Too much political correctness on DU?

[MoonRiver]

Even a good thing can reach the level of the absurd. THAT is what I'm talking about.

[jgraz]

1. I'm offended by this poll

:P

[Buns_of_Fire]

21. Oh, yeah? Well, I'm offended at your offense!

;-)

Personally, I love popcorn for a Saturday brunch, don't you? :popcorn:

[Cha]

35. Popcorn's good anytime!~

:popcorn: :popcorn:

[Buns_of_Fire]

40. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnd......... The high fiber content keeps us regular!

We're probably the most well-regulated people on earth. :popcorn: Between popcorn, Cheezy Poofs, triple-pepperoni pizza (God's Perfect Food), and beer, this has to be the most perfect of all worlds. Candide thought so, anyway. :-)

[Cha]

46. We really need a smiley

taking a big bite outta Pizza! Pepperoni or otherwise..
http://www.prendergastlibrary.org/Extra!Extra!/Lucy/girl%20eating%20pizza.jpg

[EstimatedProphet]

184. Here ya go

[noamnety]

2. An odd sort of poll.

Is there a concern that we don't have enough tolerance for bigotry here?

[Maddy McCall]

3. What is your definition of "political correctness?"

That some DUers are "too sensitive" when other DUers use derogatory terms to refer to gays, women, and minorities?

The "too politically correct" complaint is a right-wing one.

When I hear someone tell another DUer that "you're being over-sensitive" or "you need a thicker skin," it makes me think that the person giving the "thicker skin" advice is probably the one who needs behavior adjustment.

[WillyT]

7. Curiously... The "Thick Skin Proviso" Is Right There In The Rules !!!

Rule 4. - Content:

Do not post messages that are inflammatory, extreme, divisive, incoherent, or otherwise inappropriate. Do not engage in anti-social, disruptive, or trolling behavior. Do not post broad-brush, bigoted statements. The moderators and administrators work very hard to enforce some minimal standards regarding what content is appropriate. But please remember that this is a large and diverse community that includes a broad range of opinion. People who are easily offended, or who are not accustomed to having their opinions (including deeply personal convictions) challenged may not feel entirely comfortable here. A thick skin is necessary to participate on this or any other discussion forum.

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

Just sayin.

:shrug:

[Warren Stupidity]

12. Which seems a fair and reasonable balance.

"too much pc" is the rallying cry of bigots everywhere. It is David Horowitz at his vile best, polluting the public discourse with memes intended to turn us against each other.

[WillyT]

16. I Totally Agree...

The problem is, when you have literally thousands of people, from all over the country, of different age\ethnic\religious\gender realities, and at various stages of enlightenment, you are gonna have "offenses" every now and again. Plus... it's an Internet Message Board. The history of these things is replete with offensive postings.

To me, if you want to change the behavior of those on the path to enlightenment, you do it in an enlightened way. You tend to get more converts that way.

Militancy, and confrontation, many times have the opposite desired effect, no?

I'll stick with MLK, Gahndi, etc...

:shrug:

[hfojvt]

88. yet that is a different issue

Some people might be offended by being told they are wrong or ill-informed, if their deeply held convictions are challenged.

That's not the same thing as having a thick skin when it comes to tolerating 'broad brush bigoted statements' or terms that are considered politically incorrect.

[MH1]

9. How ironic.

The "too politically correct" complaint is a right-wing one.

So, it's politically incorrect at DU to question whether there is too much emphasis on political correctness?

I think you made the point.

[Bluebear]

11. The "too politically correct" complaint *is* a right-wing one.

"Making the point" or not.

[MH1]

64. No, it's not.

Not the way it's been used, in my experience.

"Politically correct" is a reference to thinking within a box that bears the stamp of approval of whatever group one happens to be a member of.

When one expresses a thought - even if as a question, and not necessarily an opinion - that strays outside of the "Approved Way of Thinking" box, one is being "politically incorrect" in that society.

It has nothing to do with ideology, it has to do with open-mindedness vs. close-mindedness.

It is about far more than whether one should use the "n-word" or not, or other words that might offend someone just by their use. (I am personally opposed to use of language when one knows it is hurtful or offensive, but I also will give the speaker the benefit of the doubt when I can. It's much less stressful to not be offended all the time.)

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

136. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

152. Oh brother

Bluebear is one of the best advocates for civil rights on DU, including the right for minimum wage service workers to be treated with kindness and respect.

[JackBeck]

156. What, specifically, do you find as being "too much"?

I'm sure "Mr. bear" and I would love to discuss this with you.

[Gormy Cuss]

87. Yes it is, for the most part, a right-wing construct.

One must differentiate between "political correctness," a term which can be applied across a broad spectrum of ideologies, and the charge "too politically correct." That charge is mostly used by those on the right as an insult to those on the more tolerant left. In my anecdotal experience I have never heard the latter phrase used to describe someone with right wing or conservative ideologies. It's a charge leveled at people on the left only.

[MH1]

101. Seriously?

You've never been a situation where you couldn't say something because it wouldn't be "politically correct" - because you were at work and it would piss off the boss, or you were with your relatives who hold different views than you, or you were around a bunch of right wingers and didn't feel like getting in an argument?

Maybe it's a regional thing, or generational, or something....I have used the expression with friends of mine (usually liberals) for many years and we always use it in the general sense. It's not a right wing or left wing thing. (On reflection - it's probably because years ago when it came into usage, I wasn't involved politically. Maybe that's why it seems different to me.)

Anyway, why the hell should it be considered a "right wing" or "left wing" term? Liberals can be just as intolerant as right wingers. We see examples every day at DU. (Which was kind of the point of the o.p., I gather.)

Either way, I believe the op was using it in the GENERAL sense (based on subsequent posts by the op) so it seems in order to communicate effectively, perhaps people should consider what the op MEANT by the question (i.e. "closed-mindedness" if "political correctness" doesn't work for you).

[Gormy Cuss]

103. No, I wrote that "TOO politically correct" was the loaded phrase,

not "politically correct" by itself and yes I have heard and read "too politically correct" almost exclusively from people describing liberals or progressives who are trying to be inclusive and less judgmental, usually by people who don't want to stop using a term generally considered offensive.

I have heard language limits described as politically correct in the context of work (with social issues) and it was used to mean the preferred term over loaded terms whether they be racist or sexist or whatever. I never heard terms referred to as "too politically correct" in that setting. Political correctness did not have degrees. Either the term was the politically correct term or it wasn't. Politically correct was nearly synonymous with generally preferred term.

In fact, as the right wing started using the term derisively those in my language-sensitive field stopped using "political correctness" altogether.

Your last point is a different matter of discussion and I haven't been back to review the subsequent posts, but "closed-mindedness" is wholly unrelated to "political correctness." If the OP meant to start a discussion on closed mindedness the choice of phrasing in the poll was most unfortunate.

[Quantess]

123. I'm going to be Politically Incorrect right now,

and accuse you of having an avatar that does not represent your own skin color. Am I accurate?

(Not as though it's wrong in any way to have an avatar that does not represent your own skin color, of course.)

[Blashyrkh]

195. Well said.

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lorien]

82. Yep. They invented the term to belittle anyone on the left

who supports the idea that a qualified woman or minority can get a job that an under qualified white man wants, or that white men shouldn't automatically get paid more than anyone else for the same job. The Right also wants to use the "n" word or call non whites "monkeys" without being called out as bigots. They say that they are "speaking the truth" while the "librul left" wants to suffocate the truth with "political correctness". I actually have known and worked with some of these people, and they use the term dozens of times a day during their rants against the left.

[cgrindley]

128. Political Correctness is a Maoist construct

and should be seen as a horror. The problem being is that some of us on the left are convinced that progressivism means a nauseating blanket support for every single fringe concern, no matter how idiotic or no matter how opposed to liberal beliefs that fringe concern happens to be. There are people on this site who believe that progressivism means that it is criminal to offend others, and that all beliefs or choices must be respected or even celebrated, when, indeed, our responsibility ends with respecting the right for people to excercise their legal and moral choices for the betterment of society as a whole. There are people on this site who support groups who would destroy our society just as surely as the neo-cons and other fascists.

EG I do not respect any choice or belief a person might have if it runs counter to the establishment of a just, democratic and free society.

Political correctness, on the other hand, suggests that I should.

[Boojatta]

150. Good post!

I don't know anything about Maoist constructs. That part could use an additional explanation, but the rest of your post is very clear and very good. It makes a good contribution to this thread.

[struggle4progress]

83. "Political correctness" is just what wingnuts call points-of-view they don't like

[LostinVA]

151. Absolutely -- I agree

Those crying about "needing a thicker skin" need to read this part of the DU rules:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

Bigotry and Broad-Brush Smears

When discussing race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion, or other highly-sensitive personal issues, please exercise the appropriate level of sensitivity toward others and take extra care to clearly express your point of view.

Do not post messages that are bigoted against (or grossly insensitive toward) any person or group of people based on their race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion, lack of religion, disability, physical characteristics, or region of residence.

[NaturalHigh]

170. Plenty of Democrats get irritated by an excess of political correctness.

Count me as one.

[seemslikeadream]

4. ABSOLUTELY

[Hamlette]

5. not enough

[AZBlue]

22. That was my immediate thought.

[NaturalHigh]

173. Apparently, 64% of the people who voted disagree with you.

Nobody has the right to never be offended. I am not obligated to censor myself to avoid giving offense to the easily offended.

[Katherine Brengle]

6. "PC" = don't act like an asshole

It's not hard to do and it isn't well adhered to my many here.

[struggle4progress]

90. When I first heard it, "He's PC" meant something like "He starts brain before putting mouth in gear"

That was a quarter of a century ago.

he expression was being used by people, who every single day worked against the murderous and dishonest political propaganda the Reaganites used to justify murdering Central America, and who had to deal constantly with the political consequences of mindlessly blathered inaccurate idiocies

[Bluebear]

8. "Too much PC": What boors whine when they open their big yaps & offend someone

[Jade Fox]

134. good one

"Ya mean I gotta change??? Goddamn pc bullshit blah blah blah whine feel victimized etc...."

[blondeatlast]

177. Exactly. nt

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

10. You're about to find out

:popcorn:

[WillyT]

18. ROFLMAO !!!

:popcorn:

:hide:

[Blue_In_AK]

13. I think the opinions of all DUers should be respected

as long as they're not obvious disruptors. We can agree to disagree, we can ignore threads that offend us, we can alert the mods if somebody's obviously out of line. We are a bell curve. A few people go over the top in sensitivity, a few people seem to take pleasure in offending. Most of us are in the middle, I suspect. For myself, now that I've been here for a while, I know whose opinions are valuable to me and whose aren't. I choose to read and respond accordingly.

[jobycom]

14. There's not fucking nearly enough of it.

The "Politically correct" meme is just a weak-ass excuse for bigots to justify their bigotry. Mind your manners, and you won't have any problems. If you do offend someone, rather than crying and whining about it, learn, and don't do it next time. It's what being a decent human being is all about.

That's the politically correct version of my answer. My real answer would have more abusive language, and would not be politically correct. Then again, it's not politically correct to be politically correct these days, so maybe being less politically correct would be more politically correct... Face it, the phrase only means that some wants to be an asshole and people are calling them out for it.

[Bluebear]

15. Yes indeed. nt

[Blue_In_AK]

17. Although sometimes the extremely politically correct here

can attack an innocent post that is not in any way asshole-ish. Like last winter when I posted photos of some of the Iditarod dogs in the Lounge, I got murdered by the PETA folks. I mean, all I was doing was posting some pictures of some DOGS, not making any statements one way or the other as to the pros/cons of long-distance mushing. To me, that is over-the-top sensitivity. Despite myself, I got drawn into an argument which in no way was my intention when I posted the pictures -- which I thought were quite good, by the way.

But do you see my point? Some people on both ends of the spectrum are looking for a fight.

[jobycom]

20. That has nothing to do with political correctness.

That was a discussion on animal rights, from the sound of it. The whole point of DU is to discuss such things. No rule says everyone has to agree with you, or you with everyone else.

Political correctness is nothing more than the realization that language creates reality, and the attempt to make that reality more egalitarian for everyone.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

25. Ah, but that is the slippery slope

There are certain people here, whom if you don't agree with them 100 percent on an issue, will decry you as not being "a true progressive".

For example, on the subject of animal rights. I may consider myself a supporter of animal rights because I'm against animal testing, people wearing fur, and such things as the iditarod. But if I happen to mention that I'm not a vegetarian, it's almost certain there will be four or five people within a few hours saying I'm not for animal rights, and attempting to shame one for "not really" being an animal lover or supporter of them. The simple disagreement over a point in where you break from the self-annointed "progressives" of the group often leads to some being labeled as being "against the cause" as a whole.

I don't know if "political correctness" is the right term. I think it's just some people don't like to be disagreed with, and attempt to use guilt to hide behind labels much the same way the Rethugs hide behind "patriotism" and "I love America more than you" bullshit to snuff out any dissent. The whole "You're not as liberal as me, therefore I have more right to exist here and be disgusted with you" is getting old.

[jobycom]

39. That has nothing to do with political correctness, either, or slippery slopes.

That has to do with everyone believing in their own opinions and liking to argue.

You want a slippery slope, I'll give you one. Back in the late 60s and early 70s, as African Americans began to demand basic human rights, and women began to demand equality, people began to understand that our entire language had become laden with bigotry, in ways that prevented full equality. Obviously, the normal racist and sexist slurs were a problem, but beyond that, common phrases people never thought of. Co-ed. Girl when referring to an adult. "Mighty white of you" meaning virtuous actions. And more subtle still, words like "Stewardess," which implied a different category for women even in the same job as men. Or with Reagan, "welfare queens" or "Affirmative Action hires."

Langauge kept us divided, kept us stratified into different groups. The idea of "political correctness," under whatever phrase was used was to make language more equal, less discriminatory. And more specific. "Co-ed" should be dropped in favor of "student," in other words, unless there was a reason to refer to gender.

This pissed of right-wingers to no end. They screamed about cencorship. They screamed about the first amendment. They screamed about the loss of artistic expression--as if there were any right-wing artists. What they really meant was simple--they wanted to call women "girls," they wanted to be able to make lude comments to female employees, they wanted to be able to pressure them into bed. They weren't fighting for rights, they were fighting for continued superiority. They wanted African Americans unemployed and living in ghettos, and they wanted women in their beds and wives in their kitchens, and political correctness was interfering with that.

Here's your slippery slope. I have no doubt that you understand why the F word shouldn't be used about gay people, or the N word about African Americans. Even most conservatives will at least give lip service to understanding that. But, some people, even liberals, get upset when they feel PC has gone to far. "Why can't we talk about Valerie Plame's looks on DU?" is a question I saw the other day. "What's wrong with saying Valerie Plame is a pretty girl?" Probably not too much, aside from the fact that we at DU generally exist to discuss political, social, and cultural issues, so singling one woman out based on her looks both belittles the more relevant contributions she has made, and implies that even professionals should be judged on their looks. But still not a big deal--Valerie Plame will survive, and women won't be cast back into the kitchen from one comment.

But then you've started down the slippery slope. Valerie Plame sure is pretty. So is some other woman. That other woman, though, she's not so pretty. Maybe someone should tell her to start wearing better makeup and lose a few pounds. And since we're on the subject, how's that new job search going? Yeah, I saw that one woman, she was the most qualified, but God she was ugly! Can't we hire someone prettier? It's not like we're hiring a rocket scientist or some other important man's job...

A discussion of the proper way for animal rights folk to behave has nothing to do with political correctness, but I'll tell you why you think it does. Republicans. Republicans have corrupted the phrase as much as possible, so that it now means basically "anything I don't agree with." They did that on purpose, so that people would react as you inadvertently have. Condemn PC because someone picked a fight with you not related to PC. That way, you see, the Republicans can then go further, leaping on that slippery slope and tobagganing where they want to go--straight to the bottom.

How far down the slope do you want to go? I say the first step is too far backwards. We should be walking away from the slope, not following the Republicans onto it. Republicans are meant to be lemmings, Democrats are meant to be leaders.

[bettyellen]

43. bravo, Joby

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

44. I don't think you give enough credit to the folks at DU

I think the vast majority of folks here are mature and rational enough that they can say that Valerie Plame is an attractive woman without it turning into a circle jerk like the typical thread at Free Republic would over say, Condi Rice. Only a small percentage of threads here comment on Valerie Plame's looks, the vast majority comment on her ability and class. And mind you, over on Freepland, I bet the threads about Rice HAVE degenerated into discussions of her incompetance for far different reasons than they would here. You can figure it out as to where that road would lead.

There's a reason you don't let children play with power tools. They aren't mature enough to handle them or realize when they are going too far. I liken the typical Freeper/Faux News watcher to the child in that analogy, making the leap from saying "She's attractive" to "Boy I'd blankity, blank blank the blank out of....." and then leading to the idea of "We need to get more attractive ladies" etc.

My comment still stands that there are people here who use the idea of "political correctness" to attempt to guilt others into thinking they must be wrong for having a slightly different view. I don't care that Republicans started it, because they can't help what they are (mainly, provaricators). As you said, we are better than that.

I also don't think it would hurt to mock the term itself for our own purposes, because there are plenty of issues the Republicans attempt to "own" that now fall under "political correctness", and should be called out as such.

[jobycom]

59. Misses my point.

The point wasn't about maturity or who wants to boink who, the point was about the reality we create through the way we speak. What we say--by we I mean everyone everywhere--is what we become. I'm not worried about DUers having sexual fantasies about her, I'm worried about American culture never growing beyond the point where we feel it necessary to comment on a woman's (and not a man's in the same situation) looks rather than just her professional skills, her job proficiency, and her place in professional society. If we at DU, where we are supposedly attuned to such issues, can't move past that, how can we have any realistic expectations that the rest of society will?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

67. Oh, I disagree we don't comment on men's looks......

See, I think this is where you get into a narrow view of perception on what is "PC" here. How many people have a hangup on John Edwards' hair, Fred Thompson's jowls, Bush's chimp-like face, etc.? There are more posts about those things than Valerie Plame' looks, although probably not as many as those about Ann Coulter's. Why is it only unacceptable or "politically incorrect" to comment on a female's looks when there are posts saying Obama, or Gore, or Bill Clinton are sexy every day, or saying Rudy Guiliani or Thompson are hideous?

[OzarkDem]

92. Excellent post! Thank you!!!!

Dems sensitive to what they refer to as "political correctness" (a right wing term, IMHO) don't realize that their idea of a funny joke means real injury to real people.

I'm sure fellow Dems who complain of "PC" would not be happy if something that my friends and I said ended up costing them their job, their promotion or their application for a loan. Discrimination exists, its real. Things have improved, but there are many who wish to turn back the clock.

[LostinVA]

155. Excellent, excellent post

[goodgd_yall]

41. Yes.

There's a way to disagree that's respectful. I have to say I've lost my civility a couple of times, but I make an effort to argue a point and not attack the person. Although I think the guy who posted that the trouble with women (when referring to a post about a woman being brutally attacked---maybe killed, I can't remember) is that they don't know when to shut up, deserved every rude response he got. There's a point of no return.

[Quantess]

51. PC aside, some people need a thicker skin when it comes to this:

"There are certain people here, whom if you don't agree with them 100 percent on an issue, will decry you as not being 'a true progressive'".

[The Vinyl Ripper]

66. In a community as large and diverse as this one..

It is virtually impossible not to upset _someone_ with any but the very mildest of comments or opinions.

I've been watching the "smoker" threads and am constantly surprised by how sensitive people on both sides of the issue seem to be.

I set off a huge flame war on a forum dedicated to audio gear a few weeks ago by stating my opinion that it is all but impossible to hear any differences in modern high quality amplifiers since they approach perfection so closely.

Literally, I was called unfit to reproduce.

You would have thought I had told people their kids were ugly and stupid.

My point is that you never know when some random statement, opinion or observation is going to set someone else off.

Try not to be deliberately insulting but realize that you are going to offend some people no matter what you do or say.

[gollygee]

76. Yep

:thumbsup:

[fishwax]

110. sounds like a very solid summary of the situation

some iteration of "there's too much political correctness" is usually the knee-jerk response of someone who has been called on their insensitive/ignorant/bigoted language, etc.

[goodhue]

186. amen

[Pushed To The Left]

19. In America, it seems that political incorrectness has become the new political correctness.

The definition has changed. Political correctness used to mean walking on eggshells not to say anything that might offend somebody. Now it seems that anybody who believes in tolerance or has progressive views gets the "PC" label slapped on them. For example, on the show "Without Prejudice", a panel of five people judges a group of contestants and eliminates them based on information about their lives until only one is left to win the game. A contestant revealed that she was transgendered and most of the panel was very understanding. Then one contestant who had a problem with transgendered people accused the rest of the panel of "being politically correct" because they were being tolerant!

[Bluebear]

24. An excellent post. nt

[porphyrian]

23. No one's kicked me off yet. - n/t

Edit: tense

[gulliver]

26. "I may not like what you say..."

Any infringement on free speech is guaranteed to backfire -- as it has with PC. The oversensitive on all sides have created a free speech safe harbor for all sorts of vileness and stupidity.

You basically have to turn the other cheek most of the time and always listen very, very carefully to what people are trying to say. And if they are wrong, correct them. If they disagree, persuade them. Assuming the right to shut people up or judge them harshly on the faintest whiff of an idea you find offensive is un-American, unfair, unwise, and unbelievably destructive, IMO.

[WillyT]

27. BRAVO !!!

And if they are wrong, correct them. If they disagree, persuade them. Assuming the right to shut people up or judge them harshly on the faintest whiff of an idea you find offensive is un-American, unfair, unwise, and unbelievably destructive, IMO.

Most excellent point!

:applause:

[Bluebear]

29. "The oversensitive" : minorities.

[Oeditpus Rex]

34. I'm glad I read your post before I hit 'reply'

You're absolutely right, IMO. To be politically correct in a rational fashion is to listen to other views and, if one wishes, to offer one's own opinion, calmly and fairly. It is not to say "You don't have the right to your opinion because I find it offensive, and I'm going to attack you over it."

There's far too much of the latter at DU, and there's far too much jerking of knees.

[Katherine Brengle]

38. Ah yes, those oversensitive

women and minorities and gays who should just shut up and accept whatever crumbs they are offered.

:eyes:

[gulliver]

48. I didn't mean women, minorities, and gays when I said "oversensitive"

I mean most people. Everyone should be both more tolerant and more conscious of how they relate to other people. Nothing original. People have to work things through, and to do that, they need to talk.

Take bigotry, which is only a subcategory of PC I would argue. (Smoking, spanking, meat-eating, circumcision, cat-declawing, punctuation... are other categories of hyper-judgementalism/"oversensitivity," IMO, where it is difficult to get consensus or even a rational discussion.) In terms of bigotry, PC is used as a "get out of jail free" card for all kinds of offenses, from unintentional slights and poorly phrased "backward" remarks to outright, fighting-words, discriminatory, dehumanizing bigotry. By reacting with the same kind of anger to all levels of bigotry or backwardness we equate them in a way. And that allows true bigots to hide among the backward.

Moreover, we don't want true bigots to stay bigots if it can be helped. For them to learn better ways, they need to be able to talk.

Tolerance doesn't have to be limitless, obviously, and I wouldn't say anyone should have to "accept crumbs" or insults past a certain point. All I am saying is that censorship-like behavior or fighting are blunt weapons and should never be used as cure-alls. Getting along is harder than that in today's world, IMO.

[Bluebear]

57. Being anti-smoking or anti-spanking is not usually called "bigoted" nt

[treestar]

98. Not so

There are people who are oversensitive, whether purposefully or not. This is simply a fact. No one wants them to shut up. They try to get someone else to shut up by acting all horrified and trying to make the other person feel guilty. They jump on it at the slightest chance.

I find it ridiculous that liberals are accused of racism, sexism, etc. It's just dumb. Right wingers will have a person who resorts to that for lunch.

It smacks too much of victimhood, and that's just not the automatic strength some people make it out to be in a debate. It also tries to personalize and emotionalize and intellectual question. It doesn't work. And the reality is there are people out there who are far worse than DU - if you can't get the DUers on your side, believe me, the right wingers are going to treat you to some real sexism, racism, etc.

[OzarkDem]

94. Turning the other cheek doesn't help

Pointing it out to people when they make remarks demeaning to others based on race, gender, sexual preference, etc. deserves isn't just "PC", its essential to "raise awareness" of the importance of consideration of others in civil society.

IOW, don't expect those offended by racist or sexist remarks to turn the other cheek. Taking other people's feelings into consideration isn't that hard.

[rudeboy666]

28. Too much PC......a cry often heard from non-minorities....interesting

More interesting still: the cry often transgresses political affiliations!

[uppityperson]

30. Define PC. Bigotry? Not enough. "affected offense"? Too much. nt

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

31. other

It seems to come and go in cycles. I stay out of it for the most part because it is usually only the same core group of people who love to fight with each other over their pet issues.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[WillyT]

33. OK... Now THAT Offends Me, LOL !!!

Are you stalking me???

:hide:

[walldude]

36. Politically Correct is a buzz phrase created by people

who were tired of being called on their bigotry and racism. Standard right wing tactic of a piss poor attempt to make people feel embarrassed for having any kind of compassion. The sad thing is, their pathetic attempts to equate "manhood" with being a complete asshole have worked quite well on most of America.

[MoonRiver]

47. Let me tell you something about myself, and then please reflect on your stereotypes.

I'm an animal rights vegetarian, and democratic feminist.

[OzarkDem]

97. Well then...

People of both genders, eating habits and lifestyles can be inconsiderate and lacking compassion for others. It probably has a lot to do with the environment one is raised in.

I will say women born during the 70's and later grew up in a time when many feminist battles had already been fought and won. They don't have understanding or perspective on how difficult things were for women before the Feminist movement.

Sort of like being born on third base.

[walldude]

106. What does you being a vegetarian and feminist have to do

with what I posted? Did you misunderstand me? I was saying that PC is a term used by the right to attempt to embarrass people who call them on their bigotry or racism. How does your response relate to that in any way shape or form?

[Madspirit]

182. Thank-you Walldude. You are 100% Accurate...n/t

[goodgd_yall]

37. The very fact that people lump any reference of "political correctness"

in with right-wing propaganda, to me, is evidence of "too much political correctness." I usually smell a right-wing rat when I see or hear the term used, but I think there are times its appropriate, this poll being one of them. When something someone writes or says is automatically rejected or closed to any discourse because a term or phrase is used by the right wing for its own agenda, is one of the things I find dismaying about DU.

[bettyellen]

42. it's lumped because the RW actually invented this term to beliitle progressives

[Bluebear]

55. You said it.

And good to see you! :hi:

[goodgd_yall]

77. Origin of "politically correct"--and I can vouch for this being an "older woman"

It was VERY difficult finding something on the Web that explained it best since all googling came up with the current use of "politically correct" rather than its origins.

But here, I found this from "Rodger French Weblog":

First things first – let’s get the record straight on the origin of the term “politically correct” or “PC.” It is, quite literally, a joke. The phrase entered our lexicon some years ago as an expression of ironic self-deprecation on the part of various Lefties, many of whom were keenly aware of their image as being too serious, too sensitive and way too humorless. Not that there wasn’t – and isn’t – plenty to be serious about. Like saving the world from the clutches of the NeoCons and the Talibangelicals and their dissembling pinhead President. But... that is another rant.

Point is, “PC” was self-referential and never meant to be taken seriously. Unfortunately, taken it was – highjacked, as it were, by the Right-Wing Noise Machine - and morphed into a dreaded opprobrium, much in the same way “Liberal” was demagogued into a four-letter word and "Purple Heart" was denigrated from a medal to a band-aid.

I can tell you this is the truth, because I was there when it was first used in this way. I repeat, the RW co-opted the phrase to suit their despicable ends.

On edit: I actually don't think it was originally used as a joke by progressive-liberal-radical left people, but then it became a self-deprecating joke and the rest is history. I sure wish it could have been kept "our thing."

:grr:

[Warren DeMontague]

89. Do you have a link? Because without weighing in on the larger issue, I remember the origin, too.

From my recollection, it was NOT originally a joke. I had a relative at a pretty prestigious, very homogeneously ultra-authoritarian/left Eastern college (that shall not be named) in the early 80s. The first time I heard the phrase "politically correct" was from her and her classmates, and it was NOT intended in a "self-depricating" or "joke" fashion. It was deadly serious, and basically any idea that was not in line with the orthodoxy being preached at this institution was NOT "politically correct" and needed to be silenced.

I had come from liberal schools, too- but I was more in the tradition of libertarian merry prankster kook liberalism, and I was appalled. Not only at the idea of squelching disagreement but also because I KNEW this was a flaming rhetorical turd that the right wing would latch onto.

I was right.

[goodgd_yall]

93. Here it is

http://home.earthlink.net/~deluxevaudeville/rgfrenchweb...

Yes, you're right, I remember my colleagues and myself using it in a way that was not ironic. But I also remember it then becoming a joke on ourselves. I never realized it would catch on with the right wing.

[WillyT]

158. That's The Way I Remember It Too ID...

Wikipedia has a history on the phrase, although it's being disputed, LOL!!!

<snip>

The often quoted earliest cited usage of the term (in the form "not politically correct") comes from the U.S. Supreme Court decision Chisholm v. Georgia (1793), where it clearly means that the statement it refers to is not literally correct, owing to the political status of the United States as it was understood at that time.<7>

The term "political correctness" is derived from Marxist-Leninist vocabulary to describe the appropriate "party line", <8>and was used in communist countries in this way:

"Instead of proving his political correctness and mobilizing the masses, he often chose the path of repression and physical annihilation, not only against actual enemies, but also against individuals who had not committed any crimes against the party and the Soviet Government. Here we see no wisdom but only a demonstration of the brutal force which had once so alarmed V.I Lenin. . . ." <9>

It was then adopted in several related meanings by some in the U.S. political Left. One example cited by Ruth Perry <2> is in 1970, in Toni Cade's The Black Woman: "And a man cannot be politically correct and a chauvinist too". This example illustrates the later usage of the term to focus on gender and identity issues rather than on political orthodoxy in general.

By the late 1970s this term, re-appropriated as a satirical form of criticism, was being used by some on the Left to dismiss the views of other Leftists whom they deemed too doctrinaire and rigid. It was in this sense that the popular usage of the phrase in English derived, <10><11> and was employed by such narrators as Bobby London in his underground comic Merton of the Movement. The alternative term "ideologically sound" followed a similar trajectory to this point, appearing in satirical works such as Bart Dickon comic strips.

In an example typical of use within the left, Ellen Willis records that "in the early '80s, when feminists used the term 'political correctness' it was used to refer sarcastically to the anti-pornography movement's efforts to define a 'feminist sexuality'".<12>

In the 1990s, the term became part of a conservative challenge to curriculum and teaching methods on college campuses in the United States (D'Souza 1991; Berman 1992; Schultz 1993; Messer Davidow 1993, 1994; Scatamburlo 1998). In a commencement address at the University of Michigan in 1991, U.S. President George H. W. Bush spoke out against a "movement" who would "declare certain topics off-limits, certain expressions off-limits, even certain gestures off-limits."<13>

The phrase "politically correct" has become popular in other countries as well, including several Scandinavian countries (politiskt korrekt=pk), Spain and Latin America (políticamente correcto), New Zealand<14>, France (politiquement correct), Germany (politisch korrekt), The Netherlands (politiek correct) and Italy (politicamente corretto).

<snip>

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

In mylifetime, I remember the left using this first against its own. Then the right co-opted it, now apparently, the left wants it back.

:shrug:

BTW - I too am more in the tradition of libertarian merry prankster kook liberalism.

So everybody else can just PISS OFF!!!

:evilgrin:

[struggle4progress]

95. I heard it used in the early 80s to make a serious point lightly, with the self-mockery you describe

Sorta "Think about what you say so you don't communicate the wrong message"

Used in a partly-serious and partly-joking manner, it made criticism gentler because the speaker was laughing at him/herself

[goodgd_yall]

62. I don't think they invented it.

It used to be a good thing and then the RW co-opted it.

[MH1]

102. Bingo. n/t

[undeterred]

45. "It smells like an old lady"

Someone said this in a meeting at work yesterday. I and my manager were the only females in a room full of men and neither of us outwardly reacted to it. But I was offended. What does an old lady smell like? Why would anyone say something like that? To me it was just really inappropriate.

The subject we were talking about was some of us having to move out into a trailer temporarily because the company is short on desk space. What if I'd said "It smells like a young homosexual male"? - like the guy who said it. Now everyone would have thought that was politically incorrect. But not what he said.

How does a trailer smell like a type of person?

[Bluebear]

56. If you had said the room smelled like a young homosexual the men would have found that hilarious too

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

58. Really? Are you sure?

Tell us more about what you "know".

[Bluebear]

61. I know that gay men are often the brunt of a lot of office jokes.

That's "what" I "know".

[undeterred]

80. I am pretty new at this place

so I haven't picked up on that dynamic so far. It may be that my presence there (1st female in a group of men) is changing an established dynamic or people aren't sure what is ok.

[undeterred]

63. Nobody laughed at the first remark

and I don't think they would have laughed at the second- at least not in the presence of a female co-worker and a female manager.

I could care less how they talk when its just the guys and its not like I don't swear, all techies do. But remarks about women offend me and usually men are pretty careful about that in the workplace.

[Bluebear]

65. That's good.

I truly think they are just parroting something they have heard and didn't mean to offend in this instance. I have heard people refer to heavy "cheap" perfume as being "old ladyish" many times, and from people who would not offend someone on purpose if you made them do it.

[undeterred]

69. I don't think he even thought about it

but it was weird that it came from the one person in the group besides me (being middle aged and female) most likely to experience discrimination (being homosexual).

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

75. Oooh....the irony

My gay friend Austin would tell you what your co-worker was being.......but I won't say it because me saying it even by proxy might be labeled "politically incorrect". ;-)

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

60. I heard the line used on the Simpsons once

Actually, it might have been "This house smells like an old man" in reference to Mr. Burns' house.

[undeterred]

81. Ah. I don't watch the Simpsons.

[goodgd_yall]

84. Then you're missing out on a lot of cultural references

I don't either, but one way or another I discover that something that currently is popular to say originates from "The Simpsons."

[undeterred]

85. Yeah, but everyone has different tastes

I used to think the whole world watched Seinfeld, but they didn't. And the whole world didn't watch Sex and the City, or Friends, or Grey's Anatomy, or The Office, or Lost. And people at DU had to explain to me what "jumped the shark" meant.

I don't watch The Simpsons. A friend who has every season even invited me over, bought a pizza, and subjected me to two or three he thought were the best. I just wasn't into it. No cartoons for me.

[goodgd_yall]

111. My point was a sort of dig

that much of American popular culture is TV show oriented. I don't and haven't watched any shows that were or are popular, so if I ever do learn the meaning of a new saying, it's usually at the point it's become an old saying.

[Az]

49. So called political correctness is the result of trying to understand things

So are we suggesting that there is too much trying to understand things in DU?

[MoonRiver]

50. Understanding is great. Intolerance for the slightest deviance from the party line is quite another

It really has reached an absurd level here.

[Az]

52. Oh I agree that anger is misplaced

Do not expect everyone to be on the same page of understanding as you are. If they represent a view that you disagree with make your case but do not resort to emotional tirades.

[MH1]

71. MPR, it looks like we have two different basic definitions of "PC" on this thread.

I am with you, because my experience of the use of the phrase is the broader usage, someone deviating from the approved party line.

But jobycom makes a good point upthread about the history of the phrase. I don't know if he is correct, but if he is, that explains where a lot of the difference of opinion is coming from.

If we limit the term "political correctness" to describe only the use of offensive words like the n-word and the f-word (and c-word, b-word....) then how do we describe the broader issue? I'll suggest "closed-mindedness."

I wonder what the responses would be if you posted a new thread asking if there is "too much closed-mindedness at DU"?

Edit to add the link to jobycom's post that I referenced: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1613949&mesg_id=1614325

[MoonRiver]

105. Yes, I've been thinking about that.

I guess I'm just not "sensitive" enough to remember which phrases set people off. Still, the majority of respondents seem to have gotten the gist of my meaning.

And, I think if I'd said "narrow minded" or "intolerant" the same crowd would have found a way to bash me. That's what this thread is really all about.

Here's a :hug: anyway :)

[stirlingsliver]

53. "Too Much"?? Hell No!

Is there too much political correctness on DU?

I vote "No".

In fact, I vote "Hell, No".

There is way too little political correctness here on DU.

[NaturalHigh]

176. Maybe you could apply for the job of censor.

[cgrindley]

54. I actually once argued with someone about polygamy

So, yes, sometimes it's absurd.

[Uncle Joe]

68. I believe the term "political correctness" has become demonized

by many of those people that simply can't or don't believe in consideration of other people's feelings. To me political correctness is just another term for common courtesy or empathy, but there are forces at work that would love to eliminate this from our national discourse. Because if you can erase that or make the term unpopular, the task of oppressing the people as a whole becomes all the more easier.

I also believe this was a subtle way, the corporate media were able to attack Bill Clinton, to my knowledge he never actually uttered the words "I feel your pain" but he did seem to express empathy in a most effective manner and I believe this was used against him by the corporate media attacking his perceived strength. By demonizing "political correctness", they were subliminally attacking Clinton. I believe this was just another piece, although a subtle one, of the Clinton Witch Hunt. I also believe a primary motivation of the Clinton Witch Hunt by the same corporate media was indeed a back door attempt to keep Al Gore from coming to power, because he empowered the people by championing the Internet.

[jpgray]

70. Outlawing words is a waste of time. Giving those words the power to offend you is ridiculous

It's fine to be offended by someone who -uses- the words, but that hardly is the fault of the word itself. Bereft of the word, the same ugly thoughts would be present, just expressed slightly differently. To me it's eerily like Ashcroft's statue wrapping--just because you interpret it as offensive doesn't necessarily mean it's inherently bad in some way. And banning or covering something up rarely removes its power or its cache. And it doesn't change the intent and beliefs behind the use of that something.

[MH1]

73. Hear, Hear! n/t

[Quantess]

115. So, you probably voted "other".

I would hope.
That, or "PC" means different things to different people.

[iamthebandfanman]

74. we dont take kindly to ur type around these parts!

lol

[Jed Dilligan]

78. I'm against PC as I understand it.

It was a movement in the 80s and 90s by (mostly straight, white) Ivy League academics to transform the English language so that no part of it was offensive to anyone. My experience, being in college at that time, was that it shut down dialogue by focusing strictly on semantics. I have always felt the movement was crypto-rightwing, and I didn't mourn its passing.

That being said, I haven't seen PC on DU. PC is yelling "African-American!" when someone says "black." PC is not calling people out on their bigotry. Hell, that would be offensive to bigots!

[goodgd_yall]

112. Your understanding is a bit off base

I wouldn't say it was a movement and it didn't originate from white, Ivy League academics. It originated from discussion and understanding among women. disabled, and other minority people of the way they were made invisible by mainstream society.

I think the experience you had was of not having the awareness to understand why transforming the language was important. I'm sure you witnessed anger and frustration from people who were tired of having to explain why language should be gender neutral or otherwise transformed to reflect the experiences of more people than white males.

[Jed Dilligan]

132. My experience

was of a lot of snobs acting as mouthpieces for people they didn't know and didn't want to know.

[mitchum]

79. No, but there are too many reflexive martyrs and insta-victims and...

Johnny and Joanie One Notes

[cgrindley]

99. What often surprises me

is that people will post some ridiculous sob story about how their poor decisions led to a ruined life and then come begging for sympathy. What surprises me more is that such posters are almost never ridiculed... but this isn't a regular internet forum.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

86. Would you say it to your mother?

That's the question I almost always ask myself before I say something to somebody. Would I say it to your mother?

[KG]

91. word.

word to your mother :hi:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

120. Word back to yours!

:)

[Quantess]

122. Only if it's late 80's-early 90's slang.

[MoonRiver]

126. Of course. My mother has a great sense of humor and irony.

She can even laugh at herself.

I have never said anything, pc speaking, that was designed to hurt any racial, gender, ethnic, physically impaired, etc. group. I DO insult Republics on a regular basis, but hopefully that is acceptable here.
:eyes:

[OzarkDem]

96. Why is this topic on your mind?

Did someone post something that offended you?

[Bluebear]

100. And a very unfortunate poll result, IMHO. nt

[Tsiyu]

104. Agreed

I clicked my "no" but it won't help.

We are products of the prejudice around us. I would rather have someone say, "That offends me" and learn WHY than to just shut my mind and say "Oh that person is too sensitive." Maybe there is something I can learn from that person's struggles or their experience.

Simply dismissing them by saying, "Oh, you're not worth my time since you don't like the words I use" is the ULTIMATE in a closed mind.

I have had to learn to moderate what I say here because in RL I will cross accepted boundaries to make a point. Here, there my be someone who - not knowing me - thinks I have crossed their personal boundary. I try to take their comments into consideration.

"PC" used to mean measuring words against their impact on others and against known, blatant stereotypes.

Now, to some, it's just a pejorative to describe anyone who disagrees with you. Most people don't understand what PC is and no, there is not enough true PC here.

It really doesn't physically hurt to try to be thoughtful. If you post words you know will start a flamefest (because they started one the last sixteen times you used them) and then you have the audacity to complain about that, you either like to offend people or you are an idiot.


PC's got nothing to do with your personal problems....

[Bluebear]

135. Because he can't call men effeminate?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1613949&mesg_id=1617194

[LostinVA]

159. Wow. Unreal.

I can't believe that's still up.

[idgiehkt]

107. it's the collision

of one demographic encountering the reality that so-called minorities do in fact have a different perspective than theirs. And the inevitable tantrum that follows.

[fishwax]

108. what are you talking about?

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

109. I think we need some specific examples -- ????

[Solon]

113. Those who bitch about PC are white folks pissed at not being able to say Nigger in polite company.

I fucking hate racists.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

116. There's that 0 to 60 rationalization that makes these discussions pointless (n/m)

[LeftishBrit]

114. I don't think so; but may not have seen the threads you're referring to...

There's actually one area where I think a little more 'PC' mightn't be a bad thing. That concerns the links that are made to articles on other sites. There have been a number of links from time to time to some quite nasty hate-sites. I think that this is mostly not deliberate - people google a topic, and then post the first link they find, without checking the general nature of the site. But it would be better if people did check a bit more; which some might call 'PC' I suppose.

[LeftCoast]

117. It's interesting that most people think there's too much 'political correctness' on DU

but unless I missed it, no real examples of where this so-called political correctness has run amok.

Anyone care to share some links?

[Beerboy]

118. My vote is no.

Political correctness is an essential means of re-framing important political objectives.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

119. What are people deprived of saying on DU that they want to say

but can't/don't because of this excess of "PC"? Whatever it is,
would you say it in real-life in front of hundreds or thousands
of other people?

[MoonRiver]

125. Here are some examples:

If you say a male appears effeminate, or alternately a woman masculine, you get gang bashed and often locked.
If you say somebody is fat, watch out!
If you don't like somebody's outfit you are said to be petty and offensively obsessed with appearances.

These kinds of statements are usually uttered only occasionally by people, and, as far as I can ascertain and certainly in my own case, absolutely mean no harm. They are rarely stated in a mean or slanderous way, at least not toward the imagined group they supposedly reflect badly on. They are often just casual observations. And, yes, any that I have uttered are things I would say to people in the real world, i.e. outside cyberspace. (I would NEVER voluntarily choose speak in front of hundreds or thousands of people, so that is a moot point.)

:hi:

[Bluebear]

129. 'If you say a male appears effeminate, or alternately a woman masculine'

I could have guessed this is what was under your craw.

[goodgd_yall]

130. There you go. Case closed. n/t

[MoonRiver]

137. In those two cases I was referring to statements of mine regarding, respectively,

KKKarl Rove, and mAnn Coulter. Numerous others on this board have said the same thing. Why is this an issue?
:eyes:

[JackBeck]

138. Because just about every GLBT person I know and our supporters

finds it offensive to refer to those two public figures in such a manner.

That's why it's an issue. And numerous others on this board have been asked politely by some of us to stop referring to them as such.

What I don't understand is why some people continue to disrespect how most LGBT DUers feel over these issues.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

139. Because hurting people is all right as long as one doesn't intend to hurt them.

It's all in the motivation. And even if one does hurt somebody by something one says, it's too much work to think about what one is saying all the time. After all, everything one says could be offensive to somebody, so it's easier just to not care, or at least not intentionally mean to hurt somebody who hears something mean one says when one is saying it only to hurt somebody who's not even there! :crazy:

[JackBeck]

157. I loved your Casino Royale posts. n/t

[A-Schwarzenegger]

160. Oh, thanks! I like the gentleness with which you're responding

to M. Rock. :hi:

P.S. Was Oscar before your time here?

[JackBeck]

187. I believe it was.

But have noticed references to it every now and again.

Must be a DU classsic.

:hi:

[Bluebear]

141. Roll your eyes all you want. It's not you being offended.

How do transgendered people fell when you insist Coulter is a man. Does it matter to you?

[trayted]

124. There is too much political correctness everywhere. What else would we expect?

It's a product of human nature. Some people consider talking about differences or electability to be a shot at another candidate. It's a result of their personality, and in my experiences, a lot of people overlook the word "constructive" in "constructive criticism", and only see the "criticism."

[nolabels]

127. Talk about "Too much political correctness", even that is a...........

two dollar euphemism for an unspoken agenda. One thing you can notice about overeducated people is when the ideas they have adopted are put in simple terms they often go into denial mode.
Your veneer looks like shit and you are fucking up the planet in the process :puke:

[LanternWaste]

131. If you're simply talking about your own, personal definition of it

If by Political Correctness you mean 'consiously and consistently refraining from disparaging your neighbors; to illustrate manners and civility; to maintain the best that is in our nature...' No-- there's not too much here and if there is a place that is, I'd like to live there.

If you're simply talking about your own, personal definition of it, then no one knows but you...

:eyes:

[Homer Wells]

133. The Ignore button is our friend!

Use it as needed

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Madspirit]

149. Thank-you! I agree....n/t

[Name removed]

189. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cobalt Violet]

142. Yes there is too much.

Thin skin must be in.

[debbierlus]

143. Can you add WAY too much political correctness...

It gets rather silly at times.

[Bluebear]

144. Did the poll participants realize this was about the 'freedom' to call Coulter a "mAnn"?

:eyes:

[qdemn7]

145. No

And so what if it was?

[Bluebear]

146. I think it helps to let people know what your point is. nt

[Madspirit]

147. Not Nearly Enough Actually

All I have to do is read feminist threads and the backassward sexist responses they get or the threads on illegal aliens and all the xenophobes who come crawling out of the woodwork... This poll is laughable. This place is SO FAR from being politically correct at all, let alone "too".

Lee

[Boojatta]

154. threads on illegal aliens and ... xenophobes ... come crawling out of the woodwork

Surely you meant "legalistic people" rather than "xenophobes", right?

In some countries in Europe, there are more restrictions on freedom of speech than in America. Would you say that threads on court proceedings initiated because of speech acts in Europe that would not be illegal in America are threads that tend to bring haters of free speech out of the woodwork?

[Madspirit]

162. TALKING ABOUT THEM AS "THE OTHER"

I never said...let me put it another way...I NEVER FUCKING SAID THERE CAN BE NO DISCOURSE ON ILLEGAL ALIENS. It's the talking about them like THE OTHER..."those taco eating disease carrying mescans, trying to take all the BEST jobs while raping our more attractive daughters and bringing leprosy, I tell you LEPROSY and mescanism and not even talking like real white people..."

THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. GOT IT NOW?

I have many friends who are illegals, being a Texan and all and I rather break bread with them any damned FUCKING day than with the people here who talk like this. Who approach it from the bitty baby point of sniveling racists weeping in the corner wetting themselves and making up lies.

Got it now?

Lee

[Boojatta]

161. Can you name any message board that IS politically correct?

[Madspirit]

163. Yes, many but we're not allowed to mention them here....n/t

[Boojatta]

164. Can you PM a list of three or four website addresses to me?

[Madspirit]

166. I Changed My Mind...n/t

[Boojatta]

167. Okay, no pressure.

Feel free to PM me any time about any subject you like.

[Madspirit]

175. I PMed You...n/t

[Duncan Grant]

148. I guess it depends on how entitled one believes themself to be.

Got hegemony?

[Name removed]

153. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[goodgd_yall]

181. Oh, is this what it's all about?

Thank you for giving a link to the offending discussion, not having read it when originally posted because I probably, rolled my eyes and thought "how juvenile" (sorry MPR).

If she wanted to discuss the possibility that politicos who are the most stringently anti-gay are repressed gay men/women, it could have been done in a better way, IMO.

[Name removed]

165. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NaturalHigh]

168. No doubt about it...

especially when it involves crimes by women against men. If wife murders her husband, or if a man is forced to pay child support for a child that isn't his, it seems to be just fine with a lot of people here. I don't know if support for wacky ideas is considered some sort of "liberal litmus test" by some or if they honestly don't care about injustice so long as it favors women.

[rucky]

169. Too much concern over too much political correctness.

People are probably going to offended by one thing or another. If you offend someone and you didn't intend to, just say sorry and move on. But to suggest that they have no right to be offended is offensive, no matter how ridiculous it may seem.

[merh]

171. I'm concerned about which answer would be the politically correct

answer to give. Is it politically correct to be politically correct are has there been a shift and now it is politically correct to be against being politically correct? :shrug:





:hide:





The golden rule is a pretty good rule to follow, even if you aren't religious and think that God has more in common with the easter bunny than he does with reality. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

[La Lioness Priyanka]

172. some people find it hard to be polite and not indulge in racism/homophobia or sexism.

and then they cry about others being PC.

i find such people to be absurd.

[Touchdown]

174. Not too PC, but many DUers entirely miss the point

Case in point. Instead of arguing the point of the OP (and they know damn well what you're getting at), they just go with semantics and call you out for using RW constructs, and hijack the thread on some pendantic bullshit.

I had a thread a while ago where I talked about coming back to work from lunch with 6 Rwers around my desk area complaining about...whatever, you know the usual, and most respondents went on a lecture about eating at McDonalds (which is where I went for lunch.:eyes:

[MoonRiver]

178. Yes, indeed.

Clearly, based on the poll results, most people understand what I'm talking about, and actually agree with me :wow:.

I certainly understand the importance of being alert to the sensitivities of various oppressed groups. However, when every little statement is microscopically scrutinized and attacked, no matter how innocently it was made, or how innocuous it's meaning, we've reached the level of the ridiculous. There needs to be some balance. I am heartened by the fact that this thread still lives, and that the rational majority on DU seem to get it.

[Bluebear]

179. So if transgendered people are hurt by your comments they are "irrational" now.

"I certainly understand the importance of being alert to the sensitivities of various oppressed groups."

NO. YOU. DON'T.

Because if you did, and somebody pointed out, hopefully politely, that your statement, while made 'innocently' and 'innocuously' is offensive, you would learn from it, say "my bad" and not repeat it.

Instead, you make poll after poll trying to justify your words, and now calling the offended ridiculous and irrational. Which makes you a boor.

[Name removed]

196. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

197. Wow. So much flaming at people in the thread, yet the post which was the most controversial got...

no response. :popcorn:

[LostinVA]

198. Your post shows a dire lack of knowledge about the subject

I suggest you educate yourself, before you make anymore broad-brushed slurs, which is against DU rules and Skinner's directives.

[Madspirit]

183. Hitler Was a Heterosexual

Mussolini was a hetboy and a Breeder.

Feel Good? This whole thread is because the LGBT community is tired of coming to DU to see threads accusing every single Right Wing asshole out there of being a closeted gay. Deny it if you want but if you do, you're being disingenuous and I'm using that term so my post won't get deleted. I actually mean something MORE.

All the violence committed by breeder hetboys...woohoo. All the wars fought by breeder hetboys...
All the wives murdered by their very own hetboys...

You can make all the polls you want and the LGBT community still will NEVER let it slide. Keep us out of your analysis unless you're really a shrink and you have some idea where that theory even came from or whom it actually refers to. Otherwise it's just stupid, shallow and bigoted.

Lee

[MoonRiver]

190. People on DU now can't make derogatory statements about pit bulls

without being bashed. I just point that out to frame how idiotic this situation has become. (And NO I am not comparing pit bulls to any gender identity, ethnic, or other human group.)

But in regard to your concerns, I have said NOTHING derogatory about GLBT community EVER. And I never would. But regardless of that, outer appearance is not the sum total of a human being. For instance, my husband is Asian but he does not become offended if somebody says another person looks Asian. Some people look Asian, some people look African American, some men look effeminate, some women look masculine, etc. etc. etc. etc. Some people are actually proud of looking like the ethnic and/or gender group they identify with. Some people actively work to look like those groups.

Just saying.

[Madspirit]

191. I Think You Can Safely Say That Most Gays Don't Want To Be Compared To Fascists...n/t

[Madspirit]

192. Most Asians Are Closet Sadists

THAT would be more comparable to what is done TO the LGBT community around here and if THAT wouldn't offend your husband well, something is wrong with him. ...and when YOU guys say every god damned redneck asshole fascist pig is a closet gay, not only is it offensive to US, it's not even being used correctly from a psychological standpoint. ...and when you say that every ugly-assed woman, from a spiritual/political standpoint, is a transgendered person it most surely does offend our transgendered community. Maybe all Asian husbands are really closet sadists dying to don a dress. No? Then leave us the fuck alone.

Lee

[goodgd_yall]

180. Good case in point

That's the kind of thing that I chuckle at, or if in a bad frame of mind, get annoyed at.

[Madspirit]

185. Hitler was a HETEROSEXUAL!

Mussolini was a hetboy and a Breeder.

Feel Good? This whole thread is because the LGBT community is tired of coming to DU to see threads accusing every single Right Wing asshole out there of being a closeted gay. Deny it if you want but if you do, you're being disingenuous and I'm using that term so my post won't get deleted. I actually mean something MORE.

All the violence committed by breeder hetboys...woohoo. All the wars fought by breeder hetboys...
All the wives murdered by their very own hetboys...

You can make all the polls you want and the LGBT community still will NEVER let it slide. Keep us out of your analysis unless you're really a shrink and you have some idea where that theory even came from or whom it actually refers to. Otherwise it's just stupid, shallow and bigoted.

Lee

[goodhue]

188. I vote No!

To me it is a matter of civil rights and social justice, of which there is not enough.

[Lex]

193. "Political Correctness" is some term a Luntz freeper-type made up

just so he could sneer at people who told him the N-word was not acceptable to say, or calling homosexuals "fags" was okay.

Don't buy into it.

[Bluebear]

194. Poll question: Do you think Rove is a closet gay?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1580846

This is what all the fuss that this thread is seems to be about.