We gave away our 4th amendment rights today

[rateyes]

in the name of FEAR.

How many more rights are we willing to give up before we overcome our fear and fight?

Which right, when taken away from you, will be the last straw?

Free speech? Freedom to assemble? Freedom to air our grievances? Freedom of the press (as if we exercise that one :sarcasm:)? Freedom of/from religion? Habeas corpus? (Oh, that's right, we've given that one away, too.)

What's it going to take?

Oh, what the hell. This isn't important...Lindsay Lohan's been arrested! I guess I need to sort out my priorities.

[babylonsister]

1. No, it's a 'good' vote according to many DUers! Time to celebrate!

Also time for vacations.

I want to tear myself away from all the great Dems who voted tonight.

[sanskritwarrior]

6. Good vote in my opinion

but hey I already know how the process works as we use it in the military......

[atreides1]

11. Which military would that be???

[sanskritwarrior]

14. The American one

why do you ask?

[napi21]

2. As I understand the bill, I don't think we did.

Yes Shrub is free to gather any info on foreign calls, emails, internet correspondence, but I Think THEY STILL should to go through the FISA cC
OURT for any domestic stuff.

I haven't read the bill completely, but from several attorneys I've hear from who have done that, that' the bill.

My problem is the word should. I would much prefer MUST!

[VP505]

5. Problem is

this update allows Gonzo to decide who is a foreigner and who isn't, who they can spy on and who they can't. That responsibility SHOULD belong to the Courts, not some asshole appointed by another asshole boss.

[napi21]

10. I understand you don't trust Gonzo. Neither do I! But think about what you said.

It should be up to the courts. And just who has appointed almost all the judges in the past 6+ years? At least with Gonzo we stand a shot at tossing him out! Most Fed. Judges, even the FISA judges have all been appointed by Shrub! I'm not sure there was a better alternative to the bill they approved.

[Hippo_Tron]

18. If the FISA judges were partisan hacks, Bush wouldn't be trying to get this new power

The key is that once they are on the bench, they don't have to take orders from Bush. Also, the Senate probably scrutinizes them a tad bit more than they did Gonzales.

I have more confidence in the FISA Court than in Gonzales.

[Speck Tater]

3. D.C. Dems: Another example of why the human race is doomed to extinction. nt

[StClone]

4. That Quaint Playbook?

Lost in today, feel lonely and confused? The problem is you're living by that antiquated U.S. Constitution and Bill Rights.

We've evolved to a New Order where it's ever billionaire for himself. (Not really we help each other out but saying that sounds good)

What's that you say you aren't a billionaire!? Well that goes for arms dealers then, too! Not an arms dealer war profiteer?...well Hedge fund manager then!

No? What are you some kind of loser? An anachronism from the Jeffersonian Wonderland era?

Look we aren't getting anywhere. O.K. fine call it Social Darwinism then if that settles your gut. And Blah, blah, blah to that 1984 stuff.

Look I'm off to Iran (oil) with or without your help... are you on with the revision of FISA or are you letting the terrorist win?

What 4th Amendment...look you obviously aren't listening because you are more scared of losing this fantasy of The Constitution than you are of terrorists...you're not right in the bean there fella.

[babylonsister]

7. Whoa. Good response. Thanks. What 4th amendment? nt

[wiggs]

8. ACLU should take the bill to the Supreme Court. Oh...maybe not.

Also...didn't a case just get thrown out because the citizens opposing spying couldn't PROVE that they were spied upon and that their own civil rights were actually violated?

[knight_of_the_star]

13. That's the catch innit?

To be able to effectively sue these bastards for violating our rights we have to prove it, but we can't prove it so long as the proof is classified or nonexistent grrrrrrr

[Administrator1]

9. Twilight Zone?

It is like an episode of the "Twilight Zone," isn't it? Consider this plot:

The U. S. Government has been taken over in a bloodless coup. The people, who are unaware, are confused at how differently their government is acting.

Those who have taken over are students of Machiavelli and they know how to manipulate the populace. By using scare tactics, they get citizens to give up their freedoms incrementally. They discourage reading and education but make sure that television and other media entertain. They manipulate the press so that what is reported can't be trusted. The entire society has changed, but somehow no one remembers when it was any other way.


****
www.massachusettsobserver.com

[BeHereNow]

17. Welcome to DU, great post.

Unfortunately, it is not a Twilight Zone episode,
it is our collective reality.
BHN

[radfringe]

12. I think we have one remaining

right to bear arms... don't want to upset the NRA on that, they might stop funding congress

[knight_of_the_star]

16. Gods willing we won't need to use that one

To walk the road paved with blood and iron is to go down a path that only leads one way regardless of who is the victor.

[orleans]

15. no biggie. we weren't using them anyway.

:sarcasm: