" Wiretapping powers expanded" - Msgbd replies - "Richard101, you are a first-class Dick!"

[Breeze54]

These are a couple of response that were posted on my local newspapers messageboard,
concerning the spy on you anytime law that just passed in the house and senate.
The whole thread is amazing! If you get a chance, you should read through it. ;)

Wiretapping powers expanded
Authored by: BostonDotCom

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Posted by richard101 on Aug-6 6:00 PM

If what you say is true then where are the abuses of our civil liberties? They are all imagined which is the definition of paranoia. JUst because you think Bush has lied about other things and that he is lying now, I'd rather go on some facts.

THe facts are that no one has lost any civl liberties except Jose Padilla. The terrorist attacks are real.

Your objections are all based on political points of view and supposition rather than facts. Are people being arrested illegally? Are there people that are charged with domestic crimes based upon evidence gathered in one of these warrantless searches?

NO.

You are in LALA land.

Response to: Richard101-Real Man of Genius, Budweiser Salutes YOU!

I am loathe to even get into a conversation with you, because as your name implies Richard101, you are a first-class Dick.
But you asked the question and so I am going to answer it. Has any innocent person been hurt by this illegal spying? Yes. ME.

In Aug. 2005, I was working as a freelance editor for a news agency that had reporters in the UK. I received email from UK journalists and had to edit and post news online within a short time frame (2 hours). One day my email from the UK did not arrive in my Verizon email inbox. I called the UK and found that Yes, it had been sent. After several attempts at resending the email to me, the journalist had to find someone else to do my work that day since it was obvious I wasn't going to meet my deadline.

So I called Verizon and was told that my email was being held by order of the dept of Homeland Security (I kid you not!). I had to fill out a WhiteList form and get the people I correspond with overseas to also fill out the form before I can receive email from them. In a panic I did so, giving Verizon/the government lots of personal information. This was in 2005, before anyone else was talking about govt. spying. I then received my email from the UK about four hours later.... Too late to get paid that day.

I thought the issue was dead. But it happened again. I resorted to using Hotmail, which apparently the terrorists don't know about (or homeland security doesn't know about) because there was no delay in receiving my Hotmail. However, the formatting of the documents thru Hotmail was an issue for the UK journalists and so they decided to stop using my services in favor of someone who wasn't being hassled by the US govt.

You would think that would be the end of the story. But a couple of months later, I had a problem getting Verizon email again and had to fill out another WhiteList paper and ask another company I was freelancing for to fill out the WhiteList form-- this company was in New York. I am in Boston. Same Country, SEE?

So how does this affect me? I think you right-wingers are all for people earning an honest living and pulling themselves up by their boot-straps and all that crap, but when the govt randomly decides that an American stay-at-home Mom trying to earn a living is some sort of "threat" and prevents her from earning her measly freelance paycheck-- Dick, We Have a Problem.

Now I don't know about you, but I am pretty sure that life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are worth standing up for. A lot of you Chickenhawks just want to curl up in the corner and die everytime the Bush boogeyman screams "TERRA!" But I've got kids and I am not raising them just so that they can live in fear.

Right now it is my paycheck that is affected. Maybe I'm on a no-fly list. Maybe they'll listen in and hear me complain to my mother-in-law in the UK that I hate the government. Does that make me a terrorist? What happens when it affects YOU somehow? THEN does it become a problem? The trouble with people like you, Dick, is that as long as you're OK, you don't think there's a problem. Look up the poem, "First they came..." If someday they decide to come for you, Richard101, you'll be looking for the ACLU (just like the druggie Rush Limbot), and you better hope they are still around and not all wearing orange at Gitmo.

Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. LALA Land, Indeed.

[Subdivisions]

1. Too-fucking-shay!!! K&R n/t

[Liberal In Texas]

2. Good story. Kick/Rec.

[InternalDialogue]

3. I'm in love with that woman. K&R.

Brava, lady! Bra-fucking-va!

:kick:

[annabanana]

4. Kick.. That "If Im notdoing anything wrong, I don't mind" crap

drives me crazy.

[lostnotforgotten]

5. Excellent!

eom

[Breeze54]

6. Another Gem from Richard101 (aka Dick) ... lmao!

Posted by richard101 on 11:18 AM

If the abuse is not apparent, is there any abuse? :crazy:

If someone puts a video camera in your bathroom and has video of you and your family in the bathroom to get their jollies and you never know, are your rights being abused? Let's say yes. If you and no one else but the videographer knows about it, what is the harm? None because you don't know and nothing ever happend from it.

What is the difference between having a camera in your room and not knowing it if nothing ever happens and not having a camera in your bathroom. NOTHING. Unless you are paranoid.

There could be one in your bathroom right now. Are you going to look for it just because I planted the idea in your head? I hope not.

The point is that when you are putting this much knowledge and power into the hands of a very few and putting in place no effective oversight, then you are leaving it up to their discretion how they use it.

Let's say you are right and there is no effective oversight. These powers have been in the hands of the Executive Branch for at least 6 years. Where is the evidence that there has been any harmful abuse? Are people disappearing? Are any citizens being charged with being an enemy agent or foreign agent and getting sent to Gitmo and then being released because the charges were invalid? Yes One man - Jose Padilla,

Can we have a discussion about what is really happening instead of the imaginary possibilities that are not apparent in making their way into real life?

Posted by tangent on 11:44 AM -

Responde to Richard101:

"If the abuse is not apparent, is there any abuse?"

I believe the saying is 'if a tree fell in the forest does it make a sound?' and not 'If a tree falls in the forest did it really fall down?' If there is abuse, then there is abuse.

"If someone puts a video camera in your bathroom and has video of you and your family in the bathroom to get their jollies and you never know, are your rights being abused? Let's say yes. If you and no one else but the videographer knows about it, what is the harm? None because you don't know and nothing ever happend from it."

In this case the abuse is the threat itself that your conversations will be recorded and listened to even though you have done nothing to be suspicious. What is actually done with the recording is a minor part of this.

Let's say you are right and there is no effective oversight. These powers have been in the hands of the Executive Branch for at least 6 years. Where is the evidence that there has been any harmful abuse?

The evidence is with anyone who has felt uncomfortable making an innocent phone call from our country overseas. The harm is that it stifles free speech to know that you could be recorded at any moment without even the flimsiest of justification.

Are people disappearing?

Yes, the CIA extraditions have now been well documented were people were held incommunicado for months or years. But these were foreigners and I don't disagree that all foreigners should be spied on without warrant. Just that when that call is to, from or inside the United States, then there should be a warrant. Even as a practical matter I would be okay with intercepting communications to and from the United States while they were physically still outside the United States. But once we are inside the 3 mile limit, I think everything should require a warrant... yes, it might seem silly and innefficient to a bureaucrat. Because what is the effective difference between easedropping on someone on shore with a nice arrangement with the telco versus going out 3 miles and doing a wiretap? Well, in the case of wiretaps I think police convenience shouldn't win out over the Integrity of Freedom within our own borders.

Posted by Jim_r on 12:09 PM

Everybody relax. This will all be explained when you arrive at your assigned indoctrination camp. Friendly agents will wake you up in your bed and escort you to a bus, then provide you with a free, comfortable blindfold so you can sleep on your journey.

Don't worry. It's only to keep you safe!

:crazy: Richard101!! :rofl:

[Breeze54]

7. Kicking for the evening crowd.

;)

:kick:

[Breeze54]

8. why not kick it?

:P

:kick:

I think the response to richard101 is funny and I want to make sure others at DU read it! :P

Sorry mods for being a pest! :rofl: