!

Take my wife too while you're at it. I don't need either of them.

[Solly Mack]

36. What constraints on those in power?

[annabanana]

38. I HATE when a Dem says "homeland". . Hey Stenny!

what's up?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

39. Good he's voting against it!!!!! Go Steny!!!! eom

[rodeodance]

43. why do you say he is being Forced?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

49. I was wrong, thank goodness. Just his body language is revealing. Maybe he knows

he doesn't have the votes to stop it.

[Tatiana]

60. Or else someone was twisting his arm to get him to vote for the measure.

I agree, there is something about his body language that is really anguished.

[Tatiana]

45. "I will be voting AGAINST this legislation." YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t

[L. Coyote]

40. C-SPAN LINK to stream LIVE online

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS

[debbierlus]

Alright, I am with you now, watching C-span -thanks for the clue phone!

[debbierlus]

47. Hoyer is articulate - Rethugs are nuts

[debbierlus]

59. There is no working together with Republicans

[debbierlus]

83. I don't know if the dems have any idea how big this bill is for them

Yes, the majority is probably not paying attention, but WE are...and, it is us who provide the foundation of the party. We volunteer, letter-write, phone campaign, door to door, & all the rest. We are the blogs & the voice that has been responsible for a slow change of discussion in this country, & here they stand...

They are risking alienating the people who are their base. There are only so many straws the camels back can hold.

[debbierlus]

93. Don't let the terrorists win - BEAUTIFUL DEBBIE Wasserman FL

Don't let the terrorists win & take away our rights

[annabanana]

41. He's freeing the caucus to vote their consciences...

[billyoc]

46. at least steny says he's against it. n/t

[babylonsister]

51. Well isn't that a breath of fresh air if that's his intent. An underused concept

lately.

[Solly Mack]

42. I rather be free...I rather have rights

[zabet]

50. Me too!!!!! eom

[annabanana]

44. He's voting AGAINST it!

[Bumblebee]

57. But he knows it will pass...

[rodeodance]

48. HOYER Says he will vote AGAINST it. yahoo

[rodeodance]

55. an earlier post said we only need a Simple majority.

[Bumblebee]

67. THEY only need a simple majority.

[Breeze54]

52. I'm totally shocked they're still going at it!

:wtf: On a Saturday??

K & R

[Gregorian]

53. Hoyer wants a better bill.

[brentspeak]

54. It sounds like Hoyer knows the bill is going to pass

[rodeodance]

61. but he did well.

[partylessinOhio]

73. It will take Dem votes to pass it. WTF is wrong with them???

America is safe - note to Boner! STFU!

[annabanana]

56. It sounds like he expects it to pass...n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

70. That's what I'm reading from his demeanor. At first, when he started to speak I

thought he himself was being forced to vote for it, but that wasn't it. Such saddness in him.

[L. Coyote]

58. Hooray. Hoyer votes for the Constitution NAY on SB1984

I know it is actually SB 1927!

[HughMoran]

62. Fuck-nut BONER is up

I had to switch the channel. I can't stand the smug-faced liars like BONER.

[w8liftinglady]

63. oh,helll=Boehner is on-pimping soldiers

[rodeodance]

64. Boenner. yaddy yah----we live in a dangerous world he says.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[brentspeak]

75. Ok, coward

Now run along to Mommy.

[HughMoran]

76. I think you're a tool

lol - welcome and good evening...

[rodeodance]

77. specificss please? I saw Hate coming from Repugs tonight.

[brentspeak]

87. (check his profile)

[rodeodance]

i should have before I responded

[Solly Mack]

85. LMAO

[Greeby]

104. Ho boy, we got a live one

:popcorn:

[Terri S]

66. Boehner

dangerous world, Al Queda, terra terra terra.... be afraid...be VERY afraid!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

74. I just used the magic Mute button!!!! Easier to read his terra rhetoric than to listen. nt

[billyoc]

68. ach, who brought the asshole?

boehner, you suck.

[Solly Mack]

69. and radical government elements aimed at controlling Americans

[Gregorian]

71. Boehner! I just LOVE that pink tie. Have a big kiss.

Mmmmmmwa.

[zabet]

72. Boehner.............ick ick ick ick.

[Gregorian]

81. I think he's drunk. He's slurring speech.

Colortinis for Boehner.

[babylonsister]

78. Boner: 6 months, 6 months, sounds like the surge, doesn't it. nt

[Solly Mack]

79. America will NEVER be safe with people like Boehner in office

[buzzard]

80. Well all I can say after listening to this is that if I were a smart "terrorist" I would

communicate by telepathy.

[billyoc]

82. Standing "Rove"ation for boehner. n/t

[snappyturtle]

84. Goodie.....Boehner.....wanna guess how he's going to go on this?

Oh yes our troops need this bill to give them the info they need! I can't imagine our troops have the time to study this....

[Terri S]

86. That's my Congresswoman!!!

May be the only politician worth a damn in this state! You go Deb!

[Nictuku]

89. She is awsome, one of my favorites

[debbierlus]

98. She is wonderful

[debbierlus]

108. I don't like this at all. I agree it will pass

And, I am in the conudrum of how to best advocate for this country.

This is an OUTRAGE.

Spy without warrants with no justifiable suspicion.

[snappyturtle]

121. Agreed...she's awesome! Too bad she couldn't finish her last

thought.

[spanone]

88. no one changes anybody's minds in these pathetic exercises.

they should just get together and vote and go home.

[Solly Mack]

92. Exactly....just vote already

[babylonsister]

102. It gives people a place to change their minds if so inclined.

Maybe someone they respect had an argument they couldn't ignore.

Yea, I'm an optimist usually.

[Solly Mack]

113. ((((babylonsister))))

just cause.... :)

[babylonsister]

131. Back at you, my friend!!

:pals:

[rodeodance]

90. Dem, FL------no court order, Do we TRUST this ADministratin? WHOW. what a question

[rodeodance]

97. dang, that dem just said yes without saying it.

[babylonsister]

91. Wasserman-Schulz on fire! nt

[Tatiana]

94. I'm getting a sick feeling in my stomach. They're going to pass this, aren't they?

I wish Steny had been a bit more passionate. The House was our last hope.

I suspect the damn Blue Dogs will be the culprits again.

[Solly Mack]

96. Yes

[desi]

127. And now we have to listen to numbnuts....

adding further insult...

[Solly Mack]

129. yep....insult to injury

[OzarkDem]

105. A few passionate speeches won't mean anything

if Dems can't kill this bill, there will be hell to pay from their base.

Dem leadership will take a huge hit if it passes.

[Tatiana]

119. Actually, I don't think Steny completely had his mind made up until the end.

But I agree that if this passes, Pelosi and Reid will take big hits. Pelosi moreso than Reid, I think.

[Bumblebee]

114. They are. No miracles unfortunately.

[desi]

95. This vote is going to be interesting.

The republics will all vote to give Alberto Mitchell-Gonzales supreme powers because they simply walk in lock-step. The question will be on how many Democrats vote for this sham because they don't want to be held "hostage" by Bushco who has said he will keep them in session. That would be GOOD..no recess appointments....

[michaz]

101. And they could tell from that screeching??

[desi]

123. NINE Dems have already voted to go on vacation....

instead of standing up to our Fuhrer...

[rodeodance]

106. I am almost excited.

[Nictuku]

109. That is a very good point!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

100. What the fuck! They Ayes Have It???? Is this guy psychic??? Or did they count the votes already? nt

[Wiley50]

107. Talk about Ramming a Vote through! n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

111. Who the hell was that???? I hated how he was slamming down Debbie. eom

[HughMoran]

That is normal procedure

I take it you never watch the Congress work?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

116. I've watched it plenty. He pushed that the Ayes had it. Why? eom

[billyoc]

112. I know, how do they know? That's a voice vote, everybody yells "yea" or

"nea" and the chair is supposed to just "know" by how loud each side is! :crazy:

[babylonsister]

125. Was that a voice vote, and who knows? Maybe rethugs are louder. nt

[pinto]

103. Vote's up.

[NoodleyAppendage]

110. People please pay attention to the Dem TRAITORS voting "yea". Vote them out of office.

Now is the time for mental notes on who are the TRAITORS to democracy in our party and vote the scum out of office the first chance we get.

I'm counting 5 Dem "Torries" right now.

J

[michaz]

115. 7 voting for it

[high density]

117. yep

As always the GOP in lockstep, while the Dems always seem to fracture just enough to enable them.

[HughMoran]

124. Do the Repubs just hold up their arm and yell "Heil Hitler!" ?

So far not a single Republican with a lick of sense WRT our constitutional rights - amazing how horrible Republicans are.

[L. Coyote]

118. Did Bush's Secrecy Endangered America? YES! Hiding Truth, Spying, FISA, and Trust Gonzo.

FROM: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1514312

A. Many months ago, a FISA court secretly ruled that it was illegal for the NSA to intercept communications routed through the USA.

B. Bush did nothing, except, of course, not reveal the secret ruling about the secret spying, because he had secretly violated the law himself.

C. Many months later, the secret FISA court ruling is revealed.

D. Bush blames Dems for not getting the fix on his desk overnight, want warrantless spying as a solution, and wants Gonzo to be the decider.

Geeee-eez, who needs math? Bush should have had this fixed overnight, many months ago, instead of guarding the secret!

NOW, in a masterful magic show of distraction, Bush and the Rs changed the issue by proposing that Gonzo be the decider on authorizing warrantless surveillance of Americans. Clever as all hell as distractions go, and everyone is falling for their sleight-of-hand magic show. But, didn't the Administration know about this when the FISA court handed down the ruling? ABSOLUTELY. But, they hid their dirty secret for political gain, and, epitomizing cynicism, now, when revealed, use it as a political tool.

CONCLUSION: Bush endangered America, knowing fully well the NSA could not legally intercept Al Queda communications routed through the USA, rather than let his dirty secrets get out! Damn simple. Who needs math? (Or maybe, he was violating the law and doing the spying anyway, so no worries mates.)

Tell me if I got any of this wrong, please.

And, which of the following is the likelier Bush scenario

A. illegally spying anyway, or
B. not fixing the problem to hide past crimes?

READ MORE:

SO, how many secret domestic spy programs are there anyway, and are they legal?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1481897&mesg_id=1481897

[rodeodance]

120. # 4 thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1515186

[in_cog_ni_to]

122. 10!!!!! traitors have voted for this. Do they need 2/3 to pass this piece of crap legislation?

Anyone know? Or is this a simple Majority vote?

[HughMoran]

126. Where are people getting this 2/3 thing?

??

[Starfury]

128. It's not like Bush is gonna veto this one....

[creeksneakers2]

130. That's what I don't get

They had 218 for the Democratic bill but said they needed 2/3. Why don't they need 2/3 for the GOP bill? Why did they allow this situation?

[desi]

132. The republics are celebrating...

I finally have to agree...our "leadership" SUCKS !!!!!

[lovuian]

135. These Votes are important we see for ourselves US Government

is in shambles it is NOT a two party system
its a ONE PARTY and allowing BUSH regime more power every step of the way

it makes for anarchy and US to deteriorate imploding from within

Its important to be witnesses to these events

[L. Coyote]

133. ***** # 4 official thread. House FISA voting NOW. WHOW *****

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1515186&mesg_id=1515186