Why all the hate for the South?

[SIMPLYB1980]

I've been around here for a while, and over that time on a few occasions I've seen where people bash the south and southern Democrats. Normally I ignore them, or try to show that things are different in the South than most peoples first impression. I don't claim to know a lot about the state legislatures in other southern states, but some people may know that after the last election cycle NC state legislature went to the Democrats, and we also have a great Democratic governor Mike Easley, and a Presidential contender in John Edwards, and Jim Webb is way better than George Allan in Virgina. So why the animosity for the South? I would also say the same for anyone bashing on the North, but how often do you hear that here. Southern Democrats need your support. Howard Dean is right about the 50 state strategy, we need your support, and the Democratic party goes whistling past Dixie at its own risk.

[zabet]

1. Let's hear it for the South!!!

Especially NC!!!
:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

[cspanlovr]

2. Hear, hear! I'm glad to see this thread. It hurts to see your friends bad-

mouthing you! I'm a transplant, and there are many of us down here in Atlanta. Its distressing to think we're being overlooked.

[SIMPLYB1980]

3. Thank you both for you kind words.

Go Southern Dems!

[marions ghost]

41. There are a lot of transplants to the South

now. Hopefully it will help change things politically...

People's perceptions are outdated, about some urban parts of the South anyway.

[lastliberalintexas]

90. Not for the better, as you seem to imply

Trust me, the majority of transplants are quite conservative. While I can no longer say this, even 15 years ago I could honestly say that I did not know a native Texas who admitted to being republican. As Molly Ivins? used to say, air conditioning ruined the South.

[marions ghost]

108. Well, I didn't mean to imply better or worse

I'm not sure about the effects of the migrations on voting yet. Yeah like you say many transplants to the South seem to be conservative, especially the business types. But then I'm around many from the West Coast who are progressives. I think it's difficult to tell what that impact is on voting trends in the South. Probably somebody has a handle on it by now. The South is definitely changing. I never thought I'd see ice hockey take off in the south...

I'm seeing a change in some native Southerners. I think a lot of them are feeling skunked by the Rethuglicans. Oh sure there are always diehards, but the Repigs have messed up for a NUMBER of reasons....

Looks like a northerner has kind of damaged Texas as a source of candidates for awhile.

[Nutmegger]

4. R&K

I have relatives in the south fighting the good fight.

It's hard when most of the people around you fear the queers and vote based on that. :( But I believe that if we work hard to get our view across, people will listen.

We can't just leave the south to the pukes.

[aikoaiko]

5. All we have to do is swing 5 - 10 % of the voting pop.

and many southern blue states are red.

[sinkingfeeling]

6. I lived in NC while Jesse Helms ruled the state. Enough said about the past...

glad NC finally woke up to the fact the world isn't just for rich, white, men.

[Benhurst]

Yeah, now we've got Burr and Dole representing us in the Senate.

:argh:

Dole doesn't even bother to answer her mail. But if you write her, she will put you on her mailing list for contributions.

[marions ghost]

44. No way two Repugs truly represent NC

Election Reform.

[BlooInBloo]

7. Yah! What has the south ever done to anybody! Haters!

:rofl:

[Taverner]

8. I don't hate the South

Love the South, but I gotta admit its a foreign culture to me here in California.

They don't understand me when I tell them I'm a "freethinker"

[Extend a Hand]

117. IN MEMORY OF ATHEISTS IN FOXHOLES AND COUNTLESS FREETHINKERS WHO HAVE SERVED THIS COUNTRY

IN MEMORY OF ATHEISTS IN FOXHOLES AND COUNTLESS FREETHINKERS WHO HAVE SERVED THIS COUNTRY WITH HONOR AND DISTINCTION PRESENTED BY THE NATIONAL FREEDOM FROM RELIGION FOUNDATION WITH HOPE THAT IN THE FUTURE MANKIND MAY LEARN TO AVOID ALL WAR

This is from a monument in Hypatia, Alabama
so I think some southerners would understand

http://imgred.com/tn/

[Taverner]

119. Awesome!

The next time I'm in Alabama I WILL VISIT this memorial, and lay flowers down.

I really don't think it's that there aren't freethinkers in the South, it's just that the Christians are more vocal than they are...

[Bluebear]

9. "We can't have ____ in our platform because of conservative southern states"

I want to say this very carefully, because I agree that the south should not be bashed, but on the other hand I am past compromising my beliefs *because* it's "too much" for a particular area, if that makes sense.

Even Edwards, who I like, has a problem with gay marriage, for instance, because he says of his southern Baptist upbringing. i understand it, but that is his problem, not mine.

[BlooInBloo]

14. I'm ok with bashing them, when bashing is deserved....

... which, in their case, is a lot of the time.

But to each his or her own. :)

[Taverner]

85. I agree

No compromise for the South!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

96. Very well put.

I couldn't express the way I felt in words, but you did it beautifully.

[Coexist]

178. Bluebear, I know that line well

I live in Florida, but am almost north enough to be in southern territory.

I actually know and like some people who laugh at the idea of evolution and global warming.

I am their "token tree hugger".

It's a fine line.

[Captain Hilts]

10. Agree with you. But, why is Edwards still in a fight to win his own state? nt

[struggle4progress]

158. Huh? Edwards won the 04 NC caucus (and SC primary) and consistently leads other Dems in 08 polling

for 08 polling see:
http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/north-carolina.html

[On the Road]

11. Regional Bigotry

It's the only socially approved kind. Justified by the South's racial history.

[SIMPLYB1980]

17. The south does not have a monopoly on racist, biggeted, people.

That is what I'm talking about. You act like all of that is systemic in our culture because of the south. Read up on your history of racism and you'll see that there is just as much racism in NY, and CA, as in NC. Why would people flock to the Democratic party when for the last 20 years or longer that if you live in the South you are a racist.

[supernova]

19. Save your pixels Simply

It's a peculiar form of provencialism which doesn't serve us DUers well here.

[IndianaJones]

24. Not a monopoly like Microsoft is not a monopoly. nt.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

28. Don't forget one of the worst race riots

took place in Springfield IL, and that there were numerous Black Laws in that state well into the 20th Century.

I think the reason people remember the South's racism is because of what happened during the Civil Rights movement--especially those trials of KKK men with all white juries.

[BlooInBloo]

40. "remember" it? People *live* it. Sheesh. Damn racism-deniers.

[snappyturtle]

102. Like I just told IndianaJones, the KKK was big in Indiana too! n/t

[Alcibiades]

32. Sorry, but no

I'm a North Carolinian, born in Charlotte, and my family has been southern going back to the late 1600's. I have to disagree a little with your assessment of racism in the south. We had slavery, Jim Crow, and lynchings. Perhaps some Yankees are racist, I'm sure of it, but we do take the prize when it comes to institutionalizing racism.

Not all southerners are rednecks, but we probably have more rednecks than anywhere else in the country. Maybe it does not happen to you, but I do know southerners who still use the N word. That simply does not happen most anywhere else in the country.

That being said, I love the south, recognize that we also have many southerners historically who have fought against racism and other forms of oppression. It may be that some of the "anti-southern" post you see are from Southerners. There's that Jeff Foxworthy self-deprecating sense of humor. I, for one, sometimes make jokes about having sex with my sister, and I think that being a southerner gives me a little moral license to do so. (BTW, I never actually had sex with my sister--she had sex with me.)

[On the Road]

79. I Apologize, SimplyB, My Wording Was Ambiguous

I think it is completely unwarranted, but it is how people rationalize it to themselves. It's still bigotry.

I agree that racism is not appreciably different in the North.

[SIMPLYB1980]

116. Thank you.

No hard fillings.

[coalition_unwilling]

43. And justified by the treason ca. 1861-65. Don't forget that the

South fired first on Fort Sumter.

[Critters2]

173. Exactly. It was treason. Nothing less. nt

[sampsonblk]

146. I would love to have 'regional bigotry' defined...

as somehow separate from the history of the south. Why would anyone hate the south, aside from the history?

[YOY]

12. I don't hate the south...just rednecks...some of the in the North too

What is a redneck? So glad ya asked. A far better comedic definition than any Foxworthy could ever provide: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1704518484132983044&q=Horse+Apples&total=234&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

I knew people like this in my hometown.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlooInBloo]

18. Southern Defense Brigade DEPLOY!!!

Let's *distract attention* from the fact you mention by saying the tried-and-true "BUT THERE'S BIGOTRY IN THE NORTH TOO!!!"

Southern bigot-defending cowards - they think their own evil behavior is ok, AS LONG AS THEY CAN FIND ANYONE ANYWHERE ELSE DOING IT TOO.

What a stirring defense of evil.

:rofl:

[SIMPLYB1980]

29. Just stating a fact that racism is pervasive in the United States.

Not just the South.
http://www.coc.org/index.fpl/1255.html?article=1535

[BlooInBloo]

39. Show me **1** person who EVER said "it's just the South" - Just ONE....

... You can't. You're just engaged in deceitful, mendacious misdirection.

[SIMPLYB1980]

51. And your engaging in being an Assclown.

But hey to each their own. Go about your day disregarding the racism in your area, and I'll fight against it in mine.

[BlooInBloo]

57. Yah - by pointing the finger somewhere else. With friends like you who needs enemies?

[Threedifferentones]

106. Yeah, let's tell it like it is, right? The South is obviously filled

with racists and the worst place to live in America. And don't you know Abe Lincoln fought the Civil War to free the slaves?

Blooinbloo, you are a pretty good troll, but I really am unconvinced even you believe your own BS.

[supernova]

15. Because we ran out of Porn

[jgraz]

54. mmmm....redneck porn

Hot Naked Lesbian MILFs on Concrete Blocks in the Front Yard!

[supernova]

62. SNORT!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'm dying over here! :D

[BlooInBloo]

82. SSSSOOOOOOU UUUEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

:rofl:

[huskerlaw]

16. Mostly, it's generalizations.

And unfair ones, at that. The South, generally speaking, is comprised of red states, so everyone in the South must be Republican. Right?

Being from Nebraska originally, I sympathize. Amazingly, we're not all a bunch of hick-ified, corn-fed, Republican mouth-breathers. Shocking, I know.

It's not fun to be stereotyped. And frankly, it shows the ignorance of the people making the stereotypical statement.

[Aristus]

20. I'm Texas-born to an all-Southern family, but I admit, I've done my share of

South-bashing.

I try to remember the grand old tradition of Southern progressivism; Medgar Evers, Martin Luther King, Jr., Morris Dees and the Southern Poverty Law Center, Mike Pappantonio, John Edwards...I hope they represent the true future of the American South.

[MilesColtrane]

139. It's OK...

... for those of us who live among the idiots to bash them.

I too get tired of being painted as a toothless, Bush loving, cousin lover by those looking for a broad brush.

[northernsoul]

21. Gimme sweet tea, a Faulkner novel, music from Louisiana, and southern cooking

any day of the week!

Oh yeah, gimme some ass-kicking Southern Dems, too!

:kick:

[coalition_unwilling]

48. Give me W.T. Sherman and U.S. Grant any day of the week

[SIMPLYB1980]

53. And just how many Native Americans did your ancestors kill.

And are you prepared to accept your ancestors responsibility for their genocide? "Dawns flame retardant suit."

[IndianaJones]

55. ancestors? the 1960's? nt.

[Tsiyu]

152. Time fer some schoolin'

The Union is hated today, not only for Civil War abuses.

Your buddy Sherman thought the only good Indian was a dead one. Sturgis, Howe, Custer, and many more Union men - with big monuments and towns named after them today - slaughtered entire tribes of human beings, chased them with their women and children and gunned them down, sold them as slaves to fund their army, burned their villages, lied to them and took all of their land.

You want to talk about some Sherman? The South is still full of Cherokee, too. Learn the history of your nation. The TRUE history...



On edit: Sorry. Meant to respond to 48 :blush:

[Critters2]

163. The Trail of Tears removed thousands of Native Americans

from the South, and was the brain child of a southerner--Andrew Jackson. When the Supreme Court ruled the idea unconstitutional, Jackson ordered it done anyway. And I don't recall reading of any Southerners trying to stop it. Indeed, the Southern Methodist Church provided chaplains to encourage the soldiers, in case they should tire of the brutality.

Seriously, did you think you could mention Native Americans in the South and no one would bring up the South's great death march?

Since you need a history lesson yourself, this is a good place to start:

http://www.nationaltota.org/general-info/

[jus_the_facts]

181. That *death march* began in the North more than 100 years earlier....

....the Northerners didn't try to stop it back then either. :think:

[Critters2]

182. No, the trail of tears began in Georgia.

And the Supreme Court, made up of primarily Northerners, did indeed try to stop it. A Southerner serving as President ignored the court (a proud Southern tradition) and killed and removed the Cherokee.

Read your history.

[Tsiyu]

185. All Southerners did this?

The policy of Removal came after gold was discovered in Georgia. Lots of Yankees wanted that gold, too. Many white Southerners helped the natives because they were related. Many Southern people tried to stop Removal.

Northern and Southern people allowed this to happen.

My comment was that invoking Sherman as a hero is wrong and further expounding on someone else's comment about the genocide of Native Americans. And even though Sherman's Indian Wars were fought in the West, Natives know who did what to whom, and the Union is no hero to Natives either.

[Critters2]

186. You strongly implied that the South had no history of genocide

regarding Native Americans. This is patently false. The South is responsible for the Trail of Tears. Stop trying to deny that.

[Tsiyu]

191. You strongly inferred whatever you wanted to infer

Geez Louize i get so sick of posters refusing to use reading comprehension.

And coming up with their own conclusions based on air or whatever you folks are smoking.

Stop. Read. Comprehend....

It was AMERICAN policy to destroy native populations and the South and North and West were involved.

THE POST HAD TO DO WITH SOMEONE CHOOSING SHERMAN AS THEIR HERO.

You need to stop pretending the Trail of Tears was a purely Southern invention. It happened here, but it damn skippy wasn't only Southerners encouraging Removal or benefiting from it. If you believe that, you are the one in denial.

[Critters2]

199. Andrew Jackson pushed for it, insisted on it when the Supreme court

denied him the right to do it, and had help from those along the way in doing it. The Chief Justice was a Southerner, John Marshall of Virginia, but the majority of the justices were Northerners.

You implied that only Northerners committed acts of genocide against Native Americans. Indeed, you assured us that there are plenty of perfectly happy American Indians in the South, untouched by the unpleasantries carried out against them SOLELY by Northerners. Those happy First Nations fortunate enough to live in the South...that is, those whose ancestors weren't forced by Southerners to march to Oklahoma.

Tell me about the happy slaves, again, too please. I'll bet you just loved "Song of the South".

[Tsiyu]

202. My family would die laughing if they could read this thread

Me, a Yankee defending the South :rofl:

You just don't know...

Honey, I was born and raised in Upstate NY. When I moved South as a teen I was tormented and had epithets written on rocks tossed on my property.

Some kids once sailed a beautiful frog gig into my yard that said "n lover" and 'yankee go home." I kept the gig. It was a nice one.

I am certainly the last apologist for the South you will ever find.

Nowhere did I pretend that only Northerners were the only ones who committed genocide. I am a Northerner, dear. :rofl: Also, I think in both my other posts to you, i said it was both North and South did i not? Why are you creating a dillemma where there is none?

My post, once again as this is not getting through for some unknown reason, was in regards to Sherman. How this translated into "Northerners only" in your mind I cannot fathom, but this is the last I'll play the game.

You have given me quite a great chuckle this evening.

thanks :hi: :rofl:

[emilyg]

50. What - no Georgia peaches.?

ImPeach

[lazyriver]

22. Keep up the good fight, Simply. You can't get much farther

north than where I am in Maine but we've got a lot of backward right wingers in this very rural area. I have friends in NC and VA and used to bust on them pretty hard about the politics in their states. However, they were surprised by how many Bush/Cheney '04 stickers they saw around here when they visited me. Each say there are as many, if not more than their home states. That both pisses me off (about my fellow rural Mainers) and brings me hope (that the south seems to be a little more enlightened than 7 years ago). Maine usually goes Blue (though I can't explain Snowe & Collins...sorry to all for that), but you'd never know it by talking to people in my neck of the woods.

[DFW]

23. I must not have been here long enough

No one here has ever gotten on my case for being from the South.
A few hundred other reasons, granted, but never that ;-)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

30. From your handle,

I'll give you my sympathy. How can you stand driving between Ft. Worth and Dallas? It drove my husband to distraction the last time we went to visit his brother. (PS-if I haven't told you before, if you like bars, try TANSSAAFL in Arlington-run by good progressives.)

[DFW]

110. Appreciated, but not necessary

DFW is just my home airport (I actually live closer to Love Field).
I have never in my whole life been to Ft. Worth, believe it or not!
I'm just up the road from downtown Dallas, but have been stationed
in Europe pretty much full time since 1979, and am now station chief
for Europe for my little group. So, I speak German, French, Italian,
Russian, Dutch and Spanish as much as I speak English these days.
I commute between Düsseldorf and Brussels far more often than I commute
between downtown Dallas and DFW airport.

Europeans don't differentiate between Southern Americans and Northern
Americans any more then we would think to ask a Frenchman first off if
he were from Bretagne or Provence. When they do find out I'm from Texas,
they make a remark about Bush, of course, but when I tell them where I
stand on our least-liked resident, they're cool with it, and it frankly
helps their overall impression of Texas to learn that we're not all right-
wing robotic followers of Boy George.

[qdemn7]

118. Driving?

Driving between Ft Worth and Dallas isn't a problem, it's once you get INTO Dallas that the problems start. Drivers in Dallas are absolute maniacs, especially on 635.

[hfojvt]

25. How can you call that the South?

It's NORTH Carolina.

I'm from the South. I was born in SOUTH Carolina and grew up in SOUTH Dakota. So why don't y'all just go back to beantown ya Yankee NORTHerner? :P :sarcasm:

[SIMPLYB1980]

36. LoL!

I guess I could be confused with with a Yankee NORTHerner, till I open my mouth. We got quite the southern twang here in Gaston County.:hi:

[Hissyspit]

26. Speaking as a Southerner, raised mostly in the South, and currently living in the South

I mostly don't have problem with calling the South out on it's imperfections, as should be done for all regions of the country. Overgeneralizations and stereotypes are damaging (and there's a lot of that on this forum), but the South has a lot to atone for and it has not done nearly enough to do this in many ways. There is still a lot of WILLFUL ignorance down here.

[Alcibiades]

35. I agree

This is especially true of southern rich white people. Though most of the stereotypes are about coon dog-owning trailer folk, most of the real damage in the south has been done in the interests of rich white folks, some of whom still have all that plantation money earned by the people they owned.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

27. My husband is a sixth generation Texan

and I'm from Illinois. We live in Arkansas.

Having lived in the North and the South, I can say that the Southern culture and mores is very different from the North. I think it would behoove Dems to study the differences. Yes, there is an arrogant, racist attitude that can be found amongst a minority of Southerners (and this is something that the majority of Southerners I know loathe). But there is also a progressive attitude that goes along with many Democratic ideals. This is where we can reach out to Southerners and make gains. That North Carolina has turned blue shows that it can happen. I expect to see Arkansas (with a Dem governor, Dem senators, and 3/4 of Congressmen Dem) to vote for the Democratic candidate for President, especially if he/she has a progressive platform that benefits the working class.

[marions ghost]

71. After the Rethuglican reign of terror

and abuses, there is big opportunity to make gains in the South IMO.

Southerners are loyal but not THAT loyal. Many of them CAN tell when they've been slimed. They can tell when the party they voted for has gone too far (like, off the cliff). Old-fashioned Southern anger smolders beneath the surface and can be expressed in sudden reversals. A lot have given Dubya the heave-ho mentally. There will be stay-homes and defections to the Dems.

I have a little town that I watch socio-politically in the South. It's where my Dad comes from, so I can follow all the gossip. This place is my touchstone for truth about the small-town/rural Southern political winds...it hasn't failed yet. I saw the swing to the right there long before 2000.

Now there are nothing but "crickets" from a lot of big Bu*h supporters in town. One of the biggest local mouthpieces for the Rethuglicans (insufferable but influential) has gone back into her crypt. I'm actually hearing others mentioned--Edwards (especially men), or Hillary (especially women), or Obama (especially young adults). (Kucinich not, but of course he hasn't had the media exposure in these parts, nor have the other candidates).

My left foot tells me worms are turning and pigs are flying down South...many Southerners seem to be focused on "WHO CAN can us out of this mess??"--just like the rest of the country.

[skiddlybop]

31. Sorry, but the radical right

demonizes Massachusetts, Vermont, New York and California all day long.

Did anyone in the Democratic Party ever say that his own state was full of traitors and faggots? Mitt Romney did.

Did anyone in the Democratic Party ever call for terrorist attacks on the South? No. Bill O'Reilly did.

You are mistaking big time who actually victimizes the south. Did Democrats want to rebuild New Orleans? Did Bush do it or send truckloads of money to Republican contractors?

Someone's missing the point.

[SIMPLYB1980]

60. I understand that the radical right demonizes Massachusetts.

I think its horrible the way the radical right talk about all liberals in general. But you don't see Southern Democrats attacking Northern Democrats for the fact that they are from the North, but you do see Democrats from outside of the South that relish in basing Southerner's and Southern Democrats. Not just the racist which I do not deny that we have.

[mitchtv]

134. sorry to say you are right

but as a gay I have no use for southern democrats who will vote to enshrine discrimination into the constitution, AS, I have no use for northern dems like that either. the homophobia is however more pronounced and virulent in Dixie.More "religious" I guess

[rudy23]

33. If many Dems could resist the need to South bash, we'd run the country for the next 50 years

I understand the mainstream culture here is a bit more conservative than in other places, but it's more complex than many people want to admit.

Think of it this way--many of us down here have had to fight the mainstream to hold on to our ideals. We're battle-tested!

Think Stephen Colbert and REM, not Strom Thurmond and David Duke (or actually, think about all of them, we deserve to be criticized like every other culture--as long as you realize you're making a blanket generalization when you do it.)

[dbt]

34. We've had a hell of a lot wose than this to deal with.

People (especially DLC DIMcrats) wanta hate on the South, we'll just go somewhere and light up a big one, drink some tea and take a nap til it blows over. Which it ALWAYS does.

Sooner or later, they ALL get tired of waiting for us to change and--thank Faulkner--just GO AWAY.

[Vodid]

37. I shudder when I hear so-called progressive...

Progressive talk show hosts using what they consider to be a Southern accent, as an illustration of ignorance and stupidity. This is quite common, and I've heard it from several liberal/progressive talk radio hosts...Mike Malloy comes to mind, for one. Do they really think this is going to make ANYONE from the South more open to their message? Or maybe they are just being stupid and shortsighted, not realizing how offensive this is to anyone who speaks with a Southern accent, or lives in the South, or has family ties in the South. That's a LOT of people! Sometimes I wonder if the liberal talk show hosts who do this so casually realize how much it negates whatever liberal/progressive ideas they are attempting to promote, and how much damage they are doing to progressive causes. There are a lot of people who speak with a Southern accent, and many of them are solid progressives; but for those Southerners who are trying to figure out where they are on the political spectrum...I can tell you this, they know for damn sure that they are not going to subscribe to the political ideas of someone who is making fun of them and portraying them as ignorant. Jeez, this is so obvious, that I'm surprised I haven't already read it from someone else. I guess I'm just more of a lurker than a poster.

[SIMPLYB1980]

63. Great post.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Prophet 451]

38. Few reasons

And, admittedly, it's mainly guilt by association:
1: The South gave us W, Cheney, Rove and Tom DeLay. In fact, the South seems to specialise in bugfuck insane conservatives.

2: Fundementalism and Rapture theology started in the South. In fact, the entire Religious Reich with all it's attendant sub-cults, started as a Southern thing.

3: Southerners very, very often give the impression that they consider themselves more "American" than the rest of you (I'm a Brit so it doesn't apply to me). There's this stereotype of Southerners as rugged, humble, pious "True Americans" and certainly more authentically American than anyone in the North. In many ways, it's like the South still bears a huge grudge over Reconstruction and still has it in for the North. Personally, I think Jesusland should go ahead and secede and this time, the North would be wise to let them.

4: There's a certain "take no bull" mentality which usually translates into "punch first, forget the questions" (I base this on visiting parts of the South and the published works of Molly Ivins).

5: Electoral college votes weighted in such a way as to give the South far more influence than it's population warrants.


That isn't to say that Southern Democrats shouldn't be supported. In fact, they very much should be in hopes of reversing the above but it would be nice to see a President who hadn't firmly alligned himself with the South or Mid-West. Look at where the political power players have been from (or the areas they have adopted as their home) for the last twenty years and it's disproportionatly Southern. Hell, for much of W's first term, the President, VP and Speaker were all from the same state!

[zippy890]

49. yeh

'bugfuck insane conservatives' :rofl:

can only come from the south

its the bug factor ya see

:rofl:

sorry, that just hit me so funny, and true.

good other poinst. The electoral college does weigh in too much toward the south.

[snappyturtle]

99. I don't know where you and reply #38 are getting your numbers so

I suggest you might take a look that these two websites.

www.fec.gov/pages/elecvote.htm Electoral votes by state

www.factmonster.com/pka/A0004986.html Population by state (2005)


I compared a few states poplation with the number of designated electoral votes.


Here are a representative few:


Rhode Island--pop. 1 million with 4 electoral votes.............1 electoral vote/250K population
Vermont--pop. 623,000 with 3 electoral votes....................1 electoral vote/207K population
Massachusetts--pop. 6 million with 12 electoral votes...........1 electoral vote/500K population
New York---pop. 19 million with 31 electoral votes..............1 electoral vote/612K population
New Hampshire--pop. 1.3 million with 4 electoral votes..........1 electoral vote/325K population


Georgia--pop. 9 million with 15 electoral votes.................1 electoral vote/600k population
South Carolina--pop. 4 million with 8 electoral votes...........1 electoral vote/500K population
Tennesee--pop. 6 million with 11 electoral votes................1 electoral vote/545K population
Texas--pop. 22.9 million with 34 electoral votes................1 electoral vote/673K population
Virginia--pop. 8 million with 13 electoral votes................1 electoral vote/615K population


Maine and New Hampshire are the same; North Dakota and Vermont are the same......so do you think the South is over blessed with electoral votes? The whole system is crazy to me but I did my best to get these answers. Edit: The blessed states are ND,SD,WY,VT,NH,ME....none of which are Southern.

[Prophet 451]

159. OK, conceded

I'll withdraw that one.

[Elwood P Dowd]

52. W, Cheney, and Rove are not southerners.

W is from Connecticut, Cheney from Wyoming, and Rove is from Colorado.

[Prophet 451]

95. But they present themselves as Southern n/t

[coalition_unwilling]

56. Don't forget that the South fired first in the U.S. Civil War -n/t

[SIMPLYB1980]

64. Yes and Northern troops raped southern women.

Whats your point.

[coalition_unwilling]

66. I was responding to the post "Few Reasons" and adding a

reason. Want more specifics? In firing on Fort Sumter, those who fired were committing treason. Is it fair to accuse the south of treason? I guess you will have to decide. That's my point.

[Prophet 451]

98. True enough, but...

...The massive cultural divide between North and South seems to owe less to the Civil War and more to Reconstruction. Mix that into the traditional rural resentment of city folk (capitalised on by the Populist Party).

[Posteritatis]

112. So what crimes did your great^nth grandparents commit?

While there's plenty of reasons I don't like that chunk of the States much, sins of the father's father's father's father's father's fathers is a bit too silly to add to the list.

[lastliberalintexas]

93. Mr. Brit, Rapture theology began in Britain of all places

John Nelson Darby, a deflocked British priest/preacher of some kind, invented the End Times/Rapture BS in the mid 1800s. Maybe he was from Southern England...


The North gave us George Herbert Walker Bush, Prescott Bush, Alfonse D'Amato, Mitt Romney, just to name a few. "Liberal" California gave us Ronald Reagan (tho he was a transplant, but if Texas is going to get blamed for GW Bush...) and Richard Nixon, just to name a few. Need I go on?


The electoral college lottery was actually won by the sparsely populated Western states. So when does the Montana bashing begin? :)

[Prophet 451]

97. Ok, in order...

Darby was indeed English but that's largely irrelevant. In the US, the Rapture stuff first took hold in the South (see "Battle For God", Karen Armstrong). If you'd like an apology from the Brits for Darby, you got it but you lot have to take some of the blame for taking the nut seriously.

Yep, there are just as many egregious politicos from the North but in the last couple of decades, far more have been Southern. Entertainingly batty for sure although in comparison to Jr. George HW looks like a saint. Incidently, I've met quite a few Texans. GW might have been from Conneticut but in attitude, he's a carbon-copy of the majority of Texans I've ever met.

If you'd like me to bash Montana, I can do so. I'll dispute the electoral college stuff and the admitted faults of the North still don't outweigh that annoying "we're more authentically American" attitude (although it's difficult to think of ANYTHING that could be as annoying as that). In many ways, the original question reflects that attitude. The question of "why do you hate the South?" inherantly assumes that the South should be liked, even loved. Disliking or being indifferent to it is the attitude held as noteworthy, out of teh ordinary. It's not "Here's why you should like us", it's "why don't you big meanies like us?".

[marions ghost]

103. Good points

I'm gonna look up that Darby character...


I think we should ALL bash WYOMING the absolute MOST because it gave us DARTH!!! :eyes:

[hogwyld]

140. And don't forget this little gem of the south

Every American should be armed to the teeth with automatic weapons and nukular bombs. Their blind allegience to the NRA is what the pukes rely on.

[Prophet 451]

160. That might be unfair

I'm not sure militarism is specifically a Southern thing. From this side of the Atlantic, the entire USA seems exceedingly militaristic. Granted, however, that the obsession with having firepower over and above being able to actually use it properly seems to be a Southern thing.

Also, what the hell is with the American NRA? I was a target shooter for much of my life (until my government went nuts and banned all handguns) and I still hunt. Here, the NRA exist largely to promote safety and put shooters in contact. Say you move to a new area, want to find a local club, you ring the NRA. They only get involved in politics when it directly affects shooters (i.e. they fought - and lost - the handgun ban). In the US, your NRA seems to have fingers in everything and actively aids the Republicans in getting elected.

[K8-EEE]

42. Don't hate the South & voting Edwards BUT.....something that irks me....

Here's something that irks me about politics and the South. That is this perennial idea that "Southerners won't vote for a New Englander" or "you need to have a Southerner on the ticket to win." That pisses me off. I agree with Bill Maher, New England is the birthplace of America, not Texas or Florida! Plus, sorry but there's a lot of asshole Bushites and W stickers down there.

I'm a Southern girl - Southern CA that is!

[nealmhughes]

113. Virginia is the birth place of English speaking America. Then Maryland,

then the Carolinas. The Yankees were still slaughtering Pequots and eating dirt and rocks when we had a House of Burgesses. . .

The old Whig History paradigm of "New England as founder of America" was developed in the post-Civil War Yankee bastions of Yale and Harvaahd. By that model, the "declension model," NE was perfected and went slowly downhill but not before inculcating the roots of literacy, universal human rights, witch hunting, and Quaker hanging to the rest of the slaveocracy South, who evidently were busy 24/7 drinking juleps and having their wigs powdered to do anything trying like reading a book.

Witness this snip from Jack Greene: " Some scholars, notably Jack Greene, have argued on the other hand that the Chesapeake society of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries was far from a 'peripheral, much less a deviant area' and instead was 'in the mainstream of British-American development'".(http://www.southernspaces.org/contents/2004/thomas/2b.htm).

No one living today in the South has any personal responsibility for chattel slavery's development -- and by the way, it was aided and abetted by Northerners until the 1810s and the great shipping fortunes of NE were based on the Triangular Trade from NE to the Indies and Africa. Where were the rum distillaries? Who insured the lives of slaves? Not Richmond or Nashville, it was Hartford, NYC and Boston.

However, the entire country has a burden in alleviating the pain that chattel slavery caused as we do all trying our damnedest to lift as many inequities as we can.

Do Southerners hold witch hangings over Yankees heads? Peine fort et dure for those who would not plea? Hardly! We are content at having our ears flinch at a nasal whine and scoff at the beauty of NE's notoriously productive fecund valleys of stone and pebble.

This is written firmly tongue not in cheek, by the way. I have no control over my ancestry. None. Believe it or not, I had no choice in the matter nor in where the adults chose to raise me, nor in the dominant culture there prevailing.

By the way, my family was in Henrico County VA in 1610, we were the first settlers of Perquimans County NC in the 1640s and lost an ancestor on a British prison ship in Charleston Harbor during the Revolution. We then pioneered the Tennessee Valley of Middle Tennessee and Northernmost Alabama. And according to the census records, we never owned any human "property." None. Zip. I reckon we just paid our taxes, grew our backy, corn and cotton and raised our hogs and got along right well with our kin folks and neighbors.

Provincialism is ridiculous, worst even than nationalism, rooted in half-truths and melodrama. I have lived, worked and studied in NE, Idaho, Florida, Tennessee, Alabama, NYC and Europe. Guess what, people were pretty much the same everywhere. Without fail. Matter fact, I made better friends in NYC faster than anywhere else I have lived!

It is 104 F right now, it is bone dry and I feel like a toddy, so adieu fair Yankee reader for now, yr. humb. et obd. svt.

[Warren Stupidity]

45. I thought we hated She Who Must Be Nominated.

Now I'm really confused. Please let me know what my hate object is for tomorrow.

[SIMPLYB1980]

69. Tommarow it will be whatever I decide to post on I guess.

Can I not be equally upset about all the hate for Hillary Clinton, and the South. Maybe I'll post on self loathing Democrats.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndianaJones]

47. lol. careful there. nt.

[dbt]

58. No, that ain't the South sucking. it's the wind blowing toward the NORTH.

How you like that?

[JVS]

59. If the wind is blowing toward the North, it's because the South BLOWS

If the wind is headed South it's because the South SUCKS!

[dbt]

61. You'll notice there ain't any "Northern Comfort."

[JVS]

76. We don't need it. We already live somewhere good enough not to need strong drink

[Elwood P Dowd]

65. This thread has brought out the most hateful group on DU -

the southern bashers. I'm sure Howard Dean would be proud.

The entire thread should be deleted.

[IndianaJones]

67. I beg to differ on that. nt.

[Elwood P Dowd]

70. You're so full of hate and bigotry aimed at southerners, that's what I would expect of you.

When I was drafted in the US Army, the most bigoted person in my basic training unit was from Indiana. He bragged that his father was a member of the KKK.

[IndianaJones]

74. lol. one time...at band camp. nt.

[snappyturtle]

101. Really, I was surprised too. I'm a native Hoosier and I about died

when I saw a program on tv.....big KKK in Indiana.

[marions ghost]

75. No it should be aired...

you can't get rid of South-bashing by pretending it doesn't exist.

Of course it's a divisive subject. :shrug:

[IndianaJones]

77. South bashing? now I've seen it all. nt.

[marions ghost]

88. sure --South-bashing

is alive and well. Spectator sport.

This is obviously a reasonable topic for discussion, but it's one that somebody has to referee....

[Prophet 451]

161. There is a difference between bigotry and criticism

I work with fundementalist Christians much of the time. This reminds me very strongly of their habit of screaming "persecution!" when called on their bad behaviour. It also sounds like the tendancy of some Americans to claim anti-Americanism when someone outside the US points out how bad US foreign policy has been for the last twenty years.

In other words, you aren't disputing that the points raised are accurate, you're attacking us for raising them.

[hedgehog]

68. It is a perceived characteristic that Southerners extol their region to the

detriment of other regions. Such perceived boasting is offensive to New Englanders and Midwesterners because boasting is discouraged in their culture. Midwesterners have a wry appreciation of themselves as epitomized by Garrison Keillor. They tend to be quiet. New Yorkers move fast, talk fast and are brusque in day to day exchanges. Neither group engages in the lavish politeness associated with Southern culture, so many Southerners suggest that they aren't neighborly. This just isn't so, so the accusation causes resentment.

[Individualist]

72. Some people are attempting to continue the Civil War

[carolinayellowdog]

73. Stereotyping, scapegoating, misplaced concreteness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_misplaced_concreteness

Several factors make me love the South (as a place) and loathe "the South" as an abstraction because of how it has become a target of mindless hate. People tend to like simple us/them polarizations that allow them to focus hate and blame anywhere but towards themselves. Southern DUers really experienced hell here in the months following the 2004 election. No one blamed any of the states with hugely lopsided Republican margins, like Utah and Idaho. Instead they blamed "the South" where the margins were much smaller and where Democrats have made major gains of late.

People stereotype because dehumanizing others makes it that much easier to attack them without remorse. People scapegoat because it's easier to focus blame and hostility on a weak and vulnerable target than on a strong and frightening one. (Southerners cost us the election, not Republican fraud, and Southern DUers need to be constantly attacked for it.) And they apply the fallacy of misplaced concreteness because it's just too confusing to sort out the details of the pieces that make up the whole.

[marions ghost]

80. Well said....

THIS MAP IS HELPFUL TO SEE IT VISUALLY--

This is a map of the United States, showing election results for every presidential election from
1960 through 2004:

It's an animated GIF so you have to wait for each map to change. (You can make it larger if you want)

KEY:

Dems--Blue
Republicans--Red
Other--Green

GO TO:
http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/

[SIMPLYB1980]

128. Nice link.

Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

[TwilightGardener]

78. The South holds the rest of the country hostage, because they

will only vote for a whitie with a Southern accent. They HAVE to have someone who's exactly like them, no Yankees or Midwesterners need apply--thus we either lose elections or are forced to accomodate their childish wishes by putting up a Southerner. End of story.

[marions ghost]

92. "the South holds the country hostage..."

:rofl:

[TwilightGardener]

100. As far as Presidential elections go, it's true. Look at all the calculations

that go into putting together a ticket SPECIFICALLY to appeal to the South. Plenty of Southerners on here insist that Obama can't win in the South because he's black. Or that Edwards should be the nominee BECAUSE he's Southern, because apparently that's a big selling point for folks who can't see voting for anybody who doesn't look or sound exactly like their good-ol-boy selves. Hey, you all should be proud of how you've dumbed down the political process, it's certainly a powerful(ly stupid) voting bloc you have down there.

[Critters2]

167. I agree. And I'm tired of it, too.

Catering to racism and xenophobia is no way to run a nation.

[Bryn]

81. Paging Skinner

I am Southerner, a liberal, a free thinking person. I am so tired of Southerners being painted with one brush. You should add rule...no more bashing the Southerners. Even Cheney, Bush, are NOT REAL Southerners.

The message is for Skinner, not for OP

[marions ghost]

83. Nothing is outside DU rules here....

I've seen much worse bashing.

Let people have their say. Don't try to shut it down. Not a good way to go.

We get to defend, as long as it stays civil.

[BlooInBloo]

84. Yah! No matter WHAT happens down there! Never bash our great great heritage!

Unless you want to be a race-traitor, that is. (It's really not that bad.)

If only southerners would spend MORE time removing the REASONS for their broad-brush characterization, than simply bitching about it. They're kinda like the Catholic Church in that regard. (double zing, bonus points)

[marions ghost]

89. OK what do you want

self-flagellation?

Do you think there are many people here who are taking up for racism??? :crazy:

Check out this map--Don't you see RED all over this country?

http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2006/

[Bryn]

105. who is bitching here?

why are you so threatened by us the Southerners and our great, great Southern heritage?

:eyes:

[snappyturtle]

91. Agreed. This is most divisive....what purpose does it serve?

There are good points and bad points about every region in the country. Let's not let our opinions become a destructive tool to our party. We have more in common than we have differences....now play nice! Let's focus on 2008 and get this country turned around.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

86. Cuz it's so damn hot. Although, we are having a heat wave up here. . .

[wildbilln864]

87. Well said SIMPLYB!

Upstate SC here. We're not all jebus freaks and idiots! Thought I must admit we have our share! :shrug:

[eridani]

94. The "South" is no longer a geography thing

The White Man's Party thing is now dispersed throughout the entire country. Actual geographically southern states have been making quite a bit of progress in getting away from the old "South". And in states with non-southern majorities, people are getting way too careless about ignoring the "South" in their own back yards, IMO.

[Jack Sprat]

104. I don't think people hate the South, at all.

They hate some of the backwardness of the
South. So do I, and I am southern. Yet,
"they" and you and I and everyone else knows
that there are backward people in every region
and that the South has no monopoly on poor
English or backward thinking. In fact, it
might be better overall if we did, since
it would be confined to just one region.
I have lived most everywhere across the
country and do not become sensitive when
I see a bad comment about another region.
You shouldn't either. It is mostly
frustration and not meant personally to
North Carolina or anyone else.

[Hamlette]

107. it would help if you would even consider voting for a President who is not from the South

or dropped the confederate flag. And then there is this:

http://www.fuckthesouth.com/

[smirkymonkey]

121. That's hysterical!

:rofl: (a little too heavy on the profanity, but otherwise very funny)

[carolinayellowdog]

122. Who is the "you" you're addressing?

I get the feeling that a lifelong Democrat black lesbian from Louisiana is one of the blameworthy THEM, while a rabid rightwing white male Republican plutocrat from New Jersey is one of US, whenever people on DU start up with that "you Southerners" business. All the evil is on one side of the Potomac, all the good on the other.

Presidents not from the South who were hugely popular in the South: Roosevelt, Kennedy, Reagan. Presidents from the South who had to struggle for Southern votes: Johnson, Carter, Clinton. So the Southerners who would never consider voting for a non-Southerner haven't been around much in the 30s, 40s, 60s, 70s, 80s, or 90s. Don't think any stats show our home boy Edwards with a huge advantage down here this time. Which Clinton and Obama fans like to keep pointing out.

[SIMPLYB1980]

130. As I have said in other posts.

I haven't decided who I'm voting for yet. Like most of the people I know I'll wait till closer to the primary to decided. I will say I am prepared to vote for any Democratic nominee. I can't force republicans not to fly the confederate flag, but I can tell you no Democrats around here do.

[hogwyld]

141. That's hilarious!

Especially the part about their blind allegience to the 2nd amendment.

[TwilightGardener]

172. As a native Pennsylvanian, that rant was so fucking satisfying and funny!

[Hamlette]

187. it's been around for awhile, its a true gem

I thought there was another one with more about the 2004 election, something about even considering voting for someone who didn't come from the South but either I misremembered or I couldn't find it.

There was also a great rant about the protests to the art show The Proper Way to Display the Confederate Flag. It was on a blog I think but I've looked and looked. He went into the whole history of the civil war (no, it was not about states rights, except in the sense the south wanted to keep slavery) and how it was an act of treason.

If anyone finds either of those, let me know. I've googled myself blind.

(To Southerners, yes, we know there are good decent people who live in the South its just that so many of the others give it a bad name we just need/deserve to rant from time to time. Let us blow it off and instead of taking us on just keep reminding us (so we don't forget) there are good decent people who live in the South.)

I read Master of the Senate (great read) about Lyndon Johnson's years in the Senate. The racism is palpable. I remember when we kicked out the southern delegations at the dem convention because they won't allow blacks. I was quite young but my family was pretty political (Dem) and it was a big, long awaited deal. If you want a taste of what politics was like when racism was in control, pick up that book. Tells you more about who we are (were?) than it does about Johnson although Johnson comes off as a fascinating man.

[Critters2]

177. "You had to have your fucking orange juice."

:rofl:

[zanne]

109. It's not the South--it's the politics.

But things are getting better.

[pinto]

111. Just a generic reminder to all members - re: region of residence.

Do not post messages that are bigoted against (or grossly insensitive toward) any person or group of people based on their race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion, lack of religion, disability, physical characteristics, or region of residence.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

Thanks, all, for your consideration.

:thumbsup:

[Elwood P Dowd]

114. "Do not post messages that are bigoted against......region of residence."

Thank you!

[treestar]

155. People violate the religion one all the time

I've seen many a post making fun of people who believe in any religion.

I'd hate to think we can't make fun of the Rapture Ready board! I like those threads. :rofl:

[treestar]

165. I've seen some place of residence bashing

Regarding Miss South Carolina.

I just don't see that as offensive, though. At least, not enough to censor out. Though that may be because I live in Delaware, which is too nondescript even for bashing.

[RB TexLa]

115. Because of the people that live here?

It's pretty simple, really.

[symbolman]

120. if anyone has had to endure the Legal System in the South

As I have, they can tell you why the South can be absolutely Medieval in its dealings..

They enslaved me, as well as others for being from the North, and/or a Liberal..

And they'll gladly eat their own as well - take a look at what they did to Siegelman, Karl Rove played the South like a banjo - installing Supreme Court members in Alabama, which had a direct effect on me.

Baldwin County in AL created the Template for stealing elections electronically, brutally Stealing 6500 votes for Rielly that didnt even EXIST in a voting bloc, and blaming it on lightning strike- they kicked out all the media and everyone else one night to do it.. Siegelman went to bed knowing he'd the Govenorship, and woke up the next morning as the loser..

Absolutely Corrupt down there and I have the scars (psychelogically at least) and the empty bank account to prove it.

Not arbitrally bashing the South, these are just the facts, I thoroughly detested each day I lived there.. Only the black people seemed to me to be decent towards others and trustworthy..

Sorry about that, but you can KEEP the South..

[cordelia]

136. Arbitrally (sic) bashing the South. . .

And you can KEEP out of the South if we're all that vile. Again with the broad brush.

[symbolman]

138. my fucking pleasure

broad brush? That's exactly the way I as treated there..
if I never go back it will be too soon. They treat people like shit there, that's why they all live in fear and paranoia. The denial and ignorance is astounding - the only place I've ever experienced raw hate, and I've been all over the planet..

Thanks for the offer, it's a deal :)

[carolinayellowdog]

148. Where's the line? Maryland US, Virginia THEM?

My family is mostly north of the Potomac but I'm not. Are they morally superior to me? Would you visit my sister but disdain visiting me?

[Greylyn58]

123. Hear! Hear! and a big Amen!!!

I am also a NC native, born, and mostly raised here. I live in Charlotte and we went very blue in the last elections. I'm tired of a segment of DU cracking on southerners.

We have a lot to be proud of and there are plently of Dems working hard to make our states blue. A little help couldn't hurt.

[defendandprotect]

124. We should set the South -- and especially Southern women -- FREE --

The South has always been under informed and under the thumb of the man --

And Southern women need to be freed ---

Racism has worked not only to oppress people of color but poor whites --

[defendandprotect]

125. Laughter is liberating and I think the "red neck" comedians . . . .

have done a lot to try to educate their fellow Southerners about the reality of the South and

helping them to think their way out --

Busting the Southern propaganda, mindset --

[cynatnite]

126. Really? I'm enslaved? By whom?

Man? Hmm...thanks for letting me know. I had no idea. :shrug:

[defendandprotect]

127. Well, let's see. . . a system of Segregation existed for more than 100 years . . .

do you think that had no impact on Southern social order -- Southern society -- communities --
individuals -- ??????

[yurbud]

129. yep--and Edwards is one way to do it. If he aint on the top of the ticket, he should be VP

He was the one who wanted to keep fighting after election day in 2004.

My only regret is that he didn't wrestle Kerry to the ground before he could concede.

[frustrated_lefty]

131. You, and I mean all of you, left New Orleans to die.

The noise you make right now is piss in the wind. Save a life, make this world better. Otherwise, you're just shaking your own chain. And, frankly, I'm tired of that kind of self-indulgence.

[ruiner4u]

132. cause The South will Rise Again...

they are afraid...


:scared:

[Blackhatjack]

133. Southern States Will Play An Important Role In The 2008 Presidential Election...

And there are many Democrats living in Southern States Today who are often ignored by the MSM.

The South is ready to vote for the Democratic Presidential Candidate. It would be a mistake for 'strategists' to 'write off the South.'

Southern living must be pretty attractive to a lot of people considering the number of them who are relocating to Southern States.

[Bluebear]

135. Well, they have played an 'important role' in many elections.

Not all good roles. Just sayin'.

[Blackhatjack]

137. It just means we cannot afford to ignore the South if we want to win...n/t

[treestar]

142. What hate for the South?

I don't see that on DU.

When I was in the South going to college, I ran across a lot of hate for the North. It was surprising.

[carolinayellowdog]

151. Let's compare notes on north/south prejudice

I'm a Virginian with NC family roots, went to HS in Michigan, college in Louisiana, graduate school in Ohio and Alabama. I never was attacked for being a Southerner up North, nor did I ever hear any serious anti-northern rhetoric in the South. Racism was about equal everywhere from what I could tell; I think VA/NC are friendlier than MI/OH or LA/AL in terms of race relations.

As for not seeing hate for the South on DU; I never encountered it in all my travels outside the South but have been shocked and horrified at it here (not consistently but as a dragon that awakens every so often and belches flames.) So much so that I'm about to take a long and perhaps permanent vacation after being here almost daily for five years. I favor Edwards because he's the most populist viable candidate, not because he's from the South. But anti-South and anti-Edwards are getting intertwined in an ugly way here that is only going to get worse. So soon it'll be "bye y'all" but I'd like to know what prejudice you enoountered.

BTW Michiganders and Ohioans are prejudiced against West Virginia and Kentucky but not Virginia from everything I heard. Virginians generally like New Englanders more than Mid-Atlantic folks or Midwesterners in my observation so the "anti-Yankee" thing is a real misnomer.
But your mileage obviously varied so I'm curious if you don't mind sharing.

[Beerboy]

143. I think it's because a self-anointed 'intelligentsia' claimed

to be more informed about America, as if the opinions of those in the South don't matter.
We in the North can build endless millions of cannons and ammunition and ships and fighters and bombers and intercontinental ballistic missiles w/MIRV.
The United States is so weak, only the citizens of the former 'Confederate States' can salvage what remains for a society not worth defending.

[Beerboy]

144. I didn't hate the South

until I saw John Edwards pretend to be a self-sufficient Southerner. Edwards is just trying out some political schemes, who could blame him? His numbers are in the toilet where all toilet-paper-wrapped fraud-turds should be.
I know I'm going to hear about this!:beer:

[Swamp Rat]

145. IMPEACH!!

[Ghost in the Machine]

147. I don't know, but now I want some grits and cornbread!

:evilgrin:

We're getting bluer in Tennessee...

[NutmegYankee]

149. And here we go, right onto a Yankee Bashing thread. n/t

[Perry Logan]

150. The South were willing to kill their fellow Amwericans so they could keep their slaves. How's that?

America would be a decent country if we could cut the South off like a bloody stump.

[frustrated_lefty]

157. Get an education.

Check your prejudice at the door, open those ears, and try to learn something more than inbred bigotry.

[Critters2]

164. The South didn't support slavery?

Got some citations for that?

[frustrated_lefty]

170. That is not what I said, and if you bothered to get an education

you'd know what I was referring to. The southern states were terrified of losing any say in governmental processes. Slavery became a causus belli.

Now, having lived in Louisiana, Alabama, California and Philadelphia, I would submit to you that Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love, is by far the most segregated city in my experience. This is in comparison to New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Tuscaloosa, Birmingham, San Francisco, and San Diego. For all of this enlightened clap-trap I hear about northern states, racism and segregation is alive and well in the North. Some of you pompous assholes might learn a thing or two from your southern brethren.

[Critters2]

171. Living in ethnic neighborhoods is a damn sight different

from lynchings. And again, the reason we keep being told we need to nominate a Southerner is because Southerners won't vote for a black or a Northerner. I don't hear anyone worrying about whether the people of Massachusetts will vote for someone with a Southern accent. Indeed, too often, they have no choice.

And as for who needs an education, do you really want me to post literacy rates for the 50 states? I can, you know.

[AX10]

179. I know how you feel.

I am sick and tired of hearing that we have to play to a certain part of the country. The southeast is greatly responsible for the horrors that have occured throughout this world today. I am no the one with prejudice, southerners are. I had no problem with supporting Carter and Clinton, both southerners, but God forbid a southerner is asked to support a notherner.

[Critters2]

180. Yep. Remind me again who won the civil war.

If they lost, why do they have the power now?

[AX10]

184. Lincoln should have crushed them.

They are terrorists.

[frustrated_lefty]

189. Amen, kill the fuckers

[tammywammy]

192. Seriously "kill the fuckers"???

What do you suggest? Carpet bombing? Nukes? There's still a lot of good things that come out of the south.

[BlooInBloo]

195. lol! Though they are largely abominable, that's going too far.

[frustrated_lefty]

188. By all means, go ahead.

I wasn't referring to the statewide education, though, just your lack of one.

[BlooInBloo]

196. Hint:: the southern states are on the short end of the literacy stick...

... just like the divorce stick, the poverty sick, and pretty much every other stick you can name.

[TwilightGardener]

175. And their redneck descendants control our political process.

[alcibiades_mystery]

153. ...

http://www.wickedsunshine.com/WagePeace/Election2004/Images/AwJeez,NotThisShitAgain!.jpg

[tammywammy]

154. Everything goes in cycles

circumcision, breast feeding, sex/porn, the "South"

[marions ghost]

156. What's all this REALLY about?

OK, so I'm biased, but scapegoating "The South" as a whole strikes me as not very intelligent.

Look at the villification of Iraqis, or anyone of Mid-east descent. Did we fall for this? Do progressives go around hating whole countries we have problems with-- Iran, North Korea, Russia, China, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Mexico? Do we draw all the people in that country into a big fishnet of hatred? Isn't that what separates us from Republicans? We know how to target the real enemies?

So why do people calling themselves liberals do this in the case of the South?

I mean seriously, people who claim not to be bigoted but who want to "otherize" the largest region of the country in population seem to have a screw loose. It's crazier to me than those rightwing neanderthals who don't hide their bigotry.

The South has grown by 21.7% in pop since 1990--those people came from other US states & Mexico. So do you leave those latecomers out of South-hate?


U.S. Population by Region, 2006

United States 299,398,484

Northeast 54,741,353

Midwest 66,217,736

South 109,083,752

West 69,355,643
-----------------------------------------

The Northeast region includes Conn., Maine, Mass., N.H., N.J., N.Y., Pa., R.I., and Vt.

The Midwest includes Ill., Ind., Iowa, Kans., Mich., Minn., Mo., Neb., N.D., Ohio, S.D., and Wis.

The South includes Ala., Ark., Del., D.C., Fla., Ga., Ky., La., Md., Miss., N.C., Okla., S.C., Tenn., Tex., Va., and W.Va..

The West includes Alaska, Ariz., Calif., Colo., Hawaii, Idaho, Mont., Nev., N.M., Ore., Utah, Wash., and Wyo.

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, Census 2000. Web: www.census.gov .

[Prophet 451]

162. Perhaps because there is legitimate reason for complaint?

(copied from my reply to another poster who used a similar tactic)

I work with fundementalist Christians much of the time. This reminds me very strongly of their habit of screaming "persecution!" when called on their bad behaviour. It also sounds like the tendancy of some Americans to claim anti-Americanism when someone outside the US points out how bad US foreign policy has been for the last twenty years.

In other words, you aren't disputing that the points raised are accurate, you're attacking us for raising them.

[marions ghost]

168. No --raise all the points you want...

I'm criticizing you for not targeting your enemies with laser-like precision. Kind of the difference between 'surgical strikes' and Dick Cheney style quailhunting.

I think it's OK to find certain groups despicable, but I see them as more of a type, not residents of any one region or country. If you do that then everybody born in the South or choosing to come here is complicit in bigotry and whatever else you think is only found in the South.

I'm happy to talk all day long about all the ways that the South historically and certain Southerners are in my view, incorrect. Yadda Yadda. But I don't accept hatred for a whole region or country. Fundies won't do that with you. They always have to be correct.

People who scapegoat must never have been scapegoated in their lives, or if they were, they have a need to do it to others. A strange compulsion, when it comes out in intelligent people. Stupid people you have to cut more slack and blame the sheepherders.

[Prophet 451]

169. But when that "type" is concentrated in one locality

is it not understandable to speak of the locality as shorthand for the type?

Obviously, we are speaking here of generalities and societal tendancies, not of every single Southerner. I would have thought that went without saying. The fact is that large parts of the South DO have a "more American than thou" attitude, are wildly conservative and in some areas (Texas, for example) would vote for Jack The Ripper if he had an (R) after his name.

As for never having been scapegoated: Bisexual and partly Roma (a gypsy). We could teach lessons on victimisation.

[marions ghost]

176. Well...

Gotta git back to my banjo-pickin and tobacco spittin right now...

But to answer your points real quick-like:
---------------

1. No. A region of 109 million people cannot be used as "shorthand for a type."

2. "More American than thou" is provincial regional pride. (Yawn) It's everywhere. Just ignore it. Here are some more examples of it:

"New York is an oasis of civilization in the midst of a vast cultural desert."
"California is the most liberal place on the planet."
"Wisconsin has the best cheese in the world."

3. Texas. I'll let Texans speak for Texas. After Dubya I think might some of them might be comin down a notch about their vote for Rethuglicans (those would not be reading DU tho). Shall we also make Utah round up their fundies or hold Wyoming responsible for spawning Darth?

Bisexual & gypsy--I would think you'd be a little more flexible in your thinking? Maybe get a little bisexual gypsy pride instead, it's healthier. I don't like being scapegoated either. Nobody likes it.
Yes it sucks.

[Prophet 451]

183. Oh, don't worry about that`

I'm plenty proud of who and what I am (not least that we continue to survive despite evry effort to exterminate us).

I'm up for tasking Utah to round up their fundies. Being Southern is an accident of birth for the most part but being a fundie is a choice :)

Ok, I take the point that I might well be being overbroad in my generalisations. However, I maintain that the social attitude in much of teh South (especially the rural parts) is worryingly conservative.

[treestar]

166. For sure, repuke rednecks and freepish fundies live all over the US

And even by stereotype, the Midwest or the West is no worse than the South.

[annabanana]

174. I see WAY more "Why do people hate the South" threads than "I hate the South"

I think there may be just a smidgen of defensiveness down there...

[frustrated_lefty]

190. Horsecrap, you can't wade through the moronic polls

without finding at least one bitch thread about the confederate flag.

[Maestro]

193. Born in Georgia to

parents with deep family roots in Texas. My great, great, great grandfather, Jackson Smith, founded the town of Jacksonville, Texas He came from Kentucky. He fought in the Texas Army when Texas was its own country. The southern bashing is unfortunate. My other side of the family is also from Texas coming to Texas from Newberry County in South Carolina in the early 1800s. They lived in the area going back to the 1700s. My research gets stumped there.

Assholes live everywhere not just in the south.

[aquaman]

201. Small world....

I live in Newberry County now. :hi:

[idgiehkt]

194. I think it's because it's "acceptable" bigotry.

Maybe these types would be saying the 'n' word if they could get away with it...since they can't, they have to have someone to hate on.

(In truth it's just ignorance, but whatever.)

[jpgray]

197. The people there consistently vote against their best interests, and vote for the worst candidates?

Not all the people there do this, but enough to create a huge headache for the rest of the country. Something is wrong in those regions that is causing this, and since it is a particularly large region people like to generalize about it. It's not that they mean all of the South is to blame, but that enough of it is. What states consistently send out the worst congresspeople? What states consistently go for the worst presidents? Shouldn't even Southerners see that as a serious problem? It has nothing to do with the region itself, but a plurality of ignorant folks who happen to live there, ruining the region's reputation for their neighbors.

[tinfoil tiaras]

198. Thank YOU!

And FWITW, Northern Republicans, imo are worse than Southern Republicans, because Southern Republicans are nice to your face but Northern Republicans just let it all out. Must be that Southern Hospitality thing ;)

[demobabe]

200. We don't hate the South. We just like to tease y'all sometimes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

Posted with affection. I'm sure Miss Teen USA contestants in other Southern states had better answers.

:)