This is so pissing me off -

[Joe for Clark]

This happened - there are some "pioneer" sp ops in Kurdistand - from Turkey - and they ain't there to light birthday candles.

What the fuck is wrong with CNN - don't they learn from their previous screw-ups??

There is a time coming - and it is coming fast - where that last bullet too many gets fired - and there is no going back.

Tell the american people what is really going on - it is your job.

Cause if you don't and we go over the edge of this cliff - blame is on your shoulders.

You chicken shit bastards.

Joe

[Purveyor]

1. If it wasn't for the foreign media covering these events, the US lickspittle media

wouldn't cover these stories at all.

Thank whom ever you worship for the internet.

Imagination only knows what "those people in DC" would be getting away with if it weren't for it...

[in_cog_ni_to]

2. The CORPORATE owned CNN will never tell the American people what's really going on. It's called

Propaganda.

Stalin had Pravda, Bush has FAUX NEWS, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC, and ABC.

[Joe for Clark]

3. GET THOSE KIDS PULLED BACK NOW!

Now - now - now. Time is up.

Just pull them back to the major bases - you can do that. We can extract over time.

Stop the FOB deployments - .

You are sticking those kids into the middle of hell right now.

And it ain't our hell.

And those are our kids - apparently you don't give a shit about them.

Arrogant bastards.

Who in the hell promoted these people?

Joe

[Olney Blue]

4. Why would even one vote be cast for the war chimp in 2004?

[Snarkoleptic]

5. Joe Lieberman should spend a week living among the troops and ponder his karma&political relevance.

[orleans]

11. lieberman should know what it feels like to have his own children

stuck there.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. No one promoted them, Joe

They stole it.

[AuntPatsy]

7. Where are they sending them Joe? And why and when?

[JanusAscending]

10. Do you really think he can answer that????

Joe sounds like a TERRIFIED father, who's son has told him more than he should. I just trust that he either knows what he is talking about, or is totally distraught because his son is right in the midst of it!! I can empathize because my granddaughter is two weeks away from coming home, and she's only a Naval corpsman in Kuwait!!:scared:

[AuntPatsy]

12. No, I have been reading Joe's posts for quite some time now, I know he is scared and why,

But I was hoping he would. I'm sorry about your granddaughter, I honestly hope she comes home safe and sound, I couldn't imagine what you must be feeling and I am so sorry you are living with that fear.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

8. Big money promoted these people. We didn't.

We can't stop fighting this. I'm very worried about the end of this occupation.

[Help me help Earth]

9. Sticking to major bases helped the violence spiral out of control.

We really only have two options. If we stay in Iraq, the military has to do what it's doing now. The upside is it's more effective at mitigating the violence, the downside is it gets more US service members killed. If we leave, then the military can start a pull back. The problem is that despite what everyone wants it doesn't look like we are leaving any time soon.

[Joe for Clark]

13. Am I really locked?

[Joe for Clark]

14. The "surge strategy" it meant taking the kids

out of the bases and shooting them forward -into the cities - little posts - to work with the "Iraqi's"

FOBs - forward operating bases. There are a lot of them.

They are totally exposed right now.

They are so on there own if this one blows.

That problem up north- that is why american units were being pulled and shipped north - didn't really make sense til now. Like I said -I am getting old and slow.

They weren't there to appease Turkey - not at all. It was already going down.

Kind of makes sense - since we never managed to move proactively yet.

And so you guys understand -there is a caste system for promoting officers in the United States - and we, as a people (theoretically) promote them. And not for ability - it is mostly for length of service.

Joe

[Help me help Earth]

15. The military has built some pretty huge foward operating bases.

That was what I was referring to in my last post. They were built to covey the message that we were there for the long haul, but arguably furthered unrest by keeping too many troops in the same place, and hence away from more troubled areas.

As for the Turkey invading Iraq thing, wasn't that supposed to happen last Monday?

[shadowknows69]

16. I can confirm that

from many conversations with soldiers. There are no illusions in our army about what the eventual goals are.

[Joe for Clark]

18. If you take 30,000 kids and spread them to 30 FOBs - how big

you think those fobs are?? And it is alot more than 30 -

That Turkey stepped it- it wasn't Monday - it was Sunday.

And that is a fact.

Joe

[sanskritwarrior]

23. LOL

exactly how many FOB's are still active Joe? I'm curious........

Here's a hint: It's ain't 30

[Joe for Clark]

24. 77 my last count

[sanskritwarrior]

29. LOL

that's pretty funny as the number I see in the briefinf slides is 10 Major FOB's i.e. 10,000 or more troops and 19 smaller FOB's....

Granted this year 30 FOB's have been closed or turned over to the Iraqis, so I can see where your numbers may have come from......

[Joe for Clark]

33. Briefing slide - you shitting me?

My kid - he is forward and they don't have 300 supporting the entire deal.

We can all do the math here.

Like I said - I count 77. Plus or minus.

Friend - I used to totally trust the army - I really did.

I have some very good reasons to not trust them anymore - and that cuts deep for me to say that.

Joe

[sanskritwarrior]

35. Yeah briefing slide

as in here are all the bases in country, then we got to where my brigade is headed........then we go to current enemy sittemp...

I've been forward too joe, twice........and I trust the Army a whole lot.......

[Joe for Clark]

39. Yeah - right.

I'll say this- and maybe it will help you.

My dad he said - you ever trust the army too much - it will get you killed.

And he did a lot of things and he was a major in the army and the air corps. And he sure wasn't the highest rank in the family - just the man I trusted the most - but they all said the same kind of thing and that was at a time you really trusted those guys. I did.

They can tell me its daylight now - and I will go to the window to verify - it is that bad now.

To me.

For me it wasn't really what Troy said -not really - it was when John came home and he said what he did about what was going on. This is his third war now - he knows war - when I listened to him -when he was done talking - I turned white.

I hope you come out ok - I truly do.

Joe

[seemslikeadream]

34. See I told you

but you wouldn't listen

[sanskritwarrior]

36. Told me what

I know about his son........

He reminds us every chance he gets........

He didn't tell me anything I didn't already know except for his assumed number of FOB's.......

Notice he said FOB's not Combat outposts or patrol stations.......

As for Mosul we "hopefully turning the province over to the Iraqis next month........If Joe's son is still in Mosul, he should count his lucky stars, that is one of the best assignments in country........I wish we were going to Mosul, but like the previous two tours, I have drawn the worst place you can go........

[seemslikeadream]

26. You don't know who you're talking to

Turkish invasion delayed by Maliki visit

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/yazarDetay.do?haberno=118959

There are now three things that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan does not want any tension over as he makes a start to his second term as prime minister.
One is the smooth election of a president other than the Foreign Minister Abdullah Gül (who has hinted his candidacy), something to which the military has renewed its objection. The second area that Erdoğan wants to conclude, without trouble, is the election of a parliament speaker, and the third and equally important issue is the prevention of a military invasion of northern Iraq by a military that says it wants to crush the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) and eradicate its hideouts. Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's visit to Ankara on Aug, 7 is part of this exercise and reflects Erdoğan's determination to chance a diplomatic solution to the PKK infiltrations from Iraq rather than allowing the enthusiastic military to invade a neighboring country

[sanskritwarrior]

27. Yeah actually I do

I'm talking to a guy that proposes wild eyed theories about Iraq that never come true and when asked about he ignores the response......

I am fully aware what kind of person I am talking to......

[seemslikeadream]

28. actually you do not

you think you know everything but you do not and you are very wrong about Joe

[sanskritwarrior]

30. So he doesn't post

rants that don't come true.........???

He doesn't have his threads locked and deleted for challenging the mods?

He doesn't come in here every few days and say "OMFG IT'S GOING DOWN IN IRAQ THIS WEEK"!!!!!1!!!111!!!!!!

I must be at the wrong site then......

[seemslikeadream]

32. I didn't say what he posts I said WHO he is

[sanskritwarrior]

37. I know who he is

His son is in Iraq and for that I respect his son's service........I hope his son can be proud of the work he has done for this country while in the uniform of the Army........I know my fondest memories later in my life will be the years I spent serving this country......

[sanskritwarrior]

22. Actually Joe, no

there are not a lot of FOB's........There were but we have been closing them down steadily the last 2 years......

Diyala the worst province in Iraq after Baghdad has 4 FOB's in it and two of those are due to be shut down this year.......

At Tamim province with Kirkuk in it, the 4th largest city in the 5th most populated province has 3 FOB's in it.......

What Iraq has a lot of now is CO's and PS's........Combat Outposts and Patrol Stations......

Moving us of the FOB's was the best idea we have ever had in Iraq, it means we actually have to patrol and and get out there among the Iraqis instead of huddling on the Giant FOB's........

And people are promoted for ability.......I have 14 years in and am looking at my E-8 hopefully this year.......That is not the qucikest but by far faster than most.......People in the military NCO's and Officers are promoted by virtue of talent......Sorry but I'm living it bro, I see it everyday.......

[sanskritwarrior]

31. Agreed........

the big bases limited our ability to conduct offensive operations without alerting the bad guys we were headed their way........

[Name removed]

19. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seemslikeadream]

20. Turkish Commandos Inside Iraq?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1529843

[seemslikeadream]

21. Turkey, Iraq to end PKK in Iraq

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-08/08/content_6493695.htm

[seemslikeadream]

25. Turkish invasion delayed by Maliki visit

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/yazarDetay.do?haberno=118959

There are now three things that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan does not want any tension over as he makes a start to his second term as prime minister.
One is the smooth election of a president other than the Foreign Minister Abdullah Gül (who has hinted his candidacy), something to which the military has renewed its objection. The second area that Erdoğan wants to conclude, without trouble, is the election of a parliament speaker, and the third and equally important issue is the prevention of a military invasion of northern Iraq by a military that says it wants to crush the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) and eradicate its hideouts. Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's visit to Ankara on Aug, 7 is part of this exercise and reflects Erdoğan's determination to chance a diplomatic solution to the PKK infiltrations from Iraq rather than allowing the enthusiastic military to invade a neighboring country

[Nutmegger]

38. Hello Joe for Clark.

It's good to see you.

A :thumbsup: and :kick: for you!

[sanskritwarrior]

40. Here ya go

http://kurdistanobserver.servehttp.com/Aug-2007/7-8-07-tky-forces-enter-kurdistan.html

Is this what is getting your panties in a twist?

Good grief Joe, the turks did this in 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006........

this is part of their summer training cycle to send these guys across the border.....I need to dig through my pics from Iraq I think I have one or two with me and Turkish troops in a picture together in Iraq just north of Dohuk in Kurdistan where we went for In-country R&R........

[Joe for Clark]

41. I would like to see that -

Don't say panties in a twist. That is not nice.
Joe