Pro football, anyone ?

[Wiregrass Willie]

All of the media coverage of Michael Vick moved me to watch a pro football wrap-up type show this morning. I haven't watched a football game in about 12 years.

I must say I was surprised at just how much I had missed. Use to, when I watched in the 1970s and 1980s -- although the players would never impress anybody with their intelligence -- at least they all seemed pretty healthy. That is not the case anymore.

Most of the guys I saw were about 100 overweight and they were all so deficient in intelligence that an idea would die an loneliness in any one their heads. Besides that, they all had a terrible look about them. I'd have to describe it as "raunchy" for lack of a better word. Most appeared to be over-aged, over-sized teeny boppers who wanted to mimic the West Coast gangs. They all had shit-toos down their arms. I was too far away to see the drug tacks that I'm sure they all had mixed in with their 'toos.

These guys are not the kind of men I would want to introduce my 9 year old grandson to. Why do grown men watch this ..... again I'm at a loss for words. To call them "shit" would be a slander against fecal matter which at least serves a purpose.

I'm at a loss.

I'll admit I once watched them. But it was because I was in a boring few years of my life. I outgrew it.

Can you imagine taking your 9 year old son or grandson to a game to watch these specimens ? Of course you could point out Mikey Vick ands say :

" See, son, if you work real hard you can grow up to be just like him".

Nope, I can't imagine that. Let's hope the mothers of today have better luck in raising their boys than did the generations who raised the fans who turn this societal debris into millionaires.

[DS1]

1. ...

[Yavin4]

2. Football Is A Violent Sport

More violent than boxing or mixed martial arts. That kind of violence is going to attract certain individuals, people who are aggressive in nature.

[sailor65]

3. Where did you get the idea

that football is more violent than boxing or MMA? Have you ever played football? It's nowhere near that violent.

[Mojambo]

5. I think a case could be made that football does produce a more violent individual than boxing or mma

With football it's more like war. A large group of men taking the field with the intention of crushing another group of men.

With boxing and MMA it's an individual combat, more like a duel.

At the highest levels football is just as violent as boxing and MMA, and far more dangerous with regard to suffering serious injury.

[sailor65]

9. Actually it's the opposite

You typically win a boxing or MMA match by damaging your opponent sufficiently to remove his ability to fight you (i.e. war), with the exception of the rare split decision.

In football, it is possible and preferable to win without the necessity for causing physical damage to your opponent. Obviously there have been players in the past whose motives were questionable.

[Mojambo]

14. Well, I'm going to separate MMA from boxing here

Because I'm not a big fan of boxing and I am a big fan of MMA.

In MMA the damage is usually inflicted and ended in a very short period of time. The reason you rarely see serious injuries in MMA is that the fight is stopped and the victor declared before excessive damage is dealt.

Ask any offensive lineman, who play after play launches his 300+ pound frame into the guy lining up opposite him, whether is is possible to win a game without causing physical damage to your opponent. It isn't.

They don't call it smash mouth football for nothing.

[sailor65]

20. Unfortunately

You have your term a bit confused.

"Smash Mouth" football (Admittedly an unfortunate phrase) refers to an offense designed to drive running backs past contact for short gains in order to open up other play options, and to work the clock. 300 pound offensive linemen face 300 pound defensive linemen with pretty much neutral results, but 300 pound lineman don't typically participate in "Smash Mouth" football, except where overzealous announcers are grasping for catchy phrases.

And your statement about MMA is very true but also illustrates my point for me. In MMA the damage even when minimal, is required for the win. In football, damage (When it occurs) is a side effect and incidental to the win. The MMA competitor cannot usually win without inflicting damage. I've won (And lost) plenty of football gams without any player taking any damage.

[Mojambo]

22. If we agree that the act of tackling another player is violent and deals damage

And I think we can.

And we agree that the team that tackles better almost always wins. Tackling the ball carrier being the most effective way of keeping them out of the end zone.

I would not say that the damage inflicted in football is incidental to the win.

[muriel_volestrangler]

40. You don't score points in football for the damage done

So the damage is incidental. In fighting sports, you do - for blows landed, opponents rendered incapable of continuing etc.

No, tackling doesn't have to be violent, or deal damage. So you don't have agreement.

[Fading Captain]

7. Really

When I watched football, it was because I loved watching Barry Sanders run. Like I like to watch Pave Datsyuk stickhandle

[sailor65]

25. Now if only.....

Pave would shoot......hmmm...

:)

[Yavin4]

15. Not As Violent, Huh? Did You Hear About Chris Simms' Injury?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2601555

[Wiregrass Willie]

38. I have no problem with them being violent ..

..with each other.

Actually I think the game would be more amusing if pass defenders were issued single shot rifles. Every time a moron stumbles across into the end zone, he appears to think he has achieved something. A well placed small caliber rifle bullet would stop that uncouth nonsense before it starts.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

4. Pointless to debate

If you like the taste of carrots, and I don't......to each his own

[Fading Captain]

6. I don't watch football much

But, whatever.

*Some* democrats need to stop being so damn snooty about everything.

Thomas Frank wrote an interesting book about why the Democrats are losing the heartland. It talks about the way Republicans and the media has fooled a blue collar state into voting against their interests.
As someone who grew up in a blue collar family and living in the white collar city of Ann Arbor, I can tell you that it's more complex than that.

Ann Arbor, home of the Subaru Wagon (An astonishing lack of American, union-made cars for a city so close to Motown) parked in front of the organic grocery store that the average blue collar worker can't afford.

Free trade, says the democrats. No, says the working man. You may not think so, but we understand the world, and this will be good for you, says the democrats.

Stop being so damn snooty to blue collar Americans. Yeah, blue collar people tend to like their sports (Personally, I prefer hockey, and yes, I enjoy the odd fight).

This is what Chris Matthews is talking about, when he's talking about the "who would you rather have a beer with" factor.

[MadHound]

8. Oh please,

"Shit-toos"? "Raunchy"? Please, you're simply showing your age, and your age bias.

Tatoos are quite common these days, both in sports and out of it. One can find many, many young doctors, lawyers and other professionals wearing both the quantity and quality of tats that pro ballplayers have.

Frankly, the caliber of intelligence of pro ballplayers hasn't changed much. Shit, if you want to see an intelligence void, one only has to look at such old school greats as Terry Bradshaw or John Elway. Ballplayers have never been noted for their brains, and today's current rosters contain about the same mix of geniuses and dunces that was prevalent back in the '80s, 70's, etc.

One thing that might be effecting your judgement is that fact that back in the day, players off the court foibles and fumbles didn't become overnight headlines. You had players who were drunks, druggies, wife-beaters, thugs and outright criminals. The only difference between then and now is that these less savory aspects of the players were covered up and not reported on. In fact part of the reason that you see players getting cracked down on now is because the league and legal authorities got fed up with the antics of players past and decided to clean house.

Sorry, but your little rant sounds like the rants of any older generation. Hell, I heard the same kind of shit you're spewing back when I was a kid, my parents and grandparents raving about how Red Grange or Jim Thorpe were head and shoulders above players like Walter Payton or Kellen Winslow. It was bullshit then and it's bullshit now.

Perhaps you should actually try watching a game again, then get back to us on how horrible these players are. Until then you're just talking out your ass.

[tired_old_fireman]

12. I'm not sure if the original poster is showing age bias or race bias or both.

Saying people dress like "west coast gangsters" is ignorant at best and racist at worst.

[BlooInBloo]

19. Yup.

[devilgrrl]

21. What's a "west coast gangster" look like?

There's a uniform? :crazy:

[LostinVA]

26. I have a tattoo -- does this mean I'm a "west coast gangster?"

Haruka has a bunch of tattoos, is she extra "gangster?"

I just find this all amusing.

[devilgrrl]

30. I'm amused that OP thinks gangsters are exclusively from the West Coast!

:crazy:

[LostinVA]

31. Yeah, because East Coast cities NEVER have gangs

[Poiuyt]

32. "When you're a Jet, you're a Jet all the way!"

Are the West Coast gangs as good at dancing?

[Wiregrass Willie]

39. We don't have such illustrious groups as the Blips and the Cruds nt

[AlCzervik]

10. why would i point to any pro athlete or celebrity and say "See you can be just like them"

i took my nephew to plenty of Patriots and Bruins games and he's in college majoring in economics now.

[devilgrrl]

23. What kills me about a lot of those football assholes is their rampant Wingnutism.

"See, if you work hard enough, are tall enough and can catch a football - you can be RICH just like us!!!!"

[Ron Green]

11. Sportsbiz is one way to hypnotize large numbers of men into

avoiding intimacy with each other. It's much quicker to tap into fear than into love, and it makes people easier to control.

[youngdem]

13. Geez....Generalize much?

I played high school football. Played Tight End and Defensive End.

The guy that played to my right is now a doctor. Our center is a pediatrician.

The quarterback now owns a successful construction firm, building facilities for refineries. I could go on and on, but I will spare you.

The ENTIRETY of the team went to college, and only a few went on football scholarships (although one was good enough to still be playing in the pros to this day).

And there are a few dozen Ivy League guys playing pro. And they could not receive scholarships, and had to get accepted like everyone else applying. Center Matt Birk went to Harvard, and the third string quarterbacks for KC is from Princeton, as was the third stringer for Dallas the past few years.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that everyone who participates in it are idiots. And please, tell me, how do you gauge that the entire team is idiots based on watching a game? Were they doing a split screen of them reciting Shakespeare or doing the Wonderlik test? Or could you just infer it by looking at them?

And do you REALLY think that these elite athletes are shooting up? Are you kidding me? The competition for these jobs is FIERCE. They may burn a blunt or sniff a line in the off season, but accusing them of being drug addicts, even though "I was too far away to see the drug tacks", whatever the fuck a drug TACK is, is unwarranted. Perhaps before smearing an entire profession and coming extremely close to racist stereotypes without ANY justification or evidence, you should run spell check so you can better mask your ignorance.

And please, explain to me how a 320 lb man who can bench press 550lbs looks like "over-aged, over-sized teeny boppers"? That makes no fucking sense whatsoever, I guess in keeping with the theme of the rest of your post.

Not all of the players in the league are like Vick...In fact, THAT is why this is such a huge story. Yes, there are thugs that play this game, but Goodell is getting rid of them quickly (see the year long plus suspensions of Jones, and others who have caused problems). I guess in your rush to generalize and condemn, you failed to inform yourself about such wonderful players as Drew Brees, who gives a million or two away to school causes and New Orleans rebuilding efforts each year, or Warrick Dunn, who gives away AN ENTIRE FURNISHED HOUSE each Christmas to a single mother (to remember his mother, who was killed on Christmas day working as a moonlighting cop in Baton Rouge), or...well, you get the idea. The NFL players association and its members give away tens of millions of dollars a year. You know, like gang-like, teeny bopper, West coast gang imitators are known to do.

Lastly, if you think 12 years ago was the 80's, well, I guess that speaks further to your acute observation skills, and perhaps speaks to just how much 'Wiregrass' you have been smoking.

Don't like something? Don't watch it. But save your uneducated, gently racist bullshit for somewhere else.

[cherokeeprogressive]

16. Gawd, I can almost hear my Dad's voice...

If I don't like it, you're an idiot FOR liking it.

You're not related to him, are you?

Societal debris. Indeed.

[Wiregrass Willie]

33. Your father is obviously a man of refinement and good taste n/t

[trumad]

17. Oh God---another last to be picked DUer

venting about the outrages of a sport.

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. Last picked and playing right field LOL. eom

[trumad]

24. Bingo.

[BlooInBloo]

29. ROFL!!!

[Poiuyt]

27. If you're going to make a statement about someone's intelligence, then you'd better proofread

"they were all so deficient in intelligence that an idea would die an loneliness in any one their heads.

[Johonny]

28. wait they still play games

I thought they just all sat around and played themselves in Madden 08. I didn't realize actual football was still played:)

Most appeared to be over-aged, over-sized teeny boppers who wanted to mimic the West Coast gangs

You just described Dick Cheney.

[RL3AO]

34. Do you know how smart you have to be to play in the NFL?

You have to learn an entire playbook and watch hours of film to learn the tendencies of the opposing team. Not to mention you need to watch for patterns during a play. To call them overweight and deficient in intelligence is an absolute joke.

[ecstatic]

35. So, you're saying that since the league has become mostly black,

it has gone downhill? :shrug: Please I see through your rant. Next.

[dannofoot]

36. "Can you imagine taking your 9 year old son or grandson...

to a game to watch these specimens ?"

I guess, since I drove 8 hours last week to take my 15 and 14 year-old sons to their first game (Browns/Lions). Mrs. Dannofoot enjoyed the game greatly as well.

They were especially excited to see that "specimen,", Notre Dame graduate Brady Quinn start his pro career. They also like Cleveland receiver Braylon Edwards, who is starting to really become a stand-up guy around the city. And as they follow the Browns' website, they see how much these guys do in their off-time for Cleveland Charities, the United Way, etc.

Do you do as much in your free time?

[angrycarpenter]

37. I was A skinny nerd

In my experience football players were poorly educated vain bullies who had to extend their physical dominance over all around them. I have never liked football one bit. Although I like the super bowl commercials.