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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:31 PM
Original message
Remember when Dems had real leaders
Edited on Mon Aug-06-07 08:36 PM by OzarkDem
I do, and admit I always assumed it would continue. But the quality of Democratic leaders in DC has gradually eroded until we have such a stunning contrast between leaders of today and those of the Watergate Era.

If Sen. Sam Ervin were alive today, what would he think? Would he even recognize his own party? How would he feel about the way his own party's leaders gutted the law he helped establish - FISA?



Senator Ervin made a deep impact on American history through his work on two separate committees at the beginning and ending of his career that were critical in bringing down two powerful opponents: Senator Joe McCarthy in 1954 and President Richard M. Nixon in 1974. The Senate Select Committee to Investigate Campaign Practices, which investigated Watergate, was popularly known as the "Ervin Committee."

He got his start in investigative matters, even before Watergate, when in January 1970 it was revealed by Christopher Pyle, an investigator for Ervin's Judiciary Subcommittee on Constitutional Rights, that the U.S. Army was performing domestic investigations on the civilian population. Ervin's further investigations on the matter over the following years, together with the Church Committee inquiries, led to passage of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (after Ervin had left office).

Ervin gained lasting fame through his stewardship of the Senate Select Committee to Investigate Campaign Practices, also known as the Senate Watergate Committee, from the 1972 presidential election.

Edit for link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Ervin

Recall the days when anti-war activists knew they could still rely on a southern conservative Democrat to protect their rights. Back then we really did think that once these crimes were exposed and laws like FISA passed that we wouldn't have to worry about our own government spying on us again. Its inconceivable to me that my party leaders now allow their members in Congress to roll back those changes.

http://www.cmhpf.org/senator%20sam%20ervin.htm

"For the past four years, the U.S. Army has been closely watching civilian political activity within the United States." So charged Christopher H. Pyle, a former intelligence officer, in the January 1970 edition of Washington Monthly. <1> Pyle's account of military spies snooping on law‑abiding citizens and recording their actions in secret government computers sent a shudder through the nation's press. Images from George Orwell's novel 1984 of Big Brother and the thought police filled the newspapers. Public alarm prompted the Senate Subcommittee on Consti­tutional Rights, chaired by Senator Sam Ervin of North Carolina, to investigate. For more than a year, Ervin struggled against a cover‑up to get to the bottom of the surveillance system. Frustrated by the Nixon Administration's misleading statements, claims of inherent executive powers, and refusals to disclose information on the basis of national security, the Senator called for public hearings in 1971 to examine "the dangers the Army's program presents to the principles of the Constitution."<2>

Sam Ervin, the "ol' country lawyer" from Morganton, intended his hearings to focus on the narrow topic of how the Army's domestic surveillance of American civilians threatened civil liberties. He wanted to illustrate some "down home truths" about how the federal government should never trample on his beloved Constitution or endanger the privacy rights of individual Americans. But the Senator found himself engaged in an extended public debate with the Nixon administration over one of the central questions of the American political experience--a question that has recently taken on a renewed significance since the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon--how to balance the constitutional rights of the individual with the national security needs of the state.
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. And, frankly, even though he was running interference for Nixon...
... Howard Baker had a level of decency and honesty about him that you'd have a tough time finding on the other side of the aisle anymore.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Even then they were concerned
about what they called "data banks" of information being compiled about private citizens. FISA was supposed to put an end to it.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Can you imagine if the panty-sniffing 'pubs of today were around then?
Let's face it. Many liberals sow their oats while they are young and grow up, unlike the locked-in-the-closet perverted hypocrites who make up much of the Republican party. That is a lot of garbage for the panty-sniffers to dig up. That eliminates a lot of good liberals who would otherwise run for office.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. That's a really good point
I'd never thought of it quite that way, but you're right. I still can't believe everyone made a big deal over Clinton smoking marijuana in college, then ignored Bush's many years of substance abuse and addiction.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
35. republicans suck, but at least they stick together!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. I certainly long for some leaderfuckingship!
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Jack Bone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Look!! isn't that Fred Thompson sitting next to Sen Baker?
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yes he is
Ervin didn't allow an bs shenanigans from the GOP on his committee.
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I can't decide whether Thompson looks more like...
George Wallace or Rip Torn in that photo.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. no dem today supports segregation
Edited on Mon Aug-06-07 08:45 PM by Enrique
I consider that an improvement over the "good old days."
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. He opposed prayer in public schools
and help stop legislation to make it compulsory.

He was a strict supporter of the Constitution who later changed his mind on desegregation.

Today we have Dem leaders who were willing to give away the civil rights of all Americans regardless of race. I guess that makes them equal opportunity cowards.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
34. he pandered to his racist constituency most of his career
hardly a profile in courage.

But his racist credentials did give him some credibility with conservatives when it came around to impeachment time, so maybe there was a silver lining.
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. The Dems do have REAL LEADERS............
but THEY are not the corporate backed front runners that are ALWAYS getting the microphone.
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vssmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
10. I miss Hubert Humphrey
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. "public alarm prompted"
Sounds like we had an informed citizenry egging these leaders on and having their backs.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Not immediately
Christopher Pyle is the one who first alerted Ervin and others in Congress to the domestic spying programs the Army was running. The anti war activists suspected or even knew they were being spied upon, but no one in the mainstream was listening to them until Pyle came forward.

Of course we did have a better news media back then, one that wasn't completely compromised by corporate owners.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Now all we have are Propaganda
promoters. And something else...there was no cable during Watergate. If you had TV on at 5-7:00 pm, you were watching REAL NEWS. People were more informed. Damn do I miss Walter Cronkite.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. Here's a good one:

Kerry in 1992 presided over a Senate probe of the Bank of Credit and Commerce International. The inquiry had led him to call 84-year-old Clark Clifford to testify, angering fellow Democrats.

(Why because he was 84? Aren't there a few 80-year-old plus Senators? Or was it because they didn't want the truth to get out?)

The Oliver North File


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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Should he replace Reid?
Edited on Mon Aug-06-07 08:59 PM by OzarkDem
Has he been speaking out about this? Will he not cave under pressure from Bush & Rove? Would he run interference for Leahy?
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I remembered and admired Kerry for this
Good God, what happened to him?

Perhaps Jawn met a less violent fate than did Mark Lombardi, who "diagrammed" BCCI?

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I think it was
people like you who never miss a Kerry post to offer snark that makes no sense! The Senator is still one of the finest leaders on protecting the Constitution (leading the attempt to filibuster Alito); setting a deadline to get out of Iraq; pushing for government transparency; and fighting for small business owners, Veterans, children, seniors, and even baseball fans.

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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. You forgot walking away from an election he KNEW was stolen...
Truth is in the action, not the rhetoric.
BHN
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. You forgot
truth:

Blogged by JC on 08.22.05 @ 04:19 PM ET

Fighting for Every Voter

A few more words about an issue that is of the utmost importance to me.

As political candidates, we spend considerable time and effort every election cycle fighting for votes. After the election, whether won or lost, many candidates leave the irregularities of the election behind. But we owe the voters more than that. When voters are disenfrachised, we owe it to them to seek justice and expose the truth. That is why I have been so proud of the Kerry-Edwards campaign's ongoing involvement in the investigation and litigation of what went wrong in Ohio. I wrote to the candidates recently to ask that they continue to be involved in this important endeavor.

This is not about the past. It is about figuring out what went wrong and why -- and then getting the next election right, not for the Democratic Party, but for all of the voters.

more



Like I said, some people never miss an opportunity to continue to distort!

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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Thanks so much for your unbiased observation.
Too bad you can't accurately explain why a spokesman for Vietnam Veterans Against the War could turn around and vote to support an equally (if not more so) illegal war.

A shame you feel the need to attack me for "snarking." Given that you appear to read most (if not all) of my "anti-Kerry" posts, you must know that like Kerry once was, I still am a liberal, and so it hurts me deeply to see someone "liberal" reject his fundamental principles. For what? To get elected? For the record, he was elected, but he did a very bad job of defending his position. ProSense, you and I probably share more in common than you are willing to admit. But few things rival the wrath of an ardent supporter who feels as though he's been betrayed.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. "could turn around and vote to support an equally (if not more so) illegal war."
I can because statement like that are utter BS, see.

I don't believe ardent supporters jump in and push crap at every opportunity. Kerry never one rejected his principles so forgive me if I disagree with you.


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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Lombardi- another "suicide' for getting to close to the TRUTH.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Lombardi

DUers if you are not aware of this person, PLEASE do learn more.
Thanks RufusTFirefly, for posting his art on this thread.

BHN
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. J H Hatfield
Reminded me of his "suicide" after writing "Fortunate Son"

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/18/1643204

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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Gary Webb...suicide by TWO??? shots to his head?
Edited on Mon Aug-06-07 10:51 PM by BeHereNow
The list is endless.
BHN
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. And lest we forget .... Danny Casolaro
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Like I said upthread- the list is endless.
Getting in the way of "the wheel" pretty much assures
that you will be eliminated.
BHN
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. I own Hatfield's book
(re-published by Soft Skull)
It's surprisingly sympathetic.

In fact, one of two instances in my life where I've actually sympathized with Dubya came in that book. His response as a child in reaction to the death of his sister was heart-wrenching. My heart leaped out to him. (Silly me.) The other instance was when Christopher Hitchens tried to trash Dubya because he was/is dyslexic. I'm not personally dyslexic, but I oppose anyone who bad-mouths a candidate simply because s/he is dyslexic.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
23. Like we do NOW & in the FUTURE?!1 Wexler, Frank, Shumer, Debbie, Waxman, Conyers, Rangel,
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. The ones that count
are Reid, Pelosi, Hoyer, et al. All the good works of Conyers and Leahy have been undermined by their leaders.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Eh, the ones who "count" are those who don't UNDERMINE!!1 n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
25. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 06:21 AM
Response to Original message
36. Sam Ervin is an interesting
example. Up until the Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities began its hearings, which we think of today as the Watergate investigation, I do not think Ervin would have been thought of highly by many DUers. But when history called, he answered, and today many of us choose to overlook the sum total of his politics before those hearings.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
37. Indeed.
He'd probably be appalled by all of those uppity negroes. Jesus Christ, Ervin is a perfect example of why different opinions should be tolerated within the party!
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
38. my personal favorite Democratic leader
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. who is it?
I can guess the decade, but I'm not familiar with the face.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. here you go....
Senator Mike Gravel

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/02/1331255

Monday, July 2nd, 2007
How the Pentagon Papers Came to be Published by the Beacon Press: A Remarkable Story Told by Whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, Dem Presidential Candidate Mike Gravel and Unitarian Leader Robert West

Thirty-five years ago this weekend, Beacon Press lost a Supreme Court case brought against it by the US government for publishing the first full edition of the Pentagon Papers. It is now well known how the New York Times first published excerpts of the top-secret documents in June 1971. But less well known is how the Beacon Press - a small, nonprofit publisher affiliated with the Unitarian Universalist Association - came to publish the complete 7,000 pages that exposed the true history of U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Their publication led the Press into a spiral of two and a half years of harassment, intimidation, near-bankruptcy, and the possibility of criminal prosecution.

Today, we hear the story from three men at the center of the storm: Former Pentagon and RAND Corporation analyst, famed whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg who leaked the Pentagon Papers to the New York Times. Mike Gravel - the former Alaska Senator who is now a Democratic Presidential candidate - who tells the dramatic story of how he entered the Pentagon Papers into the Congressional record and got them to the Beacon Press. And Robert West, the former president of the Unitarian Universalist Association which owned the Press and agreed to risk publication of the Pentagon Papers.

This is a story that has rarely been told in its entirety. Last weekend I moderated an event at the Unitarian Universalist conference in Portland, Oregon commemorating the publication of the Pentagon Papers and its relevance today.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
39. I think they had more of a grasp of the rules of Congress than the present bunch
It could be that we've lost that expertise over the years, or it's been whittled away by time and age, like with Bob Byrd.
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