I've received several expressions of support for Hillary Clinton from women I know

[bigtree]

Almost all of these women (including my wife) had another candidate in mind they wanted to support, but that hasn't diminished their approval of Sen. Clinton for president.

I've been thinking about the impact of a woman candidate, and I'm convinced that the response from women will be overwhelmingly positive if she manages to get the nomination. The attacks and criticisms directed at her (some well-meaning and fair; others obnoxious and ridiculous) seem to animate these women supporters to her defense in a way that I think will make her campaign mostly bullet-proof as these women spring to her defense.

I wanted to give my explanation for that phenomenon, but everything I write comes out feeling like just another male attempting to speak for females. Very weak. Maybe someone here can qualify these impressions of mine about the steamrolling effect I think her candidacy will achieve behind the hopes and ambitions of women voters (who regularly show up to vote in large numbers).

I will say that I think that there is a sense among SOME women that Sen. Clinton as president will provide an earth shattering affirmation of their own potential for leadership and success. I agree.


(Btw, I'm still pulling hard for Bill Richardson)

[Ron Green]

1. Maybe she's a WINO.

She sure as hell acts like a man, a man from the smoke-filled rooms where deals are struck and corporate power is maintained.

[bigtree]

2. I think that's a bit of a self-serving observation coming from a man

I know of scores of corporate, executive women who strike deals in back rooms.

[Ron Green]

4. Exactly what we need. A bunch of women playing Empire.

Jesus, I wish rather than women being more "masculine," men would learn from the "feminine" principle. You know, caring for people, making peace, facing fear in appropriate ways, stuff like that.

[bigtree]

5. All of that is just your own characterization of her actions

Those characteristics which you describe as 'masculine' are certainly not the sole province of men. Nor are traits like caring and peace exclusively feminine.

[alfredo]

3. My wife has been won over by Hillary. She was in Obama's camp.

[TahitiNut]

6. IMHO, her gender is, at the same time, both the worst reason to vote against her ...

... and the worst reason to vote FOR her. :shrug:

[bigtree]

7. yet, we do tend to support those we identify with

notice, if you will, how men will rally around perceived 'maleness'. Certainly there's a similar phenomenon of identification and some affinity among women.

[TahitiNut]

9. Yeah ... that must be why I support Kucinich, among others.

:dunce:

[bigtree]

11. I didn't mean to imply that ALL women would react the same

only that I believe there will be a reservoir of support from SOME women who will see her advancement as an affirmation of their own potential and will work against criticisms to make it so.

[TahitiNut]

21. While true, it holds for men as well. And I'll repeat ...

... that ANY candidate's gender is both, at the same time, the WORST reason to vote for them and the WORST reason to vote against them.

I'll go even further ...
When I read DUers saying things about Kucinich that equate to him being "unmanly" (e.g. "woo-woo"), I see the worst kind of gender stereotyping. It's really quite appalling.

Kucinich isn't the only candidate subjected to such gender stereotyping attacks. The attacks on Edwards' haircut can be seen in that light. ("Real men don't do their hair.") After all, how much traction would anyone get by attacking Hillary for getting her hair done, no matter WHAT the cost???

[peacebird]

13. as a woman - I look for "identification and some affinity" in my friends but for elected leaders

I look for leadership, support for the same ideas that I hold most dear, intelligence, and competence. Hillary has intelligence and competence but she doesn't stand up for things I hold as extremely important, and I don't see true leadership. Were she a true leader she would have marched to the floor proudly early in the voting to cast her vote against war funding instead of waiting til the bill was sure to pass before voting against it. I fault Obama for the same behaviour on this same vote.

A person doesn't automatically become the "right" person for the job because her gender is the same as mine - and to suggest such a thing is rather demeaning to the intelligence of women everywhere, don'cha think? Kind of like saying men in California voted for Ahnold because they identified with his biceps and abs.... Quite a shallow reasoning.

[bigtree]

14. I'm saying that I believe her gender will be a major factor for some women

like race and ethnicity are factors for some

[peacebird]

16. I find it a bit offensive that you believe women are silly, shallow creatures who will

vote for president based on gender - :eyes:

"Oh honey, Lookie! We have a WOMAN in the whitehouse! Ooooh! I feel so empowered!"

:sarcasm:

seriously....

[bigtree]

18. you completely misrepresent what I wrote. I asked for an opinion

I gave anecdotal observations

NO WHERE DID I SUGGEST IN ANY WAY THAT WOMEN ARE 'SILLY, SHALLOW CREATURES.

But, you must know that millions of Americans make their voting decisions on esoteric judgments rather than on issues we all here are so engrossed with.

(btw, I was so 'silly and shallow' that I supported, and was enthusiastic and defensive about Jesse Jackson's presidential campaign primarily because he's black, like me. That was early in my voting experience when my main issue was the defense of civil rights.)

[peacebird]

19. to suggest we women will vote for Hillary because she is a woman is to say women are silly creatures

by default.

[bigtree]

20. so, everyone who votes based on their identification with some characteristic of the candidate

outside of issues is silly? Now you're insulting. Many times folks generally feel there isn't much of a difference between candidates in the primary. Folks choose candidates for all sorts of reasons. Bravo to you for being so circumspect, but I think the majority in our society are animated and motivated by many things which may have nothing to do at all with the issues we are so obsessed with here at DU.

[peacebird]

22. then I wish society would wake up - look what voting for the "guy they'ld rather have a beer with"

got us.

Folks should educate themselves about the choices. Democracy is not a spectator sport.

[TahitiNut]

15. IMHO, the reason Clinton and Obama voted late ...

... was because they didn't see a crowd they could leap in front of and pretend to 'lead.' They saw which way the vote was going and, fully and completely aware that they have NO 'leadership' chops in the Senate, cowered at the back and voted at the very last.

This is one of the more fundamental reasons I admire and respect Kucinich ... he knows it's a matter of DIRECTION and not joining the largest crowd. He steps up and votes his conscience. Some call him a 'populist' but I see him as conscientious. ('Populists' - like Huey Long - are more often rabble-rousers than conscientious.)

[peacebird]

17. hadn't seen it that way - good chance you are right! I thought they

waited til they were sure it would pass so they could vote against and claim they were coming out strong against bushs war.....

but your reasoning works well also!

:hi:

[JVS]

38. That's how we end up with politicians who we'd like to have a beer with

[bigtree]

39. oh, I agree completely that votes should be based on issues and record

but, I wonder if we've moved past all of the surface judgments which seem to dominate in these campaigns?

[sybylla]

8. You'll have to count this woman out

I have loads of respect for Hillary as a woman. As the first lady she conducted herself with class and aplomb in the face of terrible, soul-bruising criticisms and attacks.

But I can't support her over a few others simply because she's a woman. I look at her record as a senator. I look at certain issues and her answers during forums/debates. And I find I can't give her my support in the primary.

[antigop]

10. Yes, I'm sure all of these women were swayed by her lack of a real healthcare plan. n/t

[bigtree]

12. and, that will be her challenge, perhaps

to keep these women in her camp with substance and a direction they can feel comfortable rallying around.

[antigop]

25. I'm afraid the irony of my post was lost on you. n/t

[bigtree]

27. most cryptic posts are lost on me

[antigop]

32. maybe so, but my post wasn't cryptic n/t

[Terri S]

23. yeah... and wasn't having a black woman as Secretary of State a great thing for the country!

:sarcasm: The point is...yeah, it would be wonderful, except that black woman was Condi Rice. And she is very intelligent and strong and experienced .. and well, you know how that turned out. You can count this woman out on Hillary. I base my decisions on the entire package. I'll really hold my nose on this one and vote for her if she's the nominee only because she's nominally better than Repubs..but I'm SO turned off by her, and have been for a very long time. And I truly believe if she's the nominee.. we'll never take back the White House.

[bigtree]

26. I do think that Sen. Clinton has the advantage of her party affiliation

[AnotherGreenWorld]

24. Agreed.

My sister knows nothing about Sen. Clinton and nevertheless supports anything she does. She even bought, but hasn't read, her "Living History" book.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. She Strikes Me As Incredibly Self Disciplined And Focused...

Whether those are masculine or feminine traits is in the eyes of the viewer...

[bigtree]

29. I think those are attractive traits

which should appeal across the board.

[Ino]

30. I'm happy that a woman is a real contender...

but I'm not happy that the woman is Hillary. You know you're empowered when her gender means less to you than her voting record & her stance on issues. (I'm female.)

[bigtree]

31. I wonder if that sense of empowerment is so universal as to make it dominate

among women voters this time around.

[antigop]

33. These threads have become absolutely hilarious. Thanks for the laughs! n/t

[bigtree]

34. how rude

you're certainly not welcome to a 'laugh' at my expense.

[antigop]

35. I can laugh at whatever I want and I find these threads hilarious. n/t

[bigtree]

37. But, I don't welcome that ridicule in any way

You jumped in on my response to another poster like someone in a junior high school cafeteria trying to impress their peers.

Knock yourself out, Ignored.

[antigop]

40. You mean this thread wasn't meant to be funny???? n/t

[BlooInBloo]

36. Clinton: Nowhere near as bad as DUers think, and nowhere near as good as she says.