My message to fiscally conservative Democrats.

[liberaldemocrat7]

I strongly disagree with fiscal conservatism. Those people want to take America back to the days before Herbert Hoover. You belong either in the Republican party or in the Libertarian party.

If I want a pizza let the private sector make pizza.

If I want to insure people against unemployment financial problems, define a livable wage, insure health care by single payer and make it for everyone, make sure products appear safe, make sure working conditions appear safe, take care of the poor, the disabled, the retired, the elderly I want the government to do it.

I don't consider corporations evil.

I consider corporations in some ways like automobiles. You need to regulate drving automobiles and you need to regulate running corporations.

In my view most Republicans and conservatives do not operate corporations ethically, nor morally, and some of those operate illegally.

I don't want an America where you have Bushism where people die in the Sago mines because Bush and Republicans do not enforce mine safety before the disaster occurs.

I don't want an America where people die from Prescription drugs because a Republican conservative FDA looks the other way and doesn't regulate prescription drugs and we get thousands of dead people from Celebrex and Vioxx , etc.


I don't want an America where people die in the Ford Explorers with Firestone tires because a conservative Republican congress does not want to regulate companies for auto safety.

I don't want an America which drug companies can price drugs such that pharmacies charge $150 a month but for the very drug that pharmacies charge $150 a month, an Australian pharmacy charges $20 a month for that drug and greedy US drug company executives pocket an extra $130 a month in profit.

I don't want an America where middle class people die because they cannot afford prescription drugs.

I don't want an America where people lose their homes because they got very ill and the medical bills continue but cost such that these people cannot afford to live in their home that they paid for any longer.

Telling the people to trust corporations, might look like telling people to trust burglars, robbers and murderers that police should not get tough with them but rather negotiate with them in order to lessen their criminal activity.

How many times have I heard or read about conservatives who want government to cooperate with corporations in order to recall a deadly product or to clean up a deadly environmental spill, or to stop greed instead of regulating and prosecuting them toughly?


Who appears the ones soft on crime? The Republican conservatives and the libertarians who make every excuse for not getting tough with corporate executives and other management.


If you trust such executives, so much perhaps you should move to the Republican party or the libertarian party.


Sure you night act liberal on social issues, but you only have one arm, while liberals have two good arms so we can make sure corporate executives do not get out of line.

I believe in capitalism, but not the Republican conservative version of capitalism.








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Hello

Get your Republican party to end the war in Iraq, with Bush and Cheney resigning, and until you do we stop buying televisions, refrigerators, stoves, ovens, dishwashers, dvd players, stereo equipment, light bulbs from one of your party's major contributors and War contractors General Electric Corporation ( 203 373 2211 ) who cannot afford to lose a large sector of the publics business and money.

Get your Republican party to remove the FICA taxable income cap and tax all of a person's income for social security purposes and enact HR 676 Single payer universal health care into law and repeal Medicare Part D and place the prescription drug benefit in Medicare Part B covering 80 percent of all medication with no extra premiums, no extra deductibles, no means tests, no coverage gaps, and completely remove the means test to Medicare Part B and until you do, we will not buy consumer products and prescription drugs from the biggest pharmacy chains and GOP contributors in the country Eckerd, CVS, Rite Aid and Walgreens and we will not buy health insurance from Blue Cross Blue Shield and Aetna, the 2 biggest health insurance companies that give money to the GOP as well, who cannot afford to lose a large sector of the publics business and money.

Get your Republican party to enact a $10 an hour minimum wage, and until you do, we will not go to the following restaurants and GOP contributors Wendy's, Outback Steakhouse, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, and Dominos Pizza who cannot afford to lose a large sector of the publics business and money.

Get your Republican party to enact into law Universal vote by mail with paper ballots counted by civil servants with civil servants registering voters and keeping track of registrations, and until you do, we will not buy any GOP contributor Dell computers or monitors or go to the following restaurants and GOP contributors Wendy's, Outback Steakhouse, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, and Dominos Pizza who cannot afford to lose a large sector of the publics business and money.

Get your Republican party to get congress to pass and enact a law legalizing abortions from conception to six months, and to nine months when the life of the mother appears threatened, and until you do we stop doing business with two of your biggest contributors Dominos Pizza and Curves for Women Health Clubs.

Signed,

[rucky]

1. You're getting fisically conservative and free-market fundie confused.

and it reality, having the government do all those things you say they should do can very easily be fisically conservative. Privatiziation is a wasteful government welfare scam. The US Government can do it better! Look as the US Postal Service!


When I say fisically conservative, I mean cut the defense budget by 50%, get for-profit corporations the hell out of our schools, stop legislating bridges to nowhere, ACCOUNT for the 2-trillion missing dollars, Congress needs to stop raising their pay and benefits until prevaling wages and benefits improve for everyone.

[SteppingRazor]

3. What you said.

:thumbsup:


There's nothing wrong with being fiscally conservative. There's nothing wrong with wanting to get out of debt. Hell, it's Republicans that got us in that mess. Reagan was fond of wheezing about "tax and spend liberals," but at least the liberals had it in the proper order -- tax, then spend. Not don't tax, but keep spending more and more and more, bankrupting the government and forcing future generations (read: my generation) to deal with it when they finally grab hold of the reins in this country.

You can take care of this country's people and still have a balanced budget. It's all about how you allocate resources, not how much of them you use.

[LSK]

13. yes, he is

When I say fiscal conservative, I say raise taxes on the top bracket back to 50s levels, raise corporate income taxes and cut defense spending drastically.

I think balanced budgets are a good thing, but I do not fear taxes to get there.

One European country announced they will have no debt by the end of the year and they have universal healthcare. They can be considered fiscally conservative, wouldn't you say?

[Exiled in America]

2. "I don't consider corporations evil." - that, is why you fail.

What I think you might have meant was, you don't consider all business evil, or business persons evil.

Corporations are not the only kind of business structure. But the concept of limited liability is at the root of everything that is wrong today. Corporate person hood and legal status under the law is part of what's wrong with the world. Corporate money equaling speech is part of what's wrong today.

Perhaps evil is the wrong word. But just like the case made in the absolutely excellent docuemntary and book, "The Corporation," since corporations are considered persons under the law, we should look at what kind of "persons" corporations are. And the reality is, they fit the definition of a Psycopath.

[SteppingRazor]

4. But in that case, it's not the corporations that are the problem...

it's the SCOTUS decision that gave them personhood.

[Exiled in America]

20. Corporations - as they have been defined for more than a century - are the problem.

And the concept of limited liability is still a problem.

Before that decision, corporations weren't business entities like you have today.

They came together for a limited amount of time for a very fixed purpose with very clear parameters.

By any modern definition of "corporation" corporations are the problem.

[SteppingRazor]

25. Absolutely.

Before Santa Clara/So. Pac, corporations were things like the Erie Canal Company and whatnot.

But that said, the idea of corporate personhood has been slowly but surely chipped away at for years now. It's very basis in the aforementioned SCOTUS case has been recently called profoundly into question (see Thom Hartmann's excellent and highly recommended Unequal Protection), and the definition of the corporation is actually changing even as we sit and type away here. Unfortunately, it's doubtful that it will actually have any affect on the largest corporate entities -- they're already bigger and more powerful than any nation-state, in many ways. Perhaps not militarily or in any other mean sense, but certainly they occupy a sort of global position that runs totally counter to the very definition of a nation.

[Exiled in America]

26. Yes. I agree. And I need to read Hartmann.

[Marrah_G]

5. I consider myself a fiscally conservative Democrat

Apparently your version of the word and mine are very different.

I believe in social programs and I believe we have more then enough money to fund them. I believe the government spends money in a VERY, VERY wasteful manner and no company could survive if they spent the way the Gov does.

We are spending Billions that we do not have on Iraq with zero accountability for that money. Fema and Katrina, more fraud and waste. There are so many examples of where we can make changes to be more responsible and yes conservative with our tax dollars and still fully fund our social programs and indeed add more.

[AngryOldDem]

8. Bravo. Excellent post. n/t

[Bake]

6. Fiscal conservatism just means living within your means.

In other words, don't spend more than you make, i.e., deficits are bad.

Bake

[IndianaJones]

7. that stuff isn't fiscal conservatism. nt.

[OlderButWiser]

9. Well written

and well thought out. Just as an FYI though: Vioxx was approved in 1999 under Clinton's term.

[Zavulon]

10. "You belong either in the Republican party or in the Libertarian party."

Why, because I think the government - ESPECIALLY the current one - is a lousy steward of tax dollars?

Yes, I'm a fiscal conservative. Having a government this big is a danger unless you can guarantee that no Republican will ever again be president, Speaker of the House, House Majority Leader or Senate Majority Leader. Can you? Besides, if I ever went back to the Repugs (I was a Republican until 1992), they'd kick me out because of my views on the war, abortion and a whole host of other subjects.

Bush has pissed away lots of money for no good reason, and not just on the war. The Repugs who bitched about Clinton's spending before 2001 would probably love to return to those levels. I know I would.

By the way, I am also pro-gun and do not support illegal aliens in any way. And I'm still a Democrat, whether you like it or not. I'll be voting straight-ticket Democrat - would you rather have me vote Libertarian?

No offense, but these "if you don't agree with us on EVERY SINGLE ISSUE, you should leave the party" posts drive me nuts.

[stimbox]

11. not just middle class people die...

I don't want an America where people die because they cannot afford prescription drugs.

[DaveinMD]

12. maybe being a fiscal conservative

means not wanting to pass a huge debt my children and grandchildren and paying for things now. Bush and the Republicans are not fiscal conservatives.

[TwilightGardener]

14. The last thing Democrats need is to have the "tax-and-spend" charge reinforced--

I am fiscally conservative, and a Democrat. There is no reason why the Democratic party SHOULDN'T be the party of fiscal conservatism, if we set wise and proper budget priorities (for social programs, infrastructure, defense, everything) and eliminate waste. Repubs have failed at this, badly--let's pick up the torch, Dems!

[LSK]

15. sorry, but this country absolutely needs to raise taxes on

The top bracket and on Corporations. Thats where the money is and we are rapidly going into massive debt to China.

[TwilightGardener]

19. I am not knee-jerk anti-tax, but tax increases are not the only way to pay for the

things we need to pay for--everyone recognizes that there is tremendous waste going on. Either way, what we need to do is be the party that recognizes where to save and where to invest, wherever the money comes from. I think Dems should start picking up the "wise budgeting and investing" mantle.

[LSK]

21. we are long past the point where we can fix things without taxes

We have way too much debt.

Americans need to learn that taxes are not evil if they pay for services like healthcare.

The right wing has been brainwashing American blindly against any taxes for over 25 years.

[Exiled in America]

22. 61% of US-based corporations pay ZERO in taxes.

The remaining corporations pay around 10% in taxes after all exemptions and deductions.

The wealthiest Americans don't pay 35+%% like people thing. They too, pay around 9-10% after tax breaks. The richest sector of America pays one of American's lowest tax burdens.

I'm not listening to BULL-FUCKING-SHIT like "wise budgeting and investing" until this gets addressed.

[TwilightGardener]

23. I wasn't really addressing corporate taxes, because the average voter is

most likely concerned with property/income/sales taxes, things that affect the personal pocketbook--I agree that we're being fucked by the highest income levels and by business/corporations--that's why I'm not a Republican. But even if we can squeeze more of a fair share out of them, that doesn't mean Dems shouldn't be considered fiscally conservative (or responsible, whichever term fits). I would like Dems to start touting that they are the party to spend our tax dollars more wisely--that's all.

[LSK]

16. Howard Dean was a fiscal conservative in Vermont

And a social liberal.

[Nite Owl]

17. I hate using the word

conservative relating to anything, it gives the whole movement an aire of respectibility it doesn't deserve. Fiscally responsible is what should be used. One cannot live above their means, things need to be paid for, that I agree with.

Removing the cap on Social Security could not only save the program long term but could possibly make feasible to lower the amount that is taken out of paychecks for those currently bearing the burden. That would be a middle class tax cut!

[LSK]

18. it is an outrage that any income over $90k is not FICA taxed

:grr:

[rucky]

24. There's a local healthcare initiave in Ohio that wants to...

remove the cap on FICA, and roll back the Bush tax cuts, but the State takes it. If their numbers are right, it would pay for healthcare for every Ohian.

www.spanohio.org

[John Kerry VonErich]

27. And you're saying this with a JFK avatar???

He supported tax cuts.