Could Air Travel Inconvenience Drive Passengers Back To The Rails?

[Aviation Pro]

Airplanes will always be first in my heart and soul, but my brain is given to transportation as a whole entity and infrastructure. I will vote for any DEMOCRATIC Presidential candidate who supports funding smart transportation technology such as Maglev and smart highways.

Full article here: http://aero-news.net/index.cfm?printable=1&ContentBlockID=e59cc0f4-999a-4b50-9e52-a772600baf32&

Some Say Train Travel More Convenient, Less Expensive... And Less Stressful
In these days of crowded jets languishing for hours on hot tarmacs and irritated passengers growing more irritated at ever increasing flight delays, there are some that have had enough and are returning to the roots of long-distance travel.

No, not sailing ships, or stagecoaches -- trains.

According to the Wall Street Journal, ridership on the nation's passenger rail system is up six percent so far this year -- reportedly the largest leap up since the 1970s. Those kinds of numbers are music to the ears of many at Amtrak... the nation's oft-maligned, arguably ill-funded rail provider.

Amtrak's Acela Express runs a line from Boston to New York to Washington. The number of passengers has jumped 20 percent just in the last 10 months. The Journal says that equals the number of passengers it takes to fill 2,000 757s.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Rail travel is FAR more energy efficient. We should have a national rail program.

But, right now, the airlines, the highways, etc. get the subsidies.

If you support the railroad, you should vote for Biden for President.

[Squatch]

7. And FAR more expensive:

Amtrak: Washington, Union Station to Seattle, Washington and back again: $550 (and 3 travel days)

US AIrways: Washington, Reagan National to Seattle-Tacoma and back again: $190 (and < 1 travel day)

[Aviation Pro]

9. Not doubting your assertion here regarding price....

...but go ahead and book that flight at the end of November and see if your travel time remains less than a day.

[marmar]

10. But I don't think people are really advocating rail for transcon trips....

... like Washington DC-Seattle. It's the shorter trips (Detroit-Chicago, LA-San Francisco, Dallas-Houston, Miami-Orlando) that are air and auto dominated where rail would be an excellent alternative.

[Captain Hilts]

15. The overnights: NYC-Chi, DC-Bost, DC-Atlanta, Atlanta-Houston work well. nt

[Aviation Pro]

11. Also....

...if you have a Maglev capable of 300 knots between city pairs it would be comparable to a 500 knot aircraft that has to land in a Class B airport (most of them are in outlying areas far from anything. Think Orlando International Airport) and requires further transportation to a final destination.

[Squatch]

20. That's why a number of airlines are opting for more regional jets

like the Embraer 145...jets that have long ranges but are better suited at servicing airports in uncontrolled airspace.

The last time I flew to Fort Sill, I flew direct from Reagan National-Dallas-Lawton/Fort Sill. I left the house at 5AM EST, took off at 6AM and finally arrived at my hotel at noon CST (hotel is about 10 miles from airport). Total trip time was 8 hours. The trip from IAD to Dallas was on a 737 and the trip to Lawton was on a Saab 340.

[Aviation Pro]

25. I know of no regional, Part 121 airline that goes into....

...a Class G, untowered airport. If you know one please let me know which one.

[Squatch]

32. Sure...

Moscow-Pullman Regional Airport (PUW)

Serviced by Horizon Air (Alaskan Airlines)

[Captain Hilts]

27. There are huge subsidies for small airports: JohnstownPA, Utica NY. nt

[Aviation Pro]

28. Yep, John Murtha Airport in Johnstown....

...a fine, Class D airport that you can roll bowling balls up and down the runways all day long and not disrupt traffic....lol.

[Captain Hilts]

14. The airlines - and airports - receive far greater subsidies than Amtrak. nt

[Squatch]

34. I'm curious as to how much more...could you post some add'l info?

Thanx!

[Captain Hilts]

46. I know at one point taxpayers subsidized EVERY ticket landing in Utica by $200.

There is the FEd Govt's special small airports program under which places like Johnstown got theirs. Utica is barely an hour from Syracuse and two from Albany.

So, Ronald Reagan's "give them an air ticket" comment about Amtrak was - surprise - pretty ignorant.

[TahitiNut]

35. WAS-SEA Roundtrip ... $308 (coach, without meals or sleeping accom)

Three days there ... leave WAS 4:05 pm 10-SEP-07, arrive SEA 10:20 am 13-SEP-07 ... $154
Three days back ... leave SEA 4:45 pm 24-SEP-07, arrive WAS 1:30 pm 27-SEP-07 ... $154

Clearly, a 'roomette' would make it far more bearable ... at an addtional cost of $254 for the WAS-CHI leg and $599 for the CHI-SEA leg. That added cost can be shared between two persons, so it's more expensive for people traveling alone. But it also includes meals.

Anyone older than 20-something (and in the military?) would probably have a hard time doing three days in a coach seat .. without a shower.

[Deja Q]

40. People travel or freight travel? A TV advert I saw a month ago is almost smug in how

it presents rail travel as being able to ship a lot more goods than trucking for much less gas.

Now trucking isn't as spendy as air flight... :D

[shraby]

2. We need to restore the full train system we had

in the 1900s. I can remember counting over a hundred cars on one train..hauling freight as well as passengers. One source of pollution was the engine as opposed to hundreds of sources in large semis. Much more environmentally responsible.

[Captain Hilts]

3. No more overnight sleeper from DC to Boston! When I come to power, no more...

flying between DC and NYC and between NYC and Boston. You will still be able to fly between DC and Boston, however.

[blues90]

5. I would love to see the old rail systems back in force

Not amtrack but the old rail systems that were separate in name with the vast passenger service we had , it was a great thing .

[marmar]

4. If we had rail transportation to be driven back to......

In Europe, rail is typically the better option because the network is so top-shelf....

Here, :rofl:. .... The busy Detroit-Chicago corridor, which would be an ideal high-speed rail route because the cities are about 240 miles apart, is totally auto and air dominated. There are 3 Amtrak trains a day between the two cities, and the scheduled 5-hour trip is often longer because Amtrak doesn't own the rails and the trains often have to stop and wait while freight trains pass.
And there are 3 trains daily, but well over 40 flights a day on Northwest, United, American and Southwest. It makes no sense.

[Captain Hilts]

16. Only 3 trains a day? Insane! MARC btwn Balt & DC doesn't run on weekends. nt

[marmar]

18. Yeah, I don't get the MARC weekends thing.....

I stopped and visited a friend in Baltimore en route from NYC to DC, stayed over Friday night, and assumed I'd be able to take MARC into Union Station on Saturday..... I ended back on Amtrak!:crazy:

[Captain Hilts]

21. At minimum they should run it when Balt plays DC in football/baseball. nt

[CurtEastPoint]

6. The national rail advocay group is...

The National Association of Rail Passengers. Their mission statement is:

A modern, customer-focused national passenger train network that provides a travel choice Americans want.

http://www.narprail.org/cms/index.php

As someone else noted, Europe has top-notch train services, both government and privately owned.

Why not the US?

Why not maglev between major cities?

Could it be because the powers that be are beholden to the auto/gas/airline industries? Nah!

[shraby]

8. Another thing rail could do

is transport passengers AND their cars to a destination.

[Captain Hilts]

17. YES! More autotrains! And give Starbucks/Krispy Kreme their own dining car. nt

[AlCzervik]

12. when i fly anywhere now i set my expectations to low, if it's better than that

then i've come out ahead. If i were traveling within the state (ca) then i would think about amtraking it.

[Parche]

13. Amtrak

$800 billion to Iraq, and they are trying to cut funding for Amtrak..........
that is a disgrace..........



:hi:

I love both planes and trains

[Captain Hilts]

19. They got rid of individ sleeper compartments. The teensie ones btwn DC-Chi have been gone longer.

[Parche]

22. Superliners

The Superliners still have them......

I sell as much Amtrak as I can


I have written my rep 3times already on Amtrak
Rep David Wu D-OR

[Captain Hilts]

26. The 'singles' on the East Coast have two beds in them.

There used to be the individual compartments where the bad came down from the wall.

Then, on the Chi-DC run there were the small compartments that a half of the bed came out each side of the wall.

I'm glad to know the superliners still know individuals travel. It's a big market for business folks.

[Nikki Stone1]

23. It's like abortion: you don't take away the right (of long distance travel); you just make it a

major hassle or damned near impossible. And you require lots of papers and record keeping.

[krispos42]

24. No

Because for most trips the time an d cost to get someplace is comperable with driving it in your own car. Add in passengers, and car travel is usually cheaper.

For example, going to visit my family in Connecticut is about 21 hour drive or so from the Twin Cities. According to Google Maps, at least. 1288 miles. My car get about 26 mpg on the highway (not that I would take the POS, but just as an example), so that's about 50 gallon of gas or about $150 each way. Throw in a cooler full of Diet Pepsi and sandwiches, a bag of Doritos, and a couple of audiobooks, and I'm ready to roll.

Taking the Amtrack train is $148 and takes 27 hours, each way. And that's just for a seat. Now, I might be tempted to do that all by my lonesome just because I could sleep and read on the train, but I can get an airline ticket round-trip for about $300 and do the trip 3 hours each way, plus an hour for security and such.



If I wanted to sleep in an actual bed, or have some privacy, I'd have to spend an extra $138 for a 2-person "Roomette" for the St. Paul-to-Chicago leg, or $203 for the Chicago-to-Pittsburg run. Ouch.

It doesn't get too much worse for taking my son with me. He's half-fare. It would cost $520 to go to Connecticut for both of us with Roomettes on two legs of the trip.

But it's still twice what a pair of round-trip tickets on Sun Country or Northwest cost. And there is the problem.

I'm not quite sure why it costs so much. Diesel locomotives last forever and are lots cheaper to maintain than an airliner. The speeds are much less than aircraft, so you're fighting less drag. The railways have been there for decades, perhaps over a century. But it is what it is, I guess.

[timtom]

29. Why, I'd be more than happy to fly the airlines

when they roll back the whole thing to about 1962 standards. Stewardesses (sorry, attendants) who smile and are customer oriented...

"Fair dinkum!"

"Ewww! You said a nasty. You're going to jail."

[SoCalDem]

39. In 1975, Air Jamaica had in-flight fashion shows

and Delta & Eastern had fantastic food..

[BlooInBloo]

30. For passenger service, neither can really do the work of the other...

... one is efficient at short distances, the other at long distances.

EDIT: sea/pdx - train makes sense. sea/sd, plane makes sense. There's simply no reason to shoehorn the work of the one into the other.

[B Calm]

31. The only thing I got against trains is

having to wait at a crossing for them to pass.

[B Calm]

33. and low clearances.. I drive an 18 wheeler..

[valerief]

36. Didn't the oil-auto tycoons kill passenger rail? nt

[Captain Hilts]

37. Mass transit, not the railroads so much. They bought up streetcars, etc. nt

[valerief]

38. But mass transit used to be electric cars and the oil-auto kings killed that

relatively inexpensive form of mass transit.

[Captain Hilts]

42. Yes, they did. They wanted to put people in cars. nt

[valerief]

43. So I was right. The oil-auto barons killed the rails not mass transit. nt

[Captain Hilts]

45. No, they killed mass transit. Oil and GM, etc. bought streetcar systems.

In LA they just took the streetcars and piled them up in a field. The new streetcar/subway line follows the one that was dug up.

Washington DC's streetcars are still in use today...in Yugoslavia. You can still see the WTC symbol on them. No kidding.

[valerief]

48. And they killed passenger rail to make way for autos and air travel. nt

[AnnieBW]

41. We need those bullet trains

like Japan and France have. That would significantly increase train traffic.

[JCMach1]

44. or the German ICE that can run on regular and high-speed rail segments...

[Captain Hilts]

47. Yes and no. Current Amtrak trains can go over 100mph. The problem is pop density & track quality

[Babsbrain]

49. The infrastructure needs fixing.

I love rail travel. Tried to go to Northwest Florida but train travel is halted indefinitely to there since Katrina destroyed railbeds. No money to fix them. Sickening to think of all that money going into some politician's or Middle Eastern businessman's pocket instead of into needed repairs here in this country.

[Zech Marquis]

50. I prefer taking amtrak myself

Last month I brought my very first car, a 2007 Honda Civic coupe :-) I love being able to drive anyway and have a very low emissions car that's great on gas. Having said that, when it comes to travelling, I would still prefer going by Amtrak. I shudder at the very idea of driving up to DC and Baltimore, and going on I-64 in Virginia will be another nightmare!

I would lOVE to have more Amtrak service period! Investing in mass transit would be much better than invading some damn country that didn't do shit to us! :nuke:

[backscatter712]

51. It drove me to the roads.

Earlier this month, I took a little road trip to DEF CON in Los Vegas. DEF CON, being a hacker convention, made me a little nervous with regards to airport security - the feds are known to not have a sense of humor about that sort of thing, especially since I had brought with me things like lockpicks and a laptop with stickers on it saying "I miss freedom."

Really, it was worth it for me just to road-trip instead. The drive through the Rockies, the Utah and Arizona canyon lands and through the desert and Joshua trees was spectacular. You can't get that kind of scenery riding an airliner at 35,000 feet.