What does it mean to be poor in America?

[Sapphire Blue]

What does it mean to be poor in America?




"It means having to do without basic needs. It means being last, forgotten, judged wrongly by others."
Male, 44, Delaware, household of three, income less than $8,860

"To me, it is not being poor in itself that holds any meaning; it is seeing all the wealth in others, and of our nation, that makes your feel poor -- like living within many states of hopelessness."
Male, 40, California, household of nine, income less than $8,860.

"Hopeless."
Male, 58, Delaware, household of one, income less than $8,860

"Being unseen and unheard."
Female, 70, Washington, household of one, income of $8,860 to $11,939

"You are voiceless and somewhat powerless to change your situation, because you are too busy trying to survive to make the changes you need to improve your situation."
Female, 40, Washington, household of one, income less than $8,860

"I'm a senior, disabled, all alone, no money, sit in front of T.V. all day - why? Too poor to socialize. Poverty is like being in prison. Why even try to stay alive? For what?
Female, 62, Oregon, household of one, income less than $8,860

"You are treated as a second class citizen."
Male, 47, Oregon, household of one, income less than $8,860

"Heartbreaking. I worry about when I become elderly, sometimes I feel that my concerns, my voice isn't heard."
Female, 44, no state, household of two, income less than $8,860

"It's unbearable. It's like you have no reason to exist. Everywhere you go you get turned away."
Male, 45, Illinois, household of five, income of $11,940 to $15,019

"It feels as if you are the lowest creature on earth and rich people look down at you over their noses."
Male, 66, Pennsylvania, household of three, income of $15,020 to $18,099

"Struggling to pay bills, constant disconnection notices, not having money to wash and purchase clothing to work in because bills and household needs have to come first. Listening to your children say they are hungry, but not knowing what you are going to be able to give them before your foodstamps come."
Female, 32, Missouri, household of five, income of less than $8,860

"I am poor so I know poverty. It's wearing tattered clothes and shoes and having to bow my head in the face of injustice and oppression."
Male, 55, Florida, household of two, income of less than $8,860

"Poor = helpless. Poor + Black = helpless, hopeless. Poor + Black + female + Catholic = encouraged fighter."
Female, 62, Ohio, household of two, income of $11,940 to $15,019

"People look down on you, thinking that you're nothing, like not one poor person tried in their life."
Female, Kansas, 16, household of three, income of less than $8,860

"Not having the American Dream."
Female, 49, New York, household of three, income of less than $8,860

"Not having enough money to have a nice Christmas. Not being able to have nice things for birthdays."
Female, 23, Michigan, household of one, income of less than $8,860

"Feeling like you always owe everyone either an apology or an explanation or both."
Female, 52, Kansas, household of four, income of less than $8,860

"Being poor in the U.S. today is very rough and scary."
Female, 36, Kansas, household of two, income of less than $8,860

"Looked over by most (due to fear), forgotten, seeing the richest people in the world while hungry and cold, feels alone and invalid."
Male, 31, California, household of six, income of $8,860 to $11,939

"It means I lost life as I knew it."
Male, 36, California, household of one, income of less than $8,860


• Learn more about the Catholic Campaign for Human Development
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http://www.usccb.org/cchd/povertyusa/realwords.shtml

Being Poor
John Scalzi

Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs.

Being poor is getting angry at your kids for asking for all the crap they see on TV.

Being poor is having to keep buying $800 cars because they're what you can afford, and then having the cars break down on you, because there's not an $800 car in America that's worth a damn.

Being poor is hoping the toothache goes away.

Being poor is knowing your kid goes to friends' houses but never has friends over to yours.

Being poor is going to the restroom before you get in the school lunch line so your friends will be ahead of you and won't hear you say "I get free lunch" when you get to the cashier.

Being poor is living next to the freeway.

Being poor is coming back to the car with your children in the back seat, clutching that box of Raisin Bran you just bought and trying to think of a way to make the kids understand that the box has to last.

Being poor is wondering if your well-off sibling is lying when he says he doesn't mind when you ask for help.

Being poor is off-brand toys.

Being poor is a heater in only one room of the house.

Being poor is knowing you can't leave $5 on the coffee table when your friends are around.

Being poor is hoping your kids don't have a growth spurt.

Being poor is stealing meat from the store, frying it up before your mom gets home and then telling her she doesn't have make dinner tonight because you're not hungry anyway.

Being poor is Goodwill underwear.

Being poor is not enough space for everyone who lives with you.

Being poor is feeling the glued soles tear off your supermarket shoes when you run around the playground.

Being poor is your kid's school being the one with the 15-year-old textbooks and no air conditioning.

Being poor is thinking $8 an hour is a really good deal.

Being poor is relying on people who don't give a damn about you.

Being poor is an overnight shift under florescent lights.

Being poor is finding the letter your mom wrote to your dad, begging him for the child support.

Being poor is a bathtub you have to empty into the toilet.

Being poor is stopping the car to take a lamp from a stranger's trash.

Being poor is making lunch for your kid when a cockroach skitters over the bread, and you looking over to see if your kid saw.

Being poor is believing a GED actually makes a goddamned difference.

Being poor is people angry at you just for walking around in the mall.

Being poor is not taking the job because you can't find someone you trust to watch your kids.

Being poor is the police busting into the apartment right next to yours.

Being poor is not talking to that girl because she'll probably just laugh at your clothes.

Being poor is hoping you'll be invited for dinner.

Being poor is a sidewalk with lots of brown glass on it.

Being poor is people thinking they know something about you by the way you talk.

Being poor is needing that 35-cent raise.

Being poor is your kid's teacher assuming you don't have any books in your home.

Being poor is six dollars short on the utility bill and no way to close the gap.

Being poor is crying when you drop the mac and cheese on the floor.

Being poor is knowing you work as hard as anyone, anywhere.

Being poor is people surprised to discover you're not actually stupid.

Being poor is people surprised to discover you're not actually lazy.

Being poor is a six-hour wait in an emergency room with a sick child asleep on your lap.

Being poor is never buying anything someone else hasn't bought first.

Being poor is picking the 10 cent ramen instead of the 12 cent ramen because that's two extra packages for every dollar.

Being poor is having to live with choices you didn't know you made when you were 14 years old.

Being poor is getting tired of people wanting you to be grateful.

Being poor is knowing you're being judged.

Being poor is a box of crayons and a $1 coloring book from a community center Santa.

Being poor is checking the coin return slot of every soda machine you go by.

Being poor is deciding that it's all right to base a relationship on shelter.

Being poor is knowing you really shouldn't spend that buck on a Lotto ticket.

Being poor is hoping the register lady will spot you the dime.

Being poor is feeling helpless when your child makes the same mistakes you did, and won't listen to you beg them against doing so.

Being poor is a cough that doesn't go away.

Being poor is making sure you don't spill on the couch, just in case you have to give it back before the lease is up.

Being poor is a $200 paycheck advance from a company that takes $250 when the paycheck comes in.

Being poor is four years of night classes for an Associates of Art degree.

Being poor is a lumpy futon bed.

Being poor is knowing where the shelter is.

Being poor is people who have never been poor wondering why you choose to be so.

Being poor is knowing how hard it is to stop being poor.

Being poor is seeing how few options you have.

Being poor is running in place.

Being poor is people wondering why you didn't leave.


Posted by john at September 3, 2005 12:14 AM


http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/003704.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Being Poor Additional Comments Post: http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/003708.html


Reaffirming Christianity (a followup to "Being Poor"): http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/003713.html

[BeHereNow]

1. And more and more Americans are slipping through the cracks every year.

Thank you for this sobering post.
BHN

[PoconoPragmatist]

35. And People STILL WONDER Why I Support John Edwards!!!

n/t

[AnotherGreenWorld]

59. If poverty's your issue, why not Kucinich? Or even Obama for that matter...

Is there even one thing with respect to poverty that makes Edwards better than Kucinich or Obama?

[JANdad]

72. Yeah...he has a PLAN...

Obama just added it to his agenda and DK has NO PLAN at all!

[Exiled in America]

101. Well the fact that its the entire theme of his campaign and he has outlined specific plans to deal..

...with poverty and strengthening organized labor. He's the only candidate consistently talking about poverty as the major issue of his campaign. No one else can say that.

[Triana]

114. EXACTLY what you said, Exiled. It's Edwards for me - for just the reasons you stated (n/t)

[AnotherGreenWorld]

122. He talks about it, yes.

But Kucinich's plans actually would deal with eliminating poverty. Edwards's doesn't seem all that different than Clinton.

[Exiled in America]

131. Oh. Edwards is no different than Clinton. You're right.

My mistake.

[PoconoPragmatist]

147. For One...

he has a plan. For two, Kucinich is not electable. For three, Obama will lose with white-racist vote.

I'm going with the guy who is
A - most on board with the issues I care about AND
B- Actually has a chance of getting elected.

[Justyce]

76. I'm with you.

I think he's the wisest choice all the way around.

[robinlynne]

105. me too.

[Nia Zuri]

100. Why I support Edwards as well

[Exiled in America]

102. With ya, brother!

[Maraya1969]

117. I need a serious answer to this and I probably won't get it if I reply

to the OP since this thread is a mile long now.


Please do not flame me. I tried to figure out how a person can only make a little over $8,000 per year as most people in the OP's article said they made. Unless they can only work part time because of their children.

At $5/hour with a 40 hour work week you would make $10,400. And the companies have to pay at least $5 right? The only way I can see a person making less is if they are not legal citizens and are being abused by unscrupulous companies.

What am I missing?

[Stargazer99]

121. Out of that $10,000 you didn't calculate social security taxes

at a rate of 7.65% of gross. $8,000 divided by 12 = less than $1000 per month. This is supposed to cover dental, medical, rent, gas, car repairs, childcare. Do the math!

[Maraya1969]

127. I am not at all saying $10,000 is not horribly poor.

I just wanted to know how they got to that damn number!

[Extend a Hand]

129. minimum wage workers

especially in food service are frequently don't get 40 hrs on a regular basis. Sick? no pay
Business slow? somebody gets sent home with no pay
No child care? no pay

[Nikia]

171. At some businesses, it is difficult to get full time hours

Sometimes even if you are scheduled to work full time, they often send you home early. When I worked at a fast food restaurant, they did this all the time. Because of the way they schedule and the fact that they often don't let you work all your scheduled hours, it may be difficult to get another job, especially since it would likely be at a company which does the same thing.

[BeHereNow]

2. Big fat recommend and kick-

BHN:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[AverageJoe]

3. K & R

:kick:

[EFerrari]

4. K&R

:hug:

[SoCalDem]

5. media makes poor people feel even poorer..

Not all that many decades ago, poor people tended to all live in the same areas, and since everyone they knew was in the same circumstance as they were, no one felt as poor as they really were.. Until the kids went to high school, they probably spent all their time with their real peers..kids just like them..

Before TV, radio made "rich" anything you could imagine in your own mind.. but tv brings it into your living room and rams it down your throat..

[bobbolink]

55. Actually, what makes *me* feel poor is the judgements and dismissals of people who say they care.

I get what you mean, but...

The things that are said directly hurt much more than some image on a screen.

[fed-up]

6. being poor means no justice-quote from lawyer I talked to-"I'm $250 hr-how are you going to pay me"

There is some free legal aid out there, but it does not cover many issues.

But to resolve many injustices and fraud requires money upfront.

I am almost done working my way through the phone book trying to find a lawyer to take my real estate contract rescision case about the non-disclosed former meth lab on my property.

First question-"How much did you pay for your house?"
2nd question-"Does the other party have any money?"
3rd question-"I charge $250 an hour, how are you going to pay me?"

or sometimes I get the-"I need a retainer of $5,000 and when that runs out I will need more" .....


no money-no justice.......

[goodgd_yall]

7. So right, so right

A big problem. No power, no justice.

[treestar]

8. Lawyers can't live on air either

Why don't you attack the grocery store for charging $$ too?

Why don't you attack the landlord for charging $$ too?

Being poor means you can't afford anything, that's a problem, by why pick out one group of people and attack them for daring to make a living?

The $250 per hour is overhead - that's not take home pay - the employees and taxes and rent have to be paid first.

And you can always represent yourself - it's not like there is "no justice" merely because you can't afford top flight legal help. You can't afford a Mercedes. So what, you don't drive anything at all and don't take a bus?

Maybe you should work for free, too. That way other poor people don't have to pay you for what you do.

That'll end poverty, all right. :sarcasm:

[fed-up]

9. I was adding to list-almost didn't get to your sarcasm tag-there is a thing called contingency...nt

[PoconoPragmatist]

37. Good Luck!!

Just try getting an attorney to take you on contingency!!

Unless you have an open-and-shut case, fuhgeddaboudit!!

I suffered employement discrimination, and wound up having to represent myself. I was wronged, and I couldn't get anyone to help me. So I helped myself. five years later, the case settled in my favor.

Five fucking years!! That's not justice, that was a part-time job for five years!

[marions ghost]

78. no, lawyers can't live on air

and neither can doctors
and dentists
and plumbers
and landlords
and car mechanics
and power company managers

--and ditto every other essential service that people are shut out of if they can't pay fees that are just too high for their income bracket.

Many people you would consider "middle class" cannot afford lawyers.

Got any solutions to the problem? Theoretically speaking?

[Exiled in America]

104. $250 an hour is overhead. Yeah, that's why he got into a lexus and drove to his summer condo. n/t

It isn't about attacking people for making a living. It is about the ever-growing chasm between the richest and poorest Americans.

We have plenty of statistical data that wages for the poor and middle class of America continue to stagnate or decline as wages for the wealthiest Americans continues to skyrocket. Only a small percentage of Americans are enjoying the American dream, and their doing it off the backs of everyone else.

I don't mind that someone makes more money than I do. Hell my best friend makes $110,000 a year and I make $9 an hour. That's ok. What I do mind however is when the policies of our government do not follow the motto: a rising tide lifts all ships. In other words, if the rich are getting rich, then the poor damn well better be seeing their conditions improve as well. If things are going AWAY from each other, then that is a huge problem.

And by the way, any student of history knows that when wealth starts getting consolidated at the top, and the rich keep getting richer while the poor keep getting poorer, that is the ultimate historical red flag heralding a social collapse. Happens every time, given enough time.

[Stargazer99]

123. the problem is not working for free it is the DIFFERNCE IN INCOME

The amounts requested for legal services don't sound like the lawyers are suffering.

[marions ghost]

74. absolutely true

no money, no justice :cry:

[WindRavenX]

10. K and R

:kick:

:cry:

[silverojo]

11. KICK, KICK, KICK AND RECOMMEND!!!! n/t

[SeattleGirl]

12. Being poor means being the victin of companies and corporations

who will do anything and everything they can to punish you financially.

I'm not as poor as a lot of other people in this country, but I'm struggling financially. And believe me, there are many people out there who will do whatever they can to get as much of your paltry income as they can.

Are you rich? Cool. You get lots of freebies, including tax loopholes.

Are you poor? Tough shit. You are going to get turned upside down by your feet, and every last coin you have will be shaken out of you, and taken by those in power.

That is just one of the things that being poor means in this country.

[barbtries]

23. exactly

my boss takes trips all over the world on a regular basis. drives a porsche to work except when he brings the maserati. not only am i not making enough money to pay the rent, i get to work on a combination of my feet and the bus. and it has been made clear to me that if i ask for a raise i'll likely be shown the door. it is fucked up.

[Stardust]

75. I'm in the same boat. Boss spends ten times more than what I take home each month.

I've never been one to begrudge others what they earn or spend, but it's really hard to cope when I struggle so much. :nopity: And a raise IS out of the question.

I keep on the lookout for that really cheap place to live with employment but am beginning to think it doesn't exist anymore. Hanging head in despair.

[Desert Liberal]

166. I actually had an employer who told me I COULD have a raise

but then it never would happen. I needed the job, so I didn't bug him about it too much. It was a family-owned place and they didn't like my liberal ways (they saw the bumper stickers, I couldn't help it!), so I kept my mouth shut, mostly. Over a year and a half, I worked there and saw everyone (and I'm NOT exaggerating) get a raise, except me. Hadn't been there long enough, you see.
Three times over the first year, I asked for a raise from $7.50 per hour. During this time period, gas prices were rising fast and even with a small car, it was getting expensive to drive back and forth. I would have been happy with a quarter an hour, just enough to cover the increased cost of gas. Ten bucks a week.
Each time, I was told, 'yeah, we'll see what we can do.' Each time, nothing happened. Then the father retired and the son took over. Said my attitude was bad and he would not give me a raise. Well yeah, my attitude was bad. I had been working there about 15 months at that time, and was still waiting on the raise I was supposed to get at my year anniversary, hoping that maybe I could keep my job and my apartment by getting a raise to $8.00 an hour or so. Not huge, but it would have been enough to help a lot. Even working full-time, I still qualified for food stamps, child care assistance, and medicaid (at least until our gov decided $7.50 an hour was too much for a family of three to make and cut me and thousands of others off). I kept thinking that it was so insane that I could be working full time and STILL be poor enough to need that assistance.

But my bosses weren't poor. Once, after I had been told the company couldn't afford to pay me any more, the owner's wife drove into work in a beautiful new SUV. I won't mention the brand, but if you're well-off enough to have it, you aren't going off-road in it. The son had built and sold a house, another one of the kids was doing the same, and there was a $20,000 chandelier sitting in the dock for the longest time for the one son's newest home (which he was also building).

I don't begrudge them their success, but was it really fair to pay me next to nothing, my kids on food stamps and medicaid, just to avoid paying me an extra couple of grand a year? I hardly think so, but they, being good 'Christians' thought I should just pull myself up by my boot straps. Did I mention that I was going to college at the time? I was trying to better our situation. I got what I thought at the outset to be a good job. I started classes as soon as I was able to do so. I was trying. I'm still trying, but that job kept me down instead of helping me get ahead. And who has time to look for another while working, going to school, and taking care of the kids and the house?

Being poor means being trapped, and seeing no way out.

[Stardust]

167. I am so sorry you're struggling and sincerely hope you begin to

see the fruits of your labor. I wish I had some wonderful advice but I just don't. Life just sucks sometimes but it really sounds like you are doing your best. Finding another job is definitely not easy but don't give up. Sounds to me like you're worth way more than what you're getting. Love, power, peace.

[Desert Liberal]

168. Thank you so much

It's hard to type because I'm crying, but thank you for that. You have no idea how much it means just to have a little validation.

:cry: :hug:

[Stargazer99]

125. You are right! I can remember here in the state of Washington

When banks charged large fees for cashing welfare checks. Like the banks needed it! When it comes to utilities they require deposits that other customers don't need to put down. Oh, there are 100s of ways to make it tougher for the poor.
Like the city of Puyallup Washington. They've built a brand new city offices building but CAN'T FIND THE BUILDING FOR THE FOOD BANK. On top of that they've been charging the food bank rent! Perfect example!

[SoCalDem]

13. Must see pics.. (this gallery sums it up visually)

Do not link these pics.. right click & save if you want to post them. Pbase does not allow remote linking.. they have the BEST pics around
http://www.pbase.com/ces0357/real_life_aint_always_pretty

[Iris]

157. As I expect from you SoCalDem,

a thought-provoking post.

Thanks.

[saracat]

14. And this is why we need John Edwards!

[AnotherGreenWorld]

46. Kucinich or Obama would be much better.

[saracat]

48. Respectfully disagree.I like both but this is Edwards leading issue!

[AnotherGreenWorld]

50. But Kucinich's healthcare plan is far better for the poor. So is Obama's.

In fact, I don't really see anything with respect to policy positions that makes Edwards better. Are there any?

[saracat]

66. Edwards plan is the only one that might actually happen.

His positions are rooted in pragmatism.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

68. Why?

No Republicans will get behind Edwards's plan, just as none of them would for Kucinich's. Why not try to rally Democrats around the better plan?

[Justyce]

77. Yes -- he's the best candidate

all the way around -- the economy, health care, workers' rights, poverty issues, free trade problem, etc, etc.... which is why the media is frantically trying to minimize him.

[tkmorris]

15. Holy crap!!

I really have no idea who the hell John Scalzi is, but he knows poor. He nailed it. I have known all of those things, and more, and no one who hasn't been poor, real poor, could ever understand it.

I would add this:

Being poor is pretending the clothes you wear are an affectation, rather than cruel reality.

Being poor is trying to hide when you see the familiar blue Isuzu of your landlord come up the driveway.

Being poor is hot dogs. Lots of hot dogs.

Being poor is staring at the sewage backing up into your shower, and knowing there isn't a thing in the world you can do about it.

Being poor is telling the kids to NOT drink so much milk.

Being poor is putting 1/2 lb of cheap ground beef into the Hamburger Helper.

Being poor means you are a car mechanic. Maybe you don't want to be, or know how, but you are one now.

Being poor means getting that tooth pulled, instead of fixed.

Being poor means you know 813 ways to use government cheese.

One last thing. Being poor means that dropping everything in your life to chase an ephemeral dream of a better life 1000 miles away, based on nothing more than a phone interview, seems like a good idea. My wife did exactly that, and as a result 10 years later we aren't poor anymore. It wasn't necessarily smart, but we were lucky, plus my wife found a way to MAKE it work.

Having been poor leaves it's mark on you. My teeth were ruined by a lack of care/care by a bad dentist. Repairing the damage to anything even remotely decent will require 5 figures just to start. I still cringe whenever our last remaining daughter wastes food. I am a ridiculously cheap shopper. My wife had to fly first class on a business trip recently and the experience nearly gave her a panic attack of self doubt. And so on.

Being poor scars you, in ways that people who haven't walked that walk can never understand. Thank you SapphireBlue, for continuing to post these threads. You ARE heard. Never think you aren't.

[barbtries]

24. tell me more about this

"One last thing. Being poor means that dropping everything in your life to chase an ephemeral dream of a better life 1000 miles away, based on nothing more than a phone interview, seems like a good idea. My wife did exactly that, and as a result 10 years later we aren't poor anymore. It wasn't necessarily smart, but we were lucky, plus my wife found a way to MAKE it work."

in the past couple of days it seems that i am being pointed toward doing something just as radical. actually according to yahoo maps the move would be 2,553 miles away. i just sent off my resume to NC and we'll see where it leads. but when i read that paragraph, i got chills all over, and now i am crying. change is in the air - maybe it WILL be good change.

[kdmorris]

93. More info

In 1998, we were living on less than $24,000 a year, with 3 children, ages 10, 8, and 6. It was really difficult. And then, I found this one ad on monster.com that fit my job description. So, on a lark, I applied for it. It was a contract position, nothing permanent, but we were getting ready to get kicked out of our rented house and the electric was due to be cut off in 2 weeks.

I did the phone interview and they said they would hire me. So, with my last paycheck from the old job (big $640), I caught a bus on June 20th, 1998 to go from La Plata, MD to Ft. Lauderdale, FL. Tkmorris and children stayed behind for about a week and then we decided we couldn't afford to keep up two homes. I wore clothes from the thrift shop and lied to everyone when they asked why we didn't have furniture (we couldn't afford to move everything, so when tkmorris came down in a Hyundai Elantra with 3 kids and 5 cats, 4 of which were kittens, he only brought those things that fit in the trunk, like pictures.)

To make a long story short, I got hired permanently 5 months later and things became more stable. But, tkmorris gives me way too much credit. I wouldn't not have been able to do any of this without his encouragement and support. I had been poor for so many years that I had absolutely no self-confidence, so he gave me his to help me make it through.

Good luck on your job! It's terrifying, but when it works out, it's a wonderful thing. I wish nothing but the best for you!

[barbtries]

95. you cannot imagine

what a serendipitous time it is in my life to be hearing this story. again i have chills and am crying (and now i'm at work).

we're in CA, facing eviction, can't make enough to get a decent place. two days ago a client at work for whom i had gone the extra mile for, so she could make something happen, was so pleased that offhandedly she said, "i would love to have you on my team." i glanced at the paperwork in front of me, saw that the address was Cary, NC, and said, are you serious?

She said she'd hire me in a heartbeat. Well, one of my best friends in the world is living in Raleigh, NC. I asked how far away is Raleigh, and she said, 5 minutes. Since then it's like my mind has turned 180 degrees from certain destitution in CA to possible comfort in NC.

I haven't the time to tell you how radical the idea was before this woman said what she said. there is just not a way. and i don't know if i can actually do this, or if i absolutely SHOULD. there are pros and there are cons.

so you could say i'm seeking signs, guiding signs. your husband's post this morning was taken as a sign. thank you so much for filling me in; what a lovely story!

[CubicleGuy]

97. A real killer when it comes to getting a better job...

... is that a lot of companies do credit checks on those applying for the jobs. If you've gone through unemployment and bankruptcy, then your credit is shot, and they don't care how qualified you may be for the position you're seeking. Instead, the fact that you've gotten behind on payments tells them that you're irresponsible and that you'll probably be a bad employee; you may (they believe) be tempted to steal from them due to your financial circumstances.

It's really discouraging to have someone tell you that there's no point in applying for the job because you won't pass the credit check. It's a self-perpetuating cycle of failure. If you were once making good money, but ran into hard times, it's like being kicked out of the prosperity club: sorry, buddy, but once you fall from favor, you can never get back in.

[kdmorris]

110. How right you are!

My husband and I were talking about Sapphire's post this morning and were talking about how much worse it must be now. In 1998, they didn't do credit checks yet, so we were lucky. If they had done them, there was no way I would have gotten that job. It took us 2 years to pay off all the debt we owed just so that we could try for a mortgage.

There are more ways these days to make sure that non of "those people" ever even try to get out of the poverty in which they've found themselves. Like I said to someone else, we were lucky.

[Gormy Cuss]

69. "Being poor scars you.."

I can't stand to see food go to waste. I'll save a half a cup of leftover food rather than throw it out. I still shop in thrift stores because I have a hard time paying retail prices for weekend clothes, kitchen tools, et cetera when I know that I can buy perfectly good stuff used. I'm a natural at re-use and recycling -- nothing goes in the trash except trash. I still have nightmares of not having enough money to pay my bills. I haven't been poor in decades.

[Mugu]

120. You're not alone in that feeling.

I can remember running out of food and money at the same time and having to forage along fence rows for wild asparagus and raspberries (neither of which I care for today.)

Now, nobody would consider me poor, but the computer that I'm using was bought at the Salvation Army as was the shirt that I'm wearing. I can tell you the price of very item in my shopping cart, use coupons when I have them, stock up when things are on sale, and very seldom eat out. My ladyfriend laughs at me for washing and reusing plastic bags.

In the next day or two I'm going to the auto salvage yard to see about a brake rotor for my 10 year old truck. I've already turned this rotor once and it's warping again. While I've got it apart, I will probably change the brake pads and rotate the tires. I can afford to have the work done, but I know that I would feel guilty spending money that I didn't have to.

Regards, Mugu

[Beerboy]

16. Unless you collect 1 million/month off interest, you're poor.

The PTB can discount you as a non-citizen subject to torture if you can't/won't pay your country club bills. We aren't citizens in Bush's America, but mere subjects to yield up cash and constitutional liberties at the discretion of the 'Executive'.

[SoCalDem]

17. Congrats Beerboy.. you made the triple digit club.. see the hostess for your prizes

[Nikia]

172. Did you read the original post?

I suppose that some people think that it is good to accept solidarity with the poor even if they are well off. People who are not poor in the ways of the original post though don't have the misfortune of those experiences.

[Richard Steele]

18. K&R

[H2O Man]

19. Very good.

I've always thought that Gandhi nailed it when he said that poverty is the worst form of violence.

From time to time, the topic of pancakes comes up in our home. My children will tell anyone that "Dad will never eat a pancake." To them, it is a humorous story about my no longer ingesting something that I ate for both meals during a long stretch of my childhood. Due to a changing economy. My father went from gainfully employed, to unemployed, and with five children. When the weather damaged our gardens, food was really scarce.

It wasn't a new experience for my dad. His father had come to this country from the Old Sod in the 1800s, made a good living, and was then the victim of economic circumstances. It changes the way people think and act. I remember after my father died, though he was okay financially, he had several cans of bent nails that he had saved in his workshop. Old habits die hard.

I was the youngest sibling. Being poor also means wearing what can only be called the wrong clothes when you are the youngest kid. In some cases -- though certainly not all -- being poorly dressed will impact a teacher's expectations of a student. Of course, hungry kids can have a difficult time concentrating on what is being taught. But what I remember as being painful was that some of my classmates would get a giggle out of some of my ill-fitting clothes, and a couple of the girls would tell them not to laugh.

I don't save bent nails, but I probably spend too much on my children's clothes, and there is always food here.

[barbtries]

25. my ex-mother-in-law was in Aushwitz

i can't remember how to spell it - but anyway. when we visited them in brooklyn i recall the food. food everywhere - she kept so much food on hand that a closet in the living room was full of it as well as the overflowing pantries in the kitchen. i've always believed that that was a small example of one of the effects of having known true hunger. i miss a meal and say "i'm starved." she and her sisters pinched each other's cheeks when the bad guys made their rounds, because if they looked too weak or pale they would be gassed.

[Gregorian]

36. My grandmother did the same thing!

Oh my god. But my grandmother was Armenian. They were subjected to a holocaust as well. She was always telling us to eat when we were there. And she had food everywhere. Oh, how sad.


By the way, I save bent nails.

[NOLALady]

90. Yep,

Old habits die hard. There's always more than enough food in my pantry. If the freezers aren't stacked to the gills, I get anxiety attacks.
When there's a hurricane in the Gulf, I NEVER have to run to the store to stock up on food.

[madokie]

20. do I know this subject like the back of my hand.

you want to talk about poor, well lets talk about being poor. I was born in a poor family with 10 kids before me and two after me. We wore hand-me-downs because well we had to wear clothes you know. food well think about feeding all us kids on less than a dollar a day. my brother of four years senior and I would get up at the time when our mother did, 0400 am. during the winter months when she got up to build a fire in the wood cookstove, jack, my bro and I would go out and run our rabbit traps and if there were any rabbits that morning we would have meat with our breakfast of eggs and oatmeal, in the summer months go squirrel hunting, if not well no meat. by the time I was in first grade I could clean a rabbit or squirrel like the big boys, rabbits in the winter months, squirrels in the summer months is what we ate for meat, once in a while a slab of bacon would come along or wow a couple pounds of hamburger meat and brother it would be like we hit the big time but only for a fleeting moment as the hamburger meat just didn't last long as it was such a treat. Having to build our own toys because we couldn't buy them and had no one to give them to us. Thats a trait I still too today do at the ripe old age of 59 and counting, build my own toys. My intent was to write about the hardships of my childhood but I find it too emotional to go any further.

peace and love to all
thats what I was raised on.

[tkmorris]

21. Peace and love to you too sir

You are not alone. There are a lot of us ex-poor, or still poor out here and we know exactly what you mean. You don't see people talk about it much because, if you are anything like me, just thinking about those times is hard and depressing, and something I usually avoid. Plus, there is a shame factor involved for me, never mind that that is illogical, it's there nonetheless. So I pretend I never was poor. It's simpler.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

22. Here is a post I put on an audio forum a while back in response to someone having to sell their gear

The OP I replied to:

My wife and I are expecting a baby in two months and my wife is going crazy because we still need a bunch of stuff for the baby (furniture, stroller, etc, etc). I'm excited for the baby, but bummed about losing my hobby which I really enjoy.


Two words:

Baby shower.

When my wife and I had our daughter we didn't even have chairs to sit in, we had rolled our van with everything we owned in it and the trailer behind during a move across several states. We were living in a 12x60 mobile home and had no car. I was getting back and forth to a low paying and very nasty job by a Honda 125 motorcycle, the only transportation we had.

I took my wife to prenatal checkups on the back of that micro motorcycle.

We would go to the grocery store on the motorcycle and return with my wife holding two bags of groceries. That was all we could carry.

We even went to the laundromat carrying our clothes on the motorcycle.

We were getting food stamps and WIC and eating as frugally as we could.

It is that experience which drives much of my advise to people on this forum.

Don't spend your money too freely, you never know when the wolf will show up at the door.

Get the most bang for the buck, research, shop smart and be frugal.

You don't have to live an ascetic life like a monk, but consider the cost/benefit ratio when you decide to purchase something.

There is the law of diminishing returns, the first hundred dollars on headphones will get you a pretty nice pair. The next hundred dollars will get you a somewhat nicer pair.

The hundred after that... can you really and truly tell the difference?

Is that minor difference really worth it?

I buy almost nothing new, and when I do I am often disappointed, which drives me even further away from buying new stuff.

America is a throwaway society and eventually we will pay the piper for our spree.

I fear the time is closer at hand than most would believe.

My parents lived through the depression. If you think I'm cheap you have no idea. My dad would eat *anything* and like it. Tongue, liver, brains, kidney, tripe, pickled pig's feet, hog jowls and mountain oysters. When he was a child they had no heat in the home and no running water, if they wanted to take a bath they heated the water over the fireplace and put it in one of those galvanized metal tubs you see in Westerns sometimes.

He told me once that he asked a boy that was eating an apple if he could have the core. The reply? There ain't gonna be no core to this apple.

I would guess that most of you think we were really miserable living like that.

You would be wrong, we were having a great time and really enjoying each other. Hardship can bring people together or it can tear you apart.

In our case it brought us together, we were lucky that way but we also worked at it.

I have realized sometime over the last twenty years or so, that the wanting is very often better than the having. As soon as you get that which you want, you then start wanting something else.

Congratulations on your new baby and may your life be full of joy and love.

Jon

[redqueen]

42. People in the depression were happy like that!

And slaves were well cared for, too! They liked the security, I'll bet!

JESUS CHRIST!

:puke:

[The Vinyl Ripper]

44. I'm telling my own story and you puke?

It doesn't take a lot of money to be happy.

Happiness comes from within, not from without.

[NOLALady]

107. You are absolutely correct.

We were as poor as everyone in the neighborhood. But we weren't unhappy because we were poor. There was a sense of community and sharing that would be the envy of any gated sub.
We learned to make our own toys. We competed with each other and we were proud of our creations.
Money is necessary for survival in this society, but that does not always translate into happiness.

If it doesn't kill you, it'll make you stronger.

[glitch]

62. He didn't say that. And my Mom says it was hard being poor during the Depression, but at least every

one else was poor too, and you didn't feel so alone and ostracized. It is harder now.

They haven't forgotten the Depression, or the pain in it. But they do value the community they had during it, something we have lost and desperately need to get back, if only for our own survival. She and my Dad both volunteer helping the homeless find housing and manning food banks.

[redqueen]

81. "we were having a great time and really enjoying each other" during the depression

Sorry, but IMO it's not far off... and it's way too close to the 'happy slaves' argument for me to not say anything about it.

You're free to have your opinion about what they said, as am I.

[glitch]

88. Agreed, we have our own opinions.

Black and white thinking isn't going to solve any of our problems. FWIW.

[redqueen]

89. Implying that poor people should suck it up and be happy anyway

while the rich live like pigs on Gilded Age unearned earnings is not black or white. It's just insulting and disgusting.

[glitch]

92. That our economy is sick and the distribution of income is disgusting is a given. No one implied

that poor people should suck it up and be happy anyway while the rich live like pigs on Gilded Age. No one. Read our posts again, please.

Implying that poor people can't find a reason to value life in family/community is itself insulting. And limiting. People can find ways to bring value and joy to their lives, even in poverty. It's an insult to the human spirit to think otherwise, and acknowledging that ability does not imply that living in poverty is desirable or that income redistribution is not absolutely necessary.

[redqueen]

94. Our? Are you on a team with Vinyl Ripper?

Did I say they couldn't find a reason to value life? No.

Did I react with shock and disgust at the assertion that poor people during the depression were havin a grand ole time of it... and the implication that poor people now should do the same?

This conversation is not about how to be happy while living on less than enough to get by. This conversation is intended to highlight how difficult it is for poor people to get by.

How do you think statements like 'we were havin a grand ole time' are expected to come across, in a thread like this? Cause to me it comes off as BEYOND out of place.

[glitch]

111. Nope, not a team. Don't even think I ever saw his posts before. I thought he had an interesting

story. I tried to explain where I thought he was coming from, my assumptions are based on my mother having similar stories from the Depression.

It is possible I am being dense for not picking up on the implications you are assuming. Do you think it's possible that you might be mistaken in your assumptions?

[redqueen]

112. No, I don't think so.

I think the context of the thread that was posted in says it all.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

You would judge the happiness or unhappiness of others?

We were young, we were in love and we had a child on the way.

It was Florida, in the summer, the job I was working was so hot that when I went outside to eat my bag lunch it felt like walking into air conditioning.

Life was hard during the depression but do you think everyone was uniformly grim and humorless?

Even the Soviets at the lowest point of the Soviet economy made jokes.

A man is standing in long line to buy something, he doesn't know what it is because if you see a line in froni of a shop you automatically get in the line. After an extended wait with no apparent progress the man suddenly declares "I'm going to kill Kruschev" to the man behind him and leaves.

After a considerable period the man returns to the line and the man that was behind him asks him if he had managed to kill Kruschev. "No, the line was too long".

People use humor as a means of getting through hard times.

One of the tricks to get through hard times in America is don't watch commercial television. Commercial TV is designed to make you want stuff you don't really need and to feel bad about yourself if you can't buy it.

[redqueen]

119. no i don't think everyone was grim or humorless

let's stop conflating two issues here, ok?

this thread is not about 'how to be happy while poor'. i'm well aware that it's possible. however, IMO that is far from the point of this thread.

this thread is decrying the shamelessness of the situation in this country right now. we are living in a new gilded age, and we on this board are trying to change things. maybe it's just me... maybe i'm the only one that reads your post as insulting... being posted, as it was, in a thread like this. it's all about context.

whatever. i'm done debating it.

have a nice night.

[The Vinyl Ripper]

124. I was trying to give practical advice..

Having been there myself, I know how to survive poor.

I told the story because it was the setup for my advice, to show that I was not just giving a lecture on a subject of which I knew nothing.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

160. I think the point he was displaying is that while they were going through hell...

They made the best out of a shitty situation by loving each other and being happy anyway. I don't understand why this pisses you off so much. :shrug:
Duckie

[redqueen]

161. like i said... context

in a thread talking about how bad poverty is... for someone to sing the praises of how it brought them closer together... ugh

[YellowRubberDuckie]

169. I don't think he said it was wonderful....

I really think he just said that one good thing that came out of it....If you notice, a lot of stinky rich families are not close, unless someone dies and the vultures swarm.
Duckie

[YellowRubberDuckie]

159. Wow.

Way to poop on someone's memories about how they made the best of a really bad situation. Elitist much?
Duckie

[redqueen]

162. i'm not pooping on anything

i'm questioning tact and motives

[zippy890]

26. kick the poor are getting poorer

and more disenfrancised with each passing year under the "Ownership Society" regime.

good post

:dem:

[lapislzi]

27. Error: you have already recommended this thread

This is poetry--the hard kind that makes you think. Thank you.

[waiting for hope]

28. Thank you SB - you are surely are

one true hero here. You commitment to ending poverty and raising awareness is admired and respected.

:hug:

and a big kick and rec!

[bpeale]

29. this really hits home

i see myself in many of these "definitions." but we make +/-$55,000 year but have 5 people living in a space meant for only 3 at most. Back in January, my husband & I were alone in our 1600 sq. ft house with 5 pet cats. then came March, and our daughter & her husband with their 3 cats, moved in with us (he's still in school). then my sister ended up in a battered women's shelter, and I just could not leave her there, so she was brought out here. So now we have 5 adults & 8 cats living in a space not meant for this many. there are days when i just do not know what to do. we have a mortgage payment, a car payment, credit card payments & everyone just has so many needs that i cannot keep up. Before everyone came, we had money in the bank, we paid our bills promptly & made higher than requested payments. Now I feel broke all the time. And I worry.

[spinbaby]

31. I know the feeling

We've been lucky enough to keep our jobs, but our relatives--good, honest, hard-working folk--are becoming needier and we're helping them out. Why is it that a thrifty woman with a full-time and a part-time job faces a crisis when her 10-year-old car dies? That's not her fault, it's the fault of a system that lets her work at two jobs that together don't pay enough to support one woman and a car.

[mdmc]

30. One paycheck away from homeless

we are all so poor,,,

[AnotherGreenWorld]

33. Hmm, I don't know.

I actually was homeless as a kid. I don't think the average middle-class American has it so bad as they think, and I doubt very many on here are "so poor."

[mdmc]

38. no, we are all rich

Or at least we can afford high speed internet access...

[AnotherGreenWorld]

43. false dichotomy

[Tsiyu]

40. I know kids who are living in a campground. In a tent. They all work.

Their parents are dead or in prison or unable to help them. One of the couples living in the tent thought they had a place but the landlord found out about their three-year-old and said she would not rent to anyone with kids.

"I guess she thinks it's better for a three-year-old to be out in the streets," the mother of the three-year-old said to me.

One of the gals works 3 jobs. She worked with me for a time and she is a go-getter with an awesome work ethic. She has been on her own since 14. She is 18.

I know a couple who just had their first baby. Home birth, not because they don't have insurance - they don't - but she is an amazing woman who was herself home-birthed. She eats healthier than anyone I know. But dad can't find any work. There are few decent jobs in Middle Tennessee. So he is going back into the NG and back to Iraq.

After her birth, the midwife was concerned about a small tear and took her to a hospital In Winchester, Tennessee. They refused to stitch her for FOUR HOURS because the couple is poor and had a home birth. Fortunately, the midwife's husband is an attorney and he was there at the hospital as well so she FINALLY ended up getting stitches six hours later.

They were told all the doctors were out on a local lake. Meanwhile, the hospital authorities called security and shut down an entire wing of the hospital because that was easier to do - to threaten the couple - than to just spend 15 minutes sewing this woman up. Her husband is a vet, in case I didn't mention that.

There are a lot of DUers a lot poorer than you might imagine. I could tell my own story right now but i am too busy trying to pull myself up by my bootstraps.

As in, very soon, I hope to be able to buy those boots everyone says I should have.

[KamaAina]

47. In Hawai'i there are people who work who live on the *beach*.

They're trapped between a low-wage service-based economy and an overheated real estate market in which a substandard studio apartment rents for $600 a month -- if you are extremely lucky.

[Tsiyu]

60. It's insane

To have people living outdoors while trying to work.

It really is insane that five young people - all working one or more jobs - can't afford a roof over their heads.

The cost of living has skyrocketed while jobs are scarce and wages are stagnant. And this is what we get...

These kids are already "old and tired." I see it in their eyes.

I know so many people who have slipped into poverty it alarms me.

[marions ghost]

82. there are people

camping in the woods around where I live...only a stone's throw from the neighborhoods full of McMansions. They prefer it to the crowded shelters.

[Tsiyu]

115. I don't blame them

this campground nearby is owned by folks I know, very safe and yes, it is preferable to what a shelter would be like.

Fotunately, the "projects" here are very nice but there are no shelters to speak of. People do camp everywhere and no zoning means even the poorest can craft some sort of structure.

[Katherine Brengle]

39. I don't know about that...

even people living paycheck to paycheck can survive fairly well, at least as long as they can work. It's not comfortable, there's a lot of stress, and god forbid a crisis comes up, but one can survive.

Of course, not true if your paycheck is the below-or-at-or-slightly-above-the-poverty-level variety - then you could be in a lot of trouble.

[gollygee]

32. Wow. That's powerful

K&R

[PoconoPragmatist]

34. Poverty is like being in prison. Why even try to stay alive? For what?

That pretty much said it all.

[blues90]

56. Yes it does .

[redqueen]

41. I wonder how many moderates have said they should all just get better jobs.

Gonna go back and read the thread now and find out. :)

[RandomKoolzip]

65. Yup.

I love that one. "Why don't you just get a better job?"

Sure! Why don't YOU just sprout wings and fly? Or better yet, why don't you just blow me, asshole?

:hi:

[redqueen]

70. aahaahahaahahaha!

:loveya:

:hug:

:hi:

[Irishonly]

45. Thank you

I cried when I read it. It's past time we allow those who blame the poor to get by with their hate.

[wicket]

49. K & R

:kick:

[zehnkatzen]

51. When the Catholic Church is good, it's very good...

..and when it's bad, it's horrid.

I said that so I could say this:

I have a big set of issues with the RC faith. I still call it my own: it was the faith in which I was born into, baptised into, and raised up and eventually confirmed (of my own wholehearted assent) into. But in many ways, the Church has left me; the Church's stance on gay marriage, women's rights and liberties, and the general role the Church can play in liberating and politically empowering the world's impoverished (think liberation theology in Central America ca. 1970s-1980s, and the subsequent disowning thereof) has, in my thoughtful opinion, been embarrassing–nearly as much as the Church's shameful mishandling of certain parishioner-abuse issues.

I go on at length about why I am disaffected from this Church because I think it's important to say, where everyone can see it, that I conversely think I can honestly say there are some areas that the Catholic Church has not lost its leading position. And, thanks to the CCHD, I see great hope.

The RC Church, in contravention to what I see (and I stress that it's what I see, and I could be getting some of this wrong) has, in my honest and somewhat arrogant opinion, the most honest and forthright campaign for awareness of the poor and why such inequity is wrong and should be seen as a stain on our society than any other group.

While there are other campaigns with equally admirable goals, they always seem to have some ulterior motive. On particular one is Feed The Children, whose campaign, while quite laudable, couldn't seem to end their appeals without a reference to how their work helps "pave the way for the Gospel", which in my interpretation, is code for expecting them, whatever they are, to turn FTC's preferred sort of Christian in return for help, which reduces it to the status of a mere invoice.

What's important to me in the Christian value of charity is that it's something that you do to lift your fellow man because it's the right thing to do, not because you think you deserve something in return for it! Expecting one thing–even one might think of as noble, such as conversion to Christianity (or away from whatever Christian faith they follow to the one you follow), replaces the altruistic motive with one based on greed, and greed based on a holy motive is still greed.

Catholic evangelism has always, as far as I've been able to see, predicated intellectually on positive examples, not angry shouts from a street corner, and certainly not televangelist begging and fatwa. And the CCHD's campaign is the very essence of that to me; they state the facts, they give you concrete examples, they explain what the poor go through. They don't demand that you agree with Catholicism; they don't expect you to convert to Catholicism; they certainly don't approach the poor with a "and what have you done for us in return" attitude that most modern religious charity adopts.

They just put their convictions, and the situation, in your face...and ask "what are you, Christian, going to do about this?"

When the Catholic Church is good, it's very good...and the CCHD is very good indeed.

Kicked, recommended.

[superkia]

52. I almost tearded up, OUTSTANDING POST!

I never complained growing up because I knew my mom did everything in her power for us and I was able to still greatly enjoy my childhood because of her, even though we went through some shit that wasn't very fun.

I had no problems dealing with the broken used toys for xmas or the ketchup or mayonnaise sandwich that was so damn good at the time but these were the ones that really burned me growing up with nothing and even today hearing people I know say these same things about other broke people. They have been fortunate and have no idea what its like, they only think they do!!!!!!



Being poor is people who have never been poor wondering why you choose to be so.

Being poor is knowing you work as hard as anyone, anywhere.

Being poor is people surprised to discover you're not actually stupid.

Being poor is people surprised to discover you're not actually lazy.



If it weren't for myself and one of my brothers, my mom would be living off of $6720 a year!

[bobbolink]

53. When we poor people are asked, the truth comes out.

When "experts" are asked, ....

well, it's a different story.

Power to the voices of poor folk!

Thanks, Sapphire Blue, for yet another post of the truth!

:hug:

[kineneb]

54. being poor is...

always being behind, financially and emotionally.

being poor is... knowing the only difference between working and getting SSI is Medicaid eligibility.

being poor is accepting the food give-aways when friends clean out their freezers.

being poor is getting the free food bag once a month and being glad about it. (You ought to see the weird stuff the Gov. gives away. And we are supposed to be soooo grateful. "Please, sir; may I have some more?" )

kineneb,
Female, 49 (today!), California, household of two, income of $11,940 to $15,019



I am going to appeal the SSI finding that I am "not disabled". But... they max they will pay is $600/month. If I do not win the appeal, I can only earn $600/mo. anyway, because anything above that gets paid out for healthcare as "share-of-cost". Just the generic 300mg of Wellbutrin is $123/month; I have to get the Cymbalta as samples because it is even more expensive. If I stop taking them, I will be a suicide risk.

For us, universal, single-payer healthcare would make all the difference.

[thedeej]

58. Being Poor

Is talking too much about being poor and not enough about how to get rich!
Keep on plugging away.

[kdmorris]

108. You've got to be kidding

THAT'S what you got out of such a powerful post as this? That being poor is talking too much about being poor? It's a grinding, soul-sucking way of life.

Have you ever had to tell your kids that dinner would consist of ONE hot dog because the package (used to be 10 in a pack) has to last for TWO dinners?

Have you ever gone to bed hungry because your child was hungry and there's no way you could eat food when they were still hungry?

You can't just keep plugging away. Only the lucky make it out. I am aware EVERY day that the only reason we made it out was sheer damned luck. There's still thousands who weren't lucky enough and suffer every day.

[kineneb]

128. No bootstraps left

The chronically ill and their families are not allowed to think of getting rich in modern Amerika. Try being a full-time caregiver to a dialysis patient sometime.

[Justyce]

79. During the Reagan years, my dad

was laid off & there just wasn't any work for a long time. He would have to stand in line to get a slab of welfare cheese. Not that we weren't grateful for it, but I've always wondered WHY just a slab of cheese....

[barbtries]

96. it seems weak to say it,

but anyway you are wished a happy birthday!!

[steven88]

57. The children are hurt 100 times more than the adults

My wife and I have befriended a number of of what you would call the poor. It started with helping children that befriended our young daughter and that led to friendships with the parents. We have ended up helping these friends both emotionally and financially. It rips at the heart to see how the children live in some of these homes. The stress that the parents face every day sometimes makes it impossible for the parents to be good parents. You can see how the children are fordained to unhappy lives, never knowing what it is to get and give love freely and unconditionally. A little emotional support to the parents goes a long way in helping the children have a happier life.
I feel for the parents but I weep for the children.

[catmandu57]

61. Poor is all I know

At this stage of life it's all I ever expect to know. It's not like we're desperete poor, but things can get pretty dicey. Yesterday I had forty earmarked dollars left in the bank to last the rest of the month, and that's not a problem really.
I've gone through so months of being broke it's a way of life, if I have twenty bucks left by the third week something extrordinary has happened or I'm saving it.

Anyway, back to the story at hand. My wife was sick, sick enough to where she needed to go to the clinic. In the past she qualified for a sliding scale of 45.00, I had 40.00.

So, not counting meds, we were heading to a hole right off, she pled with the staff and got the scale reduced to 35.00 and got her medication from wally's four dollar list, so we did catch a break.

The thing is we shouldn't have to make decions like that, it sucks. The money was put up for her birthday, today I haven't the cash I'd planned on, but she feels much better, and for that I'm grateful, but it still sucks big green ones.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

63. Wow. I've been in that position, long ago,

and people would just say fuck off, $45.

Often, of course, too, the drug the doctor says you need, the drug for which he's probably getting kickbacks, you really don't need; it causes other problems, and you've just spent the only money you had on a drug that will fuck up your life, a drug far more dangerous than anything illegal.

[thedeej]

64. Poor is all I know

Why have you lived your life this way?

[Justyce]

80. ???

.

[Greyskye]

132. Why have you?

Clueless and un-empathic that is.

Oh yeah, welcome to DU. Although I have this funny feeling after seeing what else you've posted so far...

[KneelBeforeZod]

106. Hmmm ...

>> got the scale reduced to 35.00 and got her medication from wally's four dollar list, so we did catch a break.

I've often thought we're FAR too hard on Wal-Mart for EXACTLY this reason. As many flaws as WM has ... they do more for the poor in this country than the government does. They offer essential goods (including food and medicine), of reasonable quality, at affordable prices - in addition to offering entry-level jobs to people who may not otherwise be able to work. They competitively drive prices down so that goods are affordable to many that would not otherwise be able to buy them.

I've always thought our attacks on Wal-Mart smacked of elitism ... many poor people NEED Wal-Mart's services.

Z

[Wednesdays]

139. Wow, if Wally World is seen as the Almighty Savior

Then that shows how REALLY screwed up this country's priorities are. :puke:

[KneelBeforeZod]

150. Almighty savior?

Hyperbole, much? Where did I say Wal-Mart was any almighty savior?

I simply said their exitence often helps people who might otherwise be overlooked by the US capitalist society ... for instance, the poster above who needed medication and found it on the $4 Wal-Mart list.

Yes - Wal-Mart has HUGE problems, as any mega-corporation does. Low wages, lousy working conditions, discrimination against women and minorities in promotions, driving costs so low that small-businesses can't compete, etc.

These are significant issues, to be sure, and we should certainly continue to speak out against them. But - in our zeal to take down a corporate giant, we often overlook the good things they do ... making goods affordable to the poor by competitively driving down costs, offering literally THOUSANDS of entry-level jobs to people who might otherwise be permanently unemployed, offering affordable prescription drugs to the uninsured, etc. Hell - Sam's Club (a Wal-Mart chain) offers relatively affordable private health insurance coverage to its members (at least in Texas they do).

My point wasn't that Wal-Mart was some savior ... but that they're not as wholly evil as they're often painted.

Z

[kenny blankenship]

67. Being poor in America is kept as close to hell on earth as the non-poor can make it

without unduly exerting themselves. Poverty in our social order is not to be ameliorated or treated as a social ill that can be cured. Poverty is an essential part of the system which is maintained to induce cooperation - not cooperation from the poor, but from the middle classes who are terrorized by the spectacle of poverty and crime and by the realization that they could be one missed paycheck away from being thrown into the pit with the nameless damned.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

85. Nail. Hammer. Head. n/t

[Lilith Velkor]

71. Being poor is getting hassled about bumper stickers when you ain't got a car.

[Hydra]

73. I have another one

Being poor is having to decide whether you value your family more than your value your food.

I'm taking care of a disabled relative, who was poisoned on the job and denied workman's comp- "Pre-existing condition", who has been denied twice by SSDI, so now we have to wait for 15 months for a hearing. I barely make enough for myself, and now I have another mouth to feed, and their housing is gone soon, so I'll have to move out of my rented room and try to find something big enough for both of us.

Luckily my job has internet access, and a boss who doesn't care if I read DU! YAY!

I've worked at the same company for 8 years, and when I asked for more money or a better position to deal with my new situation, I was told that I served at the pleasure of the company, and that I should feel luckly to have the pitiful wage that I do, and that my living conditions were none of their concern.

That's the real problem of poverty.

Being poor is having people say "it's none of my concern" when they've made it impossible to survive for you.

It may not be your concern, but it is certainly your fault.

[liberal N proud]

83. :(

This one really got me...

Being poor is making lunch for your kid when a cockroach skitters over the bread, and you looking
over to see if your kid saw.
:cry:

It does not have to be like this in America.

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

84. I know the shame of being poor

edited after reading other people's posts and realizing I don't have anything to complain about.

[Hydra]

86. Sure you do

it could ALWAY be worse, but that doesn't make what's happening to you less important.

There shouldn't be ANY poverty in the US if we are really are a "Superpower"

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

87. thank you

I grew up poor in the US and have a lot of bitter memories about affluent classmates rubbing my hand me down and goodwill bought clothes in my face but I never went hungry and if I needed a medical care, I got it. So many others here didn't.

[proud patriot]

91. this one hit me like a rock

"Being poor is having to live with choices you didn't know you made when you were 14 years old."

[KneelBeforeZod]

103. Actually - that one applies to everybody ... not just the poor.

"Being poor is having to live with choices you didn't know you made when you were 14 years old."

That should say "'Growing up' (or perhaps just 'Living')is about having to live with choices ..."

Z

[Wednesdays]

140. Yeah, eternal debtor's prison for all you losers

who didn't know better at 14 years of age. :eyes:

[Madspirit]

98. k&r...n/t

[Exiled in America]

99. This is why JOHN EDWARDS is the candidate I support.

[ulysses]

109. thank you.

As always, thank you.

[kdmorris]

113. Once again, Sapphire, you have posted stuff that just makes me cry!

I've been there. And every time I read your posts, see your videos or see your responses, it just brings back all the shame, horror and pain that those years brought into my life. We are out of it now, but I live in terror every day of going back there.

At least this time, we wouldn't have young children we are dragging through the horror with us. But I still want to never go back.

And I want to never forget. Thank you for all you do in your fight to keep poverty in the front of the minds of us all.

I would wish that no one ever has to go through that. But, every day, millions do and more slip silently into that pit.

:cry:

[meowomon]

116. Being poor is

eating calorie laden junk like Ramen noodles, potatoes and macaroni and cheese from a box because you can't afford the fresh vegetables and fruit. And then having some jerk saying, "You can't be poor if you're fat!"

[AnotherGreenWorld]

126. I dont know...

When I was poor, I never had the luxury of eating excessive calories. Nor did my mom or my sister. As such getting fat was the least of our worries.

[Wednesdays]

141. Perhaps you hadn't noticed this country has changed

the last few years. I can vouch that the cheapest foods are generally the highest in saturated fat.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

146. I ate shitty food as a kid, too.

I just didn't eat that much of it--because we didn't have any to eat. I never ate fruits, vegetables, or anything nutritious--lots of cereal, which, if you buy generic brands, still is relatively affordable. Yes, it's unhealthy. But it's hard to get fat when you can't eat. That is what happens when you are poor.

Eating over 2000 calories/day when you are poor is difficult, even if you only eat donuts.

[Forkboy]

118. Too many of these hit home.

:cry:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

130. Being poor when you are an adult happened to me.

This was in the 90s. I couldn't find a job. I have three college degrees including a J.D. My parents had plenty of money in the bank, and I borrowed my mom's car. I needed a car to look for a job.

I had liquidated my IRA and used it to live on. My mom wanted her car back. She was legally blind and did not drive. She paid a lady to drive her to the doctor. She hired a lawyer to send me a nasty letter to take the car back to her. She could have sued me civilly or charged me criminally with auto theft or unauthorized use of a motor vehicle. So I had to take the car back that she couldn't drive.

The parents couldn't understand why I couldn't get a job and I couldn't either. The church I went to refused to pay me for helping them with media production, and wouldn't help us get jobs, me and my partner. Finally somebody from church called me and told me I didn't have the right to charge them money for transcribing tapes and that sent me over the edge. I blame Christianity, the preachers telling us all how we are worthless pieces of shit and sinful, and the attitude of the so called Christians for sending me over the edge. I attempted to slash my wrists. I checked myself into the county mental hospital.

The county mental hospital was a joke. All they did was give me Wellbutrin which did nothing but give me a dry mouth. There was one hour of crafts therapy a WEEK and NO group therapy. It was a warehouse for people who were seriously schizophrenic. They had nothing to offer someone who was seriously depressed from being unemployed and having parents chewing me out for being a failure. The doctors would nod their heads like they knew some secret that I didn't know. They were threatened by an educated patient who would ask them pointed questions. They threw me out after two weeks.

I threatened my parents that I would do away with myself if they didn't help me pay the bills, which they could well afford to do, because I didn't know what else to resort to. They had grown up in the Depression and weren't going to help me out. My mom was affluent in the depression; my dad was poor.

I had two dogs that were dying of septicemia (massive infection -- blood poisoning) from flea bites in the hot summer, and I called my parents and asked them to help us treat them. I remember crying furiously on the phone and thinking to myself, "If these dogs die because I couldn't treat them, I'll never forgive myself." So I did a little diagnosing myself and gave them my own antibiotics and prednisone and they got well.


When i was younger and my parents weren't grumpy and senile, they were good to me. Later they thought everything I did was wrong; mainly being unemployed. I had to pay child support to my ex hubby and I had trouble scraping up the money and was afraid I would go to jail. My ex had a steady job with a rising paycheck, ever since 1981 at the same place. He didn't even graduate from college.

Fortunately, eventually the parents died and I got some money to live on. I still haven't had a job, even a temporary job, and I stopped looking a while back. Gonna sell my house and move to the country. Driving a 13 year old car. No health insurance and no prospects. My SO has three degrees also, two of them in physics (B.S./M.S.), one in Video Production, and he can't find a decent job either. That's why we decided to retire.

And I'm still bitter about my parents.

[Catherine Vincent]

135. So sorry you had all those problems and that your parents were the way they were.

Try not to be bitter about your parents. They are gone and it would be a waste of time.

:hug:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

136. My being poor, part II. When I was a kid.

My dad was an attorney but had redneck clients with no money, so we didn't have a lot of money. He worked two jobs for fifteen years. Pipefitter doing rotating shift work and attorney.


Some of this is being poor; some of it is parents with strange money priorities who play psychological games with each other. Some of it is emotional abuse and no boundaries.

Being poor is when your house only has two window units. you have no A/C in your bedroom, and you cannot sleep because the low is 78 or 80 at night, and the humidity is horrible. So you stay up all night reading Michener novels. This happens for about four months a year where it's too hot to sleep at night.

Being poor is when your house doesn't have enough A/C, so that your mom bitches constantly about how your father "doesn't work hard enough" when he's busting ass, and she turns bright red, sweats like a cotton chopper, and cusses because she's hot too.

Being poor is not having access to a neighborhood pool to cool off in the summer because your suburban 'hood isn't nice enough to have one, and your city doesn't have any public pools. Even if you went to one, your mother wouldn't let you go because you might catch germs from strange people.

Being poor is trying to get to sleep at night, and you are scared to death because you can hear the rats stampeding across the ceiling in the attic, and your parents won't do anything to get rid of the rats.

Being poor is opening the cereal and seeing small roaches in it, and your dad says "Go ahead and eat it, it's extra protein" while you are thinking, "Wait a minute. My folks are educated. Why do we have to live like this?".

Being poor is having to throw a hissy fit to get your first brand new store bought dress in the 11th grade, while your mother has been going to the best stores in town (Sakowitz, Battelstein's, Frost Brothers, Neiman's) and buying a new hat or a new purse or piece goods and Vogue patterns, just to get back at your dad, because she's passive-aggressive and mad at him. And she sneaks it into the house and begs you not to tell your dad. Then if you borrow her nice purse and actually take it on a social outing and use it, she is horrified, because she would wrap it up in plastic and never use it because she's a hoarder.

Being poor is never having a birthday party or a picnic because the house is too messy to have people over, and she's the one making the clutter. You can't have any friends sleep over at your house, because you don't have an extra bed for them, because your mom's clutter fills up an entire bedroom.

Being poor is having a mom who thinks that all hand downs are good if they have a Neiman-Marcus label in them, even though you get picked on at school for wearing them.

Being poor is having a mom who thinks that if you get any clothes or haircuts that go along with what the other kids are wearing, that that is just horrendous. Fitting in is not important; being molded in her image is more important. She only has two images for you:Shirley Temple or Joan Crawford.

Being poor is thinking about what rich people have: Two bathrooms, central Air conditioning, hardwood floors that don't have the varnish rubbed off of them, real rugs, not just a bathmat, a laundry room instead of having the washer and dryer in the garage.

Being poor is never taking vacations, even though you nag your parents to go some place,and you're sick of mom being a prison warden. You're sick of looking at your parents and you feel imprisoned.

Being poor is when your mom insists that going to grandma and grandpa's house is a vacation, although your bossy, overbearing grandmother criticizes everything you do and you have major arguments at the dinner table over not eating grandma's bad southern cooking. She takes this as a personal insult. Then grandma and grandpa turn around and tell you how smart you are, and how they just know that someday you'll be a doctor.

Being poor is when your rich grandparents, who poormouth constantly, are horrified because you told them you couldn't get a job straight out of college and you ask them for money. Your grandmom writes you back and says that she has had heart palpitations because you asked them for help.

Being poor is when your rich grandparents give your male cousin (whose father is NOT your blood uncle, but you don't know that yet) $30K to buy a house and a swimming pool. You find out about it and have a screaming hissy fit, declaring that obviously, one grandson is worth more than six granddaughters. They are horrified at your behavior exposing their sexism.
Later, I'm the only grandkid who went to graduate school or got a bachelor's degree in anything difficult. The aforementioned male cousin dropped out of college.

Being poor is when your parents won't give you an allowance, even though they could spare a dollar or two a week. You quote famous psychologists in the newspaper, but it doesn't do any good. Then the parents gripe because "you can't handle money and spend it all" after you get a job.

Being poor is when the other kids think you're rich because your daddy is a lawyer and they see mom drop you off at school in a two year old Cadillac, but they don't know how deprived you really are.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

148. satire?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

156. Nope.

And mom always liked the dog best.
The Smothers Brothers always fought about "Mom always liked you best".

Well, I couldn't win. Mom always liked the Dog best. She would say "Do you want to see a picture of my beautiful, smart and OBEDIENT daughter?" and whip out a picture of the dog.

No shit.

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

143. Thank you.

I try not to be a lunatic. I try to be rational and cope as best I can. Nobody ever taught me to stand up for myself, and when I did stand up for myself, somebody would always yell at me or get on my case in some way.

Mostly it's been dealing with a crazy mother, crazy and mean bosses, hypercritical boyfriends, and other assorted people dissing me throughout life just for existing.

[PatSeg]

144. Poor is more than a physical state

Your mother taught you well from an early age that you were not worthy and did not deserve more. My mother taught me similar lessons and it takes a conscious day-to-day effort to survive which can be exhausting. While others around you are thriving, you are fighting for the right to "exist". It is hard to make beneficial choices when your own self-worth is so low. This is an emotional "poverty" that translates into physical poverty.

There are no easy answers. Unlearning what you were taught as a child is extremely difficult and the professionals' answer is usually in the form of medication that generally only makes things worse (if you can afford it).

You certainly are NOT a lunatic and the fact that you can acknowledge the source of your situation, means you are "rational". You may never completely escape your mother's influence, but every day that you prove to yourself that she was wrong in even the smallest way, is a step in the right direction. There may be no quantum leap forward, but over time those small steps will move you to a better place. Talking about it openly here is one of those steps. Meanwhile, the other steps you can take is to build up others who also have low self-esteem. It is a gift that will come back to you hundredfold .

You are a valuable human being. You do not have to justify your existence. None of us do (except maybe GWB).

[Occulus]

153. Your mom sounds like my mom n/t

[PatSeg]

154. I've found that there were lots of moms like ours

Of all the disadvantages we're born with, nothing tops a piss-poor mom! The effects last a lifetime.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

155. Thanks for that pep talk.

Mom also was strung out on heavy tranks like a Stepford Wife.
That's what doctors did to suburban frustrated housewives. Gave 'em heavy tranks to keep 'em quiet. She decided to sleep her life away.

I'm not talking Valium. I'm talking stuff they don't make anymore, because it was heavy stuff and destroyed peoples' functioning ability. Like the stuff they said Chief Justice Rehnquist was on when he was having hallucinations.

I modeled myself after dad cuz he was the rational functioning adult in the household. That's why I went to law school. Mom would tell me I was just like my father, and to her that was an insult. To me it was being rational. Mom and Grandma would whine and worry about everything, and dad would shut them down with one rational statement and they would look at him with their mouths open, saying "Huh??" and absolutely gobsmacked.

[PatSeg]

158. Saying it helps keep me grounded

That and the fact that I raised my children totally opposite. At least I didn't perpetuate the legacy of judgment and negativity.

"Gobsmacked" - great word! Haven't heard that one in years. We need to bring it back.

[porkrind]

133. K & R. I've been there.

Wow, this stirred up some shameful memories. :(

[Catherine Vincent]

134. Made it in time for the recommend!

:kick:

[Norrin Radd]

137. k+r

How I understand poverty, well.

[Wednesdays]

138. Oh, waaa waaa waaa waaa waaa. Get a fucking job, losers.

:sarcasm:


(Actually, a HUGH kick and rec!)

[kdmorris]

145. Needs another kick

Too bad I can't recommend it again.

[Kingofalldems]

149. I will never forget the nasty look I got from the parent of a friend

I am convinced she hated me for being poor. I had made a mistake by getting insome trouble in class with her son. She obviously blamed me and soon after her son started ridiculing me for being poor. They had tolerated my presence until I made a mistake----then the knives came out and they had convinced their son I was nothing but trash.

[PatSeg]

152. It is fear

They're afraid poverty is contagious. On some level they know that "there but for fortune". That is why so many people avert their eyes from homeless people. Outwardly they may blame the victim for his circumstance, but a part of them knows it could happen to them. Then there is the fear that the disadvantaged and destitute will rise up and destroy them and their comfortable lives.

Add to all that "guilt", they have to justify all their advantages amid a sea of poverty and despair. They "worked hard" for everything they have and those who suffer lack the will and integrity to make their lives better.

Some people are fair and compassionate by nature, others have to learn it the hard way.

[KillCapitalism]

151. I can relate to this.

I spent about a year of my life living out of my car. It was all I had, but it worked out alright for the most part. Dealing with the weather extremes were the worst part...it was not easy to sleep in the heat or the cold.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

170. That does suck. Nice moniker.

[Desert Liberal]

163. Being poor in America means...

...calling every two hours to the child support payment line to find out if one of their dads made a payment today.

I have two boys, you see. 14 and 6. They're handsome, smart, funny, and the very lights of my existence. But they're growing so fast. I don't know where I'm going to get the money for school stuff.

It's the 10th of August today, and every month for the last several, I have been able to count on a bit for extra things, because one of their fathers was paying child support. Then, lo and behold, the other started paying as well! Imagine my wonder! I had only ever gotten child support of about $40 back in January '04, now I was getting child support! Every month! God, I was rich! I could actually pay a few of those waaaaaayyyyyy past due bills...

This month, though, school starts. I was really, actually, for the first time since I started receiving child support, depending on that money this month for school supplies, clothes, haircuts...all those things they need, just to get off to a good start. Now, it's the tenth, and nothing.

Being poor in America is calling the child support hotline one more time, and finding out that about $43 has been paid, just this afternoon. Being poor is falling over on the couch, tears of relief pouring out your eyes, because now maybe you can at least get them the very least they need to go to school this year.

It hit me. THIS is what it is to me to be poor in America. I can't even provide my children the basic things.

Not for long though. I graduate from college in May with an Associate Degree. Being poor means that it only took me four years to get a two year degree. Being poor means that I wasn't there for my youngest when he would get out of school, then out of after-school care in kindergarten. Being poor means that I only got to lightly brush the hair back from my sleeping children's brows long after they were asleep, and whisper that I love them.

Being poor is being so damned happy with just an extra $40 this month.

[Sapphocrat]

164. And it means this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1562117

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

165. That one woman who says it's like being a 2nd class citizen?

That's on a good day. generally, it's more like being a leper or The Village Idiot, except The Village Idiot is generally regarded with more affection and tolerance.

And yes, I DO know what I am talking about. Intimately.