A WSJ piece set up Bush's speech, but Sen. Kerry debunked it in a letter to the editor

[ProSense]

Exaggerated Claims Of Violence in Vietnam

Date: 08/04/2007
By John Kerry

James Taranto misinterpreted my words and misreads history ("'It Didn't Happen,'" Opinion, July 26). I know the tragedy that followed a tragic war. John McCain and I led the effort to locate American POWs and ultimately normalize relations with Vietnam. I traveled to Cambodia to help create a genocide tribunal to bring to justice the butchers of the killing fields.

But what did not happen was the region-wide war or immediate chaos predicted by many who believed we had to maintain our massive military presence in Vietnam. A brutal dictatorship consolidated power in Vietnam, the region's refugee crisis worsened and two years after we left Vietnam, Cambodia's Khmer Rouge launched a genocide.

Mr. Taranto mistakenly views the violence after 1973 as a direct result of our withdrawal. In fact, the violence arose from the conditions that led us to withdraw: a Vietnamese civil war we couldn't stop supported by a Cambodian insurgency we couldn't bomb into submission. It's horrifying that so many South Vietnamese suffered. But, even accepting Mr. Taranto's estimate of 165,000 Vietnamese deaths -- double that of most academic sources -- this is a significant decrease from the preceding eight years when 450,000 civilians and 1.1 million soldiers were killed.

We should not repeat the mistakes of Vietnam in Iraq, but let's have an honest debate rather than a hysterical one. The agony of exiting a quagmire is that there are few certainties and no good options. That choice was created not by the advocates for changing course, but by the architects of a disastrous war.

Sen. John Kerry
U.S. Senator (D., Mass.)
Washington

Bush and his neocon friends have been laying the groundwork for their propaganda campaign: Group to Urge War Support

[brentspeak]

1. k and r

:kick:

[Windy]

2. He would have been a GREAT president!

[SaveAmerica]

4. : ) I was just writing the same thing, clear, concise thinking, we sure

could use some of that about now.

[Diane R]

24. Yes...he would have made a great president. And, he was even elected. :(

[vankuria]

27. Agreed!

Sen. Kerry would have made an incredible president and I can't help but think of what could have been. Definately all the right stuff. It still sickens me the way he was brutalized by a bunch of chickenshits.

[SaveAmerica]

3. The rabid wing of the Republican party wouldn't know an honest debate if it sat on their faces.

Everytime I read John Kerry's well thought out comments, it makes me wonder (and miss) what kind of president he could have been.

[babylonsister]

5. Sigh. What could have been. I'm so yearning for an unclouded mind. nt

[bdamomma]

19. so sad that we have lost our way.

we need to remove these criminals from office, they have disgraced and shamed us and treat us as fools.

[politicasista]

6. K&R

:kick:

[ohtransplant]

7. It seems the Senator caught someone trying to

catapult the propaganda. How many times can they cry wolf?

Will our elected representatives, the media and millions of 'murkins fall for this again?

Yes, Kerry would make an excellent President. I'd vote for him for sure.

[KoKo]

8. Good for Kerry! Let's hope this starts a Dem Trend!

[wisteria]

9. I am saving this letter. I have a feeling it may come in handy. n/t

[rodeodance]

10. I am glad he hit back!

[rodeodance]

11. read some of the Responses to his article here:--eg: I Feel Your Shame

Reader Responses
Exaggerated Claims of Violence
JOHN KERRY


I Feel Your Shame
Sharon M. Robinson - Fountain Hills, Ariz.

John Kerry has many faults, but the greatest is they he closed his eyes, ears and heart to what followed after the U.S. shamefully pulled out of Vietnam. I suspect it's the only way he can justify his actions during and since that time.

As a citizen of these United States, I still feel the shame and guilt for what was done to millions in the name of my county because of people like John Kerry. What they cannot allow themselves to feel or accept, I do for them--and I'm not alone.......

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/responses.html?article_id=110010427

[Felinity]

12. Alternate Universe?

Damn that John Kerry for starting the war with Iraq and getting all those Iraqis killed too. And he also flew one of the planes on 911.

Precipitous withdrawal, please.

On a more rational note, I believe the final moments of our Vietnam escapade, as shown in the documentary "The Fall of Saigon" were horrific because we waited too long. The longer we drag out this Iraq mess, the worse our exit will be, because the "enemy" is becoming better armed, better trained, and better organized every day.

Though too early for real thinking, it just occurred to me how ironic it is that the Iraqis can't form capable police or military organizations for the puppet government, but they seem to be quite able to form military organizations for the insurgency. What does that tell you?

[frogcycle]

20. thank you

"...how ironic it is that the Iraqis can't form capable police or military organizations for the puppet government, but they seem to be quite able to form military organizations for the insurgency..."


I have been saying this, with little reaction, since day one.


The hubris of people who claim that "they" can't do this or that is infuriating.

We all have the same biological makeup. We all come from the same stock. Sure, there are cultural differences; sure there are various groups who have been deprived of opportunity and may be disadvantaged. So one group's test score may show a pattern vs another, etc. But I recall seeing a photo of an Amazon basin Indian kid - wearing only a penis sheath, working a Rubik's cube. They said he was really good at it. I have NEVER managed to come even close with one of those things.

The Iraqi people are perfectly capable of running their country any way they choose. They could be like ancient Greece, or like Indonesia, or like the US, or like Saudi Arabia, or Israel, or like pre-Columbian Native American tribes. The fact that they have not yet conformed to bushco's demands of how they should organize, what they should do, just proves that colonialism does not work.

Of COURSE they CAN "form capable police or military organizations" - what the hell was that they had under Saddam? It may not have been to our liking, but it was capable. What we absolutely have to do is back away and let them get on with it. It may be ugly, but that cannot be helped.

There is a lesson I learned years ago in a class on motorcycle maintenance and riding tips.

The bike can get into an unstable state, wherein the front wheel is wobbling like a screwed up caster on a grocery cart. It is scary as hell. The instinct is to hold on for dear life and strain to stabilize it. But the harder you pull, the worse it gets, because you have become part of the problem. Your resistance alternately on each handlebar is like dribbling a basketball. The solution, when this phenomenon arises, is to turn loose. It immediately settles down on its own.

[Supersedeas]

13. where is the powdered face chattering class when a real debate takes place!?!

[gratuitous]

14. This evil choice has been created by the architects

Easy to remember, true to the facts, and even a Freep moron can wrap his teeny little brain around it.

[antiimperialist]

15. The furiously right-wing Wall Street Journal is no better than Drudge

And things will not get better now that Murdoch took over.

[mod mom]

16. * is audacious in even bringing up Vietnam. The issue of what he was doing when he should

have been serving there needs to be resurrected.

[spanone]

k&R

[spanone]

17. k&R

[pingzing58]

18. I just checked out the VFW website to see if there was any reaction to Bush's vtnm reference.

The VFW site reports that their National Commander of VFW on Aug. 6, 2007 returned from a trip to Iraq that included joining American and Iraqi soldiers on patrols in downtown Baghdad. What What Gary Kurpius learned from his two-day trip was that "the troops on the ground believe their war is winnable." The web article goes on: “There are many success stories that are happening every day that are not being reported in the mainstream media,” said Kurpius, a Vietnam veteran from Anchorage, Alaska. “Chief among those unreported stories is the fact that the new strategy is producing measurable results.”

-snip-

I was feeling sorry for the VFW (since my Dad, uncles and brother are veterans of foreign wars) but I realize that they are nothing but hook, line and sinker, bushies. Support the troops, yes! Bring them home.

[Ilsa]

26. They don't understand that military might won't matter if there isn't

political reconciliation between the parties in Iraq.

[Xipe Totec]

21. Is there yet another secret presidential playbook to handle this mess? n/t

[donkeyotay]

22. How low and dishonest can the neocons get?

Let's accept the premise that we must stay until victory is achieved. Fine. Let's have a draft, mortgage the still-solvent portion of our country to the defense contractors, and go kill until we achieve peace and democracy in the Middle East. We may have to invade Iran - and Russia and China and the rest of the appalled world might oppose us - but whateverittakes, getherdone whatever "it" is.

Of course, there should be a few concessions for demanding so much from a country that tried to stop this war in the first place. The oil should be surrendered to the Iraqis without conditions as that is probably a sticking point in negotiating between the factions. The war profiteers should be investigated and windfalls taxed, with media/military connections being closely scrutinized to prevent furture war mongering. The president should be impeached for what he has done to our country, and the systematic lies told for this war should be exposed.

This is pure evil. They now hold us hostage - we can stay and escalate a war most of us never supported in the first place, or we can leave and be blamed for the consequences of Bush and the flag-waving Republican crowd's insistence on waging this war for no good reason in the first place. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

[DFW]

23. Lower than any of us can imagine!

[eagler]

25. As long as the dems continue to not support a NEW UPDATED FAIRNESS DOCTRINE

the neocons are going to do whatever they feel, because by and large they are the only voices being heard over most of the airwaves.

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. As a part of that fairness doctrine, I would like to see LTTE pages

like that publish a 1 line disclaimer: "We received 'x' number of letters supporting the response to the article and 'y' number of letters in opposition."

Sure, it's the WSJ, and they had 1 letter supporting Kerry against, what, a dozen or so against? Was that the real ratio of response, or just what they wanted us to see?

[whistle]

28. John Kerry is way too kind to James Taranto who is one RW pig of a

...writer who uses emotional button pushing and whining and hyperbolic rhetoric at every opportunity to hook and stir those dumb enough to read the crap he writes. It is almost never based on fact, only conjecture designed to get a reaction or tug on highly charged emotions. More people like Kerry should just stomp this fucker into the dirt!

[bjobotts]

29. Bet! Why is Bush even mentioning Viet Nam? or Korea? At the VA

instead of "Walter Reed" and the pathetic care of veterans. He didn't even mention it but used the opportunity to advance his Iraq war support message. A military crowd can be counted on for applause and can be lied to and spun more easily as a group than any other Bush has access to. Even getting applause when saying Iraq attacked us on 9/11.
Bush will use any and everything he can come up with to keep us in Iraq and when all else fails he will attack Iran.
Bush has forced our soldiers to fight and die refereeing a civil war while screaming they won't play fair if the referee leaves. Millions have died here and Bush wants to keep it going no matter what the costs.

Bush will only leave Iraq if he is forced to and will use all his power and all the corporate owned press to keep that from happening. He will hold the troops hostage saying "give me the funding I ask for or I'll leave them out there to die". He is using the soldier's safety as blackmail and he must be stopped.
I am writing my congress members to let them know that I know this and am all for shutting the government down if that is what it takes to get Bush to withdraw from Iraq. Bush is using the congressional recess to jump out in front of the war funding show down so congress must know we support them in defunding this occupation no matter what Bush threatens to do. This is when we finally say no matter what...enough is enough.

If this occupation were like the war in Viet Nam then some dissenter would be yelling back at Bush..."What do you have to say about it...you were AWOL and finally just deserted the military in a time of war..the Viet Nam war. Should our soldiers do what you did...desert? How dare YOU even mention Viet Nam?" The nerve of this president and the complicity of the press who won't call him on it. We know what you are. Come on, try to lie out of that one.