What is wrong with the people in this country ?

[blues90]

I am only coming here from the use of common sense and from what I see right now .

We all know the US has had sanctions on Iraq for 12 years before their horrid attack on Iraq called Shock and Awe , a really sick title if ever one could be found . A country that poised no threat to us at all .

Many of us with good reason question the events of 9/11 and will probably never know the truth however having doubts will have to do for now .

Besides all of the needless death and destruction , beside all the lies and criminal acts what troubles me the most is that we continue to allow this to go on .

Just to watch and listen to the confirmation of this Muller just confirmed and made me realize just what a sick country this is .

Just to hear the talk about war and the future of wars and the fat ignorenet men sitting on their fat rear ends talking about more weapons and strategy , how long this occuption will go on never calling it an occupation .

Even to leave out all the failures right here in the US including the latest , the infrastructure , I look and listen and the only word that comes to mind is ignorence , or arrogance . They sit and talk as if this is normal and acceptable to go on this way . Here we are bombing and killing and stealing all in the name of oil and investments and our illegal corporate interests .

We all must know this has never been about 9/11 or spreading democracy or freedom . what the hell do we know about freedom or democracy , we have the illusion of it but do we really have anything more than a well supported killing machine in name and mission only ?

And here we are a year ahead with campaigns for the next presidential hopeful as if this is the answer rather than the distraction .

People are so full of shit in this country , so easily lead and trained to follow they don't even think for themselves unless it is to their benefit .

Anyone here can bash me or offer up some none-sense and feel free to do so .

My only hope is that people see just where we are headed and then once we can gather in force do something about it . A politician is a complete stranger as are all the forces behind this admin , on any given day would you put your life in the hands of a stranger and if so why ?

[Gregorian]

1. They're comfortably numb.

Pick an issue. Any issue. I usually look no further than the automobile for my inspiration.

[Peace Patriot]

2. I think you ask the wrong question. It's not "what's wrong with the people

in this country?" It's, "what has been done by the political establishment to demoralize, disempower, and, above all, DISENFRANCHISE them?"

SEVENTY PERCENT of the American people oppose the Iraq War and want it ended. They vote. Nothing happens. Back at the beginning of the war, 56%--a significant majority--opposed it. They were ignored. In fact, the war profiteering corporate news monopolies made it seem as if the majority supported it--one of the chief fascist demoralization tactics. Five rightwing billionaire CEOs control all news and opinion on the public airwaves. They act in concert to promote certain illusions. That was a big one--that the majority supported the war. There are many others, contrived by relentless, 24/7 fascist propaganda and war mongering, or by 'black-holing' certain news items and never permitting wide spectrum political discussion.

The American people are like a battered wife, who keeps trying to recover her sense of self-worth, after each beating. It takes a while to destroy her natural defenses and inner strengths. A spirited woman will eventually leave, seek shelter. Others become bruised punching bags, who lose the will to fight--and if they are not rescued, may end up dead.

I think the American people are in the former category--the battered wife who still has spirit. Their rather amazing resistance to war propaganda, and their repeated efforts to "throw the bums out" in elections, tells me that democracy is still alive and well, here, and there is still much hope that this situation can be turned around.

One of the worst things that the political establishment has done to us is their conversion of our vote counting system to electronic voting machines, run on 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations, with virtually no audit/recount controls. This WAS the fascist coup, in my opinion. It was done in October 2002, by the Anthrax Congress--the same month they passed the Iraq War Resolution. The one, the IWR, guaranteed an unjust, heinous war. The other--the so-called "Help America Vote Act"--provided the means to shove this unjust, heinous war down the throats of the peace-minded, justice-minded American majority.

The political establishment was well aware of that 56% opposition to the war, early on, even if the war profiteering corporate news monopolies muffled that data, and created the opposite illusion. They knew that opposition would only grow, as it has--now up to a staggering 70%. They knew they would need a means to control election results, beyond all the other means they already had. Thus, it was arranged to fast-track these election theft machines all over the country, and conduct the vote count in 2004 under a veil of corporate secrecy.

That was the first big test of this election theft system. But it wasn't, and won't be, the last. The 2006 elections were also conducted in completely non-transparent conditions, with about a third of the country's votes having NO AUDITABILITY AT ALL (no recount possible, no "paper trail"), the rest having miserably inadequate auditing, and the whole "tabulated" with "trade secret" code--code so secret that not even our secretaries of state are permitted to review it. Code OWNED AND CONTROLLED by RIGHTWING BUSHITE corporations.

So, what money couldn't buy, in 2006, Diebold/ES&S produced by means of secret vote tabulation--a pro-war Congress, with a "D" by its name, in a country where 70% of the people oppose the war.

The "D" by its name was clever--a way to lull the voters long enough to get ANOTHER $100 BILLION in war money into Bush/Cheney's hands, to keep killing Iraqis until they sign over their oil rights to U.S. oil companies.

You'll notice, however--quite below the radar, except on leftist (majorityist) blogs--that Congress' approval rating on the war now stands at 3%.

3%! And our Democratic Party leaders couldn't give a fuck what we think, just like the Bushites. They are not beholden to us any more. They are beholden to Diebold and ES&S, and the fascist agenda.

People ARE fighting back. Witness the tremendous election reform movement in California, that got Debra Bowen elected Secretary of State--a clear case of the people outvoting the machines. She is now really going after these election theft corporations, and the corrupt county election officials who have sold out to them. It is magnificent! And there are signs of life, like this, everywhere.

Restoring our democracy is going to be a long hard battle. Our democracy was not destroyed in a day. And it is not going to be rebuilt in day. But I see many evidences that the AMERICAN PEOPLE are massively fed up, and that many, many courageous and patriotic lovers of democracy are stepping up, in many ways. Just think of how different today is, from three years ago, in the darkest hours of the invasion year. Many people know what's going on. Many people are fighting back--some of them with truly impressive courage.

So, Blues90, do you tell a battered wife that she is useless, that she doesn't fight hard enough, that something's wrong with her? Do you pile on the demoralization and disempowerment that she already suffers? Or do you give her the tools and practical help to get out of her nightmare?

Vote counting that everyone can see and understand is the MAIN TOOL that the American people need to turn this around. The conversion to "trade secret" vote counting was THE most 'black-holed' news story of the last four years (and possibly the most important news story in our history, bar none). People are very suspicious of the machines, but many don't have much info on them, because of the 'black-holing' of this critically important news story (by the corporate news monopolies, by BOTH parties, and by corrupted election officials). In the last elections, there was evidence of a voter boycott of the machines--a big increase in Absentee Ballot voting, as voters tried to get around the rigged machines. But many don't know that AB votes are often just scanned into the rigged electronics, with no human eyes and hands ever upon them, counting them. A paper ballot merely provides a MEANS for counting; it doesn't provide hand counting, unless a hand count is mandated. The people can also outvote the machines, in some cases--where Diebold/ES&S and brethren don't want to reveal overly suspicious-looking totals.

The problem is, though, that they can rig the election OVERALL. They may let a real peoples' candidate win in one place, but then, in two others places, they rig the election for a pro-war Dem in the primaries, or for a Bushite in the Republican primary, and then pick and choose among D or R fascist candidates, to produce an OVERALL pro-war, fascist Congress--in this case, with a "D" by its name. Thus, the people can never get any traction--can never elect a majority in Congress that sees to their interests.

This is what we MUST change. "Trade secret" vote counting is not the only thing wrong with our election system. But it is the democracy-killer. It adds to the final 'coup de grace' to a system that is already stacked against the interests of the majority. We can out-fundraise the fascists. We can outvote them. We, the peace-loving, justice-loving American people are the overwhelming majority in this country (born out by many other polls, not just on the war). We can extensively monitor the polling places. But we cannot win, overall, if we cannot see HOW the votes are counted.

Don't badger the American people. Empower them! Help get them restore their right to vote! This has to be done at the state/local level, where ordinary people still have some influence--a long, difficult, complex, grass roots campaign, all over the country, in every jurisdiction, when looked at from the overall national perspective--but a relatively simple matter, for YOU, down at your local county registrar's office, or in your state capitol.

We want vote counting that everyone can see and understand. Period. Use machines, don't use machines. The main count must be VISIBLE. And (to your county registrar, for instance): "I'm going to see that you get fired if you don't produce a VISIBLE vote count."

I'm with you on the fat old men blathering on, in Congressional hearings, and all over the corporate news monopolies, to the point of endless war. It's sickening, truly. But that is a SYMPTOM of the rigged vote counting. And it cannot be remedied--for instance, by "fairness doctrine" regulation of our PUBLIC airwaves--until we have restored the foundation of this (and every) democracy: transparent vote counting.

That is our main POWER. We need to think strategically, in terms of POWER. That's how you help a battered wife. That's how you help the American people. Help them get their POWER back!

[blues90]

5. I understand all of that , my problem is this

Yes the people protested against the Iraq attack , but they did not go far enough , it should have been as long as it takes not just a few days .

Beside this we knew the elections were stolen and yet settled with these black box machines instead of saying no way is this right . Look waht happened in Georgia in 2002 . This was the test .


also most people were in this state of panic and fear from 9/11 and bought into this war , I for one was shocked about 9/11 but I was not held by fear , I became more suspicious of the entire time and the attack on Iraq with people riding in their cars full flagged all set for the attack without considering the reality .

We allowed this to get to this point . The battered wife deal must be in reference to the Dems , well they should have been angry and fought back instead of giving into bushs desires . Alot of these battered wifes are men too . The women seem to have more fight as I see it .

Voting is a big part but I do feel we could have been more proactive and perhaps we would not be where we are now , now it's so much worse and the damage has spread out far and wide and it will take decades to even begin to turn this around .

I just don't have enough faith in politicians , not after their track record to this point . After all the people need to take some control and not rely on only politics .

And here we are doing it again , many rave about certain candidates , lets be a bit more causious and not take people at their word .

Why should we settle for what is offered as the best of the best when it's all based on money ?

[Kip Humphrey]

7. Well said, Peace Patriot (as usual)

[NJCher]

9. hadn't thought about engineering the election to pro-war Dems

That was indeed a very smart move.

Excellent post, PeacePatriot. I do believe you are correct about giving the people the tools. I was listening to an interview with an activist who is educating people on electronic machines and she told many stories of individual actions all over the country. Some of them were very clever and creative. She said all the people need is a little direction and once they have that, there is no turning back.



Cher

[QC]

11. Great post!

This really should be its own thread.

[Rageneau]

3. This is the direct result of the MSM keeping liberals out of the debate.

A glance at the obnoxious power of the Freepers and the Creepers on the right reveals how much more passionate and organized that side seems to be. The reason for that is that they have leaders who regularly appear (and reappear and reappear) in the media, constantly sprewing the same approved GOP line.

We have nothing like that on the left. The MSM does not allow our persuasive representatives to appear in public. Instead, we get phoney democrats like Estrich, Cadell, Gergen, even Dick Morris.

IOW, except for the fact of the Internet, almost all of us on the political left could feel absolutely alone in our viewpoints -- isolated from and different from everyone else. And that's no accident.

It's hard to organize a resistance when you think you're the only resister.

Saying it again -- for the 500th time -- it is the corporate (GOP) control of the media, not the GOP itself, that is our biggest enemy.

[blues90]

6. No argument here

[stillcool]

4. You know...I only became aware...

of what this country has been doing because of the internet. I've read my ass off in the last several years. Most people do not have the time, or the energy that is necessary to get any kind of a grip on reality. Even spreading the word...one person at a time...is a process. My mind has been blown repeatedly. The awarenesses have rocked my world, time and time again. It's nothing you can spit out over coffee. And, people when first confronted with this kind of information are over-whelmed with a feeling of powerlessness. I know I was. We here, who have been fortunate enough to have the time, and the inclination, need to be vigilant in passing it on, as best we can. This did not happen over night, and nor will the solution. Planting seeds that all is not well, and where to go for information seems pretty necessary for the kind of organization that will be necessary to force change.

[sanskritwarrior]

8. From my perspective

not a damn thing. now if you want to talk about Saudi Arabia and its screwed up people, I'm so there........

[Tesha]

10. Ignorance. Religion. Ignorance. Meth. Nascar. And did I mention Ignorance?

Ignorance. Religion. Ignorance. Meth. Ignorance.
Racism. Ignorance. Misogyny. Ignorance. Homophobia.
Ignorance. Nascar. And did I mention Ignorance?

Tesha