Are They Testing The Waters For A Draft?

[Me.]

Are they testing the waters here, putting the idea out there to see if it floats? They say * is against it which means it could happen any minute now. Will Mitt’s boys have to go?


“WASHINGTON — Frequent tours for U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan have stressed the all-volunteer force and made it worth considering a return to a military draft, President Bush's new war adviser said Friday.

"I think it makes sense to certainly consider it," Army Lt. Gen. Douglas Lute said in an interview with National Public Radio's "All Things Considered."

"And I can tell you, this has always been an option on the table. But ultimately, this is a policy matter between meeting the demands for the nation's security by one means or another," Lute added in his first interview since he was confirmed by the Senate in June.

President Nixon abolished the draft in 1973. Restoring it, Lute said, would be a "major policy shift" and Bush has made it clear that he doesn't think it's necessary.”...cont.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070810/bush-war-adviser/

[MissB]

1. Nothing would bring Bush's poll numbers closer to zero.

[roguevalley]

64. agreed. armaggeddon without the rapture for this country.

[CountAllVotes]

2. that is why the amnesty for illegal aliens

it would have worked like a f'ng charm!

They missed out!

They could have had a whole fresh crop of blood to fight their war without end!

:nuke:

:kick:

[robertpaulsen]

3. Absolutely.

I believe that sometime before the Bush/Cheney nightmare ends in January 2009, they (US, Israel or both) will conduct airstrikes on Iran. What move Iran or Hezbollah takes in response will determine how they push the draft on the public. Frankly, this scares the hell out of me. Not because I will personally be drafted, but because that will bring the war home in a very ugly way. The American public will not stand for a draft, and the Bushitler response to our non-compliance will make Kent State look tame.

[Me.]

5. That's What I Was Wondering

Will this be what finally gets Americans into the streets? It was a big factor in the Vietnam protests. So far, with the exception of the money being drained from this country, this war has been at a remove from most people. A draft would bring it to their front door.

[pnwmom]

7. It won't matter if Americans get into the streets.

Not if the media refuse to publicize it. How many large demonstrations have we seen go uncovered by the media?

Yes, there were large demonstrations during the Vietnam era, and yes, the draft had a lot to do with it. But how many Americans died in that war? More than 50,000. It took more than a decade and 50,000 deaths to convince most of America that the war had to end.

[BeHereNow]

9. Many parents of draft aged youth remember Vietnam- publicized ot not, they will not accept it.

I don't think it will matter if people take to the streets or not-
I think the bottom line is they will NOT allow ther kids to be drafted.
What are they going to do? Lock everybody up?
BHN

[pnwmom]

12. I'm of that age and I don't know how I would prevent that,

other than financing a trip out of the country.

But you can bet that crossing the border will be a lot harder to do once a draft is in place.

[BeHereNow]

13. I know how I would prevent it-

Draft my kid? Over my dead body!
Watch the underground railroad be reinvented.
Kids will be hidden all over the country.
BHN

[H2O Man]

17. I agree.

My children are not going to be sacrificed for the Cheney's economic benefit.

[Justyce]

19. I have a 15-1/2 year old, and that's the way I feel... over my dead body.

[ClayZ]

37. Our oldest Grandson is 15 - 1/2, too.

They would have to get over both our dead bodies, and his parents, and his other grandparents. Kill 6 to draft one...I don't think so! We marched during VietNam and he has marched with us against the Iraq war. Kids are much wiser, younger now! He wanted to us to hear a song they like... "Dogs of War" by Pink Floyd... we laughed. (I guess there is a lot he does not know about us.)

[pnwmom]

50. And if you have more than one kid,

how many of your dead bodies do you have to donate to the cause?

If you're in jail, or dead, you won't be of much use to any of your kids.

[bleever]

29. That's where I am too.

100%.

I'm not one of those people who say "110%", because when I say 100%, I mean one fucking hundred per cent.

[MnFats]

48. my son turns 18 with a few months of Bush left....Bush DOES NOT get him...

greetings, frozen north...

[defendandprotect]

10. Concentrate on impeaching Gonzales, Public Funding of All Campaigns . . .

Paper & Pen ballots -- and movements -- not demonstrations -- that curb corporate-fascism.

[Subdivisions]

14. If they institute a draft, the masses will not need to see

media publicity in order to react. If it happens, they will be irrelavant.

[BeHereNow]

6. Agree with you and then some...

The American public will NOT accept a draft-
even if there is another "attack" as the result of
a strike on Iran and retaliation for it.

Thanks to the Internet, I think the American people are
gradually figuring the deception out.
Even the lurking trolls on DU...


BHN

[robertpaulsen]

65. And I agree with what you say about an underground railroad.

We are going to see resistance to the fascist regimes in ways we haven't even thought of yet. We've got a scary road ahead, but this is our lives and our liberty at stake.

[Drifter]

4. If a Republican is elected in 2008 ...

we better have a draft or our military will continue to be depleted. It will be time to force sacrifice on the masses.

I think that might be the only thing to get more people involved in bringing our troops home.

Cheers
Drifter

[pnwmom]

11. The draft will give the neocons an almost unlimited supply

of bodies for their insane schemes.

Yes, it will cause more people to protest, but so what? It took more than 50,000 deaths before the protests finally helped put an end to the Vietnam war. People are dreaming if they think that a draft will bring about a quick end to the Iraq debacle.

[welshTerrier2]

15. excellent

that's exactly right. yes, there would be more protests; no, we should not empower the corporate war machine to take control of America's children for their immoral objectives. we need to find better ways to awaken the resistance. putting the bodies of the young on the line is far too costly.

[Adsos Letter]

23. I am also your age (I think) in that I have a draft age young'un....

...and I think the difference this time (as opposed to Vietnam) is that we have that very experience within our memory, something the Vietnam generation did not.

Sadly, I do believe that, while many have protested and most mourn the loss of other people's kids as much as normal human empathy allows, it doesn't really register at the bone-chilling tipping point that comes with a "hey, that REALLY COULD be my kid" that comes with a draft. It isn't about intentional hardness of heart, its about human nature...

I will admit that the multiple deployments of our armed forces are totally irresponsible, and cruel, and wrongheaded, but so far they seem to be adding fuel to the call to end the war, not institute a draft (among the majority of the populous, anyway).

I don't believe the government has enough credibility with the majority of people to create a viable case for war with Iran and the necessary draft that would entail, or to convince the majority that a draft will allow us to "win" in Iraq. It doesn't mean they won't try; I think they are in the process of attempting it now. I just don't think the country would go for a draft...as long as the propaganda is only what is in play I think people are pretty much content to complain, question the evidence being presented (and the motives) and engage in the occasional protest. However, I believe an actual Draft would initiate a whole new level of reality and produce a tipping point among a majority of draft age people and their parents (who DO remember Vietnam, and have had 30+ years to de-construct the arguments surrounding it).

I can only hope this would be the case. If Iran were stupid enough to initiate a "9/11" style attack against US interests somewhere...well, in that case all bets are off...

War. Sucks. ...and yet it has been with us from the begining... :(

I would be interested to hear, and listen to, your response.

And with that, I bequeath to you my 2,000th post... :hi:

[TahitiNut]

31. A couple of thoughts (in addition to my post below) ...

1. When folks attempt to downplay the impact of the draft during the Viet Nam War, and portray the draft as insufficient popular motivation to stop the carnage, they fallaciously and imprudently ignore the major change to the draft system beginning with the first lottery drawing in December 1969 for all men subject to the draft in 1970. The draft became far more equitable - in lottery induction sequence instead of 'oldest fist,' with student deferments limited to the end of the current term, and with the elimination of a plethora of other deferments. The only escape left was National Guard - which, due to call-ups, isn't quite as attractive today. Let's remember that it wasn't just the wealthy who could shield their precious kids - since tuition was MUCH lower in those days and far more guys could manage to stay in college until they were 26 ... or take a job as a teacher.

I personally regard the Kent State shootings as being precipitated in some significant part by the changed draft laws. Remember, it took place in May 1970 ... merely a month before the term (and the deferment) was up. It was a tragic irony that deferred students confronted national Guard ... both over staying out of Viet Nam. Irony. On steroids.

The current draft doesn't afford the "upper 40%" the opportunity to shield their kids. I've always been a bit suspicious whether those who opposed such "fortunate son" deferments were opposed to the inequity ... or just wanted some of that privilege for themselves. Since then, I'm convinced it's the latter. After all, the 'privileged' includes the "upper 80%" now. I guess it's OK if it's only the kids who have nearly no other option to get a college education and health care.


2. I regard it as remarkable when I read folks talking about how much they'd do IF the draft were reactivated ... and see all kinds of actions promised. Talk about contradictions. If it wouldn't be an enormous motivation for activism and civil disobedience then how are so many saying it would? Even more puzzling is that such diatribes come as a counterpoint to "I'm doing everything I can to get Cheney/Bush out of the White House." What is it? Are we doing "all we can" or would we "do more"??? If we're not doing all we can ... why aren't we? Is it at least partly because we're comfy while other people's kids carry the burden of serving (and often dying) for this mess? Shame on us!

Shame on us!

[Adsos Letter]

34. I agree "shame on us"...

...and I think you are adding to what I was saying...it isn't intentional hardheartedness (for the most part); I think it has more to do with the natural limits of human empathy (on average). When it comes to an across-the-board draft we engage at a different level: Hey this could happen to MY KIDS...its sad, and it sucks, and it is shameful but I think it represents the majority of human nature.

We have become so accustomed to endless presentations of graphic human suffering through all forms of visual media that many have become somewhat "numbed" to it; for most people, I think, it remains a horror, but one we have come to expect. For most people it is happening "to others" and, unless we know those "others" our level of outrage remains lower than it should. Yes that is shameful, but I also think it is human nature. Look how quickly our veterans sufferings are forgotten by most, when they aren't kept on our radar screen.

I believe a general draft would place the seriousness of the issue at a level which would, finally, elicit some serious civil disobedience against government policies regarding, not just the Iraq war, but the whole neo-con theory of pre-emptive war.

Just my thoughts...I come here hoping to hear and consider the views of others.

:hi:

[pnwmom]

51. Not everyone in our generation remembers Vietnam the way we do.

There is a large group that still buys the Rethug line that if we had stayed in, we could have "won" the war.

[defendandprotect]

8. Yeah -- "What's the problem with leaving Bush in office another 1 1/2 years?" !!!!!!!

[TahitiNut]

16. Draft? Now? I have to wonder whether there's another objective.

It would be hard for me to imagine a less popular idea - it's even more of a "third rail" than Social Security privateering. (Even though I adamantly favor an equitable sharing of national service burdens, I'm certainly not foolish enough to believe our currently self-indulgent and divided nation would entertain the idea of a draft activation in this Mess o'Ptomaine .)

I've never believed that the corporatists (formerly known as the "Military Industrial Complex") wanted anything but a compliant, politically segregated, "volunteer," "professional" military supplemented by mercenary forces and richly accessorized by the 'best' toys that a profiteer can sell. For years, the furthest right-wing "professional" military have consistently and repeatedly sneered at draftees and demeaned their service - despite abundant evidence to the contrary. Draftees 'pollute' the military with such extremely radical ideas as reading the regulations (and holding their NCOs and officers to them), corresponding with their congressmen, encouraging lifers to go to college, and reveling in their civil liberties in their off-duty time. Draftees even volunteer at orphanages and social welfare organization in foreign countries, for God's sake! (It's hard to keep a good hate going when the troops 'fraternize' with them furriners.)

So, I take it as an article of fact that the right wing (proto-fascists) wants a malleable, authoritarian, nationalistic military. (Indoctrination only goes so far.)

So... why propose a 'discussion' about the draft? Perhaps to drive an even greater stake in the heart of democratic participation in our own self-governance?? (After all, most of the most staunch liberal politicians of the 50s and 60s were WW2 vets, and Viet Nam veterans discovered their activism was easy compared to serving there.) It sounds to me like this is another piñata which, when the bashing is done and the dust is cleared, will yield at least another decade or two of people far more willing to be taxed for the most expensive military in the world than to put their own asses on the line and participate in the dirty work of self-governance that assures us that we don't engage in military conflict except as a very last resort. ("I'd rather send my money than my son. Let someone else's kid do it.")

It could easily be right out of the "Please (Don't) Throw Me In The Brier Patch" - "Whitewash The Fence" Playbook. There are ways to take advantage of rampant opposition - opposition that's gotten habituated to rejecting another in a long line of notions ... and giving the other side a (convenient) "victory." (Immigration Bill anyone???)

IMHO, of course. YMMV. :shrug: (I advise folks to step back and think for themselves - carefully.)


:popcorn:

[Adsos Letter]

24. Hey TahitiNut...

...please see my post # 23 and tell me what you think...

:hi:

EDIT: forgot post number... :dunce:

[Beetwasher]

30. Except You're Thinking Rationally

Bushco. is NOT thinking rationally, they are thinking MAGICALLY and PSYCHOTICALLY. This is psychology at work more than any rational thinking. It is coming to the point when they are going to DEMAND MORE BLOOD SACRIFICE because THAT is what they FEEL will allow them to magically achieve whatever THRILL/RUSH/HIGH they get from their perverted, psychotic fantasies.Their greed is really just another layer of excuse for them to DO what they psychologically NEED to do as sociopaths.

[TahitiNut]

33. They're conniving, brazen, and corrupt ... NOT stupid.

[Beetwasher]

43. Have They Always Done The SMART Thing?

:shrug:

People's motivations more often than not are EMOTIONALLY based. The reasons and logic for the action(s) come afterwards to convince themselves that there is a valid reason for doing what they did. This group is a pack of super-powerful sociopaths run amok and I am arguing that they are purely emotionally driven (of course I could be wrong). Their actions fulfill NEEDS within themselves and unfortunately I think given their blood-lust and need to PUNISH those who oppose them, a draft WOULD fill that need. They are vastly unpopular now and they know it and in their warped imagination anyone who now disapproves of their actions is the enemy. That's most of the public. "Fuck w/ us, we'll kill your sons and daughters".

The need for human sacrifice to fulfill emotional need is as old as man. And this bunch is nothing but a pack of modern day neanderthals ruled by the same malignant emotions that drove primitives to throw virgins into volcanoes.

[TahitiNut]

46. The 'standard' is ... PROFIT. Have they successfully PROFITED?

Yes. To the question of "would you rather be liked or feared?" I've never known of an autocrat who didn't opt for 'fear.' They're experts in 'fear.' Q.E.D.

[Beetwasher]

61. The Profit Motive Is But One Layer

That masks a deeper motivator.

Listen, I hope you're right, a draft would be disastrous, but these maniacs aren't anything if not impulsive.

[bleever]

35. Serious food for thought.

For which I thank you.

[TahitiNut]

36. You're very welcome.

I very much appreciate it when someone reads and considers anything in which I place some effort to describe. It's not about agree/disagee as much as it's about developing a larger understanding, imho.

[Me.]

39. Interesting Questions

Without trying to be in the least way flip, I wonder if there are 2 quick answers to some of your questions.

First of all, we're all pretty well acquainted with the fact that he and his don't give a damn what we think, theirs is to command, ours to do or die. Add to that the stunning amount of arrogance we've suffered over the years, I could see them doing this. Especially if the plan is to continue the war mongering. And, we know that supplies of fresh young people who are willing to sign up for this war is rapidly diminishing.

As for the compliance of the American people, well it certainly has been on exhibit these last several years, but I wonder if that old maxim that you can only hit a dog so many times before he bites you, may come into play here.

[TahitiNut]

42. Let's think a bit deeper into this.

While it's almost unarguable that Cheney/Bush give the impression "that he and his don't give a damn what we think" I think it's worthwhile to consider why that might be. IMHO, it's at least largely because the 'issues' (and the framed 'solutions' addressing those issues) have been framed in ways to make it "damned if we do and damned if we don't" ... hedging in the very framing of the proposals. I saw NCLB perverted in this way. I saw the 'immigration law' perverted in this way. I even see the kabuki regarding Social Security being framed this way.

That's why I composed that post/journal entry the way I did ... we're getting dug in deeper.

[Me.]

45. You're Very Right About

"Damned if we do.....don't". At the very least it is a reason given for the some dem's capitulation. Didn't Louise Slaughter whine about being caught in a vise? She wasn't but she perceived herself to be. The very type perception the admin has orchestrated over the last 6-7 and been very successful with. But used over and over I wonder if it isn't losing its persuasive ability with the people (it hasn't with the Congress as we all know) but with a majority of the people in this country against the war a draft might be the final ploy that takes the blinders off. I don't know that I'm right about this as I am only exploring possibilities and letting hope speak for me.

[Strawman]

66. Yep

"It sounds to me like this is another piñata which, when the bashing is done and the dust is cleared, will yield at least another decade or two of people far more willing to be taxed for the most expensive military in the world than to put their own asses on the line and participate in the dirty work of self-governance that assures us that we don't engage in military conflict except as a very last resort. ("I'd rather send my money than my son. Let someone else's kid do it.")"

That sounds about right.

My other theory was that they needed bodies so badly to keep the war going (and start others) that they really would like to bring back the draft, and will scare the shit out of us somehow to get us to go along, but your theory makes more sense.

[MisterHowdy]

18. I don't think a draft will happen.

If a draft was imposed
people would be outraged
this could possibly cause people
to leave their homes in mass protest.

The right plays our complacency
they count on it to get away with all the shit that they have done.

No, this would rouse the people up too much.

IMO of course, what do i know.

[Akoto]

20. It would take certain conditions to activate the draft, all unlikely ...

Unless we're in a situation of dire consequence (ex. a foreign army invading our shores), the president does not have the power to activate the draft on his own. Congressional approval is required. So long as the Democrats control Congress, I highly doubt we would ever see such a motion approved. They've made a lot of mistakes lately, but they're not THAT inept. Attempts to date at passing draft bills have all been overwhelmingly defeated, and that was during Republican dominance. Even they aren't stupid enough to move for it, as they know very well it would be the end of their careers.

If the draft is activated, the country will spiral into chaos. This war is already barely tolerated, and is increasingly rejected by those who were once its staunch supporters. If there appeared to be a serious chance of a draft being used for the "war on terror," I'd bet good money that the war would end before such a bill made it to the president's desk.

The military generals don't want a draft. Google it, the quotes are copious. Trained troops who weren't rushed through the program have been unable to maintain order over there. Imagine the shit that would happen if you throw in a bunch of kids who didn't go willingly, and who are physically and/or mentally unfit for any sort of military service. Some people just plainly aren't cut out for it. I'm not a neurosurgeon because my mind isn't built for the task, intellectually or in terms of stress management. Same can be easily true of the military.

Lastly, I am someone of draft age. I have anxiety disorder and am just a smidge above legally blind (among other problems), so I doubt that I'd go. I have the advantage of knowing people who would, however. My friends, people I grew up with. They don't support the war. In fact, I'd say the young generation was among the first to catch on to the BS. How will a draft succeed if millions of candidates simply don't show up? Even with the detention camps we've all heard about, there's not enough room to hold 'em all.

A draft just won't work. The draftees won't support it, Congress would save its collective ass well before supporting it, and the public won't tolerate it when support for the war is already hanging by a thread.

[Me.]

25. Saying No Won't Be Enough

Action will be needed and I speak of political activism. People will have to organize. I wonder if we could organize enough so that enmasse we would ALL refuse to pay the taxes that support the military? Just one thought among many that could be suggested/implemented.

[sarcasmo]

21. They sure are, long live the KING.

Sarcasm is ON.

[Canuckistanian]

22. First thing I thought of

When I first saw it, I thought, hmmm, an offhand, low-key statement by the newly crowned War Czar about the draft. What's the deal here?

These guys don't do anything unless they float a trial balloon first. Then they wait and see how far the RW press fawns over them.

THEN they make their decision.

[Bitwit1234]

26. They won't be able to hold the protesters back then

That is what ended the Viet Nam War. People did not want to see their sons go to the Viet Nam War. And now....they would send their daughters also. Boy if they started the draft all hell would surely break loose. bush and cheney and every republican in this country would better hold him in an undisclosed location.

[Cha]

27. bushit is against it because

this War on Iraq would end quicker than the Dems can say "surrender".

[UTUSN]

28. There should ALWAYS be a draft. To equalize. To get anti-war protesters OUT there. n/t

[TahitiNut]

32. Stand closer. It's lonely enough in this choir.

:silly:

Obviously, I agree. :thumbsup:

[pnwmom]

52. It's a naive view to think that the protesters stopped the Vietnam war.

We stopped the draft after Vietnam because we realized that the draft had made it too easy to wage senseless wars.

Anti-war protesters in the Vietnam era didn't succeed until more than 50,000 of our troops had died. If we hadn't had a draft, we would NEVER have been able to continue with that war for more than a decade, and we would never have lost that many troops.

[TahitiNut]

57. With all due respect, that's superficial and simplistic nonsense.

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1562810&mesg_id=1563639

[followthemoney]

38. draftees "added no value, no advantage, really..."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/20/column.shields.opinion.rumsfeld/index.html


Speaking of the 11 million Americans who, during the Vietnam years, answered their country's draft call and the 2 million who served in Vietnam, Rumsfeld alleged that these draftees "added no value, no advantage, really, to the United States armed services over any sustained period of time, because the churning that took place, it took enormous amount of effort in terms of training, and then they were gone."

I'll say "then, they were gone!" Of the 58,152 Americans who gave their lives in Vietnam 20,352 of them were draftees. How dare the secretary of defense say these good and brave Americans "added no value, no advantage, to the United States armed services?"

Why would he slander the sacrifice of these brave men, dishonor their memory and rub salt in their families' wounds?

[TahitiNut]

54. Corporatists have always sneered at "unprofessional" (citizen) military.

Corporatists, like Rummy, want a goose-stepping Praetorian Guard ... a 'special' class of compliant, authoritarian, indoctrinated militarists. (That's why Corporatism was called the "Military-Industrial Complex.") All the sneering and condescension is nothing but lies and bullshit. Draftees have earned as many awards and honors for courage and performance as the "lifers" ... which is particularly noteworthy given the tendency to prefer such awards to "career" soldiers - since the draftee isn't going to have a "career interest" in such medals and ribbons.

This was NOT a mystery to the Founders. While most emphasize the "gun" aspects of the Second Amendment, the Founders knew that the Autocrats/Monarchists of Europe relied on a zealous Elite Corps of military to keep the people in line. Saddam had his Republican Guard. The elite of a "professional military" have historically been key to maintaining authority over a nation. That's why the Founders envisioned a "citizen militia" to be used to defend the country, limited any military funding to 2 years, and gave Congress the sole authority to declare war.

Until after WW2, the U.S. disarmed and reduced the size of our military to a mothball force ... just enough to maintain the skeleton for training and build-up when necessary. The hue and cry went up after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor that this was a "bad idea." Bullshit. The fact that the U.S. was able to build, train, and deploy a massive armed force is testimony to the fact that it's not only possible, it's preferable. The MIC/Corporatists have deliberately engaged in military adventurism to preempt reasoned discussion of the wisdom,

Don't look behind that curtain!

[The Backlash Cometh]

40. Cut and pasted from another thread I posted to this a.m.

I predict if this Congress does not begin impeachment proceedings against Bush, that Bush will bring the draft back right before his term is up. Then, if Hillary is in office, she'll repeat the bullshit that every incoming president must honor the outgoing president's policies. That;s how Bill got stuck with Somalia.

[Me.]

41. Sat. Morn

:kick:

[Orsino]

44. They've been testing it for years.

It just hasn't been judged to be profitable yet. A draft, they may believe, might end the war sooner--and they want endless war.

[TahitiNut]

55. They float it like a 'vaccination' ... just enough to stimulate resistance.

:shrug:

[Flabbergasted]

47. Yep

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

49. Lotsa Republiks are bouncing off the ceiling right about now...

...but it'll never happen- at least, not without some heavy exemptions built in. Other priorities, don't cha know...

"I had other priorities in the '60s than military service." --Dick Cheney to George C. Wilson of the Washington Post in 1989

[Alexander]

53. My roommate says he would "just show up" to any draft board...

Even though he hates the war, loathes Bush and feels the country has gone south since 2000.

This is the kind of complacency our government is counting on.

[NotGivingUp]

56. Here's one to think about:

They're getting rid of most of our jobs. They figure that way the unemployed will sign up instead of starve. I'd rather starve.

[yurbud]

58. everyone in congress who votes for it will be beaten to death with iPods and skateboards

[Me.]

59. The Suggestion Has Not Gone Unnoticed

John Edwards Lashes Out at Draft Revival

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2950246

[coco77]

60. Yes.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

62. If a draft were to happen, would it include females? nt

[Me.]

63. Can't See How That Could Be Avoided n/t