Living with schizophrenia

[Madspirit]

(Just fyi, if you go to NPR you can hear her speak about her illness, her journey and her book. ...and guess what. Coming from a loving family actually makes a difference...Lee)

http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun07/living.html

Living with schizophrenia

When Elyn R. Saks was first officially diagnosed with schizophrenia during her first year of law school at Yale University, doctors told her she would not complete her degree. In fact, they added, she would most likely never hold a job, get married or have any semblance of a normal life.

In her memoir, which she will discuss at APA's 2007 Annual Convention, Sunday, Aug. 19, at 4 p.m., readers learn that Saks not only went back to law school, but used her experiences in psychiatric wards to inform her research and writing on mental health law.

Saks is now an associate dean and professor of law, psychology, psychiatry and human behavior at the Gould School of Law at the University of Southern California. Saks battled her increasing delusions-and weathered several hospital stays-to graduate at the top of her undergraduate class at Vanderbilt University, receive a master's in philosophy at Oxford University and get married.

But the stress of starting anew in law school, combined with ongoing bouts of psychosis, landed her in another hospital. She fully intended to return to school, but the hospital staff had other ideas.

"Without my permission or knowledge, they had called the dean of students at the law school to confirm that I couldn't return that year or possibly ever," she says. "In effect, they withdrew me from law school."

But Saks fought to regain her equilibrium and sanity and returned to law school the next year. There she quickly began focusing on the intersection of law and mental illness. She has since published numerous articles and books on legal issues such as informed consent and the use of restraints. And she is now pursuing a degree in psychoanalysis to further inform her research.

She hopes to reach a more general audience, however, with the publication of her memoir "The Center Cannot Hold: A Journey Through Madness" (Hyperion, 2007).

"My main goals are to give hope to people who suffer from schizophrenia, and understanding to those who don't," she says.

In the book, Saks discusses the obstacles she faced as she pursued her career while still in recovery, such as keeping her psychosis at bay, especially around classmates and colleagues. She also recounts her struggle to accept that she needed medication and focuses on how talk therapy has allowed her to make meaning out of her struggles.

"One of the reasons I've done this memoir is to explode the myth that psychoanalysis can't help people like me," Saks says.

-L. Meyers

_________________________________________
"I walk. I talk. I shop. I sneeze.
I'm gonna be a fireman when the
floods roll back.
There's trees in the desert since
you moved out,
And I don't sleep on a bed of bones."
*Buffy*
_________________________________________

[Madspirit]

1. kicking this up...n/t

[winstonrazek]

2. thanks

interesting

[EFerrari]

11. Welcome to DU, winston

:)

[PDJane]

3. A lovng family helps.......

an intelligent family helps. Therapy helps. Medication helps.

Sometimes, plain old determination and orneriness helps.

[robcon]

4. My mother was a paranoid schizophrenic.

But talk therapy did absolutely nothing for her. She heard the voices no matter what was done until some drugs eased her out of that situation.

But until she died she was paranoid... her enemies were her enemies, and the stories she created about my aunt, grandmother (father's side) and her own mother were godawful. She was an extremely unhappy person.

[H2O Man]

5. That is

perhaps the most difficult major mental illness to treat. Medication tends to be more successful than other forms of therapy.

However, many other major mental illnesses, including other types of schizophrenia, can be treated well with a combination of therapy and medication. The insurance and drug companies are gearing treatment towards more medication and less therapy. Often, community-based clinics are doing more medication and "case management," and less individual access to therapists. Also, increasingly large case loads results in more group, rather than individual, therapy.

[EFerrari]

10. It's very hard to keep supporting someone who spreads horrendous

stories about you.

And it must be so very much harder to know to a certainty that the people around you who say they love you mean you harm. :(

:grouphug:

[undergroundpanther]

6. I was misdiagnosed schizoprenic

I really had PSTD.
Amazing what kindness and caring and a community or family that gives a shit about you and does not dominate can do for hurting people.

As in Mad in America, Exhibit A for Mr. Whitaker was a series of World Health Organization (WHO) studies between 1969 and 1992. Even E. Fuller Torrey, in his classic 1987 book Surviving Schizophrenia, confirmed the WHO's findings that patients with a diagnosis of schizophrenia get better quicker and stay well longer in the Third World than in Western countries.
http://www.newyorkcityvoices.org/2002novdec/20021112.html

What do they in the 3rd world have that we don't have?
Close knit supportive communities that respect each other and care about each other,there is a place for the mentally ill there, they are not condemned as sick or hopeless and scapegoated..locked up,drugged up, patronized, medicalized humiliated or dehumanized..like in America, land of eugenics under the rule of normal.

Glad to see you Mad Spirit..(furry purry hug for you)
From a Mad cat,walking in the kind of pride that only touching madness can give a person.

[EFerrari]

15. I wish I could recommend this post.

:toast:

[shance]

65. You are always so positive and supportive Sfexpat.

Love that about you.

:hi:

[shadowknows69]

20. Join the club panther

You're in good company.

[Madspirit]

27. Hi

:hug:

PTSD is hard. :hug: That is part of my diagnosis too.

You need to go google Gheel Belgium. Google something like "Gheel mental health". (It can also be spelled ..Geel.) You are going to want to move there immediately. I know I do. I saw a special about them on tv and then started reading about them. Not only do they have one of the best hospitals in the WORLD, the entire town embraces the mentally ill. It is SO strange and wonderful. The mentally ill go where they want. They might wander into your house at dinner time. Whatever...but the whole town does this and it's an OLD practice. They have done this with US for 100s of years now. The mentally ill are completely loved in this town and well taken care of. You really have to go read about it.

Yeah I was in a state mental hospital in Texas 35 years ago for two years. I could tell you stories that would make your hair stand up. A person has a disease like bipolar, schizophrenia or PTSD, a disease of trauma and then they send you some place HORRID and you get traumatized even more and then they wonder why you only seem to get worse. They wonder why our prognosis often sucks. "Take this crazy person and torture them. Hmmm, why do they just seem to be getting worse..."

Lee

[undergroundpanther]

73. I know about Gheel Belguim

I would love it there. You know the origins of why they are good to mentally ill people?

St Dymphnia.
This is where it gets weird.. Years ago when I was going through bad abuse I used to write and all over my books I drew downward pointing swords. I never knew why I just drew them.And I kept a shamrock I got flattened and dried in every book I just put the same shamrock in the new book I would write never understood why....

Years later my Ex-s mother a catholic, told me about St.Dymphna.She is an Irish saint. I am no catholic but I like dymphna,and I got some irish background.. She helps the mentally ill, she defends incest survivors and child abuse survivors her story is a sad one,where she was murdered a shrine to her was built it is in Gheel..And one of her symbols besides a shamrock was a downward pointing sword,the two things I kept in the books of venting and such..weird huh?The downward pointing sword is her sword poking in evils face, keeping evil away from mentally ill people to spare them torment.Why she came to me I'll never understand.But I am thankful.
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintd01.htm
http://www.natlshrinestdymphna.org/
http://images.google.com/url?q=&usg=AFQjCNHOIvt8RYQLA3rrFXbYxikpwlY2vw

[peacebuzzard]

81. This post is most interesting. thank you.

Every now and then I am so very glad to find information so particular.

I will be searching more information on this saint and on Gheel, Belgium. Your links are great.

I have lived with my sister's mental illness since birth, we are baptized Catholic and attended Catholic schools but St. Dymphnia is a new saint for me. Maybe because we grew up in south america that this Irish saints was not principally discussed. Ha! but this was many, many years ago, I may have forgotten any mention of this blessed saint. Glad I happened upon this post this morning.

[DaveJ]

33. Wow, me too!

They also told me I'd never graduate with my Masters degree, which of course I did later. They did not only misdiagnose but made up things, like that I was hearing voices when I really made no claim of that. People in any professional, including psychiatry, can be corrupt assholes. I really think that these psychiatric professionals were more like a good ol' boy club that refused to give anything deep thought and generally felt obligated to agree with one another to stay on each others' good sides. I think my real problem was that I was young, working on a large and intense research project with no help (of course, when do I get help with anything?), while starting on another technical degree, and living completely alone for years on end. I think that would drive anyone to a state where they might 'appear' unstable. Of course these doctoral professionals were way too smart to see that. Better to be a mindless automaton -- then nobody questions you. :sarcasm:

There probably are analogies to that situation and typical every day life, where people are generally ignored and forgotten about, maybe because they are a little different, then someone in the system comes up to them many years later after they've been pushed out of the society and say "what's that guy's problem?" Since then I've gotten married and as long as I stay around a lot of people all the time I think I'll be fine. I refuse to move to some hick town again and be left alone like that again.

[Sequoia]

53. How did they find out it was that and not the other?

[undergroundpanther]

72. Anti psychotic drugs did not work

did not change my'worldveiw' at all. I still hate this world.I still feel like I don't belong here.

[CountAllVotes]

7. a friend of mine has a son that is 16 years old

and he is in the process of being diagnosed.

If it was me and if it was my kid, I'd be searching for other answers to his behavior other than being that of a schizophrenic.

It is really a very extreme and frightening problem.

Thank you for posting this information.

:kick:

[JuniperLea]

49. FOOD ALLERGIES!

That's the first place I'd look if it were my kid. I've seen kids act pretty strange when eating peanuts or oranges... and now food labeling has changed. You'll notice a lot of mentions like: Product was processed in a facility that also processes products that contain peanuts.

Much like the madness of the Salem Witch Trials that some attribute to a fungus growing in the rye fields, the theory is that the peanuts harbor a like fungus. It's been a while since I've read up on this, so things have more than likely changed/come to the forefront.

[CountAllVotes]

58. frankly, I believe she has a motive

I won't post her situation but I do believe she has a motive behind getting her only kid dx'd with something really serious. It rather sickens me to be honest w/you. I've known the boy since he was a baby and he never seemed particularly odd compared to other kids I've watched grow up.

Frankly, I was shocked when she told me about it. Isn't 16 years old a bit young to be dx'd as schizophrenic?

She said he had a "psychiatric break" whatever that means. If I remember right, I myself was having "psychiatric breaks" about every other day when I was 16 years old, how about you?

Lots of physical changes are going on in the teenage years.

I really hope they do not dx him as a schizophrenic for his sake, not his mother's sake.

From what I know, the kid (and his mother) live on cheap junk food. I wouldn't be the least be surprised to learn that his diet has a lot to do with it.

Right now he's on the "finding the right meds" route. :(

[JuniperLea]

59. Late teens, early 20's...

Certainly before age 30 is the norm.

I hate the whole idea of kids on meds... I know so many extremely brilliant kids who have been put on meds to "settle them down"... when in reality, they were just really brilliant kids who asked a lot of questions and were incredibly curious!

Shoot... at 16, everything was life and death for me! I could be laughing my ass off in the morning, and hating the world while crying my eyes out when I went to bed. I think it's all hormones! And my own kids were the same way. If they had been adults, they would have no doubt been diagnosed as manic depressives... bipolar? Is that what they are calling that now?

I have a girlfriend who is in her mid-30's who was diagnosed as manic depressive in her early teens. Turns out she has an IQ of 180, and once she was weaned from all the drugs, she is living a wonderful, productive, and astonishing life!

My schizophrenic family member has a lot of highs and lows, but she hears voices too... that's the tell tale sign afaic. Still, maybe she is just hearing things we don't? :shrug: I've often wondered that... if perhaps her antenna is tuned to hear another dimension? Wishful thinking? Who knows. We don't know diddly. We don't know one grain of sand compared to all the sand on all the beaches in all the world. See my sig line... yep.

[lvx35]

62. I now work with a schizophrenic daily, and have worked with more.

And I can tell you there is massive connection between food and behavioral issues. The really processed sugars seem to have an intense effect.

[Madspirit]

69. Not nearly as strange as it sounds Juniper

I knew someone once who was diagnosed with severe clinical depression with psychotic features. They started going to a nutritionist and an allergist...all gone now and perfectly functioning.
The mind/body connection is pretty strong and it's not metaphysical; it's chemical; it's real.

Lee

[Madspirit]

8. kicking again...n/t

[EFerrari]

9. For Doug, where ever he is. K&R

[shadowknows69]

12. Thank you for this Lee

because it is my fear that I may actually be afflicted with this but my own personal "medical community" is already giving me contrasting diagnosises. My regular doctor thinks I might be slightly schizo and at least bi-polar I have to assume because those are the meds he has me on. Meanwhile my new therapist I've started seeing weekly thinks that opinion is in error and that I'm just massively depressed at best(? is that something to hope for?) so there you go. The more I read about these mental "disorders" the more it seems that the diagnosis is heavily based on circumstantial opinion. I'm seeing a full blown psychiatrist on the 20th who apparently is going to be able to diagnose my entire life's problems in one slim hour. Aint psychiatric care fun?

[EFerrari]

14. Tear out the label. Make the mattress police come to you.

:)

[shadowknows69]

17. Oh, I expect that will be the least of my offences Beth.

I cut those suckers years ago and they still haven't found me. Rest assured I'll be arrested for something I post here someday though.
S

[EFerrari]

18. My phone was goofy today and when I told my mom, she said sure --

now they have a license. lol

Mom! :toast:

[shadowknows69]

21. I'm getting hang up calls from Ft Lauderdale FLA. lately

Closest we know anyone is Orlando. Mickey, Mickey Mouse.

[Madspirit]

24. It is difficult

I have been diagnosed with bipolar, PTSD and depression since I was young and by many different doctors/shrinks. It's difficult because a lot of symptoms show up in many different illnesses. Both bipolar and schizophrenia are technically psychosis and they have many crossover symptoms. A lot of times, especially in the past, bipolars and schizophrenics have been mistakenly diagnosed with the wrong one of the two. ...and there are so many different "sub" illnesses and variations, such as schizo-affective disorder, etc. It's not easy.

Still, you need to get a definitive diagnosis because it determines the care you get. ...AND one of the most important things this woman stresses is that therapy is important. Not just talking about what your diagnosis might be or what meds you're on but how you FEEL and what you're THINKING. Regular therapy stuff, talking and compassion, it's all important. That has often been totally neglected with schizophrenics and bipolars because ..."well, their brains are totally fucked. Drug them but what's the point of talking to them..." That is garbage. All illnesses, mental and physical, do better with support and caring and nurturing. ALL.

Usually PhD Psychologists do the diagnosing. Even if you see a psychiatrist they will often send you to a psychologist to get the testing done. A full battery of psychologicals takes about three days and consists of MANY different parts, including the famous Rorschach. They really do that. (...and not all Rorschach inkblots are black and white either. Some are color...like pastels.) I don't know if you've done all these diagnostic tests or not. They exhaust a person but they are helpful in getting a diagnosis. Some are a hoot. There is one where they show you pictures and ask you what is missing. ...like a picture of a lady without a nose. I kid you not. That IS one of the pictures and then they ask you what is missing. They have blocks and pegs, all that and in one they just show you black and white pencil-like drawings and you are supposed to tell a story to go with the drawing. It's kind of interesting. Have you had any of these tests or even the MMPI?

Lee

[Maddy McCall]

13. I heard her interviewed a couple of years ago on NPR.

I'm pretty sure it's her.

I'll have to pick up her book soon.

Thanks for posting this.

[Cameron27]

16. K&R

Very interesting, thanks for posting.

[silverlib]

19. I recommend this thread in memory of my friend Chris...

a second year law student also hoping to use law to help the mentally ill. He didn't make it. I wish he had. He would be right up there with Elyn Saks making sure that people with this painful diagnosis were treated properly and without discrimination.

[EFerrari]

22. kick for all our friends and loved ones wrestling with our so called

mental health system.

[FourScore]

23. Excellent article!

What an inspirational story. Those who have suffered from mental illness or have loved ones who have suffered from mental illness know how great Prof. Saks' accomplishments really are. What a story!

K&R and a hug for Elyn R. Saks.

[piedmont]

25. Thank you for posting this, Lee.

This story is very similar in some ways to what happened happened with someone I love very much. I think the message has to be sent loudly, clearly, and repeatedly that even serious mental illness is not necessarily a "social death" sentence. While drugs aren't useful for all cases, an understanding and loving circle of family and friends are critical.

[Hekate]

26. KnR for all those we know and love in their struggle

:grouphug:

Hekate

[Bozita]

28. well-deserved kick

[shireen]

29. Saks is a wonderful and courageous woman.

And so are you, Madspirit. :hug:

[Beerboy]

30. Proud to recommend,

and thanks for the links. I too have an intimate acquaintance with schizophrenia in my personal environment.

[peacebuzzard]

31. I also do maintenance care daily for a schizophrenic sister.

The most important ingredients for the well-being of the mentally challenged are all the above mentioned in this thread. Thanks for the post. It is very insightful for me, the caretaker to see different aspects of this baffling disorder/disease. My life has been disarranged so many times with my sister's "episodes".

I wish everyone well who either deals with the deep-seated disorder of this disease or care-takes a loved one with it.

[EFerrari]

40. Our families can become so isolated. It's a pleasure and

a relief when we get to talk to each other. :hi:

[peacebuzzard]

80. I am a happy single person

with no children; which is good because my sister's care has taken all my time and resources.
Yes, it is good to be able to share and swap perspectives on this issue. I do feel stronger to know others have equal challenges and loads they face daily with this complex family disease.

[EFerrari]

84. I don't construe "family" as a married couple with kids but more

broadly. :)

[Mnemosyne]

87. Friends that are loved as, sometimes much closer than 'family' =

Framily

The family of your heart and soul.

Beth, :hi: always a kind word, you are such a dear!:hug:

[EFerrari]

91. "Family of your heart."

I like that. :toast:

[Mnemosyne]

92. Amazing how the 'heart' works!

:toast:

[peacebuzzard]

89. I consider my houseful of rescued pets my family

since I only have the one sister I do the care-taking for...she lives as a shut-in in the home we grew up in (in Brazil!)

My rescues are my family! (and my consolations for life's stresses!

I have a very broad definition myself!

[EFerrari]

90. LOL!

:)

[Kurovski]

32. K&R

Hi, Madspirit darlin'! :hi:

I still remember that Tipper Gore planned on making mental health her signature cause if she were to have the platform of First Lady.

I hope she will have that chance again.

[hunter]

34. Mental illness is so damned cruel.

And we have a society that makes it worse.

"Be strong." "Hold yourself together."

This selfish society blames the victims.

It took me nine years to graduate from college, but I only accomplished it because people gave a damn. Somehow I maintained a supportive community around myself, but I know it was only because I wasn't too off-putting in my behaviors. For some people, especially people who suffer schizophrenia, that's probably not going to happen. People who suffer schizophrenia can be very difficult to live with.

I've got my meds now, I've got my weekly "talk therapy," and it seems to be a combination that works, more or less...

Everyone should be so fortunate.

[undergroundpanther]

75. hell yeah it's cruel

it sucks. bigtime. especially when it kicks you hard.

[Lilith Velkor]

35. She's lucky she didn't get pushed into a cult

I used to be in an antiwar group that slowly morphed into a pacifist cult.

After I got away, I had Scientologists following me around for a little while, and lost my mind.

So I sought help at a county crisis center, and guess what? I got nothing but 12-step proselytized. They were even sending schizophrenics to an anonymous group where they were told to obey the voice of gawd in their heads.

There's nobody who can help me. But at least now I know there are worse things than being crazy.

[piedmont]

36. "Emotions Anonymous"

Oh, the fucking bullshit that passes for mental health treatment in this country! :mad:

[myrna minx]

37. I miss Paul Wellstone.

:cry:

http://www.wellstone.org/network/issue_page.aspx?catID=2796

For years, Paul Wellstone championed legislation that would end discrimination against people suffering from mental illness. After his death, a bipartisan group of Senators and Representatives named the legislation, which would treat mental illness the same as physical illness, after Wellstone. Since then, despite overwhelming bipartisan support, this common sense bill has languished in Congress.

This year, the bill has been reintroduced in the House by Representatives Jim Ramstad (R-MN) and Patrick Kennedy (D-RI) as the Paul Wellstone Mental Health and Addiction Equity Act. With new leadership in Congress, now is the time to honor Wellstone's legacy and finally pass this bill. We need your help -- keep reading to find out how you can get involved.

Issue Information
What is the Wellstone Bill?
The bill we now refer to as the Wellstone bill is one that Paul Wellstone championed for years in the U.S. Senate.

2007 news coverage of the growing effort to pass the Wellstone bill
After being out of the news for some time, mental health fairness is back on the nation's agenda, with a big push from its sponsors in the House, Congressmen Jim Ramstad and Patrick Kennedy.

Much more at link.

[aikoaiko]

38. Psychoanalysis and schizophrenia is a weird mix.

But to each their own. If she finds comfort in symbols, so be it.

[EFerrari]

39. It can be very powerful if you luck into the right practitioner. n/t

[Madspirit]

41. Bah...from THIS bipolar!

Regular therapy stuff, talking and compassion, it's all important. That has often been totally neglected with schizophrenics and bipolars, both psychosis, because ..."well, their brains are totally fucked. Drug them but what's the point of talking to them..." That is garbage. All illnesses, mental and physical, do better with support and caring and nurturing. ALL.

I actually am bipolar and I actually DO have friends who are schizophrenic. I don't even know what the hell "if she finds comfort in symbols" means..... What is so symbolic about having a supportive person to talk to? We ARE able to carry on conversations, ya know? Having someone to talk to who really cares, is important for any person.

...but thanks for your helpful post.

Lee

[Madspirit]

42. Oh and PS

I would say that it's pretty much worked for her...what with all those PhDs and law degrees and heading up departments at universities, etc. Yeah, it's worked for her.

Lee

[aikoaiko]

44. Ahh, the case study of one.

We really don't know what worked for her.

[Madspirit]

45. Well if you're arrogant and condescending you don't

She actually SAYS what worked for her. I am 53. I have been to more shrinks than Woody Allen. I spent two years in a state nuthouse. I have many many friends with psychosis and my major was psychology. I have written papers you can go look up and read in the stacks at The University of Texas. My shrinks consult me. I have had this illness my entire life. Now what is it YOU know, again?

Lee

[aikoaiko]

48. I know you try to bully people on certain topics.

I'm not going to make any snide remarks to you because I think your overreacting a bit and youre trying to use your disease to stifle commentary.

[Madspirit]

50. It give me insight

Something I have. Something all the mentally ill have. Something this woman has. Something you totally lack. It informs me. You're just making shit up...about something really serious. Maybe you should read the posts in the thread. It is not bullying to KNOW something.
Lee

[Madspirit]

57. Bullying

Easy catch phrase for someone who knows nothing but resents those who do. ...and I do this on certain subjects?! Yeah, mental illness, homophobia, sexism, misogyny, racism. Dang, I am just so strident about these topics. :rofl: Mean-assed bully that I am... :rofl:

Maybe you should read some of the heartrending posts in this thread. Oh wait, you don't care. You don't care at all. You JUST want to spout off. I am so very sorry that I am not more tolerant of you ignorance and intolerance.

Lee

[aikoaiko]

43. Psychoanalysis is not typically noted for its compassion, support, or empathy.

If a psychoanalysis at its heart is supposed to bring insight to the patient by interpreting the symbols of discourse, dreams, etc, manifested by the unconscious. The patient can, according the psychoanalysis, never have access to the unconscious and therefore requires revelations via the psychoanalyst. Having supportive conversations is not a standard psychoanalytic technique. It comes from a more humanist tradition.

Of course, most therapists these days are more eclectic and not faithful to any one school of therapy.

[EFerrari]

46. I beg to differ. D W Winnicott worked with autistic kids

in the UK when no one else would and he got results. I had the privilege of studying Object Relations with someone at Berkeley who had been trained by him. There are plenty of "supportive conversations" in that work, which is Kleinian, not Freudian. And now, no one knows what I'm talking about. lol

[Madspirit]

51. I know what you're talking about.

The person you're responding to simply doesn't give a shit. She just wants to pretend that she does. Therapy is so rarely Freudian these days.

Lee

[EFerrari]

52. Whew!

Freud wasn't Freudian. :shrug:

[aikoaiko]

67. lets put it on the line, sfexpat, do you generally recommend psychoanalysis for schizophrenics?

Generally.

[EFerrari]

68. I'm an English teacher. I generally don't give medical advice.

[aikoaiko]

70. My mistake.

[EFerrari]

76. No problem. I studied object relations in p/a as a grad student

with some heavy hitters at Berkeley and it probably saved my life. When my new husband went into a psychotic episode, I saw it coming, understood what was going on for him, didn't take it personally and was able to move us safely through it. (Caution: do not try this at home.)

So, you bet that I know in a very profound way that psychoanalysis has something to offer schizophrenia. My best case is, I'm still here.

[aikoaiko]

77. I won't argue with your personal experience.

All I'll say is that I'm surprised that psychoanalysis is an effective treatment for the specific symptoms of schizophrenia such as delusions and cognitive disorganization (as opposed to the peripheral issues).

[EFerrari]

83. My ex wasn't really available for any form of therapy before

we managed to get him stable on medication. And that took eight years.

[Madspirit]

71. Are you a shrink OR a schizophrenic?

Didn't think so.
Lee

[aikoaiko]

78. self-delete

I'm not going to argue with you.

[JuniperLea]

47. I've been caring for a schizophrenic family member...

... for over 30 years now. I've met more mentally ill people than you can shake a stick at due to the numerous hospitalizations and the hours I've spent visiting.

It's been my experience that when some lazy psychiatrists can't deal, they label the person schizophrenic, medicate them, and discard them.

I've seen so much genius go to waste. I swear, the majority of the people I've met who suffer this and similar mental illness are freaking geniuses.

I'll stop now, or end up writing my own book!

It's so good to see a book like this.

[EFerrari]

54. Juniperx, I wish I could give you something in honor of your

commitment and your stamina. I did that for 12 years IN THIS CULTURE and the culture was harder to deal with than my beloved family member.

Why not write your own book? We need to hear what you have to say.

:toast:

[JuniperLea]

55. Thanks for your kind words...

Yes, writing it all down would be cathartic and theraputic for me, and if it could offer support to anyone else, wouldn't that be a blessing to us all! It would be interesting to see my account from my perspective, held up to the account of someone who actually suffers the illness.

I'm going to seriously think about this. Thank you so much.

:toast:


Aw hell... have a full pint!

[EFerrari]

56. Btw, I wrote a book that was an introductory essay on how

our families manage and then, selections from my email over the course of one year that illustrated our challenges, some tools and resources.

It did me a world of good to write it out and it went all over the world. I couldn't put it at Amazon because the printer messed up but I got hundreds of requests for copies and I didn't have any ads anywhere. Our families are hungry for community.

Because of the challenges we take on with so little social support, reports from the "front line" are much appreciated.

my best to you and yours,
Beth

[mdmc]

60. bookmarked

:kick:

[Sequoia]

61. Thanks for this post.

It's heartbreaking to read all these things because my mom was there. She spent very many years in a state hospital in the south where the patients were used to test out the drugs (my opinion) and given shock treatment (found this out in high school). She would leave so many times when we were children and finally we older kids were put in a boarding type school and the babies went to realitives and never really got to know her which was heartbreaking for her. She'd cry over the stupid pills she had to take because they made other things worse. Somedays were bad when we would be home with her but things seemed to improve when she got older in some ways anyway. I don't even like to write about it as it is still painful. I tried to read "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest" recently and I just couldn't go on. However, the movie doesn't seem to bother me that way. Most times the people in those places were dumped there because that's what you did back then and no one talked about it. Silence.

[KittyWampus]

63. both my brothers are paranoid schizophrenic. One still won't accept he needs drugs

and it's a crying god-damned shame that modern psychiatry relies so heavily on the use of drugs to suppress and sedate and uses little (or no) behavioral modification.

Someday people will look back at this time and how mental health issues were dealt with and think "how barbaric".

Much as we look at the dark ages and their madhouses now.

[DutchLiberal]

64. I'm friends with a guy who's schizophrenic. He's the most intelligent & philosophical person I know.

Unfortunately, a lot of people have wrong ideas about schizophrenia they get from the media and the movies, and think these people are dangerous. He's been very unhappy because of these prejudices.

[ismnotwasm]

66. Cool story

We have no place in our society for our mentally ill. I personally believe many of them could succeed if more support was available, and for the ones who will always live in their "own" world, more acceptance and more resources for them as well as family and friends. Reminds me of that book "An Unquiet Mind" about bipolar disease. I'll look for the author

Here it is on Amazon; It's by Kay Redfield-Jamison
http://www.amazon.com/Unquiet-Mind-Kay-Redfield-Jamison/dp/0330346512

[undergroundpanther]

74. some of the coolest people I ever known

Most free thinking,creative genuine kind caring and insightful people I met in my life were from the mental hospitals,psych survivors & day programs and such.
Some were manic depressive others schizophrenic others ocd others pstd or messed up one way or another,and they are the best people.

Martin Luther king has this to say about us maladjusted people..

"Psychologists have a word which is probably used
more frequently than any other word in modern psychology.
It is the word maladjusted.
Well, there are some things in our social system to which I am proud to be maladjusted
and to which I suggest that we ought to be maladjusted.
I never intend to become adjusted to the evils of segregation and discrimination.
I never intend to adjust myself to the tragic inequalities of an economic system
which takes necessities from the masses to give luxuries to the classes.
The salvation of the world lies in the hands of the maladjusted. "
Martin Luther King.

Be mad,be proud than get MAD!!
I so respect you all here..struggles 'n all.
:grouphug:

[Raksha]

79. Abraham Maslow (at least I think it was Maslow) put it another way:

"There is no such thing as a well-adjusted slave."

Re "Psychologists have a word which is probably used
more frequently than any other word in modern psychology.
It is the word maladjusted.
Well, there are some things in our social system to which I am proud to be maladjusted
and to which I suggest that we ought to be maladjusted.
I never intend to become adjusted to the evils of segregation and discrimination.
I never intend to adjust myself to the tragic inequalities of an economic system
which takes necessities from the masses to give luxuries to the classes.
The salvation of the world lies in the hands of the maladjusted. "
Martin Luther King.

The more I think about it, though, the more I wonder if they are saying the same thing or the opposite? I guess there COULD be such a thing as a "well-adjusted slave," but that would be the ultimate in learned helplessness...nothing anyone with the slightest shred of human dignity would ever want to be.

[EFerrari]

82. That's right and we call those people Republicans.

It seems to me, anyway, that they're saying the same or similar things.

[undergroundpanther]

85. I call them psychopaths

They are such slaves they do bad shit when they are free,because they cannot be trusted with freedom or power,. and they spend their lives in jail or playing stupid cruel games until they get in jail, and keep going back to jail.
The socialized psychopaths, well they crave power because power makes them less responsible, the common factor is they need other people to limit what they can do or not do.They lack the internal restraint mechanism of shame and empathy.The thing I call a conscience.They run over boundaries because they are asking to be dominated.And they will keep doing wrongs,and getting worse every time until someone else stops them by force if nessesary by jail or death penalty.They are in effect the most slavish of all people especially the 'elites and super wealthy what do they do with all that money and freedom? They do small things like hoard it,spend it on decadent shit, or spend it all for nose candy...And nothing is worse than a slave who fancies himself king,case in point, Bush.

[Raksha]

86. "Well-adjusted slave" = socialized psychopath...

that's as good a working definition as anything I've ever seen.

The socialized psychopaths, well they crave power because power makes them less responsible, the common factor is they need other people to limit what they can do or not do.They lack the internal restraint mechanism of shame and empathy.The thing I call a conscience.

If there is no external authority capable of controlling them, because they have simply outgrown it (i.e., their parents) or because they are good at evading the criminal justice system (a skill that comes naturally to socialized psychopaths), then they will simply invent or adopt one, namely the punitive "God" of the fundamentalist religions, who is essentially a kind of super-cop, or more like judge, jury and executioner.

It got to be so easy to spot these people on the various interfaith forums I frequented over the years. Whenever we started talking about atheists or anyone who doesn't believe in an eternal hell, their objection would always be the same: "In other words, you can do whatever you want. There's nothing to stop you from raping/killing someone."

That's the "signature" argument and you hear it over and over again. It doesn't take long to figure out that these people aren't actually talking about gangbangers and so on...they are talking about themselves! They are afraid of what THEY would do if they didn't have Big Brother restraining them. And yet no matter how terrifying they make their so-called "God of Justice," as often as not even he can't restrain them! I've met a disproportionate number of crackheads and criminal types who claim to be "born-again Christians," enough that I don't even suspect there's a correlation. I KNOW there is!

The thing is, even when these people use the word "conscience" they don't mean the same thing you or I mean by it, namely an inner sense of right and wrong based upon empathy, i.e. "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you," etc. What they mean is that they have memorized a long laundry list of "sins" originally invented by some OTHER authoritarian type in the past, and have internalized them to the point where they either refrain from committing them or (more likely) suffer intense pangs of fear and guilt if they do.

[Mnemosyne]

88. The best explanation for the fear of gay narriage by

the repubes, if I ever heard one!

"They are afraid of what THEY would do if they didn't have Big Brother restraining them."

Amen!