Preacher calls for 'death prayers' for critics of his huckabee endorsement.

[Philosoraptor]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/17/politics/main3180892.shtml

(AP) A California minister who used church stationery and an Internet radio program to endorse former Gov. Mike Huckabee for president is asking his followers to pray for the deaths of those who filed a complaint against him with the IRS.

The Rev. Wiley S. Drake of the First Southern Baptist Church of Buena Park, Calif., called for "imprecatory prayer" targeting Barry W. Lynn, Joe Conn and Jeremy Leaming of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

"The prayer does call for serious, serious punishment on people. But I didn't call for that, God did," said Drake, a native of Magnolia who completed a term in June as second vice president of the Southern Baptist Convention.

Drake said in a telephone interview Thursday that neither he nor the church violated the law and insisted he could use church stationery and the Internet program to "personally" endorse a political candidate. He said the Bible calls for imprecatory prayer when someone "attacks the church."
--------------------------

Imprecatory prayer? An example might be that you pray for the death and damnation of your neighbor for say, working on the sabbath, and while you're at it you curse his family to death and hell for the next seven generations, or something like that.

[Heidi]

1. Good Lord! (nt)

[Forkboy]

2. Some of these loonies are cracking and showing more and more of their Nazi wanna-be inner selfs.

[sarcasmo]

54. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Hippo_Tron]

3. Is the Internet Radio Program funded by the Church?

I don't care about preachers endorsing political candidates. Just don't do it in Church and don't use the Church's resources to do it.

[Philosoraptor]

10. I assume, preachers don't work for a living, they accept donations.

[DemBones DemBones]

14. Churches pay their pastors a salary, plus benefits, and

often give them a place to live. Some are paid very little, some are paid a lot. A guy who's held a high office in the SBC probably gets a fat salary and a nice new car, too.

[Philosoraptor]

16. But no taxes.

[Igel]

44. ?

The ministers in the church I worked for paid income taxes, state and federal, on their salary. They didn't pay FICA, but that's because they started as ministers back in the '50s when there was an FICA opt-out provision (since closed). There was a rather large tussle at one point because the IRS demanded that they pay 20+ years' worth of back FICA taxes, with interest and penalties, and we had to tussle with the IRS to look through files in their archives to find a copy of the opt-out form they filed (the ministers had long since lost their copy).

I don't clearly recall whether or not I deducted medicare/medicaid from their salaries. I think I did when I was doing the books.

They had a housing allowance, since the church didn't provide them a place to live. They could deduct from their gross income the cost of maintaining and furnishing their residence; I don't know if this provision continues to exist, I lost track of it all in '90. It's possible it only applied to the pastor.

At the time, the pastor had no dependents--both his kids had long since become independent. So I figured out what the average parishioner household would have to earn to yield the same takehome pay, and it was a good 30% higher, and a bit higher yet for the asst. pastor (who had a dependent). With their expense account and the decision that the ministers didn't tithe, it made their salaries 65-80% higher than their official salary. It knocked their claims of living on a far more modest wage than they'd be able to make outside the church, and their lifestyle being even more penurious than most of the parishioners' family incomes, right in the head.

[Philosoraptor]

45. If churches don't pay taxes, why should their ministers?

[Selatius]

4. Not very Jesus-like.

Jesus never wished death on any life, not even his greatest enemies. He was not above whupping somebody's ass who deserved it though, like the moneylenders in the temple, but he wasn't going to wish them death and damnation.

[Philosoraptor]

7. Serious, serious punishment on people.

Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord.

[saltpoint]

5. "In the name of God, KILL the detractors of Brother Mike of Arkansas!"

[Philosoraptor]

6. See that they die in agony Lord, & that their children are also cursed.

Yeah, these people need to go to church pretty badly.

[saltpoint]

12. Yea, but that the Righteous shall invoke His wrath upon the heathen

libruls!

[spindoctor]

8. On the subject of punnishment...

...when it comes down to God or the IRS...
Let's just say it wasn't God who nailed Capone.

[n2doc]

9. "Christianity is the Religion of Peace"

Not for him, I guess..

[Philosoraptor]

11. Some believer may get tired of praying & try a more direct method.

That's what the preacher is really doing, egging some true believer on to commit murder.

[ClintonTyree]

21. Like the Doctors who perfromed abortions........

they had a "hit list" and crossed out the Doctors who were murdered or died of "natural causes". :grr:

This "in the name of god" stuff has gotten WAY out of hand. It's time to make an example of a few of them. Left unchecked, these brazen lunatics will try more outlandish, dangerous and criminal methods to force their beliefs on others. Why doesn't the IRS, FBI etc. crack down on these superstitious, whacked out charlatans? My guess is that they're under orders NOT to. Orders that probably come from the highest levels of our government.

Religion is the greatest breeder of hate on our planet. Always has been, always will be. Until there's an enlightenment in this world this sort of crap will continue until they get what they want: destruction of the world in the mistaken hope that "the rapture" will cleanse the world and beam them all up into the clouds to live happily ever after. :puke: MORONS!

[SammyWinstonJack]

42. "This 'in the name of god' stuff has gotten WAY out of hand". No kidding!

:thumbsup:

[DemBones DemBones]

13. That's absurd. The man needs to read the Gospels again.

Jesus said to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. That definitely excludes praying for someone to die.

Jesus also taught that we should pray for our enemies because praying for your friends is easy. Praying for your enemies, and forgiving your enemies, is difficult.

Jesus said to forgive your enemy seventy times seven.

This preacher no doubt claims to believe that the Bible is literally true and that the Gospel of Christ is most important but his actions show otherwise.

This is the second wacko preacher to endorse Huckabee.

[Philosoraptor]

15. Like the church lady: "I'll say a little prayer 'against' you.

[fasttense]

17. Very old testament.

Isn't that prayer in Psalm and done by David? Never did Jesus advocate praying for the death of an enemy. What about forgiving seven times seven? Praying for vengeance against your enemy is more in keeping with ancient Judaism and pagan Roman religions which Jesus was fighting against. How can he even call himself a Christian? He knows nothing about what Jesus was trying to teach.

[Philosoraptor]

19. Yes, we've drifted over into curse territory. A common mistake.

[Cobalt-60]

18. Well, two can play at that game

Here goes the incantation: "May death find the Reverend quickly."
I think I got that from Morbo the News Monster.
Of course how long can one of these guys last, anyway.
Gay prostitutes, Crystal Meth, etc, I'm surprised they get a year out of them.

[Philosoraptor]

20. May the Lord & the media find you lying in shame with a rent boy.

[Pushed To The Left]

22. Has to be embarrassing for Huckabee!

I don't think any halfway decent or sane person would want Drake's endorsement! I hope the IRS takes him to the cleaners. Somebody like Drake doesn't belong near a church OR the political process!

[Az]

23. Guess God is his own personal Smite-O-Matic

Pity he has so much trouble following the law. I hear Jesus takes a dim view of those who do not obey civic laws.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

24. "As we forgive those who trespass against us" n/t

[BeyondThePale]

25. WWJCfIPA?

Who would Jesus call for imprecatory prayer against?

[Judi Lynn]

26. Here's the lovely Wiley Drake as he visited an immigration rally 5-1-06, in Santa Ana, California..

He was wearing a Minuteman pin somewhere on that suit, and there were Minutemen in attendance. When the immigration rally yelled "Si, se puede," the others yelled, "No, you can't." Too sophisticated, no doubt.

"Whom would Jayzuz harrass?"

[mwb970]

31. Why do the wackos all have to look like that?

I can spot one a mile away.

[Philosoraptor]

32. Standard issue appearance requirements from God.

[tom_paine]

27. The Kinder and Gentler Nazis, the Bushies, are ever closer to "coming out of the closet"

with their true monstrous selves.

A preacher exhorting for Death Prayers is entirely consistent, if that preacher worships Bush Jesus, whom the rest of us know as Satan.

Such prayers are entirely consistent with BushChristianity, the New Totalitarianism, and the New Dark Ages.

[The Backlash Cometh]

28. This is exactly what they're like. Hypocrites who are enabling entire

congregations to be unChristlike. I went a wedding once and the priest said it was okay to wish bad things on people and he always wished that Barbara Walters would slip on a banana peel. At a wedding.

[mwb970]

29. What children these people are.

The combination of simple-mindedness, arrogance, fear, and hate is one I'm getting tired of seeing. I don't know whether to take this story as hilarious or pathetic. Presumably this wacko believes that he can "cast a spell" on someone else and make them die by simply gritting his teeth and praying out his hate to his "God Of Love".

I assume "Thou shalt not kill" is inoperative in this case.

[Philosoraptor]

30. In the good ol days we just killed folks without a lot of damn prayin'.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Philosoraptor]

34. No matter how intently I pray, Grovelbot just won't go away.

[midnight]

35. I spent many summers with a grade school friend at her

Southern Baptist church. They knew I was Catholic and treated my with respect. I loved all the crafts we would do. I don't know where all this hate is coming from, but it seems to be building with a religious furor. It certainly isn't the atmosphere I was exposed to. Hating with a religious zeal-very strange.

[Philosoraptor]

36. Now I lay me down to sleep, in my little bed,

I pray that God before I wake makes all my enemies dead.

[Elspeth]

37. "But I didn't call for that, God did," said Drake" ?? (Talk about taking the Lord's name in vain!)

People forget that taking God's name in vain refers to claims such as these. What this so-called minister is doing is a sin.

[Philosoraptor]

38. Why doesn't he kill his OWN enemies instead of asking God, who is busy.

[acmavm]

39. Those Southern Baptist leaders are such a whacky bunch.

[Philosoraptor]

40. And by extension, a prayer for death to all liberals!

[enki23]

55. you can bet there are plenty of those

nothing fails like prayer.

[spanone]

41. our founding fathers realized the importance of separation of church and state

our current junta doesn't have a clue.

they are too busy promoting church and state.

[undergroundpanther]

43. Right wing fundies

DO curse prayers asking god to give them their own way.I remember while I was involved with them.Every prayer session make so and so suffer until he thinks like fundies do,and believes. They prayed for jesus to destroy so and so's business so they may come to jesus..The fundamentalist Christians DO do black magic because they are claiming to be good and using god like a sock puppet while claiming they are not doing this.,And think they are saving souls by calling God's wrath down on people they don't like or whom is not in THEIR control.

I say counter curse them.

This is my counter-curse
Sekhmet Take every control freak fundamentalist and tear open their deepest secrets .Expose thier lies to the burning angry eyes of those who walk in Maat.

Sekhmet let every fraud hypocrisy and lie be seen for what it is.May these evil people hiding in churchman clothes and their deeds and dealings behind closed doors be exposed to the public.May they have all their 'connections' and 'friends' be exposed and sharing their tainted demise, and dragged down with the company they keep,and may there be nothing to cover their asses with, no verse chapter or legal loopholes as they meltdown publicly in shame, sentenced in a public trial and be dragged to a state prison, May the last we see pf them be their sniveling whining for their god of hate to save them from the justice they always thought they were above raining down on them like heat from an unforgiving sun and let them know the god of kindness they never knew he will not help them.No one will help them out of their well deserved condemnation..and social death sentence.
Sekhmet make the mask of sanity these disgusting preachers and churches wear to face the public be torn away totally to reveal the sick festering fraud and psychopathic narcissistic and authoritarian swine they are,and let them in a point of wishing desperate for escape from justice's jaws ,find their god not only abandoned them, but to be told he does not know them, and let their jesus throw them in the fiery pit with the Satan they know so well where they can gnash their teeth and burn forever and ever..

Hail Sekhmet.

(remember to these fundies their victims well being is not wanted so..)

Sekhmet bring swift justice, safety and a restoration of what has been swindled and violated and abused to those people and communities and societies who have been abused,victimized by these rabid preachers and corrupt churches and their associated networks'.Let every Christian that loves the kind jesus find their voice of outrage at these frauds and haters in the cloth..

Take these churches and preachers spewing curses and return their hate back to them until it is exhausted,and may the victims of these bully pulpits be freed from the toxic influences of these churches never to be fooled again.

Ta'maatSekhmet!

[Exiled in America]

46. Its funny that this is the second full DU thread devoted to this fringe pastor and non-story.

This is home of this guy's massive following that has managed to get national news attention. And at least two full threads devoted to him here on DU.

This guy is about as "mainstream" as fred phelps. He has a tiny congregation of nuts, and he says nutty things. Big deal. They media has hyped this story up, and now DU eagerly pounces on it, because anytime there's any story that might confirm the cognitive biases of the community against religious folk - you can bet it will be repeated and repeated and sensationalized and trumped up here.

[Philosoraptor]

47. You callin' me biased against religious folk?

Them's prayin' words pardner!

[Philosoraptor]

48. Holy Shit Hateman!

[vixengrl]

49. I don't mind calling a "hex" a "hex"

and wonder if he'll reap a threefold reward. And I wonder how an all-powerful and knowing God might enjoy being blamed ("But I didn't call for that, God did.") for the Rev'rend's fit of pique. After all, this is something other than the prayer all Xtians were taught by Jesus in the Lord's prayer (for nothing other should be warranted--thanks for the grub and for the evil day not being at hand--that should be enough and more than enough.) It's dubious theology, if there be any of the solider sort. He'd be damned as a Christian and triple-damned as a witch for such Left-hand-pathology. Insofar as I am a militant pagan agnostic, he affronts me on all four corners and where it would presumably hurt me the least--I too, am an Americans United person just like I'm a secular humanist and all that PFAW, ACLU stuff that goes with it. By endorsing any candidate from the pulpit, he lets the Phantasy of the Immmortal Soul and Probable Damnation Thereof enter into the democratic decisions of his flock. Our American progenitors ('Forefathers' being sexist) knew from a close viewpoint--of the problem of religion as affected England and the continent. The "wall" described by Jefferson may well have been in a letter only--but its spirit is the spirit of our law--and rightly so.

[Philosoraptor]

50. I'd like to see the founders take a crack at w and the neo cons.

Can you arrange a meeting?

[WildEyedLiberal]

51. what the FUCK is this for real?

Our own American mullahs issuing fatwas, proving just how qualified we are to spread freedom to the "terrorists" :wtf:

[Philosoraptor]

52. We tolerate it cause the guy is technically a Christian.

We put up with a lot in the name of religion.

[Philosoraptor]

53. ................