In Need of DU Support/Advice

[GoldenOldie]

My first-born grandson/grandchild, now 20-years old and one who the entire family; parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and close family friends, held such high expectations for has within the past 2-weeks, quit college along with his part time job, wed his 23-yr college girlfriend and ENLISTED IN THE US ARMY.

We are all so devastated and have just discovered that the recruiters got to him, along with one of his co-workers, who claims to have been an Army Ranger and speaks of all the great training he received (yet withal this great training, he is now working in a call-center). I am not sure what line of bullshit they sold him but, it apparently fed into his naiveness on loyalty, honor, young brothers looking up to him, etc., and he has bought into it.

We have been unable to dissuade him even though the entire family has been closely involved with the military, from WWII, Korea, Vietnam both serving within the military and working and living alongside at military bases. I have told him of my high regard for military officers and enlisted that I have worked and played with and that the military was an honorable profession YET, this administration and this Commander-in-Chief has totally abused and misused our military forces to serve their own greed and lust for power. That this President/Commander-in-Chief not only failed to uphold his Oath taken with the TANG but also his Oath taken as POTUS to "Support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

The reasons given for the quickie marriage is to protect her from an overbearing mother, sexually abusive stepfather and it will allow her to finish college without depending on anything from them.....He has been playing the martyr, using the excuses that he doesn't want his parents to pay for his college or his living expenses, yet he has asked his parents to look after his brand new wife and even move her in with them if things become to difficult for her......which of course he knew that is exactly what they would do. His mother is a trauma nurse who spent part of her training within the Veterans hospital and as a young child remembers her grandfather returning from Vietnam. She is totally heartbroken, not so much about his entering the military because that is what he has always wanted, but because he is not even entering the service which he always talked about, the Navy.

Now for some of your good advice? He returned from Phoenix Tuesday and stopped into visit us and told us all about his physical, papers signed, etc. All was regular enlistment procedures until his favorite Aunt (a drama teacher, on summer break) asked about taking an Oath and he responded that "I took an Oath to support,defend and obey the orders of The Commander-in-Chief." Upon hearing these words come from the mouth of what we believed to be our intelligent boy, completely shocked us all. His Aunt immediately responded, that he did know, that the Oath was to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies both foreign and domestic and not one man?
What is the actual wording of the enlistment Oath?

His Aunt told him, if he decided he didn't like it, he could always tell them he was gay. He said, that they gave him a list which consisted of things said or done regarding gay issues which could be used to discharge. His Aunt which adores him and also heartbroken on his naive choices, informed him that she knows plenty of gay actors throughout the country, who would willingly take on the roll of his estranged lover and suddenly appear at his commanders office, demanding to see you. What is funny, is, he knows his Aunt and he knows full-well this is something she would do.

I am more of an on-looker rather than a poster and you have all played a part in my education and keeping this old brain working. Any advice you may have will be greatly appreciated. My entire family know that I am addicted to DU. It is the first thing I do in the am and the last thing I do in the pm, therefore they have all asked me to submit this and see what advice or opinions come forth.

[NMDemDist2]

1. pray for him

I'll join you

:hug:

[mdmc]

2. I'll say a prayer for him

perhaps you can do the same? Peace and low stress...

[Buzz Clik]

3. The oath:

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

The kid's got to find his own way. As pointed out in the OP, the military has been a good way to go for millions of soldiers.

The family needs to step back and honor his decision.

[GoldenOldie]

13. #3 - The Oath

Thanks Buzz Clik....that is what I was looking for.

"I, ............, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice."

We all know, that this Administration tends to make-up their own regulations and Military Justice to cover their dirty deeds.

I agree that in the past, our military offered our young men and women an honorable and rewarding way to learn discipline, learn a profession, and earn an education. It also opened doors for many young men and women to leave gang and crime riddled neighborhoods.

I wonder, why no one questions the POTUS, the VEEP, or any of our politico's who use the daily fear comment "this is a global war on terrorism," or "terrorism is the greatest threat that the world has ever known," if this is true, why they have not called for a DRAFT. Why they have not asked for sacrifices from WE THE PEOPLE? They have misused and abused our National Guard units leaving our Nation defenseless against outside attack. We have a Homeland Security Agency, with an unlimited budget,that cannot even define who and what they are securing.

[The Doctor.]

24. Absolutely.

It doesn't hurt to remind the young man that the oath is to the Constitution, not the President, however.

[Buzz Clik]

26. Support and defend the Constitution; follow orders from those in authority.

It's pretty clear and incredibly logical.

Funny how he got it muddled.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. I'll pray for him--and us

Are you sure they changed the oath? If so, this is quite serious.

[rubberducky]

5. My heart goes out to you.

What is his name?? I will keep him in my prayers. Please keep us up to date.

[Cameron27]

6. The only thing I can think of is for his mom to tell

him that the family will help and support his wife, only if he backs out of this military committment. That's pretty harsh, but it's the only thing I can come up with.

Good luck and peace, I hope someone else has better answers.

[notadmblnd]

7. I imagine the siging bonus is hard to resist for a young couple starting out

I understand it can be up to $50,000.00 now.

[orleans]

9. (let's see...when i'm dead, how will i spend my $50,000?) n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

14. No kidding! My son has a friend who told him he can't afford to go to college, so he's going to

enlist so he can have his college paid for.:cry::cry: I told my son to tell him he can always get student loans and grants, but there is NO GUARANTEE he will survive Iraq so he can actually take the military up on that college tuition offer.:cry:

I ADORE this kid. He's only 16 years old and already planning on going into the military. It-breaks-my-heart and PISSES ME OFF that he feels that's his only option. He WANTS to go to college, but his family can't afford to send him. The MILITARY is his ONLY option?:grr:

[orleans]

28. depending on their income, he should be able to get a grant or scholarship

along with the loans

tell your kid to keep talking to him.
ever see the documentary WHY WE FIGHT by eugene jarecki?

show them that.

[orleans]

8. break his leg. show him the documentary WHY WE FIGHT by eugene jarecki

make him see what bullshit this all is

ask him why he would want to be a party to that?

why does he want to help militarize this country?

and put that aunt with with the estranged lover idea in motion.

tell him if he wants to help this country so badly he should stay the fuck in college and run for political office. and get these liars and cheaters out of office.

tell him to get a part time job (along with his new bride) while they go to school part time--community colleges are cheaper than four year--they need to get as many credits as possible at the community college and then transfer them to a four year (they'll save thousands)

and he'll be of no help to his new bride when he's dead. by getting married he has made his own family now. he needs to be a man and stick around and protect his family. not run off to play war.

[The Doctor.]

25. He's helping her NOW. That's HIS decision.

Can't hurt to give him good information.

[librechik]

10. he is on his own now, An Army of One.

pray for him, give him a phone card, and hope for the best.

[shireen]

11. This is how the army preys on vulnerable young people ...

THose recruiters are hideous; I suppose having a conscience is not part of the job requirement.

Did he sign up for the Delayed Entry Program? THere's information on how to get out of it at http://www.projectyano.org/pdf/Recruiters_DEP_2004.pdf

BTW, I don't have anything against the men and women in the military, or people who want to sign up for military duty. I have nothing but deep respect for them. But as a citizen, I also feel protective of them. As long as we have a murderous thug in the White House, and a defense department that works hard to keep the military industrial complex well-fed, I will discourage anyone from joining the military until our elected officials pledge to take better care of these noble men and women who are willing to sacrifice their lives for us.

[in_cog_ni_to]

12. Here's the army oath:

Here is the United States Army oath . . .

I (insert name), having been appointed a (insert rank) in the U.S. Army under the conditions indicated in this document, do accept such appointment and do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter, so help me God.

http://www.uoregon.edu/~klio/re/armyoath.htm

I don't see any oath to obey the orders of the psycho. Unless the psycho has a signing statement that changed it. I wouldn't doubt it.:(

[GoldenOldie]

15. Services Oath

Does each Service have their own Oath?

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. I don't know. I'll go find out for you. n/t

[GoldenOldie]

20. College Funds

That is not the case for my grandson. His mother and father could afford to pay his college yet he chose not to accept their offer.
His mother and her sister (his favorite aunt), have both attended military funerals. The Aunt and High school Drama teacher, attended the military funeral of one of her favorite students who had always talked of becoming a marine. As a marine, he maintained e-mail contact with her and he was killed in Falluja(sp) with his first child being born 2-weeks after his burial. He was 22-yrs old. My grandson's mother attended the military funeral of a friends daughter. She and her friend had worked together 19-years prior and both became pregnant at the same time. Her friend had been a Marine and received a medical discharge. She bore a daughter who grew up wanting to join the Marines and she did so right after high school graduation. She was killed in Iraq at the age of 18. She would have been the same age as my grandson.

It would be cheaper to fund college for these kids than it is to pay for their military medical disabilities.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. Yes. They all say the same oath. Except, The Army National Guard and Air Guard take a different oath

In the Armed Forces EXCEPT the National Guard (Army or Air)

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
So help me God.

In the National Guard (Army or Air)

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of (STATE NAME) against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of (STATE NAME) and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.

Guide Note: There has been some controversy about whether the phrase "So help me God" is mandatory. I have seen officers allow enlistees to omit these words, if they choose, according to their religious preference and beliefs. However, federal law does not appear to make any part of the oath optional. See 10 United States Code, Section 502.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/oathofenlist.htm

Did he join the Army National Guard?

[JuniperLea]

19. "against all enemies, foreign and domestic"

Seems to me BushCo is the biggest domestic enemy of the US Constitution!

[porphyrian]

16. You probably don't want my advice, but hang in there and good luck. - n/t

[question everything]

18. He still has to go thru basic training, right?

Perhaps this will be the time for him to realize what military service is all about. And perhaps after the original shock, for both sides, there will be an opportunity to talk quietly and reasonably with him, with no accusations, just expression of "wanting to understand."

And perhaps his new wife will have an opinion. Is she ready to have her new husband going to Iraq?

[GoldenOldie]

22. His new wife is very sweet but so naive

We have tried to give them information, but he is at that age, that although he loves us, we are really behind the times. Although his Mother grew up beside a Military base and she often came to our military workplaces and to office or family/military picnics/parties and personally knew military officers and enlisted. She also remembered her grandfather at the age of 60 going to VietNam as a civilian field consultant for operation and repair of tanks and big guns and talking about a Vietcong attack. His response to her, was "how long has it been since you have been on a military installation?"

His new wife, hasn't a clue. She is a few years older than he and has had some bad family experiences, but it seems like she has latched onto him because he is the one that defends her against her family. We wonder how she will handle it when she finally realizes that he won't be coming home at the end of the day and she won't be able to call him 24/7? She is in for a big shock! Coming from a family of all boys, he knows his Mom and Dad will take care of her.

[The Doctor.]

23. It would seem he did this for reasons beyond himself. He's a man.

He can do what he feels is right.

I was about to advise you to urge him to adhere to his oath to the Constitution when I read this;

" All was regular enlistment procedures until his favorite Aunt (a drama teacher, on summer break) asked about taking an Oath and he responded that "I took an Oath to support,defend and obey the orders of The Commander-in-Chief." Upon hearing these words come from the mouth of what we believed to be our intelligent boy, completely shocked us all. His Aunt immediately responded, that he did know, that the Oath was to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies both foreign and domestic and not one man?
What is the actual wording of the enlistment Oath?"


That is very disturbing.

[GoldenOldie]

27. A big Thanks to one and all

The family will support our trooper as we have always supported and honored all the men and women who are and have served our country.

From the onset, we the grandparents walked the anti-war protest marches, and have spoken out to those that were/are pro-war and considered us to be silly old fools. We marched beside young lawyers, young moms and dads, old hippies, Code Pink, The Grannies against the war, and yes silly old fools like us. I maynot feel Cindy Sheehan's pain, but I understand it. Cindy has taken her anger, grief and pain and used it to awaken the peoples and force them to face what we have allowed the BFEE to do to our Nation and to our military. This grandpa and grandma will continue to march/protest within our city, only the next time, we will even have stronger heart for it because we will be sharing other military families worries and sorrows.

Thank you DU members.

[BlackVelvet04]

29. I think someone might sit him down and

discuss with him the importance of him having a will written up.......which he should. If that doesn't wake him up I don't know what will. Is there any way he can get out of this? Do they have a period of time they can change their minds?

[riderinthestorm]

30. Does he know that 2-3 penis amputations are being performed daily?

That doesn't include balls, just penis' from war wounds suffered in Iraq? I always think that would stop most enlistments - knowing how many young men are being emasculated daily....