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Fisa Bill is "Unwarranted Betrayal" ....Albany Times

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 10:40 PM
Original message
Fisa Bill is "Unwarranted Betrayal" ....Albany Times
Edited on Wed Aug-08-07 11:24 PM by madfloridian
After my calls today in which I still got no real answers from any of the Blue Dogs, I was still angry. Well, I did get one office saying it took courage to vote against your own party..as if they were proud of it.

This editorial makes it clear that the possible dangers this poses are not my imagination.

Unwarranted Betrayal

If the leaders of the Democrat-controlled Congress want to know why their approval ratings are lower than President Bush's low ratings, they need only look at how they caved in to White House demands for broader domestic surveillance powers. Sixteen Democrats in the Senate, and 41 in the House, voted with Republicans to give the administration broader powers to wiretap telephone messages and spy on e-mail correspondence of Americans without first obtaining court warrants as previously required under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

...."Think of it. Here was a Democrat-controlled Congress that vowed to hold the White House accountable for its attempts to trample on the Fourth Amendment. And now it has done just the opposite. The danger can't be overstated. President Bush, Vice President Cheney and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales have never hidden their disdain for the niceties of the law, nor have they ever shown any compunction about using the powers of their office to go after political opponents. And now they have the power to invade Americans' privacy with impunity. There will be no checks and balances, no reports to Congress, no accountability. The potential for abuse is frightening.

As expected, the Bush administration put pressure on Congress in two ways: First, by warning that U.S. intelligence agencies were monitoring increased chatter among terrorist suspects, and second by invoking the old, and discredited, argument that changing technologies had made it impossible for government agents to obtain an individual warrant from the secret FISA court every time they wanted to track a terror suspect. But FISA guidelines allow the government to proceed with spying when time is of the essence, provided agents obtain a warrant retroactively. Expanding the time frame for such retroactive warrants would have addressed the administration's concerns about timeliness.

Regrettably, the Democrats abandoned their own alternative plan that would have made surveillance decisions subject to later court review, while requiring public audits by the Justice Department's inspector general on the number of Americans who were monitored by the government. That would have provided an essential layer of accountability.


Hubby and I donated quite a bit more to the ACLU today when we got their email. I will say this truly scares me more than the threat of terrorism....that our own party gave in to the bullying. From the ACLU email today:


http://www.aclu.org/safefree/spying /

From the email:

"Democratic “leaders” have crossed the line and betrayed the will of the majority who put them in power in 2006. This week, a timid Congress caved in to President Bush and his demand for more out-of-control authority to spy on Americans.

The FISA gutting legislation voted on last weekend allows for massive, untargeted collection of Americans’ international communications without court order. The law allows for no meaningful oversight by either Congress or the courts and leaves decisions about the collection, mining and use of American information up to the Bush Administration’s Attorney General, Alberto Gonzales. Tell Congress you believe in the Constitution and demand that it fix this legislation.

In short, instead of putting the brakes on the Bush Administration’s continued and reckless abuse of power, Congress handed them more power to invade our privacy and ignore our Constitutional rights.

And it never had to happen if leaders in the House and Senate had had the courage to take a stand and say “no more” to the Bush administration."

The petition to Reid and Pelosi:
https://secure.aclu.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=Dont_Fail_Freedom_petition


To Allen Boyd's office in Florida, I say to you: the cowardly way out was to give Bush and Gonzales this power. Talk to your staff, sir. Tell them in this case voting against your party was not the right thing to do.
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. k + r
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. I want to know what it is they fear and I dont' believe it is bush himself.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I agree, there is something.
Ok, I will say it .... some form of blackmail, perhaps?
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I don't understand why that very word is so hard for some to believe? Knowing what we know
already as fact it is not so far fetched to believe blackmailing to be the cause of the dems not doing more, we have to understand there are many ways to blackmail even the most honest of the lot, what would you do if your child or parents or someone very close to you was being threatened and though you didn't worry about yourself being hurt in some way you are sure to worry more about a loved one innocent of having to face something like that..

I'm sorry but that to me is the only reason I can see for all this backtracking even amongst those I never thought would dare to.


If such is going on it can be exposed but such takes time, proof is so hard to bring foward especially considering the wiretapping on our own citizens, how easy it is to do with the right euqipment and there is no doubt in my mind that this administration would use such against it's own in order to remain in power...

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. Blog Talk: Debating the FISA bill. ...not getting good reviews on the blogs.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/06/blogtalk-debating-the-fisa-bill/

"As Kevin Drum, who writes the Political Animal blog for the Washington Monthly, put it: “Democrats pretty clearly got steamrolled on this.”
Until Thursday they were negotiating productively with Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell and had reached agreement on the bill’s language. Nobody was making a big deal out of it because things seemed to be going smoothly. Then, at the last second, the White House rejected the language its own D.N.I. had accepted and suddenly all hell broke loose. Democrats weren’t ready for it, and with Congress about to adjourn and no backup strategy in place, they broke ranks and caved in. The only concession they got was a six-month sunset in the bill."

I feel sorry for our Democrats who were honestly trying to do the right thing....but they got steamrolled. This administration has been steamrolling us since 2001. It will take great courage to stand up and take a chance on being blamed.

The scary part is that this bunch is one that I put nothing past.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. First of all, left winged bloggers would aid in not using the words such as
weak and steamrolled and ineffective when talking about the dems, there are ways to voice one's anger and displeasure with the actions of the dems of late without resorting to belittleing them which only eggs the right winged attack machine on and gets more citizens on thier side whether those citizens realize this or not...

We have to come together, we have to show them they have our support and they have to know they can find a safe haven so to speak with thier supporters, I am not sure I am getting across what I am saying , its late but I hope I am, I know how much work you do and how much time you have given of your own and the distress you must feel must be overwhelming...

But there are many ways to skin a cat, but one needs to get their footing first and form a plan so to speak.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Wow.
That surprises me.

I have never been one to "belittle" anyone. My post stands. I have been on the phone, trying to get them to respond. Nothing.

I have quit writing a friend overseas because he says stuff I don't want to be picked up on monitoring. I told him later we would write. He is very angry at our country.

I don't think we can sit back and be nice about this.

I am so sorry you think I am demeaning them. But my post stands as is.

I think they trusted McConnell, I know Bill Nelson finally said that was why he voted. But it is time for them to speak up and stop Bush from taking away all our liberties. If they don't do it no one will.

I guess it is ok for others to belittle them about getting out of Iraq and about impeachment..massive groups here do it daily....but not ok for me to speak out because they gave the power to Gonzales who has sat before them and lied.

Peace.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. OMG I didn't mean you, I admire you u know, I meant alot of the blogs that
are out there and that people post here, they use words that I just feel lessen the dems in a way they can ill afford at the moment, you get enough garbage from people here, If I offended you I swear I am sorry.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Maybe you missed the words of the ACLU . In fact here they are.
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 12:35 AM by madfloridian
I was gentle in comparison. I was tame.

No, really, hubby and I don't work that hard for the party on the ground anymore, not like we used to do. Not locally. Too painful and unproductive for now.

Here is the letter Caroline Frederickson from ACLU sent Matt Stoller after he tried to blame them for not being on top of it.

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=611

"Much of your criticism is unwarranted: we worked FISA and hard (and have been since December 2005). We reached out to Democratic leaders -- we met with Pelosi and with Reid -- we spoke with the staff from every leadership office. They did not listen to us. It was dem leadership who scheduled the vote on these particular bills. Why be mad at us and not at them? We met with them. They rebuffed our arguments.

We weren't notified that the bill was moving until 6 days before when Rep. Harman let it slip on Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer. We gave it the full court press: with action alerts, meetings with Members of Congress and Senators and their staff.

Pelosi and friends spent the entire week negotiating with the DNI and cut out ALL the civil liberties groups - not just the ACLU. Senator Rockefeller led the effort on the Senate side (with McConnell). The bill only passed because a) 41 dems crossed the line in the house, after the "liberal leadership" could NOT muster up its own party to assert its 30 seat majority, and b) most importantly, Pelosi, our "liberal leader" scheduled the bill in the first place. She could have put any bill on the schedule and she chose the Administration's. We worked this hard, and somehow you blame the ACLU?"




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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. I do think some dems deserve the wordings used but the problem is
not all of them do, Now I feel horrible because you took my post to heart and personal, what I was trying to say is that I see these posts when using such words against all the dems and in doing so it puts them all on the same page so to speak of actually being weak and I just don't believe all of them to be, I just think some cannot help what is going on behdind closed doors, things that we the public are not privy to and they are too scared to come out and explain their actions without having positive proof.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Did you read my posts about the Blue Dogs and their votes?
I have not attacked them all, I have decided to try and call all 30 of them who voted for it.

I go after the ones who deserve it. It was the ACLU who worked with them who said Pelosi and Reid cut out the activists groups and brought the wrong bill up for vote.

No one stands between us and a dictatorship except our congress. If they are afraid, then we are doomed.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I cannot argue with that and have to agree, do you believe Peloski to be crooked?
Like I said, I have no doubt there are bad dems, I am not blind by any means and I agree they should be made to answer for their actions, after all they work for us but I just hesitant to openly bash all dems as I have seen so many do.


I think its great that you and I am sure many like you contact them in order to question their actions, and yet I still wonder, are you getting the answer you need or are they still hiding the smoking gun so to speak and if so, how can we get them to give it up.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I don't know what I think, but I know they are not being open and honest.
Something weird if going on, and giving in to the fear is going to destroy our country.

I don't know what to think.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Not a good way to call it a night, but I have to, if you scared of
out country being destroyed with as much as you are involved, than I too don't know what to think, I tried to be hopeful tonight, Im settling in for the night, that hope lost, if they don't give it up the truth, your right, all is lost and right or wrong regardless of the inner dealings if they don't work against this cabal, I fear the people will never organize enough to take over the reigns in order to accomplish what they could not.

Good night, don't know when I wlll get another chance to be this long on Du, but I will try.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Show them they have our support? In what way?..
Hey, guys, sorry you betrayed your country, the constitution and fellow Dems. Sorry you gave carte blanche to a criminal (Gonzo). But, not to worry. We support'cha. Yep! :rofl: :rofl:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
9. I have checked websites for statements.
Here is one from Bob Casey. Nothing from Bill Nelson yet, though he has been confronted in town hall meetings several times.

Casey:

http://casey.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=280578
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
17. Wow -- I am Shocked
Normally esoteric laws like this go under the radar for editorial pages. But not this one. Some very, very strong editorials coming out.
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