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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 07:16 PM
Original message
Questions Re :John Edwards' Hedge Fund
I will bring myself up to date on his hedge fund but from what I see it is foreclosing on some folks homes in New Orleans who are in default on their mortgage...

I have a question and I will try to make it as neutral as possible...I will also preface my remarks by saying I would hate to throw somebody out of their home or apartment because they can't pay the rent or mortgage ...


What is a property owner to do if a person can't pay his rent or mortgage, even after being given every chance to do so?
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Here's the most level-headed response so far:
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. You have to foreclose on them and take the collaterally

It's not the hedge fund foreclosing it's a lender they are invested in. Lenders don't want to foreclose on people especially if it's property that is going to be hard to sell, but there comes a point where you have to do it. The lender is having to pay investors or other lenders.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. The real question is what kind of saftey net does or should the government provide? /nt
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm not sure yet if Edwards if my candidate, but I think way too much is
being made over this. I'm not "hedge fund" savvy, but I can't believe John Edwards intentionally would throw anyone out of their home. Business is business....
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Amen.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. I don't know, but that's not the issue.
First, the issue was about a mortgage fund foreclosing on properties, not homeowners throwing out their tenants.

Second, my mother owns two rentals in Gulfport, which was devastated by the same hurricane, even though people have forgotten that. Both renters have had trouble paying, and to make matters more interesting, with the scarcity of houses in the region, rents have gone up dramatically, so she could throw them out and make a lot more money. And she's struggling as it is, so the money would come in a lot more handy for her than the extra couple of hundred K that Edwards was getting off his deal. She has covered their shortfalls, and worked with them, rather than trying to evict them and cash in. That's my inheritance she's spending, too, so this isn't idle chatter for me, it's personal. And I agree with everything she's doing. That's the way to do it with integrity.

Third, the real issue is that Edwards has criticized sub-prime lenders in the past as exploiting the poor, and yet he was invested and doing work for a hedge fund that was doing the same thing. So the question becomes, was he only lying about what he believed when he defended the poor and criticized sub-prime lenders for exploiting them, in which case he's lying about his concern for the poor, or does he really believe sub-prime lenders aren't really that bad, in which case he was attacking decent people for his own political gain? Or does he really believe sub-prime lenders are scum, in which case he believes he's scum, too?

Now, normally I'd say "Let's hear the whole story, let's see his side, maybe he didn't know, maybe it's not as bad as it looks." And, okay, I will say all of that. But this just fits in too strongly with a pattern I've seen lately. He criticizes Clinton for taking lobbyist money, when he does, too, in more secretive ways. He criticizes Obama for wanting to talk to lobbyists, when clearly he will, too. He attacks Clinton for voting for the IWR, when he did, too, and even though a lot of people don't understand why that vote wasn't a vote for war, Edwards does understand. Which means he's stabbing people in the back, for political gain. He told Kerry a secret about his son that he swore he'd never told anyone before, even though he'd told Kerry the same story the year before. And now he's taking money--both for his personal gain and for his political campaign, since this hedge fund and it's members have reportedly been donating heavily to the campaign--from a type of lender he has criticized, who is foreclosing on homes in the most abused part of the nation right now.

That just doesn't like Democratic to me. That doesn't look presidential. He's starting to look awfully slick. I'm southern, so I've heard southern accents most of my life, and I can tell when a southerner sounds disingenuous, or too smooth. Edwards sounds like that too often. This just fits in with that pattern.

That's why it's a big deal. The more people think on it, the bigger it will seem. Maybe he can convince me, convince everyone, that he was honorable here. I want to like him. I'm just having a bit of trouble doing so, lately. He needs to help me out in that regard. Pulling his money out of the fund helps. So does his pledge to help people hurt by the fund. But I want to know he's not just doing this because he got caught at something. I don't know all the details of it. So he needs to explain them.

Those are my thoughts. They don't have to be anyone else's. But all of my family is from New Orleans, and I grew up in Mississippi, so this is personal to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Well, Look At It This Way
When John Edwards signed on with Fortress, he didn't want it investing in companies with anti-labor policies or engaged in predatory lending practices. Perhaps he was not as careful as he should have been about making sure they were upholding his ideals. Perhaps these investment firms are so complex, that it is next to impossible to really find out every investment and everything every company does.

Is there a difference between sub-prime and predatory lending? Seems these mortgages were made when the real estate market was good and everyone was counting on the bubble - housing values were increasing and that provided equity. Then, the bubble contracted or burst (depends on your outlook). So, from Edwards perspective could it be that in a good real estate market (when he got into the fund), sub prime lenders were good in that they helped poor people become home owners, but now that they're starting to foreclose, they are bad.

As for IWR, he has said the vote is a mistake and pressed Hillary to do the same. As for taking money from lobbyists, he took money for a book deal, not a campaign. The difference is subtle, but I would like to believe he was clear about what they were getting in return for their money. It's not so clear when the money comes to your campaign.

As for the "secret" he told Kerry - whose word do we have on that? Have we actually heard Kerry say that or is some one quoting Kerry? And if Kerry had those misgivings, why would he have picked Edwards as his running mate? If it was bowing to political pressure, that doesn't say good things about Kerry, now does it? So, I think there's more to this tale than meets the eye.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I've done looked beyond all that.
First, Edwards, from what I've read, criticized sub-prime lenders, not just the vague "predatory" lending, which can mean a lot of things. If what I read was wrong, I'll adjust my thinking, but I need to hear something more from him than CYA good gestures. We've had years of that already.

Second, Edwards has taken lobbyist money and spoken to lobbyist groups, and not involving a book deal. He takes money from state lobbyist groups, and has several advisers who are lobbyists. He takes money from lawyers--his biggest group of donors--including members of the American Trial Lawyers Association, one of the biggest lobbyist forces in DC. His financial chairman is the former head of the organization--a lobbyist, in other words. When he made his famous attack on Clinton, where he asked the audience how many of them had lobbyists, many people in the room did, in fact, have lobbyists, since there were AARP and union members present. Teachers have lobbyists, as do the Sierra Club, labor unions, law enforcement agencies, fire fighters organizations... Edwards knows how it works. He pretends in his speeches that all lobbyists are bad--all Clinton said was many lobbyists actually work for liberal interests, which is completely true. The fact that he was condemning Clinton in such stark terms, when he knew what she was saying, shows that he's more interested in bamboozling the voter than in telling the truth.

Third, Hillary long ago said the IWR was a mistake. Edwards has criticized her for not apologizing for it. He also calls it a vote for war, when he, even if his supporters don't understand it, knows better. Clinton, Kerry, and many others state plainly that it wasn't a vote for war, it was an attempt to head of a war by making Bush use diplomatic methods. Edwards knows this, yet he's pretending otherwise.

And the secret he told Kerry--to the best of my knowledge, Kerry has not refuted this, nor has Edwards.

For me to consider Edwards, I need to see less manipulation, more honesty. Especially towards other Democrats.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. It isn't about a property owner (bank) throwing people out. The mortages and liens have been bundled
by banks and then sold to other funds. As an investment.

THAT is the risky business.
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