Our system of government really, really sucks.

[Philosoraptor]

Who designed this shit? Who came up with all these ridiculous rules and roadblocks and all this time wasting and money flushing and political infighting and lobbying and lying and robbing and murdering? Was it a complete bunch of morons?

Voting is totally pointless. Only multi millionaires can be president. The vice president is actually running the show. The president is a drug addled idiot. The whole administration is made up of oil men and religious zealots and giant conglomerates and pirates and con men, and they've murdered a million people. They've started a war that wasn't necessary and now they say they can't stop it or manage it.

America screamed that it was sick of the stupid war, yet it rages on. We screamed that we want better health care for all and they laughed as us. The president laughs in our faces at every news conference, while sending our military off to earn him and his pals more trillions and we're supposed to just pretend this is all perfectly normal.

This so called 'system', this so called society, this so called government just really, really SUCKS. What the hell is it good for? How the hell did it get THIS bad? How much worse will it get?

[sanskritwarrior]

1. Huh

from living in other countries for much of the past 14 years, our system is infinitely better than any other system out there.......Just my humble opinion.....

[fujiyama]

8. Better than most I definitely agree

but how do we really compare with other industrialized nations' governments?

After all, if we look at rankings of lack of corruption, transparency, openness, trustworthiness, and accountability, we can hardly claim to be number one. In fact on most of those counts, we are falling farther and farther behind other nations.

[Philosoraptor]

9. We are headed in a very bad direction.

We are letting too many of these maniacs get away with too many crimes.

There's ALWAYS room for improvement.

I ALWAYS enjoy your posts.

[sanskritwarrior]

17. How can you prove they are crimes?

As of today aren't they just crimes according to you? If you could point me to the convictions of these crimes and then how people still get away with these things, I would be most appreciative.....

[H2O Man]

25. Silly.

If a person commits a crime, it is the act that makes it a crime, not a potential conviction. For example, if a person murders another, most rational people would agree that is a crime, regardless of if he is caught, investigated, tried and convicted. Anyone who suggests otherwise should not be taken too seriously.

[sanskritwarrior]

26. So we should not take people seriosuly that want

due process........

yes something is silly alright. Again prove to me the crimes happened, just saying they did is not proof. This is so like the "war is illegal" crowd, I am still waiting 6 months after the fact for one DUer to prove to me that our government considers the war illegal........

[H2O Man]

28. Sillier.

You are making things up.

[sanskritwarrior]

29. LMAO

is that truly the best you have?

[H2O Man]

31. I feel no need

to produce "the best" in response to your silliness.

[sanskritwarrior]

32. But you feel the need to say I am silly

Yes comrade, you must always be on guard for those who dissent from the party line......... :eyes:

[H2O Man]

33. Not a "need" .....

at all.

[sanskritwarrior]

34. Oh a compulsion........

I see........Well sir I'll let you have the last word as you inevitably will do.........

[H2O Man]

35. Thanks. n/t

[baby_mouse]

36. In response to you, not much more was required.

[sanskritwarrior]

37. Well maybe

but you felt the need to "me too!!!" what h20man said........

Apparently something was required, maybe satisfying your own latent narcissism?

[leftchick]

42. not silly

it is nonsense

[H2O Man]

43. I was looking

for even the smallest bit of good. Alas, it was not to be found.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren Stupidity]

63. don't bother. waste of electrons. nt.

[YOY]

78. Amen there

n/t

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

46. It's an illegal war to those who recognize international law and the UN Charter

Kofi Annan said as much. The question of legality always depends on which set of laws one recognizes and values.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3661134.stm

And the illegality of the Iraq war under the UN Charter was also the opinion of Tony Blair's own Attorney General, who advised him against invading Iraq shortly before the war began:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/document/2003/0307advice.htm

[Prophet 451]

59. What they consider illegal is irrelevant

The defining of a war as legal or illegal is not down to individual nations to judge, it is laid out in international law. If it were judged by the individual nations involved, there would be no such thing as an illegal war.

As for the crimes, they very fact that the Bushistas have gone to great lengths to have their actions retroactively declared legal (which violates a central principle of law in itself) is proof that at the time they were comitted, they were illegal.

[fasttense]

41. Wiretapping on American citizens without warrants.

That is a crime that the bushes have admitted and continue to carry out. They knew it was illegal otherwise crazy king george would not have lied when he first admitted to secretly spying on American citizens. Forget the silly little FISA law, read the Constitution. It is clear the bushes have continued to break the law and ignore the Constitution.

In signing statements he clearly lays out his intent to read our mail. These aren't imaginary acts. They are clear violations of law. Yet our kowtowing Democratic Congress lets him get away with it.

Just because you get away with it, doesn't mean their was no crime. When a bank robber is being hunted down by the police, the police are investigating a crime, not a hypothetical accident. Money was stolen and the thief has just not been caught. The same can be said for the bushes. A crime has been committed. But our police (Congress) are busy kowtowing to the criminals instead of hunting them down. Sounds more like a banana republic to me.

[bonito]

51. How can we investigate these people

Example http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/18/AR2006071800601.html
executive privilege denying subpoenas, making laws to fit their crimes, signing statements, executive orders, its organized crime at the top.

[bonito]

53. You walk into a house and smell gas

Its a sure bet theres a gas leak without determinating its source even though you are prohibited to find its source. is there no place in law for common sense?

[John Q. Citizen]

74. If only convictions signify crime, then we are in a lot more trouble than you think.

[sanskritwarrior]

15. As for industrialized nations

I can only use Germany and South Korea as examples, both are far more corrupt than America and both are far more likely to have a political caste system in place where certain people are groomed to be politicians.......I know we have political families here as well, but in germany at least it seemed that every politician had a sheet with blocks to get checked, and when all the blocks were cheked you were granted access to the government......In the US it has never seemed that way.

As for the other issues I have no hard facts to dispute you, I just have experiences and conversations where people in foreign countries (even in the Bush years) envied our country and our system of government, considering it far superior to their own.........

[H2O Man]

24. However,

in terms of corruption, and the lack of transparency, openness, trustwothiness, and accountability, this administration has few true competitors. Only the 3rd world "leaders" could come close, and the are minor league.

[sanskritwarrior]

30. There is something we can agree on

[tabasco]

16. How is our system "infinitely better" than, say, Sweden or Canada?

There's a lot of room for improvement in this country and this "we're the greatest" bullshit just keeps us from getting better.

[sanskritwarrior]

18. Never said there wasn't room for improvement

but I do consider our system superior to the systems in both Sweden and Canada, sorry just my humble opinion.

[fed-up]

44. and have they been responsible for the deaths of one million innocent people??? nt

[sanskritwarrior]

47. have we?

Oh you mean that shitacular Lancet study that people in the military use as toilet paper.........

[KAZ]

70. A perfect metaphor for what most of us do with your posts.

Electronically speaking. At least you bring us the double roll size. Little scratchy, though.

[Madspirit]

79. "A perfect metaphor for what most of us do with your posts."

:rofl:


Yup...


Lee

[sanskritwarrior]

90. And yet you feel the need to comment

so you like wiping your mouth with toilet paper, electronically speaking of course..........

And thanks for disrespecting me........ :patriot: rock on, support those troops.........

[blonndee]

52. In what ways, specifically? n/t

[Telly Savalas]

61. I lived in Canada for about five years, and would have to disagree.

It's not utopia, but there's an element of sanity that exists in their political process which is sorely lacking here.

[truedelphi]

87. Have you lived in Sweden or Canada?

I have lived in Norway and in Canada.

In neither place are you gonna end up homeless and in the street because you went bankrupt obtaining medical care.


Other industraklized nations believe in diplomacy rather than endless war.

But then, endless war would not be necessary if it were not for the Federal Reserve and its demands for continual debt. And this monetary system is something that the other nations do not have preying upon their citizens.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

19. actually intended, and executed, to be better than most

not so currently

[Dark]

2. Try living with China's system. Then get back to me. n/t

[Philosoraptor]

4. Screw China.

Respectfully, I don't want to compare nations, I just want this one to get it together.

[wake.up.america]

5. It's not the system. It's the people who allow the morons to take over.

[Prophet 451]

56. Dumb arguement

Comparing teh US political system to that of China is a child's game. Yes, the US is better, so what? You're comparing it to one of the worst systems in the world.

Comparing the US system to the UK, or France, or Germany would be slightly more meaningful.

[Solon]

62. If China is the ONLY other nation on the planet, then you would have an argument...

However, that is not the case, so your argument is stupid.

[Philosoraptor]

3. I'm talking about THIS country.

[wake.up.america]

6. Good point!

[knight_of_the_star]

7. You have to give it this much credit

Said "shit" lasted so far for two hundred years and if we get off our asses instead of pissing and moaning then Gods willing it will last another two hundred at least.

[BlooInBloo]

10. There's no system that's proof against a stupid, mean, and bigoted electorate.

[Philosoraptor]

11. You get the government you can put up with I guess.

[sanskritwarrior]

22. Yes

the American people as a whole are evil, dumb racists.............. :eyes:

Oy vey.......

[BlooInBloo]

45. So long as the problem remains unacknowledged, so long will it persist....

... And note that there are additional ways to be bigoted as well.

[KharmaTrain]

12. Power Corrputs, Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely

The founders knew this wasn't a perfect system, but it sure beat the hell out of what was there previously...or at least since Pericles. But Franklin was the one, I think, that said something to the effect of "here's your democracy, now it's up to you to make it work". That's the rub...making it work.

It wasn't designed to be a people's government...as our founders were the gentry...there weren't any women or blacks or anything else than White christian men who wrote the Constitution and for many years, they were the only ones who could participate in it. Over the years, more people have been able to participate in the system and that's helped make this country stronger...and it will again.

You get the government you work for. If you don't pay attention and let the bastards get corrupt or too comfy, then you get the oligarchies and abuses. If you don't stay dilligent to their actions and either hold them accountable or work to replace them, you'll get spineless weasels or party hacks.

So you have the options...either work for change from within or from without. My fear is that people get so frustrated they just opt out of the system altogether and the Repugnicans and their proxies get what they've always wanted...a dumbed down, frustrated opposition. I don't know about you, but I'll keep fighting from within and work for long-term positive change.

Cheers...

[sandnsea]

13. Media ownership

There's no diversity of opinion anymore. As bad as MSNBC and CNN are, there are plenty of local newspapers that make Faux News look sane. Some people never hear a different point of view their entire lives; I would actually call it the truth myself. What are you gonna do, half the time DUers don't want to believe the scam the corporates are running on us.

[MatrixEscape]

14. The powers that be have always designed it ...

They were always one cut above the rest of the populace as history proves. They used knowledge, religion, power, and politics to manage the masses, and that is what is going on today and it will continue towards a technological, hive mind ... UNLESS we can see that whole process in a collective way and find an effective way to react.

Maybe that's the final acid test. Either the masses will see the divisive class war for what has been, is, and may always be, or they will begin to comprehend it and start there, working upwards and onwards. Either that, or my suppositions about the mind itself being nothing but oneupmanship from the very start are totally true and those who use it best win, and the rest are subject to their conquest. In that case, all compassion, love, and sympathetic, supposedly "human" traits aside, the lest informed and powerful lose all, plain and simple. The outsiders are certainly doomed to be servants, in one way or another, to their more capable and empowered masters, for all time as long as our species continues to live by and continue its historical dilemma.

If we cannot break out of our individual subscriptions to how we use the mind to get one up on our fellows, be it from education, to work, to job position, to entreprenurism, to control and interaction with our friends and family and neighbors, then what in all realistic contexts would you expect from your cherished, mind-endowed species? Really now! Look at it! How much of your daily life, (no matter how the process is "imposed" upon you) is about using your wonderful gift of mind to uplift and further your self, your family, or what you personally identify with as important or valuable? Think now. Go ahead, open up to it.

We see that families, cables, and power groups are above and beyond us in using this very same tendency to control us and manipulate us for their own devices, yet we use that as a catharsis and a diversion from the fact that we are thinking and living in the very same paradigm in our day-to-day lives. If WE cannot deal with or change that, (no matter how we would like to blame them for our current circumstance that invites us and incites us to do this) then how do we expect those who already have what we would covet to change their ways?

Yes, for those who read this from the right state of mind and with enough experience, we have a bona fide Catch-22 that does effectively turn around and whack us in the head as we succumb to the expected reactions that those above and beyond us anticipate and then manage, much to our dismay and total chagrin.

[Virginia Dare]

80. Interesting post, and very astute, thanks...n/t

[Hubert Flottz]

20. A guy named David Rockefeller I heard...

[HCE SuiGeneris]

21. We are wimps.

No gumption for real protest, change, action... tomorrow maybe...

[Disturbed]

23. Who designed the party system so that only two parties

have a chance at power sharing?

[MonkeyFunk]

27. it didn't need to be designed

a two-party system is the natural result of a winner-take-all electoral system.

If you need 50% + 1 to gain power (or even just a plurality), two factions will naturally form, both shifting and changing to try to gain that small edge in the middle.

[many a good man]

58. Silly question

Who designed the two party system?

The two parties themselves, of course.

The Constitution did not even broach the subject of parties. Most founding fathers are on record abhorring the idea of "factions", the word for parties at the time.

The Senate and the House were given the authority to make the rules about how to conduct the proceedings in their own respective chambers. Over the centuries, they tinkered and tinkered and eventually created what we see now.

The Constitution gives states the power to draw up the rules for elections. They have used this power to cement a two party system that virtually eliminates the threat of third parties.

Our system has proven itself useful at maintaining "stability," but not quite so proficient at solving problems in a very timely manner.

[dkofos]

38. It got that way because people don't give a shit, don't pay attention

and are easily duped.

[malaise]

39. Read Michael Parenti's

Democracy for the Few for starters.

As bad as the system is, there will be no change until people take the streets. No system changes without demands from its citizens.

[Voltaire]

40. Thomas Jefferson suggested a fix. . .

You can look it up

[KAT119]

48. k&R n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

49. Well, you forgot about the credit crunch and the mortgage crash.

[blues90]

50. I don't know what happened .

For those who say what about China as to living there , why compare us to China , we were at one time a country with hope and were looked up to , so now we can be a little bit better than China < great , perfect .

This just show how far we have fallen down to the garbage level .

If it takes as it does money to be the best pick then this only embraces what is wrong with the heart and soul of this country , money rules all and this is the wrong raod to take however popular it has become .

I wonder what it would be like if , money was not the motivator but the human factor was the driving force . Money and greed are what this country is all about , this has become worse and worse .

I am not interseted in a candidate based on a funding race and this is what we have , is this the best we can do ?

So yes our system is screwed up as screwed up as a system can be but you don't here one of the well saturated presidential candidates bring this to the floor because then they would have to point the finger at themselves , can't have that now can we .

[KillCapitalism]

54. If we had socialism, it would be better.

The almighty dollar wouldn't matter as much and ordinary folks would have a better chance at running for office. We should take note of the reforms going on in places like Venezuela and try to model ourselves after that.

[Hydra]

55. Don't worry, one way or another this will be over soon

Either the people will break the system, or the system will break the people.

Very simple. Almost elegant, until you get to to the breaking part.

A trapped animal will do anything to get free, and either the people or the system are currently cornered.

It's hard to tell which, IMO. We're scared of our gov't, and they are scared of us.

In the end though, only one will be standing tall when this is over.

[Prophet 451]

57. Who designed it?

A bunch of guys over two hundred years ago. Brilliant as they were, they were men of their time, they couldn't be expected to foresee warantless wiretapping or Diebold or... That's why they made provision for the revision of that system periodically. The problem is that they've been so deified by the electorate that the large-scale changes needed haven't come about.

[Madspirit]

64. k&r...n/t

[slick8790]

65. Find something better, and get back to me.

It's far from perfect, but it's the best we have right now. What would you prefer?

[Madspirit]

67. Oh Jeez

I have friends all over the world and most people think their own country is the best. Doesn't mean it is. There are lots of places, if I had the money, I would move to or at least have a second home in.

Don't be an arrogant American. Most people love their own country, their own home.
Lee

[KAZ]

72. No, it's the worst we've had in quite a while.

But don't let that stop your jingoisms. How about that Blake, huh?

[Madspirit]

66. We Are Totally a Backward Nation

We don't take care of our own. We are warlike, brutal, aggressive and perverse. We are imperialists and barbarians. We execute our own. Our prisons are barbaric and cruel, havens of rape and torture. Our streets are full of homeless people. Millions cannot afford adequate medical care. Our country is headed by a Theocrat. Religionists control our laws. We have one of the highest infant mortality rates of any Western nation.

We only define ourselves as a Modern Advanced Nation because we have more toys than anyone else. ...and we think things like having 400 brands and varieties of cereal to choose from is important.

We are so wrong.

I am deeply ashamed of our country.

Lee

[stuntcat]

76. "Millions cannot afford adequate medical care."

That says it.
Obviously Education needs a serious overhaul if so many of us think it's okay for some people to have better healthcare than others.

[Virginia Dare]

81. Because we are ruled by corporate consumerism..

and the obsession with all of our wants being rewarded immediately.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

69. just remove the Executive branch

and let let the branch grow slowly back when it is purged of all corruption

Have a Prime Minister no President

[Hawkowl]

71. YES!

I've been thinking this exact same thing. Eliminate the executive branch. There really is no need. The rest of the world does fine with a parlimentary system.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

73. and at least take away the executive privilege

I'm not sure why exec priv is in existence. It only serves to cover up crimes. Also pardons should be eliminated because it would appear that this is mainly to let criminals off the hook.

[Virginia Dare]

83. There is absolutely no good reason why the taxpayers should be supporting..

political operatives in the White House.

[farmboxer]

75. "Real campaign finance reform is the only chance

of getting "We The People" back into power. The corporations own Amerika (The Fourth Reich)there is not other way.

I like Kucinich, he seems to be working for the people and not the corporations. We the people are simply subhuman to most of our politicians.

[Blue_Tires]

77. very true

the days of low-funded outsiders getting into a high political office are long gone

[porphyrian]

82. The system's fine when people do their fucking job to support it.

For most of my life, less than half of the voting population has been bothered to even vote. If we let assholes in, then stand by as they systematically disassemble it from the inside, we get what we asked for.

[Virginia Dare]

84. I think this is by design as well (once again the corporate media)..

they perpetuate and nurture the idea that all politicians are corrupt, and that it's futile to get involved in the political process.

[porphyrian]

85. I don't doubt it. - n/t

[undergroundpanther]

86. What the founders NEVER anticipated was a kakistocracy

kakistocracy

kak·is·toc·ra·cy

Noun:Inflected forms: pl. kak·is·toc·ra·cies
Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens.

Etymology:
Greek kakistos, worst, superlative of kakos, bad; see caco– + –cracy.

In other words the worst of shit heads humanity has are in the Whitehouse..The US government is being destroyed by a bunch of sociopaths.

Time for all liberals to realize we are not dealing with rational,ethical people anymore when we deal with neocons or theocracies.The neocon fascist/theocracy have taken over the GOP. This is because of a big unseen problem found with certain types of relationships with certain types of personalities.Too many people demonstrate a destructive personality type that is more somewhere along the spectrum of narcissism/authoritarian/controlling or a conduct disorders.
Their ego defenses really do interfere with their own sense of ethics."entitlement" and their lack of capacity for insight,honesty and empathy with others.

This charismatic bullying type of persona or it's flip side the true believer obedient one(enablers) can be found in varying degrees of severity in most people. But it's the 1 in 4 problem people out of our entire population who are DEFINED by these disgusting traits that are the worst offenders and when they socialize themselves they can through charisma deceit and trickery, they insulate themselves with P.R. and enablers they will strive to appear like a hometown Joe,conning through twisting boundaries and trust, appearing normal as they reach for and grab power for themselves and they will abuse that power to hurt other people and dominate them.

Our fucked up government is a kakistocracy.

[truedelphi]

88. And behind this kakistosocracy is the Banking System that

Goes by the misnomer of the Federal Reserve.

To keep us perpetually in debt we must have perpetual war.

[undergroundpanther]

89. Yep.

Fucking pigs.