Today I am a welfare queen

[Bjorn Against]

Over the past twenty-four hours I have learned something important, I have learned what it means to be a welfare queen.

My life as a welfare queen began yesterday afternoon while I was vacationing at Itasca State Park in northern Minnesota. Itasca is a very majestic place, it is the place where the Mississippi River begins it's more than 2,000 mile long journey to the Gulf of Mexico, and it is home to one of the last remaining old growth forests in the state of Minnesota. It is a land that was at nearly destroyed by logging interests in the late 1800's until an early environmentalist leader by the name of Jacob Brower stood up for the forests and took on the powerful timber industry. Because of Brower's fight to protect the beautiful forests of Itasca the land was turned into Minnesota's first state park thus preserving it for generations to come.

I arrived at Itasca determined to enjoy the beautiful scenery and I planned on doing a great deal of hiking. I walked along the shores of Lake Itasca staring up at the red pines that towered above my head and enjoying every detail of the beautiful scenery that surrounded me, apparently I was enjoying it a bit too much though and I was not paying close enough attention to the trail ahead of me. I took one step and when I looked down my knee was bending in a direction it was not supposed to be bending, and I felt it pop out right of its socket. I fell to the ground as the pain was too much for me to bear, and here I was stuck out in the middle of the woods alone, in severe pain, and wondering how I was ever going to make it back to my campsite. Fortunately though my knee did go back into it's socket on its own and after a few minutes of intense pain it started to feel significantly better. I was able to stand up again and walk the two miles back to my campsite with surprisingly little trouble and I thought everything was going to be OK.

About six hours later however as I was getting ready to call it quits for the night and retreat into my tent I stood up and realized that I was barely able to walk. I managed to limp over to my tent to grab some things, and I started to try to get up so I could walk to the bathroom. There was a problem though. I was on the ground and I was unable to lift myself back up to my feet. I struggled for about ten minutes trying to stand up, and eventually figured out a way to flip myself onto my stomach and then use my arms to pull myself up while keeping my leg perfectly straight. Throughout the night I had to learn simple, basic tasks all over again. All of a sudden things I used to take for granted like taking off my shoes and crawling into my sleeping bag were now very challenging endeavors.

When I woke up this morning I knew my vacation was over and my family brought me home, two days before we were intending to leave.

So what is my point in telling you all this? Well for the next couple of days I am not going to be able to live a normal life without assistance, I am having to stay with my parents at least for tonight because I know I can not possibly handle going home and having to make it up and down stairs on my own and keep up with my normal household duties like cooking for myself. At least for tonight I need assistance, I can't get by on my own.

Now I am fortunate because I know my injury will heal fairly quickly. I fully intend to be back to work on Monday, and I should be able to walk normally again within a couple days as long as the swelling goes down.

Today however I need assistance, today I am a welfare queen. No, I am not collecting a check from the government, and no I am not a woman so I don't quite fit the misogynistic language that the right-wing uses to describe people who are in a state of need. I don't ever hear them talk about "welfare kings" though, so I will just have to go with their sexist language and be queen for a day.

The truth is that no matter how much the right-wing tries to spin it these so called welfare queens are people who are in a position similar to the position I am in today, except unlike my situation many of them are facing long-term problems. My injuries will heal, the injuries of many disabled Americans won't heal.

Let us make no mistake the welfare queens the right-wing likes to complain about are those with long-term disabilities. The welfare queens are those who are physically unable to work on their own, they are the mentally ill and they are the children. Sure, there are a few who abuse the system but they are few and far between. The majority of people who receive welfare are people who feel just like I feel today, they are people who want to live without assistance but at this moment can not.

I am sick of hearing the Republicans and the DLC celebrating their effort to make people "pull themselves up by the bootstraps" while failing to note that the force of gravity makes it impossible to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. I am sick of hearing their attacks on the disabled, the children, and the impoverished being disguised as attacks on the lazy "welfare queens". I am sick of them complaining about providing aid to women who keep "spitting out children" without noting that when they deny aid to that strawman of an irresponsible woman they are really denying aid to the children of that women. It just must make it so much easier for them to sleep at night when they believe it is the parent's fault that the right-wingers decided to cut aid to children. I am sick of them using these strawmen of irresponsible welfare recipients to justify aid to the disabled and those who truly need assistance.

I may never collect a welfare check, but I do need assistance. In my case the assistance I need is not monetary assistance, it is simply assistance from my family to help me get through my normal daily routine for a couple days until I start to heal. But the fact that I need assistance makes me a welfare queen. It doesn't matter who I get that assistance from, I am fortunate to have a family that will help me but I realize that not everyone who is in a situation far more severe than my own has that family to help them and as a society we need to make sure those people are served.

Today I know what it feels like to be disabled and in need, today I am a welfare queen.

[Mnemosyne]

1. Proud to be 5th! Take care of that knee. No

kickin ass this weekend for you! :hi:

[susanna]

2. Great post. K&R from me! n/t

[bleedingheart]

3. I have rarely met anyone who could "pull themselves up"

without assistance and that assistance came from either family, friends or the government.

[Bjorn Against]

4. Yes, I would like to challenge the right-wingers to find a single "self-made man"

We hear them prop these people up all the time, but I can virtually guarantee that no such person exists. Every single one of us benefits in some way from government handouts, we use government funded roads, go to government funded schools, and we benefit in numerous ways from many other government programs.

I was focusing on welfare for those in dire situations in my OP, but in reality we all benefit from other types of welfare in many different ways.

[TalkingDog]

22. Ha! Great minds ride in the same truck.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3405836&mesg_id=3406187

That's been my argument since I could wear a bra....or not.




My Favorite Master Artist: Karen Parker GhostWoman Studios

[Sticky]

5. Love your writing style.....

Are we to believe there are no Republican "welfare queens"? Is it possible there is not one welfare recipient over at Free Republic? Republicans are a bunch of self-haters and just the thought of it makes me smile.:evilgrin:

ETA: Get well soon!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

6. not to jack your thread... but my knee has done that several times...

it's the swelling that seems to cause the most pain, that's why it felt ok at first, and you couldn't walk later. Immediate Ice is very important. Don't count on this healing by Monday, and you will need to be careful in the future. The ligaments that hold the kneecap on get 'stretched' and tend to give away again with no notice. :( They put me in a full leg brace for 6 weeks the first time, each time after it's usually been completely healed within a month (walking, running, no pain). If you have insurance, I would get it checked out, they will give you a full leg brace to keep it straight. My youngest son (16) just did the same thing a week ago Monday, and he's still not okay to walk on it. It's tried to pop out again twice, I'm going to have to break down and take him in if it doesn't get better in the next 2 days. The biggest worry is if you have fluid building up under the patella. It will interfere with the healing process and has to be drained. If you want, PM me and I will give you vast knowledge on how to treat this yourself, and what you need to watch out for. :hug: Speedy healing!

back to your post...

K&R! I'll be using your analogy on my fundie boss first thing Monday morning. :evilgrin:

[Bjorn Against]

8. Thanks for the advice

This is not actually the first time I have dealt with this, but when it happened before it healed really quickly so I was hoping that it would do so again this time. If swelling does not go down quickly I will probably have to go get a brace and crutches so I can make it to work on Monday, I am not in much pain it is just very difficult to get around right now.

[Greyskye]

7. as one who has a bad knee...

...I wish you all the best with this.

Unfortunately, it may take longer to heal then you think. The first time I sublimated my patella (the fancy term for what happened to you) I was on crutches for multiple weeks along with an adjustable knee brace, and had regular visits to a physical terrorist, er, therapist for a long time after that.

It has since popped out 3 more times. And it's hell every single time.

As the song (EVERYBODY'S FREE (TO WEAR SUNSCREEN)) says: Be kind to your knees, you’ll miss them when they’re gone.

Ain't that the truth!

[Wiley50]

9. As One of Those Permanently Disabled, I Thank you From The Bottom of My Heart

I, too, am male and for us there is no welfare anymore. There is only $623/mo
from a disability insurance policy that the government made me pay into, every paycheck,
for almost 40 years. But, even though, I am constantly accused of "living off of welfare".
True welfare has been dead since 1996, when Clinton finally put it out of the misery
of being beaten down over the years by both, though mostly Republican, administrations.

The Welfare Reform Act of 1996 was simply removing the final life support, in more ways than one.

Other than Social Security, like me,(which took 3 1/2 years and a lawyer to collect) there is only
still available, to some, Aid to Families With Dependent Children (AFDC)
which requires one to work as best you can, with little help with childcare,
and only for a finite length of time, cumulative in one's lifetime.
You run out the months, it's done. No matter what.

Hope this clarifies the MYTH of Welfare in 21st Century America

Thanks Again

[ScottytheRadical]

25. Yup. I'm a college student with cerebral palsy, and I *have* to work because my checks are too low.

I think that that's what a lot of people don't realize - there is no "social safety net" in America anymore. Welfare "reform" has killed it.

I'm a 20-year-old full time college student at a state university with moderately severe cerebral palsy - spastic diplegia. I use forearm crutches to walk around. I'm taking out student loans to help pay my tuition, but the student loans I get only cover the cost of tuition and books. I could theoretically take out private loans, but I know people for whom that's turned out very badly.

I get $560 a month in Supplemental Security Income (SSI) for my disability. It should be $623 a month, but when I had a full-time job about a year ago SSI overpaid me ("overpaid" meaning giving me the full payment when they should have deducted money because I was getting paycheques at my $9-an-hour job.) So now I "owë" them around a $1000 that's paid in the form of reducing my cheque amount.

I live in Portland, Oregon, in a small but decently-maintained studio apartment that's close to where I go to school. My rent is $600 a month. For the past couple months, I've been having to borrow money from my parents and my partner in order to pay the rent, and I know I can't really afford to live here any longer and will have to find a place to live with roommates somewhere further from the core of the city.

Tomorrow I have an interview for a job at a call center that will pay $7.80 an hour. Call centers are the only places in the service industry that I've been able to get hired at - I can't work in normal service industry jobs. Not because I can't do them, physically, I could - but because every time I apply for a job as a front desk clerk or a cashier the person interviewing me sees me using my crutches and I never get a call back. But I have to get a job *somewhere* because I don't have enough money to live off of without one.

I'm not sure what the point of this all is...guess I'm just another example of an American "Welfare Queen"...and this is the high life I get from $560 a month.

[Irishonly]

52. Thank You

While I was trying to receive Social Security my husband was laid off due to a business closing. If I could have worked I would have and I wouldn't wish anyone to have to go through what we did. I have permanent kidney damage as a result. He received $10.00 a month too much for us to receive any state aid. Hugs to you and I am glad you received your benefits. I received mine after 3 1/2 years and hiring a lawyer. My biggest relief came when the judge apologized to me for what the system had done.:grouphug:

[Joe Fields]

10. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you haven't a clue as to what it

means to be on welfare. So, you're on VACATION and you wrench your knee, and now you can magically identify with people who are on welfare? Jeeze....

[kdmorris]

12. I think you may have missed his point

He was saying he knows what it means to need assistance, that he knows what it means to be helpless and that the poorest amongst us still need it, while he will go back to work on Monday.

I appreciated it and I AM an ex-welfare queen.

[Joe Fields]

19. It is he who missed the point. I completely understood what he said.

He obviously (and he should be grateful) hasn't been there and done that.

[kdmorris]

21. Yes, I know, but he is trying

If it starts a conversation, it's worth it.

[whoneedstickets]

13. I was thinking more 'Drama Queen'...

...hope your sports injury heals though.

[B2G]

14. I am the walrus

Coo coo-ca choo.

[mntleo2]

15. Real Welfare "Queen" Here

...I want to let you know it is true, the writer does not have much of a clue ~ but I am grateful he is writing about it anyway. It is about time we also look at the REAL welfare queens, corporatists and the rich who take far more of our tax money while they sit by the pool drinking pina colatas and collecting millions in tax free dividends than ALL the welfare moms and dads combined.

Welfare at this time is less than 3% of our national budget while corporate welfare and tax breaks for the rich are literally thousands of times more. He is right about one thing: most welfare parents (mostly women) are on welfare because they have serious barriers to working for a living such as:
1. No jobs with livable wages
2. They or their children are disabled
3. No childcare available ~ or any other programs for older kids left at home alone to get into trouble.
4. No transportation to look for work or to get to work
5. They are not able to collect child support (other parent is sick, in jail or just refuses to help raise their child). BTW over 85% of welfare moms were married ~ and 70% were in domestic violence situations where they and their chidren were abused.
6. Isolated rural settings where there are few resources or work
7. Whole family is homeless and unable to get stable enough to find work ~ and welfare does not even supply enough to pay rent in most places much less provide utilities and transportation
8. Over 70% of McJobs are at odd hours ~ early in the morning or late at night and lack of transportation, affordable or available childcare as well as low pay make it impossible for a mother to work outside of the home, especially with very young kids, or young teens who are very apt to get in trouble when there are no adults around to guide them.
9. Because we do not value parenting as actually contributing to society instead of taking from it, we think a minimum wage job is "more important" than a child (few people stop to think what this does ~ were YOU less important than a $5.75 an hour job?) instead of seeing that raising the next generation IS doing something quite valuable for society, therefore parents, especially single parents are left out there with few resources or support of any kind.
10. Nobody will tell the childless people and well off who sniff and says they "should never have to support somebody else's kids" that, since they are now paying their parent's social security and with their thinking, then why should those kids pay social security to these complainers, or fight in their wars when they are too old and oh, they better learn how to dig that sewage trench with their cane and how to wire the neighborhood transformer vaults otherwise "somebody else's kids" will be doing that when these complainers get too old and the unsupported generation should not have to support anyone who did not support them ...
11. More whites are on welfare than people of color by far, btw, yet people of color have far higher unemployment rates, I wonder why ...

I could add to the list, but these are the most common reasons a person is a "welfare queen".



Let him talk. Maybe someone will listen to him, while nobody listens to the people who actually are on welfare.

Cat In Seattle <--- I may be on welfare, but it is not because I am stupid

[kdmorris]

17. From one to another

:grouphug:

[mntleo2]

23. I Know Dear ...

...I read your post and it is very much like that and I have cried the same tears for the same reasons ~ which is why I am an advocate for people on welfare and why I try to raise people's awareness every way I can. Thanks for the hugs ~ I am disabled and a great-aunt raising another child whose own mother is in bad shape. I am telling you, it is not easy, but I have never seen so many people with hearts far bigger and far braver, and with more generosity in their little fingers than most upper income people have combined. If there is one thing I hope you say to yourself it is that those times gave you insight like no other ~ and if there is anyone richer, it is you for knowing what you know! Also, I have put in over 35 years working my ass off and ruining my health in what I call "McJob"s and so I do not feel bad being on welfare, I paid into it gladly when I was able to work and now that I am in this place, I am glad I had that attitude.

Hugs back! :hug: :hug: :hug:

Love
Cat
P.S. I am glad you kept your kids, I have realized now that I have this little one to raise who was in the child protective services that she is far better off with me without a pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out, than in some place where she isn't loved or cherished. I hope you realize that too now about yours, I am not making this up to tell you I have seen it with my own eyes, they had a very large chance that they may never have made it to adoption but languished in the System unloved and feeling abandoned. I am glad at least ONE kid whose parents are not in her life who will never feel that way if I can help it ~ and I have 3 decades of raising my 4 other kids for practice. God bless your present husband as well ~ you were blessed to have him, as you know, most of us have no such person to be our support nor any hope of one.

[kdmorris]

32. I too, am glad I kept them

It was hard at the time to think that I was what was best for them, since I was full of despair. I didn't really know at the time how bad things were in foster care. I just knew I felt unworthy to have them.

My husband... I am lucky to have him, even though he swears he's the lucky one. He is my best friend and having his support when I've felt like giving up is invaluable. Being poor for that long leaves it's mark on you, especially when you have children that you are trying to raise. I've lost a couple of teeth because I couldn't afford to get a root canal and extractions were free. When I managed to get this job in Florida (we moved from Maryland), I almost blew it several times because I just didn't feel worthy of having a job like this. Without him, I never would have made it. Here was this man, who loved me deeply, saying "You can do it. I know you're scared, but you are somebody. You can fit in". Sometimes, I didn't really believe him, but I wanted him to be proud of me. So, I stuck it out and in the process, made myself proud, too.

My daughters are his daughters. He and his family have never acted differently. Our youngest daughter has only the vaguest memories of my ex-husband. Our oldest has quite a few more memories, including several situations of abuse. They have not seen my ex-husband since Christmas of 1996. But they are 15, 17 and 20 now. I do know now that, despite the despair and rage and horror, it was best to keep them with me. I'm glad I did.

Most of their teenage years, we weren't rich (we still aren't, but we are in the middle class), but we had enough money to get them what they need, materially. And we never have to resort to hot dogs anymore (One package makes two dinners! That's a bargain for 79 cents!!) I've gotten lots of raises and promotions and I'm good at what I do now. But I try to make them realize that, even though we have more money now, it could have easily gone the other way. I don't want them to forget that there are millions of people out there that go to bed with no dinner or have no electricity because they just can't afford to pay the bill.

I cannot imagine how hard it must be to be on welfare today. With everything so much more expensive, it would be a lot like having whatever small amount you get cut in half. So, you are truly the brave one today. If there is ever anything I can do, just message me.

[Bjorn Against]

34. You are missing my point completely

I am going through a couple days in which I am disabled and unable to live without some sort of assistance, no it is not the same thing as being on welfare because I am in a fortunate situation. I have enough money to get through this and my injury will heal. But there are many people who are not in the situation I am in, there wounds will not heal and they will not have the money to get through it.

Does this situation make me know what it is like to be on welfare? No. But it does make me THINK about what it would be like to be on welfare and needing help while powerful forces attack you as being some lazy welfare queen.

Sometimes we need to put ourselves in other peoples shoes and that is what I was doing with my post. If you would prefer we completely separate our lives from the lives of others because we "haven't got a clue" then I can assure you that no one will ever get a clue.

[badgerpup]

58. Think I get it...

You are used to being totally self-sufficient, then all of sudden due to circumstances beyond your control you must now DEPEND upon the kindness and goodwill of other people for your simplest daily needs...and it opened your eyes.

Close? :hi:

[kdmorris]

11. I was a welfare queen

From 1992 to 1996, I was a welfare queen. I had three children (In 1992, they were 5, 2 and 11 months) and an abusive ex-husband who refuses to pay child support. I had married young, at 17, and I was completely unskilled at life, work, or society. In 1992, I was a 23 year old woman with children that I couldn't support. So, I began going to college. I started out going to college to be a Registered Nurse, but when my car was wrecked, my dreams were flushed. That was one of the biggest disappointments of my life.

I tried to get another car, but there were none available that I could pay quick cash for. I was a family of four that received $276 in AFDC each moth and $401 in Food stamps. I was lucky to get a Section 8 housing certificate that didn't force me to live in the really poor areas of Waldorf, MD. I was able to live amongst the "middle class", and send my daughters to a good elementary school. But I couldn't move forward. I volunteered at the school when the younger two started Pre-K and Kindergarten. I walked everywhere, except to go grocery shopping. My older sister would take me every two weeks to do whatever shopping I could on Food Stamps. We had creative meals. Lots of Rice and Cheese and Hot Dogs (to this day, my daughters still hate hot dogs). Without Commodities and Children's Aid, my daughters would have had no clothes and the Food Stamps wouldn't last all month.

I cried a lot. I tried to get out of the hole I was in. The electricity got cut off and I pretended that we were "playing camping". It took all of my next welfare check to get it turned back on, which got my phone cut off. My daughters remember it with fondness, those days of camping in the living room. I remember is as the time I thought about giving them up for adoption because any life would be better than the life they had with me. In the end, I couldn't do it, because they were all I lived for. Without them, I would have committed suicide. And I wasn't sure that my ex-husband wouldn't get them, so I couldn't take that chance.

He went to jail for 2 years. During that time, I started carpooling with my ex-husband's brother's ex-wife to go to computer programming classes. It was hard. I got up at 6 to get my children to school and didn't finish my own school until 7:30 at night. I got whatever babysitters I could for those 9 months of school, anyone who would accept the $60 a week per child that Welfare paid them. One of them said she would feed them dinner and then didn't for 3 months. I was too tired to notice and when my daughter finally asked (quite wistfully) when they were going to start eating dinner again, I turned her in to the state. But it left me with no babysitter. The next one called Child Protective Services on me because my 2 year old hadn't learned to wipe herself (I was just pleased she was Potty trained at all, because then I didn't have to buy diapers).

During that time, Newt Gingrich was spouting his bullshit about how my children should be in an orphanage. I was ashamed and sad all the time. I was still going to school and, dammit, I was TRYING. On August 22, 1996, President Clinton signed the Welfare Reform Act into law. According the the state, I was then in violation of the "contract" because I was not working or looking for work for 20 hours each week. Yeah.. I had time to do that. Since I was unable to prove that I was looking for work or working for 20 hours a week, I was sanctioned in September, 1996, one month before graduation.

They didn't take all the money. Just a fourth of it. I was the one sanctioned, not my daughters. I cannot tell you how hard those 4 years were in one lousy post. I sucked more than anything that has ever happened to me... well, expect the 6 years I lived with an abusive man.

During this time, I became friends with my husband. He helped me through school and supported me when I just wanted to give up. He held me when I cried. And he celebrated with me in October, 1996, when I got my first job... a job for $22,000 a year. It wasn't much, but I was working. We moved in together in 1997. In the interest of saving time in an already long post, in 1998, we got married and I got the job I currently have in Florida. Things are better now, but I KNOW I was lucky.

I was not disabled, and I was lucky. I had support from my husband (who was and is my best friend) and my sister. Others that I met in the Social Security office were not so lucky. They were probably thrown off, eventually. They were there to be treated like crap, just like I was, but they didn't make it out.

I cannot describe to you the horror of finding yourself so poor, and having to look at your children and realize that you are a horrible parent. It's agony to realize that love isn't always enough. It's the pit of living hell to have to tell your daughter that she can't go on the field trip because you just don't have $11 that month, to not eat anything yourself because your child may starve, to beg for everything and hope that no one else notices that your child never has anything new. I don't know if they believed me when I told them I wasn't hungry. Oh, I was... I was starving. And I will NEVER forget that feeling.

[SaveAmerica]

16. Here's to survival, and being the best Mom your girls could have asked for

:hug: Whoever coined the phrase 'Welfare Queen' should be hung by his nails for even suggesting there's anything regal about the life of someone who needs help from welfare.

[kdmorris]

18. I agree

I think it was someone in the Reagan Administration. I've never actually typed the words "I was a welfare queen" before and boy, did it hit home at that point what a useless, inaccurate phrase THAT is.

Thank you for your kind words!

[renate]

48. what an amazing story... I hope you are as proud of yourself as you deserve to be

Congratulations on all of your incredible achievements!

:hug:

(I know you didn't write this post to ask for praise... and the pain of your story is overwhelming. I'll never forget it, truly. It also makes it really clear how people who don't make it out can get stuck--the fact that you did get out doesn't mean that everybody in that kind of situation should be able to do the same. What you did is extraordinary.)

[kdmorris]

55. I was only able to do it because of luck and having

someone believe in me. It's taken years to get to the point that I'm proud of myself. Without my husband, and my older sister, there would have been no chance for me. There was so much more during those years that I didn't post. Every time I had hope, something would happen to destroy it.

So, now, I just make sure that I NEVER forget that. And I will always remember those who were stuck and didn't have a great husband or helpful older sister. People should not be forced to live like that in the "richest country on earth".

[Midlodemocrat]

20. You hurt your knee? And, now you are a welfare queen?

:eyes:

Please.

[eridani]

24. What part of--

--The truth is that no matter how much the right-wing tries to spin it these so called welfare queens are people who are in a position similar to the position I am in today, except unlike my situation many of them are facing long-term problems. My injuries will heal, the injuries of many disabled Americans won't heal. was it that you didn't understand?

[Midlodemocrat]

31. I understand perfectly. But, hyperbole sucks.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tkmorris]

28. I swear to GAWD

Some people, when they see a point come sailing straight at their face, duck to make damned certain it goes over their head.

Here's a hint for you. There are a few ACTUAL current or former "welfare queens" who posted to this thread. And they all LIKED the OP. I swear DU GD is in large part populated by people looking for a flame war. Let's all lighten up and try to find something positive ok?

[Midlodemocrat]

30. .

:eyes: Get a grip.

[Maddy McCall]

47. Well let me be the first former welfare recipient to say that I don't agree.

Twelve years ago, I left my violent ex-husband while pregnant, and had to rely on government assistance to have my baby and to feed him, until I was able to get on my feet.

Today, I care for a disabled family member.

So if the criterion for having a valid opinion in this thread is that one has to have experienced the welfare or disability system first-hand, well, I'm doubly qualified.

[Bjorn Against]

35. The welfare queen example is largely a metaphor

As I said in my post my wounds will heal, but not everyone else's will. I am trying to put myself in their shoes so I can get something out of this ordeal.

[Midlodemocrat]

37. I'm aware of that. You can't 'put yourself in their shoes'

because you will heal and you have an approximation as to when.

Real 'welfare queens', (How I hate that moniker) often have bleak, despondent lives because there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

Forgive me, but your OP sounds remarkably like the politicians who decided to live in Cabrini Green for 30 days to 'see what it is like to be poor'. ANYONE can do it for 30 days. Try doing it for 30 years.

[Bjorn Against]

38. No one wants to do it for thirty years

And that is the point. It is difficult enough to do it for a couple days, but when people have to live their whole lives like that it is hard to even imagine what it must be like. But as hard as it is to imagine we have to try to imagine it because if we try to distance ourselves from it then it is difficult to realize the level of assistance that is needed.

I have never looked into that specific case you mentioned with Cabrini Green, but it sounds to me like a good thing that politicians were trying to see what it was like to live in poverty for thirty days. It is better to have a small understanding of the issue than none at all.

I am not trying to put myself on anywhere near the level of suffering as those who actually live with a disability every day of their lives, but I am trying to see things as much as I can from their perspective. I realize they have it much worse and I am not trying to claim otherwise, I am just trying to put myself in their shoes for this brief moment. Sometimes we need to look at life from the eyes of "the others" because if we don't it becomes far to easy to believe the stereotype of what the right-wing says a "welfare queen" is (And believe me I hate that term every bit as much as you do, and I specifically chose to use the term to show how repugnant it really is).

[Midlodemocrat]

41. You are missing the point of my post.

While I understand that you are attempting to empathize with women who have had to deal with the system and the humiliation and degradation, your experience is light years away.

Here's a similar metaphor. My husband had life threatening surgery last year, but survived and is doing fine. For me to state that I 'understand' how my friend Jackie feels as a widow whose husband was killed by a drunk driver is ridiculous. I felt fear and trepidation when my husband was in surgery because it was extremely serious, but I certainly can't imagine what she felt when the policeman pulled up to her work and told her that her husband had been killed. I can empathize with her because I have lost both parents and a sister in law who left a 16 month old baby, but I'm not in her shoes, not even for 10 minutes.

And, I hope your knee gets better. It sounds painful.

[Maddy McCall]

43. Try as you might, you can never put yourselves in their shoes.

You can see light at the end of the tunnel. You will heal: your life will go on.

Not so for people trapped in poverty or disability. I think the most excruciating part of poverty and disability isn't the stress or the physical/mental pain, but the fact that there is little hope that it will ever change.

[Bjorn Against]

46. That is why I said "trying"

No one can ever fully understand the struggles faced by others unless they experience it in full, but we need to at least try. I made it clear more than once that I would heal and I am not in the same situation as many others, but I believe it is important to try to think of what it would be like to be in their shoes from time to time. You may never get a full understanding, but a partial understanding is much better than no understanding.

[Maddy McCall]

49. I agree with Midlo's comparison of your post to politicians living at Cabrini Green.

I don't think that you can ever understand.

[Bjorn Against]

51. As I said you can't fully understand...

But you can try to understand, and not enough people do that.

I don't think that attacking people who at least make an effort to see things from another person's perspective is going to help people to think about the needs of others at all. If we want to see change we need to recognize the problems faced by others, we may never get a full understanding but I would much rather have a partial understanding than no understanding.

[Midlodemocrat]

56. Thanks, Maddy. That is what I was trying to convey.

The poverty itself might actually be secondary to the despair that the poverty will never end. Seeing young people with no hope in their eyes while you are giving them food at the food pantry led me to believe that the problem was far invasive and debilitating than the immediate need for something to eat. The despair in those young eyes is not something I will soon forget.

[hfojvt]

27. only one injured knee though?

After my knee surgery, I hopped around my house for a couple of weeks, even going up and down stairs (crab-walking on one leg and two hands). My left leg started to get sore though. I was afraid I would end up needing surgery on the other knee before I was done.

Good topic and post though, and some good responses in the thread, but there is a difference between welfare and disability. It did seem obvious to me though in a small Wisconsin town, that a woman could work in a factory there or she could have a baby and get AFDC and both options paid about the same. Not sure if alot of people were doing that, but in that small town it was all to easy to be aware of people who were milking the system.

[JTFrog]

29. I'm sure the

women in that town were always thinking, hey, I don't want to work at that damn factory when I could just go get pregnant and get AFDC instead! I can beat the system! :eyes:

What a very ignorant point of view. And as a former welfare queen, let me tell you that I'm appalled to read that kind of crap on this board.

[mntleo2]

33. Uhhhh Wisconsin is one of the most abusive to women

...I hate to tell you but, that state is known as making single mothers some of the poorest in the nation, aside from Mississippi. It was so bad that mothers in need there formed a an internationally known group called "The Welfare Warriors". Check out some of their stories here: http://www.welfarewarriors.org . These brave women completed the long walk that MLK did not make because of his assassination from Davis Mississippi to Washington DC with the amazing East Indian activist, Aruandi Roy, in order to draw attention to the plight of welfare mothers ~ a lot of them from your state. When they got to DC they built a tent city to commemorate the tent city built in the 1930's for the poor.

Would that we had the same punitive attitudes WI and MS has toward poor toward the the rich who are the real welfare queens, the rich who are living off the rest of us by collecting taxes or not paying them with no need as these mothers and children desperately have!

If you read on the website the letter to the National Organization for Women about N.O.W.'s endorsement of Hillary Clinton, who has gone around the country with "Holy Joe" Lieberman touting how wonderful Welfare Reform supposedly is (that was devised by some horrible rich men from the ultra-conservative Heritage Foundation who wrote the original bill), you will get an idea of why these women had to form this group.

Also read there about the woman whose husband with a police record who beat her to whom that state is granting custody of their 9 month old breast feeding child to him instead of the mother because they are so cheap they would rather place a child with a known wife beater and abuser with a police record rather than with the mother because then they would not have to support the child and her ~ or so they think because some of the most notorious abuse cases come from fathers with custody who leave their children with another woman (girlfriends or female relatives who usually already have enough responsibility of their own) instead of doing the care themselves.

Nobody is allowed to collect welfare while working unless the jobs they work are so badly paid that it allows mothers to still get help. Your small town should instead look at the crappy wages and lack of benefits the factory owner pays these hard working women. Your small town gossips should whisper about the breaks the owners get that cost you money, they should scream about how ONE rich person will reap far more than 50 mothers on welfare combined ~ all on your dime.

Also, next time you hear people whispering about that "welfare queen" abusing your disgustingly abusive state welfare system and so you have something to say to them that might shut their pie holes, I am going to quote what I said in my "Welfare Queen" post:

9. Because we do not value parenting as actually contributing to society instead of taking from it, we think a minimum wage job is "more important" than a child (few people stop to think what this does ~ were YOU less important than a $5.75 an hour job?) instead of seeing that raising the next generation IS doing something quite valuable for society, therefore parents, especially single parents are left out there with few resources or support of any kind.

10. Nobody will tell the childless people and well off who sniff and says they "should never have to support somebody else's kids" that, since they are now paying their parent's social security and with their thinking, then why should those kids pay social security to these complainers, or fight in their wars when they are too old and oh, they better learn how to dig that sewage trench with their cane and how to wire the neighborhood transformer vaults otherwise "somebody else's kids" will be doing that when these complainers get too old and the unsupported generation should not have to support anyone who did not support them ...

This will shut them up and make them think some healthier thoughts about who needs the support from the rest of us.

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[hfojvt]

36. I lived there before welfare 'reform' took effect

I probably think my friend who made it his life's ambition to get on mental disability is more typical than is true in reality. Most of the people I knew on government assistance were males, on disability. But this kinda struck me from the letter to Hillary:

"She believes in funneling millions of single moms into dead-end work that no one willingly accepts."

Apparently these women will become worse off if they are forced to take the same kind of job that I was working.

Of course, it is absolutely impossible to make it in one of those jobs if you have to pay for daycare too. I knew a number of women in their mid twenties who were living at their parents' home with their children.

I appreciate your 2 cents, although we may not agree completely, me being a dog person and all. But still, one of the underdogs, a single guy in 'dead-end work that no one willingly accepts.'

[mntleo2]

57. You Are MoreThan Welcome

...most appreciated is your interest in the matter as a single man. This means a lot!

I might add that you are so right. The "jobs no one else will take" mostly means that, for a single person who can barely make it in those McJobs if at all, it is hard enough. For a person with kids it is a recipe for misery and disaster because the kids do not benefit at all from the parent's job financially (most homeless families are working families as an example), there is little or no health care or food assistance for them, and they also do without a parent they desperately need to guide them, which is where they then begin to get into trouble. In my area we have a Boys and Girl's Club for older kids, but the problem with them is that, once a kid is around 11 years old, they cannot *make* the kid stay there with them and so the child is left to roam the streets, if they choose ~ and they often choose to do that. With McJobs, as you probably know, they are mostly odd hours and while the morning hours are better for mothers in this situation, often if Mom is not home to get them off, the kids don't go to school, she is held in contempt, she loses her job trying to straighten it out (lots of phone calls she gets and has to make at work, juvenile court dates to make, etc), and the cycle never ends.

IMO people without kids or upper income people with kids who resent "supporting other people's kids" need to understand that raising a family IS going to benefit all of us. In social security alone where the next generation will contribute to your old age benefits. They will also be the ones to take care of the infrastructure, fight in your wars, maintain your community. I would ask especially childless people: "Who is going to take care of YOU when you are old? With that resentful thinking nobody should offer support while these kids are being raised, then you should be prepared to just get up and change your own damn diaper and make sure you are a multi-millionaire so you can afford someone else to do it, otherwise "someone else's kids" are going to do that for you with state assistance ..."

Also God gave those kids to a parent for a REASON ~ and it is *not* so she has to give them to a daycare to raise them. At this time a mother is forced into the workplace when a baby is barely 3 months old ~ in WI they are pushing mothers to leave their children at birth ~ and punishing them when they don't find work by taking away any support, even if there is no daycre for a newborn or any work. Thus the babies do not get the enormous lifelong benefit of breast feeding nor the bonding that babies need, which if it is not done, will cause these kids to grow up unable to bond with anyone else.

Not to denigrate the people who work hard for a wage, but one might look at it this way: Which is more important work for the future of this country ~ to make some rich person richer while you ruin your body and mind working for them for a pittance, where that person can dispose of you at a moment's notice, send your job overseas if they wish or simply close shop so THEY can keep whatever is left but leave you without a job ~ or raising children to make sure all of us have a safety net if that happens, and who will run this country when you are gone?

Hope this helps you also speak out for others and perhaps we can turn around the "stinkin' thinkin' around who our tax dollars should support and why ...



My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[Maddy McCall]

44. .

:thumbsup:

[Maddy McCall]

42. "but there is a difference between welfare and disability"

I agree. And there's a huge difference in an injury with temporary trauma, and lifelong disability with no hope of ever getting better.

About your second paragraph--factory work even at minimum wage does not pay nearly as much as TANF does. (AFDC no longer exists, and when it did in Mississippi (until 1996), cash assistance for a single-parent with one child was $96, add $56 for each additional child. Food stamps were roughly $150 for one child, add $100 for each child. If AFDC in Wisconsin was on par with factory work salary, I'd be hugely surprised. Even in "right to work" Mississippi, I'm sure that many women would much rather work for $1500/mo. than receive $250-$400 in cash/food assistance. Usually, in the welfare vs. work decision, child care is the stickler, though.)

[hfojvt]

53. I think you said that backwards

"factory work even at minimum wage does not pay nearly as much as TANF does."

However, this job:
"I'm sure that many women would much rather work for $1500/mo. than receive $250-$400 in cash/food assistance" pays $9 an hour.

That may be close to normal now, but I was working in 1994 for $5.4 an hour, which is $936 a month gross (and Wal-mart and grocery stores did not pay any better). Take some taxes out and it drops to $825 or so. I think people on disability that I knew were getting about $600 a month and I am not sure if that adds in the value of section 8 housing and food stamps.

Those 'street people' were my friends (at least I was always lending them money), but it seemed like we made ALMOST the same amount of money except I worked full time and they did not.

[Maddy McCall]

39. This thread is an insult to people who HAVE had to go through the...

humiliation of applying for and receiving government assistance.

Poor you. You hurt your knee and now you think you know what it feels like to be a "welfare queen."

I hope your knee gets better soon, and I empathize with you (BTDT - broken tib/fib in 2002, but never considered myself to have any understanding of the difficulties women on welfare face, just because I was, though badly injured, mildy inconvenienced for a few months).

But that you consider yourself a "welfare queen" is laughable and insulting to the women who deal with poverty and "the system" every day.

Don't give a damn who flames me.

[Bjorn Against]

50. I am trying to point out how sickening the term "welfare queen" is.

I quite simply do not understand why people are attacking me for this post. I have made it clear numerous times that I am NOT in the same situation as people who are actually on welfare, but I am still in need of assistance. Other people who are in need of far more assistance are not only being denied that assistance, but they are being mocked and ridiculed as welfare queens. I am pointing out what the term "welfare queen" really is, it is a derogatory term for the people who suffer every day of their lives. They are the impoverished, they are the children, and they are the disabled. Some of them may be in temporary need, some are in permanent need, but they all need assistance and I am trying to emphasize with them.

[hfojvt]

54. empathize you mean - show empathy

although one might have said sympathize in the past, but now pity itself is considered pitiful.

Although you are also trying to emphasize the troubles they've seen.

[femrap]

40. Great post....and I appreciate

that you see the misogyny of the system and point to it so others can see it as well.

Keep that knee elevated!!

[LWolf]

45. Please see a doctor for that knee.

When I was 26, I sprained my knee. Hopping over a 4 foot fence. Just like I used to do all the time when I was a kid, but this time the upper leg swung over the fence and the lower leg stayed pointing in the original direction.

I went to my hmo and saw a "physicians assistant" who asked me to do some deep knee bends.

Right.

He xrayed it, diagnosed a severe sprain, and said I needed to do physical therapy every day for 6 weeks. The only time the physical therapist was in was from 9am-noon.

I was working a part time job that fed my kids, and guess what? The hours were 9am - noon. No paid leave available, so I didn't do the physical therapy. I hobbled with a cane for 6 months. Eventually I was able to walk without a limp, but the knee would periodically "wobble" without warning, causing extreme pain and some strains. I never again was able to actually PLANT that foot, but the wobbles grew more infrequent over the years. 21 years later, the knee only wobbles once or twice a year, but the OTHER knee has osteo-arthritis. It's been bearing more than it's fair share this whole time.

Even those of us who have jobs and insurance don't always get the assistance we need. I, too, would like to know that we take care of our people when they need us.

I'm glad you have family to step in and help right now. Please do see a doctor. The rest of your ambulatory life is depending on you.