fat is a statement..

[undergroundpanther]

Among his many accomplishments, Quetelet first derived the concept of the ‘average man.’ Because most people congregated around average points in their physical characteristics, Quetelet believed that deviants, criminals or troublemakers could be identified by their physical abnormalities….The farther someone was from the average weight, the more they violated other social norms, and the more they could be monitored, institutionalized, or controlled.
http://fatfu.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/the-trouble-with-normal-weight-part-2/



FAT Is a Statement


Fat is a statement. My fat says of me that "I am here"; "I need and I want space"; "I need to feel sheltered and protected"; "I need to feel safe"; and I want you to see me while I hide.

Fat is a reaction to pain, emotional turmoil, stress and loss. Fat is literally something to hold onto to and it is soothingly-soft, cozyly-comforting.

My fat, inner-child that it is on the outside of me, wants you to know who I am. While I am hiding and terrified that you may actually find out who I really am, underneath it all. My fat feels big enough and secure enough to connect to the world. Fat freely flows to and fro -- bounces brightly back and forth going with me wherever I go. No judgment, my fat softly surrounds me -- with constant care it caresses me - touches me and rests easily on me. I feel my fat and my fat - it feels for me.

Why does it matter to others that I am fat? Why do many condemn me as "less than" for that? Why is there such harsh and negative judgement from those who are smaller than I am -- from those who are not fat? What do they fear?

More people need to realize life is not a pair of pantyhose or a sweat-shirt -- life is not a thing -- it is a journey of experience and being -- life is not one-size-fits-all Part of my being - is being fat.

Feelings and a lifetime of pain and experience rest nestled in my fat. My fat is a part of who I am, where I have been and what has happened to me. Fat is me. Fat is the often the first thing people see when they look at me. I am fat. I am also much more than my fat. Fat is valid. I am fat - I am valid.

If you feel the need to judge, criticize, or belittle me for being fat and for refusing to be ashamed of that -- rather than worry about the size of my body have you checked the size of your mind lately? If you are fat-phobic or fat-prejudiced I do not have to be there with you. I have the right to experience the scope, size and shape of my body, and my reality free of discrimination. In spite of the fat me you see, I am a person just like you. What is wrong with physical difference?
http://www.soulselfhelp.on.ca/pfat.html

I once worked with a woman who told her husband when they got married that if she got fat, he could "take her out back and shoot her."
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2004/04/08/fatpho.DTL

(In a fat phobic country is it conform to the norm or suffer disappear and die,what does the hatred of fat say about American health nazis and fat phobics and bigots? .)

[Buzz Clik]

1. I predict no less than 10 deleted messages from this thread... and lots of anger.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Why

It's merely a sentiment...

[Buzz Clik]

4. I agree. The deleted comments won't be mine.

Generally, these threads don't go well. Lots of hypersensitivity and insensitivity come together to make an explosive mix.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. Because There's An Argument Of How Much Being Fat Is Choice And How Much Being Fat Is Destiny

I'll watch...

[eridani]

62. If you are genetically prone to weight gain,, choosing to have a life--

--inevitably results in being fat. Sure, you can make attaining and maintaining average weight the first and most important priority in your life, and a few will actually succeed at that. Mostly people get distracted by family, work and community though.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

You Were Right

Who knew?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

100. You Were Right

Who knew?

[EST]

3. Fat...

Fat is an organ. It is an organ that responds to certain stimuli and there is, apparently, something in the environment that is encouraging this necessary and important organ to malfunction and, goiter-like, to show that malfunction by operating and enlarging under conditions when that is not needed.

Attempts to make people suffering from this problem into, themselves, being the problem are an important gage of another problem--ignorance and bigotry.

[Warpy]

6. Inside every skinny person

there is a fat person being squeezed to death.

:evilgrin:

[Captain Angry]

8. I saw a comedian once...

She said that the reason skinny people were always uptight or angry is because they were hungry!

:-)

[KurtNYC]

22. Why can't acceptance and affirmation of large people come without

attacks on underweight people?

The judgements made against under-weight people are equal to those made against the large. Skinny people are often told by others that they are mentally ill (eg. "anorexic").

The Greeks had it right when they said: The oppressed oppress."

[girl gone mad]

49. Just bias in the other direction.

I'm a skinny person who eats whenever she's hungry. And I'm not an uptight bitch, either.

I don't know why it's necessary to defend fat people by picking on skinny people.

[Wcross]

19. LOL- good one Warpy! n/t

[Annces]

7. I think there are other ways to view this

Some cultures think being large is beautiful, such as the Samoans.

I was always naturally skinny until I entered my 30s. People are nutso when it comes to weight issues. I think if you are healthy, that is the main factor.

[Katherine Brengle]

9. Kudos to that. I found an old fitness magazine in my bathroom cabinet a couple of hours

ago, and out of morbid curiosity I flipped through it a bit. The publisher, who is Robert Kennedy (it's Oxygen magazine), writes a little editorial page every issue, and had this to say in this issue:

"Coming back on the plane, I had to buy my lunch. No more freebies. 'It's Subway day today,' I was told by the overweight flight attendant who could hardly squeeze her food trolley - or her hips - down the aisle."

Fat hatred is not only acceptable in our society, but encouraged. This man is publishing a magazine that is supposedly dedicated to women's health and fitness - with a lot of emphasis on the importance of muscle and weight training - and right there on page 22 is a paragraph teaching those women to hate overweight people - and possibly themselves, if they are not patriarchally-approved hawt.

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. So fat is statement of narcissistic tripe?

Wow. How very revolutionary.

"I am here." (Good for fucking you)

"I need and want space." ((Fine. Pay for it like the rest of us. Two seats = two tickets. Now you have your space, but you don't get it for free.)

"I need to feel sheltered and protected." (Join the fucking club)

"I need to feel safe." (Grow the fuck up)

Sounds like a self-centered asshole to me. If that's fat's "statement," I'm not sure how it diverges from the usual insults.

[Mz Pip]

13. All of those statements

could apply to just about anybody! Hardly specific to fat people.

I am here. (Applies to anyone still breathing)

I need and want space. (Kind of hard not to)

I need to feel sheltered and protected. (Me, too. So do my cats)

I need to feel safe. (Pretty much appies to everyone who isn't an adrenalin junkie).

Mz Pip
:dem:

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. Yeah, and that begs the question

of why the article attributes them to the fat statement?

[Skittles]

151. maybe because fat folk would like to be treated decently like we all do?

just a big fat f***ing guess

[Beausoir]

40. How surprising that you would show up in this thread.

:eyes:

[alcibiades_mystery]

94. And you are?

:shrug:

While its creepy and weird that you seem to think you know me, since I've never seen you before (or you were thoroughly unmemorable), I'll take it as a compliment.

[AZBlue]

54. Since you like quoting the OP so much:

"If you feel the need to judge, criticize, or belittle me for being fat and for refusing to be ashamed of that -- rather than worry about the size of my body have you checked the size of your mind lately?" (Bold mine)
(What a nasty, hateful, bitter person you are. I feel sorry for you.)

[alcibiades_mystery]

95. That's sweet

The old "You're so bitter I feel sorry for you" gambit. That ole shit was played out back in 1997. But whatever. As it stands, I was not "judging" or "criticizing" or "belittling" anyone for being fat. I was deriding the writer for the utterly trifling set of statements he or she attributes to "fat." They're stupid. I mean, seriously. Stop being so clever and think through it. Fat says "I want to feel safe." Does that make any sense at all? And if it does, how does it distinguish fat folks from anyone else? Doesn't a toned body also say "I want to feel safe?"

The point is that the set of STATEMENTS are a pack of narcissistic rubbish. "I'm here and I want space!" I mean, you can't seriously think that that's a virtuous attitude worthy of defending? It's the attitude of a self-centered douchebag, fer chrissakes. But, you don't like ME. You think I'm downing "fat" people. You're all up in arms about it, so you're going to post a response attacking me personally, with that pathetic little move. Fine. Whatever. It's just silly, the whole thing. "I have a need to feel protected." Jesus Christ, AZBlue. That's the intellectual level of it?!?

There are plenty of great studies on bodies coming out of our universities, and there's even a whole sub-discipline of "fat studies" emerging. I can guarantee you that NONE of them are as bone stupid as the piece referenced in the OP. Find a good piece on fat, and I'll call it good. Find a trifling and stupid piece on fat, and I'll call it trifling and stupid. That's how it works, ace.

[LWolf]

11. Fat can also be a shield.

A female who grows up with no male family, male protectors, but plenty of male predators, knows that fat makes her invisible to the predators.

[pitohui]

20. fat people don't get molested?

i'm not fat so maybe i should stand down and shut up but in my observation that's bullcrap

some predators preferentially target those who the police and other authorities won't believe and that includes fat people

if you think fat makes you invisible, i'm guessing you're not

[AZBlue]

55. The post wasn't referring to molestation.

I am fat and I'll tell you for a fact - because I've been fat only the past couple of years - you're not hit on, you're not approached by men, men don't think of you sexually and you're not sexually harassed in any manner or form like a thin female is. I'm exactly the same person except my clothing size is larger; my make-up, my hair, my bearing, everything else is the same as it was before. But, the difference in reaction from men is startling. I'm actually writing a book on it.

[Beausoir]

74. Please...we don't need a book like that. You gained a few pounds and can't get a date? Look inside.

As a beautiful fat woman, I can state with supreme confidence that men DO hit on me. I AM approached by men. And men DO think of me sexually.

I'm not everyman's cup of tea, but I don't need to be. I am strong, healthy, long-legged, full-busted and lush. My husband delights in my curves.

I am smart and witty, well-read, well-traveled and can cook like nobody's bidness.


Your problem is not your weight. It is your perception of yourself.

[pitohui]

138. ok fair enough

in another thread the OP was a transgender victim of child molestation so i didn't know that storyline had been abandoned

:-)

[LWolf]

108. Let me be graphic.

I had no father, brother, or other male family members. I learned about men from my interaction with the men around me, but they weren't family. I was molested at age 10 by a neighbor, and age 14 by my mother's boyfriend. I wasn't "fat" then. I was physically fit and more mature than my age, with slim hips and a C-cup bra. Socially, with my peers, males saw me as a physical conquest, but avoided getting to know the person I was, because I was too "smart." I was smart and independent, so I didn't make good friend or girlfriend material. So I spent my developing years fending off efforts at conquest, and, outside of what they valued about my body, being a social outcast. By they time I was 12, I couldn't walk to school, to the bus, or anywhere else on my own without howls, catcalls, etc. coming from males I passed. Males of all ages.

Yes. Fat makes you invisible. I learned that by accident in my adulthood. It began with the first marriage, where my first husband WANTED me to be fat, so other men wouldn't look at me. Of course, that didn't stop him from looking elsewhere. A metabolic disorder has made fat an ongoing battle for most of my later adulthood. Sometimes I'm winning, sometimes I'm losing.

Interestingly enough, "fat" makes it possible for me to work with men without worrying that they want anything from me but my brain and my work skills. I've never been "hit" on when fat.

When I said "predator," I didn't mean rapists. I meant men who see women as a sexual object and a possible sexual conquest first, their humanity being peripheral to that.

[CoffeeCat]

41. You are so right...

...I am a survival of sexual abuse, and I've met hundreds of "survivors" during healing journey.

One reoccurring theme among females who were preyed on by family members--is how many of them put
on weight to protect themselves. Food probably comforted them and anesthetized them. I've heard
many survivors say that they felt that if they made themselves overweight or what they assumed would
be unattractive to the predator--that he would leave them alone.

My therapist has commented that this is common in those who suffer from sexual abuse.

Gaining weight (or sometimes developing anorexia or bulimia) is a way of gaining some sort
of control when you aren't even in control of who touches your body.

Thanks for your thoughts and your post

[LWolf]

109. You are welcome.

I recognize that theme, because it's played in my own life.

:hug:

[Beausoir]

42. Christ...what a stupid post. Yeah..rape is all about the skinny young girls.

Tell that to the 80 year old women who get raped.

You need to do some thinking about your logic.

[AZBlue]

56. No, actualy you do.

I'm guessing you're not fat.
Check out my post #55.

[LWolf]

110. You are so far off base I don't know that

an explanation from me will help you find reality, but here goes:

1. Not all predators are rapists, and I didn't refer specifically to rape. Those of us who have experienced men who don't value us as human beings, but only as a sexual conquest, who have spent time fending off the circling sharks who hope to get lucky and report back to the rest about it; those of us who have been bribed/threatened at work for sexual favors; there are some among us who consider sexual harassment a form of predation.

2. See post # 41 for other examples of what I am talking about.

[eridani]

60. Actually it doesn't

It makes you excessively visible to bullies, unfortunately.

[LWolf]

107. That was not my experience.

Of course, I'm not talking about childhood. I didn't experience fat until adulthood, and some of that is related to other health issues.

[bleedingheart]

12. how about healthy? I have a friend with Type 2 diabetes that is probably

going to lose either one or both feet...

Her weight is a primary factor in her diabetes.

[emilyg]

14. As a nurse - I worry about the health aspect when I see fat people.

[w8liftinglady]

33. emily-I agree with you,but...

you know there is a double standard when it comes to obese patients.I work on a surgical telemetry unit that has just started gastric bypass surgery.My co-workers,for the most part,are empathetic.Most of us have had the surgery.I have seen discrimination against obese patients firsthand.It's kind of sad.The patients are apologetic for their size.I try to make them feel like they aren't a burden.We need to do more research on why so many people have become obese.There has to be some external influence.

[Critters2]

34. It couldn't be too little exercise and too much fat and sugar?

I hate to tell ya, but the research has been done....tons of it. This is no mystery.

[w8liftinglady]

37. In my case-that wasn't it.

Like I have said...I was a nationally ranked powerlifter.I was huge,while eating the typical protein diet that most weightlifters eat.I am no saint,but I worked out harder than 90% of the folks I know.After some drastic diets,I had bypass surgery.It has changed my life.

[AlCzervik]

46. good for you and i'm glad your life is better now.

i've struggled for year with my weight, literally and after having an eating disorder for 10 years and getting therapy i stopped trying to lose weight. Well i'm 14 years into recovery and finally decided it was time to do something about my health and over the past 2 years i've lost 85 pounds. I do know why i was overweight, i know my triggers and in taking this long to lose that weight i feel like i have a much better chance of keeping it off. Anyhow for the first time in my life i'm in a single digit clothing size and i am no longer borderline diabetic.

cheers to you for your weight loss and the good work you do.

[AZBlue]

58. Oh god, here we go.

It's so easy to be skinny, isn't it?

Genetic make up doesn't play a role, does it? Neither do food allergies, various metabolic problems, insulin insensitivity, stress, chemicals and toxins in our food, heredity, psychological issues, poverty, environment, and more.

Wow...thanks for figuring that our for us!
You're soooo smart!!
:sarcasm::sarcasm:

[Shakespeare]

64. Just because you may be inclined to gain weight, does NOT mean you have to be obese.

No, it's not easy. I have PCOS, which brings with it serious--and seriously frustrating--metabolic issues (including, among others, insulin insensitivity). I have two choices: I can fight like hell to maintain a healthy weight (not skinny, but certainly not fat), or I can stop trying so hard and just accept all the health issues obesity brings with it. Nobody who is obese is healthy, period.

I have to work out harder and longer, and watch what I eat more closely, than most people around me, but the payoff is absolutely worth it (and I *feel* so much better now than when I'm a little heavier). It does NOT take time away from family or community or anything else I want to do--it's a matter of it being important to me and educating myself on nutritional issues. Some of us got dealt a lousy hand when it comes to weight issues, but you do not have to give up and be obese.

[AZBlue]

68. Not true.

My mother is a perfect example. She eats 1200-1500 calories a day. Fruits, veges, lean meats, fiber, etc. She used to be an extrememly active person (until the weight finally slowed her down). She has a metabolic problem that medicine can't fix - and no matter what, she will gain weight. It's completely out of her - and the doctors' - control.

[Shakespeare]

69. Then she needs to see a doctor who will put her on glucophage.

If that truly is her problem, there's medication that helps with that. My blood sugar and insulin levels are not quite what they need to be to go on metformin (glucophage), so my only option is to stay on a 1000 calorie a day diet, no carbs, no sugar, no dairy. And exercise a minimum of one hour a day. But for anybody with severe insulin insensitivity, metformin is a godsend. And it will help you lose weight.

Nothing is completely out of anybody's control.

[Beausoir]

75. Glucophage is a brutal drug with vicious side-effects. Dr. Frist? Is that you?

Please don't diagnose and recommend drugs over the internet.

I've been on glucophage. It is a hellish drug.

[Shakespeare]

77. Very few people experience side effects with it.

If you did, that's unfortunate, but don't make it out to be some kind of bad medication, because it isn't.

And don't fucking compare me to that butcher.

I know all about glucophage--for most who are on it, the side effects, if any, go away after a few weeks. It's not a "brutal" drug, it's a goddamn lifesaver.

edited to add: Here's now NOT bad it is--women who have PCOS are now being kept on it while pregnant, because it's been determined to have NO adverse side effects for a fetus or for the mother. Yeah, that's a really dangerous drug. :eyes:

[Beausoir]

79. "Very few"? Where are you getting your facts?

[Shakespeare]

81. Let's see; from memory, about 30% experience initial intestinal discomfort...

...and about 5% experience side effects too severe to take it on a regular basis. I'm always right on the verge of being put on this drug (and probably will be someday), so I've done my homework. Like I said, I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience with it, but that in no way makes it a bad drug. For those of us who have serious insulin insensitivity, it's one of the safer things we can be put on to deal with it.

Ironically, if I were to go up to a higher calorie diet and stop working out (and consequently gain weight), I'd be put on it almost immediately.

[Beausoir]

84. So...you have never taken the drug...yet you recommend it to others?

I don't get it.

[Shakespeare]

86. I didn't recommend it. I said if your mother is truly insulin resistant....

...then the protocol is usually (as of the last five or so years) to prescribe glucophage to treat the insulin insensitivity. It's one of the lower-risk diabetic drugs, and is used off-label VERY frequently for PCOS. That's not a diagnosis, just passing along info.

I'm actually waiting on labwork right now (that I have to go through every couple of years) to find out if I go on it or not. I'd prefer NOT to have to go on any daily med, but I'm also prepared to deal with the initial side effects if my doctor does decide to put me on it, because I know it'll improve my health in the long term.

[Scout]

104. that's your choice...

"stay on a 1000 calorie a day diet, no carbs, no sugar, no dairy. And exercise a minimum of one hour a day"

but many people would not choose to live that way (exist, not live, in my opinion) and you have no right to condemn them for not choosing the same as you just to satisfy someone else's expectations.

[Shakespeare]

125. I didn't condemn anybody. I just get tired of the "I can't help it" excuse.

And as a matter of fact, I eat quite well on the restricted diet. Lots of lean meat (salmon, chicken) and fresh vegetables, and a little fresh fruit that's low on the glycemic index (blueberries, pears, nectarines). And you've got it backwards--I live, I don't just "exist," and I feel much, much better because of what I do to maintain my health. If I weren't so careful about it, my health would be lousy, and I'd feel physically bad all the time. Instead, I'm in great shape, I feel better, have no health problems, and look a good ten years younger than I am.

If that's just "existing," I'll take it, thanks very much.

Oh, and YOU are the one making bullshit judgments by assuming I do this for anybody else but myself. :rofl:

[Beausoir]

78. If you truly have PCOS...you have NO business lecturing others on weight.

I have PCOS...diagnosed through pathology reports from my extracted ovaries and uterus.

You should know better than to lecture ANYONE with PCOS about being fat.

And your statement about "just giving up" and becoming obese is ridiculous.

[Shakespeare]

80. I was diagnosed in 1982, when I was 17.

After a laparoscopy and a week's stay in the hospital for COUNTLESS tests to determine what those masses were on my ovaries, and why I was having irregular periods. I've dealt with this cursed disorder (and its myriad effects) all my adult life, thank you very much.

I wasn't "lecturing" anybody. But if you want to claim that nobody can do anything about obesity, well you go right ahead. I am living proof that that's not true, and I'm about as metabolically fucked as a person can be.

[Beausoir]

82. You set up a strawman agrument. Nobody is claiming that "nothing can be done". We just don't leap

to judge, criticize and offer internet diagnoses.

AS far as your PCOS? Been there...done that.

[Shakespeare]

83. That's not a strawman.

There was no criticism in my statement. Just pointing out that there's a difference between being a little overweight and being obese, and that lifestyle choices most certainly have a connection there.

Glad you've "been there, done that" with PCOS. It fucking sucks, doesn't it? Not only have I had to fight tooth and nail my whole life to keep my weight down, I've been dumped twice by men who didn't want to be with somebody potentially infertile. Yeah, it's a real fun disorder.

[Beausoir]

88. Ok. You got me with the infertile thing. Sorry if I am busting your chops about this.

It's just a real sore spot. Pehaps I am venting a little, on you.

Fortunately, I have been able to adopt 5 kids and my family is complete. I can understand the pain of wanting to have a family but not being able to complete that dream.


I just don't like generalizations about fat people. Been there..done that, too.

[Shakespeare]

90. Well, it's not a generalization. That's why in my initial post....

...my first words were "no, it's not easy."

I absolutely recognize what a fight it can be to keep one's weight down. I'm a living example of that, and it's the hardest thing I deal with on a daily basis. Unspeakably difficult. But because I DO work so hard at it--and I'm someone who's a very good cook who loves to eat--I'm also a little sensitive to people who use the "I can't help it" excuse. Usually, they can help it a little, even if they've reached a point where they're so discouraged they no longer feel they can help it.

I was very lucky to be born with a pretty face, but I was also born with this goddamn hormone disorder that means (aside from the fertility issues that I truly can't do anything about) I have to eat a very low-calorie, very restricted diet, and I have to exercise like a fiend IF I want to stay in "normal" range. I've seen what obesity does to one's health, because I have several relatives who are obese. I have made the decision that it's better for me to fight it and stay healthier than maybe indulge a little more and end up extremely heavy and with all kinds of health problems. That's my choice in the face of a hormone disorder that makes it really, really hard to maintain that.

While everybody's getting made at me for saying yeah, most people could try a little harder, I'm telling you that I absolutely, definitely understand how hard it is.

[Beausoir]

112. I take your point.

And wish you well in your wellness.

[Skittles]

152. yes

I detest the assumption that what works for one must work for all

[eridani]

51. As a weightlifter, did you know Cheryl Haworth?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheryl_Haworth

Haworth's appeal, however, extends beyond the sport of weightlifting. A versatile athlete, she can run forty yards in 5.5 seconds, jump 30-inch vertical leaps, and perform front, back, and sideway splits. She is also a talented artist. She graduated from the Savannah Arts Academy in 2001 and studies historic preservation at the Savannah College of Art and Design. Much like legendary Georgia strongman Paul Anderson, with whom she is sometimes compared, Haworth has been an innovator. She seems destined to serve as an enduring role model for women in sports.

Not bad for 300 lbs! Wow!

[eridani]

57. Except you have it completely ass-backwards

Weight gain in adulthood is a symptom of being genetically prone to diabetes.



The above is from my HMO newsletter. Unfortunately they haven't gotten up the nerve to state the obvious conclusion--being prone to type II diabetes causes obesity. It is inevitable if you live in a society where there is enough to eat and most work is sedentary. Being careful of foods with high glycemic index and being as active as you have the time to be can postpone the condition and help you manage it better if you don't die of something else before becoming symptomatic.

It is such a common condition ( ~30% of the population, though much less in coastal regions) because it is beneficial under the conditions of periodic semistarvation that have obtained throughout most of human history. Women prone to type II tend to be more likely to have babies weighing 10 lbs or more--but that's in our society where we ususally have enough to eat. Under conditions of semistarvation, women like that are more likely to be able to give birth to normal-sized babies, and they will not be very much fatter than the average.

[Scout]

105. "being prone to type II diabetes causes obesity"

thank you, that is exactly right.

i never had a weight problem as a child, but once i hit puberty, it's been a slow steady gain, with a couple times when i tried really, really hard and lost 30-40 pounds ... then eventually ended up fatter than before.

[David__77]

15. I have friends who are morbidly obese.

I encourage them, when asked, to seek solutions to this condition, first of all because it is causing them health problems. They are not vigorous or energetic. Second, the weight is inhibiting them from achieving happiness. It is not their aesthetic ideal. My one large friend would never date a morbidly obese man, because she doesn't like that. I want them to achieve happiness. I primarily view weight issues as a medical problem.

I appreciate people coming to terms with their innate tendencies toward obesity, but I do believe that this acceptance should not preclude attempts to control weight and lead a healthy lifestyle.

[treestar]

35. I'm healthy

I'm vigorous and energetic enough, if not, it's due to depression I suffered from when thin to an even greater extent (some of my weight gain is attributable to SSRIs).

I don't care if other people's aesthetic ideals are met.

Acceptance is up to the person in question. If someone wants to stay at a weight they are at, they accept that, so it's not up to you to say they should have a "healthier lifestyle."

Also you can't judge a person's healthiness of lifestyle by weight alone. When I was thin I had the same problem you had; fear of being fat and insisting I would be in total control of that and therefore, it could never happen to me. Thin does not prove a healthy lifestyle. Some people maintain it with smoking. Others with anorexia and other illnesses. Consider that witch Ann Coulter.

I ate way more when I was thin. Way more. I just had a different metabolism and burned it up. I eat way healthier now and work out for an hour every day.

[David__77]

39. I realize the truth of what you are saying.

I did not mean to imply that all people who are heavy have significant health problems. I was just speaking about two of my friends, who, again, had solicited my opinion. They, indeed, do have health problems that are likely related to their weight.

[tomreedtoon]

16. Why choose fat as something to be proud of?

This reminds me of people who choose one thing to be proud of that they probably aren't responsible for. "I'm black and I'm proud!" was always misinterpreted as meaning, "I'm proud because I'm black!"]\

Why not choose something meaningful to be proud of? Like that you help people in trouble, or you support progressive candidates, or that you give a few bucks to the legless Vietnam or Iraq vet on the street?

[jpgray]

18. Once obese, troubled metabolism and food addiction can be near impossible hurdles to overcome

Not to mention the addictive nature of a sedentary lifestyle. While being miserable and ostracized for one's weight is a terrible tragedy no one should go through, I submit that most obese folks would be happier and healthier at a lower weight. The terrible difficulty is finding a safe way to -get- to that lower weight, and the natural defensiveness that -anyone- would feel about being at that weight. The stereotypical accusations of a lack of willpower or a lack of personal responsibility miss the point, I think, but fighting against those stereotypes should not go to the point of wanting to remain obese. It makes perfect sense to be happy at one's current weight, but if that weight is unhealthy, it'd be best to lose weight. The trouble is finding an effective way to lose it safely, which can be extremely difficult and can require a lot of assistance.

To me it would be like wanting to keep smoking just to prove something to the assholes who think it's easy to quit, or that smokers are somehow lesser human beings. It's fine to have a problem with those assumptions, but one's defensiveness should not extend to embracing extremely unhealthy behavior as a positive thing.

[eridani]

52. Food addiction?

I'll have to confess to being a multiple substance abuser. Not only am I addicted to food, but also to water and oxygen.

[Klukie]

63. I could not agree more.

[w8liftinglady]

21. OK..truth out-I have had gastric bypass surgery-

I did EVERYTHING to lose weight-including Phen-fen and bulimia.I was a masters level powerlifter and worked out daily.I am one of the chosen few who is fat.I lost 117 pounds since my bypass.I regret nothing.The world judges you on your appearance.Anything I said,politically,as a woman,would have no credibility as long as I was morbidly obese.It's true-and you know it.I'm also a nurse,so I knew the long-term risks of remaining obese.I was fortunate.My insurance paid for my surgery.How I got there is a long,complicated road.I blame a lot of it on fast food and my own insecurities.I have a special place in my heart for obese p[atients.I know they are treated differently.

[pitohui]

25. one of my older friends had this also and is very happy

he was in his late 60s and probably wishes he'd done it sooner

no judgment here, we're all doing the best we can w. the cards we are dealt

i suspect fast food has less to do w. it than you think -- we ALL eat fast food

[w8liftinglady]

29. true.

I belonged to OA for a long time.I know there are other issues associated with fat.

[eridani]

32. I hope it continues to be OK--do monitor vitamins, hormones and all that

I met Susan (a correspondent from one of my email lists) just once when she was passing through town. We went out to dinner with another friend from the list. She never mentioned weight loss surgery, and I never even knew she had been fat. She was a medical doctor with a new practice in a remote Alaska village, which she loved. Three months later, she posted this to the list.

My health also SUCKS. I have been in such pain I can barely take a deep breath and for weeks have had to soldier through and just suck it up, but it's been ridiculously hard. I never imagined I would be in this shape, but due to the gastric bypass surgery I had now 5 years ago, my bones are literally dissolving. I have lost 2.5 inches in one year. I can hardly walk, can't lie down, can barely move, walk with a huge limp, have edematous limbs and am short of breath. My muscles have such low levels of calcium they are tetanous -- they contract but will not relax, so when I pick up a grocery bag I can't open my arms afterwards for several minutes.

It's FREAKY weird and was fairly sudden -- about 3.5 months ago it suddenly happened. I am taking iron supplements IV, TONS of calcium and vitamin D -- including vitamin D from the cystic fibrosis foundation which is a special water-soluble version of that fat soluble vitamin so I can absorb it -- and vitamin B-12 as my levels were in the dementia range. Ugh. Scary. I feel a Little better with the massive supplementation but not at all like myself and I'm scared. One thing is that I have had NO pain control, except ibuprofen as I cannot function (or be legal) at work on strong pain meds. I SO WANT some pain relief. I am more miserable than I could ever imagine physically and just don't know how much longer this can go on.

It went on for a couple of more months. She committed suicide because she could no longer stand the pain. She also had heavy debts from med school and paying for the surgery.

Anybody who has done this PLEASE keep tabs on everything. Susan had not a bit of trouble until 5 years after the surgery.

[Beausoir]

45. It is an incredibly brutal surgery and I would never do that to myself.

I love myself...fat and all.

I could never gut myself like a fish just to fit into a pair of skinny jeans.

[AlCzervik]

48. it's not about fitting into skinny jeans especially in the case of the morbidly obese

it's generally a choice of living or dying. I was 235 pound at 5'6 a little over 2 years ago with high blood pressure and bad blood blood sugar and i was only 38, no i didn't have the surgery but i did think about having the lap-band, also decided no on that but i found what did work for me and my numbers are way better, looking better is just a side benefit.

[Beausoir]

67. So...you chose not to have the barbaric surgery. Good for you.

Here's to your heath and self esteem.

[cutlassmama]

71. Wow! I am going to have the surgery. I have no choice as I am

bedridden. My back and knees have literally given out due to my weight, but this doesn't sound good at all. :wtf:

[pitohui]

142. go for it, my friend was 68 when he had it, and he's doing GREAT!

i have heard stories of calcium loss also, but please note in this story the woman worked in a "remote alaska village"

vit. d by mouth is OK but to my mind there is nothing like vit. d through the skin by sunlight to keep bones strong

my friend lives in vegas, and while he does not get tanned or burned, yes, he gets a little sunlight ea. day

this might be worth keeping in mind if you are worried about calcium absorption after your surgery, i honestly believe that a bit of vit. d and sunlight make a HUGE difference in how calcium can be used by your teeth and bones

"ask your doctor" as they say but i think your odds are good if you're aware of the issues involved

i might not want to live in someplace where there is no sun 4 or 6 months out of the year after this surgery but this would be a rare problem, i think?

[eridani]

156. She'd just taken up the post in February

Committed suicide in September. All this happened when there was plenty of sunlight available. Don't ever, ever skip any doctor-recommended test if you do this.

[Beausoir]

43. Congrats on your surgical weight-loss.

I sincerely hope you are able to maintain your health.

[mondo joe]

23. Fat certainly CAN be a statement, but I think that is profoundly rare.

If people had absolute and instant control over their body size I'd generally agree that it's a statement.

[AZBlue]

59. You're not fat are you?

[mondo joe]

65. Not relevant. A statement by definition has to be a choice.

It isn't typically a choice.

[AZBlue]

72. Very relevant to your misunderstanding of the situation.

I grew up with a mother who's heavy (through no true fault of her own - see my earlier post for details if you wish). My dad was overweight because he ate too much (he's since slimmed down). I had two best friends who were overweight. Yet, until I became fat, I didn't truly get it. All my life previously, I saw the lack of understanding, I saw the hatred and the nastiness, I saw the prejudice - but I didn't realize how incredulous or extreme it really all is until it happened to me.

You see, fat people rarely - except in situations like this - open up and really let people know what it's like. Which only adds to the misinformation and disrespect rampant in society. Which makes us keep it to ourself even more. It's cyclical.

So, even though I'd seen it first-hand through others close to me, I was only seeing part of it.

[mondo joe]

73. I don't know what you think I misunderstood.

I simply said that for most people body size isn't a choice - at least not an absolute or immediate one.

Is that incorrect?

I didn't say anything negative about any body size. I don't think anything like that.

[alcibiades_mystery]

99. If you don't celebrate the OP, you misunderstand it

See how that works?

Moreover, your misunderstanding, if you're not fat, can't even be remedied, since the knowledge of what it fat means - socially, politically, medically, etc., is like some gnostic mystery, available only to the fat. So, cheer or shut up, Skinny Man. This ain't a forum for reason. It's a forum for fat celebration, and one of the only one's out there in an oppressive world that you would never understand anyway, fat hater!

:sarcasm:

[porphyrian]

24. My fat is not a statement.

In fact, I'm getting rid of a bunch of it because it's too fucking hot to be fat here.

[mondo joe]

26. I dropped 30 lbs last summer. I can only tell you this: life is a lot more

comfortable without it.

[porphyrian]

28. That's about what I've lost since I started, and I can tell.

And all I've done really is stop being sedentary. I'm still overweight, but I'm probably as strong now as I've ever been. It's kind of cool. Still too fucking hot here, though.

[GeorgeGist]

27. Fat phobic?

The average American is fatphilic.

Hint: Next time you wish not to conform, check the norms first; otherwise you appear quite foolish.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

102. The average American is fatphilic and in denial

eom

[RandomKoolzip]

119. Yup. You nailed it.

Being fat is no longer "rebellious" or a sign of a "devil-may-care" attitude towards life in America; it's just conformity.

[bonito]

30. And I'll say it again

:yourock: :hi:

[Shakespeare]

31. "health nazis?"

:eyes:

[eridani]

36. As a social statement, fat has changed dramatically over the last 100 years or so

It used to say "Pale and plump means that I sit in the shade all day drinking mint juleps, unlike you peasants chopping cotton and digging potatoes in the hot sun all day."

These days lean and tan says "I ski in the winter, play tennis in the summer and can afford a personal trainer. Unlike you slobs who sit or stand around all day in offices and factories."

It's a class thing, folks. Just as fat has totally reversed its social meaning, so has pale vs. tan and white bread vs. whole wheat.

[treestar]

38. Amen! It always tracks the rich

Back when food was much more insecure, people who could afford to eat, the rich, were fatter than the poor, who were scrawny!

The rich didn't have to do physical labor and the poor did.

Now that the average job is sedentary and time for exercise a luxury and food is one thing you'll get even if you are poor, this has mysteriously reversed!

If you needed expensive operations to GET fat, if you got fatter going on vacation, if some food so fattening only the rich could afford it were discovered, you can bet fat would be popular again!

[alcibiades_mystery]

97. There's no doubt that fat is related to class, and historically variable

But the whole notion that fat was considered "beautiful" as recently as 100 years ago is nonsense. In any case, I'd appreciate it if people making historical arguments actually provided something in the way of historical evidence.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

130. You Are Correct But Standards Of Aesthetic Perfection Have Evolved

For Men And Women...

For instance, today's GI Joe looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger circa 1975 where as forty years ago he was much closer to what we would call normal size...

But, yeah, fat was never an aesthetic ideal as recently as one hundred years ago...

[alcibiades_mystery]

132. I said "historically variable"

which I take to contain your point.

That's certainly true. And, of course, these sorts of things are hard to judge historically, since health records for populations are a fairly recent historical development. I think we have to go slowly before lending credence to interpretations from art history and the like, and jumping from a Rubens painting to a general claim about attraction in a given era. It's weak as hell as a historical argument, but I can certainly see why some people feel the need to make such claims...

[eridani]

140. 330 Lb women were probably never considered attractive, however--

--230 lb women definetly were 100 years ago. Lillian Russell weighed 230 lbs and had a BMI of 34.5, and was quite the sex symbol.

http://www.judgmentofparis.com/Lillian1.htm
http://www.ypp.net/fullarticle.asp?ID=405

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

44. I feel guilty because I'm just genetically fat.

I'm fat not to make a statement but simply because I'm fat. I've dieted, have lost weight, but always gain it back.

On edit: I feel guilty NOT because I'm fat but because the whole point of the post sees fatnees as a brave political statement. But I'm not brave becaue I'm fat. I'm fat because I'm overweight, and I'm overweight because everyone in my family is (nature v. nuture arguements aside). I don't even own my fatness the way African-Americans owned their blackness in the 60s. I don't loathe myself, but I'd rather not be fat; it's hard on the feet, you know.

My mom is fat, dad is fat, sister is fat, etc. We're just fat. It's no more an intended political statement than my friend who with his glasses protests universal health care because he's near-sighted.

This is just silly. I don't eat a lot, I don't exercise much (a little), and I'm fat. People make fun, but oh well, we fat people always have the South to ridicule.

Sucks to be fat and in the South. :)

Just admit that my post is brilliant, and you'll feel a lot better.

[bonito]

47. Take this

:hug:

[Klukie]

50. My fat weighs on me.......

constantly. I will not accept the control that my fat has on my life. I am not fat as a result of a medical condition. I am fat as a result of my own actions. For me, fat is not a statement. For me, fat is a huge burden. I refuse to delude myself into thinking that my fat is A-okay. My fat makes me less confident. My fat makes my back ache. My fat makes me have inhibitions in the bedroom. My fat makes me unable to run with my children. My fat makes me not enjoy eating. My fat makes me unable to be myself. I don't like my fat.

[bicentennial_baby]

53. ...

:hug: I hope you can find a way through this issue...In fact, I know that you can. :hug:

[Klukie]

91. Hey thanks...

I'm working on it.

[mondo joe]

113. Good luck Klukie.

I found weight loss was its own vicious cycle - a good one. The more I lost the better I felt, the better I felt the more I lost.

Best to you.

[Klukie]

114. Thanks Mondo Joe

I have lost 20lbs so far with many positive effects.

[spacelady]

85. It is very sad when one is overweight by current standards that

they must also dislike themselves, being overweight can be a long-term condition & it is a shame to feel less than normal or like a freak because a large chunk of your life is diminished by these negative feelings.

[Klukie]

92. It may be sad for you

but it is my truth and I am facing it head on instead of wallowing in it. A shame.....yes it is a shame to have negative feelings but the weight is the reason for those negative feelings.

[spacelady]

93. The negative feelings and disliking oneself I am afraid makes

the issue a vicious cycle for many. The stress of this negative self image may trigger feelings of hopelessness. This can make it next to impossible to stick with with a weight loss plan simply because of the time it takes to lose weight efffectively. A simple way to put it (from my own feelings) "I will only be happy if I'm thin." Or "If only I were skinny, then I would be happy."

It is when the overweight person equates thinness with happiness instead of being happy enough with oneself while losing weight.

Money cannot buy happiness.
You can never be too rich or too thin.

Which do you agree with more?

[Klukie]

106. You are correct..

that the negative feelings can create a vicious cycle. This can be true of many issues. I am not naive enough to believe that happiness derives from thinness, yet I am not unaware that this particular situation that I created makes me unhappy. I am simply being honest. I truly believe that to overcome any negative in my life I have to face it honestly. The negative feelings (for me) are a side effect of the weight. I realize that for some that this may be the other way around. I know who I am. It took me twenty some years to figure that out and I'll be darned if I will let this issue sidetrack me from living to my fullest. Don't get me wrong, I am not sitting here miserable and inactive. I live my life. As I said in my original post, This is a weight and I refuse to let it become too heavy.

[AZBlue]

61. Thank you for this post!

I am fat and I was fearful of opening it to begin with - I was afraid it was yet another "fat people are disgusting" thread here on DU. Instead, it's an insight into some overweight peoples' reasons and issues. Being fat is a complicated issue that varies from person to person - but it desperately needs understanding and education among the non-fat people among us (as you can see from a few snarky posts even in this thread).

Thanks again!! K&R

[troubleinwinter]

87. I thank you

I just never happened to be "overweight", "heavy", or any of the other stupid words. My mother was. She ate half of what I ate and was energetically active, and I am lazy. She tried so hard to fucking "diet" all my life. She ate ten times more healthy than I do. She was the best person on the face of this planet. Why does anybody give a shit about the physical shape of someone?

Someone once made a comment about "the content of one's character".

When you use the word "fat", it both hurts me and frees me. I grew up partly in Polynesia where 'fat' is lovely admired rich comely beauty, but also here, where it is not.

I never had the issue myself, but I hate HATE that my mother had to bother with such pointless shit.... because she had content of character, which truly mattered.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

66. Ummmm

"Fat is a statement. My fat says of me that "I am here"; "I need and I want space"; "I need to feel sheltered and protected"; "I need to feel safe"; and I want you to see me while I hide."

Huh?

That's one of the weirdest statements I've ever read.

Granted, people shouldn't judge others by their weight and there's too much stigma in our society towards those who are obese or whatever, but that statement is still a bit over the top, no?

[alcibiades_mystery]

96. Holy fucking shit, OMC

You and I actually agree on something....

[spoony]

128. Yeah really

I've never realised the belly I'm carrying around is actually a philosophical billboard. If it is I'm repainting mine, because "I want you to see me while I hide" is bloody dumb.

Hope all is going well at home, OMC, glad to see your posts again.

[Beerboy]

70. I don't think fat is necessarily some kind of "statement",

it's just a fact and a condition peculiar to the organism having that particular description, for the most part. Me? Yeah, I'm fat, but I'm not really trying to tie that in with any kind of political statement, if any. It just is what it is.

[Beausoir]

76. It is what it is.

Could not agree more.

[madeline_con]

89. What ever happened to overeating?

What's with all the psycobabble about the WHY? People get fat from eating, barring less common medical reasons.

[alcibiades_mystery]

98. No, it's the genes

Anything to reduce agency or cultural critique. Born that way, you see? Can't be helped, really...

:sarcasm:

[spoony]

129. My fat is a statement...that I enjoy pizza.

:D

[DemocratSinceBirth]

131. My fat is a statement...that I enjoy pizza and ice cream by the pie and gallon

-:)

[eridani]

147. They get fat from having enough to eat in a sedentary society

Where does anybody get off telling them that they ought to spend all their spare time trying to be third world peasants doing hard physical labor on short rations?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

101. This Thread Is Making Me Hungry

It's 4 in the morning...

I'm going back to bed...

[H2O Man]

103. "Fat" can be a phase

in one's life. I used to be a muscular, athletic person. I was in a serious auto accident, the victim of a driver distracted by his use of a cell phone. I am now, in the words of his insurance companies' doctor, "disabled."

In the years since the surgeries and PT to repair the old back, and as a result of reduced physical activity, I have gained weight. Two of my friends, who used to be on the same amateur boxing team as I was, tend to make degrading remarks about "fat people" around me. I also have an aunt and a cousin who are quick to insult overweight folks.

I wish I could say that their comments do not bother me, but they surely do.

[eridani]

148. Other people have had the same outcome from necessary medication

--or even just from the genes for insulin resistance kicking in.

[JitterbugPerfume]

111. that is such a crock of sh##

I do not even know where to begin

[cgrindley]

115. yeah... it says, "I'm in bad shape."

come on, America. Lose that excess weight.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

127. It's Difficult

FREE THE JENA SIX

[Hoof Hearted]

116. My fat is a statement of genetics and a schedule that is killing me.

I have:
Three cats
Two kids
A husband
A crappy job

I:
Go to school full time
Am taking additional vocational classes
Care for my elderly mother daily
Am currently in the process of DIY remodeling

[eridani]

136. Yet plenty of posters are slamming you for choosing to have a life

For a health nazi, vocational improvement must always take a back seat to being on a treadmill and staying hungry all the time while doing it.

[AnnieBW]

117. Thank you!!!

I'm sick of all of the fat prejudice on DU. No, I do NOT sit around eating bon-bons all day. In fact, I probably as much as most people do. I am the first one to admit that I need to exercise more. But the parody of all fat people as Homer Simpson is demeaning.

[RandomKoolzip]

118. No. Wrong.

(buzzer sounds)

Nope. Not gonna let you do this to yourself. Listen:

FWIW, I lost 80 pounds in the last year through diet, rigorous exercise, and a burning desire to be healthy. I began 2006 as a miserable 260 lb. loser and I am now 180 lbs. and much, much more at peace with myself.

"Fat" is not a statement. BEING fat IS a statement - the statement is "I don't give a fuck about being healthy or living a long and productive life; I just wanna indulge in some short term pleasure to dull the pain of being alive." I know, because I've BEEN THERE. in 1995, I weighed 310 pounds, okay? I KNOW what it's like to be fat: I couldn't get laid, I left nasty sweat on every piece of furniture I sat on, nobody took me seriously (ahem), I was tired and self-pitying all the time, I couldn't wear clothes I thought looked cool, I had trouble breathing, yadda yadda yadda. But you know what? I STILL ate like a fucking pig because I hated myself and I had a painful childhood. I was one sad motherfucker, but if I was able to scarf down some Chicken McNuggets alone, in my apartment, listening to the music i liked, with a good book....for those twenty minutes or so, yes, I felt a little better.

Escapism is NOT a way of life. Overeating will KILL your ass (just ask Wesley Willis).

In the past I struggled with bulimia. I puked after every meal for three or so years. I lost weight, but my teeth rotted and I began having mental problems. I did it because of social pressure - all my friends were good-looking guys and gals, and i wanted to be part of their "team." THIS IS THE WRONG REASON TO LOSE WEIGHT.

You had a bad childhood? BFD. So did 98% of us. I'd rather be eaten by a fucking shark than re-live my childhood. But what was I doing overeating as an adult? Merely making life worse in the long run, and ruining my chances of ever being happy as an oldster - because i was ruining my chances of ever even attaining oldsterhood.

Ever heard the phrase "Living well is the best revenge?" I swear to GAWD above, anyone who ever tormented you as a kid reading this bizarre shit you post on DU would be perfectly at ease with themselves, knowing that they fucked up your life and you're just completing the cycle. You know what'd make them really unhappy? You, living a well-adjusted and productive adult life. The only way to break out of this self-destructive cycle is to SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP first, then cut back on what you eat (portions, then slowly phase out fatty, salty, sugary shit), then begin slowly integrating exercise into your life. You won't see any results for the first three months or so, BUT IF YOU JUST KEEP DOING IT AND DON'T GET LAZY AND DISCOURAGED, then you will begin to lose the weight. I won't kid you: this is hard work. VERY hard work. There will be real physical pain involved. But if you want to be happy in the long term (and not just pathetically, thumb-suckingly, narcissistically "happy" (note the quotes)) in the short term, then you'll take my advice.

Nothing worth attaining comes without a price, UP.

Look, i realize life sucks. I struggle with depression 80% of my waking hours. My marriage is a shambles, i hate my job, etc. Being skinnier has not improved everything across the board. But there is a peace of mind I have now that i never had before, and i SWEAR my brain operates at a much higher level than ever before. I wouldn't trade it for all the gold in the world (I'd trade Bush getting impeached for it, but that's another story.)

In the meantime, I suggest you get out of the house, see a doctor, and start taking steps toward leading a healthier life. And like mondo joe says above: I found weight loss was its own vicious cycle - a good one. The more I lost the better I felt, the better I felt the more I lost.

[bicentennial_baby]

120. Wow...

:hug:

and :applause:

[RandomKoolzip]

122. Thanks.

(I hope I wasn't too 'tough love' on the OP's ass)

[bicentennial_baby]

123. I think it's important to speak your own truth...

Regardless. Brave, you are...And now I admire you even more than before. :)

:hug:

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

134. That's my boy

Koolzip rocks to the fully

[bicentennial_baby]

145. Damn right he does...

:headbang:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

124. I Applaud You

A food addiction is the hardest addiction to break because unlike other addictions you can't stop cold turkey...You have to eat to live...

I have had weight issues my entire life but it's important to try to control your weight...

[Shakespeare]

126. Excellent post.

Everything you said is spot-on.

I'm tired of getting jumped on around here for suggesting that lifestyle choices ultimately do determine whether someone ends up obese, which is just rich considering I'm one of those folks who really does have a nasty metabolic disorder that fucks with my life. And I manage not to obese in spite of that (although it's really hard work).

:thumbsup:

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

133. I've known him since grade school and I can testify for RKZ - listen to the man

KZip - I really admire you man and rest assured my depressed 3 chili dog days ended the day you got on a plane back to Chi. You need to know you that are one of my all time heroes and (as a kid from broken homes 3 times over) - you are my brother - know that. I'd make it legal if we could afford the lawyers.

[RandomKoolzip]

135. No shit?

Fuck it...we're goin' to vegas 2-nite, buckaroo! Orphans away!

:hug:

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

144. No quarter!

Heeyah!

Remenmber - you are the backbone of the Tranqs - Paul and I will and have testified!

[eridani]

137. Are you more physically capable than Cheryl Haworth?

If I had the choice between living in your skin and living in hers, I'd pick her any day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheryl_Haworth

Haworth's appeal, however, extends beyond the sport of weightlifting. A versatile athlete, she can run forty yards in 5.5 seconds, jump 30-inch vertical leaps, and perform front, back, and sideway splits. She is also a talented artist. She graduated from the Savannah Arts Academy in 2001 and studies historic preservation at the Savannah College of Art and Design. Much like legendary Georgia strongman Paul Anderson, with whom she is sometimes compared, Haworth has been an innovator. She seems destined to serve as an enduring role model for women in sports.

[RandomKoolzip]

139. What a bizarre hypothesis.

Why don't you be happy in your own skin?

Anyway, I don't know what the hell this has to do with my post, but it seems somewhat antagonistic in tone. Maybe it ain't. In any case, have a good life.

[eridani]

141. Just pointing out that being fat doesn't preclude being in excellent physical--

--and MENTAL health. Not all fat people are in such good shape, but neither is average weight a marker for good health of both sorts. Cheryl has chosen the opposite of shame, hiding out, and yo-yo dieting her way up to 400 or 500 lbs.

[RandomKoolzip]

143. No, but chronic overeating and nigh-ironically embracing the sedentary life

as a default ambition usually precludes - and in fact is a damn good barometer of - poor mental and physical health.

[eridani]

146. Those things don't make you fat unless you are genetically prone to gain weight

It's only average BMI that has even changed over the past 50 years. The mode (the only true proper measure of a skewed distribution) remains at about 25.

One person posting in this thread stated that her fat reflects genetics plus the time crunch of working at a crappy job, raising two kids and going to vocational school. I'd call that choosing to have a life instead of embracing being sedentary.

[RandomKoolzip]

149. I work full-time and go to school full-time.

Plus, I play in a band that gigs regularly, I write record reviews, and I'm married. Even Sheena Easton knows a person can put in 30 minutes a day at the track or the weights without TOO much of a time crunch. I'm genetically pre-disposed to being "chesty-" my mom was a busty gal, and my body type is quite endomorphic even at its lightest. I'm a food addict. But I don't let that shit stop me from working out. Fuck diabetes, fuck heart disease - I will NOT let either of those, or ANY fat-related disease take my life.

In any case, none of that has anything to do with my post or even the OP, which was - disturbingly - a peaen to giving up on actively living life.

[eridani]

150. 30 minutes isn't anywhere near enough for a really fat person--

--to get anywhere near average weight. It's enough to make you healthier and possibly weigh somewhat less--that's all.

Diabetes and heart disease are related in exactly the opposite sense that you think they are. "Syndrome X" causes both, and also weight gain during adulthood.

[Dark]

121. I won't belittle you for being fat if you don't belittle me for being a smoker.

I won't ask you to pay more for healthcare because you're fat if you don't ask me to pay more for being a smoker.

Both are choices, and both are hard to stop.

[MindPilot]

153. This thread got me to thinking...

I'm one of those people you hate...I eat what I want, how much I want, have no kind of work out program, and my weight stays right where it should be for my height.

That said, I realize after thinking about it, overweight people--especially women--are "invisible" to me or if they are not, it's the fat I notice. The observation that fat can make someone feel safe seems valid. The other thing I notice is my circle of friends are mostly like me; some are a little heavy, but none are what I would call fat. I guess I still have some deeply ingrained prejudices.

Thanks to all who posted and made me think about shit I never thought about.

[The Stranger]

154. Food addiction.

That the substance abuser may feel victimized is not suprising -- it is part of the addictive process.

[eridani]

155. If there is such a thing as food "addiction"

--then I'm a multiple substance abuser. Not only am I addicted to food, but also to water and oxygen. Just can't help myself.