What is the best response to the "Bush listens to his generals" line?

[GOTV]

I mean without picking a fight or insulting the person using the line. If Bush can point to an General in Iraq right now that says "We should do X" and so W asks congress for authorization to do X, it puts congress in a difficult position.

I assume the argument is something like: "Bush fires the generals that don't agree with him", but can I prove it?

Or are there better arguments?

[hobbit709]

1. Just this

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[jedicord]

2. Bush listens to his generals...

and then ignores them. Then he finds one who will say what he wants him to say.

[pinto]

3. The surge plan came from an AEI think tank not the oft-cited generals on the ground.

[rpannier]

4. Turn the answer around

Yeah he listens to the one's he doesn't fire for contradicting him

[bryant69]

5. Bush listens to the generals who tell him what he wants to hear

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[GOTV]

15. Is your link supposed to reference this topic? Or is it just your sig?

[bryant69]

16. just my signature - i'm what they call a blogwhore. n/t

[bigtree]

6. Generals will always find a 'way forward' on the battlefield,

. . . but it should be the determination of our civilian leadership - which carries their mandate directly from the American people - just who our forces will be tasked with laying down their lives to defend or fight against; not the military.


my take:

Bush and his generals substituting their judgment for the American peoples' in Iraq
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_ron_full_070618_bush_and_his_general.htm

[Xipe Totec]

7. General Eric K. Shinseki

If Bush had listened to this general, we wouldn't be in this mess now.

February 28, 2003

"Mr. Wolfowitz, the deputy defense secretary, opened a two-front war of words on Capitol Hill, calling the recent estimate by Gen. Eric K. Shinseki of the Army that several hundred thousand troops would be needed in postwar Iraq, "wildly off the mark." Pentagon officials have put the figure closer to 100,000 troops. Mr. Wolfowitz then dismissed articles in several newspapers this week asserting that Pentagon budget specialists put the cost of war and reconstruction at $60 billion to $95 billion in this fiscal year. He said it was impossible to predict accurately a war's duration, its destruction and the extent of rebuilding afterward"


http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/attack/consequences/2003/0228pentagoncontra.htm

[GOTV]

13. Ok, but could one counter that he's learned his lesson and is listening to his generals now?

Because he does have generals saying they want him to do what he's doing right?

[Xipe Totec]

23. He would have to admit he was wrong before

that's not going to happen.

[GOTV]

24. I really thinking of an argument against regular people, not Bush himself.....

... Bush might not admit mistakes but someone else might say, as they do, there were screwu ps in the past but we are where we are and from here Bush is listening to the generals.

I feel there must be a good counter argument for that but I can't find it.

[maddezmom]

8. he may listen but he's not hearing what they are saying

:shrug:

[progressive_realist]

9. Bush fires his generals as often as...

We kill or capture the #3 guy in Al-Qaeda. :evilgrin:

[spanone]

10. he listens to the generals that agree with him. otherwise he fires them.

[TheCowsCameHome]

11. But he doesn't understand anything not printed in a book like "My pet goat"

[Ganja Ninja]

12. He listens to his Generals and he fires the ones that tell him what

he doesn't want to hear.

[GOTV]

14. Ok, I've heard that argument, but are their particulars somewhere

to reference if someone thinks that's just a liberal talking point?

[radfringe]

17. Bush listens to generals

and if he doesn't like what he hears - he fires them.

[Ian_rd]

18. There are plenty of Generals who have resigned and then criticized Bush.

Until a few months ago, it seemed like the first thing a general did after resigning their post was to run to the New York Times and write an op-ed about how Bush is screwing up Iraq. I don't have a handy list in front of me, but you could certainly search the net for them (google something like "general bush iraq strategy" and variations thereof).

I'm sure Bush does to his generals, but only those that tell him exactly what he wants to hear. And if enough are weeded out through frustration and being pushed out, the logical result will be an Army run by Bush sycophants. Maybe we have this now, or maybe another general will resign and blow the whistle. Bush saying he listens to his generals is not only a lie, but it's just another tool for him to blame someone else for his colossal failures.

[Karmageddon]

19. The generals are supposed to listen to the "civilian" leadership, not vice versa

It was intentionally set up that way, where the civilian leadership (Congress declares war, prez is commander in chief, etc). That way the military can't "drive" the government. The President is not supposed to listen to his generals, they are supposed to listen to him, and to Congress, and follow through with the decisions made by the citizenry, for the benefit of the citizenry.

As for the generals he allegedly listens to... as so many before have said, he listens to the ones who tell him what he wants to hear. The rest get to "resign to spend time with their families". You can often see/hear them on talk shows or commercials condemning the execution of the quagmire.

[krispos42]

20. Bush smiles and nods in all the right places

It's the illusion of listening. Remember, General Petraeus' own anti-insurgency manual calls for a ratio of troops to population four times what we currently have.

So Bush has the troop levels at ¼ what the book says we need.

The Republicans refuse to do what is needed to pacify Iraq because of political concerns here in the US. They refuse to do what is needed to 'win' (massive draft, war taxes, partial nationalization of the defense industry) so we will obviously not. They also refuse to admit that, absent of doing what is needed to pacify Iraq we need to withdraw militarily and pursue other means. So they are hoping survise this politically delaying while transferring blame to the Democrats.



That's what's called "listening to the generals on the ground". He only hears what fits into his politically-correct bubble of unreality.

[sinkingfeeling]

21. The list of the ones he's fired because they expressed an opinion he didn't like.

[shadowknows69]

22. Only the ones that still work for you

and apparently they're as big a bunch of idiots when it comes to military strategy as you and Cheney are. How can all these world conquering idiots ignore simple the simple lessons taught by hundreds of years of bad military blunders. Custer's last stand and Vietnam spring immediately to mind. The Green Zone is looking like a little doomed fort in the distant past of Texas too lately.

[helderheid]

25. Until they disagree with him and then he fires them and hires new ones. n/t

[NashVegas]

26. He Needs New Generals

...

[NashVegas]

27. "Maybe He Should Listen to His Accountants"

even better.

[BOSSHOG]

28. Then why didn't he listen to General SHINSEKI

in 2002 who told him that a helluva lot more troops were needed to do what he wanted to do? (The General has been proven right every day for the past 4 years.) bush ignored General SHINSEKI who was the Senior Officer in the United States Army at the time. bush listens to his generals like limbaugh tells the truth, and no doubt you are an ignorant jerkoff constitution hating prick so you also think limbaugh tells the truth.

Will that do?

[bridgit]

29. Still like the Jim Stafford (Spiders & Snakes, songwriter guy) line when asked on the old...

Johnny Carson Show, Johnny asks him about the little town he comes from,

"Do they get TV there in your town?"

"Oh! They 'get it', they just don't understand it."

I see a lot of g.w. bush in that i.e. "Bush 'listens' to his generals on the ground. He just doesn't understand what they're saying." :dunce:

[Beelzebud]

30. Until they say something he doesn't want to hear, then they retire, and a new yes-man comes in.

[Squatch]

31. "Right before he fires them"

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

32. General Mills, General Dynamics, General Motors

[InternalDialogue]

33. Dan Froomkin, Washington Post: "How Bush Uses His Generals"

Not comprehensive, but illustrative and concise.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/07/16/BL2007071600891_pf.html

[GOTV]

35. Thank you! This is the kind of thing I was looking for.

[hunter]

34. Generals??? Oh dear, I thought you said GENITALS!

:silly:

No point in not picking a fight. You are not going to get anywhere with the premise.