Do you ever get tired of hating?

[Skinner]

Note that I didn't ask whether you get tired of hate. I think it is pretty obvious that everyone gets tired of hate, particularly when that hate is directed at you or someone you care about. There has been a lot of hate on DU recently. (Heck, there's been a lot of hate on DU since the very beginning.) I'm certainly tired of it, and I suspect that most of you are tired of it too.

But I'm not asking whether you get tired of that hate. Because asking if you are tired of that hate, the hate that comes from other people, isn't really much of a question at all -- the answer is obvious. Asking if you are tired of that hate lets all of us off the hook. It implies that we are all innocent bystanders, and the atmosphere of relentless negativity on this website is caused by someone else. No doubt, that is true for many of you. But for others, not so much.

So, what I'm asking is this: Do you ever get tired of hating?

I get tired of hating. (I get tired of hate, too, but that's another story.) Believe it or not, I don't actually hate very many people. I think it's safe to say that I hate George W. Bush. Other than him, off the top of my head I can't think of anyone I hate. I actually get tired of hating Bush sometimes. He certainly deserves it, and I doubt that I could stop hating the man even if I tried, which I haven't. But even hating Bush gets tiring for me sometimes. I find that I am a much happier person when I am not watching his smirking mug on my television set, or when I am not dwelling on how much I can't stand him.

I get annoyed or angry with my fellow DUers sometimes. I might go so far as to say that sometimes -- on occasion -- I might feel hate for someone. Fortunately, the feeling is almost always temporary. I sometimes get emails or private messages from people that include some indication that they think I don't like them. Maybe I locked one of your threads a while back, or deleted one of your posts, or didn't respond to an email or something. Maybe at the time I was genuinely angry or annoyed with you. Maybe for a fleeting moment I felt hate. But as I said the feeling is almost always temporary. By the time you get around to sending me that private message or email, I have typically forgotten whatever it is that got me angry in the first place. God's honest truth: I deal with so much bullcrap as admin here that it would be virtually impossible for me to keep track of who I'm supposed to be harboring grudges against. It would also be terrible for my mental health (and probably even my physical health) to maintain that level of hate on a day-to-day basis. I learned early on that I am a much happier person if I deal with it and put it behind me.

So, yeah, sometimes I hate. And I get tired of it. It does not make me feel very good.

It is clear that there are a lot of people here on DU who are like me, and sometimes feel hate. It has been particularly true these last few days. (Fortunately these things go in cycles -- eventually it will get better, I promise. Of course, some time after that it will get bad again.) I guess I'm wondering, do you ever get tired of hating? Or is it true that some people are only happy when they are unhappy?

And if you do hate sometimes, do you act in a way that contributes to the atmosphere of pervasive and relentless negativity (or even hate) that sometimes takes hold here on Democratic Underground? Surely, you are justified if you do. There is always a good reason when we do it. So I'm not asking whether you were right, or whether that guy deserved it, because no doubt you were and he did. What I'm asking is this...

Do you ever get tired of hating? I know I do.

[annabanana]

1. Hatred and righteous outrage are two different things.

One is enervating, the other invigorating. The word "hate" itself is wishy-washy and a right wing frame that I will not drop into willingly.

[Skinner]

3. I think that too often, what we feel as righteous outrage...

...manifests itself as permission to hate. At least it does here on DU.

[iamthebandfanman]

156. exactly

i think alot of people on the boars tend to have this self righteous 'im never wrong' complex. its really to bad too. it prevents rational, reasonable, and logical discussions from occuring.

[liberalmike27]

276. It's Hard

It's hard to discuss things rationally with people who are using as a source, a news channel that regularly lies, and deceives. People honestly think they are using the truth in their arguments, when in actuality, they are just repeating lies, or opinion masquerading as truth and fact.

As far as hating, I don't think I so much hate many people, like the author, other than this administration. In fact, last night I was thinking that if the democrats manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of winning in 2008, I won't find any of the frontrunner's (with the exception of Fred Thompson) as disgusting as the ever swaggering, smug, too sure of himself, George Bush. I'm sure if I met individuals I would find some fairly loathsome. Usually, the most disgusting people, like Bush, are people who have had everything they ever wanted, a great education, and don't seem to understand that they've gotten to where they are because they've had ever entitlement. The seem unaware of their elite status, or how much more they have than the rest of us. That is the worst.

That said, I always do like to take the point, use the same tactics against republicans that they use against us. It seems to work, and I figure if they can make the non-sequitur arguments, why should I restrict myself. So, if they don't want health care, then I just say "So your position is if a poor person gets sick, with no health care, we should just let them die." Truth is, that isn't so far from the truth, though most republicans won't say, "Yea, that's right." Sadly, a few will. But you get my drift. Often, when republicans say what they are against, you can rephrase it into what they are for, and usually, like this example, it isn't pretty. I guess what I'm saying is, you don't have to hate, to make a kind of hateful argument.

[redqueen]

186. Not just here on DU.

Everywhere... I see it most clearly in religious types. The contrast is too striking not to notice it.

[Common Sense Party]

202. How interesting. Around here, I see it frequently

directed AT "religious types."

[redqueen]

207. That, too! Very much so.

I was only saying it's more of a striking contrast in religious types... considering that religion ought to be about not hating people.

[benny05]

217. Skinner, I hear you and Want to Say Something Here

A few of us were at the Yearly Kos over the weekend. It was extraordinary and for me, a haven for political junkies. I met supporters of various candidates and former candidates too. Except for once or twice that I recall, no one was vicious about someone else's candidate. The person may have chosen not to engage with you for long or disagreed, but it was respectful for the most part.

I've noticed on the Daily Kos that the ones who met one another at Yearly Kos, have been more civil in discourse, even if they continue to disagree since we got home. The ones who didn't, or at least the ones I didn't encounter personally, have continued to be uncivil and petty in their attacks on candidates. I saw this pettiness here again today. The DU'ers/Kossacks all agreed the bar needs to be raised on how we interact. Instead of focusing totally on the past, we feel the need to see, then articulate how the candidates have evolved and what their plans are that make sense for us. Attacking another candidate out of pure frustration, especially if a DU'ers candidate is not likely to run again (there are two and we know who they are, both good men), then they should be concentrating on some candidates they do like. There is too much unforgivingness on certain issues, especially if the candidates said they were wrong. It means they thought about it more and wish to be by us better.

If they have the "no frickin' clue" mindset at the moment, they can find a local or state candidate to support and this should be talked up. Share the good experience. It's not to say we shouldn't comment on some blatant errors or debunk those (especially in the Freeper party), but the common goal is to get our country moving with 21st century leaders. Likely, we are not going to agree with all of their ideas or thoughts. But if we keep fighting against each other instead or as you say, hating, we will not get what we want: a bigger majority in Congress or in the White House or in our states to push more progressive agendas such as universal health care, ending the occupation in Iraq, or having the right for employees to unionize as much as we can declare ourselves part of the Democratic party.

We cannot afford any more apathy to move this country forward, and we need a greater turnout at the voting booth. Howard Dean said at Yearly Kos that higher voting turnout generally is favorable towards the Dems, and that younger people will vote our way if we try to find ways to get along.

Back to your program...and thanks for listening.

[tavalon]

223. Same exact thing happens when DUers meet in real time

It's what sustains me here when I see too much of the asshole in my fellow DUer. I've met enough of these people, including a couple of our esteemed leaders to believe that they are bad people, just people who sometimes act badly as I have on occasion.

[benny05]

224. We need our own DU Conference

But it would take a lot of organizing.

[tavalon]

228. And yet, we have had many meetups

Whether for a protest, a memorial or just local meetups. I've never met anyone from DU who I didn't adore in real life. And DUers in real life always have my back and I theirs.

[benny05]

230. But I am in a smaller town

Town meet ups are good, and I do know they happen. I just want a bigger place to meet you all.

[tavalon]

233. Watch the list. They seem to happen about once a year

I remember at least two times it was held in Boston so people could meet Will Pitt. And frankly, that boy needs a reminder that we DUers are stand up folk in real life so another meet up in his neck of the woods might not be a bad thing. I would personally like to go to Boston, never having been to the seat of our Democracy. Perhaps this is the seed...............................

[Gelliebeans]

241. I agree with you

it is much easier to dismiss someone when they are still anonymous however when you meet face to face you give someone more of yourself and it makes it easier to allow for disagreements without belittling of opinion. We love our friends and family in real life but we don't always agree with them on all things and yet we still love them and most of us are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Bottom line, it is always easier to be nasty or dismissive when we do so anonymously. Sad, but true.

The ideals brought us here to DU but the friendships will allow us to stay and feel inclusive. Something to ponder I guess.

[helderheid]

297. Yes and yes. I am exhausted.

[warren pease]

71. Yup... anger's what drives me politically...

After almost seven years of BushCo, the only thing that gets me out of bed in the morning is the possibility of hammering another minuscule tack into the empire. Maybe it's via t-shirt or bumper sticker; maybe it's by writing another article that challenges orthodoxy and the official story; maybe it's by talking (and listening) to others with similar concerns; occasionally it's even finding some small bit of common ground with an otherwise incorrigible wingnut.

But at the core is a barely contained simmering rage that's been with me since Fox called it for Bush on election night 2000, and this administration hasn't given me a single reason to calm down since.

Intellectually, I know hatred is counterproductive and can reduce a person to a kind of apoplectic inertia, where the emotion is so destructive that it becomes an end in itself and not at all useful. Knowing that, it's still hard not to hate the bastards who have chosen to take a relatively stable and prosperous country and utterly destroy its legal foundations, its economy, its few remaining social programs, and its standing in the eyes of the world. Pretty detestable, I'd say.

But I'm fortunate in that anger prevails over pure hate, and I find anger to be a great motivator. So I'll stay pissed until the stakes are pounded into what's left of the hearts of these vampires and eagerly await their day at The Hague.

Here's a thought: Since congress won't do a damn thing about the situation, maybe BushCo's leading criminals can be rounded up and shipped to The Netherlands once they're out of the white house. The Mossad did something similar when they captured Eichmann in South America in 1960 and shipped him to Israel to stand trial for WW II war crimes. So there's precedent.

Now that would turn anger into boundless joy in less time than it takes to type this period.

wp

[Donald Ian Rankin]

132. I disagree.

I feel righteous outrage.
You get angry.
He/she hates.

That's what the difference is.

They are, I think, at most as distinct as terrorists and freedom fighters, and arguably less so.

[Guaranteed]

206. They are- they're two entirely different behaviors. nt

[Subdivisions]

2. I'm tired of hating our current situation. I don't

normally hate people and there's no one on DU that I hate. I have been "hated on" here though and, yes, I'm sick of that shit too.

EDITED TO ADD: Thanks for bringing this up, Skinner. We should be more united and less contentious amongst ourselves. If I don't agree with someone's opinion, I try to talk about it, not hate on the person with whom I disagree. Glad to send this off to the Greatest page with the 5th rec.

[lonestarnot]

4. It turns into anger after a very short time for me. I get tired of being angry.

Make me do too much! So mostly I just get tired. }(

[King Coal]

5. I hate Cheney and Rove. I really just feel sorry for Bush.

[Junkdrawer]

9. LOL...beat me by this much....

:hi:

[King Coal]

10. I noticed that too.

:hi:

[Javaman]

67. actually, I pity moron* nt

[rhett o rick]

261. You got it right on. But despise seems more fitting than hate. nm

[Junkdrawer]

I hate the people BEHIND Bush...Bush himself is a pathetic figure of pity...

An abused man-child put up to safely drain off our outrage.

[YOY]

18. As I feel but many here seem to think him capable of far greater

Almost laughable as that notion is, I've heard him called 'insane','evil', and farther fetched notions, when you pretty much summed up him a a few words.

Cheney though...not an abused man-child by any stretch of the imagination.

[Junkdrawer]

24. Cheney is senior management....those types always hide out until...

they make the occasional policy statements.

[Junkdrawer]

6. Dupe..

[BlooInBloo]

7. Yah - *maintaining* hate is tiring.

[SpiralHawk]

8. Fusion of the polarities

The challenge of our era:

STEEP STEPS TO 2012

http://www.chiron-communications.com/communique%207-10.html


"...Mr. Barrios explained: "We live in a world of polarity: day and night, man and woman, positive and negative. Light and darkness need each other. They are a balance. Just now the dark side is very strong, and very clear about what they want. They have their vision and their priorities clearly held, and also their hierarchy. They are working in many ways so that we will be unable to connect with the spiral Fifth World in 2012."

"On the light side everyone thinks they are the most important, that their own understandings, or their group’s understandings, are the key. There’s a diversity of cultures and opinions, so there is competition, diffusion, and no single focus."

"As Mr. Barrios sees it, the dark side works to block fusion through denial, hate, and materialism. It also works to destroy those who are working with the light to get the Earth to a higher level. They like the energy of the old, declining Fourth World, the materialism. They do not want it to change. They do not want fusion. They want to stay at this level, and are afraid of the next level.


"The dark power of the declining Fourth World cannot be destroyed or overpowered. It’s too strong and clear for that, and that is the wrong strategy. The dark can only be transformed when confronted with simplicity and open-heartedness. This is what leads to fusion, a key concept for the World of the Fifth Sun...


"...Within the context of ether there can be a fusion of the polarities," Mr. Barrios said. "No more darkness or light in the people, but an uplifted fusion. But right now the realm of darkness is not interested in this. They are organized to block it. They seek to unbalance the Earth and its environment so we will be unready for the alignment in 2012..."

(snip)

[JitterbugPerfume]

11. A very wise DUer , who is no longer with us

told me that I should never hate, because it distroys the hater , and not the hated.

I always listened to my friend oneighty

[myrna minx]

17. Oh how I miss that wise gentleman and kind spirit. n/t

[Crewleader]

69. Well Said Skinner...

And wise indeed, our friend oneighty, I always listened too Jitterbug! :hug:

[proud patriot]

144. I miss him and his words of wisdom

I tire of hating very easily and have shamed myself at times .

[Vilis Veritas]

179. Wise words.

Sounds like oneighty had a profound understanding about how to navigate life. Something that usually comes after many trials and tribulations...

I am saddened that I missed his postings...

[JitterbugPerfume]

218. he was

wise and funny and smart.

I miss him every day

[Poll_Blind]

283. I still miss 180. n/t

PB

[Alexander]

288. Seconded.

I don't hate, even if I do intensely dislike.

[Cameron27]

12. Yes, I get tired of hating, but I generally hate ideas

rather than the people who think them. There definately are some people who are only happy when they're unhappy, but I see it displayed as manufactured outrage more than anything else. Maybe anonymous posting brings out the drama queen in all of us.

[electron_blue]

13. Oh yes. It's draining as hell.

When I went through my divorce I hated my stbx with a passion. And it put me on edge, which affected how I reacted to him and others. I hated him so much I finally couldn't take it anymore and then I let go. It's not that I never feel that hate toward him, but now it happens way less and I became convinced that I could establish boundaries and protect my child's interest just as well (perhaps better) when I was overcome with emotion.

I now see my ex as someone filled with hate 80% of the time. He looks so miserable to me. I don't want to be that miserable.

I somehow missed all the negativity here in the last week that many are talking about. Hmmm.

[dogday]

14. I don't have that luxury when it comes to Iraq

and how it has and continues to affect me on personal level... I hate this war and all it stands for. I hate to see innocent people die day after day... I hate to think one day it could be my Son who will be counted among the list of dead. I hate the way Washington sits on it's hands and thinks somehow this war can be won or salvaged....

So yes, there is hate, but only for policies and procedures that have caused nothing but destruction and chaos in this world....

[JuniperLea]

139. You have a kind heart, dogday

[Burma Jones]

15. Hate is Bred by Fear

and the only thing to fear is....well you know the rest.

I am disgusted by the current buttheads that constitute the Administration. I am sometimes bemused by people at DU.

[madokie]

16. I was raised in a loving home and never really learned about the hate

thingy until these last few years, but to answer your question, yes I do. its to me a foreign feeling that I'm not very comfortable with

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

40. Same exact with me madokie. In fact several years ago, I told someone that I never hated anyone in

my life. Maybe disliked actions and yet never Hated. That has unfortunately changed and it puts me so out of balance. Yes, uncomfortable.

[MasonJar]

19. I personally never get tired of hating W, Cheney and the other Bush losers.

[Midlodemocrat]

20. Hate destroys the one doing the hating. Not the one who is hated.

I've had enough hate. I'm tired.

[AZBlue]

267. Oh, if only I could nominate a post within a thread!!!

Thank you!

[bryant69]

21. I don't make a conscious choice to hate

Usually. I see something that pisses me off and I go after it. Occasionally I might be in a bad mood and come here looking for trouble; alternatively I might decide that I'm in a bad mood already and I should probably stay away from Democratic Underground.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[catmandu57]

22. Yes

I'm drawing back somewhat, so I can rebuild my energy, I have a feeling that September is going to be a long hot month, and hate is going to spike.

[jobycom]

23. I try hard not to hate. Like you, the list is very short--Bush and Reagan, maybe.

Even them, I hate their deeds more than them. I hate Reagan, more than I hate Bush. I despise Bush for what he's done, and I found absolutely nothng redeemable in him. But it's not hate--I can still feel pity for him. Reagan, I just absolutely hate with a deep passion I'm not even sure I understand. Sure, as a well-meaning teenager I felt that every one of his speeches targeted me and the virtues I was most proud of, and told me that I--liberal, anti-war, non-hater, non-racist--was the problem with America. I still hate him. I don't even feel bad about hating him. I've had people hurt me personally, deliberately, in the worst ways possible, and I don't hate them. But I hate Reagan.

But the hatred on this board is overwhelming. At Bush, at Pelosi, at Clinton, at Democrats, at Barry Bonds, at Tom Cruise or Britney Spears or whatever singer/actor/painter/writer they feel is overrated. At the fans of entertainers they hate. Some people seem all about hate, as though it makes them better than the people they hate, as though they need that boost in their own self-image.

It's stifling. I get tired of that. I get tired of people who play word games and pretend they aren't hating, when they are, and who try to justify their petty hatred by arguing that the person or people or group they hate deserve it. That denial sickens me as much as the hate. And it makes me ashamed of myself, for that one hatred I can't shake.

So I guess, yeah, I get tired of hating. I get tired of being angry. Hatred is bad, every time. It weakens the hater, and undermines the message. It makes an honest motivation into an impure emotion. It destroys reason. It destroys love. It destroys everything I as a liberal believe should be paramount. It cheapens everything I claim to believe. So yes, I get tired of feeling it, and I'm sickened when I can't defeat it. Not that I feel I have to love Reagan or Bush to be a better person. Just that I need to stop hating. Period. Hatred is an evil force, regardless of who is hated.

[LeftishBrit]

181. I hate Thatcher in pretty much the way you hate Reagan

For the rest, I think your post is a great one. Not always able to put it into practice, but fully agree with it!

[lapislzi]

25. Total. Energy. Drain.

I find it difficult to sustain for anything but very short periods. Even then, I hesitate to call it "hating." It's more like counterproductive anger. I like anger when it can spur me to action, but when it's an emotional drain, it just wears me out. And I never feel the better for it.

I can't hate bush. That would not make me a better human being, and that is my goal. Most of the time I fall short, but it's good to have a goal.

[pacalo]

26. I get tired of seeing the hate shown to certain people here.

The "certain people" I'm talking about valuable DU members who put their hearts into getting information to us that the media won't touch. We should always appreciate that, even though if the information they learned behind the scenes didn't pan out due to later circumstances.

I get madder than hell at what those people have been subjected to here, mostly out of jealousy that seemed to grow into hatred. I find that pretty damn sad.

[Poll_Blind]

140. I love your handle! n/t

PB

[pacalo]

229. Thanks!

I love your avatar. Carter is a true Christian who jumped into the mudbath of politics; Bush was raised on mud patties & can only claim to be a Christian. (Thought I'd add that analogy in keeping with the OP subject. ;) )

[Heidi]

27. I find that it takes a lot of effort to hate and act in hateful ways.

And on the occasions when I behave in hateful ways, it does make me tired. Generally, upon reflection, I feel that my hate wasn't worth all of the energy I put into it.

To answer your question: Maybe I'm lazy, but I find that it takes a lot less effort for me to _not_ hate than to go ahead and hate.

[Junkdrawer]

28. "particularly true these last few days"...Are you referring to the FISA vote?

:shrug:

[SaveAmerica]

29. I actually had to make myself stop hating after the '04 election, felt

myself heading down that same path I saw the haters that I despised taking. It got to where I imagined baseball bats knocking certain people's blocks off when I saw them on TV. I didn't want to become like the hater pukes (although we have more justification for hate, theirs is something manufactured by right-wing media). I read 1984 recently and saw myself in the 'Time of Hate' (is that what it's called? that moment when they froth, foam and hate at the 'enemy' on TV?) from that period in my life and am so glad I did all that I could to turn that energy into positive action (found our local democratic party and it made a world of difference).

To DU:
Hate takes too much out of you, it eats at your soul. Unless you want to harbor a soul like Cheney, Bush or any of the rabid republicans, do what you can to release the hate and work to bring peace to yourself and our country. It has to start with you.

[guitar man]

30. I can't literally hate

W, Cheney, Rove et al because I have never met them, I don't know them personally so I can't hate hem that way. I do despise every last thing they stand for and am constantly outraged by their words and actions.

Outrage fatigue is what I think I suffer from more than anything these days.

[slackmaster]

31. I've always known that hating was fatiguing, so never bothered to start

I get annoyed with peoples' behavior, but other than one guy who ripped me off and sexually assaulted my girlfriend in 1977 I don't actually hate anyone.

If I ever find that guy, he's in for a world of pain.

[RandomKoolzip]

32. Nah.

Hate - directed at the correct target - is a wonderful motivator.

[travelingtypist]

33. That would be a negative.

I will never get tired of hating Bush until he's marched
in front of The Hague and put on trial for war crimes.
Him and his whole crew -- Cheney, Feith, Perle, Novak,
Rove, Rumsfeld, Rice. I will hate them until they pay
for what they've done and when they're punished and after.

I don't think they've done their worst yet and I am afraid
of what's coming. And so I hate them.

I have lurked here for a long time. I always come here
for big events like debates and testimony in front of
Congress. Don't post much.

The other stuff that goes on here, the personal wars and
the "woe is DU stuff" I don't bother to read. Whatever.
So no personal hate here.

[hfojvt]

34. I do, but I attend my daily sessions as required

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate

"In George Orwell's novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, the Two Minutes Hate (alternatively two minute hate) is a daily period in which Party members of the society of Oceania must watch a film depicting The Party's enemies (notably Emmanuel Goldstein and his followers) and express their hatred for them and the principles of democracy.

The film and its accompanying auditory and visual cues (which include a grinding noise that Orwell describes as "of some monstrous machine running without oil") are a form of brainwashing to Party members, attempting to whip them into a frenzy of hatred and loathing for Emmanuel Goldstein and the current enemy superstate."


Sometimes I think we are caught up in the fear/hate motive of our whole society. The right wing fears the terrorist and hates the liberal and the liberal fears the fascist and hates the 'Freeper'.

Is this part of the male upbringing in our society? The only emotion which is allowed, which does not make you WEAK (the worst possible thing to be) is hatred. So we learned to let that one run wild, while suppressing all the others. Hurt me or scare me and I become angry and in turn hurt or scare somebody else. The child's 'game' 'pass it on' involves hitting the person next to you and saying 'pass it on' and they hit the person next to them, etc. The world is full of hate, pass it on.

[femrap]

35. Great post, Skinner...I never

knew that I could hate a small group of males as much as I do. This neocon cabal has taken me to new levels of hatred...to which I am not particularly proud. I lived thru Watergate and never thought we would see something similar. Now, Nixon looks like a teddy bear. Then I had to live through the Reagan years which drove me insane. I saw the seed of Greed planted, spouting, and then thrive to new heights of corruption...this Greed has immersed itself into our culture.

Hating is exhausting...draining. Better to utilize that energy with phone calls to our Representatives or better yet writing them. Two or three times a month, I write a group of people in DC....I've been focusing on the Dems on the Judiciary Committee. This week, I'm writing all 57 of our Dems who voted w/ W on FISA. Then I think I'll keep that up and focus on all of the BLUE DOGS....whom I don't hate...but they annoy the shit out of me. It really helps me get rid of the frustration.

I have fun with my writing...I bought some stickers of footballs, baseballs, and basketballs this week...guess what I'm going to be saying to those 57 Dems...FIND YOUR BALLS! Oh, and I bought stickers of EGGS for our women Reps...FIND YOUR OVA! There's always time to write these cards...usually while I'm watching Olbermann.

Please join in getting our message to the annoying Blue Dogs...use your hate in a positive manner.

Thanks Skinner....never hate a Dem, they just need to be enlightened, right? And people who hate over primary candidates...what a waste of energy. We still have 18 months of W in office.

[Hubert Flottz]

36. Yes I do hate.

I think Karl Rove is the creator of about 25% of mine and Cheney another 25% and Bush another 25% and the rest is BushCo the enablers and their blood sucking relatives.

Before 2000, I wasn't like I am now. And yes I'm very tired. Sick and tired...

[tavalon]

225. I hate to be the one to clue you in to this but........

you're actually the creator of all of your emotions. The above named may instigate but you create. It's very disempowering to you to give them that power. If you hate, you hate but don't blame that one on the cabal.

[PoconoPragmatist]

253. I Second This

Count me in your group.

The only good Repricklickan is a dead Repricklickan.

[peacetalksforall]

37. I rarely say hate and I differentiate between the person and their acts.

Instead of saying hate, I say despise - but I usually mean it about what they show me -

I depise their hypocrisy or -
I despise their arrogance
their transparent lying that assumes I'm stupid
covering up whether recognized at the moment or dropped on me after the fact
selling us out to corporations

To me depise means I've thought about it.

If I say despise this person or that person, there would be no end to the list (because the list has been growing since 1963 as I become smarter).

If I despise what they do, it narrows things down.

As to the person, it means loss of respect and trust.
SOME can sometimes gain it back.

The way they play with me causes the anger.
The way they play with me is bi-partisan.

[CTyankee]

38. The hostile atmosphere almost always cuts off debate. There are some threads I won't bother to post

on because I fear it will just result in a string of obscenities, adding nothing to the discussion. So I'm stopped before I even begin. For instance, I don't think we can have much of a debate on the merits of Hillary's campaign messages. No careful evaluation, no dissection and then a well thought out rebuttal. I say this as someone who is undecided on who should be our candidate (but I am leaning to Edwards). A calm reflection on what she is proposing is enough for me to get a better idea of who she is. But I see fewer of those posts and more obscenity laced rhetoric.

DU is at its best a terrific place to learn a lot. The folks here who post from all over the country, and the world, have a perspective that each of us individually cannot have. I have been grateful, also, for the help of DUers who have a better base of knowledge on an issue than I have, when I want to write a LTTE and I need some grounding on the topic.

My point is that nothing can be gained by simply repeating tired slogans and name calling ("corporate whore" is one; tell me exactly what corporation, what was being whored, when, etc. Give me hard facts, back up your argument, I'll listen).

[yardwork]

166. That's a very good point - I'm tired of the way that we "elect" people in this country.

It's discouraging to see Democrats behaving so badly. Right now, more than a year before the next presidential election, is the best time to be listening to the various Democratic candidates' messages, asking good questions, analyzing responses, encouraging all the candidates to hone their messages. That's the way to develop a strong ticket that will lead to a Democrat in the White House who represents the best approaches.

Instead, it's slash and burn, slash and burn, slash and burn. It's discouraging. It's much too soon to be attacking all these candidates. It's a stupid waste of time, ideas, and energy.

I think that I hate conditions rather than people. I hate the way that this country is run by greedy, narrow-minded, selfish, self-serving, short-term thinking fools.

[CTyankee]

215. I'm beginning to hate our system of primaries where there is, as you put it, slash and burn.

I want much more time spent on issues.

I am hopeful that at somepoint we can hear the proposals to help us solve our problems....

[eridani]

237. It's the cash and not the slash that bugs me n/t

[TahitiNut]

39. I get tired of the conflation of message/messenger, sin/sinner, what/who.

I can 'hate' what someone does without 'hating' the person doing it. I can 'hate' what someone says without 'hating' the preson saying it. And I can 'hate' the vote without 'hating' the voter.

:shrug:

I believe there are some who cannot (or will not) distinguish between the two.

When we emulate the right-wing and equate bashing what Smirk & Sneer do with "Bush-bashing," equate a disgust with what Lieberman does to "Lieberman-bashing," equate profound disagreement with how Clinton votes with "Hillary-bashing" ... then we're no better than right-wingers in our rhetoric.

Every time I see a DUer take disagreement with WHAT they say as a 'personal attack' and then reply in kind, insulting the person disagreeing, I know that the ability to attack the message instead of the messenger is not one commonly understood.

[JuniperLea]

143. Wise words, as always, TahitiNut

The underhanded snark that covers a whole thread of people who disagree with a thought is particularly painful to see. It must be lonely for the people who have unpopular beliefs... the thought police are everywhere.

[TahitiNut]

165. Thanks. We must remember that the opposite of love isn't hate. It's apathy.

Wherever I see something detestible, I can also see the negative image of that which I love.

[JuniperLea]

173. Whoa... ok...

I'm going to have to ponder that one a while. Deep. Very deep.

[Ganja Ninja]

41. I really hate hating but what are you gonna do?

When I stop hating being oppressed and repressed and shortchanged by a system that doesn't care what I want then I'm in trouble.

[Chovexani]

248. Amen

I hate bullies and bigots and there's far too many of them on DU these days. I'm not talking about people with whom you can have polite disagreements over minutia, I'm talking about people who must have gotten lost on the way to FR they're so clueless. The racists and misogynists and homophobes who paint enough of a liberal-minded veneer over their bullshit...yeah, I've had about enough of that crowd. In fact, I hate them more than I hate the reich wing, because at least RW nutjobs don't pretend to be your friend and in favor of your rights.

I will never get tired of hating and fighting this shit every time I come across it. It's personal. Of course I don't entirely identify with this fucked up species I was born into this life, so :shrug:

[ThomWV]

42. Nope, not in the least

When something is so vile that hatred is the appropriate response - and the acts of the Bush Administration certainly qualify - then I stick with hating it until it is gone. I do not tire of the hating and I hope I never will, because to tire of the battle is to lose the battle.

[tjwash]

43. I was thinking "I try not hating anything or anyone". Then the Fred Phelps thread got kicked.

And I have officially amended that thought.

[rox63]

44. I do hate the the deeds of the * admin

And I have a very hard time watching or listening to * on the radio or teevee. I don't know if that means I hate * as a person. I hate what he stands for and what he's done. And that goes double for Cheney and Rove.

Mostly, I feel angry at our current government. Sometimes I get to a point where I need to step away from the things that make me angry, because being that angry all the time drains the life-force out of a person. So sometimes I need to step away from politics and even DU. But I come back later refreshed and ready to battle the right-wing machine again.

[xchrom]

45. i think we are in a phase when the internet -- and that means DU -- is a platform

for a kind of exhibitionism.

people can just let fly their righteous indignation -- like a flag -- and sit back and admire it.

be excited by the responses -- allow others to stoke the fire of a kind of masturbatory zeal.

nobody will read this -- it's too far down the thread.

but that's what i think.

i have some other thoughts though about people who post things that are dangerous for society -- and i'm sad to see DU become a platform for that stuff.

[tavalon]

226. Wrong

I read it and it has some really good points. Thanks.

[shireen]

245. i read it. excellent points. nt

[On the Road]

46. As Joe Biden Famously Said:

"Yes."

[Philosoraptor]

47. It's just a little somethin' to keep me goin', like cheap coffee.

[DinahMoeHum]

48. Put it this way, Skinner: WE ARE SICK AND TIRED OF BEING SICK AND TIRED.

And sooner or later, that's going to express itself in some way that, unfortunately, we cannot mention here.

:evilfrown:

[KoKo]

56. yep....sums up the way I feel..."Sick & Tired of Being Sick & Tired"...n/t

[Dragonbreathp9d]

49. agreed, even when its just hating hate

I feel icky

[whistle]

50. Good discussion, so if I may, here is a list of common definitions for Hate

....along with frequent uses of the term in our culture, so that we may have a uniform reference for the term hate:

Definitions of hate on the Web:

o the emotion of hate; a feeling of dislike so strong that it demands action
dislike intensely; feel antipathy or aversion towards; "I hate Mexican food"; "She detests politicians"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

o Hate or hatred is an emotion of intense revulsion, distaste, enmity, or antipathy for a person, thing, or phenomenon; a desire to avoid, restrict, remove, or destroy its object.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate

o Obsessive dislike accompanied by restraint and character.
www.cosmicledger.com/glossary/h

o Hate is a humorous, cynical, semi-autobiographical comic book by Peter Bagge, published by Fantagraphics Books. Beginning in 1990 and running for 30 issues, it tells the story of sleazy, disenfranchised Generation X slacker Buddy Bradley's increasingly futile search for love and happiness in modern day America - specifically Seattle and the suburbs of New Jersey. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_(comic)

o Hate is an album by The Delgados, released on the Mantra label on 2002-10-14 in the United Kingdom, and 2003-01-21 in the United States (with two bonus tracks). The album drew generally positive reviews, and has been compared to such other works as The Flaming Lips' The Soft Bulletin. The lyrics are emphatic, with strings and lots of reverb producing a somewhat drawn and pained sound; however, the album often leans towards more uplifting chords as well.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_(album)

o and hatelessness: (dosa, adosa) are two of the 6 karmical roots (múla, qv) or root-conditions (hetu; paccaya 1).
www.urbandharma.org/udharma2/dictionary/bd11.html


Related phrases: hate crime hate speech hate mail hate group hate crimes recipe for hate love-hate relationship hate you self-hate


Google search for the first two of these, hate crime and hate speech, which Skinner may be suggesting that we refrain from discussing/suggusting/advocating totally here on DU:

Definitions of hate crime on the Web:

o Crime of aggravated assault, arson, burglary, criminal homicide, motor vehicle theft, robbery, sex offenses, and/or crime involving bodily injury in which the victim was intentionally selected because of the victims' actual or perceived race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or disability.
www.otterbein.edu/resources/security/crime_stats/UCRdefinitions.asp

o An offense committed against another person, with the specific intent to cause harm to that person due to their race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, or culture, etc.
www.hss.state.ak.us/djj/jomis/glossary.htm

o A hate crime (bias crime), loosely defined, is a crime committed because of the perpetrator's prejudices. This is a controversial political issue within the US. The US Congress (HR 4797 - 1992) defined a hate crime as: " the defendant's conduct was motivated by hatred, bias, or prejudice, based on the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation or gender identity of another individual or group of individuals. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime

Definitions of hate speech on the Web:

o type of speech which is used to deliberately offend an individual; or racial, ethnic, religious or other group. Such speech generally seeks to condemn or dehumanize the individual or group; or express anger, hatred, violence or contempt toward them.
www.historycentral.com/Civics/H.html

o Hate speech is a controversial term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against someone based on their race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, or disability. The term covers written as well as oral communication.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech

[JDPriestly]

221. I use hate to mean an emotional, irrational attitude toward

a group of people, a person, an activity or a thing. I hate it when my neighbors have extraordinarily loud parties that go on until the middle of the night. I hate to have to say goodbye to family or friends. I hate it when someone I love becomes seriously ill or dies.

I don't hate Bush. I feel that I have the responsibility to do what I can to make this a good world for everyone and to right wrongs when I see them -- to the extent that I can, and that compels me to do what I can to fight against Bush and what he stands for. I am by nature a fighter, but I have never done anything approaching a violent act. Righteous indignation is a positive motivation to positive action. And I am righteously indignant through and through. Hate is crippling. I do not feel crippled by the Bush phenomena or my desire to fight it. I feel righteous indignation, and it energizes me.

[progressoid]

51. I hate haters who hate hate.

But now I'm just disgusted with disgust.

[ToeBot]

52. Ask me when I'm in a position to be gracious

When the boot heel in still grinding into your crotch you just want the pain to stop. If you can't make it stop then hating is about all you can do. I'm not even going to pretend to advocate 'turning the other cheek', all that will get you is another boot.

[momster]

53. Every Time I Get Tired of Hating,

Bush 'n' Co. do something to fan the flames. Every time I think they've run their limit, they stretch those boundaries. Every time I think this time we've got 'em, they weasel out from under once more. Hating Bush is just a gift that keeps on giving!

As for the other posters who start attacking personally (only twice so far to me), I figure a) it's a magic troll, b) somebody's having a bad day, or c)their frustration with the discussed situation is spilling over onto those who haven't their 'clarity of vison' on the issue (aka respectfully disagree). So I tend to post that I won't be responding to anything more and I don't. But I don't 'hate' anybody for it -- beyond wishing trolls would get a life.

[treestar]

55. You are right; Bushco depends on our getting tired of it all and

giving in so they can "win." The right wing is so clever the way it takes advantage of the tendencies of liberals.

[PoconoPragmatist]

54. I Never Get Tired Of Hating Those Who Do Harm To Me.

I believe in getting even. And some day, I will, too. Until I get even, I never forgive or forget...the harm someone has done to me.

I know, it's my weakness, but there it is. I cannot STAND letting someone get away with awful behavior, they must PAY for it.

[marions ghost]

94. There are situations

where the perpetrators will never pay. I have had it happen and seen it happen to others. There are cases where there is no protection under the law or anywhere, and to extract immediate or direct 'payment' is not possible. All you have left is a profound knowing that you were right and a big festering wound. But provided the abuse is not completely paralyzing, you can build up resistance to future attack and translate personal anger to power.

Also IMO if you have been victimized and consciously choose not to carry a burden of hatred because of the negative effects, you also do NOT have to forgive. It might seem like a fine distinction, but I've found it to be important in managing anger. Why forgive those you don't care about? Forgive those you do care about. Why give abusers any credit or make any excuses for them? Draw a line in the sand, and once that's drawn never never look back. That way you feel stronger and you can work more objectively against the form of abuse they represent. Works for me...don't know if it's for everybody. People have different methods of keeping the balance.

Thoughts: People who abuse and exploit others are like a bacteria that makes you sick. You wouldn't waste energy hating a bacteria. Some people are really sick and depraved and beyond any help or change. They make others sick. Unfortunately some of them are running the government right now. We will need to work on the damage they've done long after the current perps are gone. Their kind are all around us, as perennial as blood-sucking ticks. We must institute safeguards in future if we want to see true democracy in America, at least something resembling what we thought it was. This is the hard lesson of these times IMO. I laugh when I hear them talking about "keeping America safe and secure." The biggest threat is within.

We who don't abuse and generally play fair have endured a profound loss of trust in govt, in everything from the Justice Dept to cat food. I'm not at all surprised that there is a lot of anger & frustration. It's part of the process of acknowledging the Truth, no matter how bad it is. But productive things are happening now & it's encouraging. We need to stick together and patch up squabbles and treat each other well. We will harness our power and prevail over this rogue government. We have no other choice. Give me liberty or give me liberty. Death is not on the table.

[PoconoPragmatist]

251. True

But at least no one wants to charge you with murder for trying to kill bacteria.

If only we COULD kill this particular "bacteria."

I have never been more consumed with hate for anyone than I am for our current government. I have never in my life more hated Repricklickans, and everything they stand for...than I currently do.

For me, the only good Repricklickan is a dead Repricklickan.

[Tsiyu]

57. Well, I used to yell at the TV on Sunday mornings,

all the talking heads were pissing me off. My daughter essentially forced me to join DU so the TV might last a bit longer.

So I came here angry and frustrated in my political life and that colored all the rest of my life.

After 2004's "Selection" I was extremely hate-filled toward all Republicans.

I came here to vent and DU is the most awesome place for that. When you're so pissed off at politics and the way people act your head is about to explode, you just need some folks who will validate your outrage. So I think sometimes DUers come off as more hostile than they are in RL, because we use this place like a bulletin board on which we tack our strange/aggravating/unnerving experiences.

But as to hate, yes it is getting us nowhere. But channeling that anger - as we did getting themartyred's video pulled from that Fred Thompson supporter and plaigerizer's channel - is a classic DU gift.

Courtesy of our "We're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore" status. :)

[eleny]

58. Disgust is what I feel more than hate

Doing something about it helps. For instance, donating to an organization that works for a change I want helps a lot.

[alfredo]

59. Cneney's staffers have learned to manage their hate. They restrict

their hatred to two minutes a day. It seems to work for them.

[Phoonzang]

60. Yes I get tired of hate, and I get tired of DU

I don't post much but I've been reading the site for a long time. There's so much negativity here now, not only directed at Repubs but each other. Blowing off some steam is useful, but the constant stream of hate and anger that flows from this place these days is annoying as hell. I find myself visiting less and less because I sometimes find it hard to find DU as anything other than the flip side of Free Republic. Even though it's on "my side". I don

[OnionPatch]

214. I have to say I'm afraid to post sometimes

I don't know if everyone is just in a particularly rotten mood but lately I notice if you post an opinion contrary to the popular one here, you will be attacked swiftly. It's not worth it. It makes me more sad than anything else, though. I thought we could talk about anything here with an open mind.

[Marrah_G]

61. I do

I've actually never felt so much hate and anger within myself before the last few years. I find myself feeling instant anger and disgust if I find someone I know is a Bush-Bot. I find myself wishing things on people that I never would have before. I assume the same burning anger and hate is brewing on the other sides also and that, frankly, scares the hell out of me.

It's like watching Rome slowly crumbling the only difference is that Bush won't get shanked by a couple dozen senators on the floor of the senate..........

As for as DU goes I wouldn't call it hate so much as I would anger. There is most definitely a divide here that isn't going to go away anytime soon. I won't get into the whys or who is right, but that anger is there and brewing and will eventually boil over, when that happens one side will stay and another will go. I would like to think we can pull together but I think many are so dug into their viewpoint that they cannot and will not see anything else.

[Maine-ah]

62. I don't think it's hate(ing)

I think for the most part it's anger, and plenty of it gets misplaced, myself to be included. DU can sometimes be an ugly place, but it's an ugly war we are fighting. People need to get some thicker skins, and remember what we're here for. And for the people who truely are here just to be assholes, well, that's what the ignore function is for and it is why we have mods.

SO, do I ever get tired of it? Yep. I do. Do I keep on truckin'? Yep. Because it's our future, our children's future, and the future of our country, our earth. That's why. :patriot: :hug:

[tularetom]

63. I'm pissed off at a lot of people but I don't hate anybody

The emotion that comes to mind when I think of bush is "disdain".

When I think of cheney I feel "anger" and yet "amazement" that this asswipe can get away with everything he's done.

[Celebration]

64. Hating people

Gives them power--power over your moods. That's why you get tired of hating. It does not affect them in any way--only you, and not in a good way.

So, in a word, it is counterproductive.

Some people have trained themselves to hate--these are the people I try to avoid.

People that train themselves not to hate are those that attract people and friends.

The fleeting kind of annoyance is mostly harmless, and hard for me to avoid as well.

[Sapere aude]

65. Not so long ago I realized that if I hate it only hurts me. It doesn't do shit to the person I hate

If I hate or spend time in negative thought about someone else it takes away from the time I have thinking pleasant thoughts and it has negative effects on my spirit.

So I have tried to stop thinking negatively about others and hating others.

I've been studying Buddhism and the idea there I picked up on is that when I want to think negative thoughts about someone or want to hate them I could substitute the hateful thoughts with pleasant thoughts and it will be much better for me.

[marions ghost]

111. you're pretty advanced in anger management

if you can consciously substitute pleasant thoughts for hateful thoughts. So far I've substituted hateful thoughts with neutral or nothingness thoughts fairly consistently...but pleasant thoughts might only happen after years of Buddhist 'letting go' --for me anyway, since I tend to lock on to things.:)

[Sapere aude]

115. I try to think of the moment and how I am feeling. I try then to get rid of the negative thoughts.

I can replace them with the idea that my wife loves me at the moment and we are working to have a happier life. Something like that.

[Sapere aude]

121. Think of this song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhhZSbSF2cE

Enya - Wild Child Lyrics


Ever close your eyes
ever stop and listen
ever feel alive
and you've nothing missing
you don't need a reason
let the day go on and on

Let the rain fall down
everywhere around you
give into it now
let the day surround you
you don't need a reason
let the rain go on and on

What a day
what a day to take to
what a way
what a way
to make it through
what a day
what a day to take to
a wild child

Only take the time
from the helter skelter
every day you find
everything's in kilter
you don't need a reason
let the day go on and on

Every summer sun
every winter evening
every spring to come
every autumn leaving
you don't need a reason
let it all go on and on

What a day
what a day to take to
what a way
what a way
to make it through
what a day
what a day to take to
a wild child
What a day
what a day to take to
What a way
what a way
to make it through
What a day
what a day to take to
a wild child

Da-da-da
Da-da-da-da-da-da
Da-da-da
Da-da-da-da-da-da
what a way
what a way
to make it through
Da-da-da
Da-da-da-da-da-da
What a way
what a way
to make it through
what a day
what a day to take to
a wild child
what a day
what a day to take to
a wild child

[marions ghost]

154. well thank you Sapere

I'll take that as a musical message about pacing, slowing down, being in the moment. Which I attempt to do but often backslide. A lot of Enya's music is saying just that.

Even as we fight for the things we perceive we are losing, we must not sink to the level of operating out of blind fear and lack. That is the way of the Others whose way of thinking we usually oppose.

Mind like a mirror.

------------------------

Here's one for you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPRfDMsLDC8&mode=related&search=

[Sapere aude]

189. Thanks to you too

[Sapere aude]

191. Wild Child reminds me of doing some mindfulness meditation

[EFerrari]

66. I think "tired" may be too mild a term. It's exhausting and given that

we are looking at stitching together and holding together a progressive coalition this year, it's no time to fritter away energy that way. My mom and I were talking about this last night -- how so many of us seem to feel like two year olds at ten o'clock at night -- really tired, mad as hell and not listening.

We're still not over the last two Federal elections, and have had three more years of packing that around. In that way, 2008 is going to be harder than 2004 because we seem not to be as resilient as we were three years ago, to be more brittle and so less able to extend ourselves to one another.

People are negative out of that survival instinct that attends to threat. It's in our interest to notice when things are dangerous in some way. But if we only attend to what is negative, the prolonged hyper vigilance can be damaging and even, habit forming. I really don't want to live as if the last seven years are the new normal or respond to people out of that exhaustion.

[eggman67]

68. I don't hate anybody

I'm not good at it.

[Aanya]

70. Causers of hate will have to answer for it

When GWB was running for the presidency, we certainly had clues that we weren't going to like him. For many people Bush did bring out "hatred", as an emotion they hadn't felt since they were children, and they thought they knew what hatred was. It's a horrible emotion, and I hate Bush for that. When Nixon was going through his problems, I remember not "liking" him. I never felt "hate" for Nixon. You feel hate for Charles Manson. Examine what Bush has done to us, the nation, the world, and just like the death penalty is necessary for Tim McVey, Hate is the only emotion you can feel for Bush! Nothing else can satisfy that need! I do wonder one thing though. What was the emotion that the rethugs were feeling when they put Bill Clinton through the impeachment? Who did he kill or severly injure?

[Melissa G]

72. I just had this talk with myself last night Skinner, so I am glad you brought

it up.

I was doing my daily meditation and noticing how angry I was about a local political screw up. It was nothing nearly as heinous as the stuff on the national scene, but I was feeling almost as angry because it was local. Because it was so close to home. Because it should never have happened. Yet there it was.

This line came up in the scriptures I was reading.

"The world is drunk, engrossed in sexual desire, anger and egotism."

It just rang particularly true for me and I had to sit with it a long time. Sexual desire, anger and egotism can be equally intoxicating and pull you away from center. We lock the sex threads around here, but anger and egotism have free reign and sometimes folks get a bit drunk on those two emotions.

I'm working hard on just using the energy of my anger to do the necessary work I have to do today.
I am trying to remind myself to

"Practice truth, contentment and kindness; this is the most excellent way of life."

which was a a line or two down from the previous quote.

It does not mean I won't do the same work. It does not mean I won't fight the same fights. It does not mean I may not feel anger and egotism.
It just means if I am successful in my practice of truth, contentment and kindness, that I may be more successful and have a better life and maybe, those around me might also.
Best,
Melissa

[EFerrari]

77. It looks like several of us had this conversation last night.

:hi:

[Melissa G]

81. Yeah, sfexpat2000, I noticed that..Must be in the air.

You can think good thoughts for me, because I am going to try to stay positive and see the good in people while I sit through several hours of my city council meeting tonight.

Practicing truth, contentment and kindness is such a fine sentiment in the abstract...much tougher sometimes in the everyday small, grating issues.:) All prayers and good thoughts welcome. I need all the help I can get.:hi:

[EFerrari]

84. Okay, you got it!

O8) O8) O8) O8) O8)

[Melissa G]

101. LOL! Thanks, I'll Need it!

you're the best! :hug:

[tavalon]

227. My conversation was yesterday

Interesting.

[Desertrose]

73. Hating...a big waste of time and energy

Whether its people or ideas..... spending time hating...might as well hand over your time & energy on a platter.


Gotta give you a lot of credit for handling so much of it here on DU. Don't know how you do it honestly.

Here's a :hug: for ya, Skinner.

:)DR

[lumberjack_jeff]

74. I hate the idea that Dems succeed by doing everything we can to get Repub acceptance.

I hate that idea. I don't really hate the people who think it, they just frustrate me.

Two observations: 1) its should be unsurprising that for the admin to find that; "the feeling is almost always temporary". You aren't forced to live with your antagonists.
2) I also hate the idea that political debate can (or should) be conducted in a way that it won't offend the individual with the thinnest skin.

We're here because we want Democrats to win. To make that happen, someone's ox will get gored.

[Blue_Tires]

75. not quite

i will say i get tired of being pissed off all the time

[enki23]

76. Sure. But the only way for me to avoid it is to stop caring.

Or to stop paying attention, which is functionally equivalent. I do both for a little while, anyway, but never for too long.

I think the worst part of the problem is that this site is devoted to politics. We're trying to change things that are very, very fucking difficult to change. If they were easy problems, or personal problems, we wouldn't be so continually frustrated. If we were all alcoholics getting together, we'd all be on the same page. And we all would know that there was at least a real chance we could do something about the problem we care about. It would be a more selfish sort of problem, with a selfish sort of solution. But politics, obviously, isn't much like that. There aren't very many easy problems, even in theory. And so, ideas of Democracy aside, any one of us (or even a small committed group of us--sorry Margaret) has very, very little power to do much about it. Yes, we have a (sometimes quite limited) ability to structure our own lives in such a way as to avoid at least some of the worst problems. But that isn't really the part that angers us so much. Some of us just bitch, because we don't know what else to do. Some of us try to change things, even though we know there isn't much chance we can. Because sometimes things get a little better, and somebody somewhere succeeds a little bit. Michael Moore makes a movie, and we can thrill to the idea of other people being pissed off by the same things that piss us off. A bill containing some shred of human decency actually passes in the Senate. Some corrupt Republican motherfucker goes down in flaming scandal. But mostly those little things just remind us of all the big, big things that aren't being done.

We're here because we care about justice and fair play, and everywhere we look there is precious little of either. And the sad truth is that we can't do a goddamned thing about most of it. So we're all really pissed off all the time. Frustration is a killer. But I'd rather be frustrated, and die young, than be a feckless moron who didn't care, or know enough to. So I suppose there it is.

Still, I suppose it couldn't hurt to be nicer to each other, when the Cortisol levels aren't peaking anyway.

[Toasterlad]

78. I NEVER Get Tired of Hating Fred Phelps. Beyond That, I Don't Go In For it Much.

Like a lot of people, I carelessly toss around the word "hate", but I don't really place much meaning behind it. It's just a figure of speech. My mom used to say, "It takes a lot of energy to hate someone", and I've always found that to be more or less true. REAL hate is an energy-sapper. So I don't bother with it too much.

For Phelps, though...I gots bottomless energy.

[Hawaii Hiker]

153. Phelps & the religious right clowns

I do hate them, as they are despicable people....I became aware of how deplorable the religious right was during the Ryan White ordeal.....

Phelps is the absolute worst, that bastard doesn't even qualify as a human...But other religious right leaders aren't much better....

[smoogatz]

79. I have the luxury of being able to step away

when things get ugly here. You and the mods do not (and that's reason number three I'll never volunteer to be a mod--reasons one and two: too busy, and I'd suck at it). My genuine sympathies to you. That said, I think the occasional DU self-purge is inevitable and ultimately healthy.

The Democratic party is an awkward and imperfect implement, and it's bound to disappoint us from time to time. Those with third-party leanings will declare themselves disgusted and leave. The rest of us will stick around and try to mop up the mess made by the corporate/Blue Dog/New Democrat/DLC capitulators. We'll support progressives who challenge same in the primaries. We'll give the good Democrats a pat on the back and give the bad ones the kick in the ass they deserve. Let the Naderites and the Greens and the rest of them go build their organizations from the ground up, clean and pure and free from the stink of money because they won't have any, and their candidates will never win as a result. I'll stay, thank you very much, and keep sticking bandaids on this big old, shambling, reeking Frankenstein of a political party, cobbled together from its mismatched parts. Why? Because under the layers of corporate fat beats the lion heart of FDR, still audible in the voices of leaders like Russ Feingold and Al Gore. In the left trouser pocket, you'll find the balls of John F. Kennedy, still waiting to be reattached.

The brain? Well, that's still up for grabs. At the moment it's dealing with some serious multiple-personality issues, and those things can be a bitch to sort out. But I plan to stick around awhile longer and see if there isn't some way I can help. Because the alternative, my friends, is to throw up your hands and surrender to the fascists. That's your plan B in a nutshell.

[rosesaylavee]

176. You speak for me smoogatz...

your post made me laugh and get teary-eyed ... this Democratic party is cobbled together with some odd mishapen elements but some parts are so incredibly, breathtakingly brilliant (Gore, Feingold, Dean, etc.), who could leave without looking back?

:thumbsup:

I am going to bookmark your response for reference later when I get disappointed yet again at something this party doesn't do. Thanks for this.

[smoogatz]

195. Thanks for those kind words.

Cheers to you, rosesaylavee.

:toast:

[glitch]

80. Hate is like drinking poison and expecting the other guy to die.

I heard this just recently and forget the source. If I remember the source I'll post it.

[Melissa G]

83. Great Quote, Glitch! Thanks for posting.n/t

[glitch]

93. I wish I could remember who said it. I hate that. ;) nt

[Madspirit]

130. I found several links

I found several links with that expression. Most credit it to Nelson Mandela. One credited it to Oprah...<g> It's a very great expression.

Lee

[glitch]

142. Awesome! That is where I heard it, someone was quoting Nelson Mandela, thanks for that. nt

[Madspirit]

147. Thank YOU

I've never heard that before and it truly is great...

Lee

[BlooInBloo]

216. Mandela it is! lol!

[dragonkeep]

205. Hatred is a poison

I read an article at Obsidian Wings, http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2005/02/hatred_is_a_poi.html#more that has stayed with me for the last 3 1/2 years. The danger of hating is that we could turn into Democratic versions of Rush Limbaugh and his ilk. I would hate that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

82. I am not in a hating frame of mind

I am righteously indignated.

There is a big difference.

[Divine Discontent]

184. I concur

and I feel we go in ebb and flow throughout our day of peak energy and also, there is a similar ebb & flow for a larger length of time like a month or year. I feel that the B*sh screwballs have hurt our inner psyche so much with their warmongering, mishandling, and general hatred of civil behavior and respecting the law.

I think we hate what a person does, and not necessarily the person, as I believe most people would rescue W from a burning car, but we find him abhorrent as a human being, but because we have hope, we wouldn't let him burn to death, and if we truly hated people - we'd have no problems watching him burn.

Now, some on here may very well say they would be sitting back and drinking a cold frosty one while this occurred, but hey, I can surely empathize with the lack of heroism for people of their ilk.

Great thread OP.

[blondie58]

85. thank you for this reminder, Skinner

and thanks to all of you administrators for what you do.

Yeah, I hate Cheney and Rove. Bush I just feel sorry for, as someone else stated.

But hate is such a negative emotion and can be so hurtful.



I will permit no man to narrow and degrade my soul by making me hate him. ~Booker T. Washington


Hating people is like burning down your own house to get rid of a rat. ~Henry Emerson Fosdick


A Rattlesnake, if Cornered will become so angry it will bite itself. That is exactly what the harboring of hate and resentment against others is - a biting of oneself. We think we are harming others in holding these spites and hates, but the deeper harm is to ourselves. ~E. Stanley Jones


Hate must make a man productive. Otherwise one might as well love. ~Karl Kraus


All men kill the thing they hate, too, unless, of course, it kills them first. ~James Thurber


Hatred is one long wait. ~René Maran


EDITED TO ADD-

I LOVE YA, MAN!!!

[Klukie]

86. Hate is so negative.....

so I generally try to avoid it. Over the past 6 years we have gone through a wide range of negative emotions that ultimately are manifesting into hatred. I think it started with shock, then briefly turned to disbelief before the unending anger reared its' head. IMO, prolonged anger will eventually turn to hatred. The problem with these emotions is that they can be deceitful and blinding to ones soul. I have witnessed folks who have lived a lifetime entrenched in anger and hatred and they are miserable , unproductive people. I refuse to take that path. I will keep my anger in check and be mindful to direct it at those who truly are deserving. I refuse to let hatred turn me into a bitter scornful person. Many have posted that when we get to weary, hateful, or angry that we should just take a break. I think that is a wise piece of advice. In other words, go and collect yourselves from the hatred.

[bridgit]

87. 'some people are only happy when they're unhappy', I know that's true...

Others only happy when they have the impression they've disrupted something, or gotten under some skin somewhere. Haggling over the price of a Persian rug is one thing. Haggling for the sake of haggling is for me a waste of my time & energy.

Being 'ignored' by people clamoring for tolerance in their lives is, for me, the definition of ignorance.

As with the skinning of a rabbit so as to suggest; there is more than one way to hate.

Having had hate cast upon me, even here, like a foul, ill wind; I am not merely tired of hate, I am done with it.

[shireen]

246. good point

Others only happy when they have the impression they've disrupted something, or gotten under some skin somewhere.

Sometimes, i'll post something and get a weird response, and I wonder, what set that off?! Guess I've been too naive.

[Vinca]

88. I don't know about the tired of hating thing, but it would be wonderful

to have one day - one lousy 24 hour period - of not becoming seriously pissed off about something. Guess that won't happen until the King is dethroned and the war is ended.

[Gregorian]

89. If you really want to know, I'll tell you. Yes.

I am very tired of it. It. I gave my answer, but I would like to just say what "it" is. For me, "it" is when people invade my life. As someone who is very sensitive to being invaded, I have had a very difficult time in this modern society. I could list the invasions. But there are really two that cause me hate. Civil rights invasions, and noise.

I've been relatively free of hate lately. But yesterday a gardener was working next door, and he had his rolling Cantina with a thumping stereo going simultaneously. All day. I am not the confrontational kind. So I seethed while trying to study with the walls thumping.

It's no different with Bush.

And there is where your question takes on it's full meaning. Bush is continuous. The logical result would be therefore the hatred is continuous. I conclude that we all have differing threshold levels above which we are unable to contain our lack of hatred. This is the thing you are talking about. And what the Dalai Lama talks about. And what Jesus talked about.

I present the solution. The impossible solution. Love thy enemy.

It's impossible. I can't do it. But let's try. Let's bring the Republicans on board. Let's work to not harbor the resentments that will ultimately cause our own demise. I being one of the weakest among you, will try. My gardener is coming back today. I'll try.


Edit- Just as I posted this I realized that I am not endorsing all behaviors. I'm not going to embrace the evil things that Bush and Cheney and his crime gang are perpetrating. But the answer is the same. We can only go so far with hatred. It's there for a reason. When it remains, we have not solved the problem that it resulted from. It's just a signal that says we need to make a change. Impeachment. A Democratic replacement for this fascist group. A new Congress to the left of this one. Those would all ease the hatred.

[Klukie]

98. Love thy enemy...

works for me. Thanks for the post.

[Shine]

90. I hate certain EXPERIENCES, but I don't hate PEOPLE

I don't even hate George W. Bush....which around here, is probably considered blasphemy. :eyes: He is providing us, as a nation, with the opportunity to WAKE UP and choose a different way of being because he personifies, in so many ways, being unconscious. He reflects back to us our collective disconnection from each other and our environment.

One of the things that bothers me most about DU sometimes is the constant vitriol and negativity that seems to pervade most threads. In my opinion, it drags down the collective energy of this forum. Yes, there's a lot of shit going on in the world, but there's a LOT of positive stuff happening, too. I think DU tends to get out of balance by focusing too much on what's wrong rather than on how to create a more peaceful world.

Personally, I am interested in stepping outside of the polarities of left/right;democrat/republican and instead choose to focus on our collective humanity and the understanding that, ultimately, we are ONE.

My two cents.

[rug]

91. This needs to be done periodically.

[Hydra]

92. Hate is rooted in fear

And there are a lot of scared people these days.

Do they have reason? Many of the ones here do. They see the writing on the wall.

I, myself, do not hate. I'm beyond fear now. I've been afraid for so long, that I've reached a new place- a place empty of hope, a place where I have nothing left to be taken from me.

In this bizarre place I inhabit now, there is nothing but action and non-action. Choices.

I'm angry. I burn with that anger. I'm confused, too. The world seems to be the same as it was last week, but in my mind, I know it's not. Laws are gone, if they were ever here to begin with. The foxes are dining well in the hen house.

There is clarity here, though. Will we accept our slide into oblivion, or will we do something effective to shut these people down?

For my part, I will do my best to educate the people that want to be educated, and I'll shout down the people that say that we shouldn't do everything and anything in our power to stop this.

"I think, therefore I am."

[Gregorian]

108. The Bush administration is a threat to America.

Different people perceive the threat differently. And we combine our own problems in, as well.

I just thought I'd post that here. I think it's really at the root of the anger. It's no different than a cornered animal. It's a natural response.

[Hydra]

151. True

Seen from that perspective, I've gone from being the scared cornered animal looking for an escape route to the angry cornered animal that will go through the force cornering me to escape.

The difference is the escape option. There is no escape for me.

[Gregorian]

161. I don't think they're a threat to us per se. But to the Constitution.

I am not afraid of these guys. Maybe I should be. And it's because they aren't going to be in office much longer. They'll do their damage, and we'll undo it. That has been going on since Reagan.

There is something I worry about though. If these guys do what we think they're thinking of doing, there may be forces from outside our country that come to put an end to it. Even that is a long shot. We have nuclear weapons. So I think it's another 8 year fluke, and waste of time and energy and resources.

But I am enraged by liars and thieves. It's hard to remain composed. That's why I watch the Daily Show and Colbert Report. It shows me that it can be done. A different perspective.

[Hydra]

164. Normally, I would agree

but we've reached an interesting point, or passed it long ago.

They've gone too far to simply pack up and leave.

That would be the best thing for us- if they all left, and took their pieces of paper with them.

They won't leave. Not willingly.

[The Straight Story]

95. Locking - Flamebait :) Seriously though, yeah - but a fine line between anger and hate

I get tired of being angry, but I know that ain't going away anytime soon.

It follows at times that we end up hating that which makes us angry (events and the people that enable those events).

I got over hating my X wife, even before she died, for what she did to me and my boys.

I don't hate the dems that piss me off.

I can't think of anyone I really truly hate, even bush - I just despise him :)

Love is more fun, and who ever heard of 'make hate, not war' - it just makes no damned sense...

So I think I will for a bit and make some love, because each time I do it erases the remnants of hate - it feels good to love.

Sorry for the rambling, I ain't awake enough yet to type :)

[Dervill Crow]

96. Yes, unspeakably tired of it.

Last night I was telling a friend about how annoyed I was with someone at work and she commented, "You shouldn't let her have that power over you." Duh! I've said that to my children. I know it bubbles over from the deep-down-in-my-core hatred that I have for the slime who are the REAL objects of my rage.

Funny you should ask this now, because this a.m. I told myself to snap out of it. It may not be possible, but I know I would be happier.

[eridani]

242. Your co-worker doesn't have power over you. She can't send you to Gitmo--

--or seize your assets without due process.

[THUNDER HANDS]

97. i hate haters

in my heart of hearts I hate haters and how hard they hate hating and i hate haters who hate hating with hateful hate.

I also hate the letter H.

[satya]

104. LOL! nt

[intaglio]

99. Hate, no; anger is my main emotion

Anger that a country I admire almost as much as my own has been so degraded by the baleful influence of the Neocons;
Anger that that degradation has so much influence in my own country;
Anger that people I count my friends are so harmed by such a maladministration as rules them now.

Hate? I cannot maintain hate or hating. If I saw Bush drowning I would try to rescue him in spite of the fact I despise him; if Cheney dropped with a heart attack I would administer CPR although I believe him to be a cruel, calculating monster -

and in that is the difference between my ideals and theirs

They hate, and feel able to justify any number of deaths because of that hate. I am angry, angry enough to try and fight these selfish apes, angry enough to support others who oppose this heartless regime. Their hatred of the "common man" (an evil term because no human is "common") is such that they wish to rule without check. I like people - though I may not like what they believe - and am angry enough to try and help them against the haters.

Hate is counterproductive, because hate is met by hate and is undirected. Yes, you will hate the regime but you will also hate those you see as supporting the regime in any way. People who hate are also free to fear and fear is what those who would rule you would love you to feel. Hatred and fear allow people to be controlled. Hate and fear have always been the tools of the tyrant. In the case of DU people who maintain their hate also fear; they fear, above all, the continuation of the regime.

I see fear in the attacks by partisans of one or other of the Democratic candidates against the others. These flame fests errupt between people who all want to see an end to the corrupt manipulators currently rulling the USA but are blinded to that simple truth by fear. What is the fear? It goes by many names "DINO", "Corporatist", "Unelectable" any one of the hundreds of insults that fly about; but all it is, is fear. That fear that the people who wish to destroy the America you (and I) love will be able to continue their work.

My antidote to hatred and fear is anger. Anger trumps fear and can be sparked from hate. Anger motivates as much as hatred but is not aimless. A good analogy might be that hate is the wildfire, anger is the fire of the forge; they burn as hot as each other but one destroys the other provides weapons.

Please folks, drop the hating. Hating will destroy you.

[Breeze54]

100. I don't hate but I am sick of clinically depressed people. on DU, sharing their disease.

:kick: & Recommended.

[ZombieNixon]

102. My hate is too good for some people

:P

[applegrove]

103. Thanks for laying it all out Skinner. You definitely has a job that requires

lots of tightrope walking. And you do it very well. I rarely see a thread locked or whatnot. You keep us honest and let us fly at the same time. Good job.

[Individualist]

105. I'll never tire of hating DLC

If you do a google search for DLC wants to undermine the Democratic Party, you'll find 46,400 hits or DLC enables neocons, 26,400 hits.

Just two of the many examples you'll find;

This is why the DLC is dangerous. For all their claims of supposedly wanting to help Democrats, they employ people like Marshall Wittman who specifically try to undermine the Democratic Party, even if it means he has to publicly defecate out the most rank and easily-debunkable lies. They reguarly give credence to the right wing's agenda and its worst, most unsupportable lies. They are the real force that tries to make sure this country is a one party state and that Democrats never really challenge the Republicans in a serious way.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/why-the-dlc-is-so-dangero_b_13640.html

Without a doubt, the DLC is the most fundamentalist organization within the caucus, the most ideologically rigid, and the most destructive to the progressive cause.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/5/24/1712/23448

[LoZoccolo]

109. I get 154,000 hits for Mikey died from Pop Rocks.

I get 719,000 hits for Oasis are better than the Beatles.

[Poll_Blind]

285. ?

n/t

PB

[xultar]

106. Yes.

[npincus]

107. Yes, but not a proactive-hater, a reactive hater

unable to help myself in these Dark Times.

[Perry Logan]

110. I regard Republicans as an infestation--like tapeworms. They fall below the threshold of hatred.

[Bluerthanblue]

112. oh yes,

more than tired- soul weary


And, Thank you for this post Skinner~

peace,
blu

[LoZoccolo]

113. I think the worst part of all this is that people confuse...

...feeling the emotions that they have in reaction to the things going on with being engaged with the problem, and resolution of those emotions with fixing the problem. I think netroots politics is mostly a spectator sport.

[IronLionZion]

114. Excellent post Skinner.

Of course I get tired of hating, but this is a medium that facilitates it. Face it, I'm probably never going to meet even a fraction of the people here so it's far too easy to just be sarcastic and passive-aggressive with hurtful comments. Things would be different if we spoke to each other in person because I might get punched in the face.

These feelings do spread virally. Positivity can just as easily be spread around (maybe not as easily, but still) and we could have an atmosphere of optimism around here. That's pretty much how the negativity spreads. Sometimes the negativity has nothing to do with anything. But then again, we don't belong to any organized political party, we're Democrats.

Knowing that we could very well have 8 years of McCain or Giuliani invading Iran and selling the rest of country to corporations does tend to cause feelings of hopelessness and defeatism. Knowing that we could possibly have a Democrat promoting peace and prosperity with universal health care, good jobs, education, infrastructure, etc. can cause feelings of optimism and hope, especially if he or she has a Democratic congress with the courage to pass much-needed legislation and an informed citizenry that supports it. I want America to be healthy, educated, and confident, but of course it probably starts with me.

[Me.]

116. If Everyone In The Country Asked Themselves That Question

We mught have peace.

:thumbsup: Skinner

[mvd]

117. I save my hate for the regime

Not for those on my side. But I have to fight off the inevitable rage fatigue when it comes to this maladministration.

[sniffa]

118. i agree, the bonds haters are over the top

[Sock Puppet]

119. It's hard.

I really don't want to hate. It's not healthy.
But just reading the news can get me so angry, so outraged, that it's hard not to hate. So then I unplug...but then I'm not doing anything to make a change.
It's hard to find a balance.

[NashVegas]

120. I'm Tired of Being Told to Hate

I find myself increasingly losing patience with DU posters who write that I'm supposed to hate this group, or that group, rather than try to understand their position and seek a work-around, when possible.

With increasing frequency, I find myself taking a challenging position, with not so much tact - though I suspect it wouldn't make much difference.

[grasswire]

122. you gotta remember...

...that some people who post here do so deliberately to divide Democrats. That is their mission. Some of the rancor is engineered.

[nashville_brook]

123. hate is the cold we have caught -- "impeach!" has become our gesundheit

the more this maladministration is allowed to continue, the less control we feel and the more we hate those things that keep us locked in this death spiral.

Skinner, i don't agree with your stance on impeachment (that we don't want to tit-for-tat with impeachment), but i DO agree with your pragmatism. we need real change and real solutions, not more theater. i've come to the conclusion that the only way to get to "real change" is to use impeachment proceedings -- it's just THAT bad.

"impeach" has become the gesundheit for every bush sneeze and THAT isn't productive either. bush is contemptible. i too turn away from from smirking mug because the only emotion it conjures is paralyzing hate. his condescension and the media's complicity is TOO MUCH TO TAKE on most days.

i think we all have the feeling that we've been stuck in a nightmare since 2000 and all it's going to take is one last episode of freefall and we'll wake and it will all be over -- or maybe we think we'll be able to slay the monster by calling it by its name (as Olbermann does in his special comments), but that doesn't stop the madness either. we're losing are fracking minds with all the "crazy-making" shit we deal with every single day (if we're participating here).

pragmatically, we need to stop bush/cheney before things get worse (and they can always get worse). impeachment is our only recourse right now. emotionally, we need a channel for all this negative energy. we already see the cleansing joy that comes from investigating the bastards.

when the FISA bill went down the shittubes all our negative energy metastasized as hate. it's been a long time coming. our hate isn't misplaced -- we've come it honestly. we can't to stop hating until things get better or we stop paying attention.

all the "bye DU" threads are the result of people throwing in the towel. we're tired. we need to see some change and we need it yesterday.

[Magrittes Pipe]

124. Tired? Of course.

Hatred is a cancer that grows and devours everything inside. When I hate, it wears me out.

The rub is simply this: when I am wronged, I can forgive. However, when people I love are the victims of violence -- physical, mental, or emotional -- I cannot forgive. Fuck with the people I love, and you have an enemy for life. Period. It's not a hate I choose, it's a hate that chooses me. Those who dare injure my family and friends will be hated. Forever.

And I may tire, but it is the weariness of the righteous facing a determined and wicked foe. It is the same weariness we all face when confronted with the Bush administration. There are vile, cruel, evil people in this world; and I will go to my grave defending those I love from such villains.

[Miss Chybil]

125. You reminded me of a saying, "When you hate someone,

(I think it really says, 'harbor resentments against someone'), all you're doing is giving them free rent in your head." Thanks for that. I think I'll take a break from DU and George Bush for a while and get some of that cranial square footage back.

Have a great day, Skinner and everybody else!

Catch you on the flip side!

[CrispyQ]

133. Thank you for that wonderful saying!!

It comes at a good time.

Enjoy your break!!!

:hi:

[Xenotime]

126. Hate can't even come close to my feeling for some people...

[DJKDJKDJK]

127. Interesting question

I have no idea. I think I've just become a hater recently...stepping outside of your bounds. Who will save me from hating, that is the question? Or can I only save myself.

I think that is why I support Kucinich, because he's all about peace. The question is, what came first, chaos or peace? Or did they originate from the same idea. I think there is more peace in the world than chaos...but chaos is a driving force. Chaos creates peace. I think we're seeing it now. However, some people want peace through submission, others want peace through conquering others and waking them up to the insanity around them. Which one are you?

www.dennis4president.com

[greyl]

128. Yes. It's better to identify with what we love, than with what we hate.

If energies are targeted to things we want to tear down, there's less left over for creating and nurturing what we want.

[Laurab]

129. Aside from Bush, Cheney, Rove and Gonzalez...

who I hate for what they've done for our country, I can't say I really hate anyone. And my hate for them isn't really hate I guess, because I don't know them. I'm so used to it now, that it doesn't really affect me or eat me up inside....much, anyway. And I wish I could stop, but they just keep feeding it. I can't feel sorry for bush - other people on here are much kinder than me.

I dislike the hatefulness often found here on DU, toward fellow posters. I don't understand it, really. I get angry at posters who tout their candidate by spewing RW talking points, or rumors, about another candidate, but after a while, it's just too silly to even get angry about, and certainly not worth hating anyone for.

There's a saying I think I got from AA, and I try to use it here - it's "take what you can use, and leave the rest" - I'm not always good at it, but I try. There are so many posts I've erased before hitting "submit", because some things just aren't worth arguing about, or responding to. There's so much negativity here sometimes, but the positive stuff far outweighs it.

The Democratic tent is a big tent, and DU certainly proves that to be true.

[Susang]

131. Hate's a pretty strong emotion

Usually doesn't just go away. Anger, dislike, negativity all tend to be transient, but true hate is far stronger than that. Perhaps if you are feeling hate for DUers, you need a break? I deal with thousands of people on a daily basis, via email and telephone. Sure they piss me off. I'll scream at my computer, yell at the telephone, but I always remember that they're just people and my customers to boot. They deserve more from me than disrespect, even when I get disrespect and anger from them. First, it's my job to treat them that way; second, they often are right. It's my duty to be more than fair and try to make them happy (within reason). It is my job. It's what I get paid for.

[goodgd_yall]

134. Anger or hatred?

I get tired of anger, but not hatred. I hate * and his minions (Rumsfeld, Rove, Gonzales, and numerous others, anyone who doesn't give a damn about the poor, the working poor, the future) and that is always with me. I feel anger intermittenly; it sometimes is righteous and other times felt for more personal, unrecovered reasons. I can't hold on to anger; it will wear me out and poison my relationships. Hate is more of a decision and involves rejection. I can hate and not act on it, that is, not do harm to the object of my hate. That's how I see it anyway.

[H2O Man]

135. I do not hate anyone.

Hatred and bitterness eat away at the person who experiences them.

[jodini]

136. I agree with you...

In general, I would say that I am not a hateful person. Republicans have a tendency to bring out the worst in me. I guess I mainly get tired of constantly monitoring the slow but relentless spiral down the toilet our country seems to be heading toward and the feelings of little ability to do much about it. Boy, that sounds pretty negative, doesn't it? That's how I feel though. Sometimes envious of the people who are unencumbered with concern for the chipping away of our freedoms and rights and the freedoms and rights of others. Mainly anger toward the people who are so clueless and ill-informed that they vote Republican or greedy and hateful that they vote Republican. I go through periods (weeks or months) that I just graze the surface of political sites because I really don't have the room or energy for any more outrage. This frustration is usually not aimed at other frustrated posters but at the leaders that do not hear and do not care about us nor our country.

[JudyM]

137. By reflecting on and reflecting each other's disgust we stay strong; but sometimes it's too pungent.

I don't hate, I loathe. I think loathing is less personally destructive. Intense aversion and disgust, as it's defined, is a step removed for me, whereas hatred seems to me to be an emotion that you harbor within yourself and feel personally a part of. Aw, hell, maybe it's not that different, but I try to not let it eat at me, whatever it is. I get furious when travesties of justice happen or are brought to light but I have to let them go, too.

I appreciate that DU is a place to vent that disgust, to commiserate and shake our heads in disbelief, to shore up our energies again to go out in the world and try to change little pieces of it. It's tough to read/feel so much negative emotion all the time on this site but with the constant barrage of instances of devastating greed and lack of compassion by the neocons and our dem leaders' apparent ineffectiveness in counteracting it, it's tough to find silver linings with any frequency.

[JuniperLea]

138. Hell yes!

I've mentioned it a few times in the past week or so. I am particularly tired of turning into what I hate! I said something snarky to someone just yesterday... I corrected a word they used... I hate when that happens to me and I uber hate that I pulled that crap on someone else! She laughed it off, and I apologized and thanked her for taking it so well.

Put your tinfoil hat on... I think it's a horrible plot! Hate breeds hate!

I started a positive thought/prayer/meditation thread the other day... it was a great success and it made me feel wonderful. I'm not the only one who walked away feeling better I'm sure.

You reap what you sow... sow hate, you get it back in droves.


Sowing the seeds of love, like an old hippie dippy:)

[AntiFascist]

141. I prefer to channel my anger...

usually toward the right-wing elements which support the administration. Most often the targets of this anger are the typical domestic right-wing supporters which may often be characterized by southern red states. This does not mean I am prejudiced against southerners, in fact I love encountering southern liberals. Other times I may direct anger against foreign influences often of Middle Eastern origin. Again, I am not prejudiced against people of Middle Eastern heritage, only angry at those few, far right-wing elements which enable the administration.

As "racial profiling" becomes more acceptable I fear that this allows people to generalize their anger into hatred towards particular racial groups. This is very dangerous, and ultimately unamerican.

[Deep13]

145. Pretty much have had outrage fatigue since 2002.

These days it takes something extra special to get my blood up. I don't know where anger or outrage end and where hate begins. Not sure if it is a difference in quality, quantity or perception..

[Madspirit]

146. I Wish I Could...NOT Hate

As someone with a mental illness in a world oddly ignorant of what that means...
As a lesbian...
As a woman...
As someone who has lived in dire poverty her entire life...
As someone who has been homeless for years on end...
As someone without health care or insurance...

I have a hard time NOT hating and not being angry in the world. IT does eat me up. I am very lucky to have found a therapist who sees me pro bono. She helps.

My girlfriend doesn't hate at all. I just don't get it. She hates NO one. She doesn't even hate Bush or Cheney or... Hate just isn't part of her soul. I don't know how she does it. Sometimes I envy her and other times I whisper "Pollyanna" under my breath. ...but I sure love her. She grounds me and she loves me and she holds my troubled head. Anger and hatred...I don't know how to get rid of them. When I was younger I knew how to channel them into action but now they just eat at me and I don't know how to use them for good.

Lee

[funflower]

148. “Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal ...

“Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else but you are the one who gets burned” — Buddhist proverb

Those bozos in DC aren't worth my anger. I'm much happier if I focus my energies on creating positive change, not getting high blood-pressure thinking about them.

[cadaverdog]

149. It's all Bill Clinton's fault

I could never understand the right wing's vandetta against Clinton, from day one. i would just scratch my head and wonder how someone could actually hate the President of the United States of America.

Now I understand.

[Madspirit]

150. You Have a Scary Name

"cadaverdog" :rofl: Cool.

...and welcome to DU.

Lee

[asthmaticeog]

152. Are you gonna sell this site to Rupert Murdoch or something?

:scared:

[goodgd_yall]

172. You have a good point

Actually my first thought on reading the OP was "Skinner, don't be falling for that Fox Noise crap" and then I went on to directly answer the question. Are DUers aware of how one of the freeper memes is "liberals are so full of hate"?

[Generator]

252. Yes we are

And clearly the point of this op is that we all must come together. Love one another. Love all the Dems. Forgive them. No more Dem hating no matter what they do or don't do. It's wrong to hate Dems. Okay to hate Bush. It's that simple.

[zabet]

155. I personally kicked the 'hater-ade' habit years ago.

That,of course, does not mean I am not subject to fits of rage now and again.

[19jet54]

157. Psychological War Tactics

It is easier to attack your enemy if you hate him, unfortunately it sometimes overflows onto your friends when you get worked into a frenzy - Friendly Fire!

After the election, things will calm down?

[JerseygirlCT]

158. Oh yes. I try very hard not to hate the person, while I might very

well abhore the position.

But I also distinquish between a righteous sense of anger -- the kind necessary to affect positive social change, and a useless sense of hate toward a person or persons.

I do not always succeed, of course. Not by a long-shot.

But I try.

[graywarrior]

159. Hating someone give them power over me.

Bush is too stupid to hate. It's like hating a pea brained moose blocking your hiking trail. I have a hard time differentiating between repulsive disgust and hate. The thing Bush and his flying monkeys do make me want to hurl grenades, but I am running out of steam in the hate department.


But then there's Mitt....grrrrrrrr. I could build up a good load of hate steam for that bastard.

[devilgrrl]

160. Quite frankly, it makes my chest hurt. Yes, I'm sick of it.

:evilfrown:

[formercia]

162. I don't hate anyone

but assholes are fair game.

[Prophet 451]

163. Yep

Hate is a powerful emotion, takes a lot of energy. After six years, I've kinda been worn-down, the best I can come up with now is a kind of dispirited animosity, a blunt hatred.

[LittleClarkie]

167. I went up to my Republican counterpart at the State Fair in full Dem regalia,

t-shirt, buttons and all, and asked him how things were going in his neck of the woods. To my delight, he answered in the same friendly tone "Oh, not bad. Mostly positive." I mentioned I'd gotten one or two driveby comments. Someone called me a communist the other day. "No one's called me a fascist yet" he answered. It was just the sort of exchange I look for and rarely get.

I try to be civil to the opposition unless they aren't willing themselves. Then I can get quite peeved.

Around here, when I offer a criticism on an issue or the activities of a person, I sometimes get called a hater, which is about as bad as someone asking why we hate George Bush, as if we had no legitimate beef or reason and just purely hated him for being himself. One should be able to offer civil criticism and have a civil discussion without being called a hater or a basher.

Yes I get tired of the hate. So I try not to. I sometimes fail. But I try not to.

[marions ghost]

187. that's a cute story LOL

State fair...hmmm...'communists and fascists can be friends' (a la high school versions of Oklahoma...yikes) At times these divisions seem so ridiculous...but after what has happened in the last 6 yrs we can't afford to take it lightly either.

[Banned_Wagon]

168. "So I'm not asking whether you were right, or whether that guy deserved it"

Who is "That Guy". :shrug:

[SoCalDem]

169. I can truthfully say that I hate no one.

I don't even "hate" *²stupid³. He is little more than a product of a foiled post-birth abortion.

He's not worthy of my angst.

I have disdain and loathing when it comes to him, but life's too short to waste it hating people.

People who are hated often don't even care, so why bother.

I prefer to spend my time trying to change things I can. No one will be able to change *²stupid³.. we just have to endure him and move on.

DUers who might choose to hate me, will find that I hold no ill will , and probably am too dense to even notice who hates me :)

There have been many injustices done to me, and I let go of the hate long ago :)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

170. Now Skinner, Why Always The Hit And Run Flamebait Threads?

Just kidding. :P

In all seriousness though, with as much flamefests I may get into at times and no matter how passionate things can get, I never have felt anything even close to hatred for anyone here. As soon as the post is done, so are the feelings. With each new thread and each new post is a new opportunity for seeing eye to eye or starting over. Though I speak for myself, I know the overwhelming majority of members here are the same way. Sometimes, though the posts can seem really harsh and hateful from some, in the end it's all more just being wiseasses or keyboard commandos then it is actually feeling hate. As an example, I know I've pissed more than a few off here to the point of their appearing to hate me. Yet when I posted a sincere request for prayers for my wife, after she was diagnosed with aggressive breast cancer, I received a huge outpouring of sincerity and caring from so many, including those that otherwise may have never done more than try to destroy my entire being within conversation.

I've ALWAYS found that to be the case on DU. On the boards, so many act so passionate and hateful. Yet when you talk to these very same people via PM, where the 'board persona' drops away, they all of a sudden become real people with really good hearts; all of them.

So I think sometimes it appears some hate, but it's more just a matter of their getting too wrapped up in the impulse emotions that can come from posting in a rapid fire environment.

But undoubtedly there might be some who do in fact hate or feel hate. In my opinion, if someone gets to the point of feeling genuine hate towards a poster, it is probably a sign that they have let politics or this board overcome themselves to too much of a degree, and that they need to take a break. At the end of the day this is just a message board, filled with just regular people of which all have good hearts. There's no reason to feel hate towards anyone here, and if someone does then they've let their issues consume them too much and too obsessively, and it's probably a good idea for them to take a breath and take a break.

[rosesaylavee]

171. One of the many things DU has taught me

is that getting angry and staying angry really lowers my ability to address wrongs I read about here. If I read the latest * and Dick exploit and my blood pressure starts to rise, I go to a different forum (other than GD, GDP), seek out journals of my fav DUers, or just walk away from the computer until I can read about whatever has happened more calmly. After getting angry, I find I have less energy to make the calls to my reps, less likely to pass on timely info to my email lists and friends, and ultimately it ruins the rest of my day. And that feeling, if not snipped in the bud, can last the whole week depending on what the crazy RWingers are up to in a given week.

I need to stay 'up' so I can act. It's that simple with me.

There are only a small contingent of DUers that get under my skin - if I am wise, I don't respond in anger. The ignore button gets used in extreme cases which is more reflective of my own ability to cope with a certain response or attitude rather than the other DUer. This is something I am stilling learning. :7

Good and timely post, Skinner. You are a wise one.

[BeHereNow]

174. I don't hate anyone- not really- stupidity and greed however, tend to annoy me to no end.

My two cents.
BHN

[porphyrian]

175. Yeah, it's exhausting. But, once you've pissed other people off...

...you can't go long before someone's giving it back to you again.

What I'm really tired of, though, are the things and people I love being attacked, destroyed and killed.

[obiwan]

177. It's hard to remain optimistic...

...when others hate YOU for perservering in saying and doing what's right. The soul can only take so much and then it gets tired. I have been active in doing the right thing for four years now, and my soul is tired. I just want to move out to the wilderness, hide, and let America eat itself. I need at least a little happiness.

[Forkboy]

178. I want to hate some people but I just can't muster it up.

Even Cheney and Rummy,as evil and fucked as they are,don't make me reach that point.I actually pity them quite a bit.I can't imagine being that kind of person and living my life in those heads with those fears and insecurites.

Sometimes I'll say I hate something,like earlier when I said to a friend that I hate summer and the sun,but I don't really mean hate.Just extreme annoyance. :)

[zippy890]

180. hating is wasted emotion

I don't hate anyone.

I get annoyed and irritated at times at disrupters and people who seem to have it out for other people here and love to beat the dead horse. I try hard not to be too negative or snarky towards anyone here, sometimes do not succeed at that as much as I would like.

these are frustrating times for us, we should try to not take it out on each other.

[Uncle Joe]

182. We had a thread here a few days ago, titled What do You Hate About Bush?

I filled my post with about ten reasons, with a goal of reaching twenty one, and then canceled it because it was Friday and I didn't want to start my weekend off in a hateful mood, hate can be emotionally draining.

I try to live my life using the philosophy of hating the behavior and not the person, but sometimes that's just nearly impossible, I have yet to reach that upper stage of enlightenment where I can do so with out exception, but I'm trying.

Just curious Skinner, what do you think about Cheney?:evilgrin:

[mmonk]

183. I just wish life in America could be normal again

with no great lies dividing Americans, putting our country in jeopardy, and effectively getting rid of constitutional guarantees and checks and balances. I hate no one here ever, and my hatred for the extreme right is narrow. But I'm really tired of being angry and outraged.

[redqueen]

185. You're goddamn right I do.

That's why I NEVER hold grudges.

Not enough energy for that shit.

Like you said... feel it, recognize it, let it pass. It's natural to feel it... it's not natural to nurture it.

[Rainscents]

190. Hate is opposite of Love...

Recently, I went through major spiritual change and once I've learned to stay neutral about someone I dislike... I no-long feel hate for anyone. Instead, I am learning to love the person I disliked.

[redqueen]

192. Yeah... it's not the person, though... it's their ACTIONS I hate...

or their fucked-up ideas of right and wrong.

No way to stay neutral about that stuff, that I know of.

[NuttyFluffers]

201. hate is the extreme complement of love, apathy is the opposite of both

hate and love are degrees of passion on one side of the coin, indifference is the absence of passion on the other side. passion/dispassion are the yin/yang. (yes, terry prachett was right)

remember, to hate some "thing" requires intense love of another "thing." hate is just the manifestation of disapproval in defense of one's love. some forms of the disapproval can be destructive. but this is no different than the fact that some forms of the acceptance of love can be destructive. and going further, even certain levels of apathy can be destructive.

so know that all forms of existence bring pain and passion, as well as stasis and nullity. it is inescapable, and in all forms you shall suffer as well as rejoice. feel what you need to feel and feel no shame in it.

[undeterred]

188. A basic Quaker belief is that there is 'something of God in every person'.

Its not a dogma, its a way of being in the world. It's a learned discipline. And even people who have praticed it for a long time will say its hard to find that in some people - without saying something trite like "he must love his family", or "maybe he's a good tipper". If you don't believe in God you can still look for the "light" or "goodness" and I think you know what I mean.

So instead of looking for the bad in people, which I find incredibly easy and sometimes quite obvious, sometimes I really try to see them as people God deliberately made to be in this world for some good purpose, even if I can't see it. Its hard to be positive on a messageboard because sometimes the momentum is going so strongly in the other direction that it just rolls you back the other way.

So I can't start with Bush. But start with the person in the next cubicle. Or start with Mitt Romney or Joe Biden or Hillary. If you look for the goodness its easier to love. Helps to start with the easy people and work your way down.

[derby378]

196. But there are those who embrace the silencing of "that of God in every man"

And it's something we must keep on guard for. Fascism, communism, and any form of totalitarianism takes direct aim at that Quaker tenet, and Quakers have had to deal with such governments in the past, especially when it came to spiriting Jews out of Nazi-controlled Germany.

[undeterred]

203. Its recognized as powerful, as is a certain kind of pacifism.

[derby378]

211. I admire pacifism, but I don't begrudge those who own guns, either

[Exiled in America]

193. Hate yes. APPORPORATE ANGER? Never.

[MrSlayer]

194. No, not really. But I don't get tired of loving either.

I only give what is deserved.

[democrank]

197. I don`t hate anyone, Skinner, but

I do loathe certain conduct. I`m old enough and wise enough to know that I do have to pick my battles. There`s simply not enough time (or energy) to waste on insignificant bullshit.

[Poll_Blind]

198. ~200 replies later, did you get the answer(s) that you were searching for?

I guess I'm wondering, do you ever get tired of hating? Or is it true that some people are only happy when they are unhappy?

PB

[JanMichael]

199. Not hate but red hot contempt. And no, I don't.

It's justified and it bothers me that more people are not apoplectic.

[Plaid Adder]

200. Dude, I NEVER hate on DU!

Well, not having read it much for the past 6 weeks probably helps...but seriously. It's a huge community, shit happens, and sometimes it's pretty crazy here, but fundamentally it's a great community and a really well-run website.

I hate a lot of what's happened in the 21st century, but I've never hated DU.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[cornermouse]

204. I almost never hate. I do however get angry.

And somtimes forgiving is really hard to do.

[conscious evolution]

208. It was eating me alive.

That is why I have not been posting for a while.It got to the point where I needed to step back or end up IBTS'ing myself.

The wierd thing about it,though,is I am glad I got so wrapped up in it.Otherwise I would not have figured out what the antidote for hatred is.



From the city to busy for hate,
Peace and Love to you all!!
CE

[Seabiscuit]

209. What exactly is it that leads you to believe that there has been a lot of "hating"

on DU for "these last few days"?

The anger people feel about the betrayal of our Constitution by those 41 House members and 16 Senators? Anger isn't "hate".

The ennui and disgust people expressed over Will Pitt's public self-pity party when he made his drama-queen exit from DU last Saturday? Ennui and disgust åren't the same as "hate". People expressed a lot more contempt for Pitt during the Truthout/Rove indictment scandal Pitt created here over a year ago. And his supporters expressed even greater contempt for Pitt's critics. Even you got a couple of earfuls of bitter, hostile, drunken blather from Pitt himself for having the temerity to raise your own doubts about the Rove story, and for not, in his view, "standing with" Pitt no matter what, right or wrong (yup, even you got a full blast of the hot air blown by his delusions of self-importance). But I wouldn't even characterize any of what happened during that month-long public meltdown as "hating". It was just really bizarre to behold.

The infighting among DU'ers who support different Dem candidates for President? That's business as usual, and nothing new and just confined to the "last few days". And hardly "hating" each other.

Like everyone else here, I don't read all the threads in even one forum, much less most in the main ones.

So I must have missed something really, really big for you to post this.

[ulysses]

210. sure.

Doesn't mean I'm going to pull back, though.

[Usrename]

212. The reminder from Bluebear:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x991267

[BlooInBloo]

219. Nice.

[Babsbrain]

213. This site is not about hate...

This site is about the utter and total frustration and helplessness that good people feel, thanks to the most conniving, corrupt, and criminal leadership in the history of this country.

[tavalon]

220. Damn, is this ever timely on a personal level

A new partner told me that in my us vs. them mentality, I was a bigot. Threw me for a loop, it did and I've been dwelling in that uncomfortable place since. I've never thought of myself as a bigot before but he hit home and I don't really know what to do about it. I don't generally feel hate towards the people here because I perceive most of them as "us" but I've had no love for "them" and there is the sticky point and not only that, in the labeling, I am doing exactly what the Bush administration wants. They want to divide and conquer and they have done a stellar job with "us" and "them" as their especially good point men.

Since I've been having difficulty in my personal world, I've pretty much missed this round of DU ugliness but I've seen it enough and sadly, participated in some of it. I am tired of the hate and don't like the person in the mirror much right now.

[Time for change]

222. I don't think I can answer that

I hate Bush and Cheney, and I've hated other people before. As far as I can recall I've never hated a DUer.

Do I ever get tired of hating Bush and Cheney? My first inclination was to say that yeah, sure I do, hate is bad for everyone. But no, I can't say that I'm tired of hating them. I guess it just feels so right.

[Faux pas]

231. I'm not a hater, but I do get f-ing tired of being pissed. Ignore

is my friend. So far I only have 2 DUers on that list....the way things have been here lately that list could get a whole lot bigger! LOL

[SarahB]

232. Yes, and I don't.

Probably it's also why I don't post a lot in GD. I often found that after saying something reasonable, I got a bunch of hate and vitriol thrown at me. I find everywhere in the online world there's someone ready to get angry, defensive, or just plain nasty. Why? Good question. :shrug:

I get upset at the state of the world and do what I can to express my views frequently, yet tactfully and I remain as active as life allows. I don't let the "hate" of people who have no clue who I even am (i.e. the corrupt leadership that exists in our country) take over my spirit and make me miserable. It does piss me off that I pay thousands in taxes every year to an unjust war instead of to the people in our world who need it, but I'm sure as Hell not going to let the bastards control me any more that that. I'm ultimately a positive person and it usually serves me well.

[Warren DeMontague]

234. Aint no time to hate.

Barely time to wait.

Hell, I'm not even sure I "hate" Bush, although I'm sure the right would label someone like me a "Bush-hater". I could even live without him facing a full legal accounting for his extra-constitutional activities. I mostly just want to see him safely escorted off to a comfortably harmless retirement existence in Crawford, and the sooner the better.

What is hate? Hate is the inability to see oneself in the eyes of others. I think Bush and company are suffering from a number of what the Buddhists would consider 'maladies'; cold cynicism, fear, certainly a ton of greed. Driven by a short-sighted view of the world and others. I do believe there are "evildoers" in this world, but I don't think that too many folks wake up one day after reading Richard III and decide to become a comic-book, two dimensional, villainous "bad guy". I think the "bad guys" are mostly acting from places, again, of cynicism, greed, fear, as well as oftentimes an unwavering conviction that they are right, they are the "good guys", and the other fella is evil personified.

Indeed, the worst atrocities often seem to be done by folks in that frame of mind.

I realize that the right mocks liberals as wanting "everyone to hold hands and sing kumbyah".. I'm under no illusion that anything like that would take place or solve any of our very real and pressing problems- but I also understand that invading countries and trying to "liberate" them at the point of a gun barrel is a piss-poor way to "free" anyone. Likewise, I think "hating" Republicans, or Fundamentalist extremist nuts of whatever religion, or whoever- is a weak way to effect the change I know needs to take place in the world. Look, I know evil exists; I come from a Jewish family, I had distant relatives die in the camps- and I've been to Yad Vashem and had my heart broken with the sorrow there... but even when confronted with something of that magnitude, who to "hate"? The Germans? Fascism? How about the hate that takes root in people's hearts? Maybe that's where the hate should go.

Hate hate, make war on war.

[PatSeg]

235. Thank you for this topic!

I think it hits home with a lot of people. I can't say as a rule that I generally "hate" any one person, though I might hate their actions. Over six and half years I've felt "hate" growing within me and eventually it was directed at the people responsible for the many criminal and destructive acts against our democracy. It is exhausting, as well as depressing. It is getting harder and harder to push away from it all to focus on more positive aspects of life.

The problems people face today are so overwhelming and it is hard to sustain the outrage. Eventually depression sets in, as more and more people are affected by the actions and decisions this administration has made. Of all the sins they have committed, the loss of hope could be the worse.

Yes, I am truly "tired of hating".

[DancingBear]

236. Exactly how does a "Fuck Nader" avatar contribute to lessening the hate?

Just wondering is all...

[demgurl]

238. I went through a spiritual journey a while back....

and while I feel outrage, I do not think I feel hate. I used to cling to hate and revenge as if my life depended on it. I would live with it for years and seek to avenge and perceived wrongs as long as possible. When you have that much hate inside you you tend to react with madness and hate to almost everyone. That is a bad way to live.

Luckily I had an epiphany a while back and have learned not to hate or seek revenge. When people attack me now I usually tell them that I felt what they said was rude and hope I took their words the wrong way. They usually act very courteous after that. When I say something out of line I also try to set it straight.

I have found the forgiveness that was hidden deep inside of me. I have forgiven my rapist. I have forgiven my father who beat me up when I was pregnant. I do not have him in my life because I do not wish to put my children in jeopardy but I wish him no harm. I have forgiven my mother who embezzled tens of thousands of dollars from me. I know she did it because of an emptiness she feels and tries to fill it with materialistic things. I have reached out to an old high school friend my mom used to get along with. I have asked her to be the family that my mother has lost. (she embezzled money from everyone in the family and now no one will speak to her) I hope my mom will use my friend as a substitute daughter (she will not speak to me any more since I hired a lawyer) and perhaps she will begin to feel a love that will fill up some of the emptiness that has caused her to do the things she has. I wish her well and hope she will find true happiness instead of happiness in items.


Yes, I was tired of hating and it made me a not so nice person. Forgiveness has helped change my life, my attitude and many more things. It has set me free.

[sagesnow]

239. Jesus threw the Corporatist ,Capitalist,

Moneychangers out of the Temple after a fit of righteous indignation. At times, correctly directed anger is the only thing that will clear corruption from an organization or country.

[demobabe]

240. I've got so much else going on right now I can't be bothered much with strong emotion

I just get irked anymore and then put the upsetness aside and go on to something else. Every day I read something in the news that irks me, but I'm just resolved to do whatever positive actions I can to make things better for myself and others despite how hard it seems sometimes.

I'm bothered by how hateful our culture has become in general - it's to the point I'm not sure we have much culture left that isn't a profit-optimized low-quality corporate controlled product. I think this is what is making a lot of people miserable and hateful along with poor quality corporate food. I know that may sound nuts, but it used to be you'd talk to strangers and people would joke with each other and be playful. It isn't like that anymore as people steer their shopping carts through the store, completely oblivious to everyone else. Hateful. Sad.

The DU itself is a more hateful place, too and that's sad. But the thing that bothers me the most is the appearance of obvious trolls and the lack of a community based solution to police disruptors (instead relying on a few moderators). I've seen great threads go down in flames because either 2-3 people hated the poster and decided to make the OP's thread unreadable, or trolls polluted the thread with irrelevant information to kill the original ideas it contained.

It's sort of like having a group dinner where somebody's kid keeps throwing a fit and so the rest of the dinner is disrupted. We all had something to say, but the conversation is lost and the only thing anybody can talk about is how disruptive the kid was. We're not going to change anything if we can't have intelligent civil discourse.

I'd like to stop talking about how we're talking, bitching, complaining, moaning, etc. and get focused back on actions.

[ozymandius]

243. I know people who are addicted to the misery that hate produces.

I too have been addicted to hatred - mainly of Bush and Cheney and the sycophant personality cult of followers. But is recent years, perhaps as little as two, the hatred I've felt has evolved into something like a medical emergency. Like a toothache that threatens to go to your heart. They simply need to be removed. So it's a sense of less than hatred and more like survival of what I always felt to be dear about this nation. And more to he point: my role as a citizen of the world that is responsible for helping ideas concerning respect for humanity, no matter what its culture or location, to arise.

Hatred that I feel for those who pervert causes, nationalism, creeds, religion, etc. are merely straw men. It's an issue that leads to nothing. Put a name to that hatred - those who personify that perversion - and you have something. There's always room for hatred. But it needs a target and high-minded spirit to properly sue its venom.

[shireen]

244. oh, i don't really hate anyone on DU. Some are damned annoying, tho'

But it hurts to watch the hate. And to be on the receiving end of the hate.

Hate is a powerful word. I've saved it for the truly reprehensible: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, a former back-stabbing co-worker .... Otherwise, it's all various degrees of annoyance.

Skinner, I'm sorry to hear about the "bullcrap" you have to deal with. But please also remember that you and the founding admins have created a pretty special place here on the internets, and that's a pretty neat accomplishment. :)

[NashVegas]

247. Hating? No. Being Annoyed, Yes

Unlike you, Skinner, if there is a poster I can find no value in, I have the luxury of the ignore key.

Annoyed, otoh ... while in the past, I've ignored annoyances, lately I find myself challenging certain posts I find boorish - as I once challenged boorish RW posters on non-partisan message boards. I reckon it doesn't soothe the atmosphere much.

The worst it ever was, for me, was during the 2004 primaries. I got so tired of that, I'm planning to no let it even start this time around, for my part.

ETA: I am tired of being told I should hate. I see a lot of that. Too much.

[1monster]

249. I realized in my teens that haters mostly hurt themselves.

It is soul destroying to hate; one can never have any peace, any contentment, or any happiness when one is filled with hate.

I find even anger hard to maintain, rightous or otherwise.

However, that does not mean that I cannot be filled with purpose and determination to right wrongs, to work to disposess the wrong-doers from seats of power, and to clean house of the abominations that are destroying this country and it soul.

Some people might take that kind of agenda as hating, but it isn't.

Haters' visions are clouded and black around the edges. They carry bitterness and resentment and anger like a thunderstorm over their heads where ever they go. Those who hate will burn themselves to a cinder and never understand why or what they have lost. Hating makes the hater ineffective.

To paraphrase Yoda, fear and hatred lead to the darkside.

[man4allcats]

250. Some guys in a bar were arguing,

and the peacemaker in the group asked, "Can't we all just get along?" From the other side of the bar a voice yelled in reply, "Aw blow it out your butt, ya damned happy face!"

Joking aside, your point is well taken. All of us realize that our nation is in serious trouble, probably the most serious trouble in its history. Even Barbara Boxer recently stated that the country is “closer to dictatorship than it has ever been”... There is no way to minimize the danger nor should it be minimized. Still, I think there are those among us who get a little too wrapped up in themselves. I don't take many people on this site too seriously. More than a few of them do a better than ample job of that on their own. There's no need for me to help them along. When Democrats start thinking "Democrat" means jackass, in the pejorative sense, I just try to recognize them for who they are, log out for awhile and go check out that other, unmentionable place. You should try it sometime. It's like a vacation.

[rsmith6621]

254. Skinner...I Think This Needs to Be A Sticky at the....

....Top of the page for a few days.....

[flyarm]

255. i never knew hate until my co-workers were killed on 9/11 and i tried not to hate

but it is impossible for me to not hate *..just impossible because i know his government , he and Cheny and the rest of the neo cons are nothing but filthy murdering liars..

i am old enough to know hate only hurts ourselves..but i can not get past the hate i have for these so called "people"..more like inhumans..

yes i am tired of the hate..but how can one not hate people who murder with no conscience? I feel as if i don't hate them, then i become one of them.

Is just condemning people for so many murders enough..i don't feel like it is.

Look what they have done in our name..my name..i hate them for that ..i hate them for each and every innocent life they have taken.

Do i get tired of hating them.,.no..i just get tired of trying to make them ..all of them accountable.

When Sept 11 th rolls around again..and i watch my neighbor cry for her son Jeff..how can i not hate those who have put this family through this?

When i know ..without a shadow of a doubt that * and cheney and the neo cons helped let 9/11 happen ..how can i not hate them?

My co-workers had children that now grow up without their mommies and daddys..

the hate for this administration keeps me seeking the truth, and helping people learn what and how everything failed on 9/11.

Oh and it failed .. everything failed..and that was not an accident.

Are there days that hate subsides some yes..but it is always there in my sub conscience..it never leaves..and it won't i fear until we get the truth..and i do realize we may never get the truth..and i also realize this hate may never leave me.

There is truth..somewhere the truth exists..

some hate is really bad..but some hate helps us reach for what seems insurmountable.

I use my hate for finding truth..

i use my hate for as much positive as i can find within myself..and when i think i can't do this anymore..i use the hate to keep me going..for if it takes till my last breath..the angels of 9/11 deserve the truth to be known.

their familes deserve that truth.

yes i do get tired of the hate..but i do not have the answers of how to do that.

fly

[bettyellen]

263. :hug:

[katsy]

256. Here's a hug and a song:

Lost for Words
(David Gilmour/Polly Samson)

I was spending my time in the duldrums
I was caught in a couldron of hate
I felt persecuted and paralysed
I thought that everything else would just wait

While you are wasting your time on your enemies
Engulfed in a fever of spite
Beyond your tunnel vision reality fades
Like shadows into the night

To martyr yourself to caution
Is not going to help at all
Because there'll be no safety in numbers
When the right one walks out of the door

Can you see your days blighted by darkness?
Is it true you beat your fists on the floor?
Stuck in a world of isolation
While the ivy grows over the door

So I open my door to my enemies
And I ask could we wipe the slate clean
but they tell me to please go fuck myself
You know you just can't win


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now smile and get on with administering, er, misunderministrating, er... what you are best at.

[provis99]

257. I just can't hate Bush

Why bother hating a pathetic loser? I think lowly of him, but don't hate him, because he amounts to virtually nothing. Cheney and Rove, as an earlier poster noted, are definitely people I hate. I don't get tired of hating them, I tire of them being in power, and giving me reason to get worked up.

[shaniqua6392]

258. I do hate Bush for what he has done to the children of America.

Not just my children. Just think of all the things he has shown our children. He let 9-11 happen. He has announced terror alerts that were nothing but bullshit with a color coded chart. He has created this stupid War. He has stood by while our soldiers die. He has taken away the civil rights of future generations. He has put us into serious debt to unfriendly nations. He allows our environment to be destroyed. He allows substandard products to come into our country.....tainted food, toys and toothpaste from China just to name a few. I guess I could go on and on but....I just hate him. I pray we can put our country back together after he is gone so it will be better for the children to grow up in.

[smtpgirl]

259. I'll SECOND THAT SKINNER

Maybe look closer to the people that you rely on.

Sometimes people take up for others because they feel sorry for them, some people take up for others because they don't have much, some people take up for others because they believe what they say, and some people take up for others because they don't know any better.

I don't hate, I just get frustrated and angry that some people here are favorites.

Some have posted here and dithered away (not by thier choice) some poignant points of view.

When I think of Democratic Underground, I think of others that have different philosophies and opinions different than my own, THAT IS WHY I COME HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not hate, I do not respect others that decide on their own, what is a good post, what is a bad post, where that post belongs according to the bylaws & rules of this forum, and WHO POSTS!!!!


Some people, are just SINGLED OUT!!

[Danger Mouse]

260. I don't think that we'll ever truly get tired of....

devouring ourselves voraciously.
:hi:

[rhett o rick]

262. I think Cheney, Rove and Gonzales should be sent to Syria for some

"heavy interrogation". But simple Georgie should be sentenced to work at the counter of McDonalds for minimum wage.

[emilyg]

264. The only person I hate is Hitler.

He destroyed my family.

[Apollo11]

274. Hating the dead

sounds like a waste of time to me.

And how many families has Bush-Cheney destroyed?

Starting with thousands of US soldiers' families.

Not forgetting hundreds of thousands of Iraqi families.

[emilyg]

282. With all due respect

You didn't live through what we did. No comparison.

[Apollo11]

291. Bush is not the same as Hitler

But with some of the things that this adminstration has done since seizing power in 2000 - I think you can make a certain number of comparisons.

Just like I can compare Earth to Mars - doesn't make them the same.

Fortunately, neither of us has lived through what the Iraqi people have lived through over these past 4 and 1/2 years (and counting). So let's not dismiss their suffering either.

And let's not ignore Bush and Cheney's responsibility for their decisions.

[Rex]

265. Yes and that is why I can't come here everyday anymore.

To easy to hate here, both kinds. Peace and mercy.

[libodem]

266. This has been one good read!

Very therapeutic. I believe the 'otherside' wants to portray 'us' as "haters". It's a good time to be philosophical about, (how was it put?) "drinking poison and expecting the other guy to die". What a thought-provoking post. DU not only makes me smarter, now, I'm spiritually elevated. Thanks. Bookmarking.

[althecat]

268. Very tired of it....

Dear Skinner,

Good question.

My anger tends to be directed at people that I fear may be professional trolls. However even with these peeps I try not to be hateful. Hate tends to hurt the hater more than the hated in my experience.

Sometimes when I feel pissed at people I let rip and then my posts sometimes get deleted. At this point I tend to realise its time to take a break... and then my anger subsides.

FWIW I do not think DU is full of hate. It is full of competing opinions and views and that is what makes it so good. That people feel pasionate about these views to the point of hate is also a good thing in general.

If you find there are people criticising your creation on this count then IMHO they are fools, and most probably threatened by the very real freedom of expression that is generally allowed around here.

And finally. These are exceptional times. People are bound to get fractious in these circumstances.

al

[EFerrari]

286. Only a furriner could use "fractious" with a straight face

no matter how apt the term is.

lol

[althecat]

290. Why?

[EFerrari]

292. Not sure. I've never heard it used in conversation outside of

the academy. :)

[buddhamama]

269. i get tired of the hate

the negativity drains me. and if i feel myself drifting toward 'hateful' feelings and potential bad behavior, i take a break.

[Daphne08]

270. I am very weary of being angry, so I've learned to take breaks

from the news, C-Span and the internet forums whenever the outrage becomes too great. I've found that it helps enormously to focus on other things for a while.

I don't want to become so angry that I end up hating anyone or anything because hatred is so destructive.

[symbolman]

271. I've thought for the last year or so

that like other words, the word "Hate" or "***-Hater" should be banned from this site. It begets itself, reproduces once it's entered the system..

It is a Vile word, I'd rather hear a thousand fucks, shits, etc than a single "hate" from anyone. It really does take on a life of its own.

Thanks for bringing this up, I've tried to lift the bar lately, felt so sorry for so many dampened spirits of late.

[Beerboy]

272. Sometimes I think so,

but not really.

[catch_of-the_day]

273. I never hate

but I loathe. I loathe Kool-aid drinkers and Bush enablers. Dems became Bush enablers 6 years ago

by voting “YES” for the USA PATRIOT ACT,
by voting “YES” for two illegal wars and subsequent funding,
by voting “YES” for Alito,
by voting “YES” for Roberts,
by voting “YES” for Gonzales,
by voting “YES” for Rumsfeld,
by voting “YES” to authorize Bush's spying
by voting “YES” in the Senate (97-0) for the resolution to threaten Iran

By removing language from a recent House Resolution bill authorizing Bush to attack Iran without needing congressional approval.

And I could go on and on and on. All of this doesn't even begin to cover the list from over 6.5+ years.

What's the recipe for the Dems' Kool-aid? Based on most posts on DU, I know it's pretty intoxicating stuff. And some of the side effects are rather dangerous:

wishful-thinking
delusions
gullibility
innocence

[Haole Girl]

275. Hi Skinner...

Hold on! Sounds like you could use some hugs. Sorry I didn't see this earlier.

My Mother used to say, "If someone hurts you badly enough, simply pretend they don't exist." It's difficult to do at times (though it tends to work, regarding George W. Bush, for me anyway).

I'm still trying to determine if I truly hate anyone on DU. There is one person who hurt me very badly... and their sidekick (whom I mostly just pity). But, hate is such a strong word. The bickering wears me out... and it's senseless. And, the negatively? It's sheer... and beyond exhausting. Just thinking about this has made me feel ill, to be honest. I almost envy people who thrive off of it -- how easy their lives must be... since hate seems to be so prevalent and enjoyable for them.

That's all I wanted to say. Though, once again, I've probably said too much.

Take care, Skinner. Please don't let this place make you old before your time! :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Kurovski]

277. I hate that the Hate Mailbag hasn't been updated since 2005.

I'd hate to think that the right-wing loves us now!

[Kurovski]

278. But seriously, hate comes and goes.

Letting go is a sure way to not tire oneself out. Moving on to the next thing, as mentioned in the OP, is best.

I'm sure George W. Bush was an adorable baby. Think about that when next you're inspired to hate the rotten stinking bastard.

[Guava Jelly]

279. Do i get tired of hate??

I get very tired of hate
I get tired of trying to persuade those who think poorly of me to think differently.
I have apologized and played nice and even went out of my way for a few.
Some people want to hate..
It feeds them.
It some how diverts them away from the problems they have in real life.
So easy is it for many to be cold and dickish to a perfect stranger.
I would bet my life that if half the sworn enemies here actually met their foes for a cup of coffee attitudes would change..
I'd put money on it
in closing

I do hate the entire Bush clan and the blind koolaide drunk apologist that fawn over him.

[stevietheman]

280. Hate, like cynicism, doesn't create.

I don't believe in hating people, although I sometimes momentarily have feelings of hate.

I definitely have profound disgust with the Criminal Bush Regime and anyone who would enable it. But do I hate them? No -- hating them is a waste of my time and my stomach lining.

I think most of America is on the same page with respect to these criminals. It's just that our Constitutional mechanisms have proven too weak to properly dispose of them. That's the deal.

All we can really do is continually expose their lies and extreme damage to our beloved republic, and hope for the best.

[Blue_Roses]

281. Just when we think all is lost, along comes a thread like this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1541714#1550316

I had no idea the kindness and support that would reveal itself when I posted this. I just knew I was in pain...

I've always been told there is fine line between love and hate, but when there is injustice, then hate rears it's ugly head.

[mudesi]

284. I hate conservatives, and I don't get tired of it. (nm)

:evilgrin:

[enigmatic]

287. Hate is the Crack Cocaine of emotions

And yes, there are people who are addicted to it just like those who are addicted to crack. And like crack, it destroys you from within, no matter how good it feels at the instant of the "High".

There are too many people on this board (and others like it)who love to hate, who transpose the anger in their own lives onto other targets that have very little if any to do w/ Politics; it's just a convenient target.

I'll be honest, Skinner; I gave up on DU (GD and GD: Politics)as a sounding board for debate for political and social policy over a year ago; I know you like to say it's never really changed over the years but it has. It's simply become a rant board for one issue axe grinders, those who think Democrats are as bad if not worse than Republicans, a haven for trolls (and though some love to say that those trolls are only coming from the most conservative wing of the Democratic Party, it's coming just as much from the "progressive" side as well), and in the case of GD: Politics, a bunch of posters acting as Swift Boaters for the candidates they deem not as worthy as their own.

So why am I still here? Because there are some fantastic writers here (Nance Greggs, H2O Man, and yes, Pitt if he comes back)who equal anything that's published in MSM. And for breaking news, it's unbeatable, and kpete is a treasure. And there still are posters here who don't buy into the "All Hate, All The Time" mindset that's made GD and GD:Politics virtually unreadable, but they are much fewer these days.

I get my political debate elsewhere and stay in The Lounge when I'm here, because it's just not worth the effort for me, I'm sorry to say. But I still have great fondness for DU, warts and all.

[Hekate]

289. Hating all things Bush burned me out, just as the sages said it would do;so yes, I got tired of hate

Buddhists say hatred of another is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

I have had to learn to at least not dwell on it.

Skinner, my friend, you are a treasure. The current atmosphere on DU is poisonous, and I thank you for asking us to think about what we each are or may be doing to bring it about.

Hekate

[cynatnite]

293. Hating wastes too much energy...

I get frustrated enough at times to say 'I hate bush' or whoever it's directed at. But real hatred...nope. Don't hate anyone. It costs too much energy, wastes emotion that is better directed in a postiive way, and is very nonproductive...at least for me it is.

The darkness of hatred is powerful and can overwhelm everything else. Kind of a Star Wars thing, I guess, but an apt description I'd say. For some people it's motivation and that can be a good thing, but I honestly can't see how it would be positive in the long term for anyone.

[DeepModem Mom]

294. I get more than tired of invective directed at anything not perfect in the eyes of the beholder --

other DUers, admins, other Dems, even media. This is not, and will never be, a perfect world. There will never be anyone who agrees 100% with someone else's views. I wish we could arrive at some level of acceptance for all who do not devote their lives to the causes of injustice and inhumanity, which certainly includes, I believe, all who come here.

There seems so much eagerness to, if not hate, destroy with words. Any Democratic candidate, IMO, should be exempt from this kind of treatment. Anyone in public life who works primarily on the side of right should be. Any member of the media whose words, if not perfect in our eyes, generally inform without promoting evil should be.

And if, after a time, there is change in a public figure, in a media outlet, there should be grateful acceptance of that, and not constant reminders of past sins, not a writing off forever.

I hold in contempt, however, most anyone who serves in the present administration, considering the evil I believe it has wrought in so many areas of the life of this world and its people -- and anyone who disguises promotion of this evil as news. I hate those who are cruel, especially to children or animals. I have little patience with willful ignorance.

Thank you for your thoughtful post, Skinner.

[cynatnite]

295. kicking n/t

[Poll_Blind]

296. Did you find the answers you were searching for? If so, what's your...

...conclusion?

PB

[Yavin4]

298. I Don't Hate, and I Don't Feel The Need To Invent Outrage Either

Too many people here invent outrage where none exist.

[Fire Walk With Me]

299. There are those who hate full-time due to knowing that they can't compete on a level playing field..

..and must damage anything that stands in the way of their agenda. They hate what proves them wrong. Bully Christians hate the concept of love and unity in the Bible. Republicans hate to be proven wrong as they wish to live in an unaccountable state. Some hate their own vulnerabilities and project it onto others. Whatever the case, these are continuous hatreds, and they raise the hairs on the back of my neck, whenever I encounter them.

Trying to outhate them doesn't work, because that's where these people live, full-time, and you just end up feeling dirty and not yourself. And they thrive upon the conflict. They only respond to self-interest.

I don't know what to do about the haters in the world. I just want a positive, supportive community for all, without egomaniacs ruining it for anyone that threatens them. With facts and truth.

Yeah, I'm weird that way.

Thanks Skinner.